DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Attack of the Normies! | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• Social media profiles attributed to Cole Tomas Allen, the 31-year-old Californian charged with attempting to assassinate President Trump over the weekend, are not radical. He’s centrist, moderate liberal. The same could be said of Luigi Mangione, accused of murdering the CEO of United Healthcare. Are we becoming radicalized—or are average people resorting to radicalized tactics?• FCC Chairman Brendan Carr is reconsidering the broadcasting licenses of Disney’s 8 TV stations for “early renewal” years ahead of their due dates — suggesting the action was spurred by Disney’s DEI policies. The announcement comes one day after Trump and first lady Melania demanded that Disney-owned ABC fire late-night host Jimmy Kimmel over a joke about them.• The world is threatened by a “suicidal” model of capitalism that is leading to war and the potential extinction of humanity, Colombian President Gustavo Petro says, as he convened 57 governments to address the climate crisis. “There is inertia in the power and the economy of this archaic form of energy – fossil fuels – that lead to death. Undoubtedly, that form of capital can commit suicide, taking with it humanity and [other] life,” he said. “The question that needs to be asked is whether capitalism can truly adapt to a non-fossil energy model.” The former economist said the world was in a perilous position: “We are heading towards barbarism. And barbarism is the prelude to, or the very essence of, fascism.”MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.livehttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Good morning you are watching the program with Ted Roll and Jamarle Thomas. It's Wednesday, April 29th, 2026. Good morning, J.T. How are you? I'm done okay. What's going on, man? I thought you were muted for a second. Not much, not much. I'm not a little sad because I already renewed my passport last year, which means I may not be eligible for the new Trump passport that comes out.

Have you heard about this? There's a Trump passport. I don't want a Trump passport. Can you imagine? Like, I don't want to walk around with a Trump sticker on it, like Made in America's insane crazy. Oh, it's worse than a Trump sticker. It's literally a passport that has Trump's face, like, embossed on it.

And it has, like, a little, like, it's super maga. It's for anybody who applies for a passport in the Washington, D.C. Metrera, that's you in or around July 4th to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the United States of America, and that they will get a special Trump

passport. Can you imagine, like, ladies and gentlemen, we have now arrived in Riyadh International Airport. Please have your passports ready. It'd be like, oh shit. I don't want that passport. I don't want that passport.

I might just like I might just sort of like if my passport was expiring, I might be like, you know, I'm going to cruise right through and wait till like next year. And maybe I don't need to go anywhere this year. Not to mention maybe I can't go anywhere this year anyway because there won't be any jet fuel. There's that, which is what it sounds like it's going to be considering what Trump is deciding to do. I don't want to step on the stories, but I don't know if you started reporting out of Reuters. Go ahead. That it is, the way it reads is fascinating. in itself. Because, you know, you've worked at radio station. And you saw how, like, when you're

covering rural news, you get to see how individual countries talk about what their leadership is doing in the country, because all news is effectively a political weapon. There's no such things neutrality in the news. Right. Royders is reporting here in this weird way. So they're saying the Trump administration was looking at two options, one to escalate or to leave, to effectively declare victory and walk. We won, but accomplished objectives we are. But the reporting makes it very clear that from the Trump administration's point of view, that declaration of victory doesn't stop Iran from saying we obviously won. And the White House acknowledges on some level that Iran is right in that because the White House is looking at fall down consequences. Meaning it's one thing to say,

hey, we won, we're out. It's another thing to have realities on the ground. And those realities on the ground is, A, we have to straight it from us. B, we kept the superpower from destroying us, meaning we had political consistency to be able to maintain ourselves against the superpower. And C, it emboldens us, meaning groups and all of these other things in Iraq, this is the way the U.S. is looking at it. And my point is, the fact that the U.S. is looking at it in no terms gets across that the U.S. loss. Meaning regardless of Trump lying to the American public, he knows 3 a.m. between him and his God that he failed. And they can't. deal with it, in which case they say, okay, we can't do that either. And so their thing is,

let's extend the blockade. So we are going to have the blockade indefinitely. Now, take it with a grain of salt. Trump can turn around tomorrow and attack. But for all intents and purposes, the reporting that's coming out is that the Trump administration doesn't like the option of escalation because hashtag they tried that and doesn't like the option of walking away. And so they're going with the third option, option 2.5, I think you called it, continue the blockade indefinitely. That's amazing. So yeah, there may be no jet fuel. They may be no fertile acid. Like, maybe none of these things, right? No, I mean, like, yeah, you could, or Americans could easily fly to Europe, let's say, but they might not be able to get back because there's no jet fuel to get

back. Yeah, no, look, I agree with you. I mean, obviously, the facts on the ground are undeniable. I mean, declaring victory in walking away is not tenable when there are repercussions that hit your own country. And, you know, the fact is the Strait of Ormuse remains under blockade. And, of course, you know, the fact that, I mean, Trump's blockade is only making that blockade worse, right? He's only making the consequences for the United States worse. So, you know, what's going to happen this summer? I just got gas yesterday. It was $419 a gallon. It's like, you know, before all this started six weeks ago, my local same gas station was $279. That's a big percentage increase. It's going to keep going up.

And so what's going to happen by, like, July, peak travel season in the United States? All Americans are on the road. Can you imagine filling up an RV? That's terrifying or just or even a Ford F150. I mean, I see people like go and get $150, $200 worth of gas. This was before. Right? Now it's going to be $250, $300, $400. So those consequences are just undeniable. The stock market's going to finally wake up and realize that what happens in Asia affects us because we buy all of our shit from Asia. So it's, you know, I mean, the global markets are going to tank. The IMF already sees this coming.

