DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Hamas Agrees to Disarm, Trump Claims | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

Editorial cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM Eastern time. Today we discuss: • Trump’s announcement of a Gaza deal, in which Hamas disarms and hands over its weapons to a Board of Peace first, raises unanswered questions. Neither Hamas nor Israel has issued an official statement acknowledging the deal, makes one wonder if this is real, or Trump dissembling? • Hackers attack more than 30 community water systems across Minnesota, forcing some utilities to switch to manual operations. Investigators are blaming Iran. • Colin Gray, whose son killed four people at a Georgia high school in 2024 with a gun Gray bought him, gets sentenced to 15 years in prison. The elder Gray had given his son an AR-15-style rifle and left it in the boy’s bedroom even though the teenager had psychological problems and an obsession with school shootings. • 49,000 migrants cross into Spain's North African colony of Ceuta from Morocco in 24 hours via land and sea. 18 have died. Spain's Supreme Court ruled this month that migrants stopped at sea while trying to reach Ceuta or Melilla, another Spanish exclave, cannot be summarily returned to Morocco. MERCH STORE: https://www.deprogram.live https://x.com/tedrall https://x.com/JamarlThomas LIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShow SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8Zu APPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

Oh, my God. Again. Good morning you are watching and we're listening to. You might be better off listening to D-Program with Ted Raul and Jamarle Thomas. It is currently Friday, July 31st, 2026. I think the spacetime continuum might be getting messed up right now. That's a whole Rumble premium topic that we could do. Anyway, thanks for joining us. As always, really appreciate your support and just you being here. Today, lots of talk about as we head into the weekend. We've got obviously a blockbuster, possibly true, I don't know, I'm pretty skeptical, announcement that apparently peace is at hand. The Hamas supposedly is going to disarm, and then after they disarm entirely, then the Israelis are going to withdraw from Gaza. I don't know. I mean, I don't smoke weed, but I think someone in the White House smokes a lot of weed. I don't know what's going on. Hackers are Iranian hackers are suspected of hacking into, of all things, the Minnesota water system. The dude whose kid in Georgia was responsible for a school shooting with a gun that he left in his room has just been sent to prison for 15 years. And for almost 50,000, I bet by this point it probably is 50,000 migrants have surged into this weird little Spanish enclave called, I think I'm probably going to miss Morales.

Is it Sueta or Kueta? But anyway, from Morocco, it's a little bit of imperial Spain that remains in Morocco. And anyway, after the Spanish Supreme Court ruled that the Spanish can't kick out migrants without summarily without due process, because Spain, unlike the United States is a real country, these migrants from Africa or via transiting through via Africa, surged in and it's created a massive crisis over there. So, as always, if you have questions, please like, follow and share the show. Please, if you have questions in the live hour, which is 9 to 10 a.m. Eastern time,

Please pipe them in. Producer Robbie West will put them up and we'll answer them. We really appreciate your paid chats especially, but because we need money because we live under capitalism. And I'm trying to think what else. We might even have our own coffee sponsor soon. So we'll keep you posted on that. That'll be great.

Yeah, yeah, Robbie, come in and talk to us about that a little bit. Yeah, so basically what is going on, Jeff Dornick, friend of the show. he is the CEO of Pickax, and I was talking about the woes that I had because of my 1775 coffee addiction, and now I can no longer get it because it's just... And so... That's a side tale of woe. It is.

So he has a coffee he calls supermassive black coffee, which I like the name. It has that really nice, galactic theme to it. And he is going to send us some of that coffee, and we are going to sample it. And if we like the coffee, then he will... will allow us then to sell it here on the show as an affiliate. Which would be awesome. And, of course, we all love coffee, so we're not going to recommend any shit coffees. If we find out this coffee sucks, we'll say so.

It probably doesn't suck. I have not been to bed yet. I've been coding all night. Better living through coffee. Yep. You live like a 20-year-old. There's something weird about that. All right.

I'm just retarded. That's what I'm. just said. Okay. Anyway, so, sorry I was laughing when we first came on because we were having some strange split-screen moments with Rumble Studio, but it seems to be a bang. Anyway, I guess we have to go into Hamas right away, right? I mean, what else are we going to do first?

Yeah, I don't believe, I mean, I don't doubt that Hamas may make a deal, but I don't buy the disarmament stuff. And I damn sure I don't buy Israel pulling out. I mean, people need to remember, this is, you know, this is chicken and egg stuff. This is very straightforward going to the direction of which one this is. Let's take Lebanon, for example. Lebanon existed, or let's say Hezbollah existed in order to push out the Israelis. It wasn't like, you know, Hezbollah just came out of nowhere and Israelis were fighting Hezbollah.

It was the other way around. They were doing so as a way of pushing out the Israelis from southern Lebanon. And I guess I'm saying Hamas is something very similar. This has to do with the occupation and the response to the occupation, not the other way around. And so my point is saying that is Hamas giving up their weapons. It doesn't mean that Israel is going to leave, nor does it mean that Israel is going to stop the attacks. I mean, they just bomb tents at night yesterday. So I don't buy this premise that Hamas is going to make this kind of deal to disarm.

Hamas knows those that's better than I do. They may make a deal, and they may make a deal. make some kind of deal in order to try to get a better outcome for the area. But the belief that Israel is going to withdraw, I don't buy it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I also don't believe that Hamas, why, I mean, nothing that they've done so far has been really, really dumb. And I can't think of anything really, like, dumber than, you know, than to unilaterally disarm, while the hostile, aggressive invasion force of Israel, you know, continues to constrain and control 70% of this already densely populated area. And they're running around with munitions and tanks and,

you know, doing God knows what and bombing as they please. And you're going to disarm. And then once you're completely disarmed, then you're going to, and you're turning over your weapons to, like, Trump's Board of Peace, which is totally in bed with the, with the Israel. Israelis, then the Israelis out of the goodness of their cold little hearts are going to pull out and peace will rain and doves will fly around. I mean, none of that's true. I mean, that's ridiculous. Like, no one would agree to this. You know, I mean, Hamas is not in as good a position as Iran is right now, to be sure. But still, I mean, it's not, I would not say that they've lost either. And, you know, The guns are the only thing they have going for them.

