DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou: “Gaza-istan?”

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou explain the battle between a federal judge and the Trump Administration over SNAP Benefits, Congressional skepticism over the DoD's Drug Boat Strikes and rumors that Pakistan Will Send Troops to Gaza.SNAP Benefits Battle Intensifies: A Boston federal judge signals that she will overturn the Trump administration's refusal to release $5.3 billion in emergency funds, threatening food-stamp aid for 42 million Americans amid the government shutdown. Judge Indira Talwani questions the White House’s logic in suspending SNAP entirely, emphasizing Congress's intent to protect families from hunger, while states like New Mexico pledge $30 million and New York fast-tracks $30 million more to bridge gaps. Lawsuits from 25 Democratic-led states argue that the Republican position violates federal law, as partial payments loom uncertain and food banks brace for surging demand.So Trump Calls for the “Nuclear Option”: Not that nuclear option, the Senate one. One month into the shutdown, with Democrats scoring a rare political win, the President is calling for a radical change to the Senate and representative democracy itself. Meanwhile, Gen Z voters are turning against Team Red in a big way: The latest YouGov/Economist poll, conducted from Oct. 24-27, found that 20% of adults under the age of 30 approved of Trump, a 30-point drop from February, when 50% of 18-to-29-year-olds approved of Trump and 42% disapproved. DoD Doesn’t Know Dick: Defense officials admit in a classified briefing they cannot identify the victims killed in 14 air strikes conducted in the Caribbean over the past two months, claiming at least 57 lives, frustrating bipartisan lawmakers demanding oversight. Rep. Sara Jacobs highlights the Trumps’ unsatisfactory answers on linking vessels to terrorist groups, while primarily cocaine-laden boats fuel doubts about curbing fentanyl flows amid 70% overdose links. A new Pacific strike kills four more—who?—escalating concerns over legality as the Senate eyes war powers restrictions.Pakistan Gaza Troop Rumors: Reports rare roiling the Muslim world that Pakistan is planning to deploy 20,000 troops to a International Stabilization Force in Gaza, brokered via alleged CIA-Mossad deals in order to neutralize Hamas and secure buffers under Trump's 20-point plan. Officials say the claims are fake news, stressing no troop commitments despite advanced internal talks, while economic incentives like World Bank relief dangle. Backlash brews from Iran, Turkey, and Qatar, threatening Pakistan's Muslim-world ties as the ISF eyes handover to Palestinian Authority.

Good morning, John Kiriaku. Hey, hey, sorry, trying to get myself situated here. Me too. We have a brand new intro that I couldn't even play because I couldn't find it. So we're all trying to get ourselves situated. That's just how it is now. Welcome to Deep Program with Ted Roll and John Giriacu for Halloween, October 31st, 2025. Please like, follow, and share the show.

Just a reminder, we are here. You're deprogramming you from the mainstream BS Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. Eastern time. And we are going to be here every single day up next week as well. So please tune in. Just want to say this is the end of the month. So we keep track of all the metrics and all the numbers are still improving month after month. And so thank you. That's thanks to you guys.

But we can't do it without your support, financial and otherwise. Thanks for that. You guys are incredibly generous and it means the world to us. John, we have lots to talk about today. There's a lot of craziness going on today. And for a Friday, you know, I always say, I got this from the agency, during when I was at the agency, that Friday. Ooh, we just lost John Kariaku.

So John is overseas. He's finishing out the week. I don't think it's a secret. They're in Iberia, and he will be back home this weekend. There's John. We'll put him back on. I have no idea what that was all about. I blame ICE and Israel.

Why not? Yes, Israel, too. So I was saying Fridays at the CIA were always very, very slow because everything's closed in the Middle East on either Thursday and Friday or Friday. Friday and Saturday, depending on the country that you're in, they have different weekends. And that sort of bled into the United States, too. It's usually quieter. And a Friday, Congress is usually not in session.

Even when they're in session, they're going home on Thursday nights. But, man, there is so much to talk about today. It's busy. And none of it is good news, I hate to say. No, that's true. And I'll just go through. I'll run it through so everybody knows what to expect. So obviously, we're talking about the looming down.

tomorrow about SNAP benefits as well as the Affordable Care Act subsidies. All hits, everything hits the wall this weekend. Not that Congress much seems to care. They have, they have the house has had the month off. And the Senate has the weekend off. They're like, well, you know, what? Me worry. Anyway, we'll get into that.

Trump's polls among young voters have absolutely fallen off a cliff. And I don't mean like, oh, like, you. you know, in the last five years. I mean, literally, in just a matter of months, Gen Z voters, which is people under 30, have gone from 50% approval to 20% approval from February to October. I don't know that I've, I don't think Richard Nixon suffered such a drop off in 1974. That was more gradual. And you know, you know he's concerned because yesterday he said that his poll numbers have never been higher and his poll numbers may be at a record high for any president in American history. I mean, you know, it's all true except for not being

attached to reality at all. Yeah. And by the way, it's not just a Gen Z. I know people are watching and say, but people under 30 don't vote. And that's true. But this is also true about 30-somethings and they do vote. And they've also been voting more and more. The Defense Department admitted in a classified briefing that they don't know who they're blowing up in the Caribbean. That's even some Republican congressmen are starting to question whether that's such a great thing. They're admitting that they're serial killers. Yes, they are. They're mass murderers.

