DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Call-In Friday | DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

Got a question for CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou and/or political cartoonist Ted Rall? Today's your chance to bend their ear about the news of the day or anything else you feel like! It's a Rumble-only exclusive where you can call in live. Be pithy, be quick, be brilliant on DeProgram!

Ask a question. There is a voice. There's a voice channel at the bottom of the Discord server. And you're going to see one that's conveniently says lobby. Please get in lobby. Wait your turn. I will drag you. I will drop you. Ask your pithy and smart question. And then once your pithy and smart question is asked, I will then banish you to the gaming room. And that's how it goes. And because we are on Rumble, feel free to ask whatever you want. The only thing I ask is that please do not be a dick to my friends. You can't ever be a dick to me if you think I'm a racist white supremacist and i encourage those comments and uh if y'all are ready i will bring over our first human and what constitute quote constitutes dickery is completely subjective well that well that that's and determined by john and i and bobby but to say that's up to the hosts so

no so if you give me this is not a democracy this is like ukraine okay yes all right so you all right Here we go. So Alphonse, you are up first. Good morning, Alphonse. Thanks for joining us. There we go. So Alphonse, you are up first. I think, good morning, guys.

Oh, hold on. We got some. You have a delay. I hear an echo. Alphonse, can you mute your tab if you're watching us on Rumble? Sure. So, yeah, I have a question regarding. Hold that thought.

Sorry. Robbie, this is going to be the same situation that people have on talk radio where they call and they have their radio on and there's an eight second delay and then people have this. So please, throughout the hour, let's just remind people to mute their tab when they call. Otherwise, we're going to have this problem. Okay, go ahead. Alphonse. Sorry about that. Go ahead. Yeah, so two technologies that are sort of on the horizon, I think, in the West that are, for me, kind of worrying, are the implementation of digital IDs and central bank digital currencies. So I was curious what your guys' thoughts on those were. Yeah. Well, I mean, so we don't have in the United States a digital, we don't have an ID law. Like in most countries in the world, for example, John and I are both dual nationals. I don't know how Greece handles this, but in France, it is the law that you have to carry your national ID card with you everywhere you go if you're a French citizen. And any law enforcement officer can approach you and demand your identification.

The French don't really view it as much of an impingement on their freedoms. But on the other hand, they also don't have a First Amendment. So it's a different world. The thing is, it looks like we are moving in that direction because of real ID in this card. where increasingly you're not going to be able to get, you know, be able to get out and do anything without it. So it's not like it's going to be the law, but it might be the practical law. I don't know. I can't, I don't expect this Congress or future Congresses to kind of, you know, back away from that. That just seems like the movement we're moving.

And I want to deal with the currency question after John answers this question. yeah you know yesterday as you can see from my background i'm in a hotel room i flew from washington to miami yesterday afternoon and i have um clear you know that uh that service where you scan your face and and just blow through yesterday i went through clear and for the very first time i never had to see a tsa agent or officer um i went through this new thing and just walked right through and put my stuff on the on the x-ray belt I thought oh clear's really getting sophisticated sophisticated it's not clear it's that now that we have the smart IDs TSA is scanning our faces and they're holding the scans it's in their database

it wasn't just John that blew through TSA it was a whole bunch of people because we were already in the database, and that made me angry. But it's the future, and it's like we're powerless to stop it. On the other issue, the issue of the digital currency, this is something that also troubles me, because I don't see it just as a digital currency. I see it as financial surveillance. If everything we do is going to be digital and it's going to be online,

and there's going to be some kind of computerized record of every financial transaction, that we make and that's that's to me a direct assault on our liberty and this do-nothing Congress every do-nothing Congress is going to just pretend that it's not happening we're all going to be screwed and stuck in the end yeah John I totally agree with that the currency thing I mean you know so basically we kind of effectively already have digital currency right I mean you know most people aren't using cash most people watching and listening right now probably haven't been to an ATM machine to withdraw cash in years. I'm no exception to that.

I go like once in a blue moon. It used to be like a major part of my life. My mother, I remember her, you know, getting her paycheck in the 70s and she would go to the bank. She would take out, she would cash her paycheck in its entirety, take out whatever she needed for spending money in cash, deposit the rest into her checking her savings account. And that's the way people lived.

And the thing is the government, so there was more of a robust, underground economy. Just think about how hard it is, for example, to be an undocumented migrant nowadays when, you know, yes, cash still exists and cash is still king. But they want to get rid of that. And we're sort of contributing to that voluntarily just by, like, you know, with young people, like, oh, it's so convenient. Checking accounts are being abolished. You know, basically, you know, it's like this is all abstract, but here's how it would really work. Let's say someone like is on the lamb and the government's after them.

The government can just turn them off with a flip of a switch, right? So literally, you know, everywhere you surface, you know, you're suddenly, like, think about Ed Snowden, right? He flew, he was flying, changing planes in Russia. During that time, Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State, turned off the chip in his passport and deactivated, oh, John Kerry, deactivated, sorry, deactivated his, basically deactivated his passport so he couldn't make his next flight. That's how he got stranded in Moscow. And so that, you know, that was years ago.

