DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Former Olympic Athlete in Court for Reflecting Pool Vandalism | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM ET. Today we discuss:• Federal prosecutors are already off to a bad start in their case against U.S. Olympian David Hearn, charged with “vandalism” for touching the DC Reflecting Pool after Trump’s renovation went wrong.• In an echo of the killing of Renee Good by ICE, DHS said that Salgado Araujo had rammed an ICE vehicle and “weaponized” his white work van “in an attempt to run over an ICE law enforcement officer.” But three men who were arrested during the botched attempt to arrest someone else said the ICE officer fired at them almost immediately after exiting his vehicle and that at no point did the driver veer in his direction.• Is Mitch McConnell alive? What exactly are Republicans covering up?LIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowhttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomas#tedrall #jamarlthomas #news #politics

It's Friday, July 10th, 2026, and you are watching Deep Program with Ted Roll and Jamal Thomas. I keep trying to join the show without some kind of like weird spooge on my shirt, but I failed again today, two days in a row. I promise it's just either coffee or water. It's nothing untoward. Anyway, hopefully it'll evaporate some point during the show. Thanks everyone for joining, unless that one guy pays the $5,000 in which case, you know. For those wondering, no, I did not drool on Ted's shirt. So we are innocent.

We're counting the hours for that. Thanks everyone for joining us. Please like, follow and share the show. We're here live Monday through Friday 9 to 10 a.m. So Eastern Time, if you're watching live, please like, follow and share. And, of course, chime in with your live questions anytime in between 9 and 10 a.m. paid ones get priority, but as you guys know, we try to get to everything. All right, so let's get to it.

Good morning, Jamaral. How are you doing? Doing okay. It's not in the best of shape, but I'm okay. Okay. All right. All right. Well, I won't insist, because I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to be insisted upon. So I don't insist upon others. We're both I ask you as we know how to do it. Sorry?

You say insist upon? What do you mean? Like, oh, like, is something going on? Are you sure you're okay? Oh, no, my stomach just hurts. No, it's. Oh, you're saying. I woke up this one and like, it was just in pain. And I didn't even do my show this morning. My mom, when she hit me up, anytime I don't do my show, my mom is like, is everything okay? She thinks of a diet or something.

And I think it was like 840. And she was like, are you doing Ted show? And I was like, what? It's like, holy shit. That's wrong. Oh, yeah, that. Yeah, but that. Although today, was it like this for you?

Today, maybe it's because of the holiday last week. Yesterday felt like a Friday. Like, I feel like today's Saturday. Yesterday did feel like a Friday. Yeah. It did feel like a Friday. I don't know why. It just did feel like a Friday.

Yeah, yeah. I totally felt that way. And it's definitely, you know, today's definitely not a Saturday. Today we've got D-Program, TMI, and I've got DMZ coming up at 11 AM. interview with cartoonist, Alexander Bowman, for those who are interested. She's a young cartoonist, and she's going to be telling us why editorial cartooning sucks. I have a feeling I'm going to agree with most of what she has to say. Anyway, all right, let's get to it.

We have basically the topics we have in the queue. I mean, obviously we can talk about the Iran War, although there's not really new developments. It's more of an ongoing cluster fuck, but, you know, ongoing cluster fikes are worth checking in on sometimes. Do you want to talk about that, or should we get straight to this? to this shooting down in, where was this? Oh, God. Salgado Arrallo.

This was in Memphis. No, where was this? Sorry, I can't believe I'm so disorganized this morning. We get to the shooting. I mean, because as you said, there's nothing really new in the war that I've become aware of. I mean, there is a story that Vanessa Bieli ran with

where Trump went, to, okay, so, you know, Trump made this offhand remark where he said something like, yeah, I'll let Jelani do it. Basically, I'll let the terrorists do it, as opposed to Israel doing it, because the terrorists, weirdly enough, he doesn't believe they're going to murder a lot of people, despite the fact that they've been ethically cleansing in Syria. As he's like, I'll let Jilani do it. I let the terrorists do it, which is, there's so many layers to that that's well, right? Jelani used to run the Syrian branch of Isis or Arcade, choose your alphabet suit. And Trump brings him in saying, good-looking guy, strong pass. And he's like, yeah, a strong pass of chopping off heads.

I mean, he's acting like chopping heads was a youthful indiscretion as opposed to, you know, chopping off heads. And it makes it that much clear when people make the statement that, you know, this is a CIA M-I-6 creation of sorts or the very least. co-opted many of these people in order to work our behest. So whether they're sending terrorists down to Sahel states in order to disrupt what's taking place in regards Somali, Burkina Faisal, and Niger, or whether it's using it here. And in this case, people were like, okay, well, is that an offhand remark? And Vanessa, who lives in Lebanon, who was there in Syria when Syria fell, was like, that's

not an offhand remark. And then you get Trump having the conversation with Erdogan saying, I'm removing the sanctions. So if you want your F-35s, you're going to get your F-35s. Okay, well, why is Trump doing that now? And are these things related to one another? And the answer seems to be yes. Turkey, or Turkey, depending on how you want to call it, has influence over Jolani. In fact, Jalani is only in that position because of Turkey of the United States in Israel.

So he's not a person unto himself. So even though when asked, he was like, yeah, I just want to bow. for Lebanon and everything else. He is a massive military of terrorists that are on the Lebanese border. And so that's the, if I was going to say anything that's moving, it's that. But yeah, you're right. The war is basically where it was yesterday. Yeah. So, all right, so this shooting was in Houston, Texas and I apologize for not being able to recall that right away. So basically, this is very reminiscent of the Rene good thing. So basically ICE officers, DHS, they were allegedly looking for one dude.

