DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou: “Fascism Goes to Washington”

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Is fascism coming to the streets of D.C.? That’s the big question on the “DeProgram” show with political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou today. • Trump Nationalizes D.C. Police, Sends Troops to City Streets: What hath “Big Balls” wrought? President Trump activates Section 740 of the Home Rule Act, federalizing D.C.’s civilian police and deploying 500 National Guard troops to stop crime and expel the homeless. Trump says the city is out of control but there has been a 26% drop in violent crime this year. Will Congress rubber-stamp this terrifying move? • Epstein-Maxwell Records: A federal judge rejects unsealing grand jury documents in the Epstein and Maxwell cases. Public frustration increases. Will we ever learn the truth? • Israel Assassinates 5 Al Jazeera Journalists: Israel bombs reporter Anas al-Sharif and 4 Al Jazeera journalist colleagues in Gaza, accusing him of leading a Hamas cell. There is no evidence. Press freedom groups say Israel is trying to stop the truth from coming out of Gaza. • Australia Recognizes Palestine: Australia joins the ranks of the civilized world, formally recognizing Palestine as a state. This move, joining the UK, France and Canada, redraws Middle East alliances. Fence-sitters like Germany watch as Canberra weighs backlash and support. • MTG Cashes In: Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s net worth soars to $22 million, up from $700,000 pre-Congress, tied to her many stock trades before Trump’s tariff pause. Her spicy defense prompts ethics investigations. • Trump-Putin Summit: Trump will meet Putin in Alaska to reset U.S.-Russia relations, amid Trump’s public frustration with Putin over Ukraine and speculation about carving up Ukraine. Zelensky may or may not be invited.

the D-program show for Monday, August 11th, 2025. Thank you so much for joining us. We're here Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 5 p.m. on YouTube and Rumble, as well as on audio. Thanks for everyone for liking, following, and sharing the show. And, of course, commenting and throwing in your questions. And as you guys know, we always get to as many of them as we possibly can. John, good to see you. Good to see, buddy.

And I'm seeing in the comments. that Barnes & Noble didn't go so great, huh? I'm sorry. No, it was kind of a catastrophe, and we can talk about that later. But that's OK. You know, I mean, it's like producer Robbie did its best to, and apparently they can't spell the name Ted

in Calispell, Montana. They spelled it with two D's. So that was the beginning of the trouble. So, you know, if they can't spell your name, it's like, it's not like cheers or everyone knows your name. Here they can't even spell your name. But anyway, it was funny. It's good to see you.

Given what's going on in D.C., you know, you could be in a fascist gulag right now. Donald Trump, obviously, we'll be talking about that and the D.C. police, nationalizing the police, sending the National Guard and possibly regular troops into the streets of the city, all because of big balls. The Epstein story, the Epstein-Mexwell record, are sealed. We'll talk about what that means. I'm absolutely livid about this story out of

Gaza that Israel deliberately assassinated five journalists from Al Jazeera on purpose. Yeah, on purpose. But there's going to be an investigation. That always works out so great. On the other hand, so Israel might be psyched about all the journalists they're killing, but they did lose Australia today. Australia recognized Palestine. And possibly New Zealand, which is going to make a decision in the next couple of weeks. So all the antipodes come together. And then Marjorie Taylor Green, she's a hot ticket item, man. She went from just being worth about $700,000 to, in a very short time, she's suddenly worth $22 million.

Obviously, she's just a very, very intelligent business person. We'll talk about that. And then, of course, Trump's meeting Putin. maybe Zelensky might be invited or might not be. So what shall we do first? Yeah, let's get D.C. out of the way. I made a decision today when I heard that Donald Trump was federalizing the Washington, D.C. police force and taking over police duties in Washington with the help of the National Guard, I decided, because I live three miles from the White House, I'm going to go up to every National Guardsman that I see. and I'm going to say, you should be ashamed of yourself.

If there was ever a time to stand up and say, no, now's the time, you gutless pigs. So Donald Trump has gotten it into his head that crime is out of control. Actually, he probably hasn't even gotten it into his head. He's just faking it. Excuse me. D.C. does not have a crime problem. Murders are down. Violent crimes overall are down 30.

that's a lot a lot we have no crime problem in washington right now but trump decided he's taking it over now he didn't bother to inform mayor muriel bowser he didn't bother to inform the dc police chief he just announced that he's taken it over and that's it so i look this which he can do legally he absolutely can do for a period of three days he can take it over for three days and then he has to get congressional authorization. Well, guess what? Congress isn't in session. And so remember, they all ran away so they wouldn't have to vote on the Epstein release. Hilarious. I wonder if they didn't check that. I suspect they didn't check it. And so this is a publicity stunt. Literally nothing is going to come of it. There's, you know, at the very

same time that he's sending hundreds of troops to D.C. to patrol the mean, I want to push back a little bit, John. I mean, D.C. has some sketchy parts of town that are real pit. And the homeless problem is out of control. And I'm glad you brought that up because he says that he is going to sweep the homeless off the streets. No word on what that means or where he's going to send them. Where are you going to send them? You're going to send it in Maryland? Yeah, I don't know. Right. And it doesn't make any sense. And then he also, and then there's also the story that out of Los Angeles, there's a court hearing right now, even as we speak, about the previous time, the few weeks ago when Trump sent troops there to L.A. to ice in mass deportations, you know, keeping the home, the home depot, the home depot, the home depot safe for democracy. Right. That, you know, and that looks like, very likely that the judge is going to rule that that act was illegal.

and, you know, federalizing the California National Guard. But obviously, Trump has a lot more control over D.C., at least, as you said, for three days, by declaring an emergency. I mean, I kind of hate all the laws that allow elected officials to declare kind of vaguely stated, vaguely justified emergencies just because. Yeah, just because there was a complaint from a Republican Congress. from New Jersey about this tent that is set up directly across the street from the White House at the edge of Lafayette Square. And it's a pro-Palestine, you know, pro-nuclear disarmament

kind of ongoing long-term protest. Tell you the truth, there have been tents there since I arrived in D.C. in 1982. It's just a thing. It's always been. And this congressman from from new jersey wants the secretary of the interior to take it down by force there's another one sort of a sister tent in front of union station the train station up on capital hill um and i i talked to the guy at union station last week i think i may have mentioned it on the show and i asked if he was getting any pushback from from the cops or from the the trump people and he said no he said every once in a while somebody will walk past and give him the finger. But most people, he said, are very supportive and pleasant and say encouraging things. I walked past the White House a couple of nights ago on my way to

dinner. I didn't talk to the guy that was there, but he was just sitting in a lawn chair holding a Palestinian flag. And people were taking pictures in front of the tent and then taking pictures in front of the White House. I did notice that Donald Trump ordered that a giant hole be dug in the front lawn of the White House. the north I know why and there's a gigantic flagpole there now

because we didn't have enough flags flying from the White House right there everywhere you look so now we have this one giant one like a skyscraper in the center of the of the White House lawn it's just awesome

it's going to be hilarious if it falls over during a storm and smashes into the roof and that could happen yeah so it's like one of those giant ones like that you see at the car dealership at the freeway entrance, right? Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. That's exactly what it's like. It's a giant car dealership flag. And then, you know, so DP has this question. Is this takeover of D.C. Something like a coup. Yeah. Well, this is what DeSantis did.

