DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Congress to Trump: Stop the War! | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• The US House of Representatives votes under the War Powers Act to stop halt Trump’s war on Iran as the conflict drags into a fourth month. The vote was a striking commentary on just how much Republicans are losing patience with Trump and his war. It was a sign that a small but significant number of them are less willing to give him more time to try and figure a way out.• Israel and Lebanon agreed to a full ceasefire, contingent on Hezbollah halting attacks and withdrawing its operatives from the area south of the Litani River in Lebanon, according to a joint statement from the U.S., Israel and Lebanon.• Protests have grown against plans by Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law, to develop luxury properties on an ecologically sensitive portion of the Albanian coast. The protests, in the capital and in coastal towns, have become a lightning rod for widespread discontent in Albania, long one of Europe’s poorest countries. For years, the plans — a $1.4 billion luxury hotel complex on an island off the coast and another development on a peninsula that is home to sensitive wetlands — have generated concerns about conservation and transparency.MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.livehttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Good morning you are watching D-Program with Ted Raul and Jamarlem Thomas. It is Thursday, June 4th, 2026. And thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for liking, following, and sharing the show. Just this morning's schedule, we are going to do DMs. We're going to do D-Program until from 9 to 10. So if you're watching the live hour, please put in your questions into the YouTube and Rumble chats. and we will answer those questions as best we can. Those are going, so priority is going to go to the Rumble Rants and the Super Chats. Thank you very much for your generous support for the show, which we obviously desperately need in order to keep it going.

10 o'clock, TMI show with Manila Chan and myself for a lighter side of the news. Cartoonist Marjan Satrapi, who did Persepolis, has died at the age of 56. we will be covering that on the DMZ America podcast with myself and fellow cartoonist Scott Stantis at the 11 o'clock hour in just about two hours from now. Good morning, JT. How are you doing? I know I just saw you over on your own show, about 15. How are you doing? How are you doing, man?

You're done okay. It's good. It's funny how like, you know, it's a, it's funny. It's a different how the dynamic changes, right? Like, it's just the two of us talking. but the context of the different shows just makes it like different. Yes, yeah, because my audience prefers foreign policy. I've come to realize that, like, unless it's something like significant.

Like we could talk about, for example, in context of foreign policy, we could say, like we did on the show, we were talking about Israel, ceasefire, the war powers resolution. Okay, that stuff is permissible, right? But if it's something small or something like that, the context changes. No, it's a difference between shows. Well, also, I think there's the context, though, like, when it's your show, I'm being interviewed. So I'm just waiting to see what you have to say, and I'm just trying to answer your questions, as opposed to co-hosting is different entirely.

Yeah, we're just talking. Right, right, right, right. Right. Yeah, it's different. It is so, it is so interesting. All right. So, all right, so let's move on. Just a reminder, people have been asking about this. So if you, are on Rumble, you can just do this through Rumble. Sorry, if you're on YouTube, you can do this directly. You can subscribe to the show for $5 a month, and we appreciate that recurring membership because the steady cash flow is obviously very helpful. I mean, not that the standalone donations aren't also very helpful. A dollar is a dollar is a dollar, but although these days, a dollar is 90 cents is 80 cents. Then, and if you pay $20 a month, we thank you in the

closing credits and we're very appreciative. And if you pay a whopping $50 a month for the month, then you get to be, participate in the exclusive private chat. You can do all that through YouTube. It's pretty straightforward. If you have any questions about that, let us know in the chats. But on Rumble, you can't do it that way, but we still want to invite you to be part of it. Obviously, you can subscribe to Rumble. That's not a problem. But for the $20 and the $50 thing, you would have to send the money via PayPal, deprogram podcast at gmail.com. We probably have other ways we can receive the money,

but right now that's the easiest for us. And if you do the recurring membership, then just email Robbie at West Glacier Gaming at Gmail, and he'll make sure that you end up on the list for whatever benefit you've signed up for. Okay. We have basically, we're going to, the War Powers Act is the main,

story of the day. Congress basically forced to vote, and it went through the House of Representatives. The House of Representatives has voted to require Donald Trump to either stop attacking Iran, bring the troops home, or to go to Congress for approval. I'm not convinced that they would deny that approval if he were to go to them. Now the question is whether this goes on to the Senate, and if it does go on, passes the Senate, whether he would, whether Trump's veto, which is a certainty, whether it would have legal standing, and we can talk about that. Israel and Lebanon have agreed, not coincidentally, to a full ceasefire for the time being. We'll talk about that. The Albania story, which sort of was percolating up yesterday's show, has blown up. It's now all

over the place. Jared Kushner wants to develop luxury properties on the Albanian coast. It's a beautiful place. Actually, it's like the other side of Adriatic from Italy, right? So those even, but the problem is there's class and environmental concerns about this. It's a $1.4 billion luxury hotel complex in one of the world's poorest countries. And so people, Europe's poorest countries. And their people are pissed and they don't feel like not only are you you know going to be extracting wealth from our country you're going to be fucking up our environment which already has you know a post-soviet legacy to be dealt with so anyway where shall we start i got to be on let's start with albania even though the story matters the least it's one that it's me just because i was there so i don't know exactly

okay so i was on the coast i was in valour um it is i'm trying to describe it. Imagine if there's part of it that's very luxury-esque. Like for one, it's inexpensive because it's a poor country in regard to the Europe standards. But it gives you this flavor of Europe, but a

more hard-boiled Europe. I know that doesn't make sense. But if you see it, it will make sense. I've been there. Yeah, I know what you mean. You get this feeling of Europe, but it's a poorer Europe, if that makes sense. Depending upon which part of

that you're in, you can be in the old city, which looks old. It meaning it feels ancient. It feels old, et cetera, like the materials, the way the buildings look, those type of things, even though it's still functional. But if you're on streets, you're in a difficult place to be sometimes in a way that the traffic, the way that the cities, it looks like Europe, but it's not entirely like Europe. And I know that's hard to explain, God, that's hard to explain. That said, though, when you get to the coast, it's gorgeous.