I mean, this deal, I mean, a lot of things jumped out of me is just thinking this is ridiculous. But the stupidest thing was the cops, the Hamas police would be giving up their sidearms. Okay, I've never heard of a transition of power where that happened. Even when there was debathification under Brenner in Iraq, They didn't strip the sidearms away from the local police as opposed to the national army. I mean, you know, you've got to have law and order is the most important thing.

Even when Biden withdrew from Kabul, you know, Biden's troops negotiated with the Taliban to provide law and order on the streets during the U.S. withdrawal and dealt with local Taliban police. The police are going to, if you're talking about taking away the guns from the police, I'm like, I don't know what this deal is, but it's not like, a deal that could work or might work or it is even real. I mean, it's, this is like, this has got to be like bullshit, right? I mean, 99.9% chance has got to be bullshit. Well, it depends on, well, I think the deal is bullshit, yes. But I think Hamas is open. I mean, because over and over again, we kept coming out with these proclamations in the West about what

Hamas is deciding to do, what Iran is deciding to do, what Lebanon is deciding to do. Most of these things were never true. And even in the context of deals that might have been quote, deals, they were never honored. Like, think of the number of deals that have been made with, quote, Hamas or with Lebanon. Have any of those deals been honored? Yeah. And, you know, and they've always been broken primarily by the Israelis. By the Israelis, yeah.

I mean, so, I mean, you know, it's like, fool me once, shame one me or shame when you. 74 times. Yeah, fool me 74 times. Just shame on me. Yeah, I don't buy it until it happens. No, I mean, yeah, no, this is, I mean, of all the Trumpian announcements, like this is a deal. And by the way, neither side has announced that this is true, right? Like, the Israelis, neither Hamas nor the Israelis have confirmed it and said, yeah, there's a deal.

I mean, I don't doubt Hamas is willing to make a deal. They've been trying to make a deal from day one. I mean, as you point out, they're in a weaker position. They're getting murdered in mass. Women and children are being slaughtered. Even if you're Hamas, that's kind of, well, it's not even if you're Hamas. Hamas is just the people who live there. I mean, that is difficult, I would imagine, to accept.

Like, meaning in the West, they have this idea that people who get killed in the Middle East was somehow it doesn't matter to the people in the Middle East. Nothing can be more insane. They don't care about their own lives because they're going to get their 49 virgins or whatever. Yeah, what a derange point of view to have? It's like, well, they don't really care about their lives.

So if we kill Hungary. That's what we always say about our enemies, right? That's World War II. We say that about the Japanese. They don't care about their own lives. By the way, we still say about the Russians now, and we even say it about the Chinese. Yeah. Like we're just like, well, yeah, they don't really care about their people.

They don't care about their populations. It's like, so why would then they raise 800,000 out of poverty if they didn't necessarily care about their people? And when you talk to the public itself, the public has a large buy-in to the government because the government is effective. It's competent in a way that this government is not, right? So I don't know. All human beings are the same. I mean, we're all wired the same way. I mean, what's more basic than wanting to stay alive?

Right. Nothing. I mean, all animals want to stay alive. I mean, we all care about that. And I hear mother whale over there killed being murdered, gets that across that much more so. When you hear the population screaming and crying and everything else, they're doing what our parents would do if one of us were killed.

So yeah, I find that stuff to be racist and hateful and derange. But I'm very skeptical of this. Again, it's not that Hamas is going to make a deal. They are. And from my understanding, what Hamas was effectively saying was, look, if there's a leadership that's chosen, then we're willing to deal with that. But disarming, I don't know if I buy the disarmament thing.

In fact, I know I don't buy it. Not just I don't think I don't buy it. I am suddenly, I'm not hearing anything. So Robbie, maybe he can pipe in here while I troubleshoot. Oh, he can't hear me. Yeah, I believe it when it happens. I believe it when it happens. Up to this point.

none of it has ever been real. I mean, even when they are talking about, um, the stuff in Lebanon, like Israel has made a deal with Lebanon. I think when you look at the deal, the deal is like effectively southern Lebanon goes to Israel. It's like, what the hell is this? How do you think this was going to fly it, right? Well, Hamas won the war. Why were they surrender after winning? Well, well, did they win the war? Explain what you mean by they won the war. Yeah, that's a big statement. It's not Iran. Iran's clear. won the war. Okay, so here's what I mean about Hamas won the war. So with Abraham the Abraham Accords that were going on, the entire concept of a Palestinian state was abandoned,

written off by the Arab world at large. Hamas then went across the border, punched Israel the nose, knowing exactly what was going to happen. They were counting on an Israeli overreaction that would then deliver worldwide sympathy to the plight of the Palestinian people, the fact that their land is being stolen, the fact that they are being genocided in a slow burn genocide for decades. Hamas did what it did. They knew it going to be taking their licks. They knew that Israel is going to overreact and we are where we are right now.

We would not be having this conversation about a Palestinian state or about what's going on the West Bank or what's going on in Gaza. Hamas has not done that. They won a political victory counting on the bloodthirsty nature of the Zionist regime. All of this is true. That is a political victory. I made this exact argument early on in the war when it first happened. And this is a very difficult argument to make. Because what the argument hedges upon is blood. Yeah. What we're wagering is blood. Correct. I mean, we are sacrificing hundreds of thousands for this political outcome.

Right. That we wouldn't necessarily be able to get without the blood that's going to be shed for that political. Hamas said their leadership has said that. So they've been very clear about it from day. You said it openly. That's a hell of a thing, right? And to the point, if you're going to sacrifice, if 100,000 people are going to die,

is there any real difference if they're starved to death slowly, by sanctions and strangulation as opposed to being taken out by 2,000 pallon in the market either way they're going to die the end result is the same one way one way gets it gets news stories the other way doesn't Hamas needed a game changer and they got one and it worked in their favor and that's i'm saying that these realies are too fucking stupid pig-headed or they just or they're lying and they know the truth but they're pretending like you know they've won and uh and anyway you know they they're Hamas fucked up and you know they they didn't

know what they were going to get. That's none of that is true. And it's really exactly they think that they think that the demise of public opinion in their favor isn't going to make any difference. That's not true either. It's just going to, you know, it might take a little longer than I might hope, but it's, but it's going to have, it is happening right now. We're watching it. Yeah. Well, from their point of view, they're occupying 70% of Gaza and they're going to expand further into it. They've occupied larger into the West Bank. By the way, I agree in principle with the argument that both you are making. But from the Israeli point of view, they're occupying.

