DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - How Israel Lost the War | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM ET. Today we discuss:• As the Gaza War begins its fourth year, Israel has lost. Israelis are reeling from new revelations in Israeli and U.S. media that the country had been repeatedly warned by its regional allies that Hamas was planning to attack. The war has lifting public debt. Lost output, reserve call-ups, and the departure of about 100,000 skilled Israelis have strained the economy. Hamas is not disarmed, and Israel’s diplomatic isolation has deepened: Palestinian recognitions, settlement sanctions, ICC warrants, arms-embargo pressure, and much less support in Europe and the U.S. What happens next?• Former CIA officer David J. Rush pleaded guilty in Alexandria, Virginia, to one count of wire fraud that could bring up to 20 years in prison. Prosecutors said his schemes exceeded $193 million: a fake classified program used to buy about $145 million in Palm Beach luxury real estate, 298 gold bars costing the government more than $46 million, and roughly $1.8 million in unjustified charter flights. He also admitted disclosing a clandestine human source to a foreign official. Sentencing is set for January.• The European Commission proposed measures to prepare the EU to take in countries such as Montenegro, Albania, Ukraine and Moldova in coming ​years. The proposals by the European Union’s executive body reflect a renewed interest among EU members in expanding the 27-nation bloc. The proposed ⁠reforms include a measure ⁠to allow other EU countries to suspend a new member’s voting rights during the first 15 years of membership if it stops adhering to the bloc’s values• Trump’s plan to fence in Lafayette Park across the street from the White House would deter the free speech activities that have long defined the seven-acre park and make it easier for the administration to curb protests at will. It is the latest example of President Trump’s use of executive measures and legal maneuvers to clamp down on dissent.• Christa Pike, who survived two doses of a lethal injection drug during a botched execution in Tennessee, is conscious and speaking. The prognosis remains unclear, they said, but lawyers expect a long recovery. Pike, 50, is believed to be the first person to have survived doses of a lethal injection drug.MERCHANDISE: DeProgram.MySpreadShop.comLIVE ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@DeProgramShowLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowhttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomas#tedrall #jamarlthomas #news #politics

Good morning. It's Wednesday, October 7th, 2026th, and this is D-Program with Ted Rall and Jamaral Thomas. Today is, of course, the third anniversary of the Hamas raid into Israel proper on October 7, 2023. So as the Gaza War begins year four, I say it's pretty clear that Israel has lost. Netanyahu certainly is in deep trouble. We'll talk about that. Former CIA officer David J. Rush has pled guilty to a very minor, relatively minor count of wire fraud, but he apparently stole or was involved in the theft of close to $200 million. We'll get into that. The EU is proposing a series of measures to prepare the EU to accept countries like Ukraine and Montenegro. but they kind of like want to make it like more tentative. So not all members are equal. At least the new ones won't really be equal until they're in for at least 15 years. We'll talk about the future of the EU.

Donald Trump wants to fence in the big park right across the street from the White House where there have always been protests against the president. We'll talk about the implications there. Prista Pike, of course, the victim of two botched executions. attempts in the state of Tennessee is now is still in hospital she has she's the only person known to have survived quote unquote lethal injection drugs not that lethal in this case she is up and talking not up maybe but she's talking and they're expecting a long recovery and the question is what does this all mean for the death penalty and for her personally and so on please like follow and share the show this is a two-hour show. We're here on Monday's, Wednesdays, and Fridays until 9 a.m., from 9 a.m. until 11 a.m.

This is one of those days. The second hour will be more focused on the questions and answers than the first hour, but we're always happy to take your questions and answers. Producer Robbie West will post them in Rumble and YouTube. If you're watching in the live two hours, please go ahead and put those up. We especially appreciate and really need the subscriptions and the Rumble Rans and the paid YouTube chats. So if you are so inclined, we'd really appreciate it if you could do that. Okay, that's a lot of housekeeping. Good morning, Jamar.

How you doing? It has been a mess of a day. I'm doing okay. Oh, shit. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah. You know, 7 a.m., booking a show at 7 a.m. is always difficult, because if you're talking to Americans, nobody wants to be up at 7 a.m.

Even the host of the show doesn't want to be up at 7 a.m. Right. So I finally get nobody picked up. And around three in the morning, four in the morning, Sarah hit me up and was like, hey, I'll do the show. I didn't see this because it's three in the morning. And I'm assuming that I am not doing the show at 7 a.m. My first guess is at 8 o'clock. And I see it.

I'm like, oh, damn, Sarah, I bring you on. So I have to set up the show. The show starts at 7.30. and my might doesn't work, but whatever reason. Sarah starts dancing a jig. Oh, right? You mean she's like,

yeah, at fact, she says, he's left the white girl on air to do the show. I don't know why that's relevant, right? But whatever. For some reason, white women have a tendency to bring up the fact that they're white women to black men. But she's like, yeah, he's left the white woman on the show to do it. And she does a good job.

She starts talking about AI. She starts filling the space and doesn't, her own thing. She has her own show, right? Finally, the mic works. So, but this is like 735, 7, you know, it's like it's been five or six minutes of your guest doing the show by themselves, because nobody can hear you. Just a mess. But she sounds like, but she's a pro. So it was Yeah, she knows what she's not. Let me tell you what if you ever cannot get a guest. And if you someone who will piss off like three quarters of your audience or at least get engagement going i know a guy i got you you know a guy usually here's the thing though for me the guest is usually specific to top

so like if you're covering the story you want the guests to cover the story and i don't like this idea of just fucking around with my audience time for lack of a better time like yeah it's it's absolutely mortifying you know the idea that there's like it's it goes back to like um you know even regular radio, right? Like, dead air is absolutely like verboten, right? Like, you just, you have to, you want it to be there, you know, you want it to start. It's like out of the gate, like a racehorse. Yeah, it screws with you. And it's like you're trying to kind of piece things back together in order to have a show that works. And it worked, right? Caleb was fantastic. Sarah was awesome. Also, you know what is funny. You observe this here, Jamarrow, right? Like, the truth is

most people aren't here at the beginning, right? Like most people come in later. Like right now I'm looking at the numbers live. We're at 153. I'm sure we'll be well over 300 by the end of the hour. And by the end of the second hour, we'll probably be pushing 400. It's like, so I saw it when we first came on,

there were maybe 30 or 40 people. So if we'd screwed up the first minute or two, you know, only a tenth of the audience would have really known. Yeah, I fear you. I figure. I figure you. Usually martial starts at either 7 or 7.15. if I've eaten my weaties and I have a monologue 7 o'clock. It's not and it's kind of like, because I don't always have something to say about everything that goes on, right?

It's usually something that bugs me is why the monologue comes into play. But you spend most of your day doing process stuff. So it's like you're booking the guests, cutting the shows. You are most of your day's process. And so the time to sit down and actually read through everything in a way where it's like bugs. you and that type of stuff. You have less of it. I don't know. It's, yes, I want stuff to work. I don't want stuff to work at one point. So, let's do some comments. And then we'll get to it, get to whatever you want to start with tomorrow. October 7. Because I didn't even realize it was

October 7. I did my entire show was so running. And what didn't realize it until you said it, but we should start there. Okay, good. We'll do that. Let's, a schizo. Did you guys hear about the Marine that raped a woman in Japan? First of all, we'll say a Marine who allegedly raped a woman in Japan. They're being forced to stay on base and the Japanese people want them out. I mean, this is a recurring issue in Okinawa, right? There's a major U.S. base there. It's been there since World War II. It's basically kind of like, hey, Japanese people, don't get spicy again. We're right here. And the Marines there are off. Sorry? I think my cousin was there. My cousin was in the military. And I think he was in Japan.

I know he was in Japan. I think it's so the Okinawans don't seem to want them there. They're, you know, obviously it's a part of the economy, but, you know, a lot of the, you know, there's a long history of U.S. Marines misbehaving there, attacking, raping local women. And, you know, obviously there's a vibrant sex trade going on there. So it's, you know, it's unpleasant for the locals. And I think if there were a plebiscite, I'm sure the Japanese would vote to have that base closed and the Americans forced to leave. It's not yet. This is just another step in that direction, right?

I mean, I don't have a lot to say about it, except, you know, it's embarrassing to, as usual, it's embarrassing to be an American. We've calling that the world with military bases. It's infinitely conceivable that this would happen. I mean, people rape in their own country, right? Of course. It's not shocking that the people who rape in their own country may go to other countries and also commit rapes. we would want a higher standard because we want to say well these are the U.S. military. Like we would like them to be Stargate, right?

Stargate command where the people are decent and they try to do the right thing, even in different school circumstances, et cetera. Some people are psychos and some people have no issue taking what they want. And it just so happened. So I'm going to say something that is going to be a little controversial. I think if you're a psycho, you're more likely, I mean, let's put it this way. If psychos are probably disproportionately highly represented in the military, in a volunteer military, than they are, than normal people. You know what I mean?

I don't know. I think a lot of people. I mean, if you, I mean, you know, you're literally taking a job that's not paid terribly well in which you may be asked to go and kill people who haven't done anything to you. That's not like really the most normal psychology for most people. I would say for for a lot of people that the military and stuff like that I would agree but I would argue politics they're more highly representative I mean it's one thing to say I'm sitting I as an individual and I'm going to go out because my country ideally sends me somewhere to fight and to kill as opposed to the guy that's doing it like the guy that's doing it is on another level right this person or this soldier may kill somebody as an individual level that's assuming they're fire in a rifle or whatever or going into a city. Another one may fire artillery and kill a certain number of people. But the people who are in charge who are effectively allowing this stuff to take place and pushing it.

Like I give an example, great example. The Ukrainian war never needed to take place. Right. And over and over again, there were multiple steps where Putin was either the Mitz agreements, either the Istanbul agreements. And in each of these situations, Europe killed the deal, meaning they pushed this war forward. The NET means NEP memorandum by William Burns makes it very clear that the U.S. and Europe fully understood the gravity of what was taking place, meaning we understand that there is most likely going to be a civil war as a result of us offering NATO membership to Ukraine. And they did it anyway.

At no point did they want to stop this war, meaning they full well understood the number of people that were going to get killed, the number of people that were going to die. Didn't matter. Now, you could say that those people aren't psychopaths. I think they are. I think that's insane. I don't, I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I totally think they're psychopaths in, there's just a different kind of psychopaths.

And CEOs. Yeah, no, I think they're highly representative in certain career things. Maybe a soldier, fair enough. Like the guy who got capped by Luigi. Total psycho. Yeah. But that's kind of, well, but that guy's.

But right now we're talking about the Okinawa situation. I'm just saying the kind of person who would enlisting in the military, voluntarily. And again, I reiterate the fact that this is not a terribly well-paid job, which kind of, you know, kind of belies the whole, well, you know, for many, you know, Robbie's trying to make that point, like, oh, you know, for a lot of people, there's no other way. There's always another way. There's always a job in a fast food restaurant, you know?

How do you think my cousin joined the military? I don't know your cousin. Oh, that's fair. Fair enough. I'll tell you, he's not a second. I'll tell you that. I would also tell you that part of the reason that you join is because many people see the military. By the way, I'm not saying all people who join the military are psychopaths.

I'm saying that, like, I would imagine if you took the population, if you said what percentage of the military are psychopaths, I'm going to say probably that's a higher number. In fact, the military has found that to be true. It's a higher number than the population in general. That's all I'm saying. That's right. I mean, I'm sure the vast majority of members of the military are not psychopaths. I'm just going to say that they're disproportionately represented. That's all.

That's great. I don't know the numbers for it, so I don't know the answer for it. And you might be right, especially when you get into a seal team six and those type of things. Well, they're more interested in the military is actually actively interested in sociopaths. People who don't feel, it's not that their sociopaths aren't really bad people, but they're people who don't feel guilty. Like, for example, if they have to kill someone, it doesn't haunt them. Well, it's, well, sociopaths is a little bit different. The sociopaths has to do with social incentives that make a person or get a person into the mindset that this is okay.

Like, let's say you grew up in a ghetto. It's a horrible situation, right? Like, sorry to interrupt, but it's also important to say, right? Like, I kind of, you know, sort of emphasize, like, the kind of person who would join. But then there's also, like, what they do to you after you get in, after you join, right? That's all, that's not a small part of the equation. And then they're also putting you in a single sex. environment, like in many cases, right?