They didn't find him. He's still running around. But they basically went to, they confronted a bunch of other migrants. and the one guy ended up dead. Salgado Arajo is his name. He immediately, once again, just like would happen with Renee Good in Minneapolis, the authorities immediately said he tried to block, to weaponize his car, he tried to drive over the officer.

However, three witnesses, now admittedly, these are three migrant witnesses, but three witnesses who were also arrested all had the same story to tell, even though they were all being held in separate places, separate cells. And they all said that, no, he didn't ram the car, that he didn't weaponize his vehicle, that the officers in question were neither in front nor in back but to the side of the car and therefore could not have gotten hit. it looks like another trigger-happy ICE officer shot someone for no reason and then arrested shot one guy and arrested three other people, none of whom they happened to really be looking

for at the time. And then, and now, you know, here we are. I don't know. I mean, it's like with shootings of unarmed black guys by white cops. It just happens over and over. And you wonder, will there ever be any end to it? But, you know, there will certainly be, there's already controversy. There are already protests. The immigrant community in Houston and their allies have already mobilized. There's already protests. You know, it's hot and spicy in Texas in July.

You know, I would imagine we will hear about this for a while. Well, I guess the question is, would there be consequences? If there are no consequences, the message is going to keep happening. Yeah. I mean, that's... Most likely not. Usually there aren't.

But that's what it boils down to, right? Like, it's one thing if... Like, for example, after the George Floyd stuff, and you got this mass uprising. Okay, that's a consequence. Right? That's a clear, definitive consequence

of the public rejecting what is taking place. Right. Burning, like, it might have... You can make an argument that has gone too far in some cases. I would argue that there were provocateurs in some of these cases. And in other cases, obviously, they went too far. It's protests.

That's kind of the point of protest. Or you could also argue it didn't go far enough. And that, I mean, it's a protest. Like, the entire point of protest is not to be peaceful. I know people think otherwise that we've sanitized it, where it's like, well, everybody's just calm and cool and collect. A protest is a threat. That's what it is.

You have a huge number of people who are effectively asserting power. or at the very least, potential power that could be utilized if indeed X, Y, Z continues. That's the point. I don't want people burning down liquor stores. That feels dumb to me. But from a standpoint of rejection of power, yes. But I think what needs to happen or what should have happened, it should need a protest for that. It should be just, hey, maybe we don't want our cops or ICE agents.

murdering people. Have about that? It doesn't seem like it should be asking a lot. You wouldn't think, but apparently it is. I mean, these people think they're, you know, immune to opposition. And they're not wrong, are they? I mean, it's like nothing much happens to them.

Yeah, they don't seem to be wrong. Hence, it continues. It happens again. There's no, it does with impunity. So yeah, anything that happens with impunity is going to continue to happen. Yeah. I mean, for sure, no question about it. Yeah, let's see if we have any questions we need to get to.

All right, yeah, we do. Okay, so we are going to be talking about the reflecting pool. FU so. This sort of the reflecting pool wasn't damaged by trans women swimmers. Maybe too much rudder. Thanks for the $2. All right. Be honest, Ted, John D. Cacoffeller.

It's a pregame hog crank sesh. We all do it immediately before D program. And I do mine after. Avoid precisely this sort of thing. But yeah, anyway, no Jeffrey Toobin type situations here. Oh, Jesus. You know, I mean, that's the thing. I don't know how he came back to work after that.

That is rough. He's back. He's like, he's at times. He's at CNN. But that's amazing to me. all these people seen as did and like the worst aspect of it like him like that is like the most undignified shit in the world i understand that everybody within your context feels like when a person has sex they feel like the movies or something like that but if somebody watches it it just looks

ridiculous yeah right because it's outside of context like you're in a context with somebody else Both of you are, you know, it's loving, it's beautiful. This is a beautiful thing. That type of thing. Powerful. But if anybody's watching it, it's not like a porn set. It's like, if you've ever walked in on someone doing it, it's like, whoa. Yeah.

It's random 40s in undignified positions. That's rough. I feel bad for him because obviously it wasn't on purpose. No, he was, yeah. I wish he would have said, it's a beautiful thing before cutting off here. It was as, I mean, you know, it was a weird, well, I mean, it's kind of like a tribute to how boring Zoom meetings are. I mean, he literally was on a Zoom meeting with a New Yorker, you know, who are some of the most illustrious writers in the country, or at least they used to be. And the, and like he's so bored that he's like, oh, you know, I can multitask here.

I can rub one out while, you know, I'm on this meeting with 24 people. Who's going to know? And I'm like, why don't you just do the thing that the kids were doing during COVID and just like turn off your camera, go do it somewhere else, right? Just like, I'm here. Well, I suppose he thought it was turned off. I don't think he started whacking off on purpose. Oh, no, totally. It's totally in answer, of course.

Yeah. I mean, I don't feel that sorry for him for the simple reason that like, look, it's like Richard Geer. That story will always follow him. Like if Jeffrey Tubman walked into a New York City party, everyone would be like, look, is Jeffrey do? But he's his dick. It's like he's never going to live that down. It's going to be like, you know, like I had a friend who gave a speech when she got her Pulitzer and she said, the thing that we all have in common in this room is we all know the first few

words of our obituary, right, Pulitzer Prize winning. And he knows, like that will be in his obituary. It will be. Or it will be talked about around his death. On the other hand, I don't feel serious. He didn't go back to work for the New Yorker, but he kept everything else, you know. But it took months. Like he was away for like four or five months or three or four months or whatever that number is.

