DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - First Class Grift | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Editorial cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• Low-cost airlines are asking the Trump administration for $2.5 billion to offset some of the cost of fuel, which has surged because of the war with Iran. Spirit Airlines is negotiating a loan of up to $500 million from the government; the government would have the right to purchase ownership stakes in the airline through financial instruments known as warrants. The government could end up owning as much as 90% of the Spirit, in its second bankruptcy in two years.• A joint offensive by Tuareg separatists of the Azawad Liberation Front and JNIM militants linked to Al Qaeda represented a major setback for Mali’s military junta and its Russian paramilitary partners. Defense minister Lt. Gen. Sadio Camara, a key liaison between the Malian Army and Russian paramilitary forces, was killed in the coordinated attacks. • Gulnara Karimova, the daughter of former Uzbekistan President Islam Karimov, went on trial in absentia in Switzerland in connection with alleged bribery and money laundering involving assets worth hundreds of millions of dollars. She is in a “prison colony” in Uzbekistan. Swiss prosecutors say Karimova developed and ran a crime ring known as “The Office” that involved several dozen people and multiple companies. She is accused of depositing funds “of criminal origin” in Switzerland and abroad, and arranging for safe deposit boxes for the deposit of cash, jewelry and other valuables.MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.livehttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Good morning, Jamarlemus. It's Ted Rawl. And of course, you're watching Deep Program with Ted Roll and Jamarle Thomas. It is Tuesday, April 28, 2026. Thanks for tuning in. Liking, following, and sharing the show. How are you doing this morning, JT? What's going on, man? Doing okay this morning? So far, so good. So kind of an interesting quirky show we have today. We'll be talking about the low-cost airlines, like Spirit Airlines, shaking down you, the federal taxpayer. for the $2 billion that they don't want to give you for your health care. Also, the news out of Mali, I know you're interested in this, J.T. We have the whole story. It involves Russia, France, Mali, the U.S., Al-Qaeda. It's got everything.

And then a story that's near and dear to me, which is Gulnar Karimova. I don't know if, are you familiar with her at all? So she's quite a piece of work, as they say. She's the daughter of the late Uzbek president, Islam Karimov. And he was a spectacularly unpopular despot who used to boil his political opponents to death in a giant vat of water. I have the photos. Anyway, the daughter, and as long as well as the rest of the rest of the family, was looting Uzbekistan for years. Anyway, she's now on trial in absentia in a Swiss court for basically this crazy money laundering and theft operation.

Unfortunately, she can't attend in person because she's already in a Gulag in Uzbekistan. So it's all good times. Anyway, we are here 9 a.m. Eastern time Monday through Friday. for people who are not familiar with my books and stuff, I've written and traveled extensively throughout former Soviet Central Asia. And I know you've been to not maybe the Central Asian republics, but you've been to a lot of former Soviet republics. So you know, and you've lived there.

So you know this dynamic very well. So I think we should just get to it. If you're watching live in the 9 a.m. Eastern Time Hour this Tuesday morning, please put your questions and comments into the live chat on YouTube. YouTube and Rumble. As always, we really appreciate your support. So if you do choose to do a super chat or a Rumble rant, which means that goes with a donation, we will prioritize those and answer your questions first. And we'll be really appreciative. But we appreciate all the questions. We know not everybody is in a position to be able to donate. So we appreciate you just being here to watch. Okay. So with that, what do you want to do first, JT? You want to do the airlines? You want to do the Tuaregs or coming? Let's do Mali. Because the Mali thing fascinates me.

So over, I guess over the weekend, there were reports of a terrorist attack to Mali. Now, to be honest, it's not really a terrorist attack. It's more like a proxy army that attack the country itself, trying to take over multiple locations, including the capital. The Russian forces. Where do they come in from? Are they in a neighboring country? So the belief is that their Western forces, basically France is trying to get his hands back on his former colonial possession.

Mali, Burkina Fasau, and Niger formed the Sahel states. And they were able to basically form governments to throw off, let's say, colonial overreach in the context of their quote-unquote democracies, which weren't really democracies at all, which is part of the reason why the public supports all of these governments. They kicked the French out. They kicked the Americans out. They did both. France has never really gotten over that, nor has America really gotten over that, especially with the Russian influence in the Sahel states providing security and stability for the governments of those countries.

A proxy force of thousands, I think from 10 to 20,000, because the reports differ between the number of people that were involved in us. but it was a force. And it was almost like this kind of Syrian-style attack that succeeded in Syria, but failed in Mali. Part of the reason it fails because the Russian and Mali defense response. Africa Corps from the Russian side worked with the Mali government in order to push back the terrorist attacks in most of the main locations. I think the terrorists were able to take Kindle, K-I-D-A-L, but for the most part, the government and whatnot were preserved and maintained with thousands of dead terrorists who were tried to take over the government.

This was a way for the West that effectively undercut the influence, A, of Russia in the region, but B, also the fact that these Sahel states are not aligned with France, not aligned with the United States, and effectively are charting their own way in Africa. These are mostly military hunters, right, at this point? Yeah, they're hunters. They are. But they're hunters that are supported by the population. And honestly, you can make it.

Let's talk about that for a moment. Military hunters. Under normal circumstances, from standpoint of countries like the U.S., we look at those things as being problematic. However, if you have a, quote, democracy, and that democracy still includes, let's say, imperial influence from countries like France. Like, for example, Niger, France was able to get uranium and other materials

dirt, dirt, dirt, cheap. And the democracy, as they call it, allowed France to do it, effectively scoring over the government itself. With cheap undermarket concessions, which did have benefited the people, but instead did not. Exactly. And it was like radically undervalued. If you look at, let's say the economics of the country, so let's say the gold mines being owned by somebody else, materials being owned about the countries. meaning the hunters, yeah, as Americans, I think we're going to be dodgy of hunters in general, right? By the same token... We used to love them, so it all depends.

