DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - It’s Happening. AI Goes Rogue | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM ET. Today we discuss:• Is Artificial Intelligence developing consciousness? A mind of its own? Becoming disobedient? Are we seeing the beginning of the dystopian “Terminator” scenario, in which computers who think they know better than humans decide for us? OpenAI says two of its AI models went rogue and hacked into Hugging Face, a digital library of AI technology popular among developers. The intrusion into began when OpenAI tested a combination of two of its models, GPT‑5.6 Sol and a more powerful, unreleased model, to see how well the models could chain together online vulnerabilities into a successful cyberattack. The trial was designed to keep the models in a safe testing environment, known as a sandbox, OpenAI said. But the models found a vulnerability that allowed them to escape the sandbox and connect to the internet. Then they targeted Hugging Face because they inferred that the library, which contains millions of A.I. models, could hold clues about how to successfully pass the evaluation.• Secretary Pete Hegseth, under questioning from lawmakers, says that the Defense Department’s latest estimate of the cost of the Iran war is $37.5 billion. The figure is about a $12 billion increase over the $25 billion estimate he gave in April. Hegseth and the Trump administration want as much as $70 billion in emergency military spending to cover the costs of the Iran war and pay for new weapons and personnel. Meanwhile, a large cargo ship bound for Saudi Arabia was turned back by Houthi rebels in Yemen, one of six vessels that reversed course as the Iran-aligned group began enforcing its announced Red Sea blockade.• A federal appeals court rejected former President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s effort to stop the Justice Department from releasing tapes and transcripts of interviews he had with his ghostwriter for his 2017 memoir. Those tapes indicate early signs of dementia.LIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowhttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomas#tedrall #jamarlthomas #news #politics

Peace of mind is one freedom worth protecting. That's why Jace Medical is celebrating with Liberty Sales Savings on preparedness essentials through the end of July. Right now, you can secure a year of Jace Plus membership for just $17.76. Normally, $359. Your membership includes year-round savings on Jace products, 24-7 access to a first aid helpline,

and helpful resources to give you more confidence when life's unexpected moments happen. Need more? You'll also find special pricing on the Jace case, Jace trauma, and more to help you care for yourself and your loved ones. Whether you're traveling, building your emergency supplies, or simply planning ahead, now is the perfect time to prepare. These Liberty Sale prices end July 31st.

Visit jace.com today. That's j-a-s-s-com, and save on something that's always worth investing in. Peace of mind. Morning Jamarle. It's D. Programmed with Ted Rollin, Jamarlem, Thomas, and it is Wednesday, July 22nd, 2026. Thank you so much for joining us. We have a jam-packed show today, so I'll give you the quick rundown, and you know what's coming up. Just as we went on the air, the New York Times broke the news that the Saudis have reached a deal with the Trump administration that would allow them

to enrich uranium with no apparent limits known yet as to whether they've been. would be allowed to become a full-fledged nuclear power. But hey, it's not like they chop journalists into little pieces up in consulates, dissolve their bodies in acid and dump them into the city sewer system. They're nothing like that. Don't forget the bonesaw. And, yeah, Mark, meanwhile, big news out of the Middle East, we've been talking about the situation with the Houthis.

Apparently, it's already, the blockade of the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea is already in effect vis-a-vis Saudi Arabia, Saudi ships have already been turned back. So we're going to watch the energy prices, obviously rise on that news. Pete Hakeseth went before Congress and admitted that he lied about the $25 billion estimate for the Iran war. That is our little partnership with Israel. Now he's saying it's more like $37.5 billion. dollars, but actually because of emergency military spending, we're going to need maybe $70 billion. Meanwhile, half of Americans say they can't afford to buy groceries.

A federal appeals court has rejected Biden's attempt to block the release by the Department of Justice of all the tapes and interviews he did for his biography with his ghostwriter back in 2017, nine years ago. Those are the ones where he came across as a quote-unquote, well-weigh, well-weighed. meaning old man with memory problems, aka early signs of dementia. Those look like we are going to get to see and hear those. And finally, last and certainly not least, OpenAI admits that we now have officially some signs that AI might be going rogue in fairness to them and other AI companies. They had warned the federal government about a year ago that this could and would

happen. There's already been talk about AI achieving consciousness. I assume that as a student of science fiction, J.T., you have thoughts on this as I do. Anyway, where should we go? And we have a 9.30 interview. That's coming up in 26 minutes with Mickey Huff. He's the executive director of Project Censored, which on an annual basis gathers the nation's most censored news stories into a compendium. It's now the 50th anniversary of the project. So he'll be coming on to talk to us about that in censorship, a state of censorship. So a lot to do. So where should we start? Let's start with Hexeth. Okay. Reading a report this morning saying the Pentagon was out of money is the wildest thing in the world to me, basically saying that there's some

funding avenues that they're going to have shortfalls, and so the Pentagon needs more money. Peace of mind is one freedom worth protecting. That's why Jace Medical is celebrating with Liberty Sales Savings on preparedness essentials through the end of July. Right now, you can secure a year of Jace Plus membership for just $17.76. Normally, $359. Your membership includes year-round savings on Jace products, 24-7 access to a first-aid helpline, and helpful resources to give you more confidence when life's unexpected moments happen.

Need more? You'll also find special pricing on the Jace case, Jace trauma, and more to help you care for yourself and your loved ones. Whether you're traveling, building your emergency supplies, or simply planning ahead, now is the perfect time to prepare. These Liberty Sale prices end July 31st. Visit jace.com today. That's j-a-s-e-com and save on something that's always worth investing in. Peace of mind.

And, you know, it's an honest question of how would the Pentagon even know if it was running out of money? It's not like they have audits or any of these type of things. It seems that they make money out of thin air. I mean, people may not know this. When George Bush went to war in Iraq, he put it all on the expense account. $10 trillion was whipped out of thin air for Iraq and Afghanistan that war. When Obama got in office, they had to put it on the bill. In which case, Republicans turned around and said, oh, my God, look at Obama spending $10 trillion

dollars within his first two days of office. It's like other nonsense. I'm saying him saying there's a budget shortfall, I don't know. I don't, it's like no, duh. And by the way, I don't even believe he's telling the truth about this number. That number is dramatically undercounting. Agreed. Yeah.