Like he went away for a while. He was like, okay. But he's part of the police in. They decide, you know, like if you're, some people can fuck up royally and like, and they're in. They're still, their grandfathered in. Yeah, that's a particular type of fuck up. Like that's humiliating. Like, it's just humiliate, like, everybody masturbates and everybody knows that everyone masturbates, but it's different to watch somebody masturbate.

Right. And you're not even talking about a female year old. You know, work media. Yeah, I think it's no meaning, though, that's. Well, I think the reason why Tobin got a, got a pass is because he was doing it to the news that Trump was going to get indicted. That's what turned him on. So he was masturbating to that. And they were like, yeah, let's talk about that. Fact check it. It was when Trump. got indicted before he got his famous mug shot,

you know, when it looked like he had real chance to go into the pokey. I'm just actually aroused by that. Oh, that's what I'm going to say. You're saying that Jeffrey Toobin got so aroused when he was listening to them to talk about Trump getting indicted. He just saw it whacking one out.

Just I mean, listen, I mean, the two of you all know people have got a massive case of TDS. Yeah, sure, but I mean, it's not sexual. Well, for some people it probably is. For Jeffrey, that's the, that's the that I'm going to make because literally like if Austin Butner went to went to prison as he deserves I would be over the moon but I'm not getting hard you know well that's because maybe that's his geek that's his kink I'm not going to rag on a guy for his king I mean listen I'm telling you that's what that's what happened the meeting was about Trump getting indicted and it looked like he was turkey God I guarantee it was it might have been I'm going to go I'm going to go I'm Personally, I agree with Robbie on this one. I like this narrative better that Jeffrey Toewan got so excited with him talking about

the person that he had to rub one out. I like it better. I just don't think it's true. And my son got me a new hat, as y'all can see. I'm so proud of it. Yeah. So proud of it. What is the U.S.

Border Patrol, baby. I can't see the last part. It says U.S. Border Patrol. Oh, border patrol. Oh, okay. I'm so proud of it. By the way, we're in a place now where border patrols not even like as bad.

They're merely the S.A. You know, the real SS is ice, you know. Yeah. Don't come here legally. You have no problems. Bye. 330 million people who are here perfectly legally have plenty of problems. But all right.

Let's see here. Okay. John D. Cockfeller, instead of Pink Lady Apples 48, we need a chat bot named Blue Boy Lemon 69 that just sexually harasses Ted, J.T. and Robbie. Hey, don't talk that shit up. Somebody will build that shit. Oh, yeah, I like it at about a minute. Right, hook, act.

Thanks for the five bucks. After hearing your stories from yesterday's show, I'm truly sorry for the tragic life events you experienced, Ted, but I'm proud of the man you have become and appreciate you and get well, JT. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I mean, I think a lot of people have some, I mean, very few people haven't experienced trauma or tragedy.

It's very unusual, I think. I've been a few. But it's not one thing, it's another. It's a disease. It's a loss of a loved one. I mean, I think like John Edwards, man, his fucking beautiful 16-year-old son, I think he was 16, driving on the highway, by all accounts, the police investigated, he's following all traffic laws, not driving erratically, in the speed, driving an appropriate speed.

a fucking micro tornado picked up his car and fucking killed him. It was his one child. I mean, fucking life is mean, you know? Live vigorously. Like, people always, like, my ex used to be very concerned about death. And a lot of people are, where they are, like, they have this palpable fear of it. And like I tell people, death. Yeah, death.

Yeah, death. But my thing is like you could die tomorrow. You could die at any moment. What's the point holding on to it? Like meaning when you accept that it's inevitable, you're free. You're free. Live your life. I mean, like there was no way that somebody could have predicted a micro tornado

is going to pick up a car and kill a 16-year-old. No. No way. And you could think of, okay, well, there were people who were 60 years old, were very ill. And yet the 16 year old died before them. When if you were playing parlor market, you would have put the money on 16 year old living longer.

And you could do this over and over in various spots. I mean, obviously, like if you're looking at percentages, that from a probability standpoint, the 16 year old is going to live longer. But it's probability. It's not an act of God, if that makes sense. Like, live your life. Be free.

I mean, there's, you can't hold on to it. It's, there's unpredictability element associated with it. You try to push the probability in your favor as far as you can go. But beyond that, I mean, you are allowed, yeah, I mean, before we move on from this, I mean, which I think is important, when I had my good friend Scott Stantis with whom my co-ho's TMZ America, he told gave me some amazing advice one time. He was like, I had just, I was about to be fired from a job. and he was like, oh, based on what you're telling me, they're going to totally fire you. But he was like, take some advice.

You're going to want to immediately hit the ground running. I know you and look, find another job. He's like, don't. Like, take two or three weeks and just be fucking sad. And then put it behind you and move on. And it was sound advice because if you don't do that, you don't process. And then it stays with you a long time. But you don't.

So it's like you do want to. honor these experiences, but you don't want to brood. I think we try not to is the best way. I know after when I fell back into the country and I wasn't working. I was into it anything. It was my thing was I may go fucking blind. What do I care about this other stuff? And you know, the reality of it is I did that I was, I want to say on purpose.

Well, you just kind of, because I know that there is just as a natural process. you're going to feel shitty for a while because you're trying to absorb this kind of new norm that you're trying to take in and you just kind of let it flow its course like there was like meaning from my point of view there's nothing else you can do about it you absorb it you process it of sorts you reach your new norm because eventually you start ideally you start paying because it well I would speak for me eventually got to the point where I was like started looking at the news a little bit right and you start feeling some kind of kind of away about something that's happening. And you started looking at something else or something else. And then you find yourself sliding back into your norm of whatever that norm was. And then that's when you hit me up about your program. And I was like, you had me at, hello. Let's do it. Yeah, that was great. That was a great call. He pulled me out of the trunk of that sort. So that was because I had already started moving in that direction. When you call me, it was like, all right, let's do it. Let's make this. It's time. It's, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, that was, that was a great response,

a fantastic response. Um, yeah. So. So. So. So, okay. All right, so more, here we go. Man child, 5,000. We're going to talk, thanks for the dollar. We're going to talk about Trump firing the last remaining members of the election commission. Midterm election, Tom fuckery, seems even more palpable.