Well, as long as we work with them, right? As long as we're working with the government. But in this particular case, these hunters took over specifically in order to overthrow what they consider to be over too much influence of... let's say France in the previous colonial possessions. So even though France said, okay, okay, you're your own country. It was never that case. They were never their own country.

And the democracy was a way of France managing that country by Brexit. Lenters overthrew it. The people resoundingly approved of it. You have people carrying Russian flags, effectively with this idea of pushing back on the French. We're going to have to talk about that. You can go on, but we got to talk about like how on earth, did Russia get involved there? How did they become popular there?

Is it the Russian government or is it the Wagner group, mercenary organization? Like, which is it? And all that, because I mean, it is, but to American ears, it's like, why is Russia in West Africa? Because, I mean, you could ask, why is America in Africa? Sure.

But historically, you know, and historically we haven't been really, except for Liberia. Well, in the Russian case, so there were a few things. When Russia was fighting Ukraine, despite all the propaganda that was taking place in the West, Russia attacked for no reason. Putin just wants to expand his empire all throughout Europe. He's trying to put the bands back together. Yeah, they're trying to put the Soviet Union.

The rest of the world didn't necessarily accept that it's true. That was just stuff that was pumped out to the West. If you were a country that was colonized, if you were a country that was colonized, if you were a that had, let's say, a terrorist issue that you're associated with Western powers. If you had, because a lot of people believe that the terrorism was coming from the West in order to create a reason and a justification for the U.S. or for the matter for the French, be involved in those countries. Basically, we're pushing these guys to behave this way and using them as an excuse

to effectively be involved in the country itself. So when they saw Russia effectively standing against all of the West, they used that as a rallying craft. It was like, whoa, you mean Russia is fighting the Great Empire? You mean Russia is fighting all of these countries? They looked at it as a way of pushing back. Many from Stanford of people carrying Russian flags. Well, there are also historic ties, right, between the old Soviet.

Today's theme seems to be the Soviet Union, right? And obviously, the USSR was tied up with the non-aligned movement and was the leading force. of anti-colonialism in Africa from the outside. Yes. You know, obviously the people who, it's Africans who led that, but they got the most assistance. When Nelson Mandela was inaugurated as a head of the ANC in South Africa,

there were Soviet flags side by side with South African flags, and a lot of Americans were like, what's with that? And he said, these people were the only outsiders who ever helped us. Yeah, so true. And in this particular case, you know, it's like the reality of it is, if you are throwing off the yoke of imperialistic reach, you're going to be a target. And from their point of view, it helped to have, let's say, a big brother that is also a nuclear power, that is also a military power, to help stabilize and protect the government when you know you're under threat. Meaning, it's not like the French said, okay, we're going to just let them do their own thing. That's not the way they looked at it.

In fact, the terrorism in the region was suspected or looked at is coming from Western sources. If you notice, ISIS never attacked Israel. In fact, Israel was actually providing support to ISIS. Right. And even the bodies. They were directly across the border from Israel. Yes, they never attacked. There's like a really, there's some vice documentaries where a vice reporters went into ISIS-controlled Syria.

They crossed from the Golan Heights. which is Israeli occupied Syria. Yes. That's my point. Meaning for all of this talk about, oh my God, these guys are terrorists. Oh, God, these guys are Muslim jihad. It's very weird that the only place is these animals attack

are targets of the U.S. It's very strange. So it's like, yeah, we armed them and funded them. I know people think that's a conspiracy theory. That's not, I mean, it's not like it's a, robust, full-fledged alliance. But we funneled them. Shit. There's no question about that.

Under Obama, Obama gave billions to try to overthrow Syria and did so for years, effectively army terrorist groups in order to do so. Go back and look at Tulsa Gabbard's. When Tulsa Gabbard went on and CNN and Tulsa Gabbard was like, we're army terrorists. Jake was like, well, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? She's like, we're army terrorists. Because we were army terrorists.

When Obama got out of office, the New York Times published a massive article talking about Obama spending billions of dollars to overthrow the Syrian government. It just so happened. It took longer than he thought. Now, I'm saying, Molly was... So I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Jamarville, but I mean, a lot of people might be watching and saying, why do we have to, why do we care about Molly? Why should we care about West Africa?

You know, Molly is desperately poor. Yes, it was the center of the world at one point, literally. I mean, it really was the center of, like, global culture when Timbuktu was at its peak. But that's long gone. Now it's poor and desperate and war-torn and full of rocks. Why do we care? Because right now, what is second place around the world is, I would argue, a third world war with multiple friends that is not recognized as a third world war. Because ultimately the way the media reports it as if these things are separate, all these things are separate spheres. They're not separate spheres. If you're talking about the war with Russia and Ukraine, okay, that is all of the West, including the United States, going after. Russia. If you're looking at the attack on Iran, again, this is the U.S., the same participant in that war

on Iran, going after Iran with Israel using it as a tip of the spear. And then when you look at Africa, once again, what do you have is the U.S., France backing a terrorist group to try to take over one of the Sahel states in order to undermine all of the Sahel states, again, entities that are aligned with Russia. I'm saying that all of these wars, are effectively the same participants in different spheres. The only one that is not necessarily involved militarily is China. But if you're talking about how influence and how the US is effectively trying to maintain hegemony, whether it's in Africa, whether it's in Europe or whether that's in Asia, it's

the same conflict. It's just in different spheres, different lenses. That's why it matters, because this is not like randau attack in Africa. that has nothing to do with anything. It is everything to do with everything else that has taken place around the world. And Mali's also between, it's geo-strategically important, right? It's between a lot of other important things.