And so now everything, they can turn off your driver's license. They can turn off everything. And so, yeah, we don't really have personal freedom. And if our Congress cared or if we cared enough to lean on our Congress, maybe something would change. But I think we're head, dystopianism is just going to increase. You know, I wrote a book a couple of years ago called The CIA Insider's Guide to Disappearing and Living Off the Grid. And the sad bottom line of that book is that it's almost impossible to disappear and live off the grid. It's not just a case of giving up, you know, email or not using your credit cards or your cell phone.

you can't have anything that would allow international travel. You can't use anything but cash, which makes it hard because a lot of places just don't take cash. They're not equipped to take cash anymore. And essentially the bottom line is you're going to have to live out in the woods in a tent and forage for food because otherwise you're going to be on somebody's grid. It's almost unavoidable now. Alphonse, thanks for that call. Robbie, do we have someone else? We do.

Chip, you are up. Please remember to mute your tab if you're not using headphones. Keep your questions pithy and you're alive, sir. Hi there. Can you hear me? Perfectly. Great. Thank you.

John, on Wednesday, I emailed you a list of bullet points. And in the interest of brevity, I'd like to just read them off if that's okay. Sure. Great. United States faces multiple serious problems, amongst them congressional corruption, media co-option, endless wars, expanding wealth equality, et cetera, et cetera. People of goodwill have been struggling with these problems for decades, but to little or no avail.

Addressing these districts piecemeal has proven to be a failed strategy, I stress that. Instead, addressing these multiple problems, while crucial still feels like arguing over a zoning permits in Pompeii while Vesuvius is about to explode. Yeah, I laughed when I saw it. The real problem is that the United States is in the declining stage of empire, a stage that can be characterized with a single word, chaos. I don't have to like it, but the people of the United States are in for a rough ride. Will it be the French Revolution or the dissolution of the Soviet Union, one way or the other?

The end of empire is an historical imperative. There are two steps towards solving any problem. One is acknowledgement of the problem. The second is acceptance of the problem. The former is an intellectual exercise, the latter, an emotional exercise, and therefore more difficult to accomplish. And finally, if the public is not brought to appreciate the historical overriding path that has brought us to this point, we are fucked with the capital S.

So I've been thinking about this issue for several years, and I don't have the solution, but I'm hopeful that wiser minds can come up with an idea because it seems to me that while it's important to, we're all running around with, like, with our own private little, this problem, that problem, the other problem, and it's a little like the little Dutch boy who's holding his fingers in the dike, not anticipating that sooner or later the dam is going to burst and nobody's getting ready for that. Let me ask you then, do you see a path to a solution? All I can think of is that we need. Yes. I do. What would you propose? Well, this is difficult, but I think it is the only way out, which is that the collective public needs to be aware of what's the background problem.

Yeah. And I need to, we need to, I personally would like to proliferate that idea, which is one of the reasons why I'm here today right now talking to you guys alive on the air. If I, if I come off sounding like a crackpot and I've defeated my own purpose, which is why I know, I know you, and I know you're not a crackpot. Well, but I'm anxious that I've not come across that way because if I do, it's like I've shot myself in the foot. So for me to try to come up with a solution, what I just articulated is the best I've been able to come up with. I'm hopeful. What I wrote to you is that I'm hopeful, the wiser minds may be brought to bear. That's what I wrote.

So anyway, that's what I'm doing here. If anybody wants to comment on all ears. You know, I'd like to say something. I think that our system has become so warped. Well, let me back up. The system that the founding fathers gave us, it was intentionally flawed. It was intentionally flawed so that we had three co-equal branches of government. We didn't have a strong executive, and the three co-equal branches could offset one another.

But we've developed a strong executive over the years. And right now- Can I say something? Please. That started with what the person I was. refer to as Idiot George, I think, that sort of slipped over the precipice with him, right? It was always that way a little bit, but Idiot George really pushed it and along with President Cheney. Although a lot of people would say, a lot of right-wingers would also have said that FDR, they thought of us having dictatorial tendencies too.

I would not disagree, but I would also, I would add. that at that time unions were strong enough that a lot of what he was driving for came from the broader public rather than himself personally. I think. Maybe that's wrong, but that's my impression. John, I mean, I don't, look, we all, like,

we're all into history. I mean, I got to be honest, I don't think that there's a quote-unquote solution here to be had. That was the conclusion that I was coming to. I mean, I think that this is like, it's a historical trend. And when you get a historical trend, it's like that Greek king, that Greek king who ordered his soldiers to whip the waves in the ocean. There's just nothing you can do.

It's like you can basically be. Well, let me just finish my thought here. If you can be like a, you know, like a surfer, you basically want to manage the tide and deal with the waves that you have. and survive the best you can. But, I mean, historically, I can't think of any examples where you had a collapsing empire. I mean, you can put it off. Hadrian put it off.