Yeah, there's no denying it. It's just like you can, you just can't. This isn't like, hey, look, we liberated Afghan women. We're out. Bye. you know, that's not true, but nobody's around to see it. This is like right here. Yes, it's affecting all of us.

And, you know, God, man, I'm glad you mentioned that. I forgot who it was talking. I think it was garlic. The other day, why haven't we seen this pricing into the market? Because, you know, in the normal circumstances, when these guys are like speculators are looking at this stuff, they're like, okay, this is coming. And oftentimes, they were pricing it to the market before you can hit.

And my thing was like, why haven't they priced this in? It's a good question. Well, I saw a financial guy yesterday who broke this down and basically pointed out that Trump has no credibility. And so from the speculators point of view, Trump always chickens out. And so the thought is Trump will walk. This gets so bad Trump walks. And he pointed out, he was like, that's not the same thing. Like, meaning it's one thing for Trump to say, I'm putting on a tariff.

I'm putting on a sanction. Trump could always say, I'm removing the sanction. I'm giving a sanction way before the order come through. I'm putting sanctions back on. I'm removing the tariff. I'm putting the tariff back on. That's easy. That's a legal fig leaf.

This is a war. And the reality of it is, you've involved yourself in something that you can't really extricate yourself from in an easy way in a way that you can turn on and turn off a tariff. You're stuck. And because you're stuck, the question becomes, what does the president do?

Well, now at this point, the president said, I'm going to blockade indefinitely. So the market has to start pricing that stuff in because it's becoming clear at this point that this isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. I mean, Trump can change is my tomorrow, and maybe they think that, but I don't think that's the way it works. I think you're dealing with things beyond the market. I think you're dealing with psychology. You're talking about a president who, under normal circumstances, presidents are

loathe to look bad. But this guy, this one, even worse. Yeah, I mean, I think what Trump's, I mean, look, you're right. I mean, look, what Trump said and what says and does at this point does not matter. Let's be clear here. If Cole Allen had suggested, you know, had he succeeded in putting a hole between Donald Trump's eyes, the market is still headed the direction that it's heading. Even if J.D. Vance calls up the Ayatollah and says, I am so sorry. We are bad. We apologize. We want to be friends. We surrender. We're going to become a Shia Islamic country. We love you. All that stuff, right? Even if that, you know, we're going to, we, you can come and occupy us. It doesn't matter. None of it matters because what's already happened is that it's, you know, the, the effect is already going to be with us for at least six to 12 months, right?

I mean, the fact is oil supplies are now down. It's a slow moving train, right? I mean, these tankers that just got through the straight of our moves before all this started, they're still, you know, unloading. And that oil is being slowly refined and it's entering the marketplace. This is a matter of months. And so, you know, many months. So we're not really going to start to feel the pain.

I mean, they're feeling the pain in countries where they don't have a lot of advanced supplies. They don't have reserves, places like Vietnam and, you know, Myanmar, Singapore. But they're going to start feeling it in places that do have reserves because reserves run out. Reserves are not. So, yeah, it doesn't matter. And Trump is irrelevant here, amazingly. At this point, yeah. Meaning, it's coming.

Either way, winter's coming. Winter is coming. No question. All right. So, so let's talk. So today we're going to talk about the summit, the climate summit being held in Columbia, being housed hosted by outgoing President Gustavo Petro, who basically is warning the world that unless the world gets, gets.

rid of its dependence on fossil fuels, that we will be heading towards barbarism, a collapse of capitalism, and or fascism. You know, lots to talk about there. The FCC seems to be retaliating against ABC by, and basically because of Jimmy Kimmel's joke about Melania, possibly having a- Wait, what was the joke about Melania? So Jimmy Kimmel a couple days ago said, oh, she has the glow. of an expectant widow.

And so this was following the assassination attempt at the White House correspondence dinner. And I guess there's some doubt about when this joke was written, when it was recorded. He says this was all sort of conceptualized before Saturday's events and that the timing was unfortunate. But whatever, so we know that, you know, the president said drew a bead on Jimmy Kimmel, you know, a year ago or so. Disney owns ABC. So basically Disney owned eight stations

that are all going to have their broadcast licenses. They weren't due for review, but now they will be reviewed. So this is obviously an effort to chill ABC and encourage them to maybe fire Jimmy Kimmel. And then last but not least, our main story, Cole Allen, the suspect in the White House Correspondence Dinner shooting,

there's a big profile of him in the New York Times. And basically I heard similar things on NPR elsewhere that politically, he's not really wild and crazy. I mean, you know, you and I remember basically came of age in a time when a political violence came out of the mostly the far right, but also that of the far left to a secondary extent. You know, you think about the Red Brigades in the 1970s kidnapping, you know, John Paul Getty, the Third and stuff like that. you know, basically Cole Allen be a Democrat. He donated 25 bucks to Kamala. You know, it's hard to see that he's even as far left as, say, a Bernie Sanders. So, you know, and Luigi Mangione also wasn't very radical politically. So I guess the question is now, you know, what does it mean when someone has relatively centrist, moderate, mainstream,

corporateist, maybe not corporatist, but mainstream politics and resorts to radical actions, I have thoughts about that. But basically, that's the rundown, and we can start where, anywhere you want. I would start with Cole Allen. But what do you want? Let's start with Cole Island. Because that's an interesting question.

I mean, like I said, when I read the manifest, though, I thought to myself, this was rational. Uh-huh. Like, what do you, like, like, I agree. I did not disagree. You know, here's the thing.

