DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou: “Now Trump’s Robbing Banks”

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

On the “DeProgram” show with political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou, we dissect the most urgent global and domestic issues with incisive clarity and de-program you from propaganda. • Trump Takes DC: Rumors of a Trump-driven federal takeover of Washington, DC could end “home rule.” Congress may impose sweeping control, citing crime, governance—and “Big Balls.” • Lone Star Chaos: Texas faces intensifying political clashes, as Democratic state leaders resist federal overreach on voting rights. Recent gerrymandering efforts by both parties threaten electoral fairness. • Trump Robs the Banks: First the colleges. Then the law firms. In his latest shakedown, Trump accuses banks of discriminatory practices against him personally (of course) and conservatives in general. • Japan Wants to Re-Arm: At this 80th anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s bombings, the Japanese increasingly believe the post-World War II constitution, which guarantees a peaceful Japan, is obsolete. • Trump Takes Over Gaza Aid: Trump’s envoy, Steve Witkoff, says the US wants to take over control of Gaza humanitarian aid, raising fears of sidelining Palestinian autonomy, exposing Israeli genocide and putting US troops in harm’s way. • Israel-Palestinian Statehood (some exceptions apply): Recent recognitions by France, the UK and Canada give hope to Palestine, but two of those carry some big conditions. • Bennett’s Warning: Former PM Naftali Bennett calls Israel a “leper state” in the US, citing growing isolation. • Israel Censors Bomb Damage: Iran’s 12-day strikes on Israel face heavy censorship, obscuring the conflict’s real toll. Reports suggest

Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining us. It's Wednesday, August 6th, 2025. You are watching D-Program with Ted Roll and John Kirooku. Welcome back. Full slate here to get into, John. Always a pleasure. Always look forward to this. Oh, Ted, just since we texted each other this morning, there's been like an entire show's worth of extra stuff that has happened over the course of the day. All right. So let's plow into it. In no particular order, really. Let's just go. get into it. I mean, you've, so Donald Trump is threatening to take over to re-federalize Washington, D.C. You sort of shared a little bit of that history last time, but maybe you could do it again. There's a new background, yeah. I didn't really know the history. I went back and read it,

but it is fascinating. But basically, you know, Washington, D.C. is under home rule, as it's called. Yes. Yes. Maybe explain what that is. And Trump is basically, really agitated about crime in the nation's capital for a specific reason because of big balls yes because of big balls that's right so big balls is the doge douche who uh got really famous because of his nickname he's been all over social media and all over cable television uh and comedy shows and stuff and big balls got carjacked him and his girlfriend and uh he did by 10 youths uh or so uh two are in custody I mean, all kidding aside, that's no fun for anyone. No, and they beat this shit out of him, too.

And he nobly defended his girlfriend. So the man has big balls. He's earned his nickname, for real. And with Trump, it's always personal. If he knows someone personally involved or he cares about them, they're a celebrity. Then he's pissed off. So take it away, John. So Washington, D.C. license.

plates, say taxation without representation, because that's a fact of life here. If you live in Washington, D.C., you pay federal income taxes just like everybody else, but you don't get a voting member of the House or two voting members of the U.S. Senate. So you're just out of luck. until 1971, Washington, D.C. was governed by a congressional committee, the committee on District of Columbia Affairs, it was called. And then in 1971, the federal government under that paragon of liberalism, Richard Nixon, gave D.C. what is called home rule. Home rule means D.C. has a mayor who is actually the mayor of the city, and it has a city council, and it has neighborhood councils and has all these different bodies that run the city on a day-to-day basis. Donald Trump doesn't like that. Donald Trump wants the Republican House of Representatives to take over D.C. again. And that idea, which is a terrible idea, got some energy when Big Balls was apparently a couple.

costed by 10 kids, 14, 15, and 16 years old. There was a picture of him on Truth Social. They beat the hell out of him. And he's just, he has no shirt on and he's just soaked in blood. It's a disgusting picture. But there's more to the story that came out this afternoon. Somebody leaked to the Washington Post that in the last couple of days, Trump held a secret meeting at the White House to discuss ways to.

Sees control of the New York mayoral race, throw Mamdani out of the country, and take over the government of New York. What? Yeah. Now, that's not going to happen. It is patently unconstitutional. It's the very definition of fascism. It's not going to happen. But he's trying to figure out ways to make it happen.

It's far easier to do in Washington, D.C., because there's a long history of federal intervention. Right. In fact, even during the city in the same way that New York is. It's not. And then even during Home Rule, when Marion Berry was the mayor, he was mayor four times. And he was, you know, snorting crack and cheating on his wife and drunk at city council meetings. He would pass out. The federal government didn't do away with Home Rule, but it seized budgetary authority.

And so And so for a period of four years, the government turned budgetary authority over to a guy who was a CPA. His name was Anthony. Oh, shoot, I forget his name. Anyway, he was just a nerd. And he ran for mayor and won and was an absolutely fantastic mayor, Anthony Williams, Anthony Williams. And so D.C. got home rule back in its intensity. entirety. Now Trump wants to take it away. This thing with the Mamdani, I mean, let's, let's call

a spade here. This is only because Mamdani is a Muslim and he's democratic socialism. Well, and yeah, but first of all, there's no legal basis for deporting Mamdani. He's a U.S. citizen. Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, I guess you can, I mean, you can deport a naturalized citizen as my mom, who was a naturalized citizen, constantly reminded me. You know, she was like, if they want, they can take it away. That's not true in other countries. Like, I'm a naturalized French citizen. That's right.

But, you know, I can run for president of France. There's no second-class citizenship there the way we have. That's right. So, yeah, so, I mean, what does this mean? I mean, what does it say about the mental state and the political ideology of the president? I know, right? Entertained such a thought. I mean, you know, one of the commenters said the riots would be insane.

and that is for sure. I don't think you'd have to go back to the draft riots of the Civil War. I mean, the city would burn. I mean, it's like, I mean, Montani is, I mean, people like me would join the riots. I mean, it's like, Maldani's really popular. It's the will of the people.

He's going to be the mayor. And, you know, trying to keep Mayor Adams in is already a shocking move by the estate. because he's so unpopular. If they backed Cuomo, that would be a little bit more understandable. Yeah. And I think it's, Ted, you have much more experience with this than I do. But it seems increasingly clear to me, day after day after day, that Mamdani is going to be the next mayor of New York.

There's no question. Just today, John Katsimates, the second richest man in New York, he owns Gristidis and Red Apple. And wah-wah and, yeah, supermarket chains. He's the biggest developer in Brooklyn, where Trump is the biggest developer in Manhattan. He endorsed, well, not really. All that wealth, but it can't buy him good looks. No, it can't. No, poor guy.