Absolutely gorgeous. It's just oceans, resorts, et cetera, et cetera, all throughout almost like just down an entire boardwalk. It's gorgeous. So I can understand wanting to develop it. A, it's inexpensive in the context of, let's say, the rest of Europe, let's say, instead of being, let's say, like Greece or Spain. It's much more inexpensive. You still get the coastline.

I don't know. I thought that by any, it was beautiful, frankly. In fact, I thought it was this not overly touristy veneer that even made it work better. It has this, look, it has this recent history, right? I mean, it had a communist dictator for many years. It was part of the Soviet bloc. back when I was 10 years old or so I got to visit it my my mom's best friend who was a very quirky French woman she was a committed left-wing far communist you know total communist and she used to

complain that the Soviet Union and communist China then under Mao Tse Tung had sold out to the capitalists and that only Albania was really doing it right and she used to vacation there And so she convinced my mom and I'd like to come visit the people's paradise. So we went with her. And I remember we went to the beach. And it was very interesting and very strange. One thing that was very interesting was that on the U.S. passport at the time, there was a short list of countries that Americans were not permitted to visit using the passport.

And Albania was one of them. Really? So, yeah, so we traveled on a French passport. And like the thing is that it was like, but it was very funny. It was like, it was like, I believe it was North Korea, North Vietnam, Albania, and I'm probably missing one more. But, and so it was like, it really felt like even though you're in Europe, you're going to this very different, very strange place. And that's not true about like, you know, I mean, I haven't been to Eastern Europe.

But I mean, I've been to, you know, I've been to Russia. And it's like, Russia is not. as different from France as Albania is from France. I mean, it's like, it's different, you know. Yeah. It's its own thing. It's actually cool. And I think it's like, I enjoyed it.

Like I said, I loved it. Like, when I was there, it was kind of this feeling like, wow, this is Europe, but it feels different. It just feels different. I don't know how to explain it. Like, there's an old, Europe in and of itself has an old sense to it. So don't get me wrong. But like when you're in places and it's like gravel, construction, it looks more worn, that type of stuff. But, but to me, that just makes it feel,

I don't know, it makes me feel, it feels honest. It feels like it's, it's hard boiled, but it's not bad. It's, I don't know, it's, this is my explanation is failing miserably here. Well, that's how I feel about the former Soviet Union, like, the like the Central Asian republics. I love them because of that. I mean, they feel more real. They feel more real. Maybe that's the word for it. It doesn't feel touristy. It doesn't feel fake. Like, for example, Sharmio Shet versus Dahab feels more real. Sharmel Shet feels like a tourist attraction. I prefer the place that feels more real. And I don't mean it feel more real like you're going to get mugged. I don't mean it that way. I just mean it feels like something that's lived in as

as opposed to something that is purely a tourist attraction. Turning Albania into that is not, I would argue it's not a positive. I mean, there's all sorts of construction and everything that's already taken place. And you already have this kind of tourist element, especially on the beach and what's facing the water. But the moment that you get to like Old Town and you get to some of the other interior of it, I loved it. I thought it was great. totally someone's complaining that they're not finding the program podcast at gmail in PayPal I literally just checked it's there you got a I don't know I don't know what to say

all right anyway um okay so yeah I thought I thought that way about Baku also like Baku felt like Europe, even though it's not part of the European Union. It just felt like Europe. Yeah, I loved Baku, even though it was fucking hot as balls. I tried to say longer. I tried, like, I loved it so much I tried to say. I met the, for one, the women there are breathtaking. The black hair works. Oh, the jet black hair. Oh, the jet black hair. Oh, the jet black hair works. And I ended up finding a chess club there where the woman was brother, it was the sister to the second strongest player

in the world. She owned the entirety of the chess club. It was fantastic. I was like, I'm at home. It's kind of like driving me crazy. We can't like, we can't be, yeah, it's deep program podcast at Gmail. I promise.

It is. Anyway. I think you're lying. Yeah. I hate tech shit. Anyway, all right. We'll work on that. But try again. Okay, Greg.

Please, please, please. Okay, some questions here. Blake, Ted is the coolest gay dude on the entire internet. Let's go. Thank you very much. Albania says, Anomanderic, Albania is known for human trafficking. That's why it's important to NATO Nazis. It is.

I never said it was a perfect country. Well, what is? The Albanian mafia is. is savage, very dangerous to do business with. I don't understand what any U HNWs would be doing there. Yeah, don't fuck around with those mobsters in those countries. I went because I needed to cut expenses after the company went belly out. Yeah.

I found rent for $300. I booked a state for two months. And then I found another place for $300 in Malaysia. Now, I remember when you were global hopscatching, did, you know, do you feel like, would you do that again? Did you feel like it was a smart? I had no plans of coming back to the states. To be honest, like the next place I was supposed to go to was Boutina, Georgia, and an American could stay there for a year.