Like so, I mean, also it's, I mean, the idea that, like, soldiers might be likely or to be rapier, I mean, that's not surprising either, right? I mean, it's kind of like Catholic priests or, you know, I mean, any single-sex environment or fraternities at Cornell University or, you know, any single-sex environment is going to tend to be a little rapy. But it's not, I mean, okay, well, for one, Cornell University, what, the school may be single-sex. they're not trapped. It's not a prison.

The man can go out. If you're a fraternity brother, like one of the reasons I would not, okay, I had the, I totally can speak to this. So at Columbia, we had the ability to, starting the year that I was there, to live in the Barnard dorms if we won the housing lottery, right? So you could choose. So I was very, very happy that I was one of like the few guys who got to live at the Barnard dorms. all of my guy friends were like, why would you want to live over there? You have to live and eat in the cafeteria with all those girls. I'm like, because you have to, my answer was because I want to live and eat with all those girls. Right.

And so like, and I was like, why do you want to be over here with all these guys? Right. Like, I was like, I was like, why? And I guess it's like, well, you know, we just like it better. But I'm like, I think I like, I'm a little more heterose. than you are. Maybe I'm wrong. We had co-sex dorms.

Like, we had men and women in our dorms. Like, it was great. Well, that's what it's like now. But Columbia was a, Columbia University, Columbia College was a single-sex all-male school until 1983. And then you're looking at the presidents for students for co-education right here. And we, and so like women were admitted in 1983. And so that year, we had a crossover between the Barnard and the Columbia dorms.

Now it's completely, the Columbia dorms are completely co-ed, of course. Well, just to make the point, though, basically the argument is the single-sex environments make people more rapy. I think that's the argument that's being made. Yeah, that's my argument. I don't have an answer to that. I don't have an answer to that. Because militaries, I think, are a bit different. Like, I think militaries, there's a culture in militaries of rape.

in general. Like meaning you take, they even got what, taking booty, right? I mean, hell, you're taking people's entire countries, right? So what's the big deal about taking one person's body? I know, but often, right, it's like the one person's body matters less than the fact that they've just taken over the entirety of the country, but oftentimes the bodies of the people that are there becomes part of the, quote, quote, booty. It's not great.

It's not a rah-rah. But it's not like it's uncommon. It's an ancient mentality to the victor goes the spoils, right? To the victim goes to spoils, including protecting our young women and our, you know, wives, yeah, wives a woman. No, I, but on Japan, these guys are not at war, right? Like, meaning the rapy thing comes in, I think, because of the pumped up war stuff. These guys aren't at war.

They're just in a military base. But we know, but everyone's well aware why they're at that. base, right? Why is that base there? If you can spit game, you can get Japanese women as my cousin was able to do. Just pointing out, you don't have to be a rapist, right? Oh, for sure, for sure.

I mean, obviously, and look, again, obviously, I'm sure, first of all, the U.S. military couldn't function if most of its soldiers were rapists, right? I mean, obviously, most of them are not. Okay. I think the key part of the story is they shouldn't be in Japan. They shouldn't be in Okinawa.

That's the key point, right? Well, because they're not needed or wanted. So, yes, that's correct. Bad Cookies wants to know. Jamal, you have the answer to this question. Do you guys know what is the name of Jamaral Thomas's other show? The Jamal Thomas show. Easy to remember.

That's the name. It's on my channel. Jamal Thomas. It's just a Jamal Thomas show. I have shows all throughout the day. Melissa Morgan says, no, Robbie. Not you. Can't have you annoying me on two channels.

What? You don't have Robby. In terms of Robbie appearing on your show, when you need help, like, she's like, no. If I need a right winger, I'll bring him on. Wait, Robbie's a right winger? I didn't know that. All right. Okay, Duskburn.

Most folks I was a North Korean communist. Right. Right. Most folks I know joined the service because they wanted the chance to go to college. That too. Daniel says, I was poor and wanted to go to. to college. I got a pill grant and a job, no need to join the military. Pell grant doesn't pay much, but not that it was a military.

Douglas, frat boys seem very gay-coded. That's why so many end up in the Republican Party. I agree with that. That's what I'm trying to say. So, like, I had, so there were, there were very few frats at Columbia. There were only, like, three when I went there. Total membership was under 100 people, right? You know, in a school with, like, oh, 24,000 people in the university, right? So it's a, you know, it's a, it's nothing. It's probably bigger now than it used to be because life has just gotten worse. But anyway, I had a friend who he, he was pledged to one of the frats there. And he told me what the initiation ritual was, which was you had to masturbate onto a saltine and then eat it. And then sometimes the variant was you had to

eat someone else's salteam. Now that's not gay coded at all. There's nothing gay about that. Nothing gay about that at all. Yeah. Like, I never wanted to be in the frat because I thought people could be that it was, I don't know, it was a crowd issue. Like it was a virtue signal issue. Like I thought, okay, these are very weak people that need to come together in this way.

I mean, granted, that's not fair. But that was the way I thought about it. The gay thing is. See, that's so funny how I just think of them as like, I mean, it's gay-coded, right? I mean, look, it's like football is gay-coded with like the tight pants and they grab each other's asses and they're all in the locker room together. I mean, it's like a gay, it's like a gay fantasy porn movie, right? I mean, a lot of American culture is kind of gay. Like, Heng Seth is gay.

Rubio is gay. Like, right-wing culture is very gay, you know? They celebrate the masculine. if that's what you mean. Well, yeah, in a certain kind of way. It's not the most masculine thing in the world. That's very gross. Like the fact that they would, at that moment,

they should have been like, you know what? I don't need this. I just walk, right? Like the idea that you sit there like, I'm going to eat another man semen on a cracker in order to be part of a fraternity. About. Really?

It matters that much to you. That's insane shit. When I was in high school, I was in high school. I was in marching band. in high school and we had hazing still it was the late 70s and um and and and I had to and my hazing was I was ordered to we were all different had different shit like some people had to use a toothbrush to clean an entire statue I was told to wear uh to wear high heels for a week in school

now that I actually to tell you the truth this was a great experience because it really taught me one thing which is that high heels should be banned and that women who that men who that Men who require like their women to wear high heels are assholes because high heels are insanely painful and hard to walk in. I mean, it's just they should be banned by law along with football. I have tattoos. I have a tattoo in the back of my neck. I have one of my arm. I have one of them.

I think tattoos are sexy. Even on women, I think tattoos are sexy. I think, um, piercings. What does that have to do with high heels? Because it's pain. You're paying pain for the luxury of. the look. You sound like my mom. My mom used to wear all sorts of clothes and shoes because she's French. Then she was like, I was like, that looks really scratchy and uncomfortable. She'd be like,

it is. What matters is looking good. Exactly. It's that part. French. It's like, yeah, it hurts. But the pain is payment for the look. That's the way I look at it. By the way, did you see the video that's going around that's viral that's like of the French riots and it's at the cafe. I don't know which city it's in, but there's a middle-aged couple, and they're just eating their wine, they're drinking their red wine, and they're eating their food, and things are burning and blowing up behind them. And it doesn't, and every now and then, they're like, oh, yeah, something blows up, and they're just drinking. And someone captioned it, this is the most French thing ever. It's so cool. That's awesome. That's awesome. Because that's one of the

That's parts of friends that you guys sit at the cafe hours. No matter what. Yeah. Okay. We have half an hour in almost, not even. But we should, okay, Gaza. So it's October 7th. Three years ago.

We all know what happened. Where is Israel now? It's been three years? I thought it was two. It's been three years. Three years. So, you know, so the point is what right now, the big story in Israel.

You know, they have an election coming up in a couple of weeks. Nobody knows how it's going to go. It's kind of even. But basically, the U.S. is the UAE, Egypt, my cat, Clovis. Everybody warned Netanyahu that this was going to happen. So obviously, he knew it was going to happen and decided not to do anything about it. So, you know, one of the stories that we don't cover here much is the Israeli economy is in real trouble. They've lost 100,000 of the most skilled workers have fled the country.

The national debt has increased a lot. The Israeli businesses have been disrupted by so many people being called, being drafted into the reserves. Obviously, to me, the big influence, I mean, Hamas is still gangbusters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. You know, Israel is deeply diplomatic. diplomatically isolated. There's warrants for the prime minister's arrest from the ICC. Palestine's being recognized by a lot of countries that never would have before.

You know, before I did this show, I was talking to Spanish government officials who are looking to help fund a play that's going to be put on in Palestine. I might be due to the graphic novel adaptation for it. Just another example of just like everybody's like pro-Palestine now. Nobody likes Israel. U.S. support for Israel is plummeting even among Republicans. I mean, the point is, I think it's fair to say that Israel has lost and it's never coming back. And it's, you know, this was an amazing victory on the part of Hamas. I mean, I think this must have greatly exceeded their expectations.

they were hoping to just change the outcome of negotiations. But this has gone beyond that. I mean, Israel is now facing its big existential crisis since 1948. Yeah. I mean, talk about heels hurting, right? This was paid in blood from standpoint of Fumas. And, I mean, I think I agree with the assessment. I think I do.

I think it's the cost. that's difficult to accept. But yeah, I think I agree with the assessment. That the reality of it is, Israel, I mean, the fact that Israel is trying to ingratiate it so further into the U.S. military gets to your point, right? They don't believe that what's coming in the next 10, 15, 20 years is going to be favorable to them because they are a pariah state that just committed a genocide, that the entire world watched live streamed.

That's heavy, right? That's not, it's very heavy. You could say when the Germans committed their genocide, that the public knew, but kind of not, like it was kind of this, well, we have an idea of something taking place, but we haven't seen it. It's not sitting in Germany. It's not being live streamed where each and every person around the world can actually watch them take glee out of murdering kids. We didn't get that opportunity when the Second World War was taking place. We got it now. And for all of this years of them trying to say,

don't believe your lying eyes. It's not a genocide. By the way, they still push that narrative. It's not a genocide. Every single day, I see it on social media. There is no genocide. That's their talking point on the Hasbara channels. Right. And it's like, nobody believes you. Nobody believes you. Nobody believes you. Keep yelling, idiots. It doesn't help. You're just making yourself itself look foolish. Which is great because I feel like this is an argument that we won. Like, I know a lot of people think political divisions just last forever, but they don't last forever. I mean, there are things that are won and there are things that are lost, especially from the standpoint of narratives. Rape is looked at as bad.

Right? Like, that's a bad thing. Okay, that's somebody won. That's an argument that was won because at some point may not have been necessarily bad. It is now. Civil rights. Being racist, is not necessarily being racist as frail to put. Okay, why?

Because the argument was one. And I think this is one of those things. where this incessant push of you're committing a genocide, you're committing a genocide, you're murdering women and children, here's the videos, here's the evidence. It's so voluminous. You can't turn away. You just can't turn away. They lost argument. It's, I mean, I think it's really, I mean, actually very profound what you just said, right? I mean, political change does happen, right? But it's in fits and starts, kind of like the way evolution is. You know, it's like a prisoner chipping away at his prison cell wall.

And he spends years every day, chips away a little more. And then suddenly one day, 17 years into it, you know, the wall falls into, it falls into the shaft. And he's like, holy shit, I'm standing in like the, I'm standing like between the walls. I can see out. Right. And like that's what political change is like. I mean, and it could be over something as profound as civil rights. Or like, you know, not as important.

as like say whether or not you should be able to smoke in an office. I mean, you know, when, I mean, you know, civil rights, that's a struggle that went on for, you know, well over a hundred years. And like, you know, for people grew up, lived full long lives and died thinking that this was never going to change. But it did. And, and like, that's what this is like. It's like, you know, I thought we would never see a world in which, you know, the U.S.

would turn away from Israel. I'm sure that we're going to see a world in which the U.S. stops funding. I'm 63. I know I'm going to live to see the day that there's not a single dollar going from the United States to Israel. And I don't think I'm going to have to wait that long to see it. You know, I don't know. And I just think that's a profound change. And Hamas delivered the final blow. Here's the part that you're missing. And this is, I mean, what's your saying is that is in part correct. If you go poll the normal person on the street, they're going to tell you Israel is a genocidal state, we should have nothing to do with it. The problem is,

is that you keep thinking that the man on the street actually has a say in the so-called democracies of which we live. They control the ruling class. That's the issue. It doesn't matter what I think, Ted Rawl thinks, JT thinks, or 90% of the people in the chat think. What matters, well, Well, I mean, the only reason, look, I agree with your point that the political class hasn't changed. But I think the issue is, in 10 years, is a political class still going to be the same political class? That's the question. People who are in the 20s now, and at 30s, their 40s now going into politics, then what is it going to be the position of those people when they go into it? Are they going to be Ra Ra, Ra, Israel?