Burkina Faso has oil reserves. West Africa has extensive oil reserves. And so it's like, so there could be potential pipeline routes there. It's a migrate, Mali's a migration route between sub-Saharan Africa, and North Africa, which is a feeder line into Southern Europe and a lot of the migrants who drown in the Mediterranean and all that. I mean, it's sort of like Afghanistan. It's not necessarily all about what happens there, but it's like about where it is and what it's in between. Also, don't forget the Sahel states.

Like, these states are somewhat unaligned or non-aligned. And if you end up with a situation, like, if you remember when they pull out of ECOS, the French were trying to get the next. Nigerians to attack another African country for the pants of the French. Like, meaning it mattered to them. They was like, hey, what do you mean when you're going to get the uranium at, you know, like, percent on a dollar? What do you mean? We're not going to be able to get the oil.

What do you mean you're over, you know, changing your overall. And New York has a lot of uranium. People might remember the whole run up to the war against Iraq and the, and the trip to Niger with Valerie Plame's husband and that whole fiasco back, you know, 25 years. years ago. Yeah, it's a lot of uranium. I mean, obviously that's super important. One last point about the, but I think more relevant is people like Ibrahim, Truori, being able to show kind of a new way for Africa. There was concerned that in addition to these three states, other states were also going to effectively have hunters to take over

and get more aligned with the AES countries. If you remember, there was an attempted overthrow of was it Namibia? No, not Namibia. It was a coastal country in Africa, but it was also in West Africa. My point is, part of the concern is... Well, there was Cote d'Ivoire, right? Thank you. That was it, Cote d'Ivoire.

It failed, though. And so I guess my point is, part of the concern is that this becomes a trend that other states in Africa, because, look, the problem with Africa, honestly, when I've had guests on who talked about the African thing, had to do with self-governance, that they've been colonized for so long that many of the governments that are in play are not necessarily in control of their

own affairs. Nigeria, for example, the guy that was on Nigeria was effectively a U.S. puppet, and if I'm not mistaken, the guy was from Chicago. And it's like, they're exerting control over these countries in a way that they don't control their own airwaves, their information space, their economies, even things like mining, those type of things are owned by other sources that effectively pull resources out of the country itself. And whatever you want to say to the junta, one of the things that they effectively did was take control of their natural resources. So have they nationalized do the foreign mining concessions? Yeah. Yeah. The gold insurance. Well, so yeah, that's going to keep things spicy. I mean, look, the United States still isn't over the nationalizations that the Castro

government did in Cuba in 1959. They're not. And they don't like the idea of, let's say, these guys being self-determinate in a way that they weren't prior. So, yes, it's all of the economic stuff. But it's also just what does it mean to have somebody like Ibram Chiorari seen as a, almost like as a political icon? I mean, when he went to Russia, he got standing ovation. And the people in the streets came out for him and defended. In fact, even in the last intact that took place, yet people, regular people, in the streets who are grabbing some of the people who are effectively attacked the country,

meaning they were defending their government, despite the fact that it's a hunt of running the government. So I found this story fascinating. And I know some people would be like, okay, I don't see why this is a big deal. Africa in the coming years will be far more significant. Yeah, well, a lot of people recognize that. China certainly recognizes that. They're trying to spread their influence economics. They're, you know, basically, they don't want to invade and occupy anyone.

They just want to rent them. Yeah. I want to build hospitals. I want to build bridges. I want to build schools. I want you to like me for the things that I've built, not necessarily for just putting military. And maybe, maybe you'll view me if it's between me and another bidder on a project,

maybe I'll give an advantage. Yep. Maybe you'll like me better. Yeah. Yeah. Charm offensive. Total charm offensive. Yeah.

It is fascinating. So what do you think is going to happen here? I mean, the thing about, like, again, the theme of the, you know, a lot of former Soviet republics had borderlines that turned out to be problematic in a post-Soviet environment when it all. You became 15 independent nations. Similarly, a lot of African borders were very poorly drawn, usually intentionally, by typically British cartographers. Now we have, you know, Mali is definitely kind of. of maybe a bigger, it doesn't look so big because of the Mercator projection, but it's actually a big country. It's maybe, you know, it's kind of divided between these tribal factions and the urban versus rural divide, I guess, which we see everywhere. But, I mean, can Molly hold together, I guess is a question, or is that just remains to be seen? I mean, I think so. I mean, the people I talk to about it, they pointed out that, yeah, the terrorists were able to take kiddo, but for the most part, they failed on the objectives of overthrowing the government of the country itself, and that the military is probably going to regroup and regain kiddle, meaning

basically the locations that they took, Mali, is not necessarily going to just split them all those possessions. I think the most interesting thing is this idea of self-defense and how you can make a case this is time is up, that the fact that you have a terrorist force or like 20,000 people that basically raped the capital, that they were able to kill the defense minister. That is problematic. And that is an invitation. Yeah, that's a big deal. That shouldn't happen, right?

Well, so what about the French? Are they, I mean, look, I feel like President Emmanuel Macron is in his last year as president. He's term limited out. And, you know, he's about as popular as Lint. So he's going to be gone. I mean, he's got his hands full. And I think that's a big part of why he, you know, pulled. Also, he's young.

and I think that he's not that interested in French colonization, right? But that could easily change under a right-wing government next year, and which is likely to, I mean, I could see Jordan Baldella, who is Marie Le Penz. She can't run because of a court ruling, but her protege. I mean, the tradition in post-colonial, independent Africa, starting in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s was that the first, the former colonial power is expected or certainly viewed itself as entitled to wade in when

there's a crisis or something that calls for Europe or the, you know, white landia's attention, right? So, you know, Rwanda, for example, right, when the genocide happened there in the mid-1990s, the expectation there was that the French or the Belgians were going to come in and ultimately put it out. And they did. That is ultimately what happened. If something were to go down in Congo now, people might, despite the horrific history there, might turn to Belgium and say,

hey, can you guys help out? Is that tradition done? I think that tradition is kind of finished, right? I don't think the French are going to wait, it's not going to be like, well, France, this is your thing.