He's the ugliest man you've ever seen in your life. He really is. He's a minus one out of ten. Yes, in fact, I'm going to show you something. So while I'm talking, I'm going to look for it. So he endorsed Cuomo today. and to me that is a message to Eric Adams that buddy you really need to drop out of the race and he's not dropping out of the race let me see if I can yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he looks pretty

good because he's dark there you can't see much of him to not see him is to love his looks yeah so um he's not going to make me reconsider my heterosexuality let's put it that way yeah Yeah. He's a nice enough guy, but anyway, he's kind of a Republican. He's kind of an independent, whatever. He's an independent Republican. But he did not endorse Eric Adams, who's the Republican nominee. Or no, he's not the Republican nominee. It's Curtis Lewa. Right. Eric Adams, Eric Adams is the sitting Democratic mayor who did not present himself in the primaries because he was so unpopular. He's at single digits in the polls. nine percent he was gonna get his ass kicked by a guy nobody'd ever heard of um no with a funny name with a funny name yeah don't mess with the zoron don't mess with the zoron and he ended up uh yeah so the dude is uh so they're they're losing it there uh in the establishment over a mondani completely let me ask you a question today's new york post had three different

editorials condemning mumdani it's every it's every It's because they're panicking. So one of the things that they keep focusing on is his earlier support for the defund the police movement. Right. Is he serious about defunding the police? And what does that actually mean? Because it's my understanding that it doesn't mean actually defunding the police, but it means transferring some of the budget for some police activities to other.

law enforcement organizations, county sheriffs, for example. Well, so, yeah, I mean, New York doesn't really have much in the way of county sheriffs. We do have one, but we do have it, but it's like you never see them. Right. It's not like L.A. And you don't have a transportation police. We used to. Yeah, Giuliani got rid of the transit police.

I feel like it was a real blow to public safety because these were people who knew the subways inside and out. They could turn, they knew they could chase a suspect into the tunnel. They knew how to turn off the power, where to go, and all that. They were experts in the subway, and crime in the subway has just not felt manageable ever since. Okay, but yes, the defund the police movement that Mandani supported at the time, which he's now backed away from, because of the bad messaging, was to move some resources from police departments in general, the NYPD in particular, over to social workers who do a lot of the, I mean, a lot of cop work is work that cops shouldn't be doing. They don't want to be doing. Like dealing with mentally ill people. For example. And the cops aren't good at it. They don't. enjoy it. It's not why they joined the force. So you send social workers out to, hey, dude,

it's cold. Let's go to a shelter tonight. Come with me. It's going to be all right. You know, that's what they, they were going to move that, those assets over. It would have reduced funding for the NYPD, but it would, they would have also had fewer responsibilities and they would have had, you know, been able to focus more on crime. You know, basically it was taken as defund the police like get rid of all it started out as an academic paper right and right and basically it ended up as what you know what's on a title of an academic paper doesn't doesn't make a good slogan on a protest sign at a demonstration where you know things need to be easy to understand and you don't need to explain it that's right so yeah now i mean mom daddy's he's not a radical

i mean he's he wants to freeze the rent um that's not a big deal in a in a city where the rents have been leaping by it's quite a popular position well and the rents are sky high i mean john i i mean you haven't been to my place but uh you know i have a two-bedroom apartment on the upper west side of manhattan i think five thousand one hundred dollars a month um you know it's it's that's people say oh but that's market i'm like yes it's market that's the problem but we also have 700 000 people left during covid there's warehouse departments all over the city and you know there's all sorts of problems with the system But anyway, the point is the other.

And the other thing is free buses, which wouldn't really cost the city that much money. Well, Washington started doing that. The buses transferred for free from the subway anyway. That's right. Washington started doing free buses a year ago, June, and it has been seamless. Now, free gross, he must have put one free sort of nonprofit, not free, non-profit grocery in each of the five boroughs. So we're talking about in a city of eight million people, five,

supermarkets. I don't think that's going to really, it's probably not going to work. I hate to say this because I love that idea as a leftist, but I dug, I rolled up my sleeves. I looked into the history of how this work has worked in other cities in the past. And generally the margins on grocery stores, as your friend, the grocery magnet could probably say, are very, very low. And you have to have vast economies of scale that unfortunately, you know, a five little stores aren't going to have. So it'll probably fail. But, you know, it's not a radical, it's an experiment to try one per borough, right?

I mean, there's 2.7 million people in my borough of Manhattan here. I mean, you know, we're not all going to that one store. Sorry. Ted, how do you look so healthy? And with this light, I look like I'm dead. I have a light here, and I just don't know. Is it a, do you have a fluorescent or what is it? No, it's like one of those bars that it's supposed to,

to be dark. Oh, it's the LED, maybe. I have natural light, but it's filtered, courtesy of the Canadian wildfires. It's filtered through a layer of haze. I don't know if you guys are getting that in D.C. Not, not yet, but we got it last summer, and you could smell it in the air. It just chokes you. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm suffering. I'm hurting. I have asthma. I'm not a happy camper when this happens at all. Let me, let me add one more thing about, uh, John Katsimadidis. He made this idiotic statement to the Greek-American paper, the National Herald last week, that if Mamdani is elected mayor, he's going to leave and he's going to move to St. Petersburg, Florida, where he's building the tallest residential,

you know, 100-story residential condo thing in the state of Florida. Bye. Yeah. Okay. Go. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Just go. The New York Post has been editorializing repeatedly that, you know, New York is its billionaires. If the billionaires leave, we'll all be screwed.

You know, I think a lot of us, 7.9 million of us, we'd like to check that out and see if that goes. We'll beg for forgiveness and ask you to come back if it's going to doubt we're all broke. Sure. But I'm somehow doubting that that's going to be the case. Yeah, I have to agree. This city's been around since the 1600s, kicking ass and taking names the entire time. That is right.

I mean, you know, they call it New York fucking city. for a reason. So whatever. So, yeah, so I guess so, so, look, so D.C. though, the D.C. thing, unlike the New York City thing, that could actually happen, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

It could actually happen, which would be a very bad thing. But Trump knows there's no way for, for Washingtonians to defend themselves. They just can't do it. And then we've got this, I say, we. I live just outside. Isn't D.C. kind of ungovernable? And I mean, wouldn't that be like an unwinnable job for, I mean, we're going to be talking later on about Trump's plan to take over aid delivery in Gaza. Yeah.