Yeah, I saw that. I mean, like, I don't, we have gotten so cynical as a society and as a culture to where, when a president does stuff like this, our response is, hey, that sucks. when the response should be far more vigorous. Like this is a dismantling of governance and basic policy in order to get various things accomplished. Like we have an election commission for reasons. It's not just there for Donald Trump's delight.

In fact, if it's independent, I don't even know why the president has the ability to do that. Like, why do we assume good faith? We don't. Honestly, I think that this is all, just a continuation of Trump's strategy of move fast and break things, right? I guess that was Zuckerberg who said that, but it's Mussolini who kind of made that. I'm sure there's previous historians who have, you know, analysts and political figures who've mentioned that.

But basically the idea is, you know, with Mussolini, is like, do something, do anything, even better to do the wrong thing or a stupid thing or a destructive thing than to do nothing at all. It keeps the public interested in you. and it keeps your opponents off balance. And as you throw more shit at the wall, at a certain point, they can't respond anymore. And we're seeing that with Trump. That was every single day, there's a new fucking thing. I mean, yesterday, Palm Beach Airport, renamed, it's now DJT.

It's now Donald J. Trump International Airport. It's always some fucking thing. I didn't even put that into the mix because it's like there's so much other shit to talk about. And I think that like the opponents, the way you have to handle this, it reminds me of one time when I was a banker and I came home, I was wearing a suit and it was the 80s and New York City was New York City in the 80s. And I got set upon by like a little gang of like 10, basically 15, 16 year old kids who basically swarmed me. And they're like picking at me, grabbing into my pocket, trying to get my money, trying to get my water. trying to get my wallet, one of them ripped off my watch. And it was like basically being attacked by like locusts, right?

And it occurred to me, pick one. Like you can't get them all. There's too many. So you pick one. So I picked one and throttled him. And then I looked around for another one. And then they all hesitated. No one wanted to be next.

And they ran. It's like, pick one. So that's what the Democrats or let's say the left should be doing in a situation like this. Pick one thing or maybe two, but focus on the few things and just keep focusing and ignore the rest. Just keep it going day after day after day. For me, it would be the wars. But like, pick something. And they don't do that.

They're like, oh, my God, this is. they're like ADD, right? They just can't. Oh my God. But now he's doing what? And now there's, you know, but now there's fans. And then now we run. So they don't do anything.

That's they're paralyzed. Yeah, but is that a flaw though, Ted? I mean, because when they take power, the president that Trump is established, they're going to inherit. Yeah. So why would they love it? Yeah. So why would they stop it?

I mean, both sides benefit. So why would you? That's the flaw. That's the flaw in the logic, right, Robbie. Yeah, like both sides. I'm talking about the real left, the real left, like not Democrats. Well, the real left just like to go right has no power. Yeah, that's what I'm going to say.

They can break things. They can protest. I mean, Robbie, stay on. You put it in the chat. Do the protesters trying to protect migrants in violation of the law get a pass and why? Well, first of all, I think that's kind of like a conflation. protesting, you can protest for anything. I mean, they're trying to change the law, right?

They're trying to say, like, these people should be allowed to stay here. You know, they should be able to stay here legally. I mean, you know, protests are often about changing laws. Sure. But, I mean, there's maybe it's because the right traditionally is not very good at protesting. So, no, I've been to plenty of protests, like gun rights rallies, that kind of thing. And to your point, J.T. is that it wasn't a threat. it was a way for us to to express our grievances in this case to our to the state government

in helena it was when the previous governor governor bullock he wanted to have red flag laws instigated here in montana and naturally that's something that the right winger's here in montana well i'm just right wingers will all lefties too is like no you you do not get to violate civil law by confiscating property it does not belong to you and who determined The red flag. Exactly. Exactly. Because you can't charge me for a crime that I haven't committed and you can't take my property without due process. So that's what Governor Bullock is trying to do.

Yeah, but if we don't like the cut of your jib, Robbie, that's good enough. Yeah, no, I get it. So I guess of the question that I have. I'd say any man with a hat like that probably shouldn't have the right to bear arms. Obviously. I mean, I want to get an iced one next time. The problem is that I don't support what ICE is done. I support the mission, might not support the way that they do it.

Yeah. I guess the question that I have, you know, for y'all and for people in the chat is if someone is in the country illegally and they have a deportation order that they should be sent home, then the people take upon themselves to defy law enforcement. Right. Then don't they have, isn't there at that point some, some, some fuck around and find out attitude that that comes with that. I mean, if you're struggling out, though, I mean,

during the Vietnam War, people did not want, you know, people were protesting, for example, the draft. They did not want, even though it was the law of the land that people were subject to the draft, the protesters did not want that. They wanted the law of the land to change. They didn't want these people to be subjected to the draft. They didn't want the war to go on. Well, the war was illegal because there was a violation of the Constitution, just like the Iran war.

So as a right-weger, I would have been out there supporting them. Now, but that's the rub, the rabbi. It wasn't illegal because the country said it wasn't illegal. But the entire edifice of government is going to function as if this is a legal thing. We do all sorts of illegal shit. It doesn't necessarily mean that they considered it legal. Yeah, no, I would say I did it. And I was also say the protests that you guys were doing.