Militarily, Hamas is in a more, is in a less clearly victorious position than. Right. They're worse off. I mean, the people are huddled in tents full of rats that are full of water. And Hamas is hiding in their tunnels. And yeah, they're hiding in their tunnels according to the Israelis. But you also have the situation of expanding in the West Bank of the killings that are taking place from West Bank with the expansion.

the expansion in the Syria, the expansion in the Lebanon, meaning from the Israeli position, if you're looking at it, you may think to yourself, hey, we're moving on multiple fronts, but that's very fragile. Well, yes, there was the battle of the bulge at the end of World War II was the Nazis making an advance too, but it was a last final expanse.

Gambit, right? Well, at the end of the day, Hamas is banking on the Arab man on the street to finally stand. step up until his government stop being a whore. Yes. And defend our brothers and our sisters over here. Now, it's, I want to make a JT argument.

I mean, I think for Hamas, time is definitely on their side. Every day takes, saps, Israel's popular support around the world. They should be in no rush to make a deal. Well, here's. Hamas. I mean, I think that Iran and the other resistance forces, are going to become that much more, you know, like meaning the fact that Iran is now hitting all of these bases in the Middle East.

Okay, that's a new norm. Egypt. That wasn't happening before. 14 countries are currently involved in this conflict. And yeah, some of them are, you know, the size of Manhattan, but still 14 countries. Yeah, I've been dragged in. And as Robbie pointed out, and beforehand, you weren't getting any of that. I mean, you were getting an Abraham Accords, which was this kind of Jewish supremacy thing

in the Middle East. Whereas now, this is a different model. And the thing is, a lot of people think about warfare in terms of who controls the ground at the end of a battle. That's not the point of a war. No. War is a continuation of politics by other means. It is a means to an end. And sometimes you've got to pay a blood tax.

And everybody seems to think they still make the fallacy of thinking that like death counts make the difference, right? Like if we kill more of you. If that were true, man, if that were true, we'd be sitting in Vietnam right now. Yes. If that were true, we'd be sitting in Afghanistan, and Iraq and Somalia, and all these other places that kicked our asses. And the Nazis would have won the war against the Soviets. True. That didn't, you know, that didn't happen.

Look, have any of you ever contemplated the idea that Israel did this on purpose, like in the provocation? Like, meaning they knew Egyptian intelligence had given the Israeli government the idea that Hamas is going to have a raid. The Nanyahu government did nothing. They knew for a year. I mean, the Mossad knew because, I mean, there were social media feeds showing Hamas training for it with the paragliders and all that. And Israelis did shit about it. And don't forget, it took nine and a half fucking hours for the IDF to respond to the kibbutzum. Right. I mean, so if you're a Zionist and you're watching us right now, you shouldn't believe me because it's such an outlandish comment that you should go and Google it yourself and just see, is Ted Raul full of shit about this?

But it's true. The New York Times reported it, nine and a half hours. Okay, I've been to Israel. You can drive the long way from one end of the country to the other in about four hours without driving the way I do. I mean, it's like really. Yeah. I'm sorry. The IDF deliberately did not respond to the attack. And they had a smart fence. They knew it was breached the second it happened, right? And attacking their own people. That's true too. Many of the people that were. The Samson directive.

By the IDF. And so they weren't the, you know, Hamas eating babies. They weren't these rapes. They were systematic and everything else. None of that stuff was true. I mean, even in New York Times. at great pains, I'm reported that that wasn't true. And I'm using the New York Times.

Babes in the microwave, yeah. Yeah, babies in microwave. All this stuff is nonsense. But the point of making is you can also make the argument that the Israeli government knew and used it as a provocation to do what they wanted to do anyway. I mean, you can make the case that Amos did this with this kind of political thing of thinking that the revolution was going to take

place. But you can also look at it from the other side. Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened. Yeah. that Israelis knew and just let it happen with the idea of this is their 9-11 moment. Or their Reichstag fire or whatever you want to say, yeah. I think the what it was, and I could be wrong. I'm actually do think this is what happened.

And I think there's enough evidence out there from the social media posts, a lot of their people in the Knesset and even Metanyahu himself, the bloodthirsty prick, talking about, well, if the Palestinians are so miserable here in Gaza, they could always just leave. It would be refugees in Europe, maybe go to America, and then maybe they'd be able to come back at a later time. They would never be allowed to come home. They would never be allowed to go home.

We know that because there's never been a right to return granted since 1848. No, of course not. And so the Palestinians, they just hunkled down. And they're like, I was born here. I will die here. I am not going to leave. And the Israelis thought they could make life so miserable that they would just rush the,

Egyptian border or the Red Cross who come in and that these two million people will get airlifted to Germany. Nuts to Europe, nuts to everything else is going on there. We want to get these people out and the Palestinians to their credit and to show the heroism of their people and their race,

said, fuck you, I'm not leaving. Wars go on a long time. They're protracted when both adversaries believe they have an advantage. And that's what's happened here. I mean, it's like Russia, Ukraine. Both sides think they have an advantage. So it's gone on a while.

But that's your question. That's your question. That's why I said that, that's why I said Hamas won the war. Israel said Hamas must be destroyed. Hamas still exists. The Palestinian people are still there. We are still having this conversation. By that definition, Hamas has won the war. Israel has suffered a major defeat. I agree with you. I mean, look, I think that, because I think what you have to weigh, right, the Israelis, you know, they covet, they need to, they wanted, And they coveted land. And they also obviously know that they need public approval from the international community and especially the United States. Right.

So their gamble was we can do a big land grab and not hurt our international approval too much, not so much that it's fatal. That was their mistake, I think. You think they felt that? I mean, like, okay, well, two months. They had reason to think that. I think I disagree with you on both points. Go ahead. On the first point, the wars, when both sides believe they have the advantage, not necessarily.

I mean, you could have a losing side. Ukraine, I don't believe for a moment Ukraine thinks it's winning. I just think Ukraine is not. I think they do think that they're doing, they're exceeding, you know, they're beating the point spread. They're exceeding expectations. And they have a close relationship with the Europeans and the U.S. And they're, you know, they're international players instead of being like a, you know, know, literally, what does Ukraine mean in Russian, like hinterlands?

