DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Nothing To See Here! | DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss: • In a classic late Friday “media dump,” DOJ has released the Epstein Files. Well, some of them. And those have been heavily redacted. Members of Congress are threatening Attorney General Pam Bondi with contempt of Congress. • The civil war in the MAGA movement broke wide open at the Turning Point confab. Is this a party pulling itself apart? Or healthy airing of disagreements? • Peace in Ukraine by Christmas? US-Ukraine meet in Miami. Lt. Gen. Fanil Sarvarov blown up by car bomb. Ukrainian intelligence services suspected. At the same time as war with Venezuela? • Did Bari Weiss censor a “60 Minutes” segment on CECOT?

Good morning and welcome to D-Program with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou. It's Monday, December 22nd, 2025. Good morning, John. Good morning, Ted. How are you doing? I'm okay. So, yeah, it's been a busy weekend. Big media dump on Friday. Big hubbub at a right-wing convention. Lots to talk about, as always. And as always, little housekeeping, please like, follow, and share the show.

If you're watching us only on YouTube, but you're open to watching us on Rumble, please consider doing so. We will at some point have Robbie come on and explain why that's important, for those of you haven't heard the pitch yet. But basically, it just means that the show becomes more financially remunerative for us, and it doesn't really change your experience at all. We will be here this week every day except on Thursday, Christmas Day. We will be here Monday through Wednesday. And then on Friday, if you want to get away from the fam and Boxing Day and white sails, if they still do that kind of thing, just we will be here on Friday morning as well. Let's see. So today we're going to talk about the Epstein File, the Civil War and the Maga movement.

The talks about Ukraine, Russian General got blown up again. Well, not the same one. And Barry Weiss seems to be censoring 60 minutes from the right. So, John, so we should go through some questions and then maybe... Sure. All right. Yeah, we do have a couple of questions already. Three Birds, One Stone.

We are going to talk about the Turning Point USA Confab. So we'll just save that. Chris Stubbs show wants more of Robbie's takes on freedom, less government and our right, I promise you, that will be forthcoming in the discussion about Turning Point. So you guys are just reading our minds. Aaron Bach, thank you for my first lap of the week. Russia, if you're listening, release the files. Yeah, I mean, remember that? They probably do have them. You know, so yeah, sure, that'd be great. Yeah, no, I do remember that. And I, you know, the Democrats always, like, acted so indignant about that joke. But it was a joke. It was clearly.

a joke, and it was a funny joke, too. It was funny. So, A-L-I-K-L-I-I- don't know how to pronounce that. Not releasing files gives leverage. If those files are indeed so life-ending, it will be used as bargaining chips forever.

Blackmail like that are political dooks. Maybe we'll talk about that. Tusk USA light-hearted question. What's John's opinion on Ivy League view of classic Greek versus modern Greek people's view? I understand they call it false. And before John, before you answer that, I just have to say, when I went to Columbia, I lived in the Barnard dorms for two years,

and Barnard's an all-girls school. And there were vintage photos on the wall of, like, back in the 19-teens and 1920s, where every single graduate of Barnard College had to be tested as fluent in ancient Greek. And they would dress up in the robes and stuff, and those black and white photos. And I was just like, these were smarter people than we are. But anyway, go ahead. The modern Greeks is funny. They don't really care about ancient Greek.

It's not mandatory. It's not compulsory to study it in schools. And you see ancient Greek on some of the old monuments and the old steeles and gravestones that are on display, things like that. And you can sound things out, but they don't make any sense to the modern Greek. The modern Greeks are actually very proud that this kind of thing is still studying. in the West, in the important schools, but they don't necessarily study it themselves. So that's interesting. So, but it's not, so is it, is it not as radical as a break as, for example, when Ataturk got rid of Eric's script? No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all, not at all.

So, so it's still possible. Oh, yeah. But is, is the difference comparable to like old English versus New English? I mean, that's obviously not as far. That's only a thousand years. But it, but that's very close. Yeah. Even, even I can sound out words that I see on great steeles, but I don't understand what most of the words are. There are some that are saying like joy and health and luck that you oftentimes see on household items, like pictures or cups made out of clay or whatever. But most of the time, it just doesn't make any sense. Gotcha. And is there any argument of where like which one is prettier? For example, you know how like French, the French look down on Quebec Croix French and like that kind of thing.

