DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Dire Strait | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Editorial cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• Iran says Hezbollah and Lebanon were part of the ceasefire deal. Pakistan, the mediator, confirms Iran’s understanding, as do France and the UK. Israel keeps bombing anyway. Now Iran says the Strait of Hormuz, open for ten minutes, is closed indefinitely. Is this a ceasefire, a fragile ceasefire, or all-out war, and will scheduled talks happen in Islamabad on Saturday?• Desperate to end the war he started, Trump drafted an X post in which Pakistan PM Shehbaz Sharif pretended to ask the US and Iran to negotiate a ceasefire. But Sharif derped—and posted it with “*Draft - Pakistan’s PM Message on X*.” Iran is emboldened and Pakistan’s role as neutral arbiter has been exposed.• Americans oppose the war by a 2-to-1 margin. Trump also suffers from a credibility gap; a majority think he is lying about Iran. Republicans worry that Trump’s attempts to end his war with Iran are too little, too late to save them from losing the House and Senate.• For the first time, American men ages 18-26 will automatically be registered for the military draft by December.MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.livehttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Good morning. It's Thursday, April 9th, 2026, and you are watching Deep Program with Ted Raul and Jamal Thomas. You bastard. Well, you know, all you J people, you know, it's all the same. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for liking, following, and sharing the show. Appreciate seeing you here. Oh, my God. What a crazy news cycle. Can't wait to get into it with you, JT. So we will get into, obviously.

this is all about the war. And, you know, I'm going to skip straight to the end. The draft is back, basically. The U.S. government will officially start subjecting all American men aged 18 to 26 automatically to the selective service system. So you will be registered for the draft, whether you want to be or, you know, you're like a draft resistance or not, all automatic starting this December. So that sort of tells you where we are. It's a whole new world. I'm 62 years old.

You know, I haven't seen a draft since the Vietnam War. Good. Good. I'm getting cynical is not the word for it. I guess I'm getting more brutal than my take. There's, look, only 2% of the U.S. I'm sorry. Please finish this.

No, no, no, no. It's okay. Go ahead. I'm like, please, finish your thought. Only like 2% of the U.S. country is in the military. If you asked me this when I was, 20, I'd be like, hey, that's outrageous. Why are we doing this?

But truth of the matter is, there needs to be some tether between us going to war and the public feeling some kind of way of the fact that the U.S. is going to war, as opposed of this kind of, yeah, we're murdering people abroad, but, okay, I have to play Xbox and I need to have sex with my mistress. Like, there needs to be something where the country is outraged over it, not just, oh, we don't like this, but oh my God, you're sending my child into a war zone where they could die. And that goes my child, my child, I actually care about. My own tax question. Yeah, I care about my kid. Yeah, I care about my kid. I've raised that kid. And now you are grabbing him, snatching him and sending him to a war of aggression that I'm not on board for. It's not like the enemy is at the gates, right?

It's not like the librarians that are trying to break down the gates of America and trying to kill America. That's not where we are. It's America saying, hey, let's go into foreign wars abroad to kill a lot of people for unclear reasons and for objectives that are impossible to accomplish. And I need to send your kid into that war zone. Now, if you do that to a large part of the population, where the population is unclear of whether or not their kid is going to go, does it make you more or less against what is taking place? And does it get people out of their seats and go on protests, hell, beating down the gates of the white house saying, this is a no. It's not that I like it.

But damn, man, there needs to be something needs to change. It's an extremely valid argument. I mean, there's no question that like the violent, look, it's so funny, right? After Vietnam, when the draft was ended, I believe the draft was ended in 1973 when I was 10 years old. I remember watching the war every single day with my mom. I think it was Sunday evening right before all in the family. They would switch to the, they would have the draft lottery. I remember this really vividly because this was still a period when television was in color and black and white,

depending on the budget of the show. And so all in the family was a, it was a color show. But anyway, you'd come in after some game show at 7.30. And then at 8 o'clock, I think it was Sunday night if memory serves. And you can find on YouTube these reels of these guys doing it. suddenly it's black, it's a black and white, and these guys with skinny ties, skinny lapels, and there's a big tumbler. And then there's like, the following is a drawing of the selective service system.

It's like, we are now drawing to this, you know, this month's numbers. And so they had 365 or 366 vials like when they draw the lottery. And then they would pull it out and then they'd open up the piece of paper and they'd be like, you know, number 14. If you were born January 14th, 1956, you must report to your selective service office within the next 30 days. And they would like pull how many they needed. And I remember just asking my mom, like, am I going to have to, how long has this war been going on? And she said, since before you were born, because she's French. So for her, that was true.

It had been going. Interesting. Right. And so she said long before, she said since I was a child, which was true. and I said, well, then, am I going to have to go? And she said, yes, you'll have to go. And years later, after the war was over, she told me, like, oh, I would have sent you to Canada. I'm like, bullshit.

You never, that's not what you said at the time. You terrified me. I'm 12 years old. And I thought I was going to have to go and kill and die for no reason for this stupid, fucking unpopular war. So now they, so then the, you know, the draft went away. Jimmy Carter, asshole, restored draft registration to try to look like a, you know, like all Democrats, like, look at me. I'm like going to out republic in the Republicans. He restored draft registration in the Cold War.

And ever since, and by the way, it's a serious thing. When I was in college, one of my classmates refused to register for the draft. And they sent him to federal prison for five years for refusal. I didn't register. I just sort of didn't register. And two FBI dudes with skinny ties and skinny lapels showed up at my mom's house. My mom was like, you can arrest me. I'm not telling you where my son is.

It also made me think, God. I mean, I went to college. How hard would it have been to just find out, go to my kite school and say, hey, where did Ted Rolk go to college? He went to Columbia. Okay, bye. But I guess they were too stupid to just do that. Anyway, I did.