But in the end, it's going to go. And in the end, collapse is inevitable. And as much as I would like to turn collapse into revolution, I don't know how. No, no. And that's, you're right. It's absolutely inevitable. But one of the problems I have is that there is so much in this concept.

But what I mentioned quite purposefully is, will it be the French Revolution or the dissolution of the Soviet Union? We have a choice, I believe. It's going to be the collapse of the Great Union. Well, I hope you're right, but I think it's entirely dependent. Oh, I'd rather have the French Revolution personally. Well, okay, but what I'm trying to say is it's entirely dependent upon the public gathering together. That's the only way, right, to avoid. the disaster of the French Revolution or something like it.

I don't think the French Revolution was a disaster. Well, it killed a lot of people. I mean, come. But a hundred years later, it basically morphed into what we consider to be the West and all of its ideals and that we basically... The alternative today is nuclear Armageddon, right? So that's a little different. I'm going to... That's what frightens me.

I'm going to jump in. We've got some more people who are patiently... waiting in line. No, Chip. Thank you so much. Chip, it was good. Thank you, Chip. I appreciate you coming in.

All right. Ray C is next up. Ray, you are live. Welcome, sir, to the show. Hi, Ray. Oh, he's muted. Let me unmute him.

Ray, I can see you're muted. Please demute yourself. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. We lost right. Oh, Ray might be gone. Did you lose him? Uh, yeah.

He just vanished. He just disappeared. We'll try to bring him back. Yeah, try to come back. Okay. Next. So next up, we're going to bring in John Jackson. John, you're alive.

And he's muted. Yeah, they start off muted. Let me see if I go. Hey, I'm here. There you go. Hey, John. Hey, how are you guys doing today? We're good.

We're good. By the way, before you say, Robbie, is it possible if these people want to, to show their faces on video? Absolutely. All they got to do is just click the little camera icon right there up under their little box. Unless you're like doing the Jeffrey Tube and Lifestyle,

in which case, just leave it the way that. Yeah, and don't do that. Let me make sure the background's all good. Okay. Well, I don't know, porch here. Porches are good. Oh, I love porches. I do too.

Hey, y'all even let me on camera sometimes. I went to, I knew a grad student who did her thesis about the decline of the American porch in architecture. And it was tied directly to the advent of the television. Oh, wow. That's cool. People went inside and just started, they didn't, instead of hanging out outside. In my new book, I talk about John Phillips Sousa, who gave an interview in 1906, and he said,

I don't like this newfangled record player invention. nobody's going to listen to these things when they hear music they want music to be live nobody's going to be playing music in their houses well I mean I also read that people like when the paperback became popular in the 1800s that it was considered like the advent of the end of civilization because it would just be trash

well it's all good but John go ahead and then your camera is not playing nice but that's okay your microphone says to be working just fine so go ahead and ask your questions go ahead john i could i could refresh it and see if it no don't worry about it john just let's have your question because we don't want to keep people waiting okay well um i was going to come on and talk about just my experience with kind of like computer hacking during the 90s okay quickly okay so i don't know there was uh you know it all started with like NetBus and Sub 7 if people are familiar with that and you can you know people

played with that and then virus scans came out but I ran into this guy who said he was from Mexico and he had this edited version of this AT&T software prototype that was being developed at Cambridge University called WinVNC and this thing was undetectable by virus scans so it's think of Pegasus it was a lot like Pegasus oh yeah so with this thing, I mean, I had put it on a lot of different places as a kid, of course. And the way it would work is if you had the Target's IP address, you put it into your browser with the port that's open, and you don't even need a client software. You can just use any browser from any computer on the internet.

It'll, it'll, because their computer starts hosting like an satchy server kind of does on their IP. You can just log right in on a Java applet, and you see their screen, you can control their mouse their keyboard input and uh and like i said it was undetectable by every virus scan back in the day and so i mean i've been kind of i've been kind of putting this together to make it a better story but i could come on and like with more details and notes well what we're really looking for questions here but yeah you got a question bring me back in and and maybe i'll come up with one from the context that that you guys are talking about okay sounds good thanks for that call and it looks like

Ray is back. Ray, I'm bringing you back in. Just unmute yourself. And you, sir, are live and in color. Hey, Ray, you're still, there you are. Hey, Ray. Hey, good morning, Ted. Good morning, John. Good morning. Morning. Morning. Ray. Hey, John. I got a question about, like, private contractors. Sure. And, uh, me. But basically, how does private contracting work? I found a woman a few years.