Yeah, the borderlands. Yeah, borderlands. Yeah. I mean, look, I think from their point of view, they think that I don't think they're in control of their own affairs. I think most countries, if they didn't have the blank check from Europe or from the United States, would have easily have gone into negotiations up to this point, meaning it's the blank check. It's the, the Germany thing, again, where Germany gives, Germany gives, oh, Jesus Christ, Germany gives Austria, Hungary and Empire, basically, hey, you have a blank check for months. And I know that's very dodgy historically, but whatever.

You get the blank check. And if you think of all of the wars that these countries are involved in, if America wasn't given the blank check, they wouldn't do it. Israel wouldn't behave in the way that Israel behaves if it wasn't for the United States backing it, just like Ukraine. I guess my point is Ukraine, I don't believe for a moment that Ukraine believes it's winning the war. I think Ukraine knows that it's losing territory, hand over fists,

as it gets to its main battle line and Kramatores. Ladiance. I think they know that, which is why they're blowing up warehouses as opposed to actually trying to fight on the front lines. I don't think they think that. I think they're just not in control of their own affairs. But from the other point in regards to Gaza, I agree with both of you that if you can't accomplish a military objective, you lose the war. And Israel wanted to get rid of the Palestinians. And they did not. Hamas still exists. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly Right. So, I mean, okay, before we move on, J.T., what do you think the motivation was on the part of the Donald to claim going into the weekend? Big deal, best deal ever, pieces it had. The Nobel Committee, call me. Operators are standing by. He's still trying to cast this. Look, I think Trump is drowning. I think he's a drowning man. That's what I think. I think he's a drowning man. That's what I think. From the standpoint of what he's doing internationally and from the standpoint of what that means on him domestically.

and any headline that makes him look as if he's getting something accomplished, I think he's going to relish him, whether it's true or not. I mean, think of how many times he kept claiming there's a deal with the Iranians that's around the corner. And like he did it so often. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it becomes ridiculous at a certain point.

And I wonder how much Americans are even invested into it. Like it happens so often. Like it's like the boy who cried wolf. And at a certain point, I don't know how many times people pay attention to the fact. that you're crying. Woof. Totally, totally. It's just a little housekeeping and then we'll move on to some comments.

DMZ America podcast is at its new time Fridays today, 11 a.m. We'll be talking about a cartoonist who's suing big tech over them scraping his work in order to create memes. That'll be kind of interesting. So it's little guy versus little little guy versus big tech and TMI coming up at 10. Okay, let's do some comments here. Wait, wait, real quick, does that also mean stories? Like, let's say the courts agree with them and say, well, wait a minute, big tech can't just

screen grab your artwork and use that artwork for their whatever they're using it for, either for memes or for whatever else. Yeah. Would that also apply to articles? And would that also apply to other people's content? I mean, I would think. I think it's going to be a heavy lift legally to because, you know, these companies are protected by Section 230.

But, yeah, I mean, I think it's. would have massive implications if it were successful. I mean, that's interesting. Yeah. Does it affect us? It's like I guess what I'm getting to. Probably. Like it's covering stories. Probably. Oh, that would suck. If CNN can turn that that can't work that way though. If CNN can't turn around and say, well, we don't want you to cover the story that we just covered. Well, you can cover the story. You just can't like you have to you have to give citations like, you know, I mean, that's that's standard journalistic practice. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, we don't really do. this but like for example if you're like oh ted cruz told the los angeles times you're

really supposed to say told the los angeles time but these days people just say ted cruz said and right it's not really a lot of basic journalistic standards have rotted away but all right uh ryan newton 2888 you know robbie's dying to talk about spain and so am i will talk about we will get to that shortly yeah the spain thing is interesting shall we talk about spain calling it like a false flag. Oh, really? I haven't heard that. So some people have made the argument, Professor Morandi made the argument that the reason that this is happening is because Spain was so against Israel and that the Israeli government that is working in coordination with the Moroccan government effectively release all of these migrants as a way to damage Spain. Italy turns around and effectively

says we're considering changing the EU rule set associated with Spain because of the migrants, because they don't want the migrants coming in Italy, like meaning it's a mess. Yeah. But I don't know if Morandi is right on this. I don't know either. I mean, but we see a truck pull up and a boatload of people fall out the truck. And you're like, what the fuck is that?

I mean, it's been, yeah. I mean, so this is a, yeah, there's two little little, like walled cities, right? That are in Morocco, but still belong to Spain right, right, right along the coast. And, you know, it's like they're touristy. They're 15th century cities. So tourists do come. And so they're in the EU, even though they're in Africa.

So it's weird. But anyway, the point is that these guys are surging in. I think it's, honestly, I don't think it's a false flag. I think that people heard about the Spanish Supreme Court decision that said, you know, if you do this, you won't be kicked out. And this has been a, you know, people, African. migrants have tried to make it in there for, you know, for years. It's not like a new phenomenon. So I think here is just the fact that's like, hey, let's bum rush, right? We can, we all go at once.

They can't stop us. I mean, that's not uncommon. We've seen that at the U.S. Mexico border in Southern California. Oh, you could stop them. Spain is a real country with a real military. Spain could stop them. It's an invasion. Okay. I'm telling, I'm saying what the, what the, what the migrants were telling each other. No, I understand that. But no, they can say, they say what they want, But Spain, though, is a real country. I mean, they could stop them. That's true. Yeah.

I'm curious, why does Spanish military didn't give off? I mean, even if you have a court decision, doesn't necessarily mean that you can have people just roll up in trucks. Right. Like, that was like watching that as wow. I don't know if people have seen the videos, but the videos of people screaming out of trucks into Spain. It's just wild to watch.

This was obviously a coordinated effort. Yeah. You know, I mean. Intentional. Yeah, and of course, obviously, I wonder about the Moroccan government. I mean, you know, the kingdom of Morocco isn't exactly a bastion of liberal democracy, right? So, I mean, it's like they have controls. I've been to Morocco.