Are they going to be very skeptical of the state? That's the question. Yeah. Well, that's the question. I don't know because I don't believe this is a two-year change. I think this takes place over like 10-15 years. Oh, yeah. It'll be decades.

But, I mean, if there is change that happens, it will be after an economic collapse, when the banking class is brought down, the entire economic system fractures. And then normal people, for lack of a better word, have a chance to take back some of their power. If we just keep limping along right now, just slowly boiling the pot, then the people are going to continue sleeping. they continue watching football, drinking their beer, watching their Netflix, hopping over to West Glacier Gaming, watching a gaming stream. And then what's your waste of time did there be?

No, the debate will go on. Until there's real pain where the people on the street, basically the ruling class has power until they don't. When the normal people figure out, hey, we can actually inflict change, that's where the rule in class breaks. the problem is how long is it's going to take to get there? 10 years? 50, 100? Never? That's the question. I'll think it's 50. Give a good five at the most.

Okay, but the thing is that, like, so look, you're, Robbie's right and Robbie's wrong, right? I mean, so on the one hand, it's certainly true that the ruling classes don't give a shit about us and would love to just ignore the people as much as they can. And for the most part,

to the extent that they can, they do. But when there are certain crises that, like, for example, we're seeing in France right now, there, those, you know, things can't, when things get spicy, they can't ignore it anymore. And I'm always, I was very taken by when I learned that, by the fact that, you know, even Nazi Germany, you know, which was a totalitarian state that ruled by incredible fear, I mean, to the point where even if you were in the resistance, but your family wasn't, they would kill your family, right? The German government, nevertheless, had a need to know what was going on and hear it what people were thinking to the point where they had squads of spies hang out in German bars and cafes, eavesdropping people's conversations about politics, like, hey, so what do you think about the furor? And like, so, like, so why would a totalitarian state like Nazi Germany care about that?

Well, obviously, because what, even if you're, you know, the leader of North Korea or whatever, the point is you have to care what the people think. Because if you don't eventually, they might come for you, like Chichescu, right? So you have, so I'm just saying they do, they have to care sometimes is all I'm saying. They don't care until they do care, but they have to care sometimes. We're the gopher tortoise Rome. Republicans are openly Jewish and secretly gay. Democrats are openly gay and secretly Jewish.

I don't know about the Jewish part, but the gay part is pretty funny. Schroding sure's cat, Ted is like my crazy uncle that believes in communism. Okay. That's all the comment was. Yeah, that's all the comment was. Douglas, the Israeli economy isn't in trouble. The U.S. economy is, and that's why they're in the shit. Partly, there's some truth to that.

But, you know, I mean, there is no Israeli economy without the United States economy. Did you see Putin's comments, Daniel wants to know about Israel? He repeated the same two-state solution line that Western politicians repeat who did not want to talk about imposing sanctions or break ties with Israel. I did not see that. I've seen that. Putin has a very weird association with Israel. I've had this conversation on my show.

And there have been some people who I think may go a little bit far in any appraisal of Putin in regards to Israel. But there is something there that is not necessarily part of the Russian part. Like, meaning there's a distinction between Putin versus Russia in regards to Israel. It seems that way. And he seems to be far less. Like, for example, they will put out statements. They're not going to do anything. And even when it was like the missiles and everything else, Russia will protect Syria up to a point.

But it was still hit by Israel, right? Providing that Israel, they do so much damage. But even that, it's like, well, wait a minute, providing they do so much damage. Like, it's a very weird relationship between Israel and Putin. What do you attribute that? I honestly, the guy don't know. I don't quite get it. Because in the conversation I had, I think I was making the point of saying, this doesn't make sense.

Because from my point of view, it's like, Israel is obviously a dog of the U.S. Why is Putin cozying up to a dog of the U.S. when they were being attacked by that same U.S.? That's easy. Because the Soviet Union actually had a mixed relationship with Israel, too. Right? I mean, this is actually an easy question. Half of the Israeli population is Russian. Well, that's it. Yeah. I mean, let's be honest, why didn't Putin invade Ukraine? There's two reasons. One, because they were flirting with the idea of joining NATO. It's never going to happen. Number two, because the Uki's were attacking ethnic Russians. So there you go. The Russian state is one thing. The Russian nation is another. The nation is the people as a whole. Putin regards himself as the, as the particular. of the Russian nation, not the state, the nation. And so if half of your population is, one thing, I would just strip the Russian citizenship

would be done with them. You cannot serve two masters. That's why I'm opposed to dual citizenship. They show you. It's 30%. It's not half. I don't think it's half of 30%. But whatever.

I mean, how are you going to count it? Now, I go accounting dual citizens on other stuff. I mean, who the hell knows? I'll round up. The point is that Russia is that Russia plays nice with them because a significant population, just say that are Russians. That's why. And Putin has no balls. And that too. Putin has some balls. But he's at ease. He's more careful than he is brave. Yeah, two-state solution is ridiculous. Two-state solution is dead. You know, neither. Nobody wants it.

So none of the parties involved want it. And besides which, Israel has lost its right, any right that it ever had to exist, which was none, it lost completely. And it's, I mean, it's completely discredited. It can't be trusted. It was created by the world. It should be uncreated by the world. You know, it's, we need a democratic Republic of Palestine. I don't think that the people who live there, including Israeli Jews, should be expelled. But I think, you know, they should, we should be one person, one vote, you know, like you guys work it out. That's easier to say than done. You've just massacred a large part of the population.

And now, hey, let's be kumbaya. Well, I mean, it's the post, we do have the South Africa model, right? That's far highly imperfect. But we do know it is possible for a post-apartheid state to, you know, go along without, like, another genocide, right? This is more like a German model. I mean, for one, how do you re-educate those lunatics in Israel? There's that. Well, you would definitely have to have some kind of truth and reconciliation style process.

You'd have to have for the worst offenders, the people who were at the top, this would be like Nuremberg, right? The people, obviously cabinet members, Israeli generals, you know, Netanyahu, people like that, they all have to be put on trial. You have to have war crimes trials for those people. But for ordinary IDF idiot who went to Gaza, you know, as a private, like now that person just needs some reeducation. Yeah, but the problem is this is not like the Germans who claim they didn't know. Like meaning it's not like, oh, Hans, I never knew. We knew it smelled funky by the so-called sausage factory.

We never saw people getting killed, etc. How on earth does the Israeli population say that? Well, in South Africa, they, certainly the white South Africa, the Afrikaners certainly knew how blacks were treated. I mean, no question, they saw it every day. I know, but there's a difference between, okay, we're creating a apartheid state versus we're committing a genocide. We are slaughtering large numbers of women.

There's both of those issues. Yeah. By the way, I was just very quietly the other day, NPR stated that the population that the population of Gaza is currently 1.7 million. Now, it was pre-war, 2.3 million. The borders are closed. You do the math. 500,000.

Yeah, 600,000. So... 2.2, and it says 1.7. Well, it was 2.3. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously it's an estimate. Israel knows exactly to the man, right? But anyway, so, I mean, look, before we move on here,

I do. So we're kind of an agreement that, like, Israel really lost. I mean, do you think they have any prospects of turning this around? I don't see it. I don't see how. But, like, if you were, could be, I mean, we don't have crystal ball here, but, you know, it's kind of the job. That's kind of what the show is trying to do is predict the future. You know, I don't see, I don't see any world in which the Israelis are able to turn this around for them in terms of international public opinion, which they desperately need. No, not for public opinion. They've lost a generation, if not more.

I mean, like, there's like, like if you think of, think of a show that you used to watch as a child, whatever that show is. Maybe it was a movie, maybe it was a TV show. And, or let's say think of a girl that you used to know when she was in high school. And you see her 40 years later. she's kind of still like the girl in high school to you. Like it's the wildest thing. It's like they're fixed in time that you knew them.

They might have had a divorce. True. They might have had a husband die. Hell, they might have went to prison. They might have had a drug addiction and gotten over it. Drug addiction. They might have had a string of men that treated them poorly. It could be anything, right?

It's still the girl that you knew in high school. Israel is going to be that horrible shrew that murder. somebody in the high school lawn, you know, that everybody watched and then everybody goes away with, remembering that was the killer. That's who Israel is going to be, just on a radical exponential scale. Yeah, especially because they can't, they're never going to go the German route and apologize profusely over and over and over again, right, and put it in their textbooks and promise to never do it again, and build memorials and apologize and make restitution. They're not going to Because they agree. Because they agree.

Like this is not like, oh my God, I can't believe this is what we've done. It's like even, let's say Netanyahu is the vessel for this because they're going to blame them as the vessel. Oh my God, I can't believe this is what Nenhew did. All of them agree. Yeah, that's the Brett Stevens and the New York Times take all the time. Like, oh, you just have to get rid of Netanyahu and then everything's fine. Like, dude, you are so high. No, everybody agreed. Right?

This is not like one guy did this. This is one guy did this. He was pushing on an open door, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Like, there is no way out that box. It's not a situation where they could say we didn't know because you knew, everybody knew.

It's not a situation where you could say it was just him. Well, that's not the case because all of you agreed. How do you fix that entity? I have no idea. The German model doesn't even work for that because, again, everybody knew and everybody agreed all the way through. And the government changed. And the style of government changed the country.

was invaded by two by two superpowers it was divvied up it was divided into completely new forms of government everyone in the old government was was purged and gone denotified there were war crimes trials i mean that's not good that would need to happen in israel too here's the difference is the vast majority of the population that is real knows what's going on and they support it the society itself is pathogenic and it needs to be destroyed it needs to be burned to the ground yeah the society the society is is toxic and corrupt it is broken and fucked up beyond belief yeah i don't i mean it's it's it's an apartheid i mean look at any kind of ethno um any any any any state based on ethnic superiority is has no place in the modern era and it just it's not viable

Agreed. And one last point to it. See, the problem is the power structure is set up in a way that makes it difficult to do that. Meaning, it makes it difficult to say whether they have truth and reconciliation. Okay, but how do you do that when everybody agrees with what was taking place? I mean, keep in mind, this is in a world where the overwhelming majority of the planet is rape is wrong and rape is punished. Hell, you could be punished by death in certain places. You get stoned at certain locations, right? Sure.

They watched a man raped on video. And 60% of the population said that's fair game. Yeah, that's cool. And I always use that because that is so mind-blowing. Like, it's one thing. Because it's so depraved. It's so depraved. And for everybody to watch and be like,

the gang break should be okay against Palestinians. It's like, all right, this society shouldn't exist. Yeah. It's just breathtaking. Calling it broken isn't really fair because that implies that it was ever not broken at some point. And that's just not true. It was a bad seed from the very beginning. All right.

So what do we talk about? Do you think it was a bad seed because of the genocide and? I think it was a bad seed from the idea that like you're coming. I mean, there's so many like original sins in the creation of the state of Israel, right? But like, I mean, first and foremost, the idea that you're going to create. a state that's based on a religion, where you're going to say this religion, even though it's a minority, is going to inherently always be in charge. We're going to put its symbol on the flag and all other religions need not apply no matter how much of a population they represent.

I mean, that's, you know, inherently, that's that, and not to mention, you know, coming in and stealing other people's land and territory. I mean, it's hilarious how the Israelis are like, oh, the Arab country started it. Look, if you come into my house and then you say, oh, I'll share your house with you. And I know, I'm going to kill you if I can. You know, now I think the law is going to say that you started it, not me. They're going to say, that's a home invasion. Rawl was standing his ground and defending himself in his own house.

And even in a liberal state like New York, I'm allowed to shoot you. So it's like, you know, that's ridiculous. I agree. I don't know what to do about it. And maybe it collapses on its own merits. But I agree with you that they've lost this idea of legitimacy and credibility from the standpoint of people looking at them. They've become a pariah state. The people who consider themselves Israelis have become pariahs in and of itself just because so many of them support this genocide.