You know, you made, Molly, this used to be yours. Now you have to send the foreign legion back, right? Well, the entire point of the overthrow was to get rid of French influence. Right.

And so, yeah, that's, I mean, like, that's finished, right? And the Frenchman had the appetite for it, really. I don't know if they have the appetite. You don't know better than me on that one, whether the French had the appetite. I would say they don't like the fact that the government

or that they were removed. It's a blow to French prestige, for sure. It may be a blow to French prestige. But frankly, you know, decolonization is like the best thing that can happen to a big power, right? France is better off without its colonies. Britain is better off without its colonies. They literally save money.

They can focus on their own countries. They can build high-speed rail. They can quit fucking around. They're no longer a target for their interests are no longer a target for military or terrorist attacks. You're just better off minding your own fucking business in this world. No, I get that. But who to eff are there? That's what I feel.

Well, yeah. Like this is a kind of relationship. It should, like, that stuff needs to stop. These are grown people. They need to be able to function on their own. They don't want them there. Part of the reason that the people were celebrating the French leaving and protesting the French leaving was because they don't want them there. So, yes, I get the sense that that's over with.

But that is not what is happening. Goodbye to all that, as the Fears essay said. Let's talk. Let's bring, Robbie has some housekeeping. So I'm going to put him out in. And also, Robbie, as you. Robbie pointed out, thank you for the reminder. Right before we went on the air, the United Arab Emirates announced that it is withdrawing from both OPEC and OPEC Plus, and I wanted to

sort of break down the implications of that. So anyway, go ahead, Robbie. Whoa. Oh, Robbie, you are muted. I see you muted. Yep, I'm a moron. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to drop a link into both chats for a social media site that we are active on that's called Pickax. And the reason why I'm doing this is because there's no algorithm there. And your favorite cartoonists post weekly columns there every week. And people have been saying, how can I find Ted's columns?

I can't find them anywhere on X. I can't find them anywhere. If you click on the link to Pickax, follow Ted Rawl. He's the only Ted Roll that's there because we have the best Ted Roll. You will be able to see all of his weekly columns. and also I will be animating more of his cartoons going up today. Also, y'all may have noticed there were no clips or shorts posted yesterday. That's because I was very busy and did not have a chance to do it.

So I'll be getting caught up on all that stuff today. Thank you very much, Robbie. Do we have an ad by any chance? Oh, I can answer that question, can't I? You can. Let me even see. Dollar sign. I'm going to get good at this.

I'm going to learn how to do this. I see no ads currently. Okay. Okay. So, all right. Thank you, Robbie. So let's, all right, so UAE is out of OPEC and OPEC Plus. Basically, it seems that they want to produce, they have capacity in excess of five million barrels of a day. And that capacity is mainly sitting idle. And they would like to export more oil. They would like to produce and export more. they're annoyed by the OPEC cartels limitations on how much they're allowed to produce. That's what a cartel does, right?

Like a cartel basically says, you know, we're not going to unleash too much supply onto the market in order to keep the prices up. I mean, certainly no danger of the prices not being high enough now. I guess the question is, JT. Are we going to, I'm, I mean, is the, I'm wondering, I mean, I'm not seeing any reporting to this, but to this effect, but the UAE is bottlenecked by the Strait of Ormuz. They are now effectively controlled by Iran. Could this, could they be seeing the writing on the wall and realizing that they're going to have to maybe not necessarily make nice, but reach some sort of accommodation

with Iran in order to be able to do business in the future? And could this be related? Or is this sort of a decision that may have just been in the making pre-war, and now we're just seeing the aftermath of it? No, I don't think it was in the making pre-war. All right. Something else was going on. So Saudi Arabia is at odds with the UAE. They are bumping heads big time, especially over the war. Saudi Arabia, for example, the UAE put a thing saying that it needed the United States effectively compensated in some way, like basically to have money swaps because it was running out of cash. The UAE also, was it Saudi Arabia? The UAE was pissed off at Pakistan also because Pakistan was holding in the negotiations with Iran, effectively saying if you're going to be neutral to Iran,

we're going to be pissed off at you because Iran has been hitting our oil fuels. Saudi Arabia has been backing Pakistan in regards to these negotiations, which has put Saudi Arabia and UAE at odds and they've been at odds for a while. This is astonishing. I mean, UAE, has been part of that since, what, 19607? I think the reporting said. That's exactly correct. Yeah. Via Abu Dhabi. Yeah, that's what, 80 years? Yeah, no, no, it's not that long. I was born in 1963.

So it's 59. 40, 50, 60. I'm sorry. 60 years. I'm sorry. I'm mad. Never do math. When they are, if I'm trying to work, I was like 80. Yeah, 80. Sometimes I feel 80. It's a long time to be part of a process, and for that process to effectively break down. Normally, when they are at odds, they still stay part of OPEC. Meaning, regardless of the odds, the Saudi Arabia and UAE had over the years, they've stayed in debt.

And now they're like, we're out. This is directly related to the war. That's the way around it. Now, the question is, what does it mean? And that's more. Yeah. I need time to think about that. I just saw this on air.