Ray, is your, are you, have you muted your tab? Hold on here, you might be hearing yourself back. We, uh, for all the callers, okay, there we go to need to, otherwise you hear yourself back like eight minutes, eight seconds later and it will drive you insane. Anyway, go ahead, Ray. Okay, John, like, I ran into a woman name, um, Tori Maris, another burnt spy, and basically she worked for John Brennan at Global Strategies Group. And what I'm asking is about private contractors, do they basically have more flexibility to do things that like agency personnel can't do? And where I'm going with this too is when

it comes to Brennan, she worked for John, you know, over there in England. And she knows where all the bodies are buried. And, you know, helping you out. kind of. I believe she's going to, uh, you know, be going against him, so to say. And where I'm going with this is, uh, I don't really, well, what the question is, is basically, uh, like, do they have more like, uh, oh, God, I'm a little nervous here, guys. No, no, no, no, fine. This is like, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just three guys talking. Just go ahead. Oh, okay. Well, basically, you know, do, do they have more clearance than the agency, guys? Can they do more.

flexibility so you know that's just basically it that's a very good question um the the short answer is no and this is the important thing there are different kinds of contractors there are what they call the butts in the seats contractors like booze allen well they'll bring in 500 people who just sit there at a computer but then they're the operational contractors that do off the books does not exist you know she also got burnt too and one other thing she she basically she wants you to get a pardon too just to let you know she's in your corner oh thank you thank you i hope she reaches out to me i'd love to talk to it but she has a website uh tory says but you know being a burnt spy from what i gather they did a number on her too like you should check into her

and what happened in north dakota also uh yeah that's that's all i'm pretty much going to say, although when it comes to Brennan getting burnt and maybe being called up in front of Congress, if that ever happens, she'll be testifying against his ass. So, you know, I'm just letting that out there, John. And so that's basically it. I just want to know about private contracting. But from what she was explaining, she, she basically said she was a localizer, and what do they do? Do they run operations like they send her in, you know? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay, you just check her out. Terse Horri Maris is her name.

Yes, I see her website right here. I just pulled it up. Check out some of her articles, though. You'd be interested in her, though, too, man. That's pretty much all we got to say. Hey, Ted, rock on, man. And John, rock on too, man. Thank you, buddy.

We appreciate you, Ray. Thank you. Thank you, Ray. If you're just joining it, you're watching Deep Program with Ted Roll and John Tariaku, and we are taking live calls for the very first time. So far, it's been going pretty well. And we appreciate you.

Basically, this is a Rumble exclusive. We're going to be posting this to YouTube. So if you're watching this to YouTube later, and you want to participate in something like this in the future, you'll have to join Rumble. But you can watch this on YouTube, and thank you for doing that. We're going to, I'm going to wait for Robbie to feed up an ad. But you can go into the Rumble chat, and there's a link for Discord.

You just click on that link, and then Robbie basically takes it from there. Robbie, do we have any more callers? We do, and we are skipping the ads today. I also have an overlay built for it, so we're just going to just keep on going to humans, and that's fine. So next up, we'll be Groyper Intelligence Agency. Groyper, you, sir, are live, and you are currently muted. Just unmute yourself, and let a reminder.

If you want to be on video, you can be, but it's, you don't have to be. Yep, it's up to you. Royper, go ahead. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, we hear you. Please mute your tab if it's not already muted so that you don't hear yourself back. All right. I love your guys a show.

I mean, I've watched for a while. But my question is for Mr. Curiakou. John, you talked about how the CIA uses controlled media assets to shape narratives. Yes. From your experience is the most effective media asset, the one who genuinely believes the half-truths he's selling, or the one who knows exactly how far he can go and still keep the platform. Oh, that's a very good question. I think it's the former. I think it's the true believer who does the most damage. You know, I was, I mentioned a few minutes ago, I'm here in Miami, seeing a bunch of friends of mine from the media, we were talking about the Iraq war yesterday. And we were talking about the damage that the New York Times and the Washington posted by parroting back the official line that they were getting from. from Dick Cheney and others in the White House.

And the damage that they did, here we are a generation later, the damage that they did is still being felt. And it was because they were true believers in the propaganda coming out of Washington, true believers. Do you mean like the Judy Miller or some people like that? Judy Miller, to me, is the worst of the worst. Yeah.

In fact, somebody said, the fact that no Americans objected, objected to the whole idea of embedded journalists was the beginning of the end for free press. Don't even get me started. Embedded journalists in like CNN and Fox News. New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, and they would put those journalists in military units and send them into Iraq with the military units where they were like part of the team. They felt like they were part of the team. And in fact, all they ended up doing was parroting back.

propaganda on the front page of the New York Times and the top story on CNN. And so that's all we got was propaganda. It was also very dangerous for unembedded reporters like myself in Afghanistan. On more occasions than I could possibly count, I had Afghans ask me, why shouldn't they kill me, given the fact that I'm a propagandist and that I hung out with the troops? And I was like, I never hang out with the troops. I stay with local families. I'm completely independent.

And, you know, you had to kind of talk your way out of it. But those people, that program is very dangerous for real reporters. And basically, there's no way, like Robert Fisk has an episode that he talks about in one of his books where he was in northern Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation in the early 80s. And he went to an area he wasn't supposed to be. He didn't have permission from the Soviet regime. And basically, they picked him up. They arrested him. And they were like driving him back to Kabul in a troop transport.

it and they came under fire from the Mujahideen. And during the chaos, the Russian commander put an AK-47 into Robert Fisk's hands and said, you know, like, help us. And so, and he did. He fired at the, at the Mujahideen, and they got out of it. And he wrote about the episode later, and he caught a lot of abuse and criticism for it because it was like, you know, hey, you're admitting that you basically became a combatant and you were not independent. And he's like, Listen, they were shooting at us. The Mujah Hadin weren't asking for IDs. They weren't asking for explanations.