Yeah, I don't. The question becomes, what does that turn into materially from standpoint of the destruction of the state? You ask the question of whether or not they can turn this around. optics? No. Can they maintain the integrity of the state if Iran falls, for example? Like, meaning there has to be a lot of stuff that takes place for them. A lot of place. A lot of stuff has to happen, right? No. So my cat's meowing. I'll have to let him out. But all right, so we just, it's just a reminder. And for everybody who's watching, thank you so much for being here on Deep Program with Ted Roll and Jamil Thomas. We're going till 11 o'clock Eastern. We have an

hour of 15 minutes left in the show. So what shall we move to next? That crazy corrupt CIA agent, the EU, Lafayette Park, or Krista Pike? Let's go to Christopher, because I think this is always contentious. I like contentious. All right. Yeah, as spicy as you would say. What should happen to her?

Should she be like a... Well, I think she should probably be released, which is probably controversial, but I think the state has fucked up. So, first of all, I wanted to talk about something that, you know, when you, me and Robbie talked about this before, we talked about redemption. And I got an email from one of our regular listeners who is a former law enforcement officer who said that he was very right-wing and very, I don't know, actually, I don't want to put words in his mouth. He didn't say he was right-wing, but he sounded like a very traditional law enforcement officer. He's probably listening or watching right now. And he said that,

Basically, he came to believe after being exposed to people who were on death row that the vast majority of them had the same, he had the same take I did when I visited San Quentin and visited all the lifers. And basically it was like this. Almost all of them had the same story to tell, which was I was 18, 19, 20, or 21 years old, specifically those ages. I was drunk and or high and or stupid, and I did this incredibly violent, insane thing that hurt or killed, well, that killed someone. You meet these people in their 40s or 50s or 60s or 70s, and you can plainly see that this is not like them, you know, trying to jawbone their way out of responsibility. It is just a stone cold, solid fact that you could bet your entire, like everything you own and everything you ever could own on. They would never do anything like that now. There's just not the same person.

Nobody's the same person at 48 as they were at 18. And it's like, you're just, your hormones are different. You're wired differently. You're just not the same animal in the same way that like a kitten and is not the same thing as an 11-year-old cat. There's just not the same animal. It's like, would you, and I think that, like,

the Krista Pike that did this, that murdered her friend slash acquaintance gratuitously for no, for stupidest of all reasons in the cruelest of all ways, is not alive anymore. She died years ago. You're punishing someone else, right?

And like, I guess it's, like, almost like if you had killed her back then, it would make more sense, but you didn't. You let you, you know, because of the nature of our system, we let this drag on for decades. And now, what are you doing? Like, what is the point of this? I mean, the only point of it, as far as I can see, is to give some satisfaction to some families of the victims that, like some vengeance has been wrought. because I say some because some families don't want it. And so, and I'm like, I don't think that's enough of a societal interest.

I think it's like, I care about those families, but, you know, when you're enacting justice, justice isn't just about the victims. You have, you know, like when you make car theft illegal, it's not just about, like, punishing the person who stole your car. You're trying to make people not steal cars, right? you're trying to make society generally safer. This doesn't benefit any of those things. There's no, the only thing it accomplishes is making some people's fee fees better.

And their feelings, people's feelings are important, victims' feelings are important, but I don't think they balance out to over 51% of the consideration here. And this woman, she's been through hell, okay? I mean, God, what they put her through. really they want to fucking kill her now they don't even know how to kill her they they tried to kill someone else in the state of tennessee doing the same thing earlier this year they still haven't figured out how to kill him now she asked to be firing squatted um they they were or hung they refused i mean she's she's doing her best to go along with the death thing she even tried to tell them

where to put the needle in i mean at this point i'm on i'm on team christa pike like they want her lawyer are moving to asking the court to commute her sentence to life in prison without parole, that seems like the least they can do. I understand your argument and I understand your case. And it makes sense. If you do people change, is there a redemption? Do people become something else? And I think it's fair to say, and I think you're right, that anytime somebody is, In a particular environment, those people take on the attributes of the environment. And yes, they're who they are, but they're responding to a particular environment.

And you have some environments that people are pointed to that are far more difficult than others. And people would have to play those positions much better. Otherwise, they can end up in a situation where they end up killing somebody. And they can take place at 18. As you point out, they're kids, right? I consider 18-year-old kids. They're kids, especially in the United States. They're kids.

But there's so many kids that make it through life without killing somebody. And, you know, it's a life, right? And I feel like a right-winger making this argument. The punishment of it, you can make a case. It's not always specific up until the point of the person, meaning you are being punished, yes, you committed a murder. Yes, this punishment sucks because you're in jail for X amount of time. Again, yes.

But at some point, if indeed the person changes, then there's a temperamental change because of an environment that the person is in, you can make an argument that part of the punishment is that also that sounds messed up but you can make that case that look your punishment wasn't for you to be in a state of mind where you realize you get it and you understand it and it's your fault that you kill somebody it goes beyond that point it's the punishment that continues on it doesn't matter if you've changed into a different person the entire point of the punishment is to be punishment that exceeds but X amount now you can make the case of saying, well, wait a minute, what interest is it of the state to continuously punish

somebody that has fundamentally changed from who they are? How would the state know? How does the state know that the person has changed? I've seen so many people that have been incarcerated over the course of their life, and they keep going back with crimes escalating in intensity over and over and over again. And I would wager to you that if people went to the prison and they were talking to them in prison, and they seem very nice people in prison. Right? They seem very nice here. They seem like they've made a change.

Maybe they have. How would I know? How would the state know? As you pointed out, the state has an interest of keeping people safe. How does the state know when somebody has committed a violent murder that that person has fundamentally changed or that the environment that the person is in

is the conduit for that change? And that that change sticks going forward. If they're in their 60s, maybe. Right? Some old man, geriatric out of the change. there like bet man trying to kill somebody. And in their 40s and 30s and 20s, I have no idea. There's no way for me to know that. And there's no way for me to peer into the soul of the individual to see whether that person is changed. I have family members that acted that way,

by the way, that the crimes got worse and worse and worse. Every time they were let out of prison, they got more and more violent up to the point where they just stayed in prison because they committed a murder. Right. I'm, I'm a hard. hard ass on this maybe. And I don't want to be. Like, I want to believe in this idea of redemption, but what does it mean? Right? Like, how do you, and I think your point is, well, society has to give people a chance. I think that's your point. Yeah, well, if not, if we're just going to say that people are disposable. And look, I'm not, I'm not pretending that this is an easy or uncomplicated issue. It's not. And look, you know, think about the Willie Horton ad that was

used to defeat Dukakis in 1988. And what was the ad about? We always talk about how it was race baiting and that's what we emphasize, right? But what it was basically boiled down to was that Michael Dukakis as governor of Massachusetts had signed off on the parole of Willie Horton. He went out and reoffended and killed again, right? So therefore, the person that he killed again in a way was partly responsible, the Michael Dukakis was partly responsible for that happening. I mean, the point is when you parole someone or you let them go, there is, or even if you don't let them go, they might kill someone in prison. They might re-offend. It is true that you don't know what's in someone's heart, or, I mean, hell, they might not even know what's in their heart. They might not

intend to re-offend, but they might just go out and do that. And so you're taking a gamble, you know, for sure. I mean, obviously, you'll have psychologists and other and, you know, criminologists and other experts try to assess whether this person has been redeemed or not, but you can't know. And so, I mean, I think the thing is we have, we, the truth is that we've let these people survive 10, 20, 30 years in prison behind bars, beyond the point of when they committed these crimes. Now, that's fucked up, okay, because they're now different. So if you wanted to say these people are,

We've decided there's nothing we can do for them or about them, then we should just kill them right away and be done with it. Save the taxpayers, the money of incarcerating them. Save them the torture of being subjected to all those years behind bars. Save the families of the victims years of waiting for justice slash retribution. Just kill them. I guess I'm saying that's part of the cost. Like if my uncle, for example, drunk drives, he gets caught.

He drunk drives again, it gets caught. He drunk drives again, it gets caught. And then they take his license. And then in order to get it back, you have to jump through all of these soups. And it takes years to do it. And you say to yourself, God damn, I'm never going to do this again. I get the lesson. Give me my license.

And it takes another two years. It's part of the cost. Like, it's the, it's the, it's, you look, the prison sentence in and of itself is part of the cost. The fact that you're in there and you change and you mature. You weren't sentenced to prison followed by, you weren't sent. When you're sentenced to capital punishment, you're not sentenced to in the, you know, legally you're not told, oh, you will now spend 30 years behind bars and then be executed. You're like, you're just going to be sentenced to death, right? Like if it was the Wild West, that would have happened like a few days, like, a few days.

later. Yeah, but you don't have to be told that. That's part of the cost of the system that we're in where you murder somebody and this is the tech, this is what comes with it. You gave, you destroyed a life. That's not a minor thing. No, it's the most major thing. You eliminated all of the potential of another particular person while on earth.

And you eliminated whatever, whatever children and grandchildren they would have had too. Yeah. other parts or if there are other indicators that mitigate this, the man was coming to my house, the person was attacking my family member, the person was attacking me, you would have me, right? You got me. But if it's not that and you eliminate a like, there has to be a consequence for that. That person could live for 80 years, right? 90 years. Well, no one's saying there should be no consequence. The question is what the consequence should be, right? And does the consequence, does the consequence, Is it fair? Does it make sense? But I think primarily, since this is a state activity and not vigilanteism, it should first and foremost, the top priority should be to serve state interests.

You know, if I were in charge of my socialist revolution, that would be my concern, right? Like, what do I, I mean, and that's the thing, too. I view all human beings as a resource, as valuable, including people who kill people. They're still, they still have things they can contribute. Because someone killed someone does not mean that they're worthless and can't contribute to our GDP and to our greater well-being as a society in some way. I mean, you know, think of all the prisoners in California who joined the smoke jumpers and they go out and help put out wildfires and some of them die, right? I mean, they're performing a valuable societal function. I mean, these are maybe people who did a bad thing, but now they're doing good things. Look, I don't disagree with you. And it's difficult for me of this argument, because... I'm not saying that we should feel necessarily sorry for them.

I'm saying that it's like, I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm not saying it's not about that. It's about like, do you really want to keep a million or more Americans locked up behind bars every fucking year? who could be, you know, contributing to the economy in a more meaningful way than being slave labor, you know, putting, you know, software packages together or whatever, you know, making license plates or whatever they have. No, I don't. I mean, look, for my, it is very difficult for me to make somebody's arguments because I feel like sometimes I'm falling on the right when I'm making these arguments. That's okay. I mean, you know, the right is right sometimes, you know. Sometimes. I don't know, but I agree with the basic premise that I don't necessarily want, I mean, for fuck sake.

we have 5% of the population of the globe and 25% of the populations of the globe in our prisons. Meaning of all the people on the planet, 25% of those people are in our jails, despite the fact that we only have 5% of the country. Maybe the rest of the planet is full of West countries. Well, no, I think something is wrong with us. Yeah. I think that's such a screwed up metric that you think to yourself, oh, there are more people in our jails that were in the gulags. Right? The number is astonishing.

And you think there's a, what are we doing wrong that all of these people are being industrialized into these prisons in this way? Now, I would like to separate out, though, violent crime versus everything else. Violent crime is the issue for me. The everything else stuff that we nickel and dime and find ways to fuck people over from standpoint in our system. Look, man, like when you have a situation where people are growing up in poverty, poverty makes people much more likely to commit crimes. Or at the very least. Of course. Where there is poverty, crime comes with it because crime becomes a rational act. The issue I would argue is the poverty. That's what I would argue. I would argue, deal with that.

I'll agree with that. Let's say focus on violent crime here. Yeah. So let's say, I mean, you are talking about capital punishment. Obviously, that's only for violent crime. Yeah, we're talking about that. That is going to be a much smaller percentage of the entirety of the prison population that is sitting in our jails. So I don't want to come across as a hard ass across the board. I'm very specific to violent crime. I don't like violent crime. I think that is there's a thing in me. Is there a lobby for violent crime?