Remember when he took all those would-be refugees and put them on a plane to Massachusetts. Right. Which we talked about Martha's Vineyard. It's kidnapping. It's a federal crime. But yeah, I think D.P. is right. How much you want to bet? I would put money on the fact that the homeless just get herded onto buses and dropped off in New York.

I think that's probably what's going to happen. Yeah. No, it's, I mean, you know, and this is after Mayor Eric Adams sold out to the Trump administration and destroyed his chances of reelection. That's right. That is right. So I think it's, I mean, look, I think that a lot of what Trump does is always about testing the waters, right? Like he dips his toe in.

Let's see, you know, what will happen? You know, can I get away with this? As you say, I bet he knows it's three days. You know, he has lawyers. So he has more lawyers than God. And so he's got, so, you know, three, he's like, well, let's see how it goes. And if that goes okay, then maybe we can do a little more. You know, there's a story from the Goldfarber.

Daniel Goldfarber wrote this very good book. I'm sure you've read John called Hitler. willing executioners. And it's very influential and basically questions the idea that the Holocaust was basically they put a gun to my head and then they told me,

kill the Jewish guy or I kill you. And he debunks that, basically. But what's really amazing that the Holocaust was test marketed, right? Basically, they weren't sure that there wasn't going to be civil unrest. So they put spies in little towns in Poland in the cafe at the mayor's

office. And then after a big roundup, they wanted to see if there was civil unrest. If there had been civil unrest, if towns had burned, if the Gestapo had been attacked, the whole thing was going to be called off. Wancy conference, that was like part of their deal. But they wanted to see how it would go. And I think, you know, obviously there were complaints, nothing much. They were like, oh, this is fine. We can get away with it. I think that's what Trump has in mind. In the back of his mind, He's like, let's see, you know, what if I really did want to seize power? Maybe not have to run for re-election, and I can't run for re-election, but maybe I'll just stay in office. I think this is a test, test, let's just see.

Well, he said just over the weekend, Ted, that he, his words, probably won't run for a third term. Probably won't. He cannot. It is written in stone in the Constitution. there's no wiggle room there's no way around it where he runs for vice president and then Vance resigns he can't do it wait so you're right do that he can't run for vice president and Vance resigns no sir or he can run for vice president and be vice president and if Vance resigns the the the speaker of the house becomes president really yeah I think it would

I would I think it would end up tied up in the courts at that point oh it would definitely be in the courts but the constitution's clear that if the vice president cannot assume the presidency and in this case he could not assume the presidency because he's he's constitutionally barred then then the the speaker of the house becomes president interesting well yeah i mean i i perhaps naively have always believed up until now that the reason he's not that he keeps saying i might run or implies it it's just because he doesn't want to be a lame duck because he is a lame duck and so exactly i think that's all it is but that's exactly right no i think you've hit it on the head he's trying to remain as relevant as he can for as long as he

can now that's going to change after the midterm elections because then that's it it's done right there are no more elections nobody's going to have to owe him anything or kowtow to him all bets are off unless but then okay here's there's the law of unintended consequences as always which we talked about a lot on this show so what if you know he he he in his mind he knows he can't run for re-election. But, you know, he does all these shenanigans and figures out that he can get away with it. Then the thought that he might go back to the lawfare defendant role that he played before his second term, the idea that he might be warming the inside of a prison cell might make him think,

you know, maybe I do want to stay in office. And I might be able to get away with it. After all, I saw the impotence of the Democratic Party and of the press and of the non-existent, left in this country well see now that's that brings us back to the issue that so many of us struggled with four and a half years ago was does trump pardon himself it's never been done before the constitution doesn't say anything about it so legally we're unclear as to whether or not a president can pardon himself but that could be it that that he pretends like he's going to run keeps pretending like he's going to run

and then pardons himself. However, as we remember, that doesn't help with the state charges, as we know. At all. Although going out, right, he's going after, the DOJ has just opened an investigation

into a Latisha James who went after him with those, and she was viewed as having the most powerful, potent, dangerous charges against him. Yeah. Thank you, Sodon. very much let's answer so don's question and yeah thanks a lot um how do you think bbby will be remembered

jeez especially with the atrocities against journalists clearly there are two there are two answers there i think he has essentially saved himself in israel as crazy as that sounds because this is a guy that has never ever won more than 27 percent but i think in terms of public opinion at least right now in israel he's saved himself everywhere else in the world, he's going to go, in my view, he's going to go down in history with the likes of Pol Pot and Idi Amin and, what's his name, Pinochet, some of the ugliest, the darkest figures of the 20th century. Agreed. And he's going to be, but I think even domestically in Israel, once they've lost

the United States, and I think they will. I think it'll take a while, but it will. Then at that point, the Israelis are going to say, this is the guy. It's kind of like the way the Germans felt about Hitler, who still supported him, but he led them to ruin, this is the guy who ruined us. We needed the United States. We couldn't live without them. We already lost the Democratic Party.

Now we've lost the Republican Party as well. We're screwed. And no one's going to run interference for us at the UN anymore. And that's another thing, is this is the guy who has. has lost the entire Western world for Israel, right? Three weeks ago, none of the important Western countries recognized Palestine. And today, all of the important Western countries, with the exception of the United States, recognized Palestine. So if you're thinking Israeli, you have to say, even if you say, oh, I hate Palestinians and we should be crushing Gaza, you have to say, this guy is destroyed.

our country. But nobody's saying that yet. I mean, there are a couple of voices on the Israeli left. You see it in Harets, mostly, sometimes in the Jerusalem Post. But that's exactly what's happening. He's destroying Israel. He is. Yeah, I mean, he's leading them completely to total disaster.

I guess we should, it seems like a good time to talk about, I mean, we're done with D.C., but we can always come back to it. Sure. But, you know, let's talk about these journalists who were killed in Gaza. I'm absolutely blown away that this time, me, Israel's killed. You know, up until the Gaza War, I was part of the group of journalists with the highest fatality rate in the history of Western War correspondency. I was in a convoy of 45 journalists of whom, you know, only eight of us, sorry, 11 of us didn't come back. That record got totally destroyed by the Gaza War with hundreds, with hundreds, with hundreds of

of journalists deliberately targeted by the IDF. And usually they say, well, we didn't know they were journalists or they weren't wearing their vest, even though they always are, or what they didn't have ID, they always do. But this time, the IDF is literally saying, this guy was, we know that we killed him on purpose along with four of his colleagues because he led a Hamas cell. His name is Anas al-Sharif. He's a TV journalist.

If you watch Al Jazeera regularly, you saw him. And, I mean, it's like this. There's no evidence, right? Could be true. But if there's evidence, let's see it. And, you know, nobody ever pushes Israel to put up or shut up. But they're literally saying, we reserve the right to murder journalists en masse. I mean, that's a new level.