Is there any, or I mean, we don't have any, we don't, Americans don't talk about old English. It's just like basically a foreign language. Yeah. Right. It's like a foreign language. John Nicholas Francois wants to know from you, did you hear about the meeting today in Jerusalem between the meetings of Israel, Greece and Cyprus? And also about the combined quick reaction for us that they're planning to establish. Yeah, I was talking to a friend of mine last night about this at a Christmas party, and, you know, this is all very sad, actually.

If you're a supporter in any way of Palestinian human rights and you also happen to be Greek-American, this is colossally disappointing because the Greeks aren't pro-Israel just because they're true believers in Israel. The Greeks are pro-Israel because the Turks are anti-Israel. The Greeks used to have the closest relations with Palestinians of any European country. Really? Every single Arab... Now that would be Ireland, I think. Yeah, without a doubt. But there used to be...

I mean, there was a presence of every Arab group that mattered, whether the West considered it to be a terrorist group or not. it had a presence in in athens and then as soon as the turks flipped the turks used to be solidly pro-Israel and then they flipped under erdogan the greeks then were forced to flip lest they be allied with the the turks on an issue now the turks were used to be play much more footsies with the israelis right oh they were very close to the israelis very very close to the israelis and that changed dramatically around like 2000 or 2001 yes um if you so thanks for the money don't try to release the upstein files that's impossible instead only try to realize the truth there is no

obscene files then you'll see it is not the obscene file it is only yourself if you don't know the reference i don't know what to i don't know how to help you um u s triple x a rod how much is trouble is pam bondi in for removing an image on the epstein file dump site and people noticed I would say that's not the trouble. I mean, it's an symptom of the trouble, but we'll talk about that. And John, you miss a real opportunity this weekend to box with Lus DeMonte. Oh, I don't want to legitimize the guy.

Yeah, plus you'd have his DNA on your body. Do you want that? No, thanks. We're going to be talking about the Russian general, David Day, so we'll get to that. John, do they talk, John Hurth wants to know from you. Do they talk about mythology in Greek households as folklore for kids and storytime, since Greek Orchodoxy is the main religion and obviously don't follow mythology anymore, obviously.

No, they don't, but they do make sure that every child in Greece knows Esop's fables. Oh, that's interesting. I was raised on them. I was raised on them. And then when I got to whatever it was, second grade or whatever, they started reading them to us. I was like, yeah, I know all this stuff. Yeah, the French also really emphasize Esau's fables, too. I still remember my mom reciting them in French.

Hey, John, this is from Ogago Ikenna, your number one fan from Nigeria. What's your take on Nigeria being on the partial ban? Also, this is obviously for travel to the U.S. Also, how will this ban affect the World Cup in the United States? Oh, good questions. I touched on this in one of the shows last week. It was, I don't know, Wednesday, Thursday. I'm opposed to blanket bans on anybody, first of all.

But I thought it was especially mistaken to put a partial ban on Nigeria. If you're worried about, you know, Nigerian Muslim terrorist groups in the North, okay, yeah, that's fine. You weed them out in the consular line. If you're worried about scammers, again, weed them out of the, the consular line. Let the consular officers do the job that you've trained them to do. But to just ban a gigantic country like Nigeria where we have serious business taking place, especially as it relates to oil, I think is a big mistake. It's very cartoonish, right? I mean, because like, look,

a terrorist could come from Switzerland. And, you know, and most people who come from a dangerous country like Pakistan, you know, are not terrorists. So it's just like you can't really say all, you know, they all put people in a box like that. It just doesn't even, it makes no sense from an American national security standpoint. None. I spent, when I was stationed in Athens, I spent the better part of two years looking for a Swiss terrorist named Bruno Brigay. And then some of the greatest threats against Americans in Athens came from the likes of Germans and Italians and, you know, other, other violent left-wing terrorists. so thanks very much for the 20 bucks from daddy of triplets