You could stay in Albania for a year also, but the issue became cost. Because the entire point of the trip was cost. It was how do I cut expenses? In fact, the matter is I could cut expenses significantly and sharply by leaving the country as opposed to staying in the country. So the amount of paid for transportation, the amount of pay for transportation, the amount of food, the amount of paid for rent. All those things were dramatically less. And so I could go to Malaysia, then three months in, I'm sorry, three months in Malaysia, two months in Indonesia,

et cetera, et cetera, meaning each location I was going to, I was saving money month after month after month after month. The plan was sound. It wasn't about travel. It was about cutting costs. If it wasn't for me getting ill, I would probably be in Batimia, Georgia right now. Gotcha. Gotcha. Maybe Bluth Funk. Ted, how's your French residency coming along? Hey, I can pop on a plane tomorrow and just go to France and just live there if I want. I mean, I'm a French citizen.

But, you know, I'm here. I like it here. You know, I'm hoping not to have to. I mean, seriously, I would leave if I had to go into exile, you know, which at a certain point, look, if the elections are canceled, for example, I'm going to start to work. I'm going to be worried about. you know, if the repressive apparatus of the state, there goes Robbie with his dual citizenship needs to be banned. It's like he's just jealous, right?

Well, I don't think. Right, Robbie, you're just jealous. You're jealous. No, you can't be loyal to two countries at the same time. You've got to pick one. I'm not loyal to anyone. So citizenship means that you, that you're vested in on that country. That means that's your, your last.

to the mast. I mean, that's like saying that that pig in Florida, Randy Fine, is solely loyal to the United States or Brian Mast. He's all in. The head with his IDF uniform. You can't. You know, it's when there's a conflict between two countries. That's an issue. It would be hard to be loyal to say the U.S. Are you saying that France and America never have conflicts? They have conflicts. There's never disagreements. Francis, as you would say, a vassal state of the United States. Oh, France is totally a bitch of the United States.

That's part of the problem. So, I mean, the best thing that all of Europe could do would be declare independence of the United States, but you can't have a dual sense. I shouldn't agree more. Get the pacifier out. Bye. I agree they need to give her the pacifier. Well, we have the system that we have. It's like capitalism.

I would vote against it, but as long as we have it, I'd like to earn money, you know, or I need to earn money. I'm not, you know, it's not a top priority. I don't really see a problem with the dual citizenship with the exception of the military. Like, meaning the guys walking around an idea of uniforms, okay, those people are treasonous, especially if, like meaning, how do I trust you to vote in the interests of the United States if indeed you walk around in the ID of uniform? But that's different than just randau person in the country. I don't see the issue with dual citizenship in that sense.

No, I agree, obviously. P.W. Walker, elections don't matter, so no one would notice if they were canceled. No, I don't think that's true. I think elections do have consequences. We, yeah, we'll be, that part of the reason we talk about them. I also think, I mean, look, I take his point. Elections definitely don't matter as much as they ought to, and, you know, they're not responsive. But, I mean, I do think the cancellation of the elections would lead to more greater reprimals. by the state against people, critics of the state, people like us. And that would, so I mean, look, here's the thing.

In life, there's like the way you would like things to be perfectly, perfect, and in an ideal theoretical world. And then there's the reality of the life that you have to sort of survive yourself, your family, your friends, as best you can. Thus, hey, dual citizenship, that's helpful. But I totally understand the argument against it. I mean, totally. If they cancel the elections, I think all hell will bring.

You think? That would be a trivial matter. What do you think would happen? I think these calls about, I think the problem is that we've considered or had this kind of pretext of democracy. Well, let me answer it this way, because I know it sounds like I'm going around Brabohood's Bob, but I don't want to explain why. It sounds for the longest time this country has gone with the idea that we're a quote unquote democracy, that we're a representative government or whatever you want to call it, but that people had a choice and that the choice in and of itself made us somehow different and that the choice gives and confers legitimacy. The moment that you get rid of that, then all hell breaks I mean, like meaning the entire point of Clinton not challenging the election and giving it to Jill

Stein kind of makes the point about we confer legitimacy of a particular candidate and of a particular government based on the vote. At the moment that that goes away, all of that legitimacy, goes away. All of the pretense of this country being a quote-unquote representative, all of that goes away. And then it becomes, okay, well, what replaces that? And if that's negative aggression, naked repression, then I think the oppositional forces in the country itself becomes significant. Like, if Donald Trump would have declared himself king of America when he tried to overthrow the government, would country, with other states or certain states, let's say would California and Washington state have, recuse themselves, like meaning what they have said, we have nothing to do with us. We are independent. It could have. And it could have done so legitimately, considering that at that point, the government is no longer legitimate. It's kind of like Ukraine.

The moment that you overthrow the government of Ukraine, the legitimacy of whatever representative government goes away. And you get the regions that decide to break away because from their point of view. And truthfully, the government is no longer legitimate. the deal that we've had the social contract has just been destroyed. All bets are off. I think we're in the world of fuckery at that point. Tell me if you think of wrong on this. Well, look, I agree with everything you just said. I guess the question is what would the American people actually do about it? Would there be protests? Sure. Would there be protests violent

enough to threaten the government into feeling that they needed to change? anything I'm not I don't believe that I think I mean I think they would they the machinery of repression would be increased critics would be rounded up and silenced and you know we would just disintegrate into a fascist type state would see from the Union that's good question I mean I don't know maybe and eventually and I think I mean look, the thing is over time, anything is possible, right? There could be a violent resistance that would ultimately cause parts of the country to peel off.

That I could see. But the repression of the initial impulse of the Trump administration in this case would be great, you know, to send in the military, militarized ice, you know, ramp up the gulags, you know, put people, shove people away. That's what they would want to do. I mean, it would be their first, you know, like self-preservation of the regime at all cost would be their move, right? Agreed. Yeah. I just think that the consequences, especially long term, will be devastating. Oh.