What's what Trump trying to take over do these things that really no one can do? Ridd pointed out when we first started talking about Washington that Southeast Washington is one of the most dangerous shitholes on the East Coast. That is absolutely true. It is a fucking national embarrassment. A national embarrassment, ungovernable, unsecurable, don't go there, even during the daytime. So why does Trump want to take that on? You know, there was this announcement that the Washington, I'm sorry, that the New York Post had on its front page this morning saying, oh, my God, shootings in New York are at their lowest level ever in recorded history, which isn't true. It's like their lowest level in seven years.

okay great congratulations to eric adams and his nine percent support but what about washington you want to take that on that doesn't make any sense i mean look okay well you're look you're a washingtonian um what do you think i mean what do you think is the solution to dc's big crime problems and they are real yeah they are real um i think that they have to well it's it's multifold the answer is multi-fold number one they have to address homelessness the homeless situation since covid has been absolutely ridiculous that's a good comment it should be rebranded to back up the police that is so that is a great idea that is really good that is a great idea then you then the police unions would be on your side that's right that is right yeah i mean honestly

I mean, you know, I'm not on team cop, but I have sympathy. I'm a human being. I know cops and a lot of them are trying to do a good job. And, you know, and honestly, they shouldn't be social workers. Look, no little boy or little girl ever wanted to become a cop thinking like, I'm going to deal with gross homeless guys. Right. No. So number one, you have to deal with homelessness. But you also have to push, strongly push education and vocational training. Because, yeah, how do I do that, Spectrum? How do I do that with the white balance? This light is on its darkest setting, and I don't know what to do. I have to experiment with it. We'll work on that later. Yeah, maybe, yeah, I would ask, that's when I don't know what to do, I ask AI. That's a great idea.

I'll ask, I have an LED light. It's making me look white and washed down. Meanwhile, I look oily. I mean, if I look any swirtherer, I could be picked up by ice. I don't know. I'll figure this out. Oh, no, now I made it worse. So anyway, you've got to do something about vocational training

because you can't just have people living generation after generation after generation on the streets like this. No. It's not tenable. Well, and it's gross. You know, you see in other countries, you don't see this. You know, they don't, whether it's now or during the Soviet period, It wasn't like that in Moscow or St. Petersburg.

Well, you couldn't. They would die. It's just ridiculous. All right. Well, speaking of local governance, should we talk about Texas? Yeah. So that's still going on. The Texas governor, Greg Abbott, wants to fine the runaway Democratic legislators.

Meanwhile, there's talk about. He wants to remove some from office. He's threatened to, you can't do that. If he did, would that lead to special elections or would that lead to? That's what they would try to do. Or would he try to install a bunch of Republicans to replace them? I don't see how you could because these are democratic strongholds. And we're talking about seats in Austin, San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas.

Well, if a U.S. Senate seat comes up open, though, the governor can fill it, can fill it, right? Yeah, but I don't think that's the system in Texas. I think you have to call a special. election. But just as you predicted, J.B. Pritzker welcomed these legislators to Illinois with open arms, and most of them are hiding in Illinois. And he actually gave them police escorts so that nobody from Texas can find them and try to kidnap them and bring them back. Apparently, there was a death threat or some kind of threat against the hotel where they're purportedly staying. Yes. There was a threat against the hotel. I mean, you know, that's nuts.

Not surprised. And New York, again, as we predicted, New York, California, and Illinois are moving forward on their own redistricting to countermand the Texas redistricting. There was something that was so interesting on TV today. What's the White House Chief of Staff's name? Oh, that woman, the blonde. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she forget her name. She, I do, too.

Yeah, she was on Fox today. and I'm sorry she was on CNN today and the interviewer said why Susie Wiles that's it Susie Wiles thank you thank you said so why is the president doing this and she said that he's only doing what the Constitution mandates that he do and and the interviewer said no the constitution mandates that these district lines be redrawn every 10 years after the after the census and they're always drawn you know census is always in a zero year and they're always redrawn in time for the oh two election or the the two election the next two yeah yeah yeah and um and she said but he's mandated to do this for the republican party and the interviewer

is like isn't is that it was unusually honest and the interviewer i don't remember who it was said but isn't he supposed to represent the american people Well, there's no pretense of that at all. I mean, I have not in this term heard President Trump, correct me if I'm wrong, one time expressed the thought that he's the president of all the American people, whether or not we voted for him. Yeah. Which is a standard thing that presidents say, even if it's not really true.

Well, look what he tried to do with FEMA day before yesterday. He ordered this memo to be circulated at FEMA that, disaster funds were not to go to any state that voted blue. Or any state or municipality that refuses to do business with Israel. With Israel. That was the second part of the memo. And finally, cooler heads prevailed two or three hours after the memo was leaked and it was finally retracted. But this is not good at all. I will say, though, Donald Trump you know that old saying the broken clock is right twice a day totally he did something recently

that was so freaking inspired and brilliant i can't believe he did it he named a new deputy director of the bureau of prisons right the bop one of the most notoriously corrupt and dysfunctional and broken organizations in all of government it also happens to be the biggest Bureau within the Department of Justice. He named a former federal prisoner who just got out of prison. Oh, yeah. I remember this. After doing five years on a drug conspiracy charge, the new deputy director of the Bureau

of Prisons. That's fantastic. The Guards Union is going berserk. John, you might be back at Langley soon in charge at the big desk. Stranger things have happened. Director. Mr. Director. Hey, maybe Tulsi Gabbard, you know, follows me on Twitter for a reason.

Could well be. Well, they could definitely know. I mean, honestly, that is an inspired choice. It really is. I love that he did that. I do too. He said he's going to focus on prison health care and food quality. And I wanted to just stand up and start applauding this guy.

Yeah. Jason Smith. I'm into it. I'm into it. I'm into it. I want to see, I'm really seriously still crossing my fingers for some major RFK food regulations on preservatives and shit, all that nasty crap in our food. I really want him to get to get cracking.

John, let's talk about, this is one of my favorite stories. You know, as you know, I used to be a banker. And Donald Trump, he threatened the colleges and the universities. He shook him down. By the way, Harvard's pissed. because Harvard's being asked to pay half a billion dollars, and they, according to the Times, they didn't care. They're like, ah, $500 billion. What we do?

We have $93 billion in our endowment. We don't care, no big deal. But they're pissed off that Brown only had to pay 50, and it's another Ivy League school, and Columbia only had to pay 200. And they're like, why are we getting fucked over? And it's like, well, your anti-Semitism was so much worse. So ridiculous. times more than Browns or two and a half times more than

Columbia's. I mean, it's just a shakedown and they're feeling like they've been rolled because, you know, they have been, they have. They shouldn't, they shouldn't pay anything. They should say fuck off. And also it's like, you guys are, you are at Harvard. You don't own a calendar.