They're random murderers. Although, I have to say, John, if you were a Venezuelan fisherman, might you not, I know you have to make a living, but might you not decide to take like a two, three, six week, right now. Yeah, I would. Hey, can I add something else talking about killing Venezuelans and poll numbers and protesters and all this stuff? Yeah, I mentioned offhandedly last week that Stephen Miller lives in Arlington, Virginia, where I live. He lives walking distance from my house. And people have been going over there for weeks and writing mean things in chalk on the sidewalk in front of his house. And there's nothing he can do about it because the sidewalk is public, you know, it's public thoroughfare. You can do whatever you want. So he abruptly sold

his house for $2.3 million. It's a nice house and moved. They never told us where he moved until today i mentioned to you that that uh i read this hyper local uh website for local news called arlington now dot com says it's not just stephen miller stephen miller pete hegeseth and christy nome all moved on to fort mire army base what that abuts yep and they moved into housing that is reserved for one to four-star generals, all three of them, and their families. I mean, talk about, talk about gated community. That's the mother of all gated communities. That's a great way to say it.

It's the mother of all gated communities. And I'll tell you what, before 9-11, because my wife and I were both GS-15s, we were allowed membership in the officers club at Fort Myers. So we used to go, go bowling, have a beer, have a burger. we'd go to the pool in the summer, then 9-11 hit, and you need a DOD ID showing that you're either a general who lives there or that you are assigned to the base. So I haven't been on that base since 9-11, but they're just allowed to move into homes reserved for three and four-star generals, and we're all supposed to just nod our heads.

Well, what happens when Trump gets sick of them and fires them, or just let's just let's just do we ever have another Democratic president again? Yeah. Not 100% certain. What happens then? I guess we throw them out on their asses. And then they have to put up with the chalk remarks on their sidewalk. The chalked.

If you chalk the sidewalks, the terrorists have won. Yeah, exactly. Chalk, big baby. Thank you very much, Gregory Batista, for the very generous $20 doing. donation over on YouTube, much appreciated. Much, much, much, much appreciate. We've got some questions coming in on the Rumble feed, too. So we should, like, get some of those.

And good morning to everybody who favorite Halloween candy, F.U.S.O. wants to know. Mine, I don't really like candies, but I remain partial to chocolate. I like milk chocolate or dark chocolate the best, especially like the heavy salted kind. but they didn't really do that in Ohio in the 1970s. And I also like, what were those things called the, oh, I like lifesavers, those things. Yeah, I'm a boring person. I like chocolate. I prefer dark chocolate, but I also like milk chocolate.

Honestly, I'll eat anything that calls itself chocolate, except the white chocolate. I don't like that at all. TSTC-024 has a question too, John. Yeah, sure. Have we seen what's going on in Sudan with the Civil War that's going on? 20 to 60,000 killed so far. What are our guys' thoughts? I mean, that's a very underreported story, including by us.

We've been remiss. Very, very. I was watching coverage this morning on this French channel that I've been telling you about. France 24, it's called. And the video from Sudan is, it's just epically brutal. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of bodies just laying. you know, in the fields or laying in this hospital parking lot, the, the government, a government affiliated militia attacked civilians day before yesterday, killed at least 624 people. Just in cold

blood, it was a, it was a massacre. It's a crime against humanity is what it is. This, John, reminds me a little bit of the underreported civil war in Tajikistan in the 90s. Yeah. A lot of people died, by some accounts, a quarter to a third of the population. There were massacres, ethnic massacres all the time. You know, they ran out of bullets at one point. And so they would tie people together with ropes and throw them into rivers and drown them all together. It was like one of their things. And, you know, the similarity with Sudan is that these were proxy wars that were funded by outsiders.

As long as the money kept coming in, the war went on. But eventually the proxy sponsors, which included the Taliban and the U.S. and Russia and China, like basically all lost interest in Tajikistan. And they stopped funding it. And then like basically there was a power sharing agreement and they had a fragile peace. And now they've really climbed out of the hole. It took a long time. But, you know, they were in a deep hole.

Sudan feels like that, right? Isn't like so the rapid support forces, which is a breakaway part of the government, it's just a civil conflict within the government. They're supported by the UAE, they're financed by the UAE, right? And the government of Sudan is supported by, is it Qatar? Yeah, it was Saudi Arabia, I think. Saudi Arabia.

Yeah. So there seems to be a Wahhabi component to this conflict. You know, I would personally have called Hassan Tarabi Wahhabi, and the leaders of Sudan today are sort of the ideological descendants of Hassan Tarabi. So I would say, yeah, there probably is a Wahhabi component to this. He was a fundamentalist by anybody's definition of fundamentalism. John, I think we should spend a little bit of our weekend checking up on Sudan and doing a deeper dive next week because we owe everyone on deep program. And I think we owe people a discussion about Nigeria as well. There's a lot of bad, bad stuff going on in Nigeria right now.

All right, sub-Saharan Africa, it is next week. If you so, thank you for the donation. Happy Pumpkin Day to you as well. I am a great pumpkin believer. As a huge fan of peanuts, of course, so am I as well. All right. So, John, we have this panoply of stories to choose from. what would you like to get into first?