The only words I could have taken issues with is, you know, Trump, he didn't want to be associated with Trump. The words Trump were implied here that he was a traitor, a pedophile, and a rapist. I mean, to be clear, I'm not, you know, I'm far from convinced that Donald Trump was a pedophile. Just to be far, I'm far from convinced of that. Like, I don't think it's true. I think he's a pedophile enabler. I think, you know, in terms of him being a rapist, I mean, he's grabby.

I don't know. I don't think there's hard evidence that he's a rapist. that could come out. And in terms of being a traitor, he's a grifter. He's an emoluments fucker. He's definitely betraying his base, but I don't know that he's selling out our national security to foreign to foreign agents and working for an enemy nation. I don't think that's true. But anyway, the point is the rest of it. I all, you know, I agreed with every single word that Cole Allen wrote. I don't have an issue with them calling Trump a pedophile if I'm being bluntly honest with you. If you're enabling a pedophile or if you are actively doing it to me, those things,

same difference, if you want to say in that case. They are throwing their bodies out to protect the list of people who have been raping children. Put it in context, right? That's true. And Trump has been doing any and everything in its power to prevent that information from effectively coming out, in addition to many of the other Republicans that are in Congress. So if he wants to say pedophile enabler or pedophile,

fair no, I'll take your point. As a point to traitor, yes. Full stop. We can fight on that. Well, go. Make your case. On that one. Because look, man, what is in the interest of America? And, you know, we make this, I often make this argument that what takes place

in the context of Israel is not, is U.S. policy. But truth of the matter is, there is a feedback mechanism where there is some level of influence in regards to our country. When Trump gave that notion of why he was attacking Iran, Israel was first and foremost in his rationale for it. So you're attacking another country that is not enough of that interest for foreign power. Not to mention Miram Aedelson, giving him $100 million. What are you doing for that money? Policy after policy after policy went in line with not Americans' first interests, whether it's First Amendment

or otherwise. It went with Israel's interests. So we're going to shut up Americans. By the way, Joe Biden was doing this to a lesser degree when he was beating up protesters at universities and colleges. When Donald Trump is saying, we don't like you talking about Israel, so we're not letting you into the country, have he first amendment right to do that? Like, I'm making the point of saying, if you are taking policy that is explicitly not in the interest of America, and you're doing it at the heads seemingly of the foreign power because you were paid, meaning they have influence because they have their books in you, that is against my interest as an American. And yeah, I would go so far as this as a traitor.

Even this notion of trying to overthrow the government. I think that's traitors. I mean, treasonous, if not traitorous. I mean, look, I don't disagree with the word you said. He absolutely is in bed with foreign interests, and particularly Israel. These are against American interests. I mean, you know, I guess I'm being maybe pedantic. I'm kind of stuck on the sort of constitutional definition of trade.

And, you know, I mean, treason has a very specific, very limited meaning, right? But if you basically mean, like, sucking foreign cock at the expense of your own people, yeah, Donald Trump's guilty. You know, guilty is sin. And, you know, and certainly, Cole Allen's not required to have a legalistic definition of the word. Exactly. Trader, you can use the, you know, the Miriam Webster definition, and that's totally fine. That's sort of like when people say, oh, it's not censorship unless the government's doing it. well, that's legalistic under the First Amendment, but that's not true.

Censorship is just like editing is a form of censorship. So that's according to the dictionary. All right, point taking. I have a tendency to get stuck on. No, no, no, no, you're perfectly right. No, you're right. You can easily say, hey, man, this is the definition of source. So fair enough, I accept that, accept that.

I guess it's interesting because I read the document and it's one of those things where it's like, okay, you can communicate a problem. And it's like, okay, well, what do you do with the problem? problem. You know, it's like, okay, I need to, there's a bug in my house. I know I need to blow my house up. Okay, the bugging house is identification of a problem. I don't need to blow the house up, right? Right. Right. Well, that is the question, right? So, look, I mean, let's get, let's get serious here. I think most many Americans, tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of Americans, but I would say at at least a third, maybe half, maybe more, understand that Donald Trump represents a significant

problem, right? And Trumpism represents a problem. The things have gone too far in certain ways. And so that there should be remedies. But the fact is, there are everywhere you look, and he said this in his manifesto, and he's not wrong. Cole Allen looks around as like, well, who the fuck's going to do it? Who's going to take out the trash, right? Like, I'm 30, he's like, I'm 31 years old. I see no sign of this happening anytime soon. And he's not wrong. Right. I mean, you would want, this should be remedied at the polls. But the fact is the Democratic Party, even now, seems completely unwilling to even consider allowing the nomination of a person who might have a chance of defeating a Republican like Donald Trump. Right.

Like, they just don't want to do that. They want to have a corporatist whose policies wouldn't be that different from Trump's. Just their attitude and their style would be a little better. The messaging would be the manner, right? So then it's like, okay, the 25th Amendment, we know J.D. Vance isn't going to, isn't going to invoke it, although he should. It was written for expressly this kind of situation. You know that Congress isn't going to impeach the president because Congress isn't Democratic. And even if Congress were Democratic, we're going to get to two-thirds conviction in the Senate for removal. You're not going to. You're just not going to. So who's going to take care of it? And, you know, when you realize you're looking around helplessly. I mean, there's something kind of ridiculous about a nation of 330 million people that can't do something as simple as removing a shitty president. And so that's when a would-be assassin's mind starts to think, maybe one man can take care of this. To be clear, I don't think

that's a good idea, and I don't recommend it, but it's very understandable. And so that's why you take a guy like this who doesn't appear to be mentally ill. It's very very good. very well educated, by all accounts, a very kind and humane person, a popular teacher, you know, articulate, funny, seems like a great, seems like a great guy. And he's not a fucking nut, and he does something that in the past we would have said puts him in the nut box. That's fucking interesting as shit. And I mean, I think Luigi is a little quirkier, but still more on the normie side. But it's, is it a rational act?