This guy's not going to be around in three years. Like, all you, John, you know what the courts are like. It takes forever. Oh, my God, yes. Just sue, drag it out. Wait for the fucker to die. or leave office, and it's all going to go away. Just relax. I don't understand why they're panicking.

But anyway, now he's going after the banks. So he's accusing B of A and J.P. Morgan Chase and the other big banks of discriminating particularly against, well, he says they're discriminated against conservatives. And then he told John what I thought was a super interesting story. He said that he had had major departments. Rejected or after he made the deposits, the banker called, the banks called and said, Sorry, Mr. Trump, we do not want your money. Yep.

Claimed it was hundreds of millions of dollars. Debanked. Debanked. It's just like, yeah, like a homeless guy in Mexico City. And he's saying that the banks discriminate. So now he's going to go after the banks using regulatory powers, just like he used the, he's sick, the Department of Education against the colleges. he can fuck them. He can threaten to revoke their banking licenses, and he's going to shake him down for cash also for his presidential library. It's another shakedown. So literally, he's going to rob the banks because, after all, that's where the money is, as Willie Sutton famously said.

Yeah, that's right. He did. Why'd you rob that bank, Mr. Sutton? I know the answer to this question, but I want to know if you know the answer to this question. Why do you think the bank? told him that they didn't want his money. And I actually believe that story. Yeah, he says that the Clintons and the Obama's told them to. Told them to. That's not why. Why was it?

No, because under the Gryftor. Because under the USA Patriot Act and a lot of other banking securities regulations, it's the law. If money, if major deposits are made to your account, whether you're an individual or a business, that you can't explain. in some kind of credible way, then the bank is going to, is going to, they're going to, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, so, like, for example, I moved money to, a significant amount of money from one bank to another after my mother died and she left me, uh, money. And I got a call from the bank and they said, uh, you know, I'm sorry to ask you. Can I ask you what this is, what this money is from? Well, how, how did you derive? it, what do you intend to do with it? I thought, God, what a bunch of busy bodies. What a bunch of assholes. Now, as it is, I had an answer. I just told the truth. Donald Trump obviously made some big deposits that he wasn't able to explain to the satisfaction of his bankers. That's why they kicked out the deposits. The one thing banks don't want to do is reduce their nightly float.

So it's turning your money away. It's because they're more afraid. problem yeah there's a problem so what this indicates to me is that according the bankers looked at what he did they didn't like the cut of his they didn't like the the look of where that cash came from yeah he he didn't have a good answer for them no now this is a guy who's been doing major millions of dollars banking for 50 years i mean you would think that he would know how to deal with this i mean to me this if i I just don't know if the Democrats are smart enough to pick up on this, but to me, there's a scandal here.

They're very well could be. To tell you the truth, I don't think the Democrats would even think up something like this. Or if they did, it would be so hard to implement. To look into. Yeah, sure, sure, looking into it's one thing. Something's up. Yeah, yeah, that's different. But I'm not sure that they would be able to pull it off without there being fingerprints all over.

it that that's just i think a bridge too far oh by the way i guess we should probably do a quick request to if you are you guys already know about our rumble thing please go over to rumble and also watch us over there because we literally get paid like a hundred times more so instead of like a penny for every penny we'd get like a dollar over there i mean i'm kind of radically simplifying but it is really true. If you want to support the show and you want to help John and I be able to pay our bill,

something that we currently cannot do, it would be really great if you guys would go to rumble.com, sign up, and I don't know, I can put on Robbie. Robbie, you ready to go on and do your quick pitch? Real quick, as Robbie's coming on, I wanted to say I went to the bank this morning.

I had an appointment to go to the bank this morning because I'm so broke they took a $15 monthly maintenance fee, which put me at negative $15 in my account. I tried to go back and say, guys, come on. Can you just give me back my $15? And they did. Thank goodness. So I'm back up to zero.

Oh, my God. Yeah. All right, Robbie, quick explanation. But my goal is to help break that zero problem. So a long story short, just like what Ted said, Rumble pays a whole hell a lot more. rumble also has come out with a new change effective today if you do if you want to be a rumble premium subscribers

and what that means is they're just to see all the premium content Tucker Carlson and whoever else become a monthly subscriber however if you only care about deprogram you can become a monthly subscriber on for d program for five dollars a month as opposed to 10 and see all of the premium content

that they're going to start dropping next month so that way there's no that that way the paywall is cheaper and the best part is whenever you become a monthly subscriber they keep 100% of that five dollars YouTube whenever someone becomes a channel subscriber takes 40% so rumble gives them everything so whenever ted says that rumble pays better it does pay better and also rumble will not censor what they say and speaking in monthly's monthly subscribers We've got three brand new ones on Rumble, y'all. So we got Jesse, Jesse Lee, Tyler Travesty, and then Tyler also gifted a sub-d someone over there on Rumble. So thank you. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you very much.

Robbie, thanks for that. Much appreciated. All right, I'll put the Rumble thing up there. And SOTON has a question. Selwyn, thank you very much there, man. Do you think Tulsi is stuck between a rock and a hard place? She's been real quiet about everything, especially Gaza, and she seems more like a press secretary than a DNI.

It's when you work for Trump. Yeah. I think, yeah, you've hit it on the head. I think that she's having to say some things about the White House that she doesn't really believe. I think she's had to squelch her own positions on many of these issues like Gaza just because she can't have an independent opinion now.

And this is the price of working, for a very strong personality like Donald Trump. Yeah, no question. Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to say, you know, like when you get a call like that, I mean, first of all, there's the question like, this is your president and I need you. As an American, I don't care.

You have to say yes. I feel like that's your patriotic duty. Yes. But on the other hand, I mean, regardless of who that president is, but on the other hand, it's Donald Trump. And you know, it's going to end in tears, you know? it just it always does um so all right so the so i don't know i thought that the thing i thought that was fascinating about the banks we'll watch we'll watch that story but he's going to

definitely shake him down and right now they've got to be thinking well it's not a question of when we're if we're going to pay it's a question of how much we're going to have to pay yeah yeah that's right all right so you know um when the berlin wall came down, John. I was working at Bear Stearns, and my roommate and best friend, Dan, called me up and the day that had happened, and we were talking about it. And I said, and I asked Dan, he said, what do you think? And he said, well, he said, it's kind of like the reunion tour at the time in the 80s, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. He's like, I went. He said, I didn't really like any of Germany's previous collaborations. And I'm not looking forward

to the next one. And I feel that way about the news. that this is the 80th anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima that led to the U.S. occupation of Japan and the imposition of a constitution that required them not to have a military for any purpose other than strictly defensive. And now the Japanese are really looking to rearm. There's been some predicates to this. They wanted to, it's been around. But that seems to be a really popular opinion now in Japan. Yeah, and we saw that happen to their next military operation. We saw that happen in Germany, too, right?