Ted, if you don't mind, I'd like to start at the end and talk about prospects for Pakistani troops to be sent to Gaza. Let's do it. You know, it sounds nuts, and it actually makes a little bit of sense. And the reason is, while Pakistan is Muslim, it has always kept the Arab-Israeli conflict at arm's length because the Pakistanis are not Arabs. They're Pakistanis. And so they have enough problems, let alone to have to worry about what's happening in Palestine as well. So now there are rumors that both the Israelis and the Saudis are saying, what about Pakistan? Now, this makes

a lot of sense to me from the Saudi perspective, because Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, are joined at the hip like this. They love each other. And the Pakistanis make up the vast majority of the Saudi military. So to send Pakistanis to Gaza might actually work out. They're Muslims. So they should have the respect of the Gaza Palestinians and vice versa. They would show respect to the Gaza Palestinians because they understand the culture and the religion.

and they would sort of take the air out of Hamas's sales, which is exactly what the Israelis want. I haven't seen any comment by the United States on this, but I think this might be a good idea. Well, so the rumors that are floating are that they're talking about 20,000 troops. That's a lot. Of course, you know, it is a place where 2.2 million people used to live and 1.7 million people still live, so it's not that much. But, I mean, it's still a good-sized

group. This has supposedly been brokered between the ISI and Mossad. What's the relationship like? Well, there was a formal relationship as recently as 1979. But there is no formal relationship since then. Like I say, they don't have a lot, they don't have a lot to do with each other in, in day-to-day world events. But they're not at each other's throats. The Pakistanis are worried about the Indians. And to a slightly lesser extent, they're worried about the Afghans. They don't have time to worry about the Israelis. And the Israelis have never seen Pakistan as a threat to Israel. You know, they'll offer vocal support for the Arabs,

but it ends there with vocal support. That's it. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know better than anyone. There are many different kinds of Muslims, right? So the Palestinian Muslims, particularly the ones in Gaza, how are they going to relate to? their Muslim brothers from South Asia.

I mean, not to mention, aren't they going to be seen as an occupation force that is doing the bidding of the Zionist entity? There's always the possibility that that would be the case. But the Gaza Palestinians are Sunni Muslims. The Pakistanis are almost entirely Sunni Muslims, a handful of Shia, but they tend not to be in the military

because they can't get promoted. so that that might be enough you know i was thinking about this when i first heard about it and i was thinking well the alternative would have been troops from tahiti right we've talked about about how or from fiji we talk about how these pacific islands provide so many peacekeeping forces and it's a major source of of income for them it makes up a great part of their budget um their cultural strangers, you know, the people from the South Pacific. At least the Pakistanis would understand Islam, would respect, you know, Palestinian women, all the stuff that that non-Muslim peacekeeping forces over the years have been accused of ignoring.

We'll not get. Yeah. So they, I mean, but what if they're perceived as, I mean, if this is being framed as an ISI-Mossad deal, anything that's seen, as being related to Israel is obviously as toxic as it can possibly get right now. But if the Saudis weigh in and endorse it, I think that'll be good enough. The Saudis aren't being viewed as, I mean, aren't the Saudis being viewed as feckless by the Palestinians? I mean, you know, given the fact that they were before October 7th, I mean, if October 7th hadn't happened, right now, there might be an Israeli ambassador in Riyadh. Yeah, that's exactly right.

The Bahrainis, the Emirates, the Tunisians, the Moroccans, even the Sudanese are indeed seen as feckless because they caved and joined these so-called Abraham Accords. You're right. If there hadn't been in October 7th, there probably would be an Israeli ambassador in Riyadh and a Saudi ambassador, at least in Tel Aviv, if not in Jerusalem. But there isn't. And so I think the Palestinians would probably hang on that. And then what about, you know, obviously the denials are coming out of Islamabad. Of course, you know, I always, I'm sure you're like me. There are denials and then there are, and then there are denials.

And this is not a denial denial. This is like a there, we have no such plans, which of course means you could be working on it, indeed have plans, but you don't, you know, you can still credibly say until you've pulled the trigger and the prime minister has signed off it's not really a plan it's just something we're discussing yeah yeah it's true of course pakistan's probably the most rumor tastics country in the world oh my god listen i gave an interview to an indian uh outlet last week all hell has broken loose in south asia i i have more death threats than i can shake a stick at and then and then the um What's his name?

Imran Khan's party issued a formal statement demanding that I apologize to Imran Khan. I apologize to the party and I apologize to the Pakistani people. And they won it in writing by the end of the day today. And I told them, and please forgive me, but I told them that I wipe my ass with their apology. And that's as good as they're getting. And then the death threats came in. shocking i can't say i'm surprised but i would definitely have someone else who you don't like start your car in the morning um 20 dollar donation thank you so much from unsung pat um just talking a little

bit back to you know back a little echo on sudan starvation one of the oldest weapons of war plus poor plus desperation equals a powder keg slash napalm just need a match looting sudan 700 days of conflict right two years civilian starving something irish heritage knows well uh one dollar donation from effuso thank you so much that's on candace owen coverage of the egyptian plane with the charlie kirk assassination john do you have do you have such thoughts i don't i don't i'm not familiar with it okay do you know anything about it no no i'm hoping you did no i'm sorry that All right, maybe FUSO can elaborate a little bit in the chat. Yeah.

We'll try to figure that. Also, thank you so much over on YouTube for the five euro donation from Rodden Gou, 9864. Regarding the Cameroon situation, man, it is all about sub-Saharan Africa. Yeah, it's dire over there. Aside from being, is there, is there, do these crises have anything in common? I mean, is there a, you know, economic or? agricultural thing going on right now in african cameroon less so uh than chad mollie and nigeria chad molly and nigeria it's it's al qaeda and its associated groups boca haram they're

just slaughtering people especially christians and what they've been doing is is just going into schools and opening fire they're kidnapping some of the children and opening fire on the adults the the teachers and administrators, or they'll, they'll herd people into churches and then set the churches on fire and then shoot anybody who tries to escape from the burning church. Lovely. Not a good situation. And it's not, it's not being covered in the American media for some reason. No, not at all, for sure.