thank you hey congratulations yeah seriously that's awesome yeah no I mean I kind of I mean I kind of was thinking I would have twins I had for about a month I thought I was going to have twins I was very excited about it so you know I thought it would have been really cool so yeah thanks for that John should we just get into the Epstein files that our lead story and then we'll get into the MAGA movement stuff so obviously so You know that when the dump is coming on a Friday, that that's because there's stuff to hide. And the thing that there was to hide was that there was stuff to hide. First of all, according to this law passed by the Congress, right, the discharge petition,

the attorney general's office, the DOJ was required to release all of the files. They didn't. They basically were like, you know, like a kid asking a professor for an extension on finals week. like, sorry, prof, man, I was partying, and I didn't get it all done. They didn't really have an explanation for why. They just released part of them. They just said, like, it was too much. And then the other, you know, I'm thinking, well, maybe if you hadn't laid off so many people from Doge, you could have processed all of these files.

But I don't even think that's the reason. But whatever, there's no reason to trust them. And then there's a bunch of, and then what was released was covered with so many redactions that, John, I had a total flashback to my childhood. during the Watergate era, and, you know, the explicit deleted and the 18 and half-minute gap and you know, all that stuff that came out from the White House tapes. And it was like all just redaction, redaction, redaction, uh, 9-11 commission report, same sort of thing. I mean, it's, so here we go again, right? So here we go again. We have some members of Congress who are threatening, you know, to charge A.G. Bondi with, with contempt of Congress, which you can go

to jail for as, as, as, as, Steve Bannon did. You know, what a year? He did a year. So what's going to happen? I mean, I mean, first of all, is the MAGA world contingent that cares about the Epstein files? Are they going to be satisfied with this? Or is this just going to wet their appetite for more. Is it going to make the, is this putting the stink on this whole thing to make them even more curious about what's being hidden? If I were a MAGA person, a true MAGA person, I would be enraged by this because during the campaign, the president promised that he would release all the Epstein files, period. He would release them. And this nickel and diming people is just not a good look.

Something's got to be done. And you know what? I think there's a real chance that Pam Bondi could be held in contempt of Congress. Sure. Behind closed doors, I mean, even conservative members

of Congress must be pretty angry. Yeah, you would think. I mean, literally it is contempt. I would be. It is contempt of Congress in every meaning of the world, of the word. Do you think, I mean,

look, I like to try to be fair. I am opinionated, but fair. Is it possible that a lot of the stuff that was redacted, there's legitimate reasons to redact it? No, I mean, not unless you're protecting the victims. Sure, you redact the victim's names. But no, releasing the documents means releasing the documents. I don't think anybody would object to the victim's names being redacted. But otherwise, no, you got to release everything.

There's going to be a price that comes with this. Ted, there's going to be a price paid at the polls. Like if my local congressman happens to be a Republican, and he ran in part on a platform of releasing the documents, and then just sits by and twittles his thumbs as the documents aren't released, there's going to be a price. Yeah, there's entire sections, right? Like 20 plus pages that are, or there's one section that's over 100 pages that's all black. Like, I mean, it's a joke.

Yes. And, you know, and I think also some of the victims probably wouldn't even mind having their names, you know, not redacted. Right. Sure. Sure. I mean, I'm sure they didn't ask them. What do you make of the look that, like, it looks like Bill Clinton is all over these files. But Donald Trump makes nary an appearance. Yeah. That's a bad look, too. It's a bad look. Release the doggone documents. I mean so will this consider will this continue to fester like a boil or yes I think it will the administration has been I mean they they start this whole bullshit started back in August right before the recess and they went into early was it late July they decided to go into early recess yes thought that basically everyone would forget all about the Epstein files over their

barbecue oh during the summer isn't it funny that in this case See, the Democrats usually screw things up like this. It's funny to me that the Republicans are doing, but in this case, I think that the Republicans have misread their own base. The base is right about this, the MAGA base. It's all about transparency and honesty. There's something also to be said about these pedophile issues, right? Right.