I've literally, you know, mentioned, you mentioned, mentioned some despots. I don't remember Paul Pott ever arguing that you could do that. I don't remember Saddam Hussein ever arguing you could do that. This is new. You know what? That's an op-ed right there. I worked on Iraq for the most part of 15 years at the CIA through two wars against Iraq. And Saddam Hussein hated journalists, but he never went out and killed them. Benjamin Netanyahu kills them. On purpose. on mass. That's right. I mean, he doesn't want, because he doesn't want the truth coming out.

That's right. And so, I mean, so I mentioned today, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Ted. I mentioned today to a friend of mine, I was talking to a friend of mine today about this. And I said, you know, I'm still livid about the assassination of, of Shereen Abouacla. Shereen Abu Akla was at every event in Washington. She was the top correspondent for Al Jazeera. And she was at every event. And on top of that, she was Greek Orthodox Christian.

She was a Christian Palestinian. She was in Palestine, what is it now, two years ago, I guess. And she was wearing a bulletproof vest that said press on it. And she was wearing a helmet, a Kevlar helmet that said press across it. And she was standing behind a tree to protect herself. And still, an IDF sniper shot her in the face with a long-range high-powered rifle. And then the Israelis said, oh, it was just a mistake. They thought she was Hamas.

No, she was wearing press, press gear. And then the Israeli said, oh, no, no, no, she was collaborating with Hamas. And then the response was no. She was the most important, most prominent, most famous journalist that Al Jazeera had and a Christian on top of it all. And what did the Israelis do? Her funeral was held in a Greek Orthodox church in the West Bank. The Israelis forced their way into the church in the midst of the funeral, beat the pallbearers with truncheons. and they were they were forced to drop the coffin which opened and then revealed her body.

It was it was solely to humiliate and to anger. And then BB says, well, we'll do an investigation. We'll get back to you. Now they don't even bother. Now they just kill the whole group. It's a, it's an Al Jazeera journalist and and four cameramen and producers. Just kill everybody. Because what's going to happen?

They know nothing's going to happen. The Americans aren't going to say anything. Nothing ever does. And the Americans aren't going to say a single word, not a word. John, we have an ad. I'm going to read it through very quickly. Oh, good for us. You've probably noticed Rumble is growing fast and it's not slowing down.

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which is kind of a positive change that they've made. All right, so with that, may I interrupt, Ted? Please. A couple of interesting and I think important comments. I want to go back to, let's see. Oh, I'm going to find it. But anyway, we've got a couple. Ridd was Michael Hayden a good CIA director?

One of the worst CIA directors in American history. He was the one that not only gave us warrantless wiretapping when he was director of the NSA. When he went to CIA, he ran the torture. program and the rendition program and the secret prisons program and when he was called out on it actually doubled down and co-authored a book on why torture was good number one um mw excuse me mw knox 186 america sells out middle eastern christians but instead of 30 pieces of silver we get 37 trillion dollars of debt i wish i had thought of that i wish i had thought to say that so yeah

because that is 100 that's exactly what's happening and we have sold out Middle Eastern Christians. I miss our Pope. You know, the last Pope right now would be raging over what the Israelis did to the, that historical Catholic church. Oh, yeah, in Gaza. He blew up. I mean, the Israelis blew up, not the Pope.

And the same thing with the Greek church, St. Borefidios, early on, in October, November, two years ago, they bombed St. Bortepidio's church, which was the longest continuously active church in the world from the six hundreds it's been open like every sunday for since the six hundreds not only did the israelis bomb it and destroy it but they killed 24 women and children that had taken refuge inside unforgivable and they and the thing is they have the tech they know there's no fog of war really in this situation no no no the like you know in the case that you talked about like with the sniper. That guy had a clear field of vision. They have, you know, the weather is always really crystal clear. It hardly rains over there. I mean, it's, there's no excuses. They're doing it on

purpose. I just want to be super clear. Yes, indeed. Yes. St. Nicholas on 9-11, it's been rebuilt at the 9-11 footprint, and it is absolutely magnificent. You should check it out. Yep, yep, That's true. Okay, so by the way, I remember Michael Hayden, you know, he back before, this was back, I guess, in the, was it the 90s when he was at NSA? He started in 98 or 99, yes. There was an article in the French magazine, Le Nouvelle Observateur, where he was quoted talking about mass surveillance, and he was bragging at the time openly that the U.S. could and did listen and store every conversation, every form. of communication at the time things that we forgot about like telex and stuff like that but you know basically every email everything everything every text message every voicemail every email every

bit of metadata for the next 500 years all stored and like i loved i love the sophistry that they said they said as far as they're concerned it's not really intercepted until someone actually at nsa goes and listens to it so in other words Whereas I can record you nude taking a shower. But I haven't really recorded it until I go to watch it. I just have it on my shelf. What nonsense. I mean, that's like, so if I have the Beatles White album,

but I don't ever listen to it, do I have the Beatles White album, really? I'd say yes. I'd say yes, I do. I'll tell you what, in 2008, this is right after I blew the whistle and the torture program, but before my arrest, I was invited to be on Bill Mars show I forget the name of it

whatever Bill Mars Real time Terrible name Terrible a terrible show So I was going to be on with Mike Hayden And We go

I flew out there He flew out there And in the green room We're sitting there And I said Hi Mike And he said General Hayden

I said I'm not in the military Mike. And I realized, of course, instantly that it bothered him very much, that I wasn't calling him General Hayden. And I refused. And he walked out. He walked out of the show. And I was on by myself. What a puss. Yeah. That's how he is. And I went to an event recently at the National Press Club that was sponsored by the Michael Hayden Center for the Study of Intelligence at George Mason University. And he's had a number of strokes. And I don't wish this on anybody. But he got up to thank everybody he has two canes and there's this young woman who physically lifts him up out of the chair because he couldn't get up himself and he's bent over balancing on the two canes like this and he opens his mouth and like this drool comes out of his mouth and goes all the way to the floor and he just says thank you thank you and then he sat down and i was like okay well there but for the grace of god yeah yeah he got what he had coming at that point you're so like okay

karma caught up. Michael Hicks is saying on YouTube, John, my mom says that you became, that you become what you don't forgive. It seems clear to me that Israel hasn't forgiven being rounded up into ethnic ghettos by a militarized state. And that is, you've hit the nail right on the head there. That's, I wish I had thought of that to say that. Well, I mean, it's right, it's like the, it's the trauma thing, right?

Like if, I mean, it's like if my mom used to hit. me. So if I were to hit my kid, I would be justified. I don't think so. But that is often how it works. And, you know, I mean, certainly there's a whole field of psychology that could be applied toward nation states and their policies. Oh, imagine. Imagine how many PhD candidates are thinking about this dissertation right now, what we're seeing unfolding in Gaza and how to make psychological sense of it. Totally. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it's like when you're, I think when you're beleaguered and you feel victimized, then you can easily justify anything to yourself.