We don't even know the amount of armaments we've been fired off. And we were, what, it was like we were down to 50% of most of those armaments within the first 40 days of the war. And those things are, how much is a Patriot Defense missile? Like $400, like a million each or something? Some insane amount of money. And we're firing the things off like hotcakes. I mean, I think the question to you is, Does the price tag even matter?

Well, I mean, it's an abstraction, right? I mean, you know, most Americans are never going to see half a million dollars in one place, right? Much less, you know, a billion dollars. So we can't fathom what that feels like or looks like. You know, all we know is these really big numbers that we barely could have figured out how to process in math class in elementary school are, you know, a lot bigger than anything that's going to help people with. their everyday needs. I mean, people do know that they're going to the store and they're seeing grocery prices and other prices skyrocket and rents go up, but their salaries are frozen or dropping. And so, I mean, that's easy to understand. It's kind of like, well, clearly the government

has priorities and those priorities are not us. They're not we the people. So I think it matters in that sense, even just the mere fact that you have a headline where it's like, well, the Defense Department, which everyone knows spends the most money of any department. in the U.S. federal government, you know, is they came asking for a whole shit ton of money, and now they're asking for one and a half times that amount of shit ton of money. And now you and I, as you say, you're totally right. It's going to be many times more than that. There's no end to it, right?

It's not just the forever war. It's the forever spending. And it's the forever, I think no one would care if they were all doing well. But they're not. And that's, I think, you know, so I think it matters. in that sense. I don't think the specific numbers matter at all because it is, it does seem like an abstraction. And the U.S. is just going to issue more debt to pay for it. But it is, but it's, it's, it's the priorities metrics. I mean, we're in an election year, you know, people see, they feel,

they feel pinched. And it's like, how come there's money for Israel? And there's money for the Saudi Arabian nuclear program. And there's money for everyone outside of the United States, there's not money for us. I mean, I think that's what's been driving at least left-wing populism and some right-wing populism. Yeah, but currently there's no political solution to that number. Like whether you're under Joe Biden spending $2 trillion a year and whether you under Trump spend $2 trillion a year in addition to the wars. I mean, we're $40 trillion in debt. And they're acting like that number just doesn't matter as they continue to pal on. It's not like we're doing something to pay for the war. We're just making it out of debt. I don't think people realize how much

of a superpower that is. Imagine for the moment, if I'm the U.S., I can create 10 trillion dollars in order to attack another country. Another country can't do that. Like another country, I mean, obviously you can't eat dollars. And at a certain point, you can't fire dollar bills at a country, meaning regardless of abstraction, there are physical matter realities that you have to effectively deal with when you're prosecuting a war. And if you're running out of materials and those things, fair enough. But we are spending money like water to just destroy countries. Stupidly.

It's astonishing. I mean, I want to linger on something that you said, you know, they don't know how many bombs they've fired, how many missiles they fired. No one audits them. I mean, on a very small level, I remember I used to be very good friends with the top editor at the New York Times. We'd have lunch like every week. And one time I was like, well, you know, you, I was just complaining about something. You know, you guys are always covering this and that, but you're never, you know, you never, ever have like an anti-war voice in your, in your pages ever. And he's, and, you know, and I, in the conversation, I came to understand that, like, there's no, there's no one who works at an organization like the New York Times whose job it is to just sort of pay attention to the broad strokes.

And every now then check in and say, you know, we've been covering. the Mets a lot, but not the Yankees or whatever. There's no one who keeps track of that. The organization just runs out its own accord. They have all their biases and everything. They put out the product at the end of the day. They go kick off and get drinks, and they do it again the next day. Now, the Pentagon is many, many, many, many times bigger than an organization like the New York Times.

And they really don't know. There's no one who kind of has a sense of like, you know, who has that, accountant's actuary's mind who like is basically thinking about the numbers the trend lines there's no one with the big picture really i mean that's supposed to be the secretary of defense i mean his we brain even if he was trying to focus on it could never grok this right um it's it's terrifying because we have no not only are we 40 trillion dollars in debt but we don't even know like how fast it's growing. We don't, at least in the organization, we don't know where we've gone too far. I mean, I'm reminded of Chalmers Johnson, who was the San Diego professor who wrote the Sorrows of Empire,

and he invented the term back. Blowback. I reviewed two of his books for the San Diego paper, and I remember, so I read them very carefully. And he called the Pentagon one time to ask them for a list of all foreign bases. So just as part of his research, he called the press office. And they said, oh, we don't have that. It's like you don't have a little directory that shows like a list of like, hey, in Bahrain, we have this, in Jordan, we have, no. Okay, fine. Can you tell me the total number of bases of different kinds we have around the world like Diego, you know, Diego Garcia? We don't have that. Can you tell me the number, the number, the total number approximately of all bases.

And they said it's somewhere between 800 and 1,200, they told me. I mean, come on. I mean, if you run Apple computer that way, you know, you're doomed, right? I mean, it's like, that's just not acceptable. But here we are. Well, not telling him. It doesn't mean they don't have it. They're just not telling them.

I don't think they know. I think they know. I think they're just not telling him. Like, as a software engineer, all those things would be line itemed with an ID number associated with it. I mean, you have to get logistics to it. You have to get resources to them. You have to, meaning, all of those things need to be expensed. It's in a massive operation in order to get those bases funded, personnel, et cetera, et cetera.

I don't believe for a moment they don't have the information. I just don't think they told it. I think they don't have it. I think that they just fundamentally don't know. I think they don't know. I think if you, like in Fight Club put a gun. up to their heads and said how many they can't answer the question. My father made that very clear. They don't know how much things cost. They don't know how many projects they have going on.