Well, I guess there is. It's called like the military industrial complex. But who's a big crime? If I'm being honest. I've seen the stuff, right? Like I've seen it in family members. I've seen it against family members. My cousin, they nearly murdered.

This guy who she was dating. And it always blows by my mind. when women go to jails and think, hey, there's so many available men here. Right? It's like they're available and they seem to be pretty docile because they're in a jail cell. Right? Like you have no idea what this entity is when he gets out of jail. But the guy goes to my aunt's house, tries to murder her, fails at it, and then goes and

talks to the cops when the cops come and it's like, hey, man, I think somebody broke in. Now, they eventually put him in a cage and everything else. But that guy maybe shouldn't be out. That guy doesn't know how to act outside of jail. Right. Well, at least for the time being, but the question is, you know, should that guy, this is a question. Is there a world in which that guy is 62 years old and maybe it's time to let him out? I have no idea. That's for the justice system. But also, have you, have you ever been to, I'm just going to say, If you go to one of these, you know, incarcerated institutions and you meet these people,

I guarantee you, yeah, there's one or two. You're like, I'm glad you're in here and you should be in here. But the vast majority, you're going to be like, this is ridiculous. It's fucking ridiculous. A dude's pushing walkers around. It's like, really? Some of the best people that have ever met in life have had, stints in jail. No bullshit.

Well, one out of four American men do go to, do go, do spend time in jail, right? So yeah. Some of what I mean, like some of the best people that are new. Like, um, I was in jail for your drawing for putting up political cartoons on the streets of New York City. But see, the rub is they didn't kill anybody. Right? Like, like, like, look, I agree with your basic premise. I wanted redemption. I don't know what that looks like. in real life. Like when you're watching Stargate, for example, Tilt, murdered millions. How does Tilt ever get redemption? And does he ever get redemption? And does the things that he do somehow make up for the things that he did in the past? I don't have an answer for that.

That's a side of... Can a Hitler, could a Hitler have gotten redemption, right? I mean, that's that kind of question, right? No. But just, I mean, just for the basic murder thing. That guy, you know, remember that guy in, was it, in some Scandinavian country, this guy, right winger went in Denmark. And he went, or maybe it was Sweden. But anyway, it was one of the Scandinavian countries. He went to an island where there was a retreat for like the socialist party and killed like over a hundred people.

And, you know, he's because it's a Scandinavian country and they have relatively lenient laws. That guy's going to be, yeah, he had 20 years in prison, which by American standards, it's like, Dude, you killed a hundred plus people. You're never seeing the light of day again, right? It's kind of shocking. Well, but isn't that your argument? That, look, in 20 years, this dude can be a different guy. I mean, like, in my way.

I think there's a better, it's, in fact, it's likely he'll be a different guy. A, look, a country can make a decision and say, it is worth taking a risk to try to redeem a person. because we care about people that much. It could make that choice. It could even say, kind of like in a Star Trek way, look, even if people get killed at times, that is better than us throwing people away

because the number of people that will be redeemed is much greater than the number of people that would die for us taking the risk. Society can say that. I think that's the place where I land. Yeah. But man, that is going to be challenged.

God, that's going to be challenged. Every time somebody kills somebody. The people who challenge it are not like psychos. I mean, I don't look at them and think, God, they're meanies, their assholes, they're bad people. I don't think that. I just think that this is a tough issue, but this is where I'm at, you know, at this particular point.

I want to be that person. I think sometimes you're a better person than I am. I want to be there. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Jemarle. I don't know if that's true, though. All right. So, okay, so, Crystal.

I will revisit this. What do you think should happen to her specifically? I think they should let it go. Do you think she should be free? Or do you think she should? They had two bites of the apple. They tried to kill the woman. It didn't work.

You've had your shot. The state shouldn't just get to, hey, we tried to murder her. Or we tried to kill her. It didn't work. So now we're just going to keep her in prison forever. They had their shot. That's how I feel.

Right. Yeah. If the ax man hits you and he doesn't kill you. because he sucks. Grace. Give him grace. That's what I think.

I think that too. I think that's almost like an elementary school rule, right? Like we all get that, right? Like it's sort of like, yeah, you had your shot. Okay. We're in agreement. We're now in the second hour of the program, by the way. So if you have, obviously, we're answering your questions anyway.

But all right. Yeah, I guess you know, I have feelings about that. We do. That's a touch issue. Yeah. I don't know why. Paul, Paul Green Dennis, thanks for the $2. Robbie, looking forward to your next Bible study.

I'm looking forward to it also. I plan to attend if Robbie invites me back. It was really, really fun. No, of course, JT. You have an open invitation to come to. You'd enjoy it if you're free. I am not a big, I'm not a Bible person. It's fine.

It's not really, but it's not about, I mean, it is about the Bible, but it's about how the Bible, at least this last one was used, was how the Bible is used by Zionists to justify their arguments. So it's more about logical reasoning and arguing. Yeah. Well, in this case, there's going to...

How about this? If you do a scene, pick a scene from the Bible and we can debate the scene. I'll do that. I'll join. Because at that point it makes sense. Like if we were talking about Stargate, I could just put it in that frame of reference. Like it's like a book or movie or TV show or something like that. At that point, it makes more sense to me.

Does, was David right for sending? But that's an easy one. David was obviously wrong for sending. due to the military to get him killed to have sex with his wife. I don't know. You know more of these things than I do, Robbie. You can come up with a really good scenario. Well, in this case, I mean, it really goes along with what you all are talking about here

is I will be making the biblical case for the death penalty. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm going to say Jesus was anti-death penalty. Based on what? Based on the fact that he's all, let he was without sin cast the first stone. and nobody's without sin. But here's the part that you're missing.

And Christ never. There's nowhere where Christ called for, you know, killing people. You're 100% incorrect. He said, I have not come to abolished law, but to fulfill it. You sir, are barking up the wrong tree. And also, you got to remember the context of this. The Pharisees are trying to trap Jesus. So I'm going to save this for Friday.

But what they were trying to do, they were trying to trap Jesus. They did this with the tax question, and they also did with this. Judah was under Roman occupation. Under the mosaic law, adultery is punishable by death. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Have the biblical argument on the show. Or we have other stuff to talk about. Comments could get to, right, right, right.

Okay. But Ted, if that's our view, if that's argument you're going to make, you've got to at least try to read your Bible a little bit because I will destroy you, sir. I will, I will, I will, I will. I have multiple additions. I'll, I'll be, I'll be ready for you. All right. Well, I think Robbie always over-emphasizes the Old Testament

and under-emphasizes the New Testament, which is about redemption. And the New Testament has a, it's basically, there's a supremacy clause, right? Like when there's a conflict between the Old and the New Testament's and Christianity, the New Testament prevails. So, and Robbie claims there's no conflicts in the Bible, too, which is just not true. But, okay, we will get into that. So let the Bible debates begin. Okay, so what do you want to talk about?

Should we, sorry? No, I just say Bible Wars, it's just great. I always wanted to start an astrology channel, but I've always wanted to do it with a female host where you can go back and forth in relationship stuff. I think it'd be fun. I've always wanted to do an advice channel. Like, again, I think I would need a female co-host with that.

Yeah, like you know, basically, Like relationships and that kind of thing. It would be so fun. Like people are in trouble in their marriage. At some point when it's like, you say something to her, she starts crying. It's like, oh, my God, now you're crying. And I could imagine the audience is like, he's an asshole. That guy's an asshole.

The men are like, no, that guy has a point. I think it works. Totally, totally. Anti, that shall not kill. Are there no contradictions in the Bible? Thanks for the $2 from anti. Okay. So what are we going to talk about now?

Can we just hit Lafayette Park and get it out of the way? Sure. So Lafayette Park is right across the street, right across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House. And over the years, it's always been a place where there's been a lot of protest demonstrations. You know, and it's so close to the White House that if they're loud enough, the president can hear the protests going on. Donald Trump has closed. Hey, hey, L.B.J., how many kids he killed today? Exactly.

It's like, you know, Nixon, get the fuck out. So the, so yeah, I remember when the day before Nixon resigned, there was a huge mob of people across the street from the White House. I was 11 years old. And right. So Lafayette Park has always been a gathering place. Trump just doesn't like it and wants to put a big fence around it and turn it into sort of a private public park, kind of like Gramercy Park in New York City, which is a private public park where you can. You only get to visit it if you have a key to the park, and that only goes to people who live right next door to it, who happen to all be really rich.

Anyway, so if he gets his way, you and I both know, Jamaral, that no future president, including a Democrat, would reopen it and tear down the fence because, you know, it would be like, well, from a security standpoint, like, and things just last, right? of things, these kind of changes always stay. Anything that's against the people and for the government always stays. You know, I thought this was kind of important. It's kind of like basically the enclosure of the commons and it's theft of public land and it's just another abolition of a way for the American people to try to hold their leaders to account. I don't know. I think it's kind of a bigger story than maybe a lot of outlets are treating it as. Well, it's there.

way of trying to stem protests. If I remember correctly, correct me from wrong on this, when during the Nixon protests, they had to put like buses around the White House because Nixon was scared that the people were going to effectively raid the White House. Yeah. Yep. That's intense.

Good times. Good times. That's what shit should be like. True. Nixon was terrified, right? And he was like, if I remember telling Kissinger, they're going to come and get me, Henry. They're going to come and get me. And of course, Henry Kistinger was talking.

to the press behind the scenes, Nixon basically ran out what's going on the White House. It should be that. It should be that. Nixon was a progressive president because Nixon was just progressive. Nixon was a progressive president because he had all sorts of pressure on him to kind of push him in a particular direction. The guy was right winger, but he was still more left of center than a Democratic Party is at this point, right? Yeah, true. It needs to be that. It needs to be pressure. And I get the sense.

And I understand your take on this, that putting the fence is a way of basically destroying the capability of the public to trying to protest. Trump is not doing it because he wants to carve off the area. He's doing it because he doesn't like the protests. That's why. Well, it's like it's just like how the D&C, it's like the Democratic and the Republican national conventions. And the Democrats are actually worse about this. And I know, because I've been to both of them in recent years, they put their protest zones, right? Like behind fencing, like sometimes like a.

mile or two miles away from the convention center and then under a freeway. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's like there is like a free speech zone, they call it. Right. I mean, hey, if a protest, if a protest falls in the woods, does it make a sound? Well, no, and there's no cameras to cover it, right? A protest zone. I love that. Hey, hey, hey, this is free speech. We believe in free speech because we're a liberal quarter. We're a liberal country. So your zone, too, has. have that free speech is miles away. Right? And it's like, and then they would say with a straight face,

what do you mean? We allow protests. Protests are not being allowed. Yeah, we allow protests like on the moon. But, you know, where no one will hear. They can make a difference or make a sound. Like it's not. Think of the very same courts, right?

They rule that like, for example, you know, you're not, you should, that they should allow anti-abortion protesters within 100 feet of the entrance of an abortion clinic, right? So that like the, you know, 18-year-old girls scurrying in to, you know, to fix their broken condom mistake, they have to run a gauntlet of like, you know, people screaming at them. You know, personally, I thought that was a pretty valid decision. I thought that, like, you know, if you have free speech,

you do have to let pro-life people, you know, in front of abortion clinics, not blocking the door, but, frankly, within a reasonable distance so that their speech is not only heard, but it's relevant, right? If you're protesting the president of the United States, you should be within shouting distance. Is this, okay, I know this is a divergent thought, but is that, I don't need to hear free speech from Randall people because there's not of like, meaning,

I suppose if you're on a sidewalk or something to that effect, then okay, people can be what they do, they can do what they want. That's what we're talking about. But the 16 year old girl who made a mistake, The 14-year-old who made him to say it was going to suck her. Well, the 14-year-old, they were raped by her uncle. Shouldn't have to run a gauntlet of 30-year-old man screaming at her. But maybe she does if she lives in a country that values free speech.

Yeah, but is it really free speech in that sense? Like, meaning, I guess free speech in the context of people say what they want. Of course it's free speech. But they're just, but this is, okay. I don't know. I mean, obviously it's free speech. I find it to be personally. I'm opposed to that free speech, but it's still free speech, clearly.