Question from, also from a donor, Zoe Lo Rosa 211, thanks for the two bucks. Will Pakistan help Hamas, though? Well, that's a good question. It's a legitimate question. And the consensus is that they won't because the Pakistanis do as the Saudis tell them to do. And if the Saudis tell them you're going to go and be peacekeepers. And by being peacekeepers, you're also going to help Ghazan society get back on its feet. And you've got to protect the Palestinians from Hamas, then that's what they'll do.

Um, won't Hamas just roll Afghan style? I mean, they can't melt into the, into the mountains because there are no mountains. But, you know, I mean, they are in, they're completely fully embedded in a civilian society. I mean, you know, you might be a Hamas fighter all throughout the last two years and then be a school teacher during the conflict after the conflict is over and you bide your time and you wait for the call from your commander. Of course, you're not, they don't carry identity cards that say Hamas on it. Right. These are. just regular normal people who have their own roles in society besides being Hamas fighters. Again, they don't, they might even go work for the Pakistanis, right? I mean, like, I met a guy in Afghanistan in 2010, and he saw no conflict between the fact that during the day, he worked for the Northern Alliance government of Hamid Karzai as an irrigation expert. And at night, he would go out with the Taliban and blow up irrigation canals. It's the great

cycle of life. For these people, there's no conflict in that. Oh, my God, almighty. We have a question, too, about Kimberly Guilfoyle. She arrives tomorrow in Athens as the U.S. ambassador to Greece. The Greek media,

at least, is very excited about this. I will say that the Greek American press is not excited about this. But with that said, for reasons that I will never understand, Donald Trump seems to love Greece and Greece seems to love Donald Trump. And it doesn't matter if Mitsotakis is the prime minister or if there's a socialist

or Eurocommunist prime minister, Trump has gotten along with all of the prime ministers that Greece has had during the Trump presidency. And, you know, Greece has had a mix over the years of career diplomats who have been ambassador and political appointees who have been ambassador. And they like it when the ambassador has a direct line to the president. So, you know, would I have chosen Kimberly Guilfoyle? Of course not. But she is, you know, a practiced seasoned attorney, former U.S. attorney or assistant U.S. attorney.

And she's got a direct line to Trump. So we'll see how the next three years go. Zizizs Karagianas, thank you so much for the $2999, Australian dollars. much appreciated Thank you very much So yeah All right So

Just like scrolling through scrolling through All right So that's so strange There are two shows going on One on screen one in chat Oh well that's true So anyway

Well that's always true In the Rumble feed You know Sometimes the Rumble feed has nothing to do With what we're talking about And I'm like Do you guys even watch I mean, you know, hey, we're happy to be here, but what are we chopped liver?

All right. So, I mean, so I guess the thing is, how like, let's put this on to the, how likely O meter. I mean, I think, first of all, if there is an international peacekeeping force, then I could see this being a 40% chance this could happen. I don't think there's going to be an international peacekeeping force, but. think the Israelis will allow it. They don't want peace. No. Yeah, I mean, look at what they've been doing.

We should talk about how they've been fucking up the ceasefire. Yeah. Did you see today, the Washington Post reported that in a classified briefing yesterday, the State Department said that they have confirmed Israeli atrocities against Palestinian civilians. There have been so many of them that they haven't been able to go through all the different atrocities that have been committed. So why would the Israelis want outsiders, especially outside Muslims, to come in and be the peacekeepers? No, they're still not even allowing the media in, right? And it's amazing to me, I mean,

what do you make of the fact that American media organizations aren't complaining and saying, like, look, you guys didn't let us in during the war, and you should have, but right now there's this active ceasefire brokered by the United States president, and you're still not letting American reporters, you know they're chomping at the bit. I mean, I am. I'd go. I mean, like, so, like, what's the deal? Yep, exactly right.

If they're not going to let American journalists in, they're not going to let Pakistani troops in. Yeah, yeah. Well, they don't want American journalists in there because the mass graves are getting get, are being dug up right now. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not good. All right. I guess we probably, while we're on this track, do you want to talk about the Southern Caribbean? Yeah, let's do that. Another place where all you can do is shake your head right now. Yeah. So we all know what's been going on with it.

I mean, first of all, I'm not really clear on how these attacks are supposed to be pressuring President Maduro. I mean, if I'm President Maduro, of course, I'm displeased that my nationals are being blown. up like they're going out of season. But, you know, I mean, how is that like really making him think, oh, I should step, I should step away, I should run away, go into exile. I don't see it. Why? No. No, I agree with you. This is a stupid policy. And now we have confirmed what we always suspected is that nobody even knows if these people are drug runners or if these are drugboats. They're probably just innocent fishermen. You know, these bodies washed up in Trinidad and Tobago last week, or pieces of bodies washed up,

apparently from boats that the Pentagon bombed, and they appear to be just a Trinidadian fishermen. Can you imagine being at the beach, like with your family? And then, you know, someone's leg washes up? Yeah, exactly. Another thing, too, is the U.S. has long accused Maduro of drug trafficking. I think I mentioned to you, I did an investigation when I was the senior investigator in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and part of that investigation was drug trafficking through Venezuela.

There is some drug trafficking through Venezuela. That is not to say that Maduro controls it or even has any idea when and where it. it's happening. What it is, is Colombian drug planes landing in Venezuela to pick up, to drop off, unload, who knows,

and then continuing on to Africa. It's not clear cut like the administration wants you to think it is. And then we had this news from earlier in the week that the CIA tried to recruit Maduro's pilot so that

were Maduro to flee ostensibly for Cuba the plane instead of landing in Havana would land in Key West and the DEA would grab him and then take him to Miami just like we did to Noriega and charge him with international drug trafficking.