The Germans have an army, of course. It's either the biggest or it's either the second or third biggest in NATO behind the United States and Turkey. I can't remember which one's bigger. But their constitution prohibits them from deploying troops overseas until, of course, Bill Clinton, insisted on it and they went to uh yugoslavia and and you know had an occupation and then afghanistan after that that's right i want to thank so on again so long so done thanks again man um do we think the saudis were scared of kadafi oh yeah i could tell you with 100 percent certainty that they were scared of kadafi what were they scared about that he was going to that he was too popular and that

they were afraid that he was yes yes and he's so unpredictable and so popular at the same time. The only thing that made the Saudis back off on seeking his overthrow when he made that announcement that he was going to focus on African unity rather than on the Middle East. It saved his life because the Saudis had come to us and asked us to overthrow him by any means necessary and that they would pay for everything. Wow. Yeah.

That's a huge. That's a huge reveal. that. Yeah. And we were like, relax. We don't really have reason. This is 10 years before he was actually overthrown. Yeah. Wow. And sodomized with that bayonet on video.

That's right. Hillary Clinton cackled. We saw. Yeah. He died. Yeah. What are we? I mean, so I mean, for people who aren't aware, you should go like look up a list of Gaddafi's accomplishments. I mean, it's dramatic.

It's dramatic. Literary rate, right in in Africa, you know, basically, oh, if you had a wedding, that used to be a massive expense, the government covered your wedding. You got free college, free health care, free everything. All the oil wealth was nationalized and put towards the people. You know, yeah, of course he was wildly popular. Yeah. Yeah. He was wildly popular. And one of the things that the Americans were so afraid of is that he supported a unified currency for Africa. You know, in the Middle East, you've got the Saudis that deal in dollars and the Kuwaitis deal in dollars and everybody's buying and selling oil with dollars.

And Gaddafi's like, no, we need something like the Europeans have with the euro. And the American said, oh, my God, that's going to wreck us. That's, yeah, by the way, this is very true. What Nick Otto said changed women's lives incredibly. Even though he was Muslim, he ruled like a secular. Yeah, he did. And he famously had a coterie of female bodyguards. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you know Quentin Tarantino was influenced by that. Because they were like crazy, awesome, hot kung fu fighting ladies. Yeah. Yeah. No, I never. Was he actually responsible for Lockerbie? I always believed that he was. What was the motivation?

It was for killing his daughter when Reagan killed his daughter in 86 by bombing his tent. He wasn't in the tent, but she was like four or six or something like that. Yeah, that's right. I got into it with John, with Hannity about that exact issue. I embarrassed him because he claimed that that was in revenge for, he said that the locker bee, that killing the kid was in revenge for Lockerbie. And I was like, in that case, I said, Reagan, I said, that's what I said.

I said, Reagan must have been clairvoyant then. It's like, that's just not possible, did not happen. And they can hear them like, go to break, go to break. Yeah, no, three years before Lockerbie. Reed asks why I never converted to Islam. I studied Islam with one of the faith's most important scholars living scholars, Sayyid Hosse Nasser, from Iran. I studied Shiism mostly.

But now I'm a practicing Greek Orthodox, and I'm fascinated by the Middle East and Islam, but it's not for me. Yeah, I think, yeah. No, it's funny. Like, I had a pretty famous essay in the 90s called Choosing My Religion about a roommate who was literally trying to, she was shopping around for religions.

And, you know, Islam's just, when you're, shopping for religion randomly, Islam doesn't come up very high. You know, it's like, you end up like Buddhism ends up high. There's work involved. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And, yeah, and there's some problematic aspects to Islam. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. I mean, all religions, but. All religions, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people convert, though. A lot of people can advert, though.

Yep. You just answer that question. Oh, wait. I want to get this question. Oh, Marcel, that's a good question. Are there political views shared by almost everyone at the CIA and how much do political views vary there? You know, the one political view that everybody shared

is we all just hated the Israelis. All of us. I mean, hating them and being forced to work with them are two different things. And we were forced to work with them. But nobody liked or respected the Israelis. But I'll tell you a story that I told them. Are the all conservatives?

I assumed that they were, and I was wrong. So what I mean by that is we never, ever, ever talked about politics. It just was not a thing. It was not a part of the CIA culture. It didn't matter who the president was. We were there to serve the American people. And then on Election Day, 1992, I had been in the agency for almost three years. and most of us voted, you know, early in the morning

because you never know when you're going to get busy. You might have to stay till midnight. The president has a question or you have a briefing or whatever. So my branch chief said, I know we're not supposed to do this, but I'm really curious as to who everybody voted for. And I thought, wow, that's bold. Because I had no idea the ideologies of the people that I sat three feet away from. And I was shocked.

when we went around the little room, and it was three for Bush, three for Clinton, and two for Perrault. I was shocked by it because I just assumed I was the only progressive. Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, John, I don't know if I told you this story, but when I went at Columbia the first time around, in 84, I went to the jobs fair, and CIA had a table at the jobs fair. And I recruit, and I don't know how much, how true this was, but when I talk to them. They asked me, you know, all sorts of questions. And they said, you know, somehow the subject of politics came up. And they asked me, so do you go to any, like, socialist or left-wing meetings here on campus? I said, yeah, all of them. I said, I'm basically

a communist. And he's like, and the guy was like, he didn't, he didn't like that. It was 1984. It was during Reagan. And he said, well, that could be a problem. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm fluent in French. And just because, you know, I'm a patriot. I love my country. I mean, you know, being being left wing or right wing should have nothing to do with anything. And, you know, I would die for my country if need be. And he's like, well, maybe. But he said, mainly he said, we recruit Mormons from Utah. Lots of them. Lots of lots of, oh my God. It's like every other person you encounter is a Mormon. Because they speak these funky languages. they have they all go to language school and i think it's oh and because and because they go on

on their missionary work so you don't have to train them to speak Uzbek or tajik or whatever they already know it oh yeah and they they don't do anything in their lives so they blow right through the polygraph they blow right through the background investigation they don't even eat chocolate or drink coffee let alone you know steal stuff or do drugs And so they just sail right through the process. The FBI is the same way. It's full of Mormons. Well, so it's funny because after that happened, like 10 years later was the first time I went to Central Asia.