It might be an interesting. Like, many, is it a rational act? Like, look, just to cover myself on this, I'm not saying somebody should go and shoot the press on. No. Just to be very clear. I don't want, you know, you to smash your shit out there. Yes, nobody should ever engage in political violence. I wouldn't go that far.

Except I would get through a revolution. Right. Right, right. Right. I agree with you. It's interesting as shit. Like, I found myself, when they threw a shoe at George Bush, I remember thinking to myself, what the fuck? What you thought a shoe up I'm president for it?

As much as I hated George Bush, I still thought, hey, that's outrageous. That's a president, right? Right. Like, meaning, it was so ingrained in me that my initial reaction was just to recoil at it, despite the fact that George Bush was all. About Reagan in 81, yeah. Right, that I thought should be hung by the throat in front of the population. So that shit wouldn't happen.

again. When they tried to take the bullet, when they tried to shoot Trump the first time, I thought, oh, that's outrageous. What do you do it? And after this, my thought was, oh, well, okay. I didn't care. There was nothing in me that care. Yeah, I don't know that I, I might jury nullify him, you know, if I was on colds. Same here. I would be like, well, I have no evidence that this guy did it. or for at least he was obviously not there he was somewhere else

he was arrested on the spot they took off his shirt yeah I know but it's so that that need really that we've gotten to this point as a population whereas the president

used to have a certain amount of prestige in that office and such prestige that this would be unthinkable for people to be okay with this was it RFK who said those who make

peaceful change impossible, you know, make violent change inevitable or something like that? That wasn't an advocate. That was like, um, it was like a founding father or something. But the point is it's an obvious, it's an obvious consideration, right? I mean, if you, if you don't create, if you don't allow, if you put, if you create a pressure cooker, right, if you put people in an untenable situation, they're going to freak, some of them are going to freak out. I mean, the system has become all encompassing. They control the media to, a factor that's never been controlled before.

I mean, you know, I look at myself, right, at the space that used to be in mainstream media for people like me that's gone evaporated. There's, you know, there's no way I can have an op-ed in the New York Times anymore. I mean, and yes, yet I used to be in there all the time. There's all sorts of other examples of that. You know, what the Democratic Party did to Bernie Sanders.

We can't allow that. The way that they're trying to, they tried to jack up Zoron, on Mammani, and they still are trying to figure out some way to get rid of him. No, truth is, he's kind of a moderate, dude. You know, I mean, I guess you're going to radical, the irony here is that if this level of control is what's radicalizing the population, it's the very thing that the elites don't want, they're creating. Let's see, I would argue it's not radical.

I mean, a lot of the stuff depends on the lens that you're looking at it, right? If I'm looking at it through a lens of self-preservation, then I don't do that. Because, A, I don't think it's going to work. B, I think I'm going to get killed or shot. It's not going to change anything. Hell, they may even use me to further their own agenda. If I look at it through the lens of morality, well, that's different, right? I mean, put it in context.

Within the context of this administration and, hell, you could have did this during your wife's administration. If I am somebody who is morally inclined, there's some people who set themselves on fire, right? Like the guy from was protesting Gaza, who went out near D.C. and basically, you know, self-immolation. There's that, which is also a statement, but that statement is internal.

It's like, I'm doing this to myself in order to make a statement. But the rub is nobody's going to really care. Within a couple of days, they're going to sweep your ashes and they're going to move on. That sucks to say. But it's true. I don't even remember the guy's name. From a standpoint of a moral actor who says, this government has gone off the rails.

You're murdering people in Venezuela. You're murdering people in Iran. You're murdering people in Gaza. You've just blown up a bunch of schoolgirls. And in the context of Gaza, that's a genocide. What do you do with that as a moral person? It's that. Meaning the moment that that's your headspace is the act,

rational through that context. Right. It's the question of like, you know, as a New Yorker, when I would go to work every day and commute and step over the homeless people in the subway. I mean, that's what everybody did. So therefore it was normal. But was it rational and sane and moral? No.

I mean, as a human being, we need to help each other. We have to. We're called upon by every ethical. and religious guideline in our society to do that, but we don't. So, I mean, we are literally an insane society. So, I mean, the question is, is someone like Cole Allen? I mean, is he the normal one? Are we all fucking insane? Yeah, that's my point. It's the lens that you look at it through. Most people look at it through the lens of self-preservation with competing interests of, I don't like this. I'm going to try to do this in the context of people with myself saying,

and secure. But the moment that you say something needs to change and nobody is going to do anything. I think the problem with the logic is that you doing that doesn't change anything because the issue is not front. The same argument could be made for Joe Biden. Easy. Easy. Right. You could say, okay, well, Joe Biden wasn't murdering Venezuelan fisherman. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, but he was blowing up, you know, people with drone. Yeah, exactly. We have a bunch of questions. we should probably get to here. Let's see. Okay, Flandrina, did we see the DropSight News latest update on Canary Mission?