But that shows you, and he was, you know, unwillingly embedded, okay? But when you're literally willingly embedded and trained and you become friends with, you bond with these people who, you know, are armed and you're not and they're protecting you. And you're going to, of course, you're going to identify with them. You can't help it. But I've got to say also, the second category of journalists, the ones who basically just know how far they can go and just don't go further than that, which, by the way, is pretty much all of them is, I mean, that's so pervasive. That's the entire system. I mean, Judy Miller's are kind

of the extreme exception. I kind of have a follow-up question of this, too. Do you think Tucker Carlson falls into the role of a controlled media asset? I don't. And why not? I might have giving you a different answer three years ago or so, four years ago. But now I don't. There's something that I've noticed about Tucker, and I know I'm relatively well. He's been liberated by his departure from Fox News. He was absolutely positively controlled at Fox News, and he assented to it gladly. But since he was fired from Fox News and his gone into business for himself there is nothing holding him back he's taking some very unpopular positions and just running with it so right now i would say he doesn't answer to anybody but himself

i don't know man it seems like he he baines ignorance to certain topics that he clearly knows a lot about he's one of the brightest people i've ever met right so one of the most well-informed yeah So why does he vary and grants to those topics? Well, you want to give an example, and then we do have to move on. I do have one. I mean, he platformed the great replacement theory. And then when that Buffalo shooter happened, he said, let me get the actual quote. He said, I've literally never heard of this theory.

That's possibly, that's possibly Trumpy. That's Trumpian. all right well that's that's all i got uh i love you guys i love you rob you're going to have thank you for that yes sir all right good bye thank you so much all right we're taking calls here for the first time on friday we are who else who else do we have uh first we got a shout out tarquin one one one three seven zero has become a monthly supporter over on rumble thank you very much for that we appreciate it let me ask real quickly is that tarquin ramsie by any chance oh i have no idea well i hope he tells us if he is or is not if it's tarquin ramsie i want to say

hello and very best regards it's been a long time gotcha well next up is going to be uh gregory batis gregory you are live please unmute yourself and if you have not muted your tab please do so just make sure we all get an echo and you sir good to go sure good morning ted and john I wanted to ask you guys a thought on your thoughts on government waste and bureaucracy. I saw a clip a couple of months ago where the Air Force was criticized by Waltz for buying a bag of bushings for $90,000 for the airplanes. Apparently identical bushings used on commercial aircraft cost somewhere around $100. Second, about 10 years ago, the TSA paid $1.4 million to develop an app that points an arrow left or right to direct people to lines at the airport, assuming that people can't see which

line is short of themselves, of course. I'm not even mad at these individually, but I'm sure that this is happening in all possible corners of the government. And Social Security and Medicare funding are going to hit their limits in about seven years. Did you see any of this at the CIA or in the government firsthand? And what's going to happen? What are your thoughts on Ocent and the Ocent community? And I hope you get a pardon soon. I yield back. John, did you hear all that?

I literally didn't hear a single word. Oh, I am so sorry. I don't know what happened there. But basically, this was a question about waste and fraud, particularly waste in government, examples being like an app that the TSA spent over a million bucks for, just to tell passengers whether to go left or right at the airport. And so basically, did you see a lot of that kind of stupid overspending at the CIA? And then the other question was, are your thoughts about OSENT?

Yeah. Yes, we saw a lot of that at the CIA. And I'll tell you very quickly, just as an example, in the days after 9-11, it must have been four, five, six days after 9-11. I went to Kofra Black, the head of counterterrorism for the CIA. and I said, Koffer, I have an idea for an operation that I wanted to put by you. And he put up his hands and he says, whatever it is, just do it. I have so much money, I can't possibly spend it all. And besides just approving literally everything, no matter what it costs or how stupid the idea was.

And they want to spend their budget, right? Because if we don't spend it, then Congress will claw it back the next year. Got to give it back. And so not only that, but we all started flying business class and it was just we were swimming in money and you can't, you have to spend it. You can't give it back. Ocent, I was just having this conversation a couple of days ago with somebody. I think for a good measure, Ocent is the future. What Ocent means is open source intelligence.