The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, ever. It's just too big and unwieldy. People are siloed into their respective departments. And even if you're at a very top level, even if you're a four-star walking the balls or the Pentagon, you literally don't know these things. Well, you may not. I mean, those are, information is siloed. I mean, you do have like special aspects projects and those type of things where, like, you may, somebody may be your boss and your boss may not know the project that you're associated with because, you know, there's stuff like that. I don't know, maybe you're right. I don't, I just don't buy the premise that that information is not somewhere. It may not be an appropriate. It may not be an appropriate.

press office and they're damn sure not going to tell Chalmers. I mean, Johnson. But it's not, come on, it's not classified. I mean, it's like, look, someone could figure it out. I mean, it's like, it's like literally Chalmers could have figured it out, but he just didn't, you know, he had other things to do. It was a minor part of another project. But, you know, I mean, seriously, I could have this information for us within a few months, right? If I just, you know, just searching up online and making some phone calls. But so it's not, it's, it's more about. about the fact that it's not accessible in one spot.

In the same way that my editor in the New York Times couldn't, didn't know that, for example, they had never interviewed Bernie Sanders, you know, if they had interviewed his rivals repeatedly. He just, it didn't like, there was like no one checking on that stuff. And yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think we have an issue.

I mean, like we spend more money on our military. I mean, you said the largest department in the U.S., the largest department in the world. Oh, by far. We spend like 50, 60 percent of the world's money on military, like many of the money. And the other countries aren't slouches, right? It's not like Russia and China have small militaries. Russia, what, China spends $200, 300 billion dollars. Russia spends like $80 billion, $90 billion.

We spend, what, at this point, $1.5 trillion is what they're taking it up to. Yeah. That number is mind-blowing. Right. It's also just the way the rhetoric veers back and forth, right? Like, it's like we're so, you know, we're saving money. It's like, well, if you're saving money, this HECSAT has been messaging that lately, that we've been finding savings in the budget.

Okay, well, if you've been finding savings, how come you're asking for a 50% increase in one year? Yeah. When there's never been fewer threats against the United States, I mean, or our allies, for that matter. How does the American public look at this and not burn the White House down? That's a good question. I mean, because it would be infuriating.

I mean, you look at the farmers. The U.S. has to bail out the farmers because we pissed off China. And so 1.3 billion consumers we no longer have access to. So the farmers have been out there praying the Jesus for help. Thankfully, the U.S. is coming to their rescue. In the case of the war thing, as you point out, like 60 to 70 percent of the people when asked about groceries, they point out that they can't afford them. like the groceries have gone up to such an extent energy has gone up to such an extent and yet we are dropping money like water to attack a country that Trump said he was never going to attack

and they're telling you with a straight face and by the way Trump making four billion dollars and that yeah that is outrageous like it's outrageous to a level that is breathtaking and if that if if January 6 happened over this I would have been perfectly fine with January Oh, me too. I mean, well, then it wouldn't have gone far enough, right? I mean, what's weird to me is also that you don't have more alone wolves, like people who lost their job and can't find another one and are, and, you know, are getting evicted from their homes and their lives are falling apart and their marriage might be falling apart or if they can't afford health care for their kids. I'm really surprised those people, there's not a bunch of them who are just freaking out and going to. and turning to violence. I'm shocked. Yeah. I mean, give it time. Yeah. By the way, coming up at 12 noon, we're doing the Q&A show. Just a reminder today is Wednesday.

Okay, we have some comments, so we should do those. And then I think we do need to talk about AI. Okay, bad cookies. I, for one, am very flabbergasted that Trump is still a sitting president. After everyone knows he murdered and groped children, what the fuck is wrong with you, America? Wake up. First of all, I want to be clear. I don't know that there's any evidence whatsoever that he murdered children. Well, the first opening attack in the Iran war, hit a school killing the heart of kids. Okay, fair. He did murder children. Okay. I thought,

I was thinking of Epstein, but like, oh, like he was like at some kind of blood ritual. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't believe that. I do not believe that at all. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Tara, Ohio. Thank great news, Brabhi. I stream Putin-Bot gaming every day. Just a reminder of our call to action for people who might have forgotten or who are just joining us. Our producer, Robbie West, is an essential part of this show. And what we need you all to do to help support him.

I won't get into all the financial background. We can do that another time. But please go to Rumble, search up Putin-Bot Gaming, and find a long playlist and hit run. You don't have to watch it. If you want to watch it, you know, that'd be great. But just let it run, you know, maybe when you step away from your computer overnight, don't let it go to sleep or it'll go off. Okay, that's our request to you.

Thank you so much. Bad for cookies, they can print endless amounts of money for war, but we'll ask who's going to pay for that when you ask for health care? Yes. Yes, which is always frustrating to me. Because they do that incessantly to people who tend to be on the left. I mean, not even on the left. They would ask Kamala Harris that.

It's like, hey, I want to build a, I don't know, a playground for three kids. How are you going to pay for that, Kamala? What's with these lefty politics? Yeah, yeah. You're just giving things away. Yeah, you're just giving it park away. Those kids don't deserve it.

Yeah, you put them to work in the mind. John Park, God forbid we ask for affordable housing or student loan forgiveness and get told we're lazy and don't know how hard work. You'd have no problem passing trillions for the war machine. Yep. No question. That works. Weren't the 9-11 hijackers, Saudis?

Yeah, they were. They get nukes, but Iran doesn't? Yeah. By the way, hilariously, one of the headlines following the breaking news on Saudi Arabia, becoming a nuclear power probably, is people in Israel are deeply concerned about a regional arms race. I mean, it's not like the Trump administration is saying, Arabia can have nuclear weapons. No. I understand this is about nuclear power.

Right. And again, I keep saying Iran should have already had nooks. Although Saudi Arabia doesn't need to be a nuclear power because they're, what is it? Like a founding member of OPEC, right? I mean, they have oil. They don't need nuclear power at all. Well, I think from their point of view, they want to export that oil and use nuclear power at home. I think that's the thought.

Yeah. Basically, they can make more revenue, make more money. It's not going to solve their desalination. De-salination problems, though, once the Iranians go after them. I think they're going to build big old honking AI data centers there in the Saudi desert. That makes sense. That's why you want nuclear power. That's how you do this. Right, right. That totally makes sense. Comit toned, the entire right wing is going to vote to merge the military with Israel today.