And I remember, you know, back then, I don't think it's true anymore. But like in the early days after independence from the USSR, all those, all the capitals of those countries had like a British pub with like CNN international piped in by satellite. And it was like the place to go if you were. you know, an English-speaking person, and you don't want to lose your mind, and you just wanted to have, like, a cold beer and, like, watch, like, something in English. And anyway, I go to the one in Bishkek in Kyrgyzstan, and it was just me and this guy. And so we started talking, and he's like, he's American. And I'm like, and he's like, I'm like, what do you do? And he's like, oh, yeah, I work in the, I work for an oil company. I'm like, really? And I work for an oil company.

And you're here. He's like, yeah. And I'm like, so how long have you been at the company, right? Because inside the company, Philip Agee. And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I go, come on. Like, you're an agent. It's okay.

I don't care. It's off the record with me, but, you know. And he's like, after a while, he's like eight years. Oh, my God. And I go, and I'm like, and he goes, how did you know? And I go, because Kyrgyzstan doesn't have any oil. You need a better cover. No. He needed a better cover is right. Right. I used to tell people, we were, we were trained to tell people something so boring that they wouldn't ask any follow-up questions.

Oh, accountancy, actuarial. Training. Yeah. Oh, I'm in the Foreign Service. I do a lot of training and some import, export, export negotiations. although import export I immediately think of weapons Oh right Well I was on a flight once from Milan to Sofia I was doing a sensitive operation So I couldn't go directly from Athens to Sofia I had to you know get a different passport And then get on a plane and go from Milan

And so I never talked to people on planes But this freaking Italian guy This big fat Italian guy was sitting next to Just question after question after question And he just wasn't taking my monosyllabic, you know, answers as a hint. So what do you do? I said, oh, I'm involved in import export. Oh, what do you import and export?

Whatever makes. Oh, me too. Yeah, whatever makes the most money. And he just wouldn't stop. So finally, I said, look, I smuggle women and cigarettes from Eastern Europe. Okay? Are you happy? And he's like, well, I don't.

think I approve. I said, I'm not asking for your fucking approval. Just mind your own business. He sat there like this, the rest of the flight. Never said a word. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that so much, John. Thank you so much for that story. It makes my day. Okay. And it's been a long day already. Okay, so. Wow. Yeah. Let's talk about, let's talk about Donald Trump, as always, because it's been about 10 minutes. So the aid situation in Gaza, we're not going to recap.

We all know it's fucked up. Gaza humanitarian, the, it used to be the international community and the UN. They were kicked out. The Israelis are like, we can do a better job.

All they do is kill the people who come to their shitty food sites. And so it's totally fucked up now. Trump says that he wants to take it over himself. Steve Whitkoff, his envoy,

says the U.S. will take direct control of distribution of humanitarian aid in in Gaza. Can I just say that, like, the devil is in the details here? You can say that again. Is he going to do this? Is this, like, how would it look like?

What are the risks that are entailed? I mean, this is the same U.S. government that tried to install, you know, a peer, and it, like, got blown away in a storm and spent millions of dollars on it and almost lost a guy doing it. I mean, how? I can't imagine that this is a real plan. First of all, we don't have the assets on the ground to be able to do it. We would have to essentially invade Gaza.

Right. Which we could, which we could, we could, and have the military do it. Right. And the Israelis would have to be okay with it because hilariously, it is occupied territory by our ally. So we'd be, you know, the Israelis would have to say okay. and they would essentially, they would essentially be, yeah, relinquishing control. That's right. That's right. We'd have to come in by land.

I mean, look, it's the U.S. We could do it, right? We could distribute massive amounts of aid, and we could do it extremely well and very quickly, I bet. That's right. And it really has to be trucked in. It can't be airdropped. Yeah. Yeah, dropping it by air just, it doesn't work.

It never works. It never has worked. No. It has to be trucked in. And the Israelis just won't let the trucks through. I mean, so to me, I guess what's more interesting than the plan, which I can't imagine once Trump hears about what would be required, that he'll go through with it, you know, like you might lose Americans, they might be shot. You know, it's also it exposes the Israelis for what they've been doing, right? I mean, if there's any doubt in anyone's mind, it's like, well, you didn't want to let free.

food in, but we can bring in food, which means you could have brought in food, and you chose not to. I mean, you already have former Prime Minister Naftali Bennett writing that Israel is now a leper state in the United States, and he's a right winger, saying that Israel's completely, that Israel's completely isolated from the world, that everybody, they've already lost the Democratic, Israel's lost the Democratic Party, they're in danger of losing the Republican Party, that the whole world hates Israel. Now, he's right. He's 100% right.

So this would just increase that narrative. I mean, to me, this is a symptom of what's going on, right? But basically, Trump looks at this and says, oh, fuck, I'm getting, my Israeli buddy is going to drag me under, isn't he? Did you see the new poll that came out from Gallup by Gallup yesterday? it was the numbers were shocking the only the only americans who support israel are americans age 55 and older that's it everybody else is going huge not just for the the Palestinians but for the iranians versus the Israelis as well so they're they're losing Americans very quickly here very quickly well yeah no i mean it's it's terrifying and then also

I wanted to talk a little bit about the situation with the statehood offers, right? So, you know, the French, they started this, and Emmanuel Macron said, okay, we will recognize Palestine. That's pretty much without strings. But Canada and the UK, lots of strings involved, right? So basically, with Canada and the UK, the requirement would be, and this is, something that like the Arab League letter said also. Basically, they'll recognize the Palestinian authority, not Hamas, that a Palestinian state,

a future Palestinian state would have to be completely demilitarized. So no military and that the Israeli security would be prioritized in that arrangement and that the new state would have to cooperate with Israel when it wants to come in. look for someone that they don't like or kill them or whatever. It's not sovereignty, right? I mean, a sovereign state has its own military. And, you know, but that seems to be like what the, what's on offer now from the West. I mean, I mean, don't get me wrong.

The Palestinians are at least diplomatically better off than they were a year ago. Sure. But it seems to me like this isn't really, this is kind of like the deal that, like, Like Zionists always say, Arrafat had a deal. He didn't take it. And when you look at the details, you're like, no one would have taken it. I mean, it was going to turn the West Bank into a bunch of Bantustans, separated into like 16 different zones.

These Israelis were going to be able to come and go as they please. They were to have no military whatsoever. I mean, it was going to be basically they were going to have the same independence as Losotho. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. That's exactly right. Now, the Palestinians don't make it any easier for.

for themselves by, I shouldn't say the Palestinians. The Palestinian authority doesn't make it any easier for itself by refusing to hold an election. I made a joke the other day on the show that Mahmoud Abbas is, you know, 19 years into a four-year term. And he's a decrepit old man and he needs to go. A million years old. He's like 90, isn't he?