You know, they told me I would lose my. financial aid if I didn't register. The point is that's been the law. The military went in kicking and screaming into draft registration. They did be into a volunteer army. They didn't want it. And it's turned out to be the best thing in the world for the reasons Jamal that you just articulated. No one gives a shit now when someone else's kid goes because in the back of their mind and this is me, me included. I'm guilty. It's like, well, you fucking volunteered, right? You chose. You chose. You could have gotten a people who say like oh I was too poor I was from the rust belt there was no work I'm from the rust belt I was poor I missed meals I you know I had my own social worker who wondered why I weighed less

the you know this year than last year it's like the you know it's like get a job at McDonald's it pays the same I mean you know it's like it's not so people literally think F fuck those people and therefore no one cares if there's a draft everyone's going to be forced to care. I mean, of course, I would, it's also slavery. It's horrible. I'm totally against it. I mean, it's the worst slavery because there's a high chance of being killed. And a high chance that you may be killing somebody else. Yeah, very high chance. And you can come back, and there's a high chance you'll come back, you know, mentally and or physically damaged, never to be the same again. So, I mean, I, I mean, I have strong, obviously I have strong opinions about this.

But I was shocked when I read this news this morning. And I am also, you and I both know, nothing much will come out of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I had an argument with this guy once. I was, Jesus, I was like a teenager. And it was an older guy who had been in either the Second World War or either the Korean War. I forget which war he was in.

And he was like, hey, man, there should be an open draft. And I remember getting to this back and forth with him. like you're out of your mind. You're trying to send me to a war zone and I don't want to go. I think you're out of your mind. And as I got older and I've seen the U.S. going to war after war, after war, after war. It's very possible that his thought was, look, if we want to have a restraint or the public involved, the public actually cares, then the public needs to have skin in the game. And yeah, there's a, you know, indirect skin in the game in a sense of, okay, but we're $37 trillion in debt or the money that's used for the empire that should be used internally as being used in

regards to wars. That's true, but that doesn't seem to be the thing that's biting into the public. The public still seems to look at it as the president can have his wars. The president's a mid, right? Because 2% of 300 to some million are the ones that are involved in the military. And so, as you point out, we just look at it as they're doing something while we do our own thing here, as if these things are completely disconnected from one another. I'm trying to say they're not, nor should they be. No, I mean, so, yeah, I mean, look, obviously what I would like is for this country to become less warry. Yes.

So let's get to that. And guys, thank you so much for your questions. We're going to be getting to those in just a minute. We will, and definitely, if you're watching in the live program, instead of streaming route later, we are in the 9 o'clock hour, live a.m., 9 a.m. every day, Eastern time. and if you're watching live on Rumble or on YouTube, please put in your questions. We will get to all of them that we can. Priority goes to,

has to go to Super Chats, but we do try to get to all of them. Thank you so much for those. And thank you for tuning in. Okay, so I'm going to not bury the lead. I have a tendency to bury the lead, Jermarl. It's one of my many personality flaws. I don't know why.

It's kind of like I like to lube up the news or whatever before I stick it in. But this time, I'm going to be like Donald Trump, and I'm just going to stick it in without any preamble. So, oh, my God, this Pakistan tweet story. Yes. So the New York Times is reporting, and this has obviously happened, that we remember, so Sunday, so we all remember Tuesday night was possible Apocalypse Day. We didn't know if we were going to wake up and find Tehran, you know, irradiated, and 9.2 million people gone as a nuclear cloud wafts across the subcontinent. So the deadline was at 8 o'clock. This was a deadline that Trump had set like, hey, you crazy bastards, reopen the straight of Hormuz.

And then the Pakistani prime minister, Shabaz Sharif, posted on X, hey, you know, we have a diplomatic solution. We really want Iran and the United States to come together. meet in Islamabad and hash things out. We think this is going to work out. And then the U.S. And, well, Iran said, okay, we'll talk. And the U.S. said, okay, yeah, that sounds good. Turns out that the initial time that Sharif posted it, it said on the first version of it, which he then edited, said draft, Pakistan's PM message on X. And a lot of people on social media and noticed that the language, the verbiage of this text, was very Trumpy. It's like, you know, diplomacy is going strongly.

You know, like no one else really talks like them. So it turns out Donald Trump wrote this draft X, sent it to Pakistan, and asked them to give him cover to basically say, I can't be seen as asking for diplomacy. I can't be seen as being desperate and realizing that I fucked up. I have to be seen as being acquiescing to diplomacy. And so that's what happened. And it took a little while for this to be noticed that this had happened,

but the New York Times found out and confirmed that this is what happened. I mean, Tremal, this has massive implications. I mean, it is massive. So let's go through some of them, right? I'm sure you have others. Number one, we now know, and more importantly, Iran knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the whole thing that I've been thinking, and most of us have been thinking, is that we thought that these two parties were talking past each other. They both, the U.S. and the Iran, think that they've won because they're measuring the war by different metrics.

That turns out to be false. In fact, Iran, of course, thought that won. The U.S. knows that Iran has won. That's why Trump did this. He was trying to bring this in for a landing that would save some kind of his dignity. Because Sharif is a derp that cover got blown. And now he's been completely exposed. The Iranians now know that they hold all the cards, as Trump would say.

And they don't have to compromise in any kind of meaningful way. conversely, this corners Donald Trump, which is a terrifying thing. We know from the art of war, Sun Tzu, never corner your adversary. You always allow him a graceful exit. So will the Iranians keep him cornered or will they graciously give him some kind of compromise? And then last, but I don't think least, Pakistan is no longer viewed as a neutral arbiter by Iran. I mean, Iran had good reason to trust the Pakistanis. They've had a cordial relationship for decades.