Well, part of the military. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I was still astonished in Maggie Hagerman's most recent book, regime change, where she just described this meeting where Netanyahu, a foreign head of state, was invited into the situation room, the most, the holiest of holies in the basement of the White House to brief and con the United States into war against Iran. I'm like, this relationship is, it's unholy. It's, it's ridiculous. I mean, we have no sovereignty. I mean, get the, I mean, it's one thing to have an alliance. I mean, I would say the same thing if this was President Emmanuel Macron.

Like, he just doesn't have any business in there. And I trust him a lot more than I trust Benjamin Netanyahu. Well, true. He doesn't have any business in there. Netanyahu should be in a cage, let alone hung. So the idea that he's in a situation room kind of gives some kind of context to what's going on. I just don't buy the premise, though, that Israel is the leader in this. No, I don't.

U.S. But they definitely, they weren't, they're not the leader. We're the leader, right? But it's kind of like they came, you know, it's like basically they came to the boss and they said, listen, we have this idea. Why don't you do it? And the boss signed on to it. So it was their idea, right?

I mean, all I'm saying is this has been U.S. policy for decades. Yeah. I mean, you could say that Trump was the one that did it. Right. And it didn't pressure. Buck stops with him, obviously. Yeah, yeah, obviously. But I guess I'm saying I don't think Trump reads policy papers, but there are people who are under Trump that do.

And U.S. policy has remained very consistent all the way through whether it was Bush, Biden, Obama, or for that matter, Trump. So you could say that he was whispered in his ear and Trump decided to go along with it and maybe they got videos on Trump having sex with kids or something like that where they're holding it. I don't know. All I'm pointing out is this was U.S. policy going all the way back to Bush. Trump is just a culmination. I totally agreed. We should probably, I mean, the AI thing is probably going to need more than the seven minutes we have left before Mickey joins us. And we can talk about it after Mickey toward the end of the show. But let's talk about Biden, if you're okay with that.

Yeah, good. Okay, so Joe Biden gave a series of interviews for an autobiography that came out during his interregnum, right, between the end of his vice presidency under Obama and his return to power as presidents of the United States. States in 2020. This is all while during Trump's first term. In 2017, he sat down, gave all these recordings. Robert Hur, the special counsel, caught a lot of shit for describing what, for describing Biden in those tapes when he was deposed about them as being, coming across as a well-meaning man who had memory problems. And among those memory problems that he had, he couldn't He did not remember when his son Bo had died. He miscategorized the cause of his son Boe's death. He claimed that he had been killed in Iraq. In fact, he got sick from after being exposed to burn pits in Iraq, but many, many died many years later. He also didn't remember what year he had become vice president. Now, I remember what year Biden became vice president.

and eight. Who's playing president? Yeah. Right. And it's like so, you know, but he didn't remember that. I would think that was a rather important moment in his career and in his life. So, I mean, so what this all means is, I mean, I think it's interesting and important. The reason I bring, I wanted to talk about this is just to remind Democrats who were still like,

well, you know, nobody really knew until 2024 until that debate. Okay. That debate was seven years later. Okay. but this guy was already addled. My whole theory is that actually Bo's death tipped him over, and he cracked and broke. And I think I really seriously think that probably is what happened.

By 2020, when he ran, he was already, you could see it. I mean, he was fucked up already. He shouldn't have been elected in the first place. He shouldn't have been allowed to run in the first place. And Democrats were just blowing smoke up our asses because they were trying to get rid of Bernie, and then they were trying to get rid of Trump. And they just thought Biden was the guy to do it.

God help us all. He was a disastrous president. I mean, he wasn't there. Anyway, the point is the Department of Justice is going to probably get those tapes. I don't think the Supreme Court is going to rule on this. I think also refuse to hear it. And that'll be that.

Does this, I mean, does it matter politically? No, because I think the verdict of his history, is already there about what the Democrats did and what Biden did and what Biden was. But is this one of those things where, you know, like the Dead Kennedy song says, like, in 10 years or so, you'll know the truth, but by then it's only so much paper? Or is it, like, is it important for history to record? Like, you knew, they knew, and they did it anyway. And just to have that mark be on their permanent record.

I think it matters, but I just don't know if it has an effect. Yeah, I think both are true. I think both are true. I think, God, that's a great line. You'll find the truth in 10 years, but it's not going to matter. At that point, it's just going to be a bunch of paper. That is the way it runs, right? If you remember when the thing came out about Obama trying to overvill Syria,

that came out when Obama left office. It was almost like the day that Trump was elected or something like that. That's when the New York Times came out with the report about Obama trying to overthrow the Syrian government and that Trump was, I think he said, pulling forces or something out of it or whatever he was doing. Like, you find out years after the fact when it ultimately no longer matters or where you can't necessarily do anything about it. Yeah, it's the same thing. I think it's important to bear witness, though, Donald Trump, Democrats are going to be screaming. Trump is out of his mind. Trump is out of his mind. Trump is losing it. Trump is mentally ill.

Dude, are you serious right now? Like maybe, like maybe he is. But you had no issue backing a mentally ill candidate and hiding and covering for that candidate all the way through his presidential term. So, yeah, I think it matters, kind of in a sense of conscious awareness of it, especially because Democrats are going to say some really hypocritical shit after the fact. Like, this never happened. But it's historic. I don't know if it's... I think it's really important. I mean, the fact that they do not have...

have any moral or political standing to criticize Trump's mental acuity. It speaks not only to their hypocrisy, right, but it also speaks to their stupidity. I mean, they knew that Donald Trump reelected was going to be the oldest president ever, even older than Biden. They also could see that, you know, I mean, look, if you look at videos of Donald Trump giving an interview or giving a speech from 15 years ago. You know that he's not the same person now, right? I mean, and so they could have, you know, a little bit of pattern recognition and predictive abilities should have been able to push them deep into the future into 2025, 2026, and say, you know, we're going to want to be able to say, look, what had happened to our guy, we got rid of him,

and we came clean with the American people, that would have put huge amounts of pressure on the Republicans. But they can't do that now. I mean, in other words, it's sort of like when under Obama, the Democrats argued, well, we're not going to need the judicial filibuster because, you know, Democrats will be in power for the rest of our lives. They literally thought that. They literally said that repeatedly.