Why protect pedophiles? Of all people. Of all people. Is it the pedophile lobby? that wants to make a big petto yeah big petto i mean why otherwise why why redact them and and uh and protect them makes no sense well i mean there kind of is apparently a bit of a big pedo well there's it's more like there's some pedos who are big right yeah is what it looks like apparently so that seems to be what we're looking at here and it's all going to come out too right like we know that it always does

always the truth always comes out it would be the first time ever that it didn't so i don't know playing for time i don't i don't know what the point is okay let's uh um let's see kirk plopas who says ukraine proxy war seems to be of by and four zionists so trump is disappointing by zionists via ukraine yet giving them Palestine our take on this um i you know i think i think i think I think it's a, I mean, I think there's something, I think there's overlap. There's a Venn diagram, but I don't think it's like one in the same. You know, I mean, it's, Trump is mildly disappointing the supporters of Ukraine. But I think this is more about, like, reconstituted cold warriors who really just don't think that 1991 ever happened. And, you know, I mean, what do you think? Yeah, I, I think that's, that's right. It's like. there was such hope for a while and now it's just such chaos

I just don't get what's wrong with people I know well yeah and it's like it's crazy too because people really they take sides on like Ukraine and when you confront people about basic stuff like well it's a democracy well it's not

a democracy they don't hold elections it's like well you know like no it's not a democracy just don't say that I mean you can certainly say we don't support a non-democracy being invaded but it's not a democracy right it's not a democracy by definition um elliott covert uh do we think epstein scandals played a role in reviving anti-semitism on the right that's a great question i never even i never even thought of that that's a great question

is a great question i think i mean look it's geoffrey epstein okay i mean he he was jewish and um you know and so you know it plays into anti his what he did or is alleged to have done, plays directly into anti-Semitic tropes, right? Here you have an incredibly wealthy person whose path to riches is still nebulous and not well understood, who apparently controlled and had access to people at the highest corridors of power in politics, the economic life, cultural life, and who skated free when he was caught. And, you know, basically, you know, he looks like, you know, kind of a classic anti-Semitic poster from Nazi Germany, like, you know, the octopus with all the

tentacles. That's right. So I would, I would think this, this would play into that. Jeez, I have to agree. I hadn't even considered it, but that's, I mean, it's, it's not correct. He's just, he's just, he's not like part of a Jewish conspiracy. He's just an asshole Jew, which is not the same thing. He just happens to be Jewish. Yeah. but can I file my tub style can I file my taxes with redactions I've always wanted to do I mean I have always wanted to do a la carte taxation you know like where you can sit there and be like a portion like I would like X percent to go to education X percent to go to defense and so on I mean it would be we'd be living in a different country it would be a different America no question about it

I mean, it wouldn't really be represented. It would be more like as close to direct democracy as you could possibly get in this country. All right. We have a clump here. The user 81. Do we think Trump will place a travel ban on Pakistan to appease the base? Well, you know, I mean, that one would be closer to being to being justifiable. You know, still not a good idea because of what you said.

Phil 2020, 1982, MAGA is enraged by this two-tiered justice system was what Trump ran on. and now we see him protecting two tiers of justice. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Here, here. John Hurth, how come everyone in the old and new images released from the files aren't being held to the fire? Like Trump, not defending him.

Well, I hasn't Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, what's with all these bills? And Prince Andrew, et cetera, are getting off, it seems. Well, I don't know that Prince Andrew got off. I mean, he got stripped of everything. Remember, he could have been prosecuted in the United States. And there was never any move to prosecute him. And it's only because people were so outraged among the British public that, and he brought such shame to the royal family that anything at all was done to him.

And really what was done, he's not a prince anymore. Oh, poor baby. John, there's a Manhattan mini storage, which is the New York City's like storage unit company has really cute and funny ad campaigns. And I used to bike by their big depot on 47. 2nd Street and 12th Avenue, and they had a giant billboard that said, safe and protected, and no one can get to it, just like Prince Andrew. That's great. I wish I could be creative like that.

I think I could, actually. I mean, I would, you know, it's like, hey, Madison Avenue, if you want to call, you know, you know my number. Cyberin-Gisero, John, now that it's been proven that the NED funded the Nepal and other Gen Z revolutions. Can you tell us about the interplay between NED and the CIA? It's complicated. The NED is the National Endowment for Democracy. It's a legit like, you know, quasi-governmental organization. But unfortunately, it takes a shitload of CIA money. And under the guise of promoting democracy, it, um, essentially carries out the CIA's covert action business, which is not cool.