For one, it's gun rights or a gun group. Correct? It was a, it was really a broad spectrum type of thing. So you had lefties, you had no, you had righties. Basically, the civil libertarians, you know, who are out protesting the destruction of due process in the United States. Because that's what a red flag law is. Okay. So basically what it is is what a red flag law is, and here's how to tie this back into Vietnam. Just like Korea, the Constitution is very clear. Only Congress can levy war.

The Constitution doesn't matter. I understand that. But that's, but if it is, but if we're going to lie to ourselves and say that we are a constitutional republic, then the Constitution has to matter. No, no. I guess the only thing I'm pointing out is what's true is irrelevant. What matters is what the narrative and the way the legal structures function behind a particular thing. When the president comes out, the Iran war should be illegal, but it's not. You still have Americans murdering Iranians. The Vietnam War, if you want to make the argument, it was illegal. Okay, yeah, but it stayed in place, and the structures and legalities of it flowed from the fact that it was in place and that the government and everything else went along with it. I'm saying what's technically true is irrelevant to what is colloquially true in the way that they actually process policy.

That's the difference. I'm trying to make it for this. I understand that people make the argument. The war is technically illegal. Fair enough. You will still be prosecuted and you will still be thrown to the war if indeed you were drafted and you tried to get away from the draft. So it didn't matter to the courts that it was, quote, technically illegal.

Listen, I agree with you. As if it did. And from the protest standpoint, look, philosophically, it is a threat. You have a large number of people. together almost like an army, anger at the government over a particular point and showing we have this much support for this particular item. I'm not saying that you guys went out and burned stuff down. I'm saying it's philosophically a threat. It's the public mobilizing for a particular objective, almost like the public was a military. And if that public turned kinetic, all sorts of shit was going to break down. Oh, for sure. And I think that's the real risk that we're going to run into is that eventually one day, I don't know when, I don't know where. is what's going to happen. It's kind of what happened in Ireland, right? With the with the riots,

you know, after that migrant tried to behead that dude further on the street. What happens when the population has had enough, the military of the police comes in and then someone opens fire. What, what then happens? Once that jean is out of the bottle, where does it start? Where does it end? And I guess the part that I don't understand, and I probably never will, is why there's so much energy on no, I'll call it the left. I don't really know what, how you would classify it. So much energy for the population to protect people shouldn't even be here in the first place.

Because they care about human beings. But listen, we're talking about something like home. It is very weird. It's very wild to me that religion ended up on the right. Because if you're talking about the qualities that give a shit about people, you're talking about the left, even to the point of putting their own bodies on the line in order to protect people who, as you point,

out was here illegally, meaning the least of us as human beings. So you may dislike that, but it's just a factor of the left. We care about life. Also, the thing is, Robbie, if you care about you, listen, if you care about life, you wouldn't be pro abortion, I mean, that's a hard thing. Let's let's take, let's take it all. Not at all. I'm sorry. You are out here screaming that we should be killing people left and right. Let's not. You know, despite your godliness. We'll do abortion later, but right now, this immigration thing. I mean, so look, the reason, Robbie, is that these are, the left is always concerned with people who are vulnerable and weak and, and who are powerless, right? That's always like where the left is most concerned. And undocumented workers, illegal aliens,

whatever you want to call them, they fit the bill to a T. They don't, they don't even have the ability to pick up the phone. They're worried about, the fire department if their house is on fire for fear of being of being deported and losing their livelihood and maybe losing having their family broken apart so they're that that's the answer to your question and if you and to put a clear point on it you note that like most on the left nobody's protesting like we want more h1b visas no one on the left is like yay tech bros coming in from india to take american jobs you guys are are awesome. Nobody likes them, cares about them, wants this program to continue. What we're talking

about is people who are, and I agree with you that the, you know, people who this affects the labor market, it hurts American workers, it shouldn't be allowed, the border should be controlled. We've talked about all that. But you can't have it both ways, Ted. If you care about American workers, you close to borders. But the whole point is we, but we can see that the system is exploiting the illegal immigrants and they're exploiting the American worker by trying to pit us against each other. On the left, we see that we can make common cause that we're all being fucked over by the man and that we need to get together and work together because we're all being fucked over. That's why the lefties are sympathetic to these people.

Then maybe it's not for the left to pick aside. Are you going to be pro-American worker or you can be pro-open the borders because you can't have both? You got to pick aside. That's all I'm saying. The hypocrisy, the hypocrisy that's coming in your mouth is outstanding. Only rich people are for open borders, right? Like the Clinton. It's not rich people out there obstructing the police.

No, but the internationalists who have been leaving of both parties, the Clintons and all these people who've been leaving the borders open, that's a rich person thing. This is a class issue. And the left is interested in class analysis. And we look at class analysis. We're like, do we have common cause with H1B visa holders? Not so much.

Do we have it with people, you know, picking fruit? Even if they take a picking fruit job away from you, Robbie? Yeah, we do because we're all working class. We're all shit. And here's what I want to call bullshit. 4,000 Americans, 4,000 Americans are losing their jobs at Microsoft because those workers are being replaced by H1B visa holders. Right.

There is not one single swinging dick on your side of the aisle that's out there saying this is wrong or out there protesting. Who's in Seattle right now? But there's not. Don't tell you should be. Now your people get out there and say, oh my God, you're enforcing the law. No, we got to stop that. Those devilish cops, we got to stop. But, Ron, politics is complicated.