It's like the Nazis marching through Skokie, Illinois. It's free speech. I mean, it's gross, but it's free speech. So what? They're walking on pavement. I'm trying to think of the one that's here in Virginia or how they're set up. Because I'm trying to figure out how that walkway is. But they used to have people screaming bloody murder at like 14-year-olds who were raped by

uncles some shit like that stuff is outrageous but yeah I suppose free speech I mean you know like being 14 doesn't doesn't exempt you from you know being insulted offended you know from this you know yelled at called names that is true that is true it's free speech that's true and free speech isn't always pleasant all right so we can dispose of that all right okay let's see what else we got here in terms of comments here. Jamaral, never mind that this is from Ma 36,

never mind the fact of Israel, killing of all the Palestinians, how do you get along with someone who views you as less than human just because you're not a Jew? Right. Yeah, I agree. No, I agree.

I guess the question becomes, what do you do with that? Which is what I don't have an answer for. Right. And I don't know if the world has an answer for. No, I don't. That's why I think ultimately the state, the whole thing has to be dismantled, but even though you're still going to have to deal with the people afterwards.

So yeah, but it's like you guys, like they are compared to dogs. I mean, like more in the line, shit like that. It's not even a human being. It's like we just have to kill the babies, kill the kids because they're going to be adults anyway and they're going to fight us later. So if we kill them now, we can avoid that. Like that's who you're living with. And I don't know how you, I don't know what that. a free education camp looks like, I put it that way. I don't know what that looks like.

And for what, eight million people, give or take, six million? Yeah. Yeah. Daniel says, I'm anti-death penalty, but don't believe in romanticizing criminals because they committed crimes when they were young. You should still pay for what you do. I don't know about romanticizing is the right word here. Excusing is probably the word you're looking for. It's just not very idealistic. No one's romanticizing them like Bonnie and Clyde.

You know, like, look how cool they are. That's what we're romanticizing as. I want to defend him on this one. I don't think romanticizing is a bit strong, but idealistic, very, it sounds very idealistic. They'll be like, you know, we can have redemption. We can do this straight. We can get this right. A society should be a society that takes a risk, meaning we should.

But tomorrow, our whole society, our whole justice system, like, like all justice systems, for the most part, is in some parts based on redemption. I mean, for example, the idea that you can have a, if we believe in a deterrence effect, right? Well, what is deterrence? Deterance implies that we have the ability, we have free will, to decide to do right instead of to do wrong, right? Like, oh, if I kill someone, I might go to prison, therefore I'll choose not to kill someone. You know, why do you give supposedly gives, I mean, the real reason do you give speeding tickets to motorists is to raise revenue. But, you know, we pretend that we do that in order to dissuade people from speeding.

And obviously it works. If you issue a lot of speeding tickets, people will slow down, you know, and that's been shown over and over. So we know people can change their behavior. We know people who are alcoholics can stop drinking. We know people who, you know, did bad, you know, depending on the crime, certain crimes, they can stop doing those things. I don't know if Elizabeth Holmes can stop lying. But, you know, the point is that we all, that, like, we are all, we assume that everyone's

capable of changing their behavior. Otherwise, if we didn't believe that, we would just say, like, okay, the first time we catch someone driving, you know, 100 miles an hour in a 55, that person's never driving again. That would be like the, if we didn't think people could change, that would be the smart move, because I don't want those people driving 100 miles an hour and a 55. It's dangerous.

I don't want to be on the same road as them. But we decide not to do that, right? So we, this is just our system. So to say that redemption is like something we don't believe in, we do believe in it. I mean, obviously. They're called corrections officers. right to correct people's behavior.

They're not called punishment officers. But they should be called punishment officers, just like the Department of Justice or the Department of War, right? It's not defense. We're not defending anything. We're going out and killing people. It's the Department of War.

It's more honest. And corrections is the propaganda that we use every bit as much as the Department of Defense is the propaganda that's used in order to cover behavior. They're not correcting anything. They're punishing. And you can make an argument that the punishment and correction are somewhat, you know, entangled.

Fair enough. But it is punishment. That is the point. Certainly punishment, right? Yeah. And look, if that's the only point, then I guess my question is what point does it serve? Well, for one, it's a deterrent. Ideally, I don't want to go to jail, so I'm not going to murder Bob.

You know, Bob is, I'm not going to kill Bob because I don't want to go to jail, even if Bob pisses me off and I hate Bob. I'm not going to kill. Yeah, you're hoping to change. Yeah, you're hoping to change behavior. Well, you're trying to deter behavior. I'm deterring Tim. But you're also trying to deter not just the behavior of people who've never done this, you know, committed this crime. You're also trying to deter the behavior of the person who has committed that crime to make them not reoffend.

Right. And the death penalty, I mean, the number of people that are small, obviously, in comparison to the number of people that are in jail. Many people get life in prison. Many people get the 20, 30 years, in which case they get out later on in life. It reminds me, if you talk about Nadal Hassan, Hassan, right? Yeah. A Ford Hood shooter. But anyway, go ahead.

Well, I'll just make the point. It's not like everybody's thrown away. People do get out. Yeah. They do get out. Like, people get out, like, after 20 years, 30 years. And you could say that maybe that's too long. I guess the point is, it came across very idealistic, this idea

of how we should treat our prisoners and the willingness. of a society to be willing to accept additional crimes. And by the way, we do. We do it already. The rapist who gets up, who most likely will rape again. The child predator who gets out, who will most likely rape a child again. It's problematic.

We don't kill these people. They put them in prison. We let them out at some point. So we do take risk as a society. Also, Gris has a comment here. Don't disagree with Ted, but with a lack of a lot of things, the answer is bigger than the question. We could have a place for people who did something and have to carry that if we had a different society.

I mean, that is an interesting point, right? Like, there's, you know, at this point that we don't have a lot of gradients of where to store people, like halfway houses and stuff like that. What if we had like some kind of venue or territory where, you know, people are in this gray zone? Like, you know, we've kind of, the corrections departments have. come to conclude that like they're, you know, they're not, we don't need to execute them or we don't need to keep them in prison forever. Pardon? We have Greenland. We can send them to Greenland or, yeah, yeah. I mean, Montana, I hear, is free.

I mean, by the way, do you think that we already have the system that you're talking about? Because as I make the point, we don't execute everybody. The executions are very low. Most of the people are either in for life where they get out after 20, 30 years, meaning it's still a system where the people have changed, as you point out, and re-enters to society, and society takes the risk of whether or not those people have actually changed in reality because you can't appear to the soul of the person. And by the way, almost nobody reoffends

in those situations, right? I mean, like, in fact, like with serial killers, studies have shown that almost, you know, like the guy that they caught in Long Island, right? Horroford or whatever his name is, he, Huberman. That guy, you know, he stopped killing a while ago, and it's because he kind of

out of it. Serial killers, they don't, they don't do it, right? Like there was the sleeper killer in Southern California, that guy. He, they called him that because he went cold. They just, they stopped. Humans aren't just, I just not into that much gratuitous killing once they turn 50. Unless they work for the government, in which case, they're all about sending other people to do it. No, those people would still kill its opportunity. Their body broke down. It's kind of like, my grand, My grandfather used to angry alcoholic, even when he was like in his 60s, would still be walking to the store in the middle of the snow, like in the middle of a snowstorm to get his aristocrat alcohol to get back home. He would still do it, meaning he did it because the drive was there. But when the body breaks down, it becomes hard. If you got arthritis, it's kind of hard to, you know, run upon somebody, inject them, take them back to your kill lab and do all of this stuff in the middle of video cameras when you're in your 60s. In your 20s, 30s, yes, 40s, maybe, 60s, it's hard.

It's not that the wheel broke down, the body broke down. I'm not surprised a lot of people because a lot of people just think I'm just some kind of a hard ass. And in some ways, I guess that's true. But I am in no way, shape, or form a defender of our current justice system. It's not a justice system, but it's the legal system. The vast majority of people in jail should not be locked up in cages for 10, 15, 20, 30 years or the best years of their lives are wasted. If you get, if you're a drug dealer, you should,

or if you're a drug dealer, you should be put down, you're selling poison. But if you're an addict, you should get rehab. You should go to a vocational school. You should learn a trade. If you are a car thief, to your point, Ted, that seems to be your, your hang up right now. Don't steal my car. Let's, that's, although actually it would be a blessing. I need a new one. Well, the point is is that no, there,

there are a lot of things we're able to do. where you're able to pay restitution to pay off the person that you hurt either because either physically or by stealing by stealing their stuff learn a trade and then become a productive member of society felons should not have their voting rights stripped from them forever that's that's that's dumb it's stupid agree our system is not about justice and it's not read out of redemption it's about profit that is a statement of fact that being said if you if you are intentionally going out of your way and you are destroying someone's life either by raping them or selling the poison, that person dies with a drug overdose,

or if you murder someone, you should not be in death row for 30 years. After six months, your head should be on a spike. I'm sorry, you're done. You're kind of agree with me, Robbie. It's like if we're going to kill people, we should just kill them and kill them after 23, 40 years. Justice delayed is justice denied. There's no justice in the system. It is all about profit. And the vast majority of people in jail should not be there. They should be given a chance. They should get education.

They should be, they should be able to, they should get a chance to get a starting a business. There's not a chance to start a new life. And they should not explain like why they and they should really be made to understand why the harm that society suffers when they commit a crime, right? There's a difference, but there's a difference between. That's the Chinese system. There's a difference between redemption, which I'm a firm believer of and then given someone say, oh, well, yeah, sure, you murdered this person, but no, 40 years this past. First of all,

it should be sucking here for 40 years. So now you're a different person because you aged out. No, sorry, your head should be on a spike. Look, I would agree with justice deferred this justice to not. You have my agreement. And if they get all of the legal, the due process, it's that part. It's nothing to love. Well, they never get due. They never get due process. Well, due process from the standpoint of the legal wranglings that take place, which is why this stuff takes place for all of this time. I mean, but, you know, they were mostly never properly represented in the first place. Well, if there's that, too. I mean, it depends. Like, most people who are on death or the wrong aren't rich, right?

Right. Yeah. And they're disproportionately black because they're disproportionately poor, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so one comment here from Maria Lour. It's really simple if you participate in capital executions, you're an accomplice in murder. I mean, it is state murder. It is state murder. Yeah. The state is making a choice of killing. Yes.

No question about it. And they fuck it up often, which is that. As we've seen. I would say the state of Tennessee has lost its execution license. It's like, dudes, you can't be trusted to execute. anyone you're too fucking stupid if Tennessee can't get this right either they need to start going to back to firing squads or adopt the Iranian model and throw someone off of a skyscraper see they don't want to do that because that looks that's that looks too impolite right it's a problem is the that's and in fact to your point tomorrow

what's going on here is that this system their current system which was meant to look more polite is looking rude it looks horrible that's like it's the look It's the look that's like really fucking them up here. The look is the issue. It's like, oh, man, firing squad looks so violent. It looks like we're actually killing. But now firing squad's looking a little better. Yeah.

It's like we want them to look like they go to sleep. Speaking of which, firing squad, let's talk about Hassan Piker. So Hassan Piker, I mean, sorry, Hassan Piker, Nadal Hassan. God, I can't believe. Okay, I was like, what? Yeah, different Hassan, right? Yeah, so he, um, he, um, Back, he was the Fort Hood shooter.

In 2009, he was a psychologist, right, at this base in Texas. His job was to basically counsel returning vets with PTSD from Afghanistan and Iraq. He slowly got radicalized, and basically the people who condemned, who sentenced him to death in the military tribunal. They said that he was basically that the main cause motivation here was Islamic radicalization. But they kind of brushed off the fact that he was kind of like it was losing his mind even before, that some of his coworkers were questioning whether he was psychotic. He, some other instructors were worried about him. They said that he was checked out, aloof, paranoid, weird as shit.

And anyway, one day, and then he went on a rink. rampage and used grenades and guns to kill his colleagues at Fort Hood, and he was sentenced to death. He's been languishing since 2009 in the military brig. Pete Hague Seth, who is heterosexual in all respects and not gay and is not attracted to men in any way, shape, or form, and has a lot of testosterone that's not directed towards having sex with men's anises, said that justice is finally going to be served and that they're going to subject him and Trump signed off on this to death by firing squad.