It's a, you know, they let it happen. That's the point. They let it happen. They seem to be involved in making it happen. That just let it happen. Yeah, well, Mexico does the same thing here. I mean, Mexico will let migrants, you know, from the southern border, border trains and just give them free transport. up to Texas. I mean, it's the same thing. It's the same playbook. It's, it happens. And to the point

about, about Professor Morandi, Israel has used mass migration as a weapon before. It's in their interest to do so. The more people they can push out, that they can push through the West, because a lot of Israelis look at Europe and the United States extension as an expansion of Rome. Like, actually, look at us as actual enemies in the Talmud. And so how do you, how do you break the power of Rome. How did it happen before? Migration. I mean, look, and the Egyptians know what the Israelis, to your point, are up to, which is why they built those giant berms to try to keep the, I mean, I love the talking point, by the way, by Zionists, it's online, where they say, oh, if the Egyptians care so much about their Palestinian brethren, why do they build that big

fortification? It's like, because they're trying not to enable Israel's genocide, which part of the genocide is, genocide is not just about killing people. It's about remission. It's about remission. moving them from their homeland. Which is what they wanted, which was the policy. I mean, if you remember, Joe Biden was back in this policy. If you remember, if you remember, Donald Trump and Joe Biden had ultimately the same policy of basically getting rid of Palestinians out of the territory. The Biden administration was every bit as much in on that particular policy, even though

they were more quiet about it as the Trump administration was, which is, you know, again, It's a genocidal policy that the U.S. was effectively backing. Hey, we need to get rid of these Palestinians. Maybe we can send them to Egypt. Maybe we can send them what. It was Egypt and Jordan that they wanted to send up to. Well, the majority of Jordanians are already Palestinian. Right.

So it's like, how many more are you trying to evacuate from their lands? Like, it's just wild. We were fully on board for that genocidal policy. Yeah. And Spain economically is weak. It's fragile. There's no way that. economically they could they could handle this it would be like if we rounded up every migrant in

california and dumped them in new york city so here you go uh mayor mondani you're a sanctuary city enjoy it would be fair i don't know it would shatter the city well the city still is not recovering from the bullshit that the governors of florida and texas did no i get but i mean that's what i mean that's what morocco allowed to happen to spain and i read the professor morandi And listen, if your enemy tells you what they're going to do, and I use the term deliberately enemy when I speak to Israel, because Israel isn't enemy of the United States. I agree with that. Then if they tell you what they're going to do, and if they tell you that they hate you, believe them. I mean, no, Turkey does.

They always want to do the same shit that they've done in the past. So, you know, I mean, they don't have a lot of new ideas. And by the way, Turkey is threatened to do that to Europe. If you remember, right? Well, the Greeks. If I'm not mistaken, Europe paid Turkey to keep many of the migrants from Syria in Turkey. No, they still pay them. And the Greeks, I mean, they keep on accidentally running over migrant boats in the Aegean.

And I don't know how many of people they kill. Thousands. There comes a point where migration isn't just because Jose wants to go get a better life and get a job as a carpenter somewhere. A lot of those countries use migration as a weapon. And that's what's going on here. I 100% agree with Professor Miranda. He is onto it. And Europe needs to wake the hell up.

Here's the thing, though. You know, I remember when I was in Europe, and I kept thinking to myself, these people are idiots. Like, when you're talking to, let's say the electorate and you're talking to liberals in Europe, liberals in Europe sound very similar to liberals in the United States when they're talking about right-winger. Oh, they're racist and they're this and they're that. And when you kind of point out, okay, well, do you accept the basic premise of the argument about immigration being overbearing in Europe, which it is. Europe is not America.

Like, meaning it's when you're looking at certain crimes and certain things like that in various particular parts of Europe and you're looking at the migrant population, there is a correlation between those things. This is that, you know, obviously I'm not anti-immigration. And so when I'm saying this, I'm saying this because it's true, at least from my understanding, it's true. But the truth is hateful, JT, is that's the problem. You're not able to say that because that makes you a white supremacist and a Nazi and a xenophob. Yeah, but I'm not. I mean, from my point of view, countries have a certain amount of immigrants that they can take in, that is, that balances the country out. Meaning, if you're talking to like Denmark, okay, Denmark is a tiny country.

Denmark is going to have a limit on the number of people that they can bring into the country without creating problems in the country itself. And those problems, some of those things are just basically poverty of the migrants. Meaning, if you don't have the capability for them to get jobs, education, to be reared into the culture itself, then you have people who you've bought in who are not able to integrate into the country and you've created this kind of weird poverty thing in the country that didn't exist prior,

not to mention the cultural and racial differences. It's, meaning it matters. There are limits to the number of people that countries can take in. At least that's my take on it, right? Liberals in Europe sometimes ignore that. And they would say, well, they're just racist. They're just sexes.

They're just this. They're just that. And then you point out, Well, how do you feel about the fact that many of these people are coming from Syria, a country that the United States effectively destroyed and that they're coming into your country because the U.S. destroyed the country? And they'd be like, what are you talking about? It's like, what do you mean? It's like, what do you mean?

Well, yeah, they don't know about Honduras either. I mean, you know. But it's just, wow. How do you completely ignore U.S. policy that has created this issue in your countries that didn't exist prior to the U.S. effectively destroying Syria? And they don't, at least in my experience, didn't make the connection between knows two things. No, they don't. Yeah, I agree. And Israel's doing it with the assistance of the United States and the American taxpayer. We are directly responsible for this. Just like the United States government

is responsible for destabilizing Central America and South America. That's why America first. Get the hell out. Trade us everybody and stop dropping bombs. If you want to fix immigration, that's how you do it. You stop tearing up the rest of the freaking globe. The Spanish are the Spanish military, way it has deployed and they've got there they're using riot gas riot canons uh you know water cannons uh they've been using live ammunition 34 people have drowned or otherwise died at least and they say that they've kicked 25 000 people out and uh they've 25 000 people yeah so this is over the course of like a couple of days yeah yeah that's right yeah so it's crazy we have a lot to talk about so let's do more comments.

Okay. I'm a man child says I'm a coffee. I'm a coffee snob. I don't trust internet coffee. But would you trust us? We're internet dudes and we would be drinking real coffee. You know, we, you know, look, I'm very, I'm a coffee snob. I order my coffee by mail because I don't like the coffee I can get locally.

Okay. I'm on a subscription basis. So I assure you I'm not going to drink any or recommend any shitty coffee. I couldn't live with myself. Coffee is not for the world unite. I'm jealous of people who can sell anything, like sell kebabs to the Greeks, but I'm not one of them. Okay. Okay, John D. Cackelfeller.