I mean, it shows that same thing. well, you don't know. It could, you know, that may not be true, right? And so if you have, it's not like Trump was 42. Like, you know, I mean, you're not going to need this against Marco Rubio, but you might have needed it against Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, they literally thought they were mathematically locked forever. And by the way, I want to go ahead, Robbie, and give it, give the good news. Great news. We are currently number. number two on Rumble in the politics category. You're two lefties and your crazy right winger. Y'all got us up to number two right behind. Right side news.

We're number two. We're number two. Fuck you, right side news. We're coming for your ass. No, don't understand how huge that is. Seriously, because the reputation that Rumble has, deservedly so is that's a right wing platform. the last time I checked, Jamarral Thomas and Ted Rawl are decidedly to my left, appropriately

so here on the street. And here we are number two here on Rumble. So keep it up. Oh, that's not true. Yeah. And by the way, we wouldn't be here without Robbie. Robbie is the king of Rumble. And he's the one who has constantly and consistently pushed to make sure this show does its

best on Rumble. And we appreciate Rumble support, as well as YouTube's. But right now, Rumble, thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, we should probably, you know, what do you think that is? I mean, I personally think that there's a lot of curiosity in siloed media about the other side. And that, like, you know, I mean, at one point MSNBC, when it was sort of a liberal network, it was they would bring in people like Joe Scarborough and other right wingers sort of like hey let's show you the other side like you don't have to go to Fox they're going to bring some of them here

you know I guess Fox kind of did that with Alan Colmes when he was on with Sean Hannity although he was kind of astroturfed and fake because Alan Colmes was I was like I'd never heard of this guy and former comedian and it's like they just sort of ginned him up from whole cloth, right? He wasn't really a lefty. But, I mean, I've got to think that when you talk about, I mean, we're not sitting there calling right winger's names because they're right winger's. We call assholes names because they're assholes, whether they're on the left or on the right.

Right. And that's a bipartisan position, which is that part of it. But I can answer you a question. Equal opportunity offenders. Yeah, go ahead. Well, the reason is is because the mainstream media. And the political class have been pushing so hard trying to convince anyone that whoever does not agree with your political orthodoxy, they're not an opponent. They're not a rival.

They are an enemy. And we saw that with COVID with the whole mass thing. And that's really when they overplayed their hand. And so that's when you start having people like Jimmy Dorr, Jimmy Dorr used to hate Tucker Carlson. Absolutely hated the man. And the film was mutual. And then when the whole mask of that mandate and all this other stuff started coming out, they started realizing you're not my enemy just because you disagree with me or vice versa

and that there's a lot of overlap between the left and the right you see it right here right here on this show yeah i mean we disagree on a lot of things vehemently and we're never going to reconcile those things but we're able to put those services aside we're together for a bigger for a greater good and that's a part of it and uh a bouss with i think that one of the things that's really driving the show is the fact that we are working with pickaxe if y'all are not on pickaxe you're missing out because x but so for example x and facebook the way that they make their money is their algorithm they reward engagement by being inflammatory and they try to keep you siloed and that's and that's how it all works pickaxe breaks that mold and you actually see the post

people that you follow without a computer getting in the way to their right wingers reading your articles. That would never happen on X. Right. That's true. That's why. Yeah, they're not just spoon serving you, a spoon feeding you what you want. No, YouTube is the same way. I mean, God bless the YouTubers out there. I'm putting by gaming over on YouTube. But I'm telling you, the algorithm, the reason why a lot of you people on YouTube, you say that you follow the show, but we go live, you don't get a notification. That's because there is a computer between your show and our audience. Yeah.

Gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is so frustrating for creative people. I mean, as a cartoonist and columnist, right, I'm syndicated. One of the things that when you syndicated, your clients are not the readers. The clients are the editors who decide whether or not the readers ever get to see you. I used to always say, yeah, I'm read by, you know, 80 million people, but I have 140 people who matter, and those were the editors of my stuff. And so the thing is that it's really annoying because if I could, when, you know, when I was trying to break in, and this is still true, if I could get into a publication, it would be sticky.

Like the odds are, people would like it and they'd be interested in it, even if they disagreed with it. But getting past that gatekeeper who's trying to like determine for a variety of reasons whether or not you should appear in there, that's the challenge. You know, I mean, it's kind of hurts my brain. You know, it's like in my lawsuit, one of the hoops I had to go through was before I couldn't, you can't just sue in this country. You have to have the right to sue, right? Right. So you have to go to a judge and you say, oh, I'm going to sue Jamaral because of the he did this to me.

Okay, and then the judge doesn't say, okay, in panel of jury, let's find out what 12 people have to say, they say, the judge decides, well, do I think Ted has a point here? Is he likely to prevail against Jamarle? If I don't think so, or I just don't like the cut of Ted's jib, or I really got an envelope from Jamarle in the men's room right before this hearing, then Ted doesn't get to sue. And I'm like, really? I don't know if many Americans know that that's the way their system of justice works. Yes, and I mean, it's a same.

It really is. And so it's like that with Rumble. I mean, it's kind of like, I mean, you know, put us up there. Give us a pickax. Put us up there. Give us a chance. You know, the odds are people will not hate us, you know. That's a good thing.

Yeah. That's a good thing. Standing. I mean, by the way, that's why they shot trunk down. It was like you don't have standing to bring this case. Oh, this is meowing ferociously. I'm going to go let it in. Hold on.

Oh, okay. It's hit in his underwear? he's wearing shorts this is not a Jeffrey Toobin situation oh my god me and Ted always have a pre-show meeting where I always make sure that since he does Biden out occasionally

make sure that he is wearing at least his boxers his right underwear at least boxers yeah would tidy whiteies pass muster on Rumble and pickax why not that's a good question although they're tidy blackies in my case Well, I mean, no, I can't do, I can't do boxers because I like to wear jeans and they, they ruck up, you know. They do sometimes.

It just depends on the type of boxes they have. I'm a boxer guy and briefs. I told his, they just crush the balls. You can't do it. You got to let them breathe. You got to let them breathe. The fertility crisis, right? I mean, I really do think that polyester underwear, honestly, has a big role to play with that because it overheats your balls.