And that's what's happening, right? I mean, everybody just says, October 7, October 7, we can do anything we want. And it's like, okay, so you're allowed, first of all, you don't necessarily have to react at all, but how you react is up to you. You know, those are the words of the abuser. Well, October 7, so we can do anything wrong on.

We can drop an atomic bomb on Gaza City. We can do anything October 7th. We can kill all the babies and eat them. October 7th. You know, anything we want, anything. I mean, it's absurd, really. But it's also. I went to an event the other day.

It was a conservative event. And I don't even know why. I went just because I was invited. So I went. And there was this idiot there. He was the head of the Iowa Republican Party. And he's one of these abortion absolutists. that, you know, not only should all abortions be illegal from the moment of conception,

but if a woman miscarries, she should be investigated and, you know, all that stuff. And he said something about Gaza. I don't even remember what it was. And I said, you know, it's up to all of us to support human rights. I said, this is the thing I don't understand about you, you so-called pro-life absolutists. You guys are pro-life from the point of conception to the point of birth. And then you don't give a shit what anybody does or has happened to them once they're born. And he says to me, you sound like you're pro Hamas.

And I said, you see, that's what I mean. I said, you're a fucking idiot. And there's nothing I can do with that. And that's how I left it. Yeah, no, no. Well, that's, I blocked his phone number. He had given me his phone number earlier in the day and I blocked it. Yeah, no, no, I mean, I hear a lot of that kind of thing.

And, you know, I mean, well, you know, the. The thing is, the Israelis, right, they have the term for this, you know, this form of arguing, and it's called Hasbara, right? It's basically like, you know, we get our, we're going to say whatever it takes, facts be damned, just to get our way, we're going to bully you, yell at you, shout at you. It's like, you know, if you've ever seen either a reenactment or footage of a cultural revolution struggle session, where some poor saps wearing a dunce hat, it's 1916. the whole and he's got like a sandwich board with all of his purported sins like I was a member of the of the of the landlord class or whatever and the entire village is screaming at him to reap that he's a capitalist running dog that he's you know he betrayed the masses and the revolution he's an enemy of Mao everyone's throwing like rotten fruit at him and it's like of course most people almost everyone they're just going to break down and that's like what it's like online these people I mean, the IDF hires, they have thousands of people employed all over the world just to go to, for example, the comment section of, yeah, not this show, but they're going to come here. Oh, they'll come here. They're on, they're on my comment sections, wherever my cartoons appear.

I've got a kind of a barn burner of a cartoon about Gaza up right now. And those people are way up my ass right today over that. And it's like, you know, it's, it's cyber warfare. And, you know, the thing is, there is no point really engaging with them or talking to them. Because, like, with normal people, if you present them with facts, like, let's say, you know, I'm a liberal, I was always supportive of Israel. And then someone's like, well, but then look, they did this, they did that. Eventually, you can wear them down, you know, like the water making the going, the Colorado River, you know, carving out the Grand Canyon. But that's like not, but you can't, you know, but you can't do that with these people.

because they're not trying to have a discussion. It's like they're trying to just browbeat you to death. That is absolutely right. Hey, Cameron Draleigh asks a good question. What's it like when you're on those Pierce Morgan debates? How do you try and make a point while being cut off so often? Thank you. Thank you for that.

You know, I gave it back to Alan Dershowitz as best I could. And the other couple of times, I was on once with Scott Horton, who I love and have great respect for. And Scott was the one doing the attacking against the other guys. And then the last time I was on, oh, yeah, that was a weird experience because I was on with Jack Posobiac. And, you know, I always considered him to be, if not Satan, then one of Satan's relatives. And then we're 10 minutes into it. And I realized, oh, my God, they have me here to be on Jack Posobiac. Tobiac side, because what it ended up being was about Gaza.

And I said, you know, these evangelicals, they're perfectly happy to watch the Israelis just bomb any Christian church they want and wipe out entire Christian villages. And everybody's perfectly fine with that because they think that if they force all the Jews back to Israel, that Christ is coming and they're all going to go up in their rapture, which of course is nonsense and not mentioned anywhere at all in the Bible. it's a late 19th century invention of the American Southern Baptist Church. So, you know, the way I was raised was to not interrupt or to apologize for interrupting and to try to wait my turn and be helpful.

And I really try hard to do that. That has to go out the window on Pierce Morgan because he expects you to jump in. In fact, his producer told me not to be afraid to interrupt that if the interrupting gets to be too much that Pierce will break it up. But it's not really in my nature to interrupt. I have to force myself to do it on that show. Thanks for asking. That was a funny question.

Yeah, no, it's, it is, it's, you know, there's a lot of these shows. They kind of feel, Pierce Morgan, I've never been on, but it doesn't seem like it's, like, quite like this. But I remember, I was a regular on Fox in like the, about 20 years ago, all the time over war on terror stuff. and they had ergonomic warfare. So, like, you'd go in, and, like, if you were on Bill, on the O'Reilly factor or whatever, you were sitting on, like, a broken secretary's chair that was like,

you had a hard time, like, maintaining your balance. You're about a foot below Bill. And, you know, I'm 6'2, so I'm not really used to that, looking up like this. And the, and Bill is sitting at a nice, comfortable Airon chair, leaning up against the table, and you're sitting there like, and it's like they do everything to fuck with you. The cameraman literally would be like whispering like comments

right at you like while you're on the air and they'd be like, you know, it's like, come on. Oh, come on. It was, I mean, it was it was like being razzed like, you know, by a baseball catcher. You know, I mean, it's like, and I was just like, this is so immature and i was like look i was bullied throughout my childhood you can't do anything to me i'm like you know you can't it's not going to do anything to me but it must work with some people one time i

saw uh hannity was doing that to someone and they brought in this like english professor from you know oxford or something and she obviously had no idea what fox was and so you know he starts yelling at her like you know why are you with the terrorists she's like pardon me i don't And at one point, she's like, very thoughtful. She's like, I'm sorry, is there something wrong with the connection? Why are you shouting at me? Good for her. Good.

But she was genuinely puzzled. And it was kind of a superpower to watch. That doggone Bill O'Reilly, I think I mentioned to you, his producer called me once to get me on the show. And I said, sure, I'll come on the show. And he said, we're not allowed to go on any show three days before or three days after our show. I said, get out of you. here. I'm not going to just block off a week to be on the Bill O'Reilly show. So I said no. A week. And then they called later like, well, you know, we could make it two days and two days,

but I said, no, I'm not doing it. And I didn't. I never went on his show. Not doing it. All the time. I mean, the first time I went on, my friend said, who was a D.C. Insider, you know, his, his girlfriend at the time was Laura Bush's PR flag. And she, and he said, like, if you go on the factor and you survive, you've won. And it's true, they cut your mic constantly. Oh, yeah. You're making a point. He heard that.

Yeah. And like, you know, you don't get it out. It's pretty bad. That's at a certain point why liberals will not go on or lefties or progressives just because you get abused. It's not like, I don't think, it's not even that they're not asking or that people are afraid. It's just not worth it.