And so, you know, where officially the U.S. government policy is, let's say, you know, promote democracy around the world, the CIA will put up money, meaning overthrow the Nepali royal family, let's say. For example. Well, by the way, you know, Freedom House, would you say that was a, I mean, they were, it was founded, co-founded by some CIA people. Yeah. Would you say that it was or is a CIA front or like sort of an affiliate or like your buddies or? Right, right.

I wouldn't call it a front. I would call it an affiliate. And I'll tell you another affiliate. When I was in Kuwait in 1991, we went in just as the, you know, with the Marines, just as the country was being liberated. And I'm there for about two months. And all these Americans show up and they're civilians. And Ambassador Skip Gineem asked me if I would take them around to meet, you know, different political figures.

Well, it turned out that they were the representatives of the, of the International Republican Committee and the International Democratic Committee. So they were the international wings of the DNC and RNC. they arrived together working together with the idea being to encourage democracy in Kuwait I thought what a what a crock and they didn't even they didn't even attempt to you know make it believable first of all Kuwait has a constitutional monarchy there is a parliament in Kuwait it's very free there are free elections etc etc so What do we need the Americans to come in there and tell them how to do democracy?

It was just, it was just weird to me. Well, it's almost like, it's like this junket. We recorded a travel segment this over the weekend for Rumble Premium. And I mentioned my State Department junket to Turkmenistan, where I was told, you know, basically part of a program to, you know, explain democracy to people who live in an autocracy. and you know it's like but but the the assumption is so the underlying assumption is silly the assumption is that like people who don't have countries that don't have democracy it's like they just hadn't heard about it and it's like as soon they'll see the light the scales will

fall from their eyes as soon as oh like we could you know you guys have such a great system yeah thank you teach us our wise ones and it's not really like that no it's not all they have to do was watch, you know, Congress over the last six months for the turning point convention over the weekend. And they'd say, what the kind of democracy is this? Yeah, democracy ain't all that great. This is a, this, we got some great questions. Thank you so much for all these. First a comment, Phil, anti-Semitism is on the rise because people see what Jewish people support and what the Jewish government supports. First of all, it's not a Jewish government, it's the Israeli government, but I take your point. Blaming all Jews for what Israel's government does is like

blaming all Americans for the CIA. Yeah. Yes. Yes. That part is very true. Yes, it is. So, this is, I like this, Jackson, Jackson Tart. John, can you explain the difference between the DIA, the defense intelligence agency

and the CIA? And did you work with the DIA and what would be their role in the Venezuela situation? And there's how many, there's like 15 total, like the MAPS agency, there's, how many agencies are 18? 18. 18, agent. There are 18 intelligence agents. I'm going to sound a little bit not very nice in this, uh, with this answer, but the truth is, yeah, the truth is, um, DIA was like the joke, uh, the joke organization in, in government. Um, the purpose of DIA is to do defense analysis, but only as it relates to order of battle intelligence. This unit is here on the map and this unit's moving there. and that unit was over here and it's moving there, and elements of this one are moving here.

That's just in case we need to go to war, like, quickly with a country. So they do have analysts who will coordinate on CIA analysis. We agree, we disagree, you know, whatever. But one of the problems that DIA has is keeping employees because all their employees try to transfer over to the CIA. so we we tried to not have much to do with with dia they were always a joke organization to us but they've got their role for the pentagon and for what are often called the war fighters the country's war fighters you know they they do their order of battle thing

john we are number seven in the country on rumble oh my gosh we've started something new over on youtube you can now join uh you can now join the uh deep program I don't know what the right way to put it is. You can join the deprogrammed thing on YouTube. It's like, I'm on the air. I can't check this right now. But thank you to, you know, the team backstage for setting that all up. First, our first member appears to be Deanna M34.

Thank you. Hey, thank you. Thank you. Okay. And so, yeah, no ads right now. So that's weird. Number seven, but no ads. I don't know.

That's strange. Okay. So I guess we should move over to the, the mega civil war, yeah? Yeah. Ted, I pulled up a couple, hold on a second. And we do have an ad coming, but go ahead. I pulled up a couple of quotes.