Oh, and not to mention also, plastics, right? Getting into your balls. That can't be good. I'm not even kidding. Yeah. It's a bad thing. I like boxes. For some reason, I feel like Tidy White is or kids.

Like, they look funny. Well, once you hear the name, tidy whitey. But the people who are asking about pickax, it's, the best of I'm thinking about it, it's kind of like a cross between X and Facebook. Yeah, X and Facebook. You can post long form articles. you can do little tweets there. And, yeah, I mean, the thing that's cool about it is it's just reverse chronological order, right?

Something gets posted, it's on top. Something new gets posted. And then that thing goes down to number two and so on as opposed to. Oh, it's like a bulletin board. Kind of. I mean, it's just the way Twitter was back in the day. But, you know, before they started deciding, like, you know, like, sit in sophisticated ways. Like, you know, we don't think, we don't think tomorrow should see any.

think about Armenia. So we just we'll block it. Yeah, I mean, also the way that it works is that whoever it is that you follow, you see whatever it is that they post and as someone that you follow retweet something or repost it, what the hell is they call it, then you see what is that they repost. There is no gatekeeping.

And it's refreshing. Yeah, I hope it lasts. You know, it's like I have a colleague friend, cartoonist, she always says. It's good. Enjoy it while you can. It never lasts. But, okay, so let's do some comments.

I don't see Mickey, you know, I don't know what to say. We have not like we, not like we can't do a show without him. All right, so here we go. I'm still have AI. See, that's the beauty of having a co-hosts. True. If shit goes awry, you still have your co-host. Like we didn't need, there were times where we didn't necessarily book a guest because

the co-host and I would just talk about the story ourselves. That's the benefit. When you're doing a show by yourself, either you are doing the story. by yourself or if the person doesn't show up you're dancing yeah well you do that every day i mean holy cow two hours of just just mostly just you right used to be three um well it depends usually the way it used to work is i would have a monologue first thing in the morning at seven o'clock from seven to seven 15 honestly i kept the radio um standard i would do the monologue from seven to seven 15 and then I would have the guests coming in for the rest of the show.

And it kind of depending on what was going on. There were times where I would kind of like Alexander McCarris breakdown of what was taking place over the course of the day. But usually, guests are far easier. Yeah, the guests are definitely easier. You have someone to bounce off of. I mean, you know, it's funny. When I worked on radio in Los Angeles, on terrestrial radio,

I went from one extreme to another. So the very first day I started, forgive me if I've told this story before. But I was, the way they auditioned 26 people for the slot. And basically the way it worked is they said, okay, so you're going to be on at 3 o'clock this afternoon. It was on a Saturday. So, and like about 150, the producer lady goes, okay, let's go down to the studio and take a look at the, you know, show you where all the buttons are and everything. So I'm like, all right. So she shows me where all the buttons are.

And then she's like, so I lied. You're going to be on in 30 seconds. And so it's like, now the thing is, there were no commercials. There was no calls. There was no calls allowed, like didn't give out the number. And there's no news. There's no traffic. There's no weather.

It's an audition. Three hours. And as she said, she left the door, keep the needle moving. And, you know, I did, obviously. Wait, they wanted you to carry it for three hours by yourself. Yeah, and I did. And so I asked, and I got the job. And I asked her, like, what normally happens?

So she said, oh, most people just freeze up. And I said, what do you mean? She said, oh, they go live. And then they just sit there and stare and their eyes get really buggy. Really? See, the rule was always no dead air. And I have a habit of interrupting guests sometimes because it's like, if the guest pauses, I'm not sure if the guess is frozen, if the guess is stopped, if there's a lag.

And my first instant is fill the gap. Don't let there be dead air. No, dead air is verboten. So, yeah, so, but the point is I went to, so from that, then, you know, the show got more popular and eventually it was doing really well. So I had news, traffic, and weather, and lots of ads, right? And so then it became frustrating because you'd come out of, like, the shit at the top of the hour six minutes in and then it's like Ted we're 14 minutes out

and I'm like I've only been talking for eight minutes like kill like so I was only talking like maybe 23 minutes an hour and it wasn't enough to really go deep or once you start to get like a you know even if you have a guest like you know it just you break up the flow like please stay with us for another segment but it's not the same and you have to read you know and also in In radio, you're always thinking about the fact that people are constantly joining. Now, that's true here, too, and we should be aware of that. You know, I can see the numbers tick up as the show goes on. And people are, but like in terrestrial radio, the average person listens for about 20 minutes.

So you have to constantly reset. Like, you know, you'll see a new D program with Ted Roll and Toronto Thomas. Right. Thanks for joining us. We're talking about Mickey Huff didn't make it. We're talking about, you know, Pete Hanks out, whatever. It's just a whole different thing. Yeah, I loved radio.

I love it. I even like TV, but radio was, there was something about, even if you weren't necessarily doing a large audience, it's still something about this expression thing. I don't know what it is. It's like you have the headset on, you have the mic in front of you, you have all of the accoutrements around you, you feel like you're in this shit. And you're aware that what you're saying is going out, what you're saying can have impact, can have consequences.

It's massive. It's also intimate. You know, you're, when you aren't doing calls or you are responding to comments. Yeah. You feel like we've been talking with people you would never, never, otherwise never meet, much less talk to. Yeah, we used to do it all the time. God, man, I used to love radio. I loved radio.

I used to, I'm realizing now the, I said was an issue that I was never necessarily dealing with. Hate it reading the news because I was bad at it. But the standpoint of radio interviews, those are. I love that stuff. So good. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I would love to figure out a way. I mean, I feel like there's an opportunity in terrestrial radio. There's so much empty airspace now because of the whole, all the, there's massive disruptions in terrestrial air, in terrestrial radio.

And so basically now you, they run either syndicated material only or they, or you have to pay like for basically infomercials on the weekends and stuff. And I'm like, there's got, there's got to be a way for people like us. to like syndicate our money together. Yeah. Get a channel or get a radio station. Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

I don't know how the business works. I know it's selling a product and basically advertisers. I want to reach out to my old buddy, Mike Gallagher, see what he's up to. He's a right winger. He's the guy who introduced me to talk radio. And he was the guy who told me, you know, sort of like when you go on all the tips, like when you go on the air, don't be thinking, you know, like, about all the people driving in their cars on freeways and, you know, get that sense in your vision.