You can need a pretense. You need a pretense. Like, meaning even if you notice, they never do things nakedly. No dictator, no tyrant, no country. I mean, North Korea calls themselves democratic. Right? Kim John Moon is a Democratic leader. It's like, okay, sure it is.

Like, no country does this stuff with honesty. They never have. They never do. Human beings, we don't act that way for whatever particular reason. Even when everybody knows that you're blind, they still lie. And so the moment that you get rid of that fig leaf, you know, the president shows this penis to the world. Okay, that's a little rough. Right?

Like, meaning, I don't have to now pretend. What can the world do about it? I mean, they can decide to do basically as little business as possible with us, interact as little as less as possible. You know, it's like what does a resident of Washington or New York or San Francisco do when they see a crazy person like shadowboxing of the street? They sort of keep walking. We try to ignore them.

That's what the rest of the world would do about us. Yeah. Well, I'm talking about ESPO. I shouldn't have said to the world. The president shows his dick to the America. Okay, that's pretty heavy. Right. Like, that's overturning the entire pretext or the pretense of white America claims itself to be.

Totally. And it's just at that point nakedly saying, we're no longer having elections. On December 20, 2000, when the Supreme Court illegally ruled to turn over the, to hand the election to George W. Bush, I remember opening my window. I lived right on the way, way, way on the upper west side of Manhattan. My apartment was on a park that looked down over Harlem. And I opened the windows. And I was waiting to see if I would hear any yelling or from this very Democratic city,

any breaking windows, any car alarms, nothing. And I remember just thinking, there wasn't even so much as a protest demonstration. And that was a coup d'et ta in a very contested election. Nobody did anything. See, it was done under the idea of the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court oftentimes is given this of legitimacy in a way that I don't think the Trump administration would be able to get if the Trump administration at some point just said,

you know, I think elections are over with. Yeah, well, there would be, I mean, I think things would get spicy. The question is how spicy would they go? That's spicy, right. Yeah, I definitely They should burn a White House down. Agreed. I mean, I'm just saying great.

I can be done again. Let's see. All right, so let's get to a few comments here. Hey, Greg, thank you very much for the $10 donation. Let's see. Zach Dicast. I listened to this channel just to brush up on my politics when I was like 15 years old,

especially listening to Ted. Thank you so much. Nothing like making you feel young again. There's a lot of shuddering and cringing involved. Okay. Thank you. You know, whatever brings in the clicks. John D. Cackefeller, thanks for the donation.

Robbie, your mission should you choose to accept it is to get JT off chess and into BG3. Guaranteed Gail or Willfan. JT, nothing would happen. The U.S. population is too docile. Ted, what's up, handsome? I don't know, QT. I don't know. I hope we aren't get do so.

especially if it's something like that. Like that would be a shock to the conscience. At least I think it would be. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is me being too optimistic. I think you're the moment they're going to say elections are over with. Elections are. What's the point of them?

Yeah. I mean, seriously, if you, if your candidates are the people who are selected by the donor class and you get to pick turd A or turd B and they're paid for by the exact same people. And then you elect that said turd, and then you put that turd in the punch bowl. Are you surprised that your Kool-Aid tastes like crap? Nothing ever changes. That was Thomas Massey's moral sin, is that he refused to play that game, and he got taken out. And as far as the states go, they should succeed. But the problem is, is that with the creation of the National Guard, the states ceded their ability to raise their own militaries.

It's just like Europe. I mean, for example, here in Montana, they passed a law that is called the Montana Intrastate Freedom Act, which meant that you could make a fully automatic rifle, based on machine gun here in the United States, here in Montana, it would be legal because it's interesting. How the, how the Logan Act works is that they ban, they ban those guns based on interstate commerce. Well, if this gun is made in Montana and stays in Montana, then the interstate clause doesn't apply. So then the feds threatened to pull the highway funds and Montana buckled. That's how it is with all the states now. They bribe you with your own money.

They have no power. They have no way of saying no. The 17th Amendment is the most destructive force ever because that broke the power of the state to actually stand up to the federal government. federalism is dead. The elections don't matter. It's a facade. It's just like, no, when Augustus, when he overthrew the Republic, he had abolished the Senate. The Senate just kept on going for another hundred years.

It was maintaining the facade. That's all this is, is a joke. The facade is the point. Yeah. I'm saying that the facade matters. People are so drugged up now. People have even agreed with all an American even is anymore. We can't agree on what a man or a woman is.

I mean, you walk around, you have people who just drugged out of their minds, drunk, stoned. The population is completely hopeless. If you cancel elections tomorrow, you don't have some people squawking, but there's not going to no one's going to care. They say, at least now they're being honest. I get the turd, a, turd B thing. Fair enough. And I agree with you.

And I agree even that most things don't change in the context of elections because the things that people care about, war, how money is allocated. As you point out, immigration. jobs, the amount of money people make on those jobs, health care. These things don't change. But people still have this illusion of choice. And I'm saying the illusion is there for reasons. It's not trivial. The illusion matters. It's kind of like the matrix. It's like the problem in this choice. You want to get people this pretending that they get a choice. I think it matters more for geopolitics than domestic politics, though.

it becomes very important when that choice is moved. The reason that these guys don't go after the electoral system as being fraudulent up to the point of Trump was because the illusion of choice mattered. Like that's not a trivial thing. That's what I'm trying to get across. The moment that you let people know, A, you don't have a choice. B, these people aren't legitimate. And C, anything that you do in the context of these people not being legitimate is fair game because they're not legitimate.

the legitimacy is the point, even if it's the illusion of legitimacy. I hope that makes sense. On some level political theory, like this idea that you have this kind of negative aggression allows for negative aggression. It's the reason why they didn't want to kill kings and queens because they didn't want to think that kings and queens could be killed. The moment that you kill one, you've made the point that you can do so. If they remove that, all bets are off.