When I went to get my Iranian visa, it was at the Pakistani embassy in Washington, where in the back room they have an Iran interest section. I mean, so the Iranians are feeling pissed, and they know they've been lied to by the intermediary in Islamabad. the Iranians had posted that they were going to go and to Islamabad this Saturday for talks. Then they deleted that message. It deleted it. So, all right, sorry, that was long-winded. But, you're fine. So I think it was either yesterday, a short day before, where when we brought up Pakistan,

I think I mentioned that kind of like Saudi Arabia, that is unclear where Pakistan falls on this stuff. I mean, if you think of the generals and stuff like that in the relationship that they've had with, the United States. It goes back for decades, right? And, you know, Pakistan seemingly was double dealing. And once it's during the 12-day war, they would say, we're going to give Iran nukes. But by the same token, it wasn't clear whether they necessarily would Iran's camp. So Pakistan was always a fudgy, nebulous thing to me. Sketchy dudes. Yeah, it was always sketchy to me. In regards to what you were saying, yes, I agree with everything that you said. I would add one more thing to it, is that this is not entirely abnormal from the way that Trump deals.

So go back to Ukraine and you can even go back to Syria and you can go back to the way Trump operates. There was no way to know. Look, I'm of the mind that this is not the U.S. dog gone broke. This is U.S. policy. So when they're dealing with the Ukrainians, for example, Donald Trump double deals. He would in one sense pretend as if I'm being a peacemaker with. the Russians while simultaneously in the background, hey, I'm going to hit energy infrastructure.

I'm going to support terrorist activities in Ukraine. I'm going to support in Russia. I'm going to support them using high Mars missiles because any missile that's fired has to be fired by the U.S. That is what was said prior. So this double dealing that's taking place with the Ukrainians is the same double dealing that he's doing with the Iranians. During the 12-day war, Trump is in the middle of negotiations. He attacks the country in the middle of negotiations or Israel attacks. I think Israel in the U.S. are effectively the same because I think Israel is a proxy of the U.S. And in this case, Trump approves an agreement, meaning that's his tweet for all the tense purposes.

It's his tweet. It's his tweet. Twakistan was pushed to do it. And in it is Lebanon is included. Right. Meaning for that to be Trump's tweet, Trump would have had to agree Lebanon is included in the deal. And Israel. And clearly he did agree to that.

that because he informed the prime president of france in anurel macron and keir stormer uh in the u.k who basically and they confirmed that lebanon is part of the deal exactly and so then to turn around and be like hey man pakistan um Lebanon's not included okay is he lying is he double dealing i would say yeah both i would say this is exactly the same thing that he did in ukraine and this is exactly the same thing you did. A lot more is at stake now, though. True, but that doesn't stop the behavior, right? Like, meaning if I'm able to get away with a particular behavior flaw, and I'm able to do it for years, why would I not do it even when it's a hyperist situation? He's a very old dog. No new tricks here, right? Yeah. This is Trump. This is normal Trump, double dealing. Basically, I'm going to say that Lebanon is

included, it will attack's Lebanon, and I'm going to act like Lebanon is not included. And then the question... Don't worry, baby. I got your back. It's cool. But he's betting that Iran doesn't kill the ceasefire over Lebanon. That's his bet. Well, the ceasefire is done.

It's funny that this is being... I mean, that's my view, right? This is being characterized by mainstream media. I'm not sure why. Are they just trying to, like, prevent everyone from freaking out and running around with their hair on fire? I mean, they're kind of pretending like, you know, a fraudulent. Cedule ceasefire takes hold.

Jamal, the purpose of the ceasefire was to reopen the straight of our moves. The straight of our moves is not opened. It was open, as we pointed out yesterday on the show, 10 minutes. Two ships got through. I mean, that's pretty fast, actually. Five minutes each for these giant ships. They must have been like, you know, fucking haul out. Get going.

Let's go. Get going while the getting's good, right? They've been stuck there for months. So I don't blame them. But so, yeah, so there's no ceasefire, right? There is no ceasefire. And I guess my big concern, again, not to bury, I'm not going to bury the lead today for once. What is, if I'm Donald Trump, I'm going to feel cornered like a rat.

I'm out, you know, I now, everybody knows I'm holding a pair of twos. I got nothing. It's like, maybe I got, I need to nuke Tehran. maybe that's maybe that's my only way out at this point because the Iranians at this point can say listen we own this trade of war wars there's nothing you can fucking do about it you can bomb the shit out of us makes no difference you're fucked the we're taking the global economy down with us you don't even have two weeks of respite sorry China you'll understand we tried to open it for you but you know it's like you know you saw what the Americans did the Chinese will understand

So now what? Yeah. Well, they're not opening for China. I mean, China has back routes to Iran. I mean, there's a train that goes from China to, is that right? Is it China to Iran that develop a train train or something like that where the train line can run for one to the other? Meaning a train would have to go from across Central Asia to get to Iran. Okay, so maybe I misunderstood that.

Oh, it's Iran and Russia. I'm sorry. Ignore what I just said. They will let Chinese ships through. they will. They will let Russian ships through. They will make agreements. No problem. Yeah. So the issue is the rest of the global economy. I would wager that people were screaming at China, please, you know, talk to them, please talk to them, that type of stuff. So I don't doubt that

China probably was pushing Iran to some level of negotiations. But at nuking, there are consequences for that. And they're unpredictable. Like what does, if Russia sees you nuke Iran, what does Russia think? What does China? I think. Like, does Europe even stay on board for that? Does Europe be like, whoa, that's a bit much? Wait, for, for nuking? Yeah, for nuke. Well, that's what, I mean, that's what I have to ask. I mean, I mean, there's so many, there's the domestic implications, right? I mean, would MAGA world continue to defend this president? Would corporate Republicans continue to defend this president? Would the Democrats, you know, demand an impeachment? Would there be, would J.D. Vance,

who opposed this war behind closed doors? Would he invoke the 25th, the men? or, as I believe, would commentators start to say, well, it's not like it's the first time it's ever happened. I mean, Harry Truman did it not once, but twice. You know, it's like, you know, what? I'm thinking what do other countries do when the United States does that? Even if there's no internal dissent, you other countries look at that and be like, holy shit. and basically respond accordingly. I don't know what they do.

And let's be honest, Iran is a country of, what, 90 million? 92 million people, yeah. How much of that country can you nuke and can you stop them from having a response capability? No. No, you can't. That Iran has limited those strikes. Do they get decedination plants? Do they try to take that?