By the way, why not, out of curiosity, if you're involved in regime change, what do you give a shit where the deposed ruler goes? Why do you care if they go to fucking Havana or Russia or Saudi Arabia or Nigeria or or why isn't it like what is the point of a noriega situation i still don't even

understand what bush got out of it i think you get the you get the uh it's a trophy to put him on trial and to say that you captioned i was talking about this with doug mcgregor a couple of days ago colonel doug doug mcgregor who's very very very conservative but in a libertarian kind of way and he said that he said that maduro's not stupid first of all he's not going to go anywhere unless the United States physically invades Venezuela. And even then, he's not stupid enough to go to Cuba, that he will likely have arranged in advance to get to Moscow. Now, can he make it to Moscow without being intercepted by America or its numerous allies? That's a long trip. It's a long trip. You can ask, we can, we can, uh, we can, we can, uh,

We can ask, you know, Ed Snowden about how perilous that trip can be. Yeah, you know, thank God that he did not make it to Ecuador. So the Trump administration is asking us to, you know, basically do believe something that we know isn't true and can't be true. They say that 70% of overdoses in the United States are directly attributable to fentanyl that is processed from a cocaine that originates in Venezuela. And like, that's just not how it works. That's what they said.

No, that's not true. That's just simply not true. No. But I guess they're counting on people not really knowing about this. And then I got to Google that while we're talking because that's preposterous. And then congressmen are, yeah, this was what they said. And then like both Democrats and some Republicans are starting to ask questions like from the, you know, the defense or war department.

or whatever the fuck it's called now. They go, they went into, you know, they had this classified briefing. They're supposed to be told exactly what's going on. And the, you know, the DOD admitted, we literally don't know who we're killing. No, they don't know. They don't have any idea.

So how can there be any legal basis for that? Yeah. It's just murder. Plain and simple. Do you think anyone will ever, do you think like if we had like a, you know, president, President AOC, that anyone would ever be held accountable?

I mean, no one was ever held accountable for CIA torture. Obama made sure of that within a day or two of taking office. Yep, exactly. No one's ever held accountable. That's just how that works. You can do whatever the fuck you want. No, no one's ever held accountable. Hey, I'm looking at the DEA's fact sheet on fentanyl right here.

And fentanyl is not made from cocaine. No. Period. It's mixed with cocaine and with every other drug that's out there. Cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, it's mixed with everything. You can even put it in a nasal spray. 42% of all pills confiscated at the border contained fentanyl. 42%.

That's insane. Yeah. And it says 42% of all pills tested for fentanyl contained at least. two milligrams of fentanyl which is considered to be a lethal dose oh jesus yeah i mean well this is like i mean it's like the if you remember the of course obviously in the 80s um angel when they when drugs would be spiced with angel spiked with angel dust to make them mcc to make it a little more interesting quote unquote um i don't know you know the drug i mean i knew quite a few serious drug addicts at that time and i don't think they were ever

needing or desiring that you know i mean honestly it's a it was a flaw in the marketplace and i don't mean to be dry about that i just don't think it's something that drug users really wanted uh you know drug users want to know what they're getting yeah they do um just like any other consumers my brother-in-law died of a of a fentanyl overdose um wow and you know he didn't mean to he thought he was just going to smoke some meth like he smoked every day and um And 15 minutes later, he was dead. And that was it. Jesus.

Yeah, 36 years old. Jesus. What horrible. I hate drugs. So, well, let's talk about, should we move on to the domestic situation? Sure thing. All right. So tomorrow's November 1st.

People are going to start losing their health care. And poor people. I guess the question is, does anyone care about poor people? But 42 million Americans are going to lose their food stamps slash snap benefits. Republicans, they might be singing a different tale, but you and I both know they're scared to death. There's that poll we talked about. It's the latest Ugo economist poll that shows 20% of adults under age 30, liked Donald Trump a lot. Sorry, 50% liked him a lot back in February.

now only 20% like him. And even it's, I mean, and the same, and those numbers are not quite as dramatic, but pretty damn dramatic for the 30-something crowd, the millennials. You know, obviously, like you said, we know the president's nervous. So the big takeaway here is yes, just now Donald Trump is calling for the nuclear option. So not to, not nuclear.

weapons or nuclear powered missiles, but, you know, by the way, I want to thank you, thank the listener who pointed out that nuclear powered missiles don't have to be nuclear weapons themselves. Right. That's very true. We weren't clear about that yesterday. Yeah, that's true. And, but, but like, so he wants, basically they want to get rid of the filibuster.

For foreign, uh, viewers, the U.S. Senate has a rule that goes back, that's been controversial for a long time, that says that, um, basically you can. You can keep the Senate in session, and basically you can't really truly close the deal unless you get 60%, not a simple majority of the vote. You need 60, you need 60 votes, not 50 votes. And basically what that allows is a minority in the Senate to gum up the works. Traditionally, that's been the Republicans, but certainly Democrats are doing it now, and that's why we have a shutdown. Donald Trump basically is calling for the end of the filibuster. That would have some dramatic long-term political implications.

I want to be clear, Democrats started this shit when they pulled the nuclear option on Trump's, on the Democratic Obama's judicial nominations. And they thought, literally, they said, oh, don't worry, Republicans will never get to avail themselves of this because Democrats will literally be in power forever. They literally said that. You can look it up. I want to punch the corpse of Harry Reid right in the face. That was his idea. Idiot. Fucking idiot.