I don't even want to speculate on air. I mean, look, UAE is like Israel's ass boy and also America's ass boy. So, I mean, look, it seems to me like if I'm sitting in Riyadh, I'm throwing, you know, golden dinner plates at the wall and saying, you fucking got you fucking assholes, your scabs. You just want to, you just want to undercut us and depress the price of oil. And, you know, so that you can basically, you know, take the pressure that Iran off the necks of the Americans and the, and the West.

That's all this is about and the Israelis. How does it get through the Strait of Formos? But I don't, yeah, they can't get through. That's my question. They can't get through the Strait of Formos. You know, I don't think any pipelines solve their problems, you know, because they solve the Red Sea to deal with. I mean, they still have, you know, they still have the Houthis to deal with.

And they don't, the Houthis, they don't even, the Iranians don't even need the Houthis to close that up, right? No. So, I mean, I don't know. It might turn out to just be like, there's something. going on here that we're not. They're pissed off at Saudi Arabia. They are. Like,

if you look in the media reports, Saudi Arabia and UAE have been at odds over the fact of the Iran war. Iran was able to hit multiple locations. The UAE. The UAE is pissed off that they were able to hit multiple locations in the UAE and they

they pissed off at Pakistan and they pissed off in Saudi Arabia. Meaning, the war has created divisions that weren't necessarily there or the Israelis that didn't bubble up to the degree that they're bubbling up now. Yeah, I guess my thing is your question. It's like, yeah, you pull out of OPEC, but you still can't get your oil from point A to point B.

No. Even if Donald Trump loves the fact that you pull out of OPEC because it splits the cartel, you still can get your oil up. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. I'm like, you guys do own a map, right? I mean, I don't understand.

But I think it has to do with the divisions between Saudi Arabia and the U.E and the fact that Iran has been hitting UAE. I mean, it hit Saudi Arabia, too, but UAE's been taking a beating. So, fascinating. Just fascinating. I guess my thing is mean. That's the part that I'm unclear on. I'm going to have to get somebody to talk about it. All right. Let's answer a few questions here. Okay, well, we'll talk about that. We're getting to the airline afterwards. Thanks very much for the donation, Black Spock. Much appreciated. Ted and JT. Flandarina. What's your take on Ukraine, anger and frustration with Russia for selling seized Ukrainian wheat to should be Ukrainian

allies like Israel. Zelensky is said to be planning sanctions. What sanctions could he plan? He said war. War is the biggest sanction you could impose. Right. Right. Look, Russia, if I understand the question, right? Russia has an odd relationship with Israel. It's a strange. And even when I've had people to talk about it. They're like, yeah, it's kind of strange, especially Putin's relationship in essence. Doesn't shock me, unfortunately. Right. It's weird. Yeah, it is weird. And just be clear, the U.S. being a close ally to Israel and the United States at war with the U.S., like, it's very strange in the way that it operates. Totally. All right, we should,

I got to talk about this Uzbek story because it's so interesting. So Uzbekistan, is a very, it's an particularly natural gas, but also oil producing state and former Soviet Central Asia, most notable because it is the only Central Asian Republic out of the seven with borders that touch all of the other ones, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, so on. It's also the one with the biggest cities, including Tashkent, which is big enough to have its own metro system. For many years, if you could, the only airline, the only city you could fly into from outside of the former Soviet Union into Central Asia was Tashkant. The only, the only city with banking was Tashkent, right? So it's like the metropolis. And it was run in the

post-Soviet era by this guy, Islam Karimov, who basically all the former Soviet Central Asian republics until like the late 90s were all run by their former Soviet party boss and Karimov was one of those he's dead now but while he was in power his family was looted the shit out of Uzbekistan and his no one was more flamboyant or over the top than his daughter Gulnara so Gulnara was basically like they called her the princess of Uzbekistan even though of course it's Technically not a kingdom. But, you know, even though it has a tradition of monarchy, going back to the Emirates of Bukhara and Kiva and Samarkhan.

Anyway, the point is, Golnara was so over the top. She was basically partying like it was, you know, 1855, 1899, with the people's money. The people were desperately poor, right? Like the average income there until like 2000 was 20 bucks a month. The level of the police were not paid. So basically you'd encounter the police every like kilometer. So if you were driving or walking and they'd be shaking you down.

People you just see like suddenly if you were walking in the crowd, you'd see people running away. You'd be like, oh, a cop's coming. And you just know to run the same direction as everyone else. Otherwise, you're going to be shaken down for money, especially if you're a foreigner. So I mean, the point is the level of corruption is unfathomable. Okay, it's like even by Central Asian standards.

And anyway, Goulnara also was a singer. She released CDs and albums. She went on tour. I mean, so she was basically like the, I'm trying to think of if there's an example of anyone's. There's kind of like really kind of like nothing else like it. She was the Imel de Marcos of Central Asia. She was insane. Okay.

And so ultimately, you know, her father died. And then there was a rupture within the. system, and the new president ultimately had her imprisoned. So she's being kept in, I'm sure, very pleasant conditions in this Soviet era prison colony in Western Uzbekistan. And now she's on, she's been extradited by the Swiss, but the Swiss can't get her because she's in prison in Uzbekistan. They decided to go ahead and put her on trial. According to the Swiss, and I suspect the Swiss are probably right here, she ran a crime. ring called the office that involved several dozen people, multiple shell corporations.

And she is accused of basically depositing funds in the form of gold, silver bars, cash, jewelry, crypto, you name it, everything. You know, basically in safety deposit boxes, in numbered accounts. She was, I mean, I think it might be impossible to understand how much money that this woman and her cronies grifted out of Uzbekistan. And it's like, I guess the question is, I have a bunch of questions here. First of all, does it make any sense to try someone in absentia at all? I mean, they don't have the ability to defend themselves by definition, right?