That's all I'm saying. Whether that takes place in one week or whether that takes place, in two years is irrelevant to the point. I don't think that it matters domestically. I think that we keep this facade of republicanism, small are alive or democracy, if you would. How? It's just don't get rid of elections.

How? How do you do that? Like, do you see North Korea as being a democratic country? Sure. So does you vote for the right person? It's like the Soviet Union. Vote forever you want. So does they're a communist?

There's no election in North Korea? Kim Jong-Lah. leader. Yeah, that was a joke. Yeah, no, the point that I'm making is that we get the facade of elections going not for domestic politics, but for international politics. That way, we can wag our finger at those dirty Russians or other people say, you're not, you're not a democratic society. Well, neither are we. No, but we're postulating that they get rid of elections. And the argument that it sounds like you got to make it is that nothing will change. Nothing will change a little bit, but for all all that it's purposes. The domestic politics, nothing would change. We have elections for foreign

consumption, not American consumption. I think you're both right. We have to be like to be a consumption. We don't give a shit with people. You guys are not in conflict with each other. So, I mean, Robbie's right. There would be no, you know, there would be no uprising. I mean, what you would like to think is, you know, five million Americans take to take up arms, take it to the streets, overthrow the government, install, reinstall democracy. That's not going to happen. JT's right, too. The legitimacy of the state, the veneer, the facade, it matters. It affects people. And like maybe people, they go to work and they obey and they pay their taxes and they still call President Trump president, even though

he's not president really under the rules that they set up themselves. But in their minds, they walk around with their fingers crossed behind their backs. They kind of don't believe in any of it. And it's all hollow. And that means it's like an eggshell and it's like basic with nothing inside and it's like ready to crack at any time. It's weak. There's nothing really there. But you're both right. You know, the facade matters

but also the, but we're also not going to see to rebel. They don't. Yeah, click. It may not be overnight. And by the way, the state's argument, look, just because you write something down, doesn't mean it matters.

Like, it matters up to the point that it doesn't. Because like we have a nuclear treaty for space. Do you think that should matter if we're at war, world war? It's not that Russians are going to launch a nuke and destroy all of our satellites with the EMP the moment that that shit pops up. Because it's not going to matter the moment that we get into some kind of conflict. I'm saying the same thing is true for states. They will find guns. They will find weapons.

They will find the ability to deal with an oppressive government, especially if you're talking about California somewhere that's way to the west. I just don't have this belief that they can pull that shit off where they're like, yeah, well, there are no more elections. And everything just keeps going the way it goes. I really think because here's here's right to push back on this. I'll go away because I know that this is going off the rails. People want stability more than anything else. Without stability, you can't have a house, you can't have a job, you can't have an economy, you can't have anything. True.

And so I think that as is that as the United States becomes more, and more chaotic internally with our politics, with our economy, as things just fall apart, people will sacrifice everything for order. That's the point that I'm making. And what they're going to do is that they will create it, to quote Rahm Emanuel, never let a crisis go to waste. As a self-governing people who cannot govern them, who cannot govern their own home, cannot govern a nation.

As things implode, as things fall apart, part that what you're going to see is that the, is that the cry for order is going to be such that if elections are suspended, no one is going to care. That's the point that I'm making. This is nothing more than the joke. When Caligula, when he appointed his horse as a console, how is that any different than Pete Higgs-F

being our Secretary of War? This is a serious question. Who's smarter? Or Pete Hickseth. Which one has an actual use? The horse was useful, yeah. Of course. Right, a horse.

All this is, all this is, all this is is a puppet show. Trump's time running the country. It's his donors that are running the country. It's people who paid his, who paid his legal bills for running the country. It's the bankers in Tel Aviv who are running the country. Let's just be honest about this. The American Republic is dead. It's been dead since the 1960.

I argue died in 1865. Look, I don't have an issue. making the case that we are bought as a country by basically people who effectively pay this kind of that politicians are intermediaries between the rich like basically a deal is made between the wealth of the nation and the population and the politician is kind of intermediate between these two i don't have an issue with that point my basic point is not untouched or is unmolested the pretense of a representative government matters. And they fight hard for that idea of legitimacy of the population,

not just in the U.S., but all across the world in all of these countries, and that there's a reason what even repressive governments calls themselves, quote unquote, democratic, is because they want the idea that they have legitimacy of the population. If you lose that and you basically blow that away, there are consequences for that. Yeah, you're hitting a spike. I'm the main point.

Yeah, that's the point that I'm making. But here's the difference though. Could you make the argument that Gaddafi cared more about the living people than the American government cares about the American people? I could. Because he was invested in building up his nation. He was invested in educating his population. This is a debate that we had on the old Discord channel yesterday. You know, some people are going after me about my stance on H-1B.

So, well, we've got to have these people because, you know, The American educated, the American peoples are uneducated. Well, sure they are. But you don't need to educate your population. One, if you can import educated people who are paid for by taxpayers from other countries. Second, an educated population is harder to control. This is all by design. This is all by design.

And our government breaks us. You're preaching to the choir. 100%. And it doesn't touch my point. It does. Elections do not freaking matter. Nothing ever changes. Always good, John McGrath.