There's a terrific associated press piece. There was an AP reporter that was in the convention and took some great notes. So here are some of the most notable moments from the four-day conference. Ben Shapiro, co-founder of the conservative media Daily Wire set the tone with the first speech after Erica Kirk opened the convention. He attacked fellow commentators in deeply personal terms, saying some of the rights most popular

figures are morally bankrupt. Candice Owens, listen to this quote, Candice Owens has been vomiting all sorts of hideous and conspiratorial nonsense into the public square for years. Here's another quote. Megan Kelly is guilty of cowardice, because, because she refused to condemn Owens for spreading unsubstantiated theories about Kirk's death. Tucker Carlson's decision to host Nick Fuentes was an act of moral imbecility.

It says an hour later, Tucker Carlson took to the same stage and mocked Shapiro's attempt to, quote, de-platform and denounce people who disagree with him. Tucker said, I watched it and I laughed. Ben Shapiro, this is Steve Bannon. Ben Shapiro is a cancer, and cancer spreads. And then Megan Kelly belittled Shapiro as just a marginal figure in the conservative movement and said their friendship is now over.

She said, quote, I resent that he thinks he's in a position to decide who must say what, to whom and when. And it just goes on. It's a schism mostly over Israel and anti-Semitism. It's fascinating, right? So we were talking about it before the show. And I'm going to leave a lot of space for Robbie to chime in here because, I mean, we need to hear from someone who lives in this world. I just thought my question was, you know, as a former Democrat, as a lefty, you know, I'm from a party. The Democrats don't allow the big debate between true progressives, like actual leftists inside the Democratic Party and the corporatists who run the DNC and run the policy.

party and allow and basically quash people like Bernie and AOC and people like that. So, you know, is what's going on is what we saw a turning point, which is not really the Republican party, right? It's more like a CPAC, but like it's like or something else. But the point is, is that is that the sign of a movement that's allowing vigorous, open debate and, you know, a constructive dialogue that's like basically like we're going to yell at each other and we're going to figure it all out? or is it chaos and disintegration and schism, you know, coming to the four?

Which is it? Or is it both or is it something else? It's both. It's both. And just one thing I just kind of point out real quick about people have about anti-Semitism rising up on the right. I don't think that you're seeing any more Jew hatred on the right than you are on the left. But the issue is, is that on my side of the political spectrum, the right, is Israel is regarded as not an ally of the friend

not ally of the United States, not a friend of the United States but a manipulative parasite at best or an out-and-out enemy at the worst. The problem is that Israel's always called the Jewish state. So if you level a criticism against Israel, you're automatically branded as an anti-Semite. Yeah.

Well, you got to remember. And supporters of Israel, that's what they do. they make us their business like if you poke your head out like a mere cat they fucking chop it off and one thing y'all got to remember is that people on the left have been calling people like me for eight years a nazi a white supremist calling us all these names well what that's done is that it's made people like me say you call me whatever the hell you want i don't care that's what this is it's just like the how they used to just scream the racism button all the time by them me, the DNC. They use it so much of lost office power. It's the same thing that's going on here,

but this time it's coming from the pro-Israel Republican orthodoxy, and that's the split. And that's why, you know, you can rightly say if you conflate anti-Israel with anti-Semitism, then sure, you can say anti-sympatism is right on the rise on the right, because we're the only ones talking about it. And, of course, we've got Fernie here coming in to give her two cents. It's important. The cat's got to have an opinion. That's a progressive cat, if I've ever seen one. So, yeah, I mean, so it is fascinating. The part that, like, I find really fascinating is how right-wing politics in 2025 is so personal, right? I mean, it's obviously a reaction to social media and all this, but, like, I can't remember any time in politics where, you know, it used to be,

like, at least nominally about the ideas, like, you know, your idea sucks. Your idea is toxic. my idea is great. This is really like Ben Shapiro is a cancer. Cancer spread. It's so personal, right? It's like, it sounds, I mean, it's just a reflection of our time, right? But it's also like, how does that affect the way that the conservative movement is viewed? Does it sound like a bunch, like I view it, I'm of a certain age as like a bunch of squabbling kids. But, you know, is, does, is that normal for younger people yeah no for sure i mean all you got to do is go on reddit and yeah for an hour and you'll see and but one thing that i really want to point out though and i can't emphasize this enough the worst thing that you could do is someone that has a normal

nine to five job it doesn't matter if you are if you are a news anchor on fox news or if you work at logan health like what i did before getting doxed the worst thing that you can do to somebody is call them an anti-Semite, contact their employer, and get that person canceled because what you're doing is that you are destroying their means of earning a livelihood.