I'm currently cancer maxing with some Starbucks as we speak. I intend to be more coffee than man by midday. All right. Well, that's how science progresses. Killroy for President, 2028 saw a propaganda video blaming China for the water hack. Demonization of Asians worries me

for my partner and future children. I can say many of them are first generation immigrants and love the U.S. Yeah, that's always, I mean, the China thing sucked. Like, if you notice, I remember, I think it was like a couple of years ago where they were doing polls on China and the American perspective of it.

And you could see it get worse and worse and worse over time as the language hardened in the United States against China, the China virus. China is doing this. China is doing that. They're taking our jobs. They're taking our cash. They're stealing our technologies. Like meaning, that stuff affects how the American population sees us, not to mention when you add in media who amplifies whatever's coming out of the White House or whatever's coming out of from standpoint of policy. I mean, even if they don't like the White House, they still have American policy that the U.S. media amplifies. And it's usually demonization. of anybody that we don't particularly like, whether it's China, Russia, Iran, etc.

Not as well. Remember in New York City, like when Trump was at peak, China virus, homeless people got it into their deranged little heads that they needed to push Asian ladies off subway platforms, and there was a whole spate of that, right? It's outrageous. It's outrageous. And there's something inherently wrong if your country feels it needs to do that. Totally, totally.

Well, let's talk a little bit about Minnesota, since that is the subject here. So basically, there's been some cyber attacks, against, allegedly, against at least 30 local municipalities and their water systems. They didn't really do anything to hurt them. They certainly didn't hurt the water. It looks like it was hackers poking around and looking for things, exploring, maybe, you know, checking for vulnerabilities. Like one of these, like, hey, let's take a look. and then maybe later, just in case, in case of emergency, you know, if there were a bigger conflict, we could exercise this option.

You know, the fact that they said it to Iran, it's like, and the basis for this was they said that Iranians had expressed interest in hacking U.S. infrastructure. I mean, obviously the U.S. has been hacking Iranian infrastructure for years. And Iran has a pretty, they are pretty good at this. I guess, but it really reminds. reminded me of that Sony hacking thing with, you know, after that stupid Seth Rogan movie, the interview and North Korea was accused of, and then like later it was like, I don't think

there's really any, we don't really know who did that, right? Might have been North Korea. It could have been anybody. And like, you know, it's hard to tell. I mean, a lot of times when you hack in somewhere, you use bits of code that you pick up from other places in order to try to make it look like someone else did it, right? To try to throw them off the trail. And the truth is, you know, it's all digits, right? It's fungible. Everything is just typed. So everything can be cut and pasted and erased, right? It's like there's nothing, it's not like examining a piece of paper or, you know, examining a piece of like, you know, videotape, physical videotape. You don't have physical evidence that you can look at to, you know,

So cyber, I guess what's the word I'm looking? Cyber forensics are just not that reliable. This is a lot of pulling shit out of your ass. It is. No, it really is. I mean, think back to the thing that got Julian Assange on the hook more than anything else was when he released the CIA hacking. I think it was the CIA hacking tapes or hacking files.

But basically, we're talking about how the CIA can go into systems. and leave digital footprints of other people. So imagine like having a hacking tool where you go in and you leave footprints or fingerprints as if it was the Russians. And you would say, well, that's a Russian hacking technique. Okay. Maybe. Maybe, right? It's like you've copied something else that somebody else did in order to put the finger, point the finger at them.

And you can do that, right? And basically, these are tools that they have in their toolkit. Okay, well, if the CIA has a thing, you can imagine other countries have it. So who the hell knows who was responsible for it? You can say it was the Iranians because you're at war with Iran, but it doesn't have to be. And it doesn't even have to be a state actor. If I'm a hacker, I may not like the fact that you're attacking another country, in which case I may screw with you because of you're doing so,

meaning you may be creating anger in a way that non-state actors are getting involved and going after your systems. Okay, there's no way for me to entirely blame Iran for it. But even if they are, they're doing so for reasons. It's not like you're doing for the reason if that's true. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, just like the Egypt thing, where they were like, well, this fits within the places that Iran said they made attack for because of the boat that Ukraine hit. Okay, I don't know that.

And up to this one, Iran is they didn't do it. And considering they've been blowing the shit out of all sorts of things in, what, seven or eight countries, and they've been taking credit for each and every country that they've. attack. It's a little bit weird that they wouldn't take credit for hitting Egypt if indeed they hit it's like it's like the notorious first Trump administration memo a letter sent by signed by the 49 generals that said you know this has the hallmarks of Russian disinformation which again okay those are words but they don't mean anything like right at all it's like do you have evidence much less proof proof would be great but evidence do you have evidence when you could friend it then they were like well we didn't mean it like

like that. Right. Remember that when they were confronted? They were like, yeah, we didn't mean it like that. Yeah, because they put some, they buried some weasel language deep into the thing so that they'd be able to have plausible deniability. Not too plausible is the problem. Yep. By the way, Abdul Saeed, there's the Emerson poll that has him in the lead of what's her name of the Democratic. Oh, so that's, so that's new. Yeah. Let's see. So this is the, this is the Michigan race, of course.

Yeah. Between... I'm sorry to switch. I just wanted to get it while. It's good to know. Like, whatever. We talk about it. We talk about anything we want here.

Okay, so, yeah, I see the Emerson poll. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, this is dramatic. So this is... They got about 15 points. Yeah, so that, yeah, they do currently, now in the real clear politics average of, that's been updated since with some polls that go back to the beginning, to the middle of this month, mainly from about.

about the 14th to the 29th of July. I mean, that's just two days ago. Yeah, Sayy's like up 13, 16, 10, 15, 14 for an average of 10.2. Stevens was ahead as of, you know, earlier in the month by seven. I wonder if it was a debate. I'm going to break some brains. Well, she was, she was, she looked so fucking stupid. It was unbelievable.

If I've lived in Michigan as right wing and Christian as I am, I would still vote. I would vote for Saeed. Well, you'd have to register as a Democrat. I don't care. I would do it. Listen, I'm politically homeless. I don't care. I'm not married to the Republican Party.