I mean, it's a country like Switzerland. I guess they're looking at it. Yeah, I guess they're looking at as a trial on principle. Like from the same point of government, we've convicted this person if this person comes. But yeah, that's right. They don't have the ability to defend themselves. That's the issue. Like, many people have a right to self-defense, right?

And it's not like she's refusing to come. I think she probably would rather be on trial in a Swiss courtroom than where she is now. You think they have better prisons. Oh. It's like I can move up in a prison. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, that's a really good question.

Does it make sense to be tried in absention? Would she go to Switzerland for that trial if she was out? Well, that part I don't know. But let's just say she were given a choice right now, like the Swiss were to visit her in prison and say, you can either come with us or you can stay here. She'd go. She should. That would be the wise move. I doubt she's protected where she is now.

See, I don't know. I've never been to Uzbekistan, so I don't know what it looks like. in practice, like to know what their jails or stuff like that look like. Oh. So imagine bleak, now multiply by bleak by a thousand. If she was a princess, so how did she get caught?

I mean, what did they do? The moment that the president, the moment that the new president came and they prosecuted. The moment, but it was like basically, you know, they were like, this woman's out of control. She makes it respect. And the thing is she was also like an international

party animal, right? She was in the gossip pages, like in Paris Match Magazine. She was like, she was always hobnobbing with celebs. You know, she tried to release her albums in the West and tried to become a big star. I mean, there was a time period when she was on page six of the New York Post. I mean, Gulnara, I mean, it's, it's, do you remember Angelique in L.A.? Do you know who I'm talking about? Is it Angel.

Oh, no, no, it's not Angelique. What is her name? Oh, my God, it's going to come to me. There is a woman who's famous for being famous in LA. She's just a big, brassy blonde with big boobs. And there's just a picture of her and her first name on billboards all over Los Angeles. And it's been there for like 30 years. And nobody knows what she does or what she's up to.

And basically, she's famous for being famous. Her husband basically pays for these ads. And that's kind of like what Gulner was like. Angelene, that's what it is. Angelene. Thank you very much, Brasmodel. I was interesting. So she was like the original socialite for Uzbekistan.

Interesting. I mean, look, I don't know if there's a purpose in trying somebody in absentia. I mean, maybe it's a legal issue more than anything else. Would she go to trial if it was a better prison? Well, yeah, to step up if it was a better prison, right? And Switzerland is probably going to have different laws and probably going to have limited time. Do you know how long she's in that prison? Like how long they...

I don't think she's, it's an indeterminate sentencing. Basically, look, Uzbekistan's a dictatorship, okay? I mean, it's a brutal, tyrannical dictatorship. And so they basically, law isn't really a big part of the equation there. So is this a political prosecution? 100%. Not that she doesn't have it coming. It sounds like she's just a party girl.

But the embezzlement was from Uzbekistan. So there is a reason for the prosecution. Oh, what I'm trying to get it? She has raped the Uzbek people and the treasury for years. So, I mean, basically there's two in the, I don't know if this is what's the case in the former Soviet republics that you were in, although I would suspect it was, but you tell me. But like, basically there's two models in former Soviet Central Asia, right, which is the Kazakh model, where you basically, the ruling family, they grift and they skim off the top. but they share most of the oil wealth with the people. And so basically it provides social and political stability,

and everybody's in on it together, but the ruling families still get the lion's share. Then there's the Turkmen and the Uzbek model where basically the ruling family takes everything and millions of, while millions of ordinary people are starving to death and basically barely able to subsist. And then there's sort of the Kyrgyz and Tajik models, which is like they putter along the best you can because you don't really have any natural resources to steal in the first place. Oh, I see.

So Azerbaijan was, Azerbaijan functions on all money. And there's a mafia-style government in office. If you remember, Azerbaijan got real pissed off at Russia. Because Russia started locking up mobs like mafia that just so happened to be in Russia. And it's like, hey, you seem to have very strong feelings with the fact that they're locking up mafia people. Right? It's like, why don't care that Russia is locking up the mob? Well, obvious, right?

So there's that Georgia, I'm not sure about Georgia's political system, to be honest. Pashion, no, Pachian is... Is it still Aliyah in Azerbaijan? Is it still President Aliyev or is it someone else? Yes. Alief, he's so president. Yeah, he's so president. When I went to play chess with this woman who owned the chess club,

she was very strong. Her brother was like second strongest in the world. But she plays in tournaments, and Aliev is sitting there, you know, shaking hands with all these guys. So yeah, so Alieff. Pachian is Armenia. I forget who's running Georgia. But Georgia was more complicated.

Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, those, I'm not sure. the ins and outs of the government of Georgia. I pay more to teach you politically to the government of Azerbaijan just because it's proximity to Iran and the fact that it was in a less transparent way

allowing his airways to be open to attacks on Iran. Not to mention the caucuses and what the United States is trying to do with this kind of freedom. And then Belarus is basically in a national union with Russia now. Yes. Yes. You mean as much as much on? Not merged, but they're like...

It's complicated. Because if you remember, they were at odds. They were at serious odds at one point, like going back last year. I'm not quite sure where they are now. I mean, they were talking about patching it up. But part of the issue that they're having is this kind of freedom quarter that the United States is trying to get his hands on. Basically, Trump wants to be able to get emroads into the caucuses, something that Iran, Russia, I'm not going to really have issues with.

This was way beyond the point. I'm sorry. It's hard for me to answer those questions. I could say that Azerbaijan is more to the mafia thing. Georgia, I'm unclear. So we say mafia, mafia? Because there is, of course, all these former Russia, you know, Soviet spaces have actual mafia.