So it's essentially press or anything that's out there and that's, available to the public. The CIA has, I'll call it an associated agency that's now called open source.gov. It used to be called the Federal Broadcast Information Service. And it's an army of translators and analysts whose job it is to read everything in the world that's out there, every newspaper, watch every news broadcast. You're basically Robert Redford in three days of the condor. That's exactly what it is. It's Robert Redford, but on a massive scale. John, you have a question in the chat from a, from someone named Tutoa. So sorry, you wanted to call in so bad by my work. Just curious, if you've had any contact with Jim

Simi. Wait, wait, Robbie, John's still answering the last question. Sorry. Oh, I thought he was going to add to the question. Okay, hold on. Sorry, Robbie. So, so yeah, I think that with these armies of translators and press analysts. That's the future. You know, I was talking to a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations at a, at a, there's this club where all the swells get together and we wear suits and we talk about the big ideas. So I was at this event the other night and I was talking to him and he said, you know, all the years that I was ambassador to the United Nations, he said, I never got

anything from the President's Daily Brief or from the National Intelligence Daily that I didn't first see in the New York Times, the Washington Post. That the classified intelligence added nothing to his understanding of the issues. And so I think Ocent is the future. I really do. Okay, Robbie, go ahead. Gosh, sorry about that. You went silent. I thought you were done. But no, we have a question for you. Don't know if you know a fellow named John Simivin at the agency. He's gone down a ton of work with UAP disclosure. No, I sure don't. You know, don't forget. I left the agency 21 years ago. It's been a long time. Gotcha. All right. But next up will be Sarah. Sarah, you are now live. If you're just going to unmute yourself and ask your question.

Hey, Sarah. Go ahead. Hi, John, hi, Ted. I love you guys. I try to watch every morning. Thank you. I have a question. What is your guys' thoughts on all these data centers that are popping up everywhere? Yeah. And they're popping up in the oddest places. I mean, I understand Herndon and Sterling, Virginia. I get it. It's close to the airport. It's close to Washington.

But they use huge amounts of water in their air conditioning to keep the place closed. And putting them in places like Arizona, for example, and Texas, I just don't get it. Oh, why are they in places? No, that's in Nevada is actually the most popular place. It's because there's fewer risks to something happening to them, right? Like there's no tornadoes, there's no hurricanes, there's no. There's no blizzards. I mean, nothing much can happen.

No earthquakes, wildfires, that kind of thing. So basically their main concern is, like, if you're like Amazon cloud computing, you don't want your data, you know, you don't want all your servers to be offline because, you know, a wildfire took out part of your facility or knocked out the power to it. But that's the main reason. Right. But the, I just know, I live in, oh, sorry. I'm just going to say, Sarah, sorry, then you can go. I mean, I was just going to say, I mean, look, my main consideration here is that we're at a time of environmental crisis, and we should be reducing power consumption as radically as we possibly can in order to reduce our carbon footprint.

And we're not doing that. We're moving in the exact opposite direction. Everybody, the most popular car in America is what, the Ford F-150, people are all driving SUVs, no one's buying sedans. And then we're doing this. And then there's crypto mining, which is like a sort of ridiculous, totally optional thing. So these data centers just so that you can basically, you know, search AI and ask it, you know, like I do, like for the discography of an obscure 90s alt rock band. It's just like it seems really stupid. But if nothing else, there's an expense here.

And everybody's electricity rates are going way up. And seems to me this won't happen because Congress is owned. But Congress really ought to force these. big tech companies that are responsible for this expenditure of power to cover these costs rather than ordinary Joe and Jane rate holder. But anyway, go ahead, Sarah. Yeah, I completely agree with you, Ted. I mean, that's what we've been fighting.

I live in Indiana, and they're proposing one within 10 miles from my house. I have a well, and I'm very worried about my property value A and the water source the weird thing that they're doing, I don't know if they're doing it in other states, I think they're trying to do it in Michigan as well. I saw a blurb this morning about it, but they are trying to obfuscate the names of the company. They actually have another LLC that has put in all of the requests to build. So the local residents have no idea who's even coming in.

We can deduce it's either going to be X meta or, you know, some type of other AI, you know, manufacturing facility, but it's just weird. The local residents are fighting back as hard as we can, but it doesn't seem like... You should have a right to know what's going in next to you. Exactly. I mean, maybe if it's a nuclear missile silo, you maybe can't and shouldn't know. But, like, you know, if it's something like that, there's no reason why you shouldn't be told. All right.

Well, thank you guys. I also wanted to know, do you guys are going to have a Patreon? or anything else? Yes. I'm already a Rumble premium subscriber, but I'd love to support you other ways. We are going to do, yeah, we're doing, thank you for that question, Sarah.

So I promise that was not a planted question. That was not that question. No, it wasn't. So, yeah, so we are doing both. We're doing a Patreon, and we're going to, and we're, it's in the works right now. And then we're also going to do like a swag, you know, thing.

So we're going to be selling merch, our books, and our idea is that we'll have limited edition things like mugs and shirts. So there's only like, say, a hundred of them. And when they're gone, they're gone. Then we'll do new ones to make it more interesting and more fun and maybe a little collectible. Who knows. Anyway. Awesome.

Thank you, guys. Bless you guys. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. All right. And just a quick little shout out. We are number 10 in the nation on Rumble right behind Alex Jones.

we are breathing down his neck. So if y'all do me a favor, share this. If this is a successful format, we're going to keep on doing what we're doing here. And hopefully I won't cut off the guests anymore, the host anymore. I like it so far. Hey, it's fun. All right, Tammy, you are now live. Please unmute yourself and mute your tab if you have not already and go.