I mean, here's the question, right? Like if you nuke to Iran, right? It's the capital. Look, I've been to Iran. It's a highly centralized country. It's kind of like France in that way. Like you capture Paris, you capture France, right? You know, it's nice to have Marseille.

It doesn't really run the country for you. New York, I mean, the United States is a highly decentralized country. If you captured Washington, you haven't captured the country. There's still New York, Miami, L.A., Chicago. These are all very important, equally important. California. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like, so I mean, it's different. But I mean, I think with if the Iranian state were completely decimated by a nuclear, you know, explosion, Iranian society would collapse, right? I mean, I don't know. I think they would still be able to launch missiles at the strait. And at that point, you're in a post-up, literally in a post-apocalyptic scenario. I mean, I don't know.

And then there's the whole question of what would the world do? I think the United States would become a pariah. I think we already are. Right. I mean, if you ask the rest of the world, who did it because the most dangerous country, those polls came back to the U.S. And those polls are right. I mean, think of what we've been doing.

We've been murdering fishermen. For fun. For fun. And Trump, the president, not horrified by it, comes out and says, look at how powerful the United States is. And look at the thing with Ukraine, right? Trump could have ended the war. you have hundreds of thousands of people that have effectively lost their lives because the U.S.

and NATO wanted to expand to the Russian border and wanted to get geopolitical, this kind of Hobbs choice on Russia. Okay. How many people died as a result of that? I mean, for God say, you can look at the kill squads that were in South America. You can look at the knocking over of Libya, Afghanistan. You can look at taking down Syria. Hell, putting terrorists in charge of Syria where they've been carrying out ethnic cleansing through various parts. of the country for religious minorities.

Whoever could have seen that coming. Unforeseeable, right? Unparing out that this is terrifying in regards to the way to we engage the rest of the world. Iran is just the latest actor in this. So, you know, I get this facade of

Coca-Cola and Pepsi. You know, as America. But, dude, we're a dangerous... What is going to... I mean, what is Donald Trump going to do? I mean, all eyes are on him at this point because, I mean, look, he has to, here's the thing, right? He's under tremendous pressure.

I mean, the White House switchboard is running hot day and night with foreign leaders and business executives and money men who are scared to death. By the way, just parenthetically, I'd just like to point out that most American media, most journalists apparently don't know math. So they keep saying, so oil is around $100 a barrel. It's like it started at 60 and they say, oh, oil is up 30 or 40 percent. No. You look at the 60 to 100 is 40. 40 divided by 60 is two thirds. That's 67.

That's a 67% increase in. And it's only, you know, get worse, right? I mean, so he's got, so the economy is on the. brink. Countries are now running out of oil, including U.S. Allies. Japan's not far from now. There's a lot of major countries that within two months, a lot of will not have, there's already oil rationing being contemplated in the UK. There are gas stations that have completely run out of gas in the UK because of hoarding. Look, I do it too. If I have, if I'm one quarter empty, I go to the gas station because it's only going to get more expensive, right?

So the pressure is enormous. He needs to fix this. There's only two ways out. One is you make nice with the Iranians and you give them pretty much almost everything they want. Two, and number two, well, you could, but Donald Trump can't. I could. I mean, I know when I've lost. I'll come out of my, I'll come out of my, you know, foxhole with my hands up and say,

please don't shoot. Donald Trump can't. That's not his brand. He can't do that, right? Right. So the other way is you've got to do something to scare the shit out of the Iranians or make them shut the fuck up. To me, I don't see a non-nuclear option there.

I'm very skeptical of the nuclear option. But he, I mean, look, I agree with you. He can't do the first one overtly. Not overtly. Well, hence the prime minister of Pakistan coming out saying, like, hey, we're going to broker a deal. However, covertly is not going to work because the Iranians have no reason to trust the Americans.

They've been, not once, not twice. They were negotiating and they got sneak attacked like it was Pearl Harbor, right? Yeah. So they don't trust. This has to be on the up and up now. From the Iranian point of view, they can't agree to anything other than basically an armistice. But see, I don't agree that the nuclear option solves this issue. I mean, if you launch nukes, you're in the unpredictable world in regards to how the rest of the world responds.

Like, for example, there was no way to know that killing Archduke Ferdinand was going to start the Second World War, right? It was like these kinds of dead. The First World War, right. It just kind of spiraled where one thing leads to the next, leads to the next. I think a nuclear bomb is that. Like, you're hitting an ally of Russia and China, a country that both of which, I would argue is required for this kind of multipolarity that is taking place around the world. Iran is not just, you know, it's not Timbuktu in essence, right?

But, I mean, are you saying, are you implying that you think there's any chance that Russia or China would retaliate with nuclear weapons against the United States? I don't believe there's any chance. It's not that I think they were retaliated with nuclear weapons against the states. It's that it becomes unpredictable in regards to how those countries respond to you doing that. Like, I mean, because otherwise, the U.S. is going to have to believe. What's on the table? What kind of things could they do, Jamo? See, I don't know. That's the wild card. I don't think there's much they could do.

I think, honestly, if I'm, I mean, I don't even think the Chinese or the Russians would have to do anything other than to issue some strongly worded statements. Because it's the fence sitters in the EU and elsewhere who would just say, what the fuck? And they would decide that they would condemn the Pope, everyone would be condemning the United States in the strongest. possible terms, and we would be hated and reviled by everyone. And that just plays into the hands of the Russians and the Chinese, and it's best for them to just zip it, right? And it's like, they can't, it's like when you're, when you've been singing the song for years, as those two countries have, that the U.S. is dangerous. And then suddenly everybody else joins the chorus. That's when you just take a back seat and you let those guys lead. I would agree with that. In the context of

of a war. Nukes or, I don't know, man. Like, like, nooks is so, I don't know how other countries respond to that. I put it that way. And that... Well, I mean, what are the options, right? War against the U.S., not going to happen. Sanctions against the U.S.?