Do you prep for those shows and do some research before? or do you just wing it? What do you do, Ted? Oh, I, well, it depends on the topic. I mean, if it's something I know a lot about, like the back of my hand, I just show up. But, you know, let's say it's about editorial cartooning or whatever. But if it's about something complicated, you know, something involved, or in a fast-moving story, like, for example, if we're talking about D.C., first it was going to be 500 National Guardsman. Then a couple hours later, it's 800 National Guardsman. So I feel like you just want to be up to date in case those details come up. What about you, John? I almost never prepare because I figure if I don't

know these issues by now, I'm never going to know them. Although I'm giving a speech in New York on Saturday at a hacker's convention. And I'm not a hacker. And tech is not my strong suit necessarily. So I'm preparing for this one. But only to make references to like vault 7 and stuff that the CIA has been doing. But yeah, otherwise, no, I don't, I don't prepare. And I do think that, like, having things that are, like, read through or being over-prepared can really screw you up, like, in a public appearance. I have a friend, she's a brilliant cartoonist, but she, like, reads a speech.

And I'm like, that's like death. Oh, yeah, never. Just show up with some bullet points that you want to talk about. If you need a card to remind you, great. but just know the topics you know what one of the guys at the at the speakers bureau that i had signed with a while ago said that that i did the trump weave like i'd start one story and then take a side road into another story and i end up coming out you know completing the story but i do the weave and it's because i don't write anything down i just i just walk up to the podium

and start talking well i mean there's a lot to be said for that i mean it's a lot more entertaining. And that is what Trump does. And I think it's part of the reason that he beat Hillary Clinton. The stump speech is dead. Someone needs to tell the Democratic Party, you know, no one should go from town to town giving the same exact speech. You should go and have one thing to say, and it should sound natural. People don't want that anymore. That's true. That's absolutely right. I got a question here that I want to answer. Cameron Drowley is asking, Ted is political cartooning dying? Who do you still respect in the field?

It's absolutely dying. I would say it's dead. When I got into this in the early 90s, I was syndicated in 1991. There were 1,200 full-time editorial cartoonists in the United States. 1200. There are eight. Okay?

So it's finished. There are, you know, 20 or 30 sort of freelancers who, you know, they get some work out there here and there. but really that's about it I mean Joel Pett's still doing good work I like Jack Oman's work there's a lot of several others you know

Kevin Calgary just got got fired from the Baltimore son he's good but I mean the thing is and the cartoonist who I look at though who is the guy who I'm like that guy's smarter than me and I wish I was as good as him is Ruben Bowling his real name is Ken Fisher he does a comic called Tom the Dancing Bug, and it is always so damn smart.

I'm like, I hate you. How about Tom Tomorrow? Do you read him? I used to. We were both in a lot of the same papers together. In fact, we both used to get confused for each other because Ted Rawl, Tom Tomorrow. We both worked in four-panel format, black and white, both progressive. And, yeah, so of course, obviously, he's a very important.

cartoonist. I always thought he was too wordy, and I always thought, and I never really liked the look of it. And after a certain time, so what the thing about, for me, the judge is, am I going to be surprised? Like, with Ruben Bowling, I never know what he's going to do. And there's probably going to be something funny and crazy in it. That's the judgment for me. You know, but like Tom Tomorrow, I feel like if I miss it, no big deal. Dan, if you're watching that's his real name i love it sorry i love it he used to write to me when i was in prison and he did a he did a comic about me and then he he sent me a copy which was very generous i have it framed in my den he is a yeah he's a he is a nice guy um you know and it's many times i always thought

like well we might become friends and hang out and then just never do it's like unrequited friendship you know like the bromance the one-way bromance right but you know yeah he's like one year older than me i And, you know, yeah, and, yeah, this modern world is, that's right. Yeah, this modern world. Love it. Get Your War on is David Reese. That stopped a long time ago. It was clip art comic that you see it criticized, not by me about that fact.

But it was a very classic Bush administration era. If you really are interested in those kind of comics, I edited this series of books called Attitude. And basically, they're interviews and sample cartoons. and with alternative, like, weekly cartoonists, it's from 2002, 04, and 6. And you can get them on eBay for very little. And anyway, you can get a really good sense of the kind of stuff that I like and the kind of people that I like. Excellent.

Where did we meet, Ted? We met when you came on the show that Brian Becker and I were doing in 2017. That's right. Yeah. That is, that's right. Yeah, and Brian's still going strong, right? Going strong with the socialist program. You know, I pointed Brian as an example of what I hope we can accomplish all the time.

I ran into Brian, oh, it's been a little while now, February was the last time I saw him. He spent so much time in New York, I don't get to see him much in Washington anymore. But I saw him at a counter inauguration event with Angela Davis and a couple of other people. And he's doing very, very well. with his podcast he when when we lost our jobs at um actually i had left sputnik briefly i end up going back but when our show was shut down at sputnik back in 2020 he did a go fund me to raise five grand just for some sound equipment a decent camera and a microphone and that's how he started the socialist program and now he's making it's a monster he's making more money than he's ever

made in his life. That's so great. Ironically, considering the subject. He's a communist, yeah. So we've got like a couple of questions over from the Rumble feed. We don't want to feel like you guys are left out. Absolutely. So rebellious rainbow unicorn wants to know, is Ali Mortada still alive? I don't know who that is. Do you? No, I sure don't. So, okay, someone needs to chime. I apologize. And another, and then APEC test dummy, love that name, was October 7th and enabled by Israel so they could light a backfire to Gaza and Iran. I think there's something there. I think it was, they knew it was 100% they knew it was coming.

I agree. You know, they had all, you know, the Hamas posted the videos of them practicing like months ahead of time on the internet. So, I mean, unless the Mossad doesn't look at Facebook or, or, X, I don't think that they could have missed it or Instagram. And then when it happened, and this blows me away, and you probably shouldn't just take my word for it, but go look at the New York Times or the Washington Post. On October 7th, the response time to some of these kibbutzum was seven and a half hours. Now, there's no place in Israel that is seven and a half hours away from any other place in Israel. It is a small country. You can drive with traffic, four hours maybe,

from diagonally across from one corner to another. It's not, it's the size of New Jersey. And so, you know, seven and a half hours tells me they didn't want to come. Also, there was a smart fence, John. I mean, so what's the purpose of a smart fence? So it's like if you have a, it's like if you have a alarm system in your house and, you know, the little, and someone breaks the window, well, the little electric thing gets broken and it calls to your local police department and sets off an alarm.

The cops know instantaneously that your window's been broken and they can come out right away if they want. Well, if they want, the smart fence was breached by Hamas on October 7th. They didn't come. They didn't come. So they knew it was coming. They were like, I don't think they told Amas to do it. I don't think they planned it. But I think they were like, this is going to be our great opportunity to build greater Israel.