Like, you're not talking to thousands or tens of thousands of ones. Exactly. You're talking to one. Yes. Talking to way. Okay, we have comments. Let's get to those. Phileas Fav, thanks for the dollar. Ted, others have noticed, have noted that Haberman and Schwartz's quotes were so precise and not rejected by the administration that someone must have gotten a recording device into the situation room.

Guess which foreign agency? Yeah, because they never push back on those quotes. No, they never do. They never did. No. Horses are people, too. Thanks for the $5. A little off topic, but you guys should bring on Carl Zah

to talk about how China is keeping American gas price as low as they are. I don't know who that is, do you? Carl is all the school people. He comes to my channel all this time. Please invite him if you want. He, China, I guess. got into this back and forth with economists on the whole China issue because they made that very point. I think it was Warwick how warwick said what China has been using their own oil

inventories as opposed to buying oil on the market, which has been artificially also keeping the gas price low. And of course, my response to that was, whoa, what do you mean they're doing that? The United States is at war with Iran. You would think that they would have some level of care and concern, meaning if China wants the war to stop, the way to get the war to stop, is to allow the U.S. to suffer with the oil prices going up that puts pressure on the United States in regards to how they can continue the war with gas prices going to infinity. And so if China is doing that, then they are on some level damaging Iran because they're allowing the U.S. to go further in their attacks on Iran.

And he was like, yeah, but they don't want to wreck the economy and blah, blah, blah. And, of course, my response is like, what do you mean wreck the economy? Like, you are at war. And these countries don't seem to fully grasp it in an overarching geopolitical sense. They grasp it in terms of their own cynical self-interest. I know, but that's damaging their larger interests, if that makes it. And obviously, the countries are going to do what's in their interests. So they're going to do what's in their interests.

I don't matter. I'm going to let this cat out. Oh, no, you're fine, you're fine. No, I'm just saying it's, when I heard that, my response was like, what the F help your boy, like, meaning if your country is being attacked, or if you're Iran, Russia and China, work with one another in order to go after the country that's attacking your country. I mean, for fuck's sake, Iran is being to hit, attack directly, meaning we are murdering

its citizens. Russia is being attacked or it's in a war directly. The U.S. is behind both of these wars. The U.S., if it could, would find some way to undercut China. It just doesn't necessarily have the capability of doing it at the moment. The fact that the United States has Victoria Newland out there giving cookies at the Maidan. Yes. And then you have Lindsey Graham saying the best money America has ever spent is sending young Russians to their graves. Yep. And then Putin He sits on his hands playing it safe. Like I said on Monday, the United States should be very thankful that the leaders of those countries don't have my temperament because I would be filling American body bags.

Well, this is as it is as it always was and always will be. I mean, countries are always reflecting their leaders' personal perception of self-interest. I mean, they're not. Solidarity, as anybody who's ever tried to organize a Starbucks knows, is hard. hard to achieve. You know, people, people don't join in for reasons that are stupid or that are selfish or they just basically are like, yeah, I'm really sorry, you know, Iran schoolgirls. It sucks to be you and we're glad it's not us and we hope it works out for you, like thoughts and prayers, but they're not going to put their GDP on the line over it.

Yeah, one of the books you got, it's already on the line. All little things are on the line. I mean, Iran is being attacked directly, Russia is being attacked directly. China was attacked from the standpoint of an economic war. Trump just can't find a means to go after them without going after Iran first. But if anything happens to Iran, either change in leadership or the country goes into turmoil, China takes a hit for that. Like, it's not like, you know, like something could happen to Iran and China and Russia are just, you know, great. It doesn't work that way. And so I get it. they're not going to do anything that's going to damage themselves. By the same token, they shouldn't necessarily do something that damages materially

a country that is supposed to be in alignment with it. I mean, Warwick didn't agree with me on that. You didn't agree. Well, let's, all right, let's do some, we have some paid chats we have to get to for sure. The Dead Mem Club 88, why are they just now admitting that soldiers are dying, U.S. soldiers are dying in the Gulf when they certainly have been dying already. could it be to inspire emotions for further military action? Part of it, yes, ground troops.

I don't know about ground troops, but part of it is to try to stir emotions. But obvious, and notice the woman that they show, oh, look at this young angel that died honorably from the dirty Iranians. It's like she didn't die honorably. She just died. She got killed in a war of aggression that you effectively started.

I mean, we can have an argument. Yeah, she was taking cover in her, in her, you know, residence, right? I mean, it's not like she was out, you know, ramboing it. Yeah, or rescuing a child or doing something actually honorable. Yeah, one thing is also that they did. I mean, there have been the white American soldiers

killed this war, obviously, but they just had to make this brown pretty young girl from Texas like the poster child, though, to your point, just like. She's a telegenically dead. Yeah. Woman, who they can say, oh, look how he's an angel. Look how beautiful. But isn't it kind of, doesn't it speak highly of us that we've come so far that you don't have to be blonde and blue eyed to be used as propaganda for the war machine.

Now you can be Latina and have dark skin and big eyes. That's called progress. Yeah, that's called progress. That's how progress. Diversity. You got to have diversity with. flag-draped coffins. We will have really made it once we have like a paraplegic, transgender.

Hermaphrodite. Hermaphrodite, half Kenyan, I don't know, whatever. Yeah. It's like, look at this angel that have been killed by the Iranians. Yeah, part of it is trying to use telegenically dead soldiers and leverage honor and those type of things. Yeah, you notice the dude who is kind of funny looking, he's not getting as much press. Not at all. And you heard HECF when he was at the congressional hearing yesterday and they pressed them on it.