So like the point is... Did you see the interview today that John Federman did with CNN? Oh, no. I try to avoid that, speaking of drug addicts. He's another one I want to punch in the face. He said that Democrats have to stop acting like children and just vote for this budget. But then, but then, okay. So John Federman, who has health issues, should be able to relate to people who have health issues, who need health insurance.

You would think. And so, you know, I mean, the dude had a stroke. I mean, you know, if you have a stroke, I mean, I literally, okay, so I have a cartoonist colleague about a month ago. He's a little younger than me. He had a stroke. His entire right side is paralyzed. He's facing, he's about to become homeless. He posted on Facebook that he's, he's a little younger.

that he has no idea where he's going to go, that the rehab is about to throw him out on the street. He has no one to take him in or take care of him. And he can't work. Yeah, right, exactly. So then what? So you throw a dude with the right side of his body doesn't work. You know, John, you know what I would do?

I would literally go to, I would be one of those nonviolent bank robbers where, you know, people have done this. They like, I need to go to prison. So I have a place to stay. And they, you know, they walk into the bank and they say, please give me all your money. And then they wait patiently for the police to arrive. And they say, you know, I needed to be arrested. Please take me to prison because I would be homeless.

I have no way out. I think I told you that one of my cellmates, he was the last one of my cellmates to move in. He was from Pittsburgh, nice guy, perfectly normal, totally normal guy. And I asked him what he was in for. And he said, oh, that he had a conviction years ago. and he had already done his time. But every year at the start of winter, he intentionally violates his probation

so that he can spend the winters in jail, in prison. He said that he otherwise lives in a tent along the Ohio River. And, you know, it's cold in Pittsburgh. And so he intentionally violates. He gets sent back for six months. And he says, I get three meals a day. I get a warm bed and I get free medical care. So better to be in prison than in a tent, you know, in a van down by the river as the old

Saturday Night Live Skit goes. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think it's, I think, I think your old, I don't know, colleague, your old, your old buddy, you know, smart guy. Yeah, he's working a fucked up system. Yeah, you know what he did? He was one of these carnies. You know, he ran the carnival rides. They're all convicts, and most of them are pedophiles.

So he was selling drugs from the carnival. And because he was crossing state lines going from state to state to state selling drugs, it was a federal charge. So he did seven years, and he gets 10 years probation. And so every winter, he just violates so you can get back in. I mean, okay. So, John, I'm glad that the conversation went in this way, because this is really the big question I wanted to ask you. So here's the thing. It's a factoid now, but one eight, this crisis reminds us, and one out of every eight Americans is on food stamps.

In some states, it's one out of four, ironically, Republican states. And I'm not going to, and I'm not one of those people who's like, well, you get what you deserve because you voted for these people. We don't even know that. Those people might have all voted Democratic, right? But the point is, what does it say? I mean, how can you be rah-rah, USA, number one, what a great country we have? Let's tell other countries, you know, let's share our values so that they can have one-eighth of their country living in abject poverty. By the way, this is not the whole state of poverty, right?

There's lots of people who are working poor, who don't qualify for food stamps or don't want them, don't apply for. it. There's lots of people who are too marginal and sleeping like outside who are not going to get, who are not in the system also. So this is just a subset of the poverty in this country, which is really more like one out of four. So people are, I mean, one out of eight Americans is on food stamps. To me, I would be like, what the fuck is wrong with our country? If I'm a, if I'm a congressman or a senator, why are we not doing? anything. Why did, I mean, why is that like not a statistic that just makes like Donald Trump himself say, what the fuck? Why does that not make John Federman say what the fuck? Why does that not make

Lester Holterman say what the fuck? Should say what the fuck because he was the mayor of Braddock Pennsylvania, which is one of the poorest, most crime-ridden cities in the entire state of Pennsylvania. He knows better. You know, Ted, in, in 2011, sorry, 2012 in January, I was arrested in mid-January, and just one week after my arrest, I was sitting at the dining room table with my wife, and she had a calculator, and then she looked up at me, and she said, I don't see how we can afford to buy food next week. Jesus. And I said, are we in that bad of shape already? And she said, yeah, everything that we have we gave to the lawyers last week, and I don't think we have enough money for food. So the next day, we went to the welfare office in Arlington County, and we qualified for literally everything, including a $90 monthly cash supplement because she was breastfeeding.

And we had two kids at home. And I still had two kids, two other kids that I'm paying child support for at the time. So we were on food stamps for nine months until she finally found a job in October of that year. And thank God for that. Yeah. So Fetterman knows better. Federman should know better. Federman should be saying exactly the opposite of what he's been saying.

And not just, you know, yesterday and today with CNN, but really for the past two years. And if he's not going to help poor people feed their families, then, you know, maybe it's time to primary this guy. Well, and also, I mean, the Republican posture, I mean, even if you're working 55 hours a week and you don't follow all the details, right? I mean, you hear the Republican say, agree to our plan and then we will negotiate with you afterwards. Everyone knows. That's not how anything works, right? It's like, so, I mean, I guess the only exception to that is if you go into the hospital to get a operation, because it's going to cost whatever. they bill you and they don't tell you in advance.

If you're like, hey, how much is this appendectomy is going to be? Right. They literally can't tell you. They literally won't tell you. It's like, mm-hmm. It's like, you get the bill and you pay. Tough shit. It sucks to be you.

If you have to ask, you can't afford it. Yep, that is it. Unsung Pat is making an important point here that in 1973, the wealth gap was the smallest and the middle class was the strongest. First of all, God bless Richard Nixon and his economic policy. number one. Number two, starting with Dwight Eisenhower and going through Nixon, tax rates were the highest against the wealthiest people.