They exposed the identities of five of the highest paid contributors and how their connections to the Wexner Fund, government officials, etc. No, but Robbie, can we reach out to whoever at DropSite did this article and see if I'll come on? Yeah, I'll reach out. All right, thank you. And Canary Mission is the doxing outfit, the Zionist doxing outfit. Andre, what do you mean, Jamarral, Trump is God, L.O.L. What?

I don't know what that means. Trump is God. God Emperor Trump. No, if so, no, I say three in between Trump and his God. That's what I said. I think that's what I say. Thanks to Jibari Media for the $10 donation. Did you see the BPD podcast episode with John Kiriaku?

Bet David grilled him because Bet David called him a Zionist. I felt for John because he needed to get a pardon. I felt like he would have given an argument. Wait, wait, explain that one time? So, John, wait, they called John Zionist? Bet David called, grilled him. I fell for John Cassini. I don't know.

I don't really get it. First of all, I didn't see it. I bet it's more like John called, bet David is that? I don't know. I don't know. Sorry. Jabari, if you can like clarify,

we'll add that up. Thanks for the $2 from count zero. Sorry, the two pounds. The IMF, the lagging indicator. Jack Samuels. Thoughts on King, oh, thanks for the donation. four bucks.

Thoughts on King Charles's speech to Congress. It's remarkable to see him teach our Congress, civics, and American morals to stand up against tyranny. I have problems with the fact that we even have the king of England, like that we even have diplomatic relations with England, is weird to me, considering we had a revolution against these people. Why are they, I don't know, it's weird as shit.

I mean, it would be like Algeria having, the president of speech coming and talking shit to them. Like, why? Why? You know, it's funny? I said the exact same thing. I was like, we had a revolution to kick this motherfucker out, right? So why is he here?

Why is he here? And then to come and give a lesson to us talking about Article 5 and then we got to gear up. It's like fuck off, you dick. Yeah. That's what I said. King Charles needs to go to fuck home. Yeah.

Like, I mean, this is where my American nationalism. kicks in. Hey, let's see what the bigger nationalist here has to say. Robbie, what did you think of that? Well, I mean, none of the countries in Europe are real countries anyway. They're all vassals. If you have 200,000 foreign troops occupying you. Yeah. Seriously, what vote exactly is it that you have to say? And as far as that goes, you can put the entire British army into a soccer stadium. Sorry, you don't really get to dictate terms, especially because if we wanted to, we could turn your country off in a day. You can go your old wrinkled, bald, hemorrhoid smell and self right on back home and never come back.

Yeah. Fripeep keeper. Yeah. Let's go back home. You know? And as far as, and as far as Jabari was talking about, a couple months ago, John called PBD, a, you know, Patrick Med David, Zionist and said he was a supporter of the Shaw here on the program before he left. And he walked back, he walked that back is what the comment is about. Oh, that's our science.

So, so. So, so. So. So he, he, the fights on air. I mean, I can't point to the episode. But I left with a clear point of view that these guys were Zion. Oh, 100%. Well, 100%.

I don't want that back. I mean, John should have that fight. Um, I mean, listen, I would have. But on the flip side, though, I don't have the first. friends of John has. The only friends I have like right here. I mean, my circle is very, very small. That's pretty result of, Robbie. I'm sure here. You're my, you're my brother with a tan. I mean, that's just what it is, right? But I mean, no, you get a good point. I mean,

and sometimes you don't always feel like having those fights. So fair enough. Yeah. I mean, some people, I mean, not everyone's like me. I mean, you're getting at Gettysburg on the third day. Well, you do, you go up the middle. That's me. Uh, even if you're going to lose, so be it. So be. yet. No, just no consequence, no duty is mine consequences as gods. If you have someone like John Kariyaku who literally lost everything, the government destroyed his life, destroyed his health, destroyed everything. Yes. I can see why you would try to play nice and maybe have a chance whenever you're in your 60s to maybe build yourself a life. I'm a man in grace. I get it. Me, I don't, I don't,

care. I'm more than happy to strike the match and burn it all down because I don't have anything anyway. What do you have to take? That's the difference. And by the way, I'm not bashing out for it. For sure. But a lot of people go do because I said, well, you know, you're walking this back. You're back peddling. Maybe he is. What I would say is, if you have the arrows in your chest that that man has, then you start throwing your rocks until then shut your face. John has gone through some shit. Yes. I don't know if the audience.

No, but Jesus. I mean, it's not just the public stuff. It's like even stuff behind this. It's just fucking intense. Well, I mean, listen, anyone who watches this show, just go look at the numbers from a month ago compared to what they are right now.

If there's anyone that should be pissed off, it's me and Ted. Because we're the ones who are eating the sandwich, right? Yeah. That being said, I don't begrudge him what he's done. I don't begrudge him any success that he gets. I hope that he gets all the success he's able to. I think he'll stay true to his principles.

I truly do. We talked about that when he visited us here in Calaisville on Monday. I told him, don't forget the people who got you where you are. And I said, you need someone in your ear who's willing to tell you who's not these Hollywood types. John, you're making a mistake. And I think that he's willing to do that. I've always liked John. He's been very affable.

He's very kind. He's an interesting guy. I wish him the best. I mean, as you pointed out, it's, you guys work with him. I didn't get the opportunity to work with him on this show. I just worked with him at the network. And so, yeah, if there's any thing. I mean, from my point of view, I like John.

And I want the best for him. In fact, I want the best for it. Pretty much everybody. except my name's I'm happy I mean I don't define John in that box

I like it I mean if I ever went to if I ever got the invitation which would never happen to go to Patrick Vitavis podcast I would look him in his face I'd tell him he's a slime ball

I would tell him he's a sick son of a bitch I would tell him he's a holy own city area of Israel if you don't like it don't invite me back but I wouldn't walk him back because that's just my temperament

John's a much nicer person than I am He is I have a very I don't know if he's nice of it I'm just saying he's nice. I mean, my biggest problem, honestly, is I have this very unfortunate tendency of telling people what I think.