Maybe some. But the U.S. is so economically interconnected, you know, with the dollar being the world's reserve currency, it's hard to really impose sanctions. of any meaningful type against the U.S. I mean, I think in the, I mean, I honestly think Donald Trump might even survive as president. I mean, this all, by the way, I hate all this. I just think that it's probably true.

And on this show, I try to say things that, you know, I remember giving predictions, like, in a public forum, it's like, oh, who do you think is to win the election? And I would say, like, and then people would boo me. And I'd be like, I'm not a warlock. I don't make anything happen. I don't want it to happen. I'm just telling you what I think is going to happen. I think that like Donald Trump can nuke can nuke Iran and get away with it. Oh man. I don't know.

I just look, I realize that on the other horizon of me saying, I don't know, I don't know the consequences of it. It's, look, I get very dodgy when I can't necessarily predict what's going to happen. Well, it's okay. I mean, it's a very, it's, it's, it's, this is a completely new world. I mean, the very fact that we're even having. this conversation is ridiculous. It's disturbing. We're halfway into the show.

We should answer some questions. Yes, I'm sorry. Oh, by the way. My fault. I don't think it would be the U.S. would do it. I think Israel would do it. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't think the U.S. will do it.

I think if a nuke is fired, it will be from Israel. And Israel will make that. I disagree entirely. You think, oh, really? You think the U.S. would do it. You don't think Israel would. Yeah, because I think if the Israelis do it, now they are done. Okay, they will have sanctions and post.

by most of the world, they don't have any leverage over the rest of the rest of the world. They would be talk about, I mean, they would lose recognition for most countries in Europe. You think so? No, their ambassadors would kicked out permanently. Oh, no, they would, they'd be pariah forever. Because they're already, they're already on double secret probation with everybody. Exactly. They literally committed a genocide with the world watching and not doing anything purely because

the United States is backing them. The Iran, so the thing is, if I'm, if I'm Bibi versus and Donald, and I'm like, oh, you nuke, no, you nuke, Bibi can credibly say Donald, Donald, he'll get away with it. You'll be fine. But, like, Bibi's like, I won't be fine. So you have to do it. Oh, man, I don't know. I doubt that. I mean, Israel will make this argument that, hey, man, we were being destroyed. We are defending ourselves against the Iranians. No one will buy it. No one buys the genocide argument either. And yet they're able to do it. Well, that's why Israel is like, you know, it's global perception as well as here in the United States is in the toilet and it's only going to get worse. So I don't know. We'll see. Let's all right. So thanks for the very, very generous 1999. Much appreciate you.

Good morning, jents. Jamal, welcome to the show. I was out for a few. I'm ready. I'm back ready to support this awesome podcast. Jens, will we ever gain the trust of our Middle East allies again? And will anyone trust us on the world stage again? And Jamal, you can take that.

In 500 years, maybe. But anybody who's in living memory of this nonsense, no. How could you? Right? You're in the middle of negotiations with Iran and your attack. Okay, that's problematic. You are dealing with the Russians and you're double dealing. Okay, that's problematic, right?

You make agreements with, let's say the Russian agreements or the Soviet Union with all of these missile treaties and you get rid of all of them. That's problematic. Meaning, how do you make an agreement with the U.S. seems agreement incapable, especially when you have this kind of imperialistic point of view that, well, we don't have to make agreements because we have leverage over all of these countries, meaning why am I going to make an agreement with somebody who I consider it to be a supporter? It's that. If we gain an advantage, the agreement is over with. Well, that's, and that's part of it. That's definitely all true. And then in addition, there's the question of what is an alliance with the United States worth? right? I mean, like if you're Bahrain, what good is it that you have this massive U.S. military base in Bahrain right there on your territory that's making you a target for the Iranians who, by the way, are right down the street? And this country that's on the, from the other side of the world is kind of like, oh, we're going to vacuum. Sorry, guys, sorry. I mean, it was always a dumb move on the part of the Bahrainis, not to make nice with the Iranians, considering where they live. But,

now they can't avoid it. I mean, the Americans were like, you know, we got you, we'll pay you, blah, blah, blah. Money is not worth anything now when you've got missiles falling on your ass. Right. We'll protect you. I mean, that's the thing. U.S. alliances are worthless. All right.

Aryan Gordy, thanks for the 1999. Good morning, gents. Why does the U.S. continue to deal with puppet stun? Clear they haven't been a solid partner to the U.S. with all the sponsored terror. How does all, and how does this involvement in the U.S. illegal war? impact the Pakistani Afghan war. I'm really, can I go after that second half first? Please.

So up until now, Afghan Pakistan has been a side show. It's on the back burner, overshadowed by all these developments in the Middle East. Nobody really cares. It's like most of the, it's Afghanistan taking most of the hits, which is, by the way, Afghanistan strangely has become kind of somewhat aligned with India. it is strange considering the historical enmity there. But the, but like now, now, given what we talked about earlier with Prime Minister Sharif and his double dealing with Trump and, you know, posing as an independent arbiter and all that and being exposed, I think it elevates the Afghan-Pakistani conflict to something that's more important. And people are not going to pay attention to the Pakistanis and be like, you guys are either stupid or you're evil or you're both.

And this kind of helps, that narrative kind of helps the Taliban. Oh, I see what you mean because the U.S. is effectively working with Pakistan in order to go out there, Afghanistan. I mean, look, Pakistan has been working with the United States for a very long time. I mean, Pakistan's military is working. And the ISI. Yeah, the ISI. this security service. Think of what they did to,

oh, what is his name? What is his name? Oh, I love the guy. Oh, what is his name? The one that they put in prison. Oh, well, Sharif's dad. Nawaz Sharif. No, no.