Tammy, you're still muted. Please unmute yourself and we will be standing by waiting for you to talk. There you go. Cam, you're on the air. How do I mute my tab? You click on the control click on the tab itself, and one of the pull-down menus will be the option to mute. Control click.

Are you on a macro PC? Okay, am I muted now? You sound good. I don't hear any feedback. I got it. Well, I can't hear anything at all. Great. Great. So I have one question and then a begging to get a certain person interviewed by you guys on this platform or John's Deep Focus.

And that would be Dr. Jack Cruz because we are in a major health care crisis. And nobody's talking about it other than the stupid budget crap that Congress is doing that really doesn't. doesn't help anything. So I'm really anxious for his knowledge to become more prevalent because by my following what he was talking about, I've transformed my health. And people need to be empowered and not think that they have to rely on. Let me relate that to Tammy. Stay on the line. Let me relate that to John. For some reason, we have a glitch and he can't hear. So Tammy's asking you to us or you on your other show to interview Dr. Jack Cruz because of the health care crisis. Go ahead, Tammy. Sorry, and about what health care crisis exactly?

Well, it's a little, it's not a short answer, but he is saying things about how to improve your health that we are being told by the FDA and general science is bad for us. So basically alternative views of how we should be improving our health, I think is the... Well, I applied what he said and it worked. And I've been sick for years and years and years and lied to for years and years. So I'm desperate to have his message out. And so far, it's only the bit-coiners that are really messing with him. All right. So basically, John, just look into Dr. Jack Cruz.

Okay, anything else, Tammy? I wanted to ask a question about this rumble about a sanctuary island off of the coast of either, I think it's Georgia. and they said it was a private hunting island of people. Is that a sci-op or did that really happen? Yeah, I've got to think that's a slap. John Demi is asking whether there was a private sanctuary really was a private sanctuary island off the coast of Georgia

where human beings were hunted. The most dangerous game. Not that I've ever heard. No, no. says no all right Tammy thanks for that call and and for your support Robbie who's next so next up will be Phil chats Phil you are alive and John I'm not sure why you can't hear the callers you I don't know I hear some of them and then others it's just it's weird it's very strange all right Phil you're on the mute your tab if you haven't already

and unmute yourself oh let me there is right Bill you're alive All right, hey, good morning, John. Yes. I'll have John, Ted. Hey, what's your experience with an opinion of Dan Crenshaw with all this creepy drama that's been going on here later? I think I think Dan Crenshaw is one of the biggest scumbags in an organization of scumbags that calls itself the Congress of the United States. Crenshaw wants us to think that he is the future of the Republican Party. Instead, he's no such thing, in addition to just being a terrible human being.

And I'll give you an example. I was dating a woman a couple of years ago, and she was a journalist, and she had just interviewed Crenshaw. So we were at her place one night. It was about midnight, and we were watching a movie. And her phone happened to be next to me on the couch. It's midnight, and she gets a text. So I pick up the phone, and it's from Crenshaw, and it says, what are you wearing? And I said to her, I turned, and I said, it's a text from Crenshaw, and he says, what are you wearing?

And she said, that scumbag, she said, he's been after me since I interviewed him. And then he says, in the next text, I want to fuck you. And so I opened up the text and I said, hey, Crenshaw, why don't you tell your wife you want to fuck her instead of telling my girlfriend? And then he texts back, sorry. That's the kind of guy Crenshaw is. He's just a scumbag. And I would posit this.

if his wife can't trust him how is the country supposed to trust him and that's besides the fact that he said in a hot mic that he seriously wanted to kill Tucker Carlson that if he had the opportunity he would kill Tucker Carlson first guy's scumbagged this guy totally insane all right thanks for that call Robbie who's next

so we have got John Jackson he is back with a with a new question for us. Okay, so this is not something second callers is kind of frowned upon in a normal talk radio. So, John, we're making an exception in your case. So please be short and sweet. John, you're muted. John, you've muted yourself.

If you're taking your second call, you can't be muted. Nope. All right, let's, John, go figure that out. And do we have any of the call? There is. There is. Okay. John, go ahead.

All right. All right. So I've been following, you know, the conflicts all around the world and everything that's going on lately. And I've been just trying to run it through my own, you know, my own thoughts about what's going on. And I'm trying to connect everything like the AI, the robotics, the new advancement that are making in technology.

And I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about how there's going to be. be a lot of less employment because of this. And eventually, you follow that a little further, you get to a point where, you know, they don't need a bunch of labor force and things like that. And maybe that's why we're, maybe that's why they're sending all these people to the front lines right now to start kind of softening everything up and, you know, compensating for low birth rates and things like that. What are your thoughts?

When you say sending people to the front lines, Can you be more specific? What do you mean? Like right now in Russia, you know, they're doing everything they can. They're drafting people. They're importing people from North Africa, North Korea, things like that. You know, they're just getting rid of a certain demographic of populations from all over the world. And there's more than one front line. You know, you have Pakistan and India and Thailand and Cambodia and Israel, Iran, America, Venezuela, everywhere.