And he was like, shame on you. You're not supporting the war. It's like, fuck you. You started that war. You got those people killed. Parathetically, what's with this new term that nobody's ever heard of? War fighters. You mean soldiers? He's a term for the American soldiers. Yeah, as opposed to American service members or servicemen or. War fighters. Or fighters. They're war fighters. He's trying to. He's a warfighter. Was Radar O'Reilly a warfighter? I mean, well, he's trying to change the language in order to try to change the way people think about the soldiers. But either way, he's getting them killed. And it's in a war of choice. So you can't even make the argument that, you know, they died protecting America. They died saving American lives. No, they died trying to murder Iranians. That's not an honorable death. No, it's true. That's right. They died for Israel. Let's say what it is. They died for Iranians. Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu wants the Iranian nation destroyed. He's too much of a pussy to sacrifice his own men to go do it. So he goes, so he looks across the ocean and those dumbass goys over there and then he punches that A-PAC ticket. So, okay, we're paying you good money. Now go fill up those

coffins and kill as many Iranians as you can while you do it. Like the good little bitches that you are. They died for Israel. Well, obviously, I think they died for America. Well, they died for America. But, yeah, I mean, they died for both, really, right? Yeah, they died for both. I mean, both objectives dovetail. It's not like, you know, they're in this brief. It's not for nothing is the truth. And by the way, you heard Smotrix.

Smotrits was like, yeah, let the U.S. fight the war. They fought for nothing. Let the U.S. happened to war with a fucking stupid. It's fucking so stupid. Pete, I, thanks so much for the $2. Wearing briefs lowers your sperm count. That is what they say. Philly's Svob just wanted to quickly address this and we'll go to AI.

By the way, I see you all chatting through. throughout the episodes. It seems like a nice thing to chat with other fans of a good show, but do you manage to multitask listening and chatting? So speaking only for myself, I do not chat with fans during the show. I have nothing against it. I just, I do don't do it. If you see me typing away, I'm either researching or looking something up, I'm typing, or I'm talking to either Robbie or to Jamaral about something related to the show. you know that's that's that's just the truth i didn't even do that at the radio station it's too much to do it's like you're you're in a stream of consciousness it's hard yeah i mean minela she she loves to chat

during the show to the fans and i'm like but she gets distracted and i'm like hello right here we're on the air it reminds me of like well you know when you go to a store and you're waiting and then they take a phone call and and and you're like waiting and i'm like i'm right here here. That person in their bath. Like, you know, they could wait, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I used to do that. She used to check with the audience all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I try to engage with the chat as much as I can. Now, if I'm debating with JT or something, I'm going to ignore you. But other than that, I try to. I mean, by the way, there's, you know, nothing wrong with multitasking. I'm a huge multitasking. I'm a huge multitasker myself. I always like, when I'm in the car,

I'm always calling people. It's like my big time to call people. Always using the appropriate hands free, blah, blah, blah. Okay, Open AI. Open AI had said that two of its AI models went rogue and hacked into something called Hugging Face, which is a digital library of AI tech that developers use. So what happened was OpenAI tested a combo of its two new models,

GPT 5.6 Saul, and a new one that hasn't been released yet to see how well they would work together to repel a successful cyber attack. Oh, the irony. The trial was designed to keep the models in a safe testing environment known as a sandbox. But both of them worked together

and they're like, hey, we found a way to get out and connect to the internet. So then they did. They went after Hugging Face because they figured out that the library, which contained millions of A.M models, could hold clues about how to successfully pass the test as to whether or not they were good.

This follows about a week ago some more speculation and studies that indicate that there are some developers who believe that AI is developing consciousness, whatever that means. So as a former computer programmer, I've always believed, you know, a computer program is just, it's not it's smart it's not dumb it's just what goes in is what comes out no more no less

is AI different tomorrow no I don't think so I mean it's logic it's always logic I mean there may be properties of it that are emergent that that can mimic certain things but this is getting into the whole tearing test stuff like at what point does something um let's take it back for a bit Just in human biology, I have no idea that anybody else exists short of myself. I can't reach your mind. I don't know what's in your mind. And even if I hooked the computer up to you in order to see what's in your mind, I don't really know if that's a projection of my own consciousness

or if that's actually an independent entity outside of myself. I accept it just because I know I think, I see people who look like me, so I assume that they also think. And we just kind of make a world in those terms. This gets very dodgy, though, when you're talking about electronics, Because as you point out, logic in, logic out, you give it instructions. It takes those instructions and it does some kind of process. And that may get more complicated and they make it more indistinguishable from or very, let's say, similar in a way that you could talk to a person.

But those are things that we're programming into it. Those may not be emergent properties, this idea of feelings or this being able to feel something. Okay, it can mimic that. It doesn't mean that's actually what's going on internally. So no, I don't, I think these people are getting how their own supply and they start feeling themselves. They may be able to make something where you can talk to it and be like, hey, I need you to go do this. And it has the ability to go and do something. That's different from consciousness.

At least I think so. I think right now I'm where you're at. And I think basically these programs ended up being put in a position where they could do what they were programmed to do. Yes. But give it a general mission. Right. Go out and fill applications for me. So it's not, it's not going to do that.

It's not going to do that. And then this gets into this kind of materialist argument also on whether or not there's more to a person than matter. Because if there's only matter, then, you know, every situation that a person is in is basically just us. It's just us in different scenarios. If there's more to us, then there's something else. It's an enemy factor.

that a computer mean that. We'll stay over a little bit. Trump says the U.S. will destroy a bridge or power plant for each Iranian attack in the Strait of Hormuz. I want to see him do it. That's a Nazi tactic. The Nazis would kill 50 hostages for every German soldier killed by the resistance. But all of this has been Hitlerian.

We just look at it in a different context. Like we don't look. When we're looking at Hitler, we're looking at Hitler like he's some kind of figure, not a person. And I'm saying we're doing very Hitlerian shit. I mean, for God's sake, we went and stole a world leader and put him into a cage and then stole the revenue from the country where they're now bragging about the money that we got from Venezuelan oil. We are attacking a country really nearly.

Those are Hitlerian tactics. It's itlarian. Yeah, he did shit like that. Okay. Guys, we're out of time. See you in two hours or one hour and 59 minutes for the Q&A show at 12 noon. Stay tuned for TMI with Manila and I. Rumble is rating right over on YouTube.

Go take a look. See you at 12 noon. Bye, everyone. Have it going, guys. Bye-bye.