Not what was Sharif. The one is in prison now. Oh, oh, the rugby guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, God, man, I can't think of his name. He's cool as hell. But if you remember the reason that they put him in prison, and part of the reason. When the Ukraine war started, he was sitting in Moscow. It's not that he knew

Oh, Imran Khan. Imran Khan, thank you. It's not that he knew anything about the war per se, but he was sitting in Moscow. He had a close relationship with the Russians. They asked him about it and he, the U.S. says something like he is aggressively neutral and they didn't like the fact that he was quote and quote, aggressively neutral. And they were talking to military or parts of the military basically saying, we don't like him doing that. So you get a relationship between the U.S. and the Pakistani military. The Pakistani military is already a little wary of Imran Khan because Imran Khan seemed to be trying to make it,

let's say take more power in regards to the political space as opposed to the military having in control over the country's political affairs. They end up putting him in a cage. I mean, there's a huge amount of political, intrigue that takes place with American or dealing with that. But I'm pointing out that there was always great.

The prime ministers always end up in prison. Yeah, but in his case, it became clear that he was trying to pull it in a political direction. Hell, he even came out and was like, I'm a nulling on the parliament, I'm redoing. They put him in a cage, right? I'm saying that the relationship

between the United States and Pakistan was always there. It might have been in the background. Sure. But people are now focused on it. The thing is, okay, so I think it was widely understood that, you know, Pakistan always played footsies with the U.S. Yes. But also, it was kind of believed that they had a cordial, correct relationship with Iran. Yeah.

And now it's like, well, you betrayed the Iranians, you know? And is it betrayal? Like, it's one thing, like, is it that they omitted the fact that Trump put it out? Is that the betrayal? Well, it's like when I sued the L.A. Times. I found out that my lawyer was drinking and having group sex with one of the defendants in my case. What? I viewed that as a betrayal.

What? So I'm just saying that, like, you were, yeah. Are you serious? Totally serious. Totally serious. So, yeah. No, that's like a, just one of many spicy details. But like, yeah, no, it's like, it's a fucking, it is a fucking, it's a betrayal.

Like, I mean, Jamal, if you have a dispute, if you have beef with Robbie, and then you're like, Ted, I need you to adjudicate this and work things out with Robbie. And then it turns out that I'm like, I'm just like, I'm just like on team Robbie all the way. And like I'm just like, oh, yeah, like I'm being fair. You're pissed at me. Of course. Yeah, I have some feelings about that. Agreed. Right.

Okay. So that's what we're talking about here. Hey, Robbie, speaking of which, I know you guys don't have beef. Do we have an app? We do. Home, one second. I'll get up for you. All right, thank you. And we'll do some more questions on that. And, okay, so in the meantime, let's do some more questions. Manchild, thanks for the dollar.

With Pakistan's Tweetgate, it's fucking unbelievable. I can't get over it. People who know me and watch this show, no, I don't shock easy. But I'm shocked here. Should the UN move from a diplomatic observer to the lead mediator for the Islam Abad talks to ensure a neutral process or if the UN2 sidelined to save this fragile truce. Look, there's a lot to peel to peel there.

First of all, I'd be, I think the chances of this of these talks occurring at all are reduced, greatly reduced by all this. Yes. And if I'm the Iranians, I'm like, I'm just, I would tell the Chinese, guys, you shouldn't have told us we had the Americans right where we wanted them. We should fucking nail them to the wall. I mean, if I'm the, if I'm the Iranians, I'm high. high-fiving right now. You know, Apple T all around, right? So I don't know if the Iranians really feel

like they need to negotiate. They certainly don't need to negotiate with the Pakistanis because of the reasons we just talked about. And I think the UN would, I mean, yeah, I think the UN is, would be the logical choice if you're going to have media, you know, you're going to have to have mediation, of course. I mean, but the media, the results of the mediation necessarily have to favor Iran because they're the victims of an aggressive war and they hold all the leverage to the Strait of our moves. But see, negotiations to what end? How do you trust the, like, meaning, well, you'll negotiate with your enemies, right?

I mean, so they have to negotiate. But how do you get security guarantees from an untrustworthy act? Yeah, anyone can sign anything, right? Like, you can sign a non-aggression to pact and say, we will never, ever attack you. And then, like, oh, well, we did sue us. Yeah. Put it this with Austria. Because we have no, because we have no honor, right?

That's the problem. The Austria had to put in their constitution that they wouldn't get into these wars of aggression, right? Ukraine did the same thing. They got rid of it, meaning you can write anything. Right. How do you ensure that it's stable? Yeah, like the U.S. Constitution says that only Congress can declare war. And yet here we are, right?

Yeah. right, let me read this ad. You've probably noticed Rumble is growing fast and it's not slowing down. They're building a real alternative to big tech that puts creators first and actually protects free speech. And now there's Rumble premium, an easy way to upgrade your experience. With premium, you get ad-free viewing across the platform, no pre-rolls, no interruptions, just the content you came for. Plus, premium members unlock exclusive content like bonus videos, behind the scenes, drops,

and more from your favorite creators. Right now, Rumble is offering $10 off an annual subscription. subscription, just go to rumble.com slash premium and use the promo code studio at checkout. That's rumble.com slash premium promo code studio. No ads, more freedom and content you actually care about. That's the deal. So what do you think? Are we going to have these talks? I don't know. They seem to be declining every moment. I mean, look, from my point of view, I think you're right. Iran has to create some kind of new norm. Because otherwise they're going to be pecked at this point, they realize that negotiations without being able to demonstrate leverage are pointless.

On the second front, whether the UN should take over, the UN is not an unbiased entity. It's just not. I mean, like, you couldn't even get them to say, hey, you know who should do this. It's China. But see, I don't know if they're going to, if the U.S. would agree to it in that case. Like, meaning, the U.S. doesn't have a hold of a lot of cards anymore, you know? That's true, but we're talking about front. Like, meaning, I have to know that he cares about these people losing their lives.

I think he cares about humiliation. By the same token, you have a habitual liar. They would turn around and say, hey, all of the energy prices are down as they spike up. Well, he claims to get along with the Chinese, right? He has business dealings there. He could easily sort of spin this, like, I get along great with President Xi. He and I are good friends.

We love each other. I respect the Chinese. They have talks coming up. Yeah. They have talks coming up. So maybe. They could fold them in. Maybe.