I'm not the argument that elections change things in the overt sense of the word. My argument is that the pretense of those elections matter, meaning it's the fig leaf of democracy. But the fig leaf matters. It's not an irrelevant tool. It's not a bug. It's a feature of it. The idea that it confers legitimacy on a particular person, whether the person is going to do something or not, is irrelevant. But the show always comes to an end.

People all the time that are full of shit. Trump was full of shit. Obama was full of shit. Bush was full of shit. Clinton was full of shit. You can go down the list. None of these people did things. You brought up Rome earlier, right? I mean, so the, I mean, the trap, the idea that it was, you know, the Senate and the people of Rome, right? SPQR. I mean, you know, all for centuries after the overthrow of the Republic, you know, the Roman statesmen and citizens kept asserting that either they were still a republic or that they were going to become a republic again anytime soon and that this imperial thing was just a temporary interregnum. And but like, so you could say, okay, looking back with the benefit of hindsight and especially

when, you know, Roman senators and emperors started having funny German names, you might say, okay, that's all, it was all bullshit. Okay, well, now it was, it was all bullshit. But At the time, it meant stuff to people. And they thought it was real. And it motivated them. It incentivized them. It made them believe in the state. It's kind of like, you know, the days after the overthrow of Nazi Germany, and people would

walk through the streets and they'd see bundles of, you know, German Reichmarks just like litter on the street. You know, this used to be worth a lot. Now it's not worth anything. Why? What changed? You know, people just stopped. believing that they mattered.

So, like, you're right, Robbie. It's bullshit, but also, I guess, you know, Gibral's right, too. Bullshit matters. Yeah, totally. I'm not making the argument that with these, look, I'm not making an argument, nor have I ever made the argument,

that what these guys are doing is to the best interests of the American public. That's not the case I'm making here. So I get what you're saying, Robbie. I'm not disagreeing with you. The point that I'm making is this pretending, the illusion of it. matters.

How meaning the illusion is what people respond to. I've made the argument, power is a shadow in the wall. Okay, well, what does that mean? It means people respond to where they think power is. Part of the reason that Iran didn't respond as strongly as they've been doing recently is because they didn't necessarily fully grasp America's power and what they could do in the context of a war and they didn't want to be in a war. Whereas now what did they're doing.

He's hitting American faces, left and right, because they realized America can't do what we might have thought that they could do. might have thought that they could do. They put their ante up and they fail miserably in the context of their anti. Power being a shadow on the wall. Okay, well, now it's been exposed for what it is. I'm saying the same thing is true for the illusion of democracy or the illusion of a representative government. People will conform to what they believe is true, not necessarily what is true. So the fact that these people have been screwing them over left and right, it still goes under the idea of the pretense of a democratic choice. No, I get it. And listen, I agree with everything you just now said. What I'm saying is that there will come a point where the show no longer

matters. Oh, true. And when that comes, they're going to stop wasting time on the whole idea of having elections. For example, let's just say, let's just pull hypothetical. Let's just take Ted's nightmare scenario that Trump cancels the elections. Well, what would be the pretext? The radical leftists, the communists are trying to go over and they're going to try to loot Medicare. And so in order to save the entitlements, in order to save the boomers, we've got to. got to suspend the elections because this is existential or those Iranians what they're going to do or they're going to they're going to hack all the voting machines and the the institutions themselves are compromised and we have to suspend these elections till they get fixed basically just pull the

Zelensky model it's a perfect democracy it's incredibly stable because without elections you're not to worry about no worry about chaos right if that works over there why can't it work here it will that's what that's the point that I'm making it's a show and eventually the show will end. All Hollywood movies come to an end, even the good ones. Gone with the wind. No longer, it doesn't play anymore. All I'm pointing out is that the moment that that comes to an end in earnest where people are clear that it comes to an end, I think all hell breaks loose. I don't think it will. I think you want to have a stable country. In fact, I think a country that has more guns than people becomes very unwieldily, very quick when these guys no longer have legitimacy. I hope that you're

right. Seriously, I hope that you're right and I hope that I'm wrong. I just think that the population's too drug, too stoned, and too hopeless to care. Oh, can we just organize? Really bad. And there's no left, and the left is the only thing that could save us. Or the Christian right. No, you can rally either way. You know, just like, you can have fascists takeover.

In fact, I would probably go with the fascist take over as opposed to the left. There is no left. No, there's no left. Yeah. I mean, I've just got to pick something. But I'll go away now. Bye. Oh, good.

All right. So let's do some comments. Mr. A. Lee, the U.S. needs a long march, Mao style, and gather up all U.S. peasant American peasants to march on the capital. Well, they can't literally be peasants because all our agraria, agribusiness has eaten up all our peasants. But, yeah, the working class and the poor. Yeah, that'd be awesome.

John D. Cackefeller, the response to no elections would be the exact same as the response to no Epstein files, being ruled by Petos, Trump's, pun intended, canceled elections, and yet the White House hasn't burned. E.L. 43, I think Robbie brings up an interesting point on the addiction of society. However, it's probably a symptom, not the cause of a broken system. I think it's... Adam Tube, special interest in Israel by the legislative, then the executive, Judiciary follows. We us Americans become the milked cow.

How is that sovereign, freedom and democracy, republic we stand? We can't stand. If you so, thanks for the dollar. What would happen to democracy, communism, racism, all the isms when the aliens finally show up? Do we become humans or still kill each other? That's an interesting question, by the way. It is an interesting question. Like, meaning what is humanity when it realizes it's not alone?