Yeah, he's almost 90. He's got to go. And corruption. Oh, my God. with a capital C, that's got to end. Yeah, not to mention, you know, it gives cover. It's a Vichy, regi, is what it is. And it gives cover to the, every time Israeli settlers are in there killing the locals.

You know, John, do you hear about this crocodile story? Oh, my God. So this is wacky. So in, back in, so basically, before 2013, there was a crocodile farm that Israeli settlers created in the West Bank to basically harvest their skins and make handbags or shoes out of them or whatever. But then in 2013, it went out of business because the Israeli government passed an animal rights law that said that the Nile crocodile was a protected species.

Can't love Israel. They kill babies like they're going out of style, but the crocodiles are protected. Gotta save those. It's got to save Mr. Bighty. So here's the thing. It goes out of business. The Israeli settler who owns the farm just leaves it. Dips on it doesn't give a shit about it.

Leaves the crocodiles to their own device. Today there's 200 crocodiles there. Some of them, this place is six miles away from the Jordan River. There was concern, several of them have escaped and have made, have gone on the lamb. There was concern that they might make it to the Jordan River and attack Jordanians and cause an international incident. And I'm like, okay, so they, so they went in today and killed all 200 crocodiles. Oh my God. And the, but this is against Israeli law to do it because they're protected.

They're Nile crocodiles. Obviously, they could be returned to Egypt or whatever and dumped in the river. But anyway, so it's just a wacky story. But there's also like, so wait a minute, you guys are not just moving your kids over there and killing the locals. You're moving dangerous animals to occupied stolen land. I mean, the thing is so bizarre. Do you see the announcement from this zoo in Denmark yesterday to be, you know,

But please bring your pets that you don't want anymore because we need to feed them to the lions, you know, circle of life and all. Yeah, yeah, exactly. People are like, what? Yeah, that's right. Although, in fairness to the Danes, they said that they're not going to like take my cat and let them run around the cage while the tiger chases them. Right. They would euthanize him first. Yeah, and just toss them in there.

And then toss him in there. It's such a crazy story. I was in Addis Ababa one time, Ethiopia. And I went to the zoo because I had a half a day, you know, to do nothing. There's really nothing to do. That must have been a sad story. There were these three or four zoo workers that were like pulling and pushing this screaming donkey into the lion's cage.

And the thing is like, you know, doing everything it can to fight being pushed into the lion's cage. And then they just went, oh, yeah. and the Lions tore it to pieces. I walked out, I just couldn't. I have to admit I would want to watch that. It was bad. I would want to watch that.

They gouge you if you're a Westerner. It's like a nickel to get in if you're Ethiopian, and then it's like a dollar to get in if you're not. Those, I mean, those foreign zoos, though, they're rough, like in Central Asia or whatever. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's not up to the high standards.

Well, that's what the Central Park Zoo used to be like here in New York. It was awful. So, yeah, bad. So let's talk about more Israel stuff. So I thought this was interesting. So it turns out that in the 12-day war between Iran and Israel, that actually the Iranians blew up a lot of shit and killed some Israelis. And the damage was quite substantial.

Yes. Now, we haven't heard much about that here in the West. No. But what's coming out now is that in Israel, nobody knows. It's been completely censored. And so the Iranians, I mean, obviously, I mean, the Israelis obviously live in a very small country. I assume they all talk to each other and word gets out. But I mean, what does that say about this so-called democracy? Yeah. That information is so carefully controlled. Yeah, it's no

democracy. It's certainly no functioning democracy. When you have, what is it, a dozen different parties that are all represented in parliament. And it's literally impossible to have a functioning government that's not a coalition. And then everything is trumped by military concerns anyway on top of it. Israel is no democracy. Well, yeah. So yeah. I mean, and I think honestly, that control has been very effective. It's part of the reason that ordinary Israelis don't really know just to what extent they've become, you know, their country is a pariah. Yep. Yep. Agreed. Interesting story, speaking of Israel tangentially, but its effects here in the U.S.

So at Stanford University, they have a stool newspaper still, thank God, and a really interesting lawsuit. So it turns out the editors noticed that a lot of columnists and would-be student journalists have either refused to join the paper, refuse to submit articles or quit, and it's become a serious problem, because a lot of them are international students, and they're afraid that if they comment on not just Gaza, but anything else that the Trump administration doesn't like, that they could be deported. And they have reason to believe that because, of course, the Trump administration has attempted and has had ICE

kidnap people off the street for writing columns in the, you know, in the, in a, student newspaper. That's been enough. So the Stanford paper is now suing ICE and the Trump administration for their squelched First Amendment rights, which is, of course, the only thing that the First Amendment really is good for is protecting you from government censorship, which is usually in the past never direct, usually, right? Like my case with the L.A. Times was unusual, because the LAPD, which is a government entity, purchased the L.A. Times parent company. So it was like basically a First Amendment case by proxy.

But that doesn't usually happen. Usually someone calls the paper, it says, fire John Kyriaku, and then they do, but you can't sue the government. You can only sue your employer, and the employer is not a government entity. Here, the government entity is directly stifling the speech of the student.

newspaper. I don't know. I wish them well. I don't know if it's going to, I don't know if it's going to work. Suing government is hard. It's very hard. Yeah. But man, this is, this is so scary. And we still have three and a half years of this left. You know, and even then, will cooler heads prevail again? I don't know. This idea that you could just get rid of people whose opinions you don't like very scary and you know we forgot to mention that trump announced today he's going to meet with both putin and zolensky um oh yeah that's huge yeah that's huge that just broke yeah and uh so is it going to be at the same time or in two separate meetings no two separate meetings and and the pet the the the kremlin is saying it's because they're just tired of trump being on

they're back all the time. So they're going to at least listen to what he has to say. So this is a good thing. Oh, it's a very good thing. I mean, I wish this had happened a long time ago. Me too. So I guess, I mean, Trump usually takes a more active role in international diplomacy. We saw that with North Korea during his first term.

You know, is this one of those things where he tried, he's like, well, thank you, Steve Whitkoff, but I've got to like roll. I've got to take care of this myself. Man to man, you know, Vladimir and I can work it out. I think so. I think so. I don't think Putin will let him. Putin is not willing to be bullied. And Trump thought he could bully Putin into a settlement.

No, Putin's not bulliable. No. But I mean, what if Trump goes over there? Is there an inducement? I mean, is there a deal? Is there a structure that will work? for the Russian Federation and, I mean, presumably for the support of Ukraine as well. I used to think so.