One interesting thing, too, is maybe. The Chinese want to be the big adults in the room and the brokers of peace. That's like their stick. They want to be, they want everyone to like reach out to them to negotiate to settle things. Well, because they don't want war. what the U.S. does. It's funny because there has to be a trustworthy negotiator, right? Like in Central Asia, which is my area of expertise, such as it is,

Kyrgyzstan is always the honest broker. So if there's a border dispute between Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, which happens from time to time, and if they reach an impasse, they're like, bring in Kyrgyz negotiators. And everybody just abides by whatever the Kyrgyz decide, because they all trust them. They're like, the Kirkees are wise. They'll do what's right.

Everyone will emerge a little bit unhappy. The question is, can the Chinese or someone else play that role? Yeah, but see, the United States doesn't consider China and an independent actor in this. I mean, China has a relationship with Iran, just like China, Russia, et cetera, all these countries are part of Brits. And all of these countries have been the target of Donald Trump's, either tariff war or direct war. At the same time, it's a major trading partner of the United States. That's true. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, like, it's hard for me to see, look, I don't trust the U.S. And maybe that's my issue. Like, it's one thing to be doing. Where do I? One country you can trust, et cetera. The U.S. has to lose something in order for the U.S. to realize that needs to negotiate. Like, for example, they're losing the entire global economy. We are losing the entire global economy.

Well, I mean, essentially, I mean, the, look, the oil prices are going to skyrocket. This country doesn't make anything anymore. You know, I mean, we're fucked and the dollar's going to tank. And it's, I mean, I do get that. Trump has really fucked things up in a spectacular way in just five weeks. If that was the case, we would have never entered the war. Like, meaning, if they really cared about that stuff, you don't get involved in this war. Like, this is a war regression that never needed to take place.

For sure. Infinitely conceivable that this was going to affect oil prices, that this was going to affect the global economy. We knew all the stuff before getting in. Jamal, you and I know you read it because we talked about it. This New York Times article from a couple days ago that had the whole inside dish, the Maggie Haberman piece about the internal debates within the White House. Fascinatingly, right?

They were basically, they kind of knew like there's not going to be an uprising in Iran. They just were like, we can kill the Ayatollah. That turned out to be true. And it's like, and we can break a lot of things. Of course, that's true. But all the rest, that wasn't going to happen. But interestingly, the big fuck-up was they kind of assessed magically that for some reason Iran would not shut down the Strait of Hormuz.

Which I don't get. It's not in the article. There's no good reason to think that. So, well, apparently Nanyahu told himself. So this came out, I think it was yesterday in the New York Times, that Trump went around the room, that Nanyahu came. Nanyahu gave his pitch. Trump went around the room,

asked some Rubio, vans, etc. And all of them was like, look, if you mean regime change by killing the Ayatollah, okay, fair enough. But basically, the stuff that you're saying is not going to happen. Like, meaning what Nanyahu is saying is nonsense. And Trump was like, all right, let's do it.

Nanyahu told him... Good enough. Yeah. They said they won't close a straight of Firmus. They won't be able to... Meaning a rhyme. We can kill them in this capacity. You can get the uranium. We can have unicorns come out to sky.

We can, you know. We'll be welcomed as Liberators. Yeah, exactly. And none of that stuff was true. So now that you know. The Hormuz thing was like anybody could see that coming five million miles away. That's the wild part, right? Like, I don't know if they're, I don't know if this reporting is lying to us or is.

No, it sounds really true to me. Because otherwise they're in a bubble. And it's not even they are in a bubble. Well, they're stupid. But if you think of Rubio, if you think of Vance, if you think of the people around Trump, all of them knew this was nonsense. Well, they knew part of it was nonsense, right? They knew that, like, they knew there wasn't going to be an Iranian uprising. They knew that it wasn't going to reshape the Middle East project for a new American century 2.0.

None of that was going to happen. But the Ormuse thing, it all came down to that, right? That's what this is. Iran has one. because of that. That's it. They have that pressure point. The end.

And their thumb can't be pried off of it. Right. And you can't stop their missile capacity. You're not changing their political situation. You're not doing any of that stuff.

Iran remains intact. No, nooking is actually, honestly, Donald Trump's best option. I hate to say it. I hope he doesn't watch the show. One of the other things we should talk about is NATO.

Yes. Let's do that. So Mark Routet, got on CNN, and they asked him and they say, hey, Trump says he was going to end all civilization. How do you feel about that? And he's like, well, I'm not going to discuss what world leaders say. He said, but I want the president to know, I want daddy to know that we're backing him 100%.

We're behind him. How disturbing and disgusting, these effeminate European leaders, these weak men. True. Like, can I think this is on air? penis very small yeah these tiny dick European leaders

why couldn't he say why couldn't he just simply say something along the lines of like needless to say we disapprove of intemperate language like that yes he couldn't even say that

but the reason he couldn't say it is because Donald Trump has been threatening to lead NATO and what's why but he's not going to do it I don't believe for a moment that Trump is going to lead a I don't think you can

Well, Trump is he, we've now learned without any question, right? We always strongly suspected. Like I think before Tuesday, Taco Tuesday 2.0, we knew that he was, that this was all bullshit. It was bluster. It was garbage. But there's knowing, like, you know, like, I would have bet 90% on it. But then there's knowing with like gothic letters, like highlights, drop shadow, like, like dancing girls. This is, we know.

100.0% no rounding error, no margin of error, right? It's like, we know he was bullshitting because of that tweet. So now he's, yeah, I mean, he's not leaving me either. You know, I said as much yesterday. It was like Trump has whole shit.

He's full of shit. We have another very generous $20 donation. This one from Melissa Petrovich. Thank you so much. Good morning. So glad Jarmal is back. Missed his morning shows a lot. You guys are a great match. the very best from your loyal listener. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. Let's see.

P.W. Walker, thanks for your donation. You can see the headline already. Vanderlein condemns Putin for Israel's use of nuclear weapons. Right. Right. So true. It's like, it's obviously the Russians, despite the fact that Israel launched in this. Yeah. And F. U.S.O. has a, has this to say. Jamal said that Israel's anal cavity searches at airport security. That must be why Lindsay Graham goes to Israel every two weeks. Oh, that's so wrong. And yet true. It's so long and yet true.