And like, you know, the left is the left doesn't. This is not that complicated. The left doesn't do a good job, okay? And the left has to pick and choose what it's going to. going to protest. And it doesn't do a good job at doing that. For sure, if I would, the emperor of the left, Microsoft would not hear the end of the H-1B visa program. Okay. And neither would any other company do this. There'd be a national boycott. We'd be breaking their windows. We'd be fucking them up. But like the point is that like, I'm not the emperor of the left. And like the left

basically kind of like they catch as catch can. It's a, you know, it's opportunistic. It's what can you get people to show up for a rally for. It's not, I mean, you're right, Robbie. People, I care about those Americans who are losing their jobs every bit as much, if not more, than about those illegal immigrants. I do. I mean, it's fucking wrong. And by the way, we've talked about it. We disagree with it. I mean, look, you're, you're making this argument as if you're talking to people who disagree with you. Right. Because your family are disagree with me. Because what you're saying is that basically, The argument that you're making is about compassion.

We need to be compassionate about the people who've come here from from poor destitute countries with nothing. They came here for a better life. I understand the argument. You're misframing this again, as you continuously do. You asked me, why does the left, meaning the first question that you asked me in a point I made to you is the reason that the left gives a shit about is because it cares about people.

I did say that they were right for, look, If you ask Ted and I about the border, we would probably say that, yes, the border should be controlled. Now, we may quibble about the amount of immigration, but we would agree with you that the border should be controlled. We will probably disagree with you about 4 million people being deported. So I don't think that the agreement is going to change. Forming is way too few. We didn't deport at least 30 million. It is outrageous that they are firing 4,000 people.

Hell, the H1B1 visa program in and of itself is outrageous. It shouldn't exist. So, I mean, it's not like you're, it's not like you're fighting or you're dealing with a Clintonite. Right. Who would agree that the border should be open, even though they may be very dodgy about the way they talk about it. And we'll probably agree with the H-1B1 visa program because it was like, oh, well,

we need qualified people and Americans can't do it, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're not talking to people like that. We agree with you with H-1B-1 stuff. It's a solidarity thing, Robbie. It's sort of like, okay, the capos in the, death camps. They were separated by the Nazis from the general population and basically told to lord it over their fellow Jews and beat them up and like, and they were, you're the boss, you're the capo. But the truth is, the truth is from a Marxist analysis, the capo was in the same, had class

solidarity with his other Jews and should have been able to see that. But the Nazis divided and conquered them. But in the end, the capo ended up in the, as a pile of ashes, just like the people he was beating. It's like the Judenrath, which was the, you know, the Jewish community, the elite Jews in the ghettos who cooperated with and liaised with the Nazi authorities. And the Nazis would say, we want 10,000 Jews, give us a list. And they would, right, like in the Warsaw, the Loth ghetto. In the end, those guys all ended up in Auschwitz. The only difference is they didn't go in cattle cars. They rode in passenger trades with lace curtains on the windows. But they ended up in the same place. they went up in the same chimneys.

They didn't recognize the truth of their class identity, which was in that particular situation, you're not rich, you're not elite, you're Jewish, all Jews are being depressed, you guys all need to stick together. That's what I'm arguing here. It's like the authorities are dividing and conquering us here, and they're putting us against each other.

We shouldn't be pitied. And like we have more in common with these poor fucking people who are just trying to fucking work and they think they're following the rules and then they get fucked around and then like misunderstood but that's the answer to your question

and use as a bargaining chip you'll never make you'll never make an alliance with the right with that attitude well I mean that's kind of the point right that's a whole divide and conquer thing okay I guess I mean if if the left sure the way the left thing like being like not being divided like the

populist left versus the populist right that's also divide and conquer bullshit from the authorities yeah tell you what you can keep your illegal immigrants if i don't have to obey federal gun laws or error tax laws you want to that much then throw me a bone done we'll work we'll work this out right here on the show okay we have we have more we have more comments um thank you very much for all your support here john d cockefeller are you fellers familiar with dr mark perlmutter i wasn't until this morning and I shared it on the Discord Pearl Mudder. MD with first hand experience with the Gaza Genocide would be a killer D program guest. All right.

Maybe, well, if someone knows them, reach out, but otherwise, Robbie, maybe you can reach out or I'll do it. F you so. Have you tried VR porn? You can even be an anime or cartoon, thanks with the $2. I have not. No. I have not. Look, I have a certain quirk.

I don't know if it's, and I don't know if this applies to everybody else. This was something that Robbie said once where he was talking about, oh, the AI Jesus, or something like that. It's the idea of it needs to have a soul. Like, and it doesn't. It's fake. Like, that matters. Like, what's the, like, I don't even know the point of that.

Even though I know some people, it doesn't, that not everybody cares. Not everybody needs that. but I need to know that if I'm doing something, that the response is not fake, the response is real. And you know what? This even got to me about, like, friends. Like, is it enough to believe you have a friend

or do you need to have a friend? Like, let's say you're talking to somebody. You can be in very different states of mind. Like, most recently, there was a woman who, I guess she was trying to capture me I didn't realize this though. Like I didn't realize that this was her state of mind. And this went on for months where to me, okay, we're just sending texts back and forth.

And then when I get back into the States, I realized, oh, she believes that there is a thing here. Okay, well, this is purely in her mind. I've had that, yeah. Yeah. And so like, imagine that situation though with a friend and somebody who you think is a friend. you don't know as a flat fact that you guys are on the same wavelength in regards to the way that you're looking at the particular situation. And your response to that person, if it's not on the same wavelength, that person is going to look at that response is weird because you guys are not on the same wavelength. Like, does it matter? Is it enough to believe that somebody is your friend?