I used to think so that the Russians get to keep the Donbass, they get to keep the Crimean Peninsula, that the Ukrainians won't be allowed to join NATO, but they would be fast-tracked in the European Union. I mean, everybody said that was the deal. And what if it was that and, like, maybe Russia pays reconstruction costs for Ukraine? Oh, that would be actually I don't know why Putin would agree to something like that, but I think the Ukrainians would jump at it. Yeah, they do.

They do from all that gas they're selling to the Indians. Yeah, and to the Chinese. Yeah, so I feel like, I mean, they could do that, right? I mean, I feel like that would be like, okay, yes, you know, you've lost territory, but you're being compensated. Yeah. It's like view it like a sale of Alaska. Yes.

Could be. Could be. That's the kind of, I mean, we know Trump, you watch the show. You're welcome. You can take that for free. Speaking of watching the show, I have a Google alert on myself. I always have. I was shocked day before yesterday to see that you and I were quoted on NPR.

No way. Yeah. I meant to send it to you. I was shocked. we were quoted i it said it said ted roll an editorial cartoonist and cia whistleblower john kiriaku discussed whatever i can actually call it up because i saved it i saved it's like what i got to tell ted about this wow that's great well we have so shocking uh if uh you mr or miss or mx npr is uh listening or watching right now thank you very much for the yeah thanks for that

appreciate it and if you ever need us as a guest one or one or both let us know that is right that is right wow so that is cool i'll find it you'll find it i saved it that's fantastic do you remember which show it was or was it like just a written piece here it is google alert uh it was it was about Palestinian food aid um and it's says here. Hold on. Open a new link. Enter. Verifying that you are a human. Okay. Full article. Doggone it. Sorry, this has taken so long. Tom, it's the graveyard book is actually John's book. Oh, yeah, that's my book. What happened to it? He wants to know. I was yelling at my editor yesterday like you guys are killing me here i sent you the manuscript three years ago

october uh april you told me at the absolute latest it would be out on july 31st and here we are in august so this is it's a three minute listen oh it's in it's entitled in gaza more palestinians are killed while awaiting food and then in the in the article um okay while you're yeah talking about the famine is unfolding and that you and i discussed it on the show that's it that's it's so random like we're a mainstream you know news source that npr turns to for uh well of course obviously goes without saying um that's amazing though so great um hey so dana wants to know, do we think Epstein was a double agent? You know, I assume you mean for like Mossad, right?

Oh, no, I think he was an agent for Mossad. It's possible that he was a double agent for the CIA. Absolutely possible. And the only reason I say that is because of Alex Acosta saying that he got that he had to give, he had to give him a sweetheart deal because Epstein was intelligence. Yeah. And what else could that mean? What does that mean? It has to be American intelligence.

It has to mean American intelligence because there are only two people that Alex Acosta would have reported to at the time. Alberto Gonzalez and George W. Bush. It's certainly possible, right? No question. Yeah. Marcel wants to know is either side, Russia or Ukraine going to budge? Both sides have reinforced their goals over and over without change over the whole war. That's true. Yeah.

But I do feel like the facts on the ground are the facts on the ground. And that's not going to change. I mean, you know, I can't think of any historical precedence where you'd have a situation like this where, for example, Ukraine would get its way and Russia would withdraw from a significant amount of territory, not after a situation like this. And conversely, I can't imagine a situation where, you know, Ukraine is going to just be like, blithely give up claim to a substantial, 20% of its territory, and be like, eh, we don't care, whatever, easy, no harm, no foul. I mean, those demands are going to remain. That's why I suggest the money thing. Then, like, it gives, it gives the Ukrainians a way to save face. That's right. You know, and I wanted to, I'm sorry to jump to another subject, but I know we're very short on time now,

but I wanted to say something. There was a very, very important demonstration in, you know, Australia a couple of days ago. That was led by Julian Assange. That was one thing that I wanted to say. He's finally getting out there and taking a leadership position in some of these things. And there's also a very important march coming up in support of Mary Kastakidis or Kostakidis, who is, I'm not over stressing this. She is the Walter Cronkite of Australia. she's being sued by a bunch of Zionist groups

for calling what's happening in Gaza a genocide and she risks actually being imprisoned for anti-Semitism for saying that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide. They have some fucked up laws in Australia. I guess those laws are obviously very similar to England's, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So, yeah, I mean, it's very easy to get on the wrong side of a liable law.

Oh, it really is. It really is. So good luck to both Julian Assange and to Mary. They deserve our support. For sure. Hey, so there's some interesting paranoia, paranoid articles about China as using AI to basically do research and oppo research against American politics. with a view towards possibly just being able to leverage them and all this.

And basically, I read all these articles. And basically, they seem to have about as much meat as the articles talking about anti-Semitism in Gaza protests. It's on American campuses. You're just looking in vain. Like, come on. Like, where is it? Where is it?

I mean, they must have nicer editors than I ever had because my editors would never have published something that had no citations whatsoever. But it's all just random speculation. It's all breezy and airy. So yes, there is a country named China. Yes, there is a thing called AI. Yes, you can use AI to gather information about things and people. But so fucking what?

So what? Am I missing? Am I stupid? Exactly. Exactly. Who cares? I mean, yeah. It's just sort of like the idea like China's doing stuff.

They're big and scary and dangerous because yellow menace. Okay. Yeah. I just was hoping that that was. No. Oh, my God. Chinese. All right.

Okay. Are we deprogramed? I'm deprogrammed. I am deprogrammed too. We will be back Friday. I'll be in Montana. I have a book signing there, but I have time. Because of the time difference, it should be okay.

If not, we might have to rejigger the time. But anyway, 5 o'clock, Eastern time, in 3 o'clock central time. If you're in Calispell, Montana, come and see me at Barnes & Noble at 1 p.m. Friday and 1 p.m. on Saturday. And thank you very much for watching. We'll be back next week. Also, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. That's our schedule, 5 p.m.

I'm Ted Rawl. That's John Kiroki. You've been watching Deep Program. Please like, follow, and share. The show, Reed is saying, we need some guests on this show. Hey, if you have any ideas for guests, I don't know anyone. Let us know. Thank you, Forson.

I've got a bad stomach ache. Yeah, yeah. It's, that sucks. Getting a transfusion tomorrow, it's going to make me myself again. Yeah. I remember I had a transfusion once. I got to have a whole bunch of them. Oh, man.

All right. Well, I hope all the, it's all the best blood. I hope so All right John Good luck I'll talk to you tomorrow Thanks buddy Safe travels

You too Let's see No outro End stream There we go