It's like it's a long trip. The food's not good, but there are there are some bonuses. Israel's food is like, you know. what did I have to eat that? I don't remember what I had to eat that. Bogies asking, explain my logic, nuking the best option. Just to be clear here,

I think it would be an act of total monstrosity that my words are incapable of articulating. Okay. It's an obscenity. Nuclear weapons should never be used, period. They should all be abolished. That said, if I'm Donald Trump, okay, that's a huge if then,

it's a huge conditional statement. It's a huge conditional president. predicate, right? If I'm Donald Trump, that might be my least bad option to get to wheezzle out of this. But if, but that doesn't wheeze you out of it. Like, I guess we are assuming that after a nuke, that Iran doesn't have the capability to respond to the fact that that nuke is on the way. Well, it would be greatly reduced, wouldn't you say?

Maybe. If they launch, if they say, fuck it. And they take out the water desalination plant. they go after Saudi Arabia's oil fields. They go out. Yemen fired a drone and took down what 5% of the world's oil. This was years ago while we were still at the network. That's Yemen.

That is, you know, with limited capacity in regards to capability and everything else. Yeah. If Iran says, fuck it. This is existential. And they unleash and they go after Saudi Arabia, UAE, Dubai, Dubai, et cetera, et cetera. And they go after oil fuels specifically.

It takes on the world energy market. Unfortunately, Harry Truman has created a, who is an asshole for this, you know, created a template, though. He can tell the Iranians, oh, you know, like Tehran, you know, you probably miss it, right? How do you like Mashad? You know, how do you like Qum? Because we'll nuke those too. That is, again, that assumes that Iran, look, I believe, I am firm believer that Iran should have had nukes, right?

Oh, 100%. themselves. But from their point of view, they may look at it. A huge mistake. Taking down the global economy is our nuke. And we have the capacity to do it. Well, it's already, I mean, it's already been set in motion, right? I mean, just do you wait. I mean, if nothing changes in a month, you know, May 9th, holy shit, where are we going to be? Yeah. I guess my point is they may not necessarily have a capacity to drop a new, but they may

have the capacity to destroy the global economy. well that's true no that is true that is true um Sean Lewis should politicians and leaders

that declare these wars have to fight on the front lines yeah yes yeah they should they fucking should yes if you remember Napoleon

actually went to Russia yeah that worked out great Matina my nephew wants to sign up for Razzi I have no idea why no one in the family knows why

he wants to be a jag maybe it's to have his master's degree paid for maybe because of video games. It's really funny. And I was just thinking about this. When I was 17 to piss off my mom, I was being rebellious asshole. I went to the Army Recruiting Center. And I took the exam and they blew all the smoke up my ass.

And I got a call from some major num chuck, numb nuts in like Minnesota. He's like, I'm in charge of recruiting for the entire Upper Midwest. And you got the highest scorn. in like five years for the entire Midwest. I'm like, blow me, maybe true, maybe not true. But anyway, the point is, I mean, if you saw the other people taking the test, you would not be impressed by what I just told you. So, I mean, it was like, I was like, whoa, these are some serious hillbillies here.

So anyway, back in 1981, anyway, the point is, the recruiter's like, oh, you know, you're a cartoonist. You know, you'll be, you'll be drawing cartoons for stars and stripes. I'm like, that sounds great. Can you put that in writing? Oh, no, no, we can't do that. Oh, and when you get out, we'll cover you for college. I'm like, great. I've been accepted to Harvard and Columbia.

It's $13,000 a year in 1981, right? That's how much it was. I'm like, so how much do you cover? Up to $5,000. I'm like, up to $5,000. Does that mean $5,000? Or does that mean $1,000? I mean, it's like up to $5,000.

And I was like, even at 17, I was like, yeah, no, thanks, but no thanks. I mean, you know, fuck you. And it's a fucking, people should not enlist. It's a fucking racket. No one's a bigger liar. The only bigger liar than Donald Trump is a military recruiter. Yeah. Yeah.

At the point where they put a gun in your hand and give you a potato, their job is done, right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I guess this is perfect timing before we call it a show. Polls. Americans are against the war by a two to one margin. Now Republicans in the leadership in Congress have pretty much totally resigned themselves to a washout in the House.

They might lose as many as 60 seats. The Senate, they pretty much think is gone too. So again, another reason that maybe Donald Trump wants to, to go nuclear in every respect, right? Cancel, drop a nuke on Tehran, can't declare a state of national emergency, cancel the election. Because next year, what is life like

for old 81-year-old Donald Trump? Impeachment, House Oversight Committee, Epstein files, you know, it's not going to be pretty unless he has a game changer in mind. And I look at all the ice stuff. I think we're staring down barrel of

American fascism. See, I thought that though, early on we saw putting military on U.S. soil, when he started putting like militarizing, like ice and all of this other stuff and law and order

and all this other stuff. But that assumes that Donald Trump is thinking strategically in advance in regards to how to take over the country. That may or may not be true, right? It could be true. It could be that he is...

He's a desperate man, though. Yeah, agree, right? I'm always scared of desperate men. I want to say like hey listen we'll take care of you we'll let you go to Saudi Arabia in exile or whatever you want to do you know that's just that way of system works like in regards to that's one of the things that's how the Democrats fucked up by like all the lawfare by cornering him and making him feel like he

has to look out for himself because no one else will no one else will let him by the way setting a precedent for that stuff by doing they were such assholes because they didn't have the big picture Right. All right. Anyway, that's the end of today's show. Jamal, always a pleasure. We will be back tomorrow Friday, April 10th.

We're here Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. Eastern Time. Thanks for liking, following and sharing the shows. Please stay tuned for the TMI show with me and Millen Chan coming right up right now. And at 11 a.m., Scott Stantis and I will also be talking about the war in the state of cartooning on the DMZ America podcast. Bye, Jamal. Have a good one, guys. Thanks, Ted.