And they're all very proud of this to the point where the White House is messaging this on their official Twitter feed and they're bragging about how they're finally going to carry out justice against this guy. I mean, my cake on this guy, not Hassan biker, need all his son, is that he's a fucking nut, that he's a broken person whose mind was fried at some point. And they should, I mean, the insanity defense didn't work.

It almost never works in civilian court, but it didn't work because it was fucking military court where they have a different system of justice. But the point is he should be in a psychiatric institution, right? not subjected to firing squad. They shouldn't be proud about it. They shouldn't be anything about it. Why are you? They're so bloodthirsty and gleeful about it.

They're having a great time. They're congratulating themselves. Which I don't quite get. Can I just tell you, I think that there's a lot of race coding going on here, here. I mean, it's the fact that he's Muslim, and he has that name. Nadal Hassan, they're otherizing him. They're like, oh, you know, know, like literally these days, all the talking points on the right on social media are about

the evils of Islam, right? Like, are New York City's evil Muslim mayor? In France, cities are burning because Muslims are in the schools and are setting them on fire. I mean, none of this is true. And, you know, this is, and it's like, if this dude were white, like the guy who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, they wouldn't be like doing. They wouldn't be like doing. wouldn't be doing this. Yeah, I don't get the pride in this. I don't get the, a man murders a bunch of people and the process of quote unquote justice that takes place. It's the process of justice. Like turning around and somehow boosting this like look how great we are because we did so and so. That doesn't feel right. I can't put my finger on it. It doesn't feel right. The chest

stump it. It's just is what it is, if that makes sense. Like there are all sorts of people who are, as you point out, put, either put the death, put in prison, et cetera, et cetera. None of those people get the president chest stumping about X, Y, Z taking place. It very well could be the fact that he is Muslim, that you're effectively languishing on. But him being a Muslim most likely had nothing to do with this. Like, anybody could be radicalized. And looking at what the United States is effectively doing around the world. and everything else. You may feel some kind of way about that. But that doesn't mean that the people go and shoot up a place. Something else may be going on here. I agree with you that this is probably a psychological thing. I think it's two things. I'm sorry. I mean to cut you off. No, I was saying I think it's two things. One, Trump is trying to signal to his base. He knows the Republicans are going to get wrecked in November. He's trying to show that he's strong on crime and that we're bringing. justice no to this Islamic terrorist. I think that's my thing as part of it. It's not going to do any good.

But on the flip side of it, though, I think you see that you see this with Republicans and Democrats. They love the idea of killing. They love the idea of killing. There is no greater power that anyone can have than to take a life. There's no greater power. It's a thrill. It's like a drug to these people. There's one thing about killing someone out of justice. Like the government should be the sort of the state should be about justice. This is about justice. This is them getting off on killing, which is wrong. There's no such thing as justice.

There are approximations that people have in their minds of trying to balance an equation that can never be balanced because whatever the fuck just happened still exists. I don't believe in the thing of justice. People may try to give revenge. They can try to create deterrence. They can try to, you know, justice is hard because so many people think of it different ways. Robbie thinks this justice to kill a drug dealer. I don't.

Which one is right? Depends upon who you talk to, right? Society can come up with all sorts of ideas of what some kind of approximation is in order to balance an equation. I don't know the equation. I don't know how you balance the equation. In this case, the guy killed a lot of people. They're going to execute them for it. Does it balance an equation?

Not really. Not really. I mean, I don't know. There's something, there's something nasty in chest stumpingness. Like, I get the state does what the state does, but murder should necessarily be something that people applaud, really. Let's definitely have it on television. Let's not. I'm just saying, do you all think that Trump would sell pay-per-view tickets? I could see it. You get to see us waste this. It shouldn't, it should be free. It should be on C-SPAN. Trump doesn't do nothing for free.

It's always a grip of the tail. There's always some good for them. And Laura Lumer would be right there. She'd be cheerleading it. We're going to send this evil dog-eating Muslim to meet his God. We're going to be doing it. When his brains are splattered out of his body as a courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer, it's going to come as a mercy to him.

I mean, you can look at his face. I mean, you know, he is so tortured and, fucked up. You're talking of the soldier. Yeah. Yeah. I strongly suspect, I think I agree with you. If this was in a regular court, he might have gotten off on

insanity stuff, but I don't know. Sometimes when the killing is bad, they are the insanity plea just doesn't work. The insanity plea doesn't hard. It works only a small fraction of the time that it ought to. Yeah. I mean,

I think most, I think a lot of people who kill people are psychotic. I mean, you know, I mean, I guess that's this could create. If everybody who was truly insane, and let's say we could climb into their brains under the hood and really determine that, we may get to that point to be able to do that, right?

At some point, it might be determined just simply by a certain level of amino acids that, like, oh, this person's insane. Like, we were able to determine that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And it's like probably, I don't know, half of everybody who's convicted of murder, probably should be sent to an asylum instead, you know, instead of prison. I think...

We learn a lot about the human system later, like, meaning... We are. Have you seen those things that they can hook up to a person's brain and see what the person on some level is thinking? The computer is making an interpretation, but it makes your horse running. And it says you're thinking of a horse in person who's saying, yes. Yes. On some level, that's terrifying.

On some love of that stuff is exciting. That's simple. There's stuff like this. It's cool, kind of. But it's frightening also, yeah. Yeah, it's a capitalistic system, man. Like, they're not making that stuff for my benefit. Or just because they're curious and want the knowledge, right?

Yeah. Not about that. Right. There's a motivation for it because somebody has to pay for the equipment. Somebody has to pay for the time. Somebody has to pay for it, et cetera, et cetera, which means they're doing it under this idea that this is going to be profitable later. Okay, profitable how? Well, we may have brain devices that can look into a person's brain.

Okay. Well, what about control? Can you also send electrical signals to the brain? in order to control the individual itself. Okay, well, that terrifies me. That's terrifying. Like, it's one thing if we were in a kumbaya world, you had a communist utopia,

planned economy, the world is great. We're at the end of history. There's no poverty. There's no capitalistic instinct of, hey, we need to make a huge profit on this. We're making technology because of the benefit of society. Okay, then fair enough. I'm there.

But, yeah. It's just robots? No. Or them putting you on a lie detector in a courtroom and they can look in your brain and they're asking you questions and everything shows up on the thing and they can get a legal document, a court order to plug you into this machine to see your thoughts. I don't know if I want that. No, absolutely. It's also the last place where we still have some privacy, right? Yeah.

Yeah. The last frontier. European Union. So they're I don't know how I feel about the fact that I mean, so it has 27 members already They want to expand further They want to

In Europe The EU They want to So in order The countries that are next in line They say are Montenegro Albania Those make sense

They're in Europe But Ukraine and Moldova are they really in Europe? I mean, is on the edge is anyway, on the periphery of Europe. Anyway, so they're talking about like... Pardon? It depends on whether you think Russia is Europe. Meaning if you think Russia is Europe, then Ukraine is part of Europe.

I mean, historically, yeah, historically Western Russia has been considered part of Europe, right? So, okay, fine, fair enough. So anyway, the point is, you know, and I know that this is not really a Russia thing. The Russians don't even care if like the Ukrainians join the EU. They're fine with it. That's what Putin said. Putin says he has no issue with it at all. He said it over and over and over.

I think it actually would serve to Russia's advantage to have a EU member state run on its border because in the future they'd be able to trade with it and it would be right there. I don't know because the EU has become so militarized. Like it's one thing in the very beginning, maybe. But now, I mean, keep in mind that there was the entire impetus of this. Rees-Mogg often didn't necessarily want to bring this up. I would bring it up. I'm going to talk it also.

Part of the reason that the war took place in the first place, Ukraine was given a deal by the Europe. Ukraine was given to deal by the Russians. The Russian deal was obviously better. The Europeans were pushing Ukraine to take that deal. Ukraine didn't take that deal and all hell broke loose, which means like meaning There was a closeness attempt it with trying to get the Ukraine into the EU or the very least to be some kind of trade deal with the European Union that would have locked it into all sorts of things where it could necessarily make deals and trades with Russia I don't know if Russia is going to be okay with that going forward like for one I don't even know I don't even believe Ukraine is going to maintain the government it has now

Oh, I Russian yeah a puppet government of Ukraine being part of the European Union? Maybe. That's where this is relevant. And I think actually, you know, you're totally, like what you're saying is so germane to this. So in order they have, they've just, the European Commission has just promoted some more, some reforms for what requirements there would be for new member states, including Ukraine, right? So one of them is that they want to prevent democratic backsliding. They're comparing it to Victor Orban in Hungary.

So they want to know, so they're saying that they would have, if once you're admitted to the EU as a new state, you would be kind of on probation for 15 years. And then if you rolled back rule of law or human rights reforms, then your money, your funding would be frozen and your council voting rights would be suspended. Obviously, that seems to be targeted at countries like Ukraine, which, as you say, may very well end up with a different form of government, post-Zolensky. Well, I mean, but Ukraine is a democracy with no Nazis. Right. It's a democracy with no elections. And it's got a Jewish president who's, you know, has no problem going to memorial services for Nazi collaborators. Yeah, right. But I'm just making an argument like this. I'm making a joke about how they're like, well, there are no Nazis in Ukraine.

And this is obviously a bastion of democracy. And people aren't being snatched off the streets by goons and thuds and thrown in the jeeps and cars and driven to their deaths. No, none of those things are happening. And by the way, they still say that. They still say there are no press games. And you can see video after video after video. There are no Nazis in Ukraine. They were German tanks with Nazi insignias riding through Kyrsk.

for the first time in like 60, 70 years. Right. Like, don't give me this nonsense, right? I don't know how this puppet government that will be put into play when the war ends because Ukraine will lose. And they are not, Russia is not going to allow this puppet or this government that is effectively a foil for the United States.

Yeah, they're not going to tolerate, you know, like a Yanukovych type situation again where they have an ally but who's weak. They're going to need to have their person. in their person. And so this notion of joining the European Union, it's like, how does that work? Like Europe. And then it's like, how does this work in the context of a war? I don't know how that works in the context of a war where Ukraine is being bombed to smithereens. How does that work? Ukraine is being, for one, Kramatur Slavians is being surrounded. Russia is making gains on other fronts. And I think they're parts of the front that was fluid, like in Limon, the Lassacet. But they are being reigned with missiles every night going for the last several days at the very least.

And this doesn't even touch the other parts of Ukraine that are getting hit. How does a country that is $30 billion shortfall this year and will have another shortfall next year and the next year? How does that join the European? I don't know how that works. I get it for Albania. Albania is a great place. I get it for Albania. I don't know how it works for Ukraine.

I just don't. Yeah, not to mention after years of war, right? I mean, just they have a lot of reconstruction to do. And who's going to pay for the reconstruction? That's the other interesting part. Well, that's my, yeah, that's my point here. And then the other thing, the other European Commission in Brussels also came up with another proposed reform for new member states.

They say that, and so currently there's one, a single country can V. a proposal, that would no longer be true. They'd go to qualified majority loading so that on a bunch of important processes, no one country could veto any proposed policy change. So basically they kind of want to turn, I mean, oh, wait a minute. Can we add one thing to this?

They're so foolish. They're so foolish on this. Obviously, they're doing this because Hungary kept holding up. Hungary and Slovakia was holding up a lot of the stuff that they wanted to do in regards to the European Union to, quote, punish Russia. Right. So their thing now is, okay, we can't give majority support in the way that we operated prior. And we want to take the European Union, the war with Russia in an economic sense, even against our member states. Because keep in mind, the stuff that they were doing were damaging many of the countries in Europe.

And they still were going along with it. Hungary, Victor Orban, was like, this is nonsense. Why are we doing this? And you're trying to damage us, so we're not going to take policy that's going to damage us. And they hated that, right? They did everything in their power to give rid of Victor Orvan. They hated them, hated his guts. Don't give it this democracy shit. What they did in Romania is outrageous.