Yeah. Annex. That was it. first of all thank you john mcguire very much for that appreciate your generosity um ted i couldn't agree more and remember this this weak half excuse that came out from the israeli government uh in the days after october the seventh uh the excuse was that well we knew something was coming but smotrich and ben givir told us it was going to be in the west bank we didn't know it was going to come from gaza we know that's not true because settlers along the line with Gaza were reporting for months that there was training

underway and then remember in the days before October 7th Hamas sent balloons over as a test and still the Israelis did nothing so that tells me that of course the Israelis knew it was coming and why would they want it to happen so that they could launch their drive for greater Israel. Yes. I'm 100% convinced. A couple of questions. Instead of printing news publications with cartoons, there should be a publication of only cartoons. I bet it would sell. It's been tried a few times. There was something called Comic Relief, which ran for a number of years. It was really good. It was cartoons only. There's the Santa Cruz comic news, which probably still is in business out in California. And today, there's still a long-running

publication called Funny Times out of Cleveland, Ohio. But it's not enough. I mean, the reason in these places survive is because they only pay reprint fees. And if you want a professional cartoonist, someone who gets up in the morning and basically lives and brings and thinks about cartoons every day and produces a cartoon like close to every day or every day, that's not going to do it. So, I mean, the real answer, in my opinion, is to convince news online websites like CNN.com, MSNBC.com, Axios.com, and all these places that are basically the successors to legacy media to start running cartoons and not just political cartoons.

Cameron wants to know how do we get, how do journalists get into a war zone? What's the preparation like? Oh, it's different from the way I got in. I got in business class. Yeah, it's not the same. So technically, I mean, it's pretty funny. You're basically going, it depends. You try to get permission as much as you can, but sometimes you can't.

So, for example, I covered the 2014 Israeli invasion of Gaza, right? And to get in there, I was like, I first went, I looked into whether you could go in through Israel. The border was closed and the Israelis wouldn't give you any permission. But then I was like, Egypt, go through the tunnels. And so I crossed, Egypt was easy to get into. But then arriving on the Hamas side, you have, I didn't have a visa. Hamas does issue visas, or at least they used to. What?

Always fun to get that stamp. That attracts all sorts of attention. in interesting places. So back, it was a government, you know, and so, but I got Hamas to, but I arrived. I explained myself, obviously, I wasn't the only media person, but they check you out too, like, who are you online?

And, oh, okay, this guy is legit, he's okay. And then they let you, so it always depends. Afghanistan was, this is a good story. So in 2001, I was dying to get over there right away, you know, after the bomb started falling on October 4th. And I went all over there. over the place to people who didn't have anyone there, various TV stations, networks, newspapers. And they were, and I got turned down for a variety of reasons. And finally, I was like, I went to

the Village Voice where I was on staff. And I was like, guys, you know, I'll put, I'll cobble it together. I'll do like a little bit of radio with KFI radio and send me over there. They're like, no, we have a guy. He's going in. He's in, he's on a, he's on a, he's on a, he's on a US Navy battleship in the Indian Ocean. And I'm like, you're aware of the fact that Afghanistan is a landlocked country, right? Like, your guy's in the Navy is on a naval vessel. He's not going in. It's like, oh, really?

You think you know better? I'm like, I know I know better. And so then they're like, okay, well, never mind, Ted. We have another guy. He's going to go in through Pakistan through the Khyber Pass. And I'm like, the first thing the Pakistanis do when there's trouble is they shut that Khyber Pass. You bet they do.

in there. So I'm like, Tajikistan is the way. So like, I flew to, I convinced them. They're like, okay, you want to take your shot. I flew to Dushan Bay. But it's basically all catch as catch can. You arrive there. You have to get a special permission from the Taji government, as you find out, to go to the trouble zone, which is 100 kilometers away from the Afghan border. Then you have to figure out how to get, how to cross that border. I was going to take a chopper. Now the chopper's not flying because it's uh which was going to the northern alliance capital of right um that chopper wasn't going because of fog in the in the mountains so then you're just like okay it'll go by go over land got a higher got to hire someone to go over land then you have to get so you basically you're bringing tons and tons of

cash and that's the most nerve-wracking part yeah because you're walking around with at least 50 to 100 thousand dollars and in a hundred dollar bills in a place where 20 dollars is a life change amount of money. So you're a walking ATM in a place where everyone's got guns and they're desperate and they're hungry and they're pissed off. So yeah, it's like basically. And you don't know if they're good, you don't know if they are willing to let you bribe them for $20 or if they're going to kill you for the whole 50. No, that's right. That's exactly right. You don't know anything that's going to happen. I can't tell you how many times I had to talk my way out of being murdered. you sort of lose track after a while and you're like quoting from the Quran and you're like you know

you offer you know the Quran requires you as a good Muslim to give sanctuary to the unarmed traveler and then like are you Jewish or are you a good Muslim and they're like hey I'm a good Muslim really because you're acting like a Jew and then you say anything that you need you need to get through a situation like that but then there's hotel wars which are like like Bosnia. It was a hotel war. You know, you stayed at like a nice hotel, drive out to the front, make it back to the hotel by happy hour, easy peasy, three, four stars. So just it really, really depends. You could do a show just on that. Man, that's a rough life. And I think I'm too old for it. You know, I mean, I realized when I was in my 50s, like, you don't really, you can't,

you're not going to have the instincts for it. Once you get over, like, say, 52. Yeah, that's a tough life. All right, so Ali Mortata, his famous greeting, Hello, My Enemies, he was pretty funny. Oh, is he the comedian, the stand-up comic guy? Oh, oddball comic. Okay, so thank you, John McGuire for your generous donation. Oddball cartoon question. Have you ever put one of your cartoons into the new AI image to video creators to see what it does to it?

Yes, I have. Did it steal it from you? It probably, it tried. So I have a very simple drawing style. And one of the things that nobody knows is that simple drawing styles are harder to replicate than complicated drawing styles. Because if you just think about like Charlie Brown, there's like maybe seven or eight lines that make Charlie Brown's face.

Each line has to be really perfect. Otherwise, the whole thing's fucked up. But if you draw something that's like full of crosshatching, like the sort of the mistakes can cancel each other out. So AI is like very simplistic and it doesn't know what to do and it doesn't get the lines right. So basically there's no other way to put it.

It makes it look like a retard's been drawing it. That's great. Everything's off and weird. It's going to get better. And I'm dying for it to get better. I want to use it to be able to produce a cartoon like five seconds after I hear about a news story and get it out there right away

because that does better. I'm not at all against new technology, you know, because it's going to happen whether I'm against it or not. Yeah, I think you're right. This, I'm sure it's, well, it might be for either of us. I was not at the Battle of Torobora. How were you? I arrived two months after Torabora, but that's why I went.

I went to clean up the remnants of Torabora, and we had some real success. Yeah. You know, just as an aside. You mean you're scavenging for evidence? and information and stuff that's left behind and grabbing people that were a little too slow to get away from us i i i have a uh you know what i'll bring it for the for the next uh show i have a giant chunk of raw lapis lazuli uh that i took from osama bin laden's house i like i like to think it was his paperweight it probably was i think it probably was but i took

it. I still have it. It's magnificent. Do you have any of his videos? Apparently had quite the video. No, but you know what, though? I went on a show. I never say no to reporters from Pittsburgh, right? So I went on KDKATV2. They have a local meet the press after the national meet the press. So it's the, it's, what was his name? I forget his name. Anyway, he's, he's, he's, he's, I forget his name. He was the host and the editor-in-chief of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette was the other questioner. And so the meet the press guy, I mean, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette guy was not the friendliest guy in the world. And he used to kind of zing me every once in a while.