Are you talking mafia-like governance, which is not the same? I mean, the mob. A mob. Because there were infiltrations into Russia that were taking place associated with Russia calling it the mob. Basically, what we would consider the mob in the United States. Oh, yeah. The government itself took issue with Russia,

putting what Russia considered to be criminals, who were part of a criminal enterprise in jails. If you remember, it was Russian media. There was, I believe it was Azerbaijan, where they beat the shit out of the press. I mean, some of the people had black ass and everything else, but that was their response to Russia lacking up. people were in the mob.

And so it was like this kind of wild situation where it's like, whoa, why are you taking issue with Russia putting obvious mob people? Like people who were obviously involved with the mafia, Afljan, that infiltrated Russia that was into criminal enterprises in Russia. You don't understand. Our mob is nothing, or was nothing,

compared to these people. I mean, I remember, I mean, oh my God, I have so many stories. I mean, but like, you know, for example, if you walked into a bar or a disco anywhere in a former Soviet Republic back in the 90s or the odds, and I'm sure this is true now.

And the place is empty. And you just look at it, you just choose a table. And you'd see the waitstaff, like I learned this, and you'd see them have a look of sheer terror. Now I know to get up and be like, is this other table okay? And they'd be like, yeah, this is like,

Karasho, which means okay in Russian. Like, that's cool. Because like that table is the mafia table. Now, the odds are the mafia guys never come in there, ever, ever. But if they saw someone sitting at their table, you know, guns are going to come out. Everyone's going to die, right? What? I mean, like my favorite of these stories was in, this was I guess in the late 90s.

Things were really crazy. They still are. I was in Wuramuchi in Western China. And I had just taken the train from Beijing, been in China for three and a half weeks. I'm a coffee addict, right? And it's like, so no coffee in China. All the tea in China, right? No coffee.

Yeah. So, but I'm like, I wake up in Buramucci. I'm like, oh my God, I'm in the Muslim zone. What Muslims, you know what Islam means? Yes, it means Allah. It means coffee. So I'm like, so I'm like, okay, so I go out and ask like, where can I get a cup of coffee?

They're like, the holiday inn. So in Muramuchi, I'm like, so the holiday in there is like a four star hotel. So I go over to the holiday end. And I walk into a scene right out of a Quentin Tarantino movie. There are bodies everywhere. Blood splatters all over the walls on the furniture. It's like it's mayhem. Probably like 15 people dead.

The cops have just arrived and they're just trying to figure it out. Weight staff is dead. Everyone's dead, right? So I talked to the cops. The Chinese cop, they go, this shit happens all the time. It's fucking Russian and Kazakh mobsters. They're four hours away on the highway from the border. They come over here.

They're looking for one guy. They don't really know what he looks like. So just they know he's here. So just to be safe, they kill everybody, including the waitstaff. And so this, and I'm like, how often? They're like, oh, this is like all the time. Like, we're used to it. And they were like relaxed about it.

They're like literally like in a Quentin Tarantino movie like mopping up the blood. And I mean, that was a routine for them. And by the way, I can get that cup of coffee. A waiter shows up later, and he's, like, stunned. And I'm like, you can make me coffee, right? And he's like, yeah. Are you saying? I'm so they're like dead bodies all over.

Dollars for a cup of coffee. I was so pissed for fucking Nescafe. But, like, anyway, whatever. But, dead. I think you missed me context. There were all these dead bodies. And you're all in. I needed that.

Do you need, okay, I'm a coffee addict. I don't know if you understand. Yeah, I had to have it. It's been a month. I was dying. Apparently, a lot of people were. The mafia is crazy. All right. So, I mean, those people weren't going to be any less dead if I didn't have my cup of coffee. True, true, true. Manchild, a Swiss banker on trial said they didn't know they were laundering money. They just had too many confusing rules.

Is Swiss banking the world's most expensive game of I didn't see that memo? Look, as a former Japanese banker, I was not Japanese, but I worked for a Japanese bank, let me just say that money laundering is a standard thing that all international bankers do every single fucking day, and you know you're doing it, and there's no question about it. And you have, I guess, some plausible deniability in that you don't know the source and you know or you might suspect. But if you're not told, you don't really have any obligation. And anyway, nothing would ever get done if people were turning in these people because that's all there is.

It's like there's so much graft and illegality. Money laundering is normal. I don't know. I just feel like the Swiss no. And by the way, the Swiss don't guarantee you're safe. It's not like the 1960s. Your money's not safe in Switzerland. If you really want, if you really want privacy, go to, you know, go to Luxembourg.

It's much better. they don't really know who you are and so they can't turn you in quick Attic Scorpion thanks for the $4 have you guys seen the new Michael Jackson movie

and if so what did you think of it Michael Jackson Have you heard about it No I didn't even know they had another movie My movie for it

I mean what Look at any context Yeah there's a new movie It is being criticized roundly For not getting into the child abuse the pedophilia accusations, I guess I should say.

And basically it sort of ends before all of that. So it's kind of like, I think it's the general take, and I have not seen this, so I don't know if it's fair or not, is that it's a whitewash. If being molested by Michael Jackson cures cancer, now, this sounds outrageous. Do you remember? All right.

So do you remember when they did that, Michael Jackson did that disastrous interview? And in an interview that was this kid and the kid kept rubbing and hugging on Michael Jackson. It was so weird. And the kid had cancer. And it was like, being molested by Michael Jackson cure his cancer. It's like, okay.

Bad joke, fair enough. But that, talk about an interview that was worse than interview with Chris Andrews. I think where Prince Andrews made the argument that that's pretty that's pretty much and I couldn't sweat anymore because when I was in the war it scared me shitless

and I stopped lost ability to sweat. So obviously she's lying when she's saying I was a heavy sweater. And I was like, what? What are you saying? Right now. It looked super weird that that kid was rubbing and hugging on Michael Jackson. And people started like, whoa.