Or do they actually have to be? And is there a difference if you believe it? I don't I mean I'm saying that yes I think if you think yeah I would say like in that case if you think you have the friend even if you're wrong it feels it feels the same it's good enough is there a difference like but is there is a difference because because when the first test you're going to find out you know yeah I guess my point is this truth matter is this truth matter is it enough for persons? to die. It doesn't matter as long as you, until you find it out. I want to believe. Ever learn the truth

it does not matter. Oh, I don't want to believe that. Like, I want to believe that truth matters and matters in a cosmic sense. Oh, well, like, I'll give you that word. I thought you meant psychologically.

Well, it, yeah, I don't know. That's a tough point, didn't me? That's a tough one. No, but my point is, there is no, there's nothing going on in the mind of the AI person. Whereas we, I care about what's going on in the other person's

mind. Yeah, no, I mean, and I think for sex, that's, or porn or whatever, that's important for sure. All right, this one's for you. We have a lot more comments to get to, and a couple stories. Paral illegal, thanks for the $10. Obviously, this is not for me. What is your favorite chess opening? It depends on which side. If I'm playing on the black, yeah, it depends on the side because like many military matters you don't always get choice. People drag you into certain areas. I play the Kings Indian attack a lot. I like to play the Ruiz Lopez if I get the opportunity to do so. That's probably my favorite E4. On Queens opening, it's going to be the king's Indian defense. I know this sounds very racist, but it's just the name of the opening.

Either Kings Indian Defense, Ria Lopez, or the Kings Indian attack. I brought my favorite. Okay, let's keep going. Waterways, thanks for the $20. Have a great weekend and thank you for the show, Ted, Jamar, and Robbie. Thank you also for we couldn't do it without you. Sam Palmasano, thanks for the $20 also. California, Gavin Newsom just got a new bill for tax legislation to change the definition of personal tangible property to include intangible software applications and code.

So now you will have to pay sales and use tax on software. What? Well, that's not that crazy. I mean, so if you were to, for example, okay, so. Yeah, I need an example. So in other words, back in the day, if you got a DVD for Adobe Photoshop and you, and you uploaded that. You had to pay sales and use tax if you bought it in California.

Okay. Now, if you download it from the internet, but I'm pretty sure Adobe is a California-based company, you would have to pay sales and use tax on that download. So I have to pay tax on a download? Yeah. But I didn't have to pay tax on a download before. Usually, at the tax. You wouldn't have to pay, you had to pay, no, you would not have had to pay for it.

Yeah. I don't remember ever paying for a tax on a download for a. an app or anything like that? For some reason, I feel like I did. It was a flat fee. Remembering it. Yeah, if the app is five bucks, the app is five bucks, it's not five bucks plus eight and a quarter percent.

Okay. So basically you have to pay sales tax. Yeah, on intangible, like IP. So, like, for example, if I download an audio album or an audiobook. Yeah. I got a point I have to pay tax on

that book. Yeah. Or I, Or I guess potentially if you downloaded a movie, an MP4. I understand why California is doing. They're trying to increase revenue. I get it. Yeah, they're broke. And not to mention, that's a major source of revenue since they have so much tech. Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. It's interesting. I mean, it's, you know, Nick Riviera, the Hindu CEO of Microsoft, is offshoring these American jobs to India. That certainly is Sam Palmasano. Thanks for the $10. And by the way, wait, wait, before we pass that, yeah, he's not wrong for that.

He's doing his job. What's wrong is the laws allow him to do that. Correct. Like, meaning we can't, we can't entirely bitch at CEOs when those CEOs are told, hey, go maximize your profit. Yeah, they have literally you are told when you become a CEO that you have a fiduciary responsibility

to the shareholders, their short-term quarterly profits, right? Yes. And like if you violate that, like CEOs who have decided, like, oh, I want to do the right thing, I want to pay my workers better, whatever, they've been sued by their shareholders for not maintaining their Friday share responsibility. Corporations are machines that are set to maximize their profit. And the CEO doesn't, it's the system.

The CEO does not have that much latitude. I mean, I guess my thing is we have a capitalistic system. We organize the system around how do you maximize profit? And what we, I think a lot of people mistake is that as if they're supposed to do some benefit for the workers. If he could get away with it, he wouldn't hire workers. Like, he doesn't give a shit about workers. That's not his job. Workers are just a byproduct.

of him needing to make profit. There's a difference in those things. It's one thing if you have a society that says, hey, we want to make sure people are okay. Okay, that's society that needs to be organized around that. That is not our society. So when he's sending jobs like India or China or something like that, he's thinking, I can pay this work at three bucks as opposed to 20 or 30 in the United States. Look at me making $27. He might go home to his wife and say, this sickens me that I have to do this. He might. He might not. Some of them do, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying, like, they are, they are a cog in the wheel without much latitude. If you want to change it, you have to change the bricks of the way we organize this country.

No, that's profound, and we do have to sort of emphasize that repeatedly. Sam Paul Massano, a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Thanks for the $10. Agreed. P.W. Walker, Robbie needs to have it pointed out that a number, of H-1B jobs are only going to happen because they want to get cheap labor. They're not just jobs that will be filled if they had to pay full rate.

But that's circular logic, right? Like, you're just deciding not to pay full rate. You know, I mean, if you can't afford to pay full rate, then you can't afford to hire someone. Mr. A. Lee, Ted is a Christian. I mean, I think that's true. I think I'm more Christian than most people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. you know um let's see an objective reality that's what matters twenty dollars thanks to san palmasano

y'all ever plan on doing an afternoon noon or night stream for any more than an hour need to see the deprogram gaming stream also jemarle are you hikaru am i am where h i k a r u hikaru oh what is that anime i don't know what the fuck that is um I don't know what it is. Both kings and queens, Indian attack defense is what he does mostly. I'm looking up Hikaru here.