And I think what they're kind of doing is they're just trying to get. whoever's willing to go, to go, and they're just kind of like, we need way less people, let's start here sort of a thing, maybe. I don't think, so I think there's a relationship, but I don't think there's a cause and effect. I think that, like, so first of all, people, you know, nation states have employed mercenaries and outsourced fighting to foreigners for as long as warfare has ever existed. And so there's nothing really new about that.

But, I mean, you know, the Romans did it. Everybody's done it. But I think that there's a relation, but there's no doubt that, look, the principal issue that you brought up is massive, which is basically the power of the elites don't need us anymore in the same numbers that they used to, which is why the labor force participation rate keeps dropping. And, you know, even though I think probably it's over the estimates of how much AI is going to. increase unemployment are probably overblown, there's still going to be a significant increase in unemployment and underemployment because of all this technology. And really, truly, we need to do Andrew Yang on steroids. We need to start paying people to stay at home so that they don't go and start a revolution and burn everything down and kill all the rich, right? But the point is that they are probably

not going to do that, but that's what they should do if they want to save themselves. And so that is a massive structural, societal problem that, you know, I don't see this particular group of elites figuring out. But in terms of sending people to the front lines and everything, I think there's sort of a subliminal subtext, you know, for example, sending ICE to America or sending the National Guard to American cities in that basically the system senses that there's increased unrest and there's anger and there's rage. And I think, you know, because of that, you're going to see great authoritarianism more control more attempts to keep us in line so it's all related but it's I don't think there's think you know I don't think there's such

a thing as guys in a room sitting thing okay we have this AI issue let's gin up some wars and and and distract people with those wars I think it's sort of more more discreet than that what do you think John yeah I think that's right I honestly I really I'm not even sure I could add to this that I think you're exactly right okay Robbie one that we have so we have one more caller yeah we got time for one more mania the cat mania you are you are live unmute yourself and let her rip mania you're go ahead unmute hey mania hi guys so I have a question for pet which is what

What form of communism do you believe in? Because, like, people use the word communism a lot, right? But there are, like, many, many different form of it. Like, each person has, like, a different interpretation of it. Like, Marxism, communism is very, very different from, like, let's say, Leninism or Slartianism or Maoism or, like, all sorts of, like, different socialist leaders in, South America and Africa. So I've been curious about what form of communism does like that we live in?

Well, this is a great question and thank you. So basically, I'm a classic Marxist. I believe that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels correctly diagnosed many, if not all, of the course of capitalism over the next 175 years. I mean, think about the classic crisis of overproduction that we're suffering right now, where the system is producing lots of stuff and it's viewing citizens more as consumers than as citizens and more as consumers than wage earners, right? So, like, there's all this talk in the system now, for example, in bourgeois electoral

democracy about affordability and all of it is focused on we have to lower prices. None of it is focused on increasing wages or improving working conditions. That's all classic Marxism. Now that said, to take a page from Mao, we're going to need communism with American characteristics in 2025 and 2026 characteristics. And it's like it's not going to work unless we adjust and tinker and make everything work for our present situation in our present place. And it's going to have to be very specific.

But basically, I believe in the idea that nobody is worth any more or any less than anyone else and that nobody, because they happen to be better educated or more intelligent or more able-bodied or in a preferred ethnic or other demographic group, should have any higher income or privileges than anyone else. I think we're all absolutely equal, and I don't think we have a meritocracy, and I don't think we should have a meritocracy. But basically, the best I can do in like a two-minute answer, John, do you want to add anything to that? I think you hit it on the head. I think you did.

You hit it on the head. Okay. All right. We'll see what happens here. Guys, thank you so much for this joining our experiment. Robbie, you're saying that this is, this went well. And thanks to you, Robbie, for setting everything up from a tech standpoint. And we're going to, if we do this again, I think we probably will.

We'll try to add some bells and whistles technologically, you know, graphically and so on to make it maybe, you know, a little bit less rough. But it went really great. Thanks for me. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is our largest show in terms of live viewers ever. So, a lot of people are. are behind us. Whenever I say we are breathing down Alex Jones's neck here on Rumble.

I don't want to be too close to his neck, but yeah. Well, he has several. Or other body parts. Yes, yes. But no, I mean, it is good. Y'all have any last words before we raid over to the TMI show? Yes, absolutely. So please like, follow, and share the show.

We will be back on Monday at 9 a.m. Eastern time. Thank you so much for your support. If you're watching us later on YouTube, just remember you can do this next time we do a live show. I don't know when we'll do it. Maybe we'll just do call-in Fridays every Friday. But whatever.

Thanks for staying in touch. We're working on the Patreon and we'll keep you up to date about all that and the swag and all that stuff. Please stay tuned. TMI show with me and Manila Chan is coming right up. We're going to raid that over on Rumble.

So since everyone here is on Rumble, you'll be rated all the way over there. Thanks, John. Thanks, Robbie. Thanks, everyone. We're tuning in. Thanks for the car. Thanks, everybody.

Bye, bye, y'all. Bye. Thank you.