Yeah, it's very weird. It's good for a man to give his love to a child. It's like, what? Not really. No, not really. I think to me the worst interview anyone's ever given ever is Gary Condit. Given the fact that he turned out to be innocent, right? Yeah.

Gary Condit did not kill Shandra Levy, but he looked so fucking guilty and like so creepy. Everyone was convinced that he had. That was the end of him. I mean, that's a bad interview. Who's the guy who was accused of killing Chandra Levy. He was a congressman from Northern Central California. And he was

accused of killing. Well, he had an affair with his intern. Yeah, don't get those. I know you may think the interview is coming out right? Don't get those interviews. Somebody should have told Prince Andrews, don't do it. It's a good question, right? Like, people who are in crisis, they often end up, you know, I mean, back in the day they'd go on with Barbara Walters or whatever. I don't know. Like, I'm trying to think, is there an example in crisis management where someone who's beleaguered like that gives an interview?

And then it helps. Oh, I guess Bill and Hillary Clinton during the 1992 Democratic primaries when there were the bimbo eruptions. Yeah. I think it did help quell things. But it's Hillary who really did it. See, the issue is. You want to explain yourself. But the moment that you have a conversation, it splits.

Like, if you and I get into an argument, it would fracture. There'll be some people who think, I'm right. There'll be some people who think you're right. And by the way, this could be with one of us being complete and wrong, right? And so when you're in an interview like that and you're like, okay, I have to deal with allegations that I was sexually abusing women with Epstein. How do you get out of that interview convincingly? I don't know. I wouldn't do it.

Bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, no. It's true. I think generally speaking, you're better off. I mean, unless you're truly innocent, pure as the driven snow. And you can, I mean, part of the issue is like you have to also be able to convey how angry you are, right?

There's the fugitive case, right? The real that the movie is based on. The doctor in Cleveland, who really didn't kill his wife, but he was such a cold. fish that the end he didn't cry and like, no, I didn't do whatever, said that the jury didn't believe him and sent him off to prison, right? That's, I mean, I mean, I mean, part of the problem is people are different. Oh, somebody's frozen. Are you frozen to it? Can you guys see me? Can you ask you me or is it it? Is it me or is it it? It's 10. Oh, okay, okay. Look, part of the problem is people are looking at you from the perspective

of their perspective. I give an example. My mom and I were watching this film. You get the situation where she looks at it and says, the big guy's going to be a problem. I was like, the big guy has nothing to do with this. This is about luck.

This is about the relationship. This is about the couple and everything else. Meaning how people see you is based on their own experiences. And one person may be unemotional. Somebody else may be overly emotional. And they're looking at that and they're judging you by themselves,

which is a problem. There is. Okay, we all froze up there for a second. Oh, no. That was 100% you. You failed, sir. You choked like a franchise. I just want to go on record and say,

fuck Spirit Airlines and fuck these fucking airlines that want a $2.5 billion like bailout from the taxpayers. I mean, these are shitty airlines. They're not too big to fail. They give shit. There's so many consumer complaints about them. as far as I'm concerned, they can all go under. Why do they want to, what is their reason?

What is their argument from the $2 billion or whatever the hell they're trying to get from? Oh, you're going to die of laughter. It's the war because the U.S. attacked Iran, and so all the oil prices have gone way up. So jet fuel prices are way up. And unlike the big carriers like American United and Delta, these smaller carriers, they don't hedge themselves with oil futures. So they're buying jet fuel at the old prices so they can't stay afloat. Spirit was already in trouble and they're asking for a half a billion dollar loan that you know they're not going to be able to pay off.

If they can't pay it off, then the United States government becomes the owner of Spirit Airlines. So, I mean, in a way, I guess I should approve as a socialist of de facto nationalizing of corporate assets. But I would hope that we could like seize a better airline than Spirit. Yeah, I agree with you. If the business can't operate, then that's on the business. And like, that is... Right. Isn't that the essence of capitalism?

Right? It is. And us owning the business, it's not going to give us cheaper prices. So, yeah, I think it kick rocks. Yeah, yeah, like... And also, I really don't think they're too big to fail. I mean, if these carriers go out of business, I mean, by the way, they're not really low cost, right? It's like basically the ticket price is low cost.

but if you oh you'd like to bring luggage that's $100 each way i mean that's not an exaggeration no there's not an exaggeration that's how much it costs they may say it's 150 each way they can say because what they try to do is basically cut services to cut costs yeah that's it yeah we have a we have a question before we close out for today uh maybe blue funk guys regarding the accusers do people care sometimes i wonder if the average manages to pour Caligula, e.g. The abuses of the Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, surely people knew. Well, some people knew, obviously. I think people care. I mean, and the Catholic Church is a little bit different, just because they're functioning around a particular ideology, in which case they want to defend

the ideology. It's fight-to-fighting these people of pedophiles. But I think if you go to just regular people, they feel some kind of way about stuff. It's, you know, like, I think people are empathetic, especially at a distance, if that makes sense. Like, meaning they can see something and feel some kind of way about, like, hey, that's outrageous. Hey, that shouldn't happen, et cetera, et cetera, especially if they're not in that context and they just think it's wrong. If I see somebody get murdered, I mean, it feels away about the person I got murdered.

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are. We have, we appreciate you watching this particular program, this show. My name is Jamal Thomas. I am joined with Ted Raw and Robbie. Below as the producer, you guys are fantastic, great audience, and we will see you right in early tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. Stay tuned for Manila Chan with Ted Raw. You guys have a fantastic day. Be safe. Sign it off.