And so, I mean, of course, you had the same rateoffs and such that, you know, we see today. But the basic tax rate for the wealthiest people was upwards of 75 percent, and they could whittle it down from there. Well, now they pay almost nothing to begin with and whittle it down from there. And then you can't understand why our deficits are so enormous and why there's such a wealth gap. That's why there's a wealth gap. I'm glad you brought up Richard Nixon, who, just to be clear, was exactly the kind of president who I was supposed to and did hate at the time. Exactly. But, you know, honestly, I remember wage and price controls. My mother was making $8,500, a year as a school teacher.

And, you know, the price of sugar was five, was $5 for five pounds, which was a lot at the time. A lot. I remember the sugar crisis. And when wage and price controls kicked in, thanks to Richard Nixon, my mom said, I hate that man. I hate the Vietnam War. I hate him. But, you know, he saved my life.

I don't know how we would survive, if not for these price controls. There is a conspiracy theory. I'm sure you've heard it. It's actually, you know, kind of percolumbular. it's pretty high into among historians that Watergate was really kind of orchestrated by the corporate powers that be as a sort of coup d'etat to get rid of Richard Nixon because they were so pissed about wage and price controls. Wage and price controls. You know, one of my earliest memories, my dad came home one day. I think I was four. My dad came home one day and he said to

my mom, honey, I got a raise. And she said, you did. And he shows her this letter. And he was making $6,800 a year. And then I remember my mom saying, just imagine, honey, if you could make $7,000, we'd be on easy street. You know, John, I was in a similar situation. I made $10,000 a year working at Bear Stearns in 1984, 85, as a trader, trainee. And I calculated that if my boss cut my pay by $12 a month, $12 a week, $12 a, yeah, $12 a pay period that I could get food stamps.

I called the food stamp office. So I went to my boss and I asked him to cut my pay. He was like, get the fuck out of my office. It's fantastic. But we were all so snotty about it. He would come around with the paychecks,

the paper paychecks. And it's like, you know, here you go, blah, blah, blah. And there were guys who'd be like, drop it in the trash like it's not worth waiting in line at the bank you know I remember that too that they used to even at the CIA they would just come with our our paychecks and flip them upside down and leave them on our chairs yeah I remember a couple things about the CIA not to get too far off the subject but I was talking to a former CIA colleague of mine and I said you know

when I started at the CIA you could smoke at your desk and then like after a year they made designated smoking areas. So all the managers made their offices designated smoking areas. Wow. So smoking was that big then. Oh, it was that big, yeah. And then there's a barber in the basement of the CIA. And when I first joined, I was like, oh, I might as well just go get a haircut at the CIA barber

instead of going halfway across town. And I went down there and they had playboys in penthouses all over the barbershop. side the CIA. That's, yeah, it's like a whole city in there, right? Yeah, yeah,

it is. And do people avail themselves of like a dry cleaner or whatever? Oh yeah, yeah, everybody does. There's even a little post office

substation in there so you don't have to go into town to mail stuff. Oh, I would love that. Yeah, it's great. I used to use it all the time.

God, the postal office, don't even fucking get me started there. It's like, what a fucking disaster. And I'm a, huge. I'm on, I'm really on team post office too. And like, yeah. My sister's husband is a, is a mailman. And he finally retired in March. He said the place is just in chaos. He just can't do

it anymore. He did 30 years. That's the end of it. Yeah, I do not blame. Um, I forget, Frazmataz says, I forgot which president, but Nixon cold closing the gold standard, gold window or whatever was a consequence of a 1960s president doing, some other econ policy change can't remember what it specifically um i thought it was this it was 1973 right um yeah it was nixon yeah i remember gold was like 35 an ounce or 38 yeah it was set at 35 dollars now yeah yeah i wish i'd bought like i know right i wish i just well i mean i was 10 years old i i had i had a paper out i could have i could have bought gold yeah yeah yeah That's right.

What else you're talking about? Yeah. Oh, Frasmatas says, I also don't, I also, I don't even blame him for Watergate. DNC deserved it. And Bob Woodward is a Navy Intel non-journalist, but spying on Pentagon papers, Guy Ellsberg, true American patriot, I think he's what he was trying to say. Yeah. Auto-correct. I hate auto-correct.

I have a colleague who is a very famous lesbian cartoonist. If you know anything about cartooning, you know who I'm talking about. you know who I'm talking about. And, well, I'll just tell you, it's Allison Bechtel. She of the Bechtel test. She did fun home. And anyway, she, so I was texting her about something. And I literally used the word pencil.

You know, as a cartoonist, you use the word pencil. And it auto-corrected, thank God, before I hit, I caught it before I had sent to penis. And I'm like, I do not want to be the guy who emails, who texts the word penis. Like, hey, did you check out my penis? Oh, yeah, my God. Oh, my God. How the way, why is, like, does autocorrect think that penis is a more often used word than pencil? I know, right?

I mean, I don't think so. Oh, my God. So, yeah, so what, so what's, yeah, I mean, obviously we're heading into this. Well, let's talk about this. Let's talk about the nuclear option. So what would be, how would that look? How could the filibuster be eliminated? Ironically, couldn't the Democrats filibuster that?

Or could it be? No. There's a parliamentary maneuver. No, yeah. It's a decision made solely by the majority leader. There doesn't have to be a vote on it because it's not a law. It's an internal rule. You know, and this was also dangerous when Harry Reid lifted the filibuster, used the nuclear option on judges.