That's what you're doing. And so then what people on the right are having to do, they're looking at this. So, okay, so the trope is that there's a certain segment of the population that gate keeps everything. Look at you, Barry Weiss.

I will use, we will use the SEO, Google's SEO, and we will crush people. We'll make a, where you can't get married. We'll make it where you can't get a job. We'll make it where you are totally annihilated. I fucking hate that. And I've been violently opposed to that my entire life when it's directed towards, you know, I mean, might be other side, right, wingers, because

it will always be used for everybody. I mean, you just, it's just, it's just, it's, you can't have, you don't have a First Amendment. Like, I love people who say, oh, well, Ted, you can still post your cartoons to your website, you, you know, like, sure. Or go to go down. Yeah, right. Well, or you can post it to your website, but like if a tree falls in the woods, it doesn't make a sound, right? I mean, the whole point is, I mean, it's softest street, right?

You don't have a real First Amendment right if you're afraid of using it and for fear of losing your livelihood. I mean, that's just losing your livelihood literally means you can die. You can starve to death in the street. So it's not like a little thing. It's literally not that different than someone coming up behind you and shoot. you in the back of the hat. Yeah, very much so.

And, you know, here's the thing. So think about this. The Civil War that's helping on the right. One day, the conservative movement is dead. And I'd say good riddance. It should have been put in the graveyard many, many years ago. So John could go take a picture of the headstone. Honestly, God.

Well, I mean, the, like, so you're going to have to blow that out a little bit. When you say the conservative movement is dead, I mean, you can't just, like, drop that bomb and not explain it. Because, you know, from the left wing of wings perspective, they're in complete disarray. And, you know, we look at it and we're like, we're like, you all, y'all own the media. Y'all own the all, you know, both houses of Congress. You all have the White House. You all have the, you know, everything is going your way. You have all the state houses.

What more do you want? How's the conservative movement dead? Barry Wise should be very surprised to hear that the conservatives own media because that's obviously not true. Now, here's the difference between conservatives and the right. With the old school conservative guard, I'm talking about the likes of Ted Cruz, who votes for big government, who votes for omnibus bills, who's always looking for the next war, who's always looking for the next foreign adventure, who's looking to advance empire. Then you have people on the right like me who are really, honestly God, America first. We have homeless veterans living under every bridge. That's right.

We have 100,000 people died last year of drugs. What are we doing about them? We have people, my son's age, my daughter just turned 18, they're having to buy groceries on credit because wages aren't keeping up the cost of the cost of living. So that's the split. There's nothing in the, there's nothing about the United States that I want to conserve. I want to do a hard reset and blow it up. That's what Trump promised.

And instead, what we're getting is that you're getting conservatives and they are lying to the base, not because. they think they can trick the base, but because they're showing the pedophiles are on the Epstein list, we will self-emulate ourselves to protect you. That's what this is. And then to take it to a free speech perspective, Ben Shapiro is on the exact same page of this as Barry Weiss is. Tucker Carlson is one that's encouraging debate. Where would you put Barry Weiss politically? I mean, I put her on the right. Oh, she's a straight-up authoritarian bitch. I mean, can't make it any more clear? Okay. Well, I mean, you can be a left-wing authoritarian, too. I just don't think she is one.

Well, I mean, here's a litmus test that I have. Like, for example, I would not want to ever go to Greece because if you have my standing on immigration, I would get put in jail for speaking. No, no, no, no. The Greeks are, the Greeks are solidly anti-immigrant right now. But the point, but the point I'm trying to make is, though, if you have a political party ran on that, on that mega platform, you probably go the way of the Golden Dawn and. and get sent to a little island somewhere. No, Golden Dawn went the way that it went because it was not just advocating violence against foreigners. It was actually carrying out violent attacks, including arson