And do we just become humans? Like, would I go, let's like, do we recognize the common threat? Exactly. Yeah. What does humanity mean in that context? That's a fascinating question. That is a fascinating question. And considering David Brush is going to be out here doing White House a call for transparency

on the issue of UFOs starting, I think Friday, he's going to be the Capitol. I've even thought about going to the Capitol to see it. Do you know David Greshers? David Greshers, one of the whistleblowers that recently came out. No, I don't. Yeah. So A-TIP, AWAS was the government program. A-WAS was the government program to study strange phenomena. A-TIP was a subsection of that program, ran by Lou Al-A-Lizando, one of the people who was involved in looking at those files was David Gresh. He was also one of the investigators that was in the program. These are the guys who put out the Pentagon videos, the Tick-Tac, Go Fast, and I forget the other one.

But basically, Gresh was involved in that program. Gresh is coming out of the shadows and effectively saying, look, A, there were crash retrievals, B, there were bodies, and C, the government needs to come clean. So we'll see. Yeah, I mean, the thing is the closest thing to a planet-wide threat that we've faced is climate change. And we have not gotten. Well, I mean, much of the world has somewhat agreed to at least be on the same page about it. But we've really, the United States has not joined in.

We really fucked it up. Let's see. FUSO, read Federalist Papers No. 10 from the beginning. the elites divide us to maintain their power. Okay, I don't know which one is number 10. F-you-so, U.S. elections are a sci-op on Americans to make us feel like we have a stay and to stay investment, invested, and not revolt.

Yes. I concur. By the primaries, same thing. Like, in the Democratic primaries, where they cheated Sanders, all of it was legal. The Democrats don't need to have primaries. No, they don't need primaries. They can just give you a candidate.

It's like... The two parties are private corporations. Courts have repeatedly ruled this. They can set any rules they want. They could say our nominee is going to be the person with 16 letters in their name. And, yeah, and... Yeah, it's like, Bob Cobb is a great guy who's like, who the hell is Bob Cobb? The person we chose.

That's what Bob is. Right, right. Yeah, they... They're not required to have a primary. They just do it because they want you to buy in. Yep. Yeah, that's right. And in some cases, they kind of don't do a primary sometimes, right?

I mean, they cancel them all the time. It's not really that uncommon. Adam 2, Iranians will not hack anything. All threats are domestic and Israeli loyalists. Yeah, I don't think the Iranians are going to hack anything. They don't need to. Like, why? Why?

John D. Cockfeller, no, we kill the aliens. I hope you're right. That is something that some of the people have come on and said, Barbara, specifically. The UFO thing is getting very weird. That's all. It's getting very weird. I'm not even going to go into it. And it's not that it's entirely weird.

It would be weird for the American public, especially when you get into the conscience and stuff, because that seems to be something that runs through it all the way through, this kind of, oftentimes when people are thinking of the subject, they're thinking of it in materialistic forms. Oh, there's a craft. There's a metallic object. That object is doing things that is breaking our physics.

But the people who are on the inside of it also talk about this conscious element where they are in contact with these things in some fashion. It's wild, but it's, it will be a hell of a reveal to the American public. I put it that way if they come up with it. Do we care about the new, the Todd Blanche being, nominated for Attorney General. I don't know if it matters. If I'm being bluntly honest.

I mean, like, what is Top Latch going to do? I mean, we've just had this kind of big argument over the shit not mattering. Right? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, what is Todd Blanche going to do that some other Randolph that he puts in wouldn't do? Yeah. I don't think it really makes any difference, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

No, no, it's definitely. I mean, it's what is. I guess I'm trying to ask for significance because I don't know Todd Blanche as a political actor, what I would know significance. So I don't want to downplay it if there's some level of significance to it. Yeah, yeah. And then the other, I mean, I think also we probably would be remiss not to talk about Congo and Ebola. It looks like the, you know, the, first of all, the, I don't know if we would call it an epidemic yet. but I think you could.

It's not a pandemic yet. But Ebola is spreading. It's spreading to the extent now that there aren't even enough facilities and workers to monitor it. So we're not really clear on the scale of it because this is happening in remote parts of the eastern part of the country, which are embroiled in civil conflict and corrupt mine operations and everything. It's like the ghost of King Leopold lives, right? And I guess the thing is the blame game is going to start as soon as some Americans start to die, right? They're going to say, well, this is Trump's fault.

USAID was closed. USAID used to have those workers to monitor it. That's how you would have been able to get control of the situation early on. The right's going to say, well, you know, they're going to have racist explanations. that's because in Congo, they sleep with their dead, and it's like they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. I guess my thing is, why is this a U.S. concern?

I don't mean, I'm saying a dick about it. And I mean, when I'm saying a dick about it, I just mean I don't mean to be obtuse about it. Sure, we should help, but why is this our, the U.S. issue? It's a global concern, right? I mean, any disease can go anywhere, obviously. Sure. But shouldn't it be, if it's a global concern, shouldn't it be a global matter?

Right. Like, meaning this idea that the United States is God, emperor, and in control of this stuff, and it's somehow our blame one way to another. It's a WHO issue, which means it's not our concern since we're not in the WHO anymore. I mean, I can't even believe that. That's amazing. Right? I mean, it's so incredibly stupid.