And sometimes it serves me well, more often than not, it doesn't, especially if you live in a country where no one ever says what they mean. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny. My ex-girlfriend, she was Austrian. And she was looking at cultural stuff for Americans. Like, basically, things that are different between American Austria. And one of the things that, like, royally fucked with her was that Americans can be very affable and nice when they're dealing with you.

But Americans would know when another American is not being serious about something, but just putting it out there for effect, just like kind of as a lubrication between the way people are engaging. It's not really honest, but it's not really a lie. It's kind of just there as a place over. It's like, yeah, maybe we should go and get lunch one day. really? Yeah, let's go out and get lunch, etc. That's never going to happen. Right? And she was like, when somebody would tell her that, she would take it as literally. And when it wouldn't happen, she was like, I can't believe it. They just lied to me, blah, blah, blah.

It's like, uh-ish, grease the wills. One thing also I want to point out, Ted, you lost everything too with your fighting against LA Times. And you were slandered. I mean, you didn't go to prison. But, I mean, you paid a price. And. I did. I'll go away because I mean, this is not about me. But I'm willing to tell you right now because I'm seeing some of the comments.

If you're my friend, right wrong or neutral, I will always have your back, like to the freaking hill. And I will happily help you bury a body if you're my friend. That's why my circle of friends is very, very small. Good to know. Get to know. Yeah. Everybody meets that guy, right. It's like, hey, don't ask any questions.

Just come. Bring your car. Bring your show. And no, I, I, that's always been kind of my, you know, my judgment for, you know, a friend, right? Like, if your friend is, let's say, nationally humiliated and, you know, you don't necessarily have to side with them in public, but you're still their friend. You still call. You help them.

you know, you, like, if you show up at my house and I hear police helicopters and you're like, Ted, don't ask any questions. I need the key to your car and any, and every dollar of cash you have in the house, I'd be like, go with God. Here you go. Go with God. It's like Al Cowlings, right? It's like, hey man, I need you to drive me to sozo.

It's like, okay, Drew's, let's get me. You know, like, there's like the Cuomo brothers. when a no the one who worked for CNN Jake what yeah Chris when he got railroaded for protecting his brother

is like right on you I don't give that guy on nothing I think he's just a complete turd but the fact that he stuck up for his brother and he went to the map for him it's like good on you conversely David Sinski who sold out his brother

the Unabomber fuck him not for sure I have no I have eight brothers and sisters and I'm gonna go away after this because we have a show to do And I don't say this lightly. You don't get to pick the people who share your last name, but sometimes you get to pick your family.

Ted Roll is my family. If he, if he called me tomorrow, he said, Robbie, I need your help. I need you here in New York. I would get on,

I would get in that, be that piece of crap truck of mine. And my little white ass would be there. That's what a friend is. Likewise, Robbie. Likewise. That's sweet.

That's so sweet. Yeah, we're so gay. Okay. In a non-queer kind of way. Let's say, let's have an ad here. Let's see if I can make this one work. It's not even for coffee.

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Nice. Good enough. All right. That's good to know. Yeah, and let's see. We have some more comments here. Okay, here we go. Manchild, are they radicalizing, or is the middle class just training in networking breakfast?

It's for tactical brunch and using LinkedIn as a recruiting platform to circle back on a revolution. I don't. See, it's the term radicalize. That gets me. Like, if we were in a normal political space and what the hell is the normal mean in this context, right? If you were in... Well, let's say you're in 1980s. Well, let's say you're 1980s. Oh, that doesn't even make sense because they tried to assassinate Iran, Oregon. Are they being radicalized? Let's start there. Do you think they're being radicalized in the sense? Like, is it radical what this guy did? Well, there's radical politics, and then there's, which clearly he doesn't subscribe to.

does not sound like a man who wants to overthrow the capitalist system and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat or conversely on the far right create a fascist state right so it's neither liberal right he's a liberal um the tactic obviously assassination is a radical tactic right so i mean it's the difference that's what's interesting uh typically we've been used to you radical politics and tactics and strategies all going together and here they're not That's what's, that detachment is what's interesting. I mean, there are not a lot of examples of, well, I mean, I guess normal politics. It's really true.

I mean, John Wilkes Booth, Robbie would know more about this than me. John Wilkes Booth wasn't really politically radical, right? No, he wasn't. It was just, I think what broke him. Lee Harley-E Oswald was, he was a communist. I think really what pushed Wilkes over, over, the um over the edge was sherman's march at the sea just that total war like that is the first time of modern history where there's a every army this is a moderate person reacting to a mainstream

to a politic to the political class in this case the lincoln administration that is itself radical yeah well because that army waged war against the civilian population which up until up you can make the case maybe vicksburg but sherman though took it to a whole other level like He turned butchery into an art. And that's what pushed Wilkes over the edge. But see, I think, look, I think valid countries that are in valent actions effectively create valid people. I mean, like the moment that the government, look, I get it, right? The government likes to say we have the dispensational force or the priority on force.

Yeah, but is, I mean, that is given. Like, I have to agree with that. And yes, you can beat me because you have that that proportional overwhelming force. Fair enough. But that doesn't mean that that's always going to be that way. And it doesn't necessarily mean that if I don't necessarily ascribe to it, or if I take your logic for the way you kill people, that I may just say, hey, if you can't do it, why can't I? Meaning, if it's okay for you to murder people abroad, if it's okay for you could murder people in mass by the tune of thousands, hundreds of thousands. Which is radical.