He said, well, it's going to be fine. But he wouldn't listen to reason when people said, wait a minute, the Republicans are going to be able to force through their judges if you use the nuclear option now. No, no, it's going to be fine. They're never going to be in the majority ever again because, you know, we're so great. And then, of course, the Republicans took the Senate. If Donald Trump demands that John Thune use the nuclear option and he does it, Donald Trump is going to get his boss. budget for a year or two or even three maybe, but when the Democrats control the White House and the Senate, and you know it's going to happen because it always does, the Democrats are

going to be able to do anything they want. So this is an extraordinarily short-sighted pronouncement from Donald Trump that Thune has to use the nuclear option. Now, Thune, I doubt it. Foon is not a big Trump fan. He'll say the right things to keep the MAGA people off his back. But he's not a big fan of Trump. And Thune has a better historical understanding of why the Senate needs to keep the filibuster. It's to preserve the rights of the minority. And he knows that they're going to be in the minority again.

Obviously. Yeah, no question. I mean, you know, could happen relatively soon, not next year. But it definitely, you know, I think could happen in. in three years for sure no question yeah not not next year but it could happen in three years absolutely that's i mean that's the thing it's like right the senate's all about the long game right i mean these are people with six year terms um it's it's a institution with long historical memory people who serve it's not at all weird or unusual to serve for decades so they know that like

you know don't trump's there now but don't be there for forever um Yeah, I mean, just, I mean, obviously, I mean, yeah, if I were the Republican, Republican senators, I'd be very, very nervous about this. But I guess the thing is, John, isn't it a little unusual in parliamentary systems, even in bicameral ones, to have an equivalent of the filibuster where, I mean, obviously, we don't have the Mr. Smith goes to Washington thing anymore where you, you know, even when Cory Booker did it, it was kind of fake. and he was doing it too. But, you know, having to wear the astronaut diaper and piss in your pants or whatever you do. But, like, still, it's an unusual situation, right, to not have a simple majority prevail. It is. You know, and it evolved.

It's not in our Constitution. It evolved over time. You know, I mean, what are the pros and cons of having, obviously, minority rights? You know, you can't run roughshod over the minority and you want to have policies not just squeak through you want them to have a be based on broader consensus than 50% yes right now you can really see it the importance of that and on the downside it uh it it well in in my mind to tell you the honest to god's truth i i don't see a downside it protects the rights of the minority um on the downside it also leads to gridlock and yeah and obstructionism so there's that obstructionism sure

like for example yeah i mean it's true that what the republicans were doing to obama's judges was really wrong yeah it was and and what that evil asshole mitch mcconnell did by denying obama his his final supreme court nomination the democrats it may take years but the democrats are going to get revenge for that although you know and i agree with you for 100 but i know i also don't forget of Obama for kicking off to for kicking off to Martha's Vineyard while that was all happening and just like I'm good see you in six weeks it's all fine whatever

Hillary will win remember you said that Hillary will win so it'll all be taken care of that was the other thing right I'm not worried about the election results easy peasy we all woke up on election morning and Nate Silver had her chances of winning at 90%. You could like watch that. I remember that 90%. I remember Nate Silver having to eat crow afterwards.

I can't believe that guy even still has a job after that. I mean, think about the shit. Think about the shit. I mean, you know, you've got like, you're getting death threats over that thing with the Pakistanis. I mean, Nate Silver, he really fucked up and nothing happened. He really did. Let's talk about this judge.

I mean, so today, I don't know if this may even be happening while we're on the air right now. But this judge yesterday signaled that Indira Talwani does not believe the Trump administration's basically argument. They don't want to release the emergency funds. There's $5.3 billion that Congress set aside in case there was a problem. paying out snap. Now, to be clear, that will not cover the month of November. So the government was arguing that it would be a logistical nightmare. I'm like, really, you guys have trouble with pro rata? You guys can't say, you guys don't know the arithmetic of $5.3 billion divided by whatever the normal November is thing equals such percent. And that's how much you get. I don't know if I

trust this government to send people out to outer space. But, okay, that said, they, you know, the government was saying, well, it's only meant to be released if as a supplement. But it's like an emergency fund isn't a supplement. It makes, so the judge is going to overrule. Will the administration ignore her or appeal to SCOTUS or? Oh, yeah, they'll appeal, they'll appeal quickly, which is funny because they make no secret of the fact that they're, that they're, that they're trying to create a cut out to pay servicemen and women their their salaries forget the poor people they want the military people to get their pay but yeah i i i think it's going to be i think it's going to be an issue and that the administration's going to challenge it they'll

appeal either to the the circuit court or they'll go straight to uh to the supreme court and what will the so i guess the question is is that will the supreme court say this is an administration prerogative and they can do what they want or will they you know it's just so hard to say you know i yeah i mean you know my my position on feeding poor people but i i'm not sure that she has the authority to do this okay so i guess the next question is i mean of course there's the broader question of if Congress allocates funds, do they have to spend it? We're out of time, unfortunately, but we will have, we'll know by Monday what's happening and what the results look for, look like.

For those of you who are facing this cutoff, I'm very sorry and I'm ashamed of our country. I just want to say that. Anyway, thanks everyone for liking, follow, and sharing the show. we're deprogram with Ted Roll and John Kiraki we're here Monday through Friday 9 a.m. Eastern Time stay tuned.

We will be I'll be staying on the air with Manila Chan with the TMI show we'll be having a special Halloween thing talking about America's love affair

with horror movies. Thanks everyone. Bye John. Bye everyone. Bye you later. Bye, Ted. Thank you.