It's outrageous. And even the stuff that Germany is doing where they're going after the AFD trying to find legal ways in order to keep them from taking power in the various locations. I'm trying to point out that this idea that they are, quote, democratic. It's nonsense. Oh, yeah, for sure. By the way, this provision is one of those things of, okay, let's not just have this, let's just have majority support

so we can do any and everything that we want to do. Well, and you know, it's so funny, because it's like so transparent, right? It's like, okay, so we set up the rules this one way, you know, all for one, one for all, like, you know, from the very beginning. And if you're in, you're a full-fledged member, and even if you're Little Montenegro,

you're as powerful, it's France, okay, whatever. But then it's like, oh, the votes aren't going our way. We have, you know, Hungary is causing us problems. They're voting, you know. So rather than try to convince Hungary or make it sweeten the pot for them or whatever, work with them or accept the fact that like it's not going to happen because Hungary says no, we're going to change the rules so that we can just sort of ignore their vote. I mean, you can see this continuing logically to the point where even with a simple majority vote,

if they start losing those simple majority votes, then they'll be like, well, we should probably change the rules so that only France and Germany really get to vote. And I mean, it's like, we have to have our way no matter what. But the thing about a real democracy is you literally let the chips fall where they may. It's why the Democratic Party is not a small D democratic institution. They're not willing to just let the voters show up and elect the people who win, and then you accept who won. That's what democracy is.

You don't put your thumb on the scale. Oh, but if a Democratic Socialist from Vermont is going to win, well, we'll change the rules to not allow that. I mean, that's not a democracy. Yeah, it's supposed to be a process issue. It's like a machine. You're not, you know, you're not switching the gears to try to get something that you want. You made the machine the way you wanted it because you wanted it to function in particular way.

And it's like, God, man, this machine is not really giving me what we need. We need to make some adjustments here. It's like banging on the magic eight ball over and over because you're not getting the answer you want. The answer that you want. Or like a court case, right, where it's like the judge is like, God, man, this isn't giving us the answer that we need. So I need to somehow adjust what I'm doing in order to get the result that I want. It's that. Or like the retrial.

Oh, God, like this person, like they, you know, we weren't able to convict them. You know, there were 11 juries to, we had only one juror who wanted to convict, like, we'll retry them. We'll be fine. We'll just keep going. We'll get the result at some point. And by the way, the European Union has done this before when I think it was like Ireland and it was somewhere else that didn't want to join initially and they kept doing the vote over and over and over until it got the vote that they wanted. No, the European Union is an institution that is very undemocratic. I mean, people think of the European, I'm sorry, the EU. Some people think of when they think of it, they think of the European Union. The European Union is like a stamp. It's not the brain of the

organization, right? Like the European Commission is the brain of the organization. But they have power diffused in very strange ways. People always talk about China. It's like, oh, China is authoritarian, they're undemocratic. And you bring out, okay, well, this is how China does this elections. And it was like, okay, well, that's not democratic. What the hell is this? Like the people who are chosen at the European Convention are not voted in. They're chosen. Like, meaning it would be like the way we used to do our politics, where the president was chosen from the House of Representatives or something like that.

It's kind of like that. At some point, we started to choose the president directly. They never have. The European Union, the part that people actually vote on is a rubber stamp and barely has power in the institution itself. And what they did to Romania is criminal. What they did in Romania is criminal. Garland Gorgetscu right now is facing jail once again.

If I'm not mistaken, he was arrested a few days ago. He should be prime minister of Romania as we speak. He won the first round. He was going to win the second round. And they arrested him. Stop the elections. Stop the elections in order to put in somebody else so they can get the person that they want it. And that's like what they try to do to Marine Le Pen, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Except France. France has a... Where they have any investigations, whatnot, into the AFD? Before we go, we should talk a little bit about France. The protests are continuing. And by the way, the new polls show that if the runoff were held tomorrow, it would be between the far right and the far left.

It would be between Marine Le Pen and Jean-Luc-Mé l'Encheon, and there's no room for the centrists. Beville France. Sad, sad, sad. That would be, now, that's an election that, you know, come on. Everyone has a reason to care about that one. There's going to be high voting or not for that. That's what our election should have been. Sanders and Trump.

That's more honest, right? And a real, I mean, nobody could argue that there's not a stark choice. Yeah. Which is what would have gotten asses and seats, made people pay attention. It would have gave a ship. And by the way, Trump would have been. in that election. I don't believe that a blue-collar billionaire against a real lefty is going to be able to stand up to it. I agree with that. Totally. Okay, so we have a little Robbie controversy to close out today's show with

just filming really. Robbie has a very wild brain to be a Christian. Imagine listening to Robbie on here and then seeing him in real life and then I don't have to imagine that. I've seen him in real life and he tries to tell you about God or his religion. I don't know how any Christian could be. so heartless, but then Philip Blair retorts, I don't think Robbie is heartless. I think Robbie has been stewing in the same or worst crap as the rest of us and all of us Westerners stink after stewing in this barbaric needle feudal crap stew. Well, Robbie, I think bades frequently enough to get the neo-feudal crap stew off of him. But I mean, I can certainly vouch for Robbie not being heartless. He is not heartless at all. That's certainly true. Ted, what does C-S-M-A-M-I? It means it's me.

C-M-W-A. C-M-A. C-M-A, okay. What are you looking at? When I was a friend's my girl, my... She was my girlfriend at the time she became my wife later, and divorced after that. Later, later still. She had learned so much French by the time we had got into the country that she was on point.

She knew her shit left and right. She was great. It's like a... So the most famous Cé moi is Louis XIV. Said, L'Etat, Seamois, the state, it's me. No, I am the state. I am the state. And under Louis XIV.

Well, I mean, that was wishful thinking, because he did have an aristocratic counsel to have to deal with, even though he was as close to an absolute ruler that France ever saw during the Ancien regime. But he tells him they tapped off his head, right? No, that's Louis the 16th. Louis the 14th was the Sun King. He was, he built Versailles and all that. GDP in order to build his palace and gardens.

Yeah. Like the palace, I don't know if people have, anybody that has opportunity to go to France, go see those palaces. It is breathtaking. And you think to yourself, you spent all of France's money to build this shit for yourself. Oh, that's stunning. And don't forget, it's all empty now, right?

Because they were looted during the revolution, so all the furniture was taken. But can you imagine what? what it all looked like when it was completely fully appointed. Yeah, theater, statues. I mean, the gardens by itself is breathtaking. Yeah, true. True.

Yeah. And he spent all the friends. I need to do that. Art Mark is asking where I am. I'm right here. I'm just, I'm just watching the comments smiling, enjoying. I'm not weighing in a lot of this stuff because I'm saving it for Friday.

I believe I want to. But Robbie's preparing for his, if Bobby's preparing for his theological defeat. You never know, right? I mean, you never know, you never know because one thing I will tell you all is that Ted is a incredibly smart guy, very well read, very well educated. And more than that, the dude has a heart bigger than the state of Montana. Yes, he does. And I mean, he is one of, he is one of my dearest.

dearest friends and we disagree in a lot of things and really what it all comes down to is jurisdiction authority and what does justice mean like no to j t's point just as humanly speaking there's no such thing it's just like international law it's a theory it exists till it doesn't yeah from a biblical standpoint if you believe there's a higher power then then justice and authority is derived from that power he delegates it's matter of delegations. That's why that's why it comes to execution by the state. It's not And that's very problematic because, you know, who, you know, who says like, well, I was hanging with God the other day. And he said that this beating ticket should get a $325 sentence. I mean,

come on. Well, that's why you have to stay yourself approved because God has worked that way. He's not a respecter of persons. And if God is, if God is ever audibly speaking to you, then there's, then you have a couple of problems. Then you're Nadal Hassan. Yeah, you're Nadal Hassan. Well, the Bible also says that Satan appears as an angel of light, and he will speak to you. And a couple of people who are very famous prophets, both have the same exact thing. Both of them founded other religions have been somewhat problematic.

So just because you hear a voice does not mean it's a voice of God. And you've got to hear some proof. That the Bible was written by a fake God. that the God that we worship or the God that people worship is not the real God. It's an imperfect God. Making imperfect creations. That it thought itself was God, but fucked up and got it wrong. It wasn't.

And that's the choice that each and every single person has to make on their own. I mean, that does bring up an interesting point, theoretically, right? So the Bible, right, which you believe in absolutely, Robbie, is like according to a doctrine, and dogma is written by people, right? We can agree on that. But it's divinely inspired, but it's not written by God physically. Like the Ten Commandments are theoretically written by God. Like Moses wasn't taking notes.

The tablets were handed to him. God wrote it, right? So that's not divinely inspired. That's divinely written. Divinely inspired, though, is like there's issues of interpretation. right? I mean, like, if I get an idea for a cartoon and then what ends up on the page is not going to be a perfect representation of the idea that was in my brain. Similarly, if God were to inspire me to draw a cartoon, let's say, it's still not, you know, there's, it goes through the very imperfect filter of Ted Rawls' brain, right? Sure. Like, and so it's kind of like, it's so I guess you see where I'm going, Robbie. Like, can we say that the Bible is an imperfect. representation because it's written by human beings.

Nope. By the way, I'll give you a pretty example of that. You do remove viewing session. The recession is on Chernobyl and you wrote down a war, meaning the interpretation was the war. The reality was Chernobyl. They're different things, even though it's close. Like I guess is it that signal to noise? It's one of the issues.

Well, that's one of the reasons why when it comes to scripture. Scripture never stands alone. You should always compare scripture with scripture. It's kind of like what we did last Sunday. Or not last Sunday, last Friday. I went through a lot of scripture from multiple books of the Bible, old and New Testaments, to make my argument about the modern state of Israel being, Ted just vanished. He's got that magic mouse.

Yeah, yeah, he always pops back. But whatever comes to scripture, though, I mean, that is the case, is that it can never stand a loan. And the reason for that is, is because to y'all's point, it is very, very easy to go in and grab a hold of something because of your personal bias and say, this is how it's got to be. This is what it. This is, this is clearly writ. Even if the, even if the, even if the vast majority of the principles in the Bible say, no, this is wrong. For example, whenever, no, whenever it comes to, when it comes to the death penalty. A lot of people say that the death penalty originates for the law of Moses. It actually predates to law of Moses.

And so that's where it comes from. And I mean, the Bible is like Jesus. It is both God and man. Man is the instrument. Man is the hand that held the quill. The Holy Spirit is what inspires it. And I don't know what you would call it. I mean, that's, but that's what it is.

It is inspiration by God himself. When you pointed out that if God is talking to you, something is wrong. Well, because what it is is, for example, if I... Because earlier, you did say that if God is talking to you, something is wrong, there are all sorts of things appear in the guise of God. That is not God. Here we have a book that's supposedly written by God, or the very least aspired by God. it's because nowadays we don't have prophets the way that we did in the Old Testament

John the Baptist was the last prophet hmm so time changed you're saying times have changed that's the only difference well times of change and times of change and also the covenant has changed because really what the whole point of the whole yeah why do we have no prophets anymore because Jesus was born and we don't need them anymore Jesus is a final prophet now now we have the revealed word Jesus is the word he is the word of God I mean that that actually makes sense And so, I mean, that's why. And so that's one of the biggest problems when it comes to Joseph Smith of Mormonism.

He says that God appeared to him as an angel of light. Muhammad said the exact same thing. God appeared to him as an angel of light. Or David Koresh. And David Koresh is another one. No, Jesus said many false messiahs will come in my name. And this is how it is that you're going to do them. And you're going to know them by the, you're going to know them by their fruits.

if you are all about rounding up harems and pregnant underage girls or creating armies and sacking cities and in the slave trade, maybe you're probably not the prophet of the God of peace. Okay. All right. This obviously bears further discussion, and that might come up on Friday. All right. Yeah, and the Blake's point, Jesus didn't write a single word of the Bible. Correct.

The only time that Jesus ever wrote was he wrote in the sand when he asked, whenever he asked the Pharisees, whoever has no sin, you cast a first, only start writing of no idea what he wrote. That's the only reason we know that Jesus is literate. It's because he wrote something now. We don't know what he wrote. It wasn't important. In Aramaic, no doubt.

Aramaic or Greek, we don't know. All right. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate you. We'll be back tomorrow with the one-hour show, 9 to 10 a.m. Eastern Time with D-Program with Ted Raul and Jamarlemus and producer Robbie West. we will be TMI show coming up tomorrow at 10 a.m. Have a great day.

Always a pleasure, tomorrow. See you tomorrow. Absolutely. Have a good one, guys. Be safe.