It didn't say it. But is that radical? Like, meaning, is that? Well, it's extreme. It's extreme. Well, look, first, no, Jamarro, you live here in the South. No. Yes.

Black IPs are a staple. Do you know why that is? No, but when, so black eyed peas used to only be fed to livestock because they thought they weren't, you know, edible by humans. The whole reason why they started being ate by people is because when Sherman went through, I mean, they burned the farms. It didn't matter. a white farm and the map of them they destroyed everything it was total war against the civilian

population in georgia and south carolina right the reason why black eyed peas are staple in the south is because the only thing the only food that the yankees didn't burn were the black eyed peas because they thought they were uneditable so the survivors of that march subpoiled them and they lived off of them and that's why on new year's day in southern families you have collards and black eyed peas is because without the black eyed pee, you would have literally starved to death. That's the kind of war that Sherman waged. And no, we can look at Israel and say, you know, this is what you're doing. And both things, both things can be correct.

I mean, John Wilkes Booth lived in D.C. through the entirety of the war. He only shot Lincoln after Lincoln allowed Sherman to do that. And let's be clear, Sherman. allowed Sherman to do that. Oh, 100%. There's no question historically about that at all. Like when you, if you are rational human being,

I guess what I'm trying to say is the radicalization is not the act. The radicalization is willing to give yourself up for the act. 100%. We're looking at the world rationally. Your politics aren't like insane. It's not like aliens are going to come and space Jesus is going to do something. It's not that.

Right. It's not the Hail Bob comet. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the about comment like I got to kill the president in order to go to heaven and my $5 bill with my black sneakers yeah it was pure revenge I mean there's a reason why he said thus be the tyrants when he jumped onto the stage of fourth theater well that's of course supposedly what uh what's his name brutus says to Caesar in but in this Shakespeare version yeah of the assassination right not really so it will always be for tyrants right or isn't that what that's what it means.

Sinkseh, temper, tyrannis. Isn't that on the flag of like Virginia or someplace? Yeah, it is. The Virginia's flag of

geronis, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Okay, so by the way, Sir Bikes a lot. Being a centrist is being radical because it gives us the current situation we're dealing with right now.

Well, if radical is negative. Please, J.T. read the Twilight of Pluto since you're into astrology. What? Wait, said it again? What's the book? It's called the Twilight of Pluto.

And Jabari, I made a mistake that David was called Designs. They played a clip from the showroom. John called it. I think Zionist is. I think Jabari is using Siri to do his comments because I do that. And so I kind of recognize, I'm like, designs. What does that sound like? Must be Zionist.

Let's see. King Charles was friends with Jimmy Seville. It says Frank Field. Thanks for the donation. That is true. Manchild, Disney gets an early renewal bill for one Kimmel monologue. How many decades of license stripping would Trump O if we applied the CAR standard to his own daily rhetoric? We should talk about that.

Let's do it. Okay, go into the sort. Well, so Brendan Carr, he's the chairman of the FCC, and he appears to have, be weaponizing the FCC just as much as Cash Patel is weaponizing the BFCC. FBI. And basically he is one day after Trump and Melania took issue with Kimmel's joke about, you know, Melania looking forward to becoming a widow, which by the way, I think is probably true. My biggest problem with Jimmy Kimmel is that he's really a literalist. He's not really a comedian. But anyway, he's just a commentator. that basically Disney, which owns ABC, was told that they're going to have eight of their broadcast licenses reviewed prematurely.

It sounds obviously like a classic, like Nixonian example of like, oh, you oppose me, I'm going to have the IRS audit your taxes, right? It's the same sort of shit. It's gross. It is illegal. Retaliations against the law in most states. But, you know, basically it's, you know, it's never part. because it's the state who's going to punish you? For one, the joke is funny.

Yeah, the joke's not funny. Yeah. Yeah. Two, I think you're right that she may be looking forward to it. Which makes it even that much more funny. Three, it is outrageous. It's like, if I'm not mistaken, the government put in bars around the city of the president using the IRS go after people. when Nixon did it, meaning after Nixon did it, and correct with Vermont, you're a student of history.

The idea that the federal government is going after people who are making jokes about the president is outrageous. That is some like emperor stuff, right? Like, I don't like the joke. You're making fun of me. Yeah, it's like how Voltaire got sent to prison. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget which of the two French Restoration kings of the 1830s.

it was, but yeah, he was sent to prison for making fun of the king. I mean, it happened all the time. I mean, of course, being French sent to prison as a notable literary figure in France wasn't like that bad. You know, you ended up, you know, you had a, usually had a chef. You had a, you got to bring your books with you. You had to bring, you had proper furnishings. You kind of had a dingy apartment in, is how it, how it went. It's kind of like the way the mob The mafia guys lived in Goodfellas in prison. Yeah. It's so pathetic.

Like, it's so petty. It's a thin-skinned man who calls himself a tough guy, but prick him and he bleeds and cries about it. He's little pussy. Yeah. It's pathetic. It's like, you know, Jimmy Kimmel, whatever you want to think of him, ignoring him, removes this story. That's the way. The joke now blows up because you have now,

highlighted the fact that you made a joke that strife sound effect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's ridiculous. It's absurd. Yeah, most of us would have never heard that joke. I mean, I never watched Jimmy Kimmel. I think he sucks. All of that late night shit sucks.