So he said to me, how surprised were you that there was so much porn on Osama bin Laden's computers? And I think he wanted to make me blush or whatever. And I said, oh, you know, it's funny, the night that we killed him, a friend of mine from the CIA called me and said, how much porn you think is on that computer. And I said, dude, are you kidding? It's going to all be porn. And then, of course, it was all porn. A guy with four wives. Yeah, a guy with four wives.

And I said to him, when you live in such a repressive culture and you get Internet access and nobody else is in the room, you look at people. porn. I always say that, right? You ever notice it's in, you know, when there's a sex scandal in Britain, you know, it's, it's never a labor MP that they find hanging from this feeling with a red hole is a story. Always. So they looked at each other and then, and then the one guy says to the other, I think this is the first time that I've done the show in 25 years that I've actually been speechless. John got an ad. Quick pause to tell you about pickax, the creation, the creator and user-first platform built for people, not algorithms, you know what big tech is up to, data mining, bot-driven feeds, blackbox AI deciding who sees your work. Instead, Pickax

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I like it. I like it. Yeah, it's a neat site. Yep, I agree. Okay, so let's, I got it. We got to talk about MTG. That lady, she's making some money. So before she went into Congress, not that long ago, she was, her net worth was officially 700 grand. That's basically where Bernie Sanders was. It's basically like, you know, one or two nice house, one or two decent houses. And now, she's, her net worth is $22 million. She's had many, many, many, many, many stock transactions. before Trump's tariff pause. She's saying basically, nothing to see here.

Shut the fuck up. Stop talking about this. Go away, be quiet. Probably not the best look for her. But if I were her, I'd say, hey, come and look at my records if you've got a problem with me. Otherwise, shut up. I understand she comes from money.

But, you know, there are exchange-traded funds, mutual funds, that track, for example, Nancy Pelosi's investments, which, you know, ought to be, everybody on Capitol Hill should have blind trusts. Nobody should be actively investing in anything. Right. Or they should be forced to divest from everything. Yeah. Collect your 0.4% savings interest like everyone else. Oh, thank you, Starline.

I appreciate that. I'm trying my best. You know, Ted and I both, it's, this is a tough gig, especially at our age. It's true. Like, you know, I feel like I'm trying to reinvent myself. I know. Right. I mean, the fun thing is, I mean, actually, I do like it. It's not like it's an ordeal or anything. I mean, this is a fun thing to do. I really look forward to the show. I do too. So it's definitely like the highlight of my day. Same here. And we're going to, we're going to be going every day soon. Yeah, next week. Yeah. That's the plan, right? By the way, apropos of that, Wednesday, I'm traveling back from Montana. So we're doing it on Thursday this week.

So it's Monday, Thursday, Friday this week. No show on Wednesday. So that's that. Yeah, it does like five shows. I have three. The DMZ show with Scott Stantis is once a week. And then there's the TMI show also. Anyway.

So, yeah. Star Lion says never cared about political cartoons. Still haven't looked into them, honestly. Well, that only. means that Star Lions probably under 60 years of age. It mean, only old people look at them. But they're such a great format, or at least potentially they can be. Anyway, so MTG, is there anything to see here? I mean, is this smoke? And if so, is that fire? I understand that she comes from money. So I don't know. I don't want to point the finger.

But I will say when I worked for John Kerry, and you know how much John Kerry has. people mostly from his wife well people think that and a half or a little more than half came from his wife but he was independently wealthy before her he um he comes from a very long line of money you know he comes off as this as this good irish catholic and um he only discovered that he was irish as an adult his people came over on the mayflower he just happens to have like one Irish branch of the family and it just happens to be his surname. But he's worth about 750 million bucks and he didn't give a shit what people thought about that. He didn't care.

I mentioned a couple of shows ago that he bought a yacht, but it wasn't even a yacht. It was like this major ocean going ship. And to save himself the yacht tax, he docked it in Rhode Island because they, They don't have a yacht tax in Rhode Island. They have one in Massachusetts. And people just, you know, practically took to the streets. We were getting hundreds of calls and nasty emails and letters. And I said to the staff director, a really good guy who actually is a member of the Kennedy family.

I said, you know, this is a really bad look. The guy's got all the money in the world. Just pay the fucking tax. And it took him about two weeks, but he finally got around to it. and he paid the tax and moved the boat to Massachusetts. But these rich people, they're all the same. They're so afraid you're going to, you're going to chisel $100 from them or something. And God knows they don't want to pay their taxes.

No, that's the thing that drives them absolutely nuts. Nick's asking any upcoming guests also, Houdini's asking me to talk about Putin. Yes, we are in about 60 seconds. So, yeah, so guests next Thursday, I think it is. I'm not sure if it's this Thursday or next Thursday. We've got an expert coming in to talk about sanctions and whether they're effective or not and what their actual effect is on civilians

in the countries upon which they're imposed. All right, I think we do need to talk about Putin and Trump. So they're meeting, I guess, this Friday in Alaska, in Anchorage. And they're going to be obviously talking about Ukraine. There's some concern or question as to whether Zelensky might also be invited to make it a three-way, are, you know, I mean, I don't think Zelensky will get the invite. I don't think he makes any sense. It doesn't make any sense because Trump hasn't had time to bully him yet. Right. What it comes down to is Trump

Trump floated this idea. Well, if we let you just keep all of the Ukrainian territory that you've seized, is that good enough? And Putin said yes, apparently. Well, nobody thought to say anything to Zelensky. Oops. Yeah. But, I mean, Ted, we've all said from the very beginning, we all knew it was going to turn out this way. True.

The Russians get Donbass and Crimea. The Ukrainians can't join NATO, but they get a fast track into the EU. And then, you know, we all call it even. And I'm sorry if, you know, this is painful and difficult for the Ukrainians. But the only other choice, the only alternative is to just keep fighting the Russians and then you're going to end up losing your entire country at the end of the day. I mean, that is true. And the, yeah, I mean, Trump had a funny remark, as he often does, about Zelensky.

He said, you know, Zelensky says he can't do anything. He can't give up any territory without getting constitutional approval. And he's like, but he's like, Zelensky seems to not any constitutional approval to go around killing everybody and keeping the war going on forever. Fair point. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I think Zelensky has led his country to disaster, you know, I mean, even if we state, if we stipulate that, you know, post-Metternick in the era of the nation state, that no country can invade another country, you know, and that that's just taboo, we can stipulate that. But it doesn't change the fact that when you have a very powerful and wealthy neighbor who, you know, right next on your doorstep, you don't fuck with them. You know, and, you know, it's like if you're Luxembourg, you don't tell France to go fuck itself.