We actually did the game thing yesterday. We played SIF six. We missed you. Oh, he's a chess master. Oh, Hagaru. Right. He is extremely strong. He is exceptionally strong, especially with Blitz.

He's probably one of the best blitz players on the planet. Yeah, he's very good. Okay, so I want to Nakamura, Nakamura, I'm not mistaken. Ray C-20, thanks for the $5. Ted, what were the wildest punk shows you attended? I saw, well, okay, wildest doesn't necessarily mean best.

Okay, without a doubt, the clash opening for the Who was wild and not in a good way. In 1982, Shea Stadium, New York City. the problem was it was oversold and so it was jam-packed the crowd control was terrifying people were like getting

trampled and stuff the clash were hated the crowd was a who crowd and they were all high on they were all snorting mounds of cocaine they were hated the clash the clash oh yeah they so the who fans hated the clash

I mean obviously the who invited the clash because they viewed the clash as like their heirs, right? But the clash, the Who was the headliner? The clash was the, you know, even though they were at the peak of their powers, this was during the Combat Rock tour.

You know, but the point is they were throwing shit at the clash. The clash were, they vibed off the hatred of the crowd and they just charged full on into it, which just riled them up more and they were throwing shit at them. It was embarrassing, though, because I love who. You said they charged at him.

You're saying they left the stage. Or you're saying the music? No, they like basically just kept playing through it and like feeding off the anger of the audience. Kind of the way Iggy Pop, like Iggy likes to go on and insult the crowd, like ethnic slurs. And then like people start throwing shit and it like gets him riled up. He loves it. That's insane. Can you imagine having to do some shit like that?

Like you're doing a show and people are like screaming and yelling and throwing shit? It's terrifying. And then and you've got like maybe two or three chubes. Bouncers trying to protect you from like, you know, 20,000 riled up psychopaths. And then there was, and then Dead Kennedys at opening up at the Beacon Theater on the Upper West Side of Manhattan on New Year's Eve, they were supposed to play Times Square. Somehow they had like finagled a permit. But then someone in City Hall found out like the Dead Kennedys were going to play Times Square.

It was like, no. So they arranged this show at the end. it was apocalyptic. Basically, the lights all went down, and we hear them start to play. Jellobiapra, you can hear him, and he's like, what better way to toast the future? It's New Year's Eve, 1984. But by turning it, pitch, black, and all the lights,

including the exit lights, go out. He's playing. The lights come on, and there's people who've climbed the stack of amps that's like 10 or 15 high. They're leaping jumping off. into the audience headfirst, it's like 50 feet, you know? I mean, they're going to, and it's just this roiling, like, crowd of, you know, most 99% dudes.

And it was just insane. Like the, and at the end of the, of this crazy show, Biafra said, oh, we hear you guys got charged $10. It's like, we told, we had negotiated $5. Collect $5 on the way out or burn this place down. What? So there were Exit with a stack of fives handing them to people as we all walked out.

He said if you don't burn this place, man, that is, they can never get away with some shit like that today. No. In 1984, man, it was awesome. Those are better days. They were better days, it's true. That's so badass, though. Like, if you think about it, like when you're recounting this memory, do you recount this badass? you recount this as badass, but do you recount this as, oh my God, this was the worst thing in the world?

No, I remember I thought it was badass as shit. Sam Palmasano, thanks for the $50. Thank you so much. A great way to end the week. I was incredibly sad to see John leave so abruptly. However, Jamarle has been a fantastic addition to the show. I agree. And I really appreciate his commentary. Keep doing a great job, y'all. Oh, thank you, man. I appreciate that. That means me great. Sam's 100% right. Okay, so one last thing to talk about. Is Mitch McConnell alive? What do you think?

I mean, they're sorry. Michael was alive, even when he was alive. There's some Republican dude who claimed to have talked to him who was on TV the other yesterday. And he was asked like, and he was literally confronted. If Mitch McConnell is alive, call him now. And the guy's like, he totally changed the subject. Define it alive. I mean, if you're kept alive on life support, but your brain dead, are you alive?

Are you alive? Oh, that's an interesting question. That's an interesting question. If your brain dead, you're still alive. No, you're done. I mean, there's nothing there. Your meat suit is, you're kept alive artificially with machines. There's nothing there.

He's obviously like, you know. The turtle is done. I know. He is roasting in Hill as we speak right now. With a living. I think we're in agreement on that. Yeah. I mean, that's a fascinating question.

Because that question boils down to is a person in a emergent property out of the mechanisms of matter, which in and of itself is a fascinating thing, right? And you have like, how do these rocks become breathing and thinking and having a world and experiencing? I mean, it's, no, it's great. We're able to agree that Mitch McConnell is roasting a hill on the devil's and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and. And on an in on agreement. So we disagree vehemently on immigration. Twisting out the devil. We fully celebrate the demise of the turtle.

Yes. Yes. I think, look, from my point of view, there's something that goes beyond matter. And that, like, whether you call it spirit, so I don't know what it is, but I do think there's more to reality than just physical experience. So, yeah, whatever his body is doing, he is roasting at hell. It's got to be. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Thanks, thanks everyone for tuning in. Stay tuned. TMI coming up right now. I'm running a little late. And DMZ coming up at 11 a.m. with Scott Stantis. Alexandra Bowman is our guest. Hope you'll join us for that. Have a great weekend, J.T. And I'll see you one more.

9 a.m. Okay. Bye-bye. Okay.