But now that you've done this, you've brought it to my attention. I think it's absolutely hilarious. And we've been reading it on air. Like, meaning you've drawn attention to something. Like, you never punch down. You never draw attention to some shit that you don't want to draw attention to.

But what's going to do is trying to put a chill on others who are saying stuff because those others don't necessarily want to be in the crosshairs. They should stick together, frankly, but they're not going to do it. No, you were right about that. That is what they should do. Let's hit a few more comments, and I do want to talk about Gustavo Petro, because that stuff's interesting. Jabari, thanks for the 499. Totally agreed, Robbie, I had John on my show, and I know that some of his friends in Connecticut, I get it. F-U-Soe, thanks for the dollar.

Now that John Curiacu is a Hollywood star, how long before they put him in a dress? Stop. Put him in a dress? I'll tell you one thing about John Curiacou. He's not going to end up in a dress. Well, they make this group, they're all trying to put black in the dress. That is not going to happen.

Okay, and maybe Bluth Punk on whistleblowers. Did you guys ever have Barrett Brown on? Have you heard of him? I think he's really paid a price. I have not do It was very brown Robbie do you have a clue Who that is

Not a clue but I will find out Find out if he's good Bring him on I'm assuming he's a he All right Okay so Gustavo Petro Is hosting sort of an alternate

Like now that the cop conference Has been completely Taken over by big Petroleum The big energy Colombian president Gustavo Petro outgoing president has a conference of 57 international governance to address the climate crisis

in a more meaningful way, kind of trying to do what COP started out to do. Here's a quote. There's inertia in the power and the economy of this archaic form of energy, fossil fuels, that leads to death. Undoubtedly, that form of capital can commit suicide, taking with it humanity and other life. The question that needs to be asked is whether capitalism can truly adapt to a non-fossil energy model, we are headed toward barbarism, and barbarism is the prelude to or the very essence of fascism. There's a lot to unpack there. I don't, first of all, I can't talk. So to answer the first question, I don't think that, I think there's no reason. I don't think capitalism requires fossil fuels. I mean, capitalism can live on solar and wind and hydroelectric.

Of course, right? I mean, put it this way. If they found a way to the Star Trek universe is not living off a while, right? They've made it a harpice energy in a way where basically it just needs energy. It doesn't, meaning oil is a prelude And it's kind of like money is a conduit between transactions and relationships between human things. It minds the gap. It does work or is an allegory for work. Energy is this allegory for, it can be anything. As you point out, solar, when?

If they found a way to tap the vacuum energy in a glass teacup, they can use that. It doesn't really matter. Solar. They don't care. Yeah, I don't think that matters at all. The other question is, is barbarism? the prelude or the essence of fascism. I would say that fascism is legalized barbarism.

You know, like one of the things that in Nazi Germany people noticed, and the reason that the Nuremberg laws and the night of the long knives and Crystal Noct are so notable is because they're either carried out directly by state actors or they're created by, they're carried out by paramilitary allies of the society. state who turn a blind eye why their allies are literally breaking the laws of the of the regime itself right like beating up killing people stealing their property and on crystal knock vandalizing property that was all illegal under the under german and berlin law right like in 1938 um but the the states like well these are you know stormtroopers and oh well what are you going to do um that's barbarism

It's legalized barbarism, I think, is the key. You can have barbarism and not have fascism very clearly. Right. No, I agree. I was about to say, is that the extremes of fascism? I think Israel's genocide is an example of that. Everything that the IDF is doing is it runs contrary to Israeli law. I mean, against Israeli law to torture people, to rape people, to kill people,

confiscate their property. to loot. These are all, these people are all breaking their own country's laws, right? But because those laws are not enforced and like literally now, you know, you have like Palestinians can be subject to the death penalty by hanging, but people who commit the same act but who are Israeli Jews cannot, that's fascism or it's an attribute of fascism. It's not the, it's just not everything you need to make fascism, but it's a, it's a big element. I mean, Israel is a, is pretty close to being a full-fledged fascist state at this point. I think it is fascistly. I mean, they're pretending like their democracy or apartheism, right? Yeah, I would call them an apartheid state.

But it's 100% in apartheid state. There's no question about that. Do you mean fascism, like you can have petty fascism that still has laws, if that makes sense? Like, meaning, can you have all of those things in a system that's not fascist? Like, meaning, can you have what they call it, quote, unquote, democracy? And yet, people just ignore certain laws. I mean, the malignments calls for Trump, for example. They're just ignoring it. Yeah, they got to pay attention to it.

We're going to maximize profit, meaning they ignore laws, even a capitalist or democracies or republics. I mean, they still do the same shit, right? This is a seriously important question, and I don't mean to beg off on it, but it's 9-59, so we have to call it a show. Look, let's get into it tomorrow. Let's pick up and we'll make that the beginning of the show tomorrow. All right, guys, thanks everyone for tuning in. You've been watching Deep Program with Ted Roll and Jamarral Thomas, which are Monday through Friday at 9 a.m. Eastern Time. I can't do the Q&A show today. I don't know if you and Robbie want to do it. Do you and Robbie want to do it? Without me?

It's entirely up to JT. If not, I can make clips. Because I'm still catching up for Monday. I'll have brought me me clips. Okay, all right. So no Q&A today at 12 noon. The next Q&A show will be Monday at 12 noon. All right. Okay, and with that, everybody,

thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you tomorrow. Please stay tuned for a TMI show. You guys have to bring me out because of the whole glitch. Okay, bye. Be safe. Now we are getting ready, boys and girls, to head on over to the TMI show.