They don't want me. They've made that very clear. So I will vote for the candidate. The party be damned. I wouldn't be surprised also if the big DNC, you know, the DNC is about as, you know, popular as herpes. And, you know, them coming in with, you know, fucking Clyburn and all the usual corporatists to try to affect the results.

And I mean, the APAC thing, between $30 and $60 million coming in from APAC for Haley Stevens. And she having no policies whatsoever. Literally, she's running, she's running kind of on a record. And, yeah. This might be the Mamadani effect again. Like, where the fact that they're putting so much money behind the other candidate

is the thing that on some level, well, as you pointed out, she looked dumb as a box rocks in the debate. So there's that. But as you point out. And he's not dumb as a box of rocks. He's not. I mean, and there's, do you think this is a change, I guess? Meaning, for one, if he wins, the loss for APAC would be breathtaking.

I mean, even for the party, it would be breathtaking if you win. My advice to APAC is you guys, your money's not doing any good anymore. It might be doing more harm than good. You might want to keep, you know, keep your checkbook dry. Yep. Yeah. Or they're going to start putting it under some other moniker, where it's not APAC, kind of like Blackwater changes their name to something else in order to make it seem different

than what it is. But not that the level of loss would be dramatic if he wins this. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, does it, is it a change? Meaning, are we looking at the Sanders revolution taking place? Yeah, it's a fucking, it's a fucking change. And here's why. Because up until now, they've been able to say, well, you know, okay, so a Democratic socialist, not that Said is a Democratic socialist, but he might as well be, right? I mean, his politics aren't, there's not a lot of daylight there. But, oh, well, you can do that in New York City, but like, you know, come on in Michigan, like we're real people, real Americans live, flyover country, like USA, USA. You can't do that, especially when we have this nice, oh, golly gee, like, you know, local yokel, like lady who helped

save the auto industry. You're not going to have some fucking ARAB come out here. and like and and and and and and start flying hammers and sickles all over the place with Islamos socialism. I mean, and then it's like, oh shit. Like like not only. A lot of socialist wine. Yeah. And it wiped the floor with her, right? And so then the next question is, I mean, it does look like he's going to win.

And I guess the next question is, you know, does he prevail in the general? If he prevails in the general and it's decisive, which is to say if it's more than three or four points, that's a game. I mean, even just like the, for the Civil War within the Democratic Party, this is going to embolden the left. It's going to be like, look, there's a model here. And also, you know, it's the support of the establishment is a poison pill. It's literally like we all hate the DNC. We hate the corporatists. We hate and we don't like the, you know, and we will vote for someone we weren't sure about because we hate you.

so much. That's the Mumdani thing. That's how Trump got elected. Yeah. If you think about it, that's how Trump got elected. The center failed. The wings started getting weight. You get Trump and you get Sanders on the other wing, meaning the public was fundamentally looking for something different on both sides. And the more honest race would have been Trump versus Sanders. Absolutely. It would have provided a real alternative. I mean, a real test. Once you had Trump versus a corporate test, I mean, of course Trump was going to I mean, look, and honestly, you know, Joe Biden did not win in 2020. Donald Trump lost in 2020. You know, he threw that election away by acting like a fucking madman in the middle of an international

health crisis. And I never understood the way he behaved. He, you know, I mean, Operation Warped Speed was his thing. I've always said that President Hillary Clinton would have never done that, never moved as quickly, would have been like, well, we're not going to have a vaccine for five years or more so I hope everything works out that that would have been her cautious approach he gambled it paid off and then he ran away from it if he hadn't done that he would have been reelected so the whole thing is you know it's kind of like i mean democrats should not have patted themselves on the back over 2020 they didn't you know they fucked up and then look at look at what happened ultimately they paid a ruinous price in 2024 um we got a really generous donation jama from waterways

Thank you so much for $50. Great way to end the week. Thank you, DeProgram, for another great month of shows. Have a great weekend, everyone. You too, a lot of ways. And John D. Cackefeller, thanks for the $5. Always a supporter of the show. If there's a mechanism by which we can actually suggest guests for D. Program and TMI,

I'd love to see Corey Doctoro with the Fellers. Yeah, I mean, I kind of know him. His piece on use of AI to minimum maximum wage discrimination is very interesting. Robbie Doctor. Yeah, I think I have Corey's number. I'm not sure if we do, but answer this question. I have a set up a new email address, and it's just for this, just so that way stuff doesn't get lost, just all the messages that I get. You don't want to do this one?

Yeah, if we do that one. Okay. You say, Corey Do you call it, AI. It sounds interesting. That's what I'm asking you. You say AI. It's AI to minimum and maximum wage discrimination. Now, what is that one on?

To minimize, I don't even know what that means, but yeah. Fair enough. Anyway, if you want to drop a line to the show, deprogram podcast at Gmail is the, is the place to do that. But we will set up an inbox that Robbie will monitor, because I have to admit, I never go look at the Gmail. And then I'm like, shit i should look to that so it's just i mean there's just a ton of stuff so someone

he's going to help this quick uh robbie at west glacier media dot com that's gonna be the best way because it's only for people here on the show like period so if y'all need me that's the best way to get it and um yeah because we are looking for guests looking for ways just kind of just get more people on here and be it'll be more entertaining more fun hopefully more educational in a good way education not indoctrination Education sounds so fun. No, actually it is. P.W. Walker, thanks for the dollar. We didn't pull out of Lebanon for Trump.

You think we'll pull out of Gaza for Amalek? Bibi. Right. Yeah. Yeah. True, true, true. All right. I mean, they didn't pull out.

I mean, they're still in Lebanon. In fact, they're trying to go on forward. They've been blowing up communities like as recent as yesterday. Oh, so here Vincent brings up an interesting point. He says, Abdul is not a solution, though. Abdul is the progressive candidate in Michigan for the Senate race. Another sheepdog into the corporate colonialist party, 28 should be third parties because both have shown absolutely hatred toward the people.

Look, I agree. I don't think the Democratic Party is redeemable, and I don't think the left should have anything to do with it. But is this a meaningful moment? Yeah, because it's for what it reflects. It reflects popular dissatisfaction among mainstream. midwestern American voters with the corporate, you know, pseudo left. So, I mean, I think it matters.