And that's what Ukraine did to, you know, basically saying we can do whatever we want. You know, we're going to blow up, we're going to kill Russian minorities in the east. We're going to, if we want to join NATO, we will, nothing you can do about it. We're going to depose, you know, the Russian friendly president that was democratically elected and get rid of him and ask the Americans for help doing it. I mean, Putin got pissed off. It's not surprising. He sure did. He sure did.

Thank you, Tarek. Yeah, Somaliland. Can I talk about Somaliland for a minute? Please do. Please do. Somaliland has been seeking independence and, more importantly, recognition for so long. Yeah, 30 years. 30 years they've been looking for recognition.

They have said all the right things. They have done all the right things. They have done all the right things. They have nothing to do with whatever pseudo government happens to be in power or quasi-power in Mogadishu. The U.S. has met with them on both official and unofficial bases. I told you I went to Somaliland in, I think it was 2011. I went with the American ambassador in Djibouti, the defense attache, and the director of embassy security. The thing is that in the White House, they're just not interested in this.

And it's painful because these people really want to develop. They really want to do the right thing. They want to have good friends and a steady foreign policy. And they see the success that the Djibushans are having in terms of building and expanding their port. They love the fact that there are both Americans and Chinese there. they really want to emulate what the Djibushans have done. And nobody takes them seriously. Let's talk about what's going to happen at that summit.

So, I mean, we know with, yes, I agree with you. We know where this war is going to end. The question is, is it going to be ending soon? I mean, what is Putin going to be asking for? What's Trump going to want? What's going to be the outcome? Is it going to, is anything significant going to get done, you know, in one day? I'm curious about that with these two very long,

winded men. Actually, that's not fair. Trump's not long-winded in person. But Putin is. I can't imagine that anything solid develops in a day. Somebody mentioned Odessa as well. By all accounts, Odessa is safe for the Ukrainians, that the Russians apparently don't even have designs on it.

They just said that they did in order to increase pressure on the Ukrainians. But no, I don't think anything is going to be definitively. solved, especially when half of the warring parties aren't represented. And so I think we have to, I think what Trump has to do is get to Putin's bottom line. Now, Trump said something the other day that he may or may not have made up. And what it was was that Russia keeps the territory, Ukraine joins NATO. It's like, wait a minute, Putin's not said that publicly. And you're just announcing that.

That does sound new. Yeah, it's very, very new. It's hard you imagine Putin agreeing to that? No, no. But that's what Trump announced when he said that he and Putin were going to meet an anchor jump Friday. I took note of that. So, I mean, I think we should train ourselves to not expect anything. No, agreed.

There's going to have to be a meeting in, you know, Geneva or Vienna or whatever or Reykivik or whatever. Putin wants, I mean, Trump wants this done now. Done. yesterday yes and I I don't know if Putin is I mean he's showing up it's good that these two guys are sitting down I think in the end they're going to it is they're going to let Zelensky sit at the kids table and tell him what's what at the end I think that is exactly what we should expect um so Houdini's asking if Russia keeps the territory gained will there be an insurgency in those territories certainly not in

Crimea no certainly not in Crimea could there be in say the western part of the Donbos I don't you know I suppose I suppose anything is possible, but I don't see it happening. No. And then it's too heavily Russian. No, I disagree with Eric saying Trump just wants a frozen conflict. I totally disagree with that. Yeah, I do too. He wants an armistice. He wants a peace deal. He wants to, that's what he gets to go to Geneva and ask for that for. Nick's asking, John, do you think Putin has his eyes on Transnistria? Deep down, I think yes. But I think that he realizes it would be full-hearted to do.

do anything about it. Also, you know, John Transnistria serves like an important, like, function for smuggling. Yes. Yes, indeed. It's kind of like this, this no man's land. Like what happens in Transnistria, stays in Transnistria. Everything gets smuggled. Otherwise, how are you going to get stuff to Moldova and to Romania without Transnistria? Especially with sanctions. Especially. I think if I were, if I were Putin, I'd leave the Transnistrians alone. I agree. By the way, they still have Soviet flag. How cool is that? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Crazy.

Houdini wants to know if their meeting, doesn't it mean that a deal was already made? I'd say that's what it used to mean. Under normal circumstances, yes. Under Donald Trump, I don't think so. No. No, I think they have to sit down and they do have to do this, you know,

mono-a-mano. Yeah, they do. Kharkiv. Is that a Russian city? I think it's going to be now. if it isn't already, it's pretty well split, but I think it's essentially going to be a Russian city. How safe is Putin once the war ends? He's used the war to get rid of a lot of oligarchs and powerful government figures. There will be grudges. Russians know about grudges. They're good at grudges. They do grudges well. Yeah, that's right. But are they going to try to kill Putin? I mean,

he'd have to be really weakened before I think he'd be vulnerable. And you know what they say. if you're going to kill the king, you better kill him on the first try. Yeah, that's right. Do you see Russia starting more wars? Like, after Ukraine, like the left's narrative says, absolutely not. No, I don't either. No. Is Macron serious about going to?

No. You all mailed. The only way to get to Transnist by train. That's interesting. I didn't know that. That's funny. Yeah, I've wanted to go to the Transnistria. My last graphic novel had an important, I studied a lot about the Transnistria.

So that's why I know a little bit about it. Oh, man. All right. So I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted too. We're going to cover this. So on Thursday, we'll be back to see it'll be the day before the summit. We'll know a lot more.

Well, certainly, and I guess, you know, that Trump's experimented direct D.C. governance will have come to an exciting, thrilling conclusion. I hope there's no rioting or anything between now and then. I'll tell you what, I fear for the, that's right. I fear for the homeless population over these coming days. I really do. Oh, a question about your book. When does you agree? I don't know, man.

I sent a threatening email to my publisher saying, it's time to Fisher cut. bait. This book was supposed to be out. I sent them the draft of this book three years ago April. Three years ago, April. So I've had enough of waiting. I'll let you know as soon as I hear I'm tiredness. And I think we'll make this the last question for today. What do we think about Chechnya's leader at being MIA? What about the succession with his teenage son? I don't know anything about it. Yeah, Chechnya is like a little, it's like a sort of micro-North Korea inside of the Russian Federation. It's like very weird.

Yeah. You know, I remember reading, God, what was this book? It was the history of warfare by John Keegan. And he argued that the Chechnians are the most ferocious warriors on the planet, completely indomitable, totally insane. you know i i met a russian soldier once where was i in was it in bagdad anyway no it wasn't in bagdad it was in manama in bahrain and he told me that the chechens were the only people on earth that he was afraid of that's cool and okay well when we're doing the two it's a reminder

the show goes to five days a week this coming monday so that's right tuned it's going to be fun Yeah, looking forward to that. Guys, you guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Please like, follow, and share the show. Thank you for more. We are always appreciative, and it really makes a difference. If you're watching us on YouTube,

please strongly consider watching us either instead on Rumble or supplementally on Rumble at the same time. It makes a huge difference for us. Thanks so much for all the donations. John, do you have a website? I do. It's John curiaku.com. And I'm ted roll.com. So easy.

All right. And with that, we're going to say goodbye until Thursday. Thank you. Bye, everybody. Bye.