And all of this for COVID. All of this for COVID. He didn't like the response for the WHO on the issue of COVID. Yeah, that's dumb. Again, when I point out degradation, it's stuff like this. This is degradation. You can look at the dumbing down of our presidents. You can look at the dumbing down on our policies,

the inability for us to kind of even deal with real things. And again, I would imagine you need real elections to deal real things. But yeah, us being out the WHO is insane. As you point out, barrises, these things go all around the world. We obviously have a presence in dealing with help around the globe. Yeah, just to share information with every other country. I mean, it's scientists don't believe in these international borders. This comment from Mateo is relevant to this discussion. The DNC literally just shoved Kamala in there without a primary. Don't need to look back. Well, what's the relationship here? You know what I would like, you know, a democratic, all democratic

candidates for president to say, to promise, we will systematically look at everything Trump did, and we will pretty much reverse it all, you know, with few exceptions. I mean, you know, I'm sure there's a few things here or there that should stay. But for the most part, like things like pulling out of the WHO. Just we're going to sign an executive order on January 20th. It's just going to be sign, sign, sign, sign, auto pen. Like, just get them done.

Like, just, I mean, it drives me crazy that, like, you can vote a maniac like Donald Trump out of office, maybe vote him out. And then you don't have any reasonable assurance that the Democrats will reverse these actions. Joe Biden left a lot of Trump's first term shit in place. that's why we have that idiotic space force is still a branch of the armed forces. You know, I mean, it's a lot, I can go through lots of tax stuff that Trump did remained in place under Biden. I mean, there's no, why, I mean, this all goes to the discussion about like the, you know, you know, what Robbie and you were talking about.

It's, it's all window dressing. What's the fucking point of even voting for another party if the other party isn't even going to change, policy. Yeah. No. Agreed. A thousand percent agreed. And I mean, root and branch, like, and claw back some of the stuff that he's done also, meaning the deals, the money that he's been able to claw all of it. It just we're taking it all back. We're unraveling these policies, et cetera. I agree with you. Will they do that? That's not typically what they do. I mean, when Obama got in office, he took up, what, 80, 90, percent of George Bush tax cuts. The people obviously weren't going to get their homes back from, that went belly up under Obama.

And, yeah, it's unfortunate. Obama's very first day, I believe it was. His first thing he did was to go to Bethesda, go to Langley and assure the torturers that they weren't going to be prosecuted. Yep. Yep. I'm standing in front of you. What is it?

standing, protecting you from the pitchforks or something that was being said. Yeah. Like, no, man, I agree with you. But that's not really what we get. And I guess my hope, my fervent hope, and I know it's hope. So put it in proper context of not ultimately mattering. It's that the market public gets fed up. Like at some point they realize, wait a minute, we're being fucked.

We're being fucked. We're being fucked royally. I don't even feel the Vaseline. I mean, at least use Vaseline. Like, like, and they get that in a root, in a flesh to bone way, in a way that alters the politics. I just don't see that happening. And oftentimes when you talk to people, it's this dead-eyed, you know, so what? You're not supporting my candidates, so you're for Harris or you're for Trump?

And it's like, why is that the only political methodology that you guys can come up with? Like, that is the limits of your political horizon. they're fucking you over. It's like, why? And oftentimes they don't see it. And this goes to Robbie's point. Many people just prefer stability. And you have a political system in a way that's so,

that shields people from the mechanics of what goes on. Meaning they don't know why their life is the way it is. They think it's entirely related to them, that it is purely their responsibility. That's in the fact that they're within the context of a system in a larger order. And that larger order dictates the contours that they operate them. They don't see it that way.

They don't see it. They go from generation to generation. And as you get older, you get contacts. But you get a 20-year-old who comes into the system, and it's going to have to learn the same things that you've learned over the course of your life. And then by the time they get to 40 and 50, they realize, oh, right, we're in the system. We're being fucked. It's too late.

20-year-old. I think that China is more. of a republic know what we are and here's what i'm going to say this it is a one party is a one party country and i've thought about this a lot in china and and mr lee in the chat fact check me on this because i mean you're chinese in china you cannot change the party but you can change the system here in the united states you can change the party but you can't change the system ultimately that the entire point of an election is to change the system if you can't change the system What's the point?

Well, it's a change the direction, maybe not the system, right? Well, yeah, that's what I was about to say. I don't think you could change the Chinese system either. I would argue it's a capitalist system. But you can change the direction in a country like China. Well, you can't, but someone can. I don't think anyone can. I don't think Donald Trump can change the direction here, as you pointed out.

See, I think it's a capitalist country, and I think it's the one with a capitalist country does. It's maximizing profit. I think it's just getting to be more pure at it, whereas beforehand, there was this pretense of a democracy that was around it. And look, you disagree with me on this if you want to, or disagree with me on this. The reality of it is in the capital. Human beings perfect things as a rule. If you're talking tools, if you're talking about a process, if you're talking about sports. So we develop football, people get better at football, they get more aggressive, they get stronger, they get faster, they run the ball better, we can perfect the rules, etc. But that's the same thing is true in any system that we effectively

build. If we build a capitalist system, we get better at doing business in a capitalist system. And it's just so happens that the more pure you get at one, it's kind of like Heisenberg, Heisenberg particle wave stuff. Basically, I can know the position of an electron, but I can't know the position of speed simultaneously. It's the same thing. You can't hit both. You can't have this great democratic system and this great capitalistic system, and both

of these things are working in tandem. When you perfect one, the other one diminishes. And in our case, profit is the goal. You can say the same thing that's true in the Congress. I mean, it's just a bit of a way to kind of mend the gap between those two things. But I'm saying in America, the issue is that we have a capitalist system, and that system we're getting better at. We do.

That's it for the today's show. We're running a little bit late. TMI show with Ted Rall and Manila Chan. That's me coming up right now. DMZ America podcast covering the death of cartoonist Marjane Satrapi at 11 a.m. Eastern time with Scott Stantis. Always a pleasure, J.T. I will see you tomorrow at 9 a.m.

Bye. Bye. Have my goodness. Bye bye.