Yeah, I think it matters too. I think people are looking for a solution, meaning it's indicative of something. It's not the typical corporatist that is usually having an entire machine, you're behind him with the money and everything else. If Saeed wins, that process has failed. Like, these guys have drunk, what, $30, $40 million into a race, into primary, no less, in order to stop the guy. Okay, what does it mean if all of that money effectively fails to do what they want that money to do? Nothing mentioned using the fact that he's Muslim against them.

Like, all of this stuff is effectively that he's socialist. I mean, they're hitting him with pretty much anything in the kitchen sink. Even when he's going on TV, and I ask him like, should Israel have a right to exist? Like, they're asking questions like that, right? Like they're hitting them in a particular way. Right. If all of it fails, what does it mean? Especially in the context of the races that took place like in New York with Mamdani and some of the other people who were running for Congress.

I don't know. I think it means something. Whether it's not a revolution, but it means something. It's not a revolution. Yeah. And not to mention it's coming up on a string of corporatist failures within the Democratic Party. I mean, Democratic Party has no money, right? The DNC is in $2 million in debt.

Trump has half a billion dollars in cash. I mean, you know, come on. It shows the unhappiness within the party. Ken Martin's on the way out. He's supposed to be DNC chair for another like three years. But he doesn't think he'll make it. Nobody else thinks he'll make it. Okay, so let's see.

There was one other thing that we needed to discuss, of course. Oh, yeah. So there's this school shooting in Georgia a couple years ago. a kid named Colt Gray, that was his name, went to, basically took an AR-15 that his dad had left in his room and went to school and shot and killed a bunch of his students. So there was a kind of a landmark case. The dad, who by all accounts, was a worthless, drunken, drug-addle piece of shit and a terrible parent. alongside the terrible mom, basically was found guilty of second-degree murder for his, basically for knowing that his kid was suffering from psychological problems,

was obsessed with school shooting, and nevertheless leaving a gun easily accessible to him, which was then used to kill all these people. I mean, look, I get the theory of the case. I mean, you know, shitty parent allowed this to happen. reminds me a little bit of Newtown, right? The Sandy Hook shootings where the stupid fucking mom also gave like guns to her crazy, insane, like knowingly crazy, you know, son to go and kill a bunch of little kids. And so obviously, if you're a parent of one of these kids, you know, one of the victims,

obviously you want everyone who's responsible directly or indirectly to be held accountable. I get it. On the other hand, there's something about this that makes me uncomfortable, which is, you know, to what should negligence, even really, even negligence that has incredibly the worst possible consequences, should it land you in prison for 15 fucking years of your life? I mean, I guess I don't know. I'm going to say, yeah. I mean, it depends on it's gross negligence.

It sure is. I mean, you're leaving, I mean, yes, when this, I remember when this case first took place. And yeah, I feel some kind of way about it also. Because as bad as the parents were, the parents didn't have in their mind that the kid was going to take a gun and go murder a lot of people. No. By the same token, the kid did go and murder a bunch of people based upon the parents' actions. I don't know. This one is difficult for me.

I mean, the catch becomes, how gross does negligence have to be? for somebody to be put in prison for a very long time. And is it foreseeable from the parents' point of view that the kid was going to take the gun and go and kill people? And doesn't matter that it was foreseeable. Meaning, is it just that the parents left their gun with a kid? And that kid ended up creating a whole thing. And so the chain of events was the parents should have been more careful with their gun. Is it that?

Meaning, let's say the parents threw the gun outside in a dumpster. And somebody picked up the gun and go kill somebody. Okay, would they be negligent? That's like the Hunter Biden thing where he threw his gun away in the dumpster. Yes. Now, as opposed to the bodyguard or Joe Biden getting that gun, if somebody else got that gun, killed a bunch of people and they attributed to the fact that Hunter Biden threw it in a dumpster, should Hunter Biden be negligible for gross negligence, a homicide?

That's tough. I mean, look, I agree with you. That's tough. That's a tough one. It's not open and shut, right? I mean, I guess I don't really have a problem with the theory of negligence in general. I think that like if you leave something as dangerous as a firearm lying around where it's not supposed to be where any asshole can get to it and you happen to live with a kid who is deranged, then probably, you know, obviously there's a credible case to be made for negligence here. Let's say it was a baby.

But 15 years is a long time. There are people who've raped people and didn't go to prison for that long. Yeah, but it's just deaf. As the gun owner on the show, I have no problem with what happened to the dad. By the way, I own guns myself. I used to own a shotgun. I used to own, I used to go out shooting all the time. I enjoy it.

I mean, no, I don't have a gun safe. My rifles are literally right here in my closet. They've never been locked up. I taught my son how to shoot on an AK-47. Best platform in the world is seeing someone how to shoot on because it's idiot-proof. Now, say for the moment that your kid comes in, takes that gun, and goes out, shoots somebody, are you culpable for what the kid did because the guns were accessible? If my son was nuts and I knew that he was nuts and I was not locking that gun up 100%.

Now, if my son just comes home, gets the gun up to this point, he's been perfectly the rational, highly functioned human being, no, because that's a different thing. If there's a pattern that my son is a psychopath, then it is my responsibility to have a gun safe. That being said, the idea of gun control here in my house is common sense. Like, when I taught my son and daughter how to shoot, I'm about to go because TMI is coming up, the very first thing that I did, I took them out to the backyard. I got a watermelon and I shot it and it exploded. I said you need to understand the power these things have.

If you shoot your brother, your sister or somebody else, that's what happens. You can't fix it. And that imprinted on their minds, that is a very visceral image. It starts up here. What if the parents left the gun out and a baby shot itself or shot another family member, then what? Like, would the parents be culpable? 100%. 100% because that's negligence at the highest level.

Like, if I leave by Jericho 941 on the end table and a toddler comes in and shoots himself or somebody else, 100%, because that gun is on me. But that's one point about the gross negligence thing. like aren't those things the same like meaning whether the kid goes and shoots a bunch of other people where the kids shoots himself and should the parents be held responsible for it I mean the gross negligence thing feels like it's yeah on some level necessary the other parents who parents were who kids were shot are going to be out for blood and doesn't have to be a consequence for it and does a consequence land with the parent or with the kid guys we're over to tell you what invite me on invite me on your show later on and we'll talk about this okay we will talk about this later thanks everyone for tuning in TMI coming up right now to tune in 59 minutes for Scott Stantis and I on DMC America podcast have a great weekend see later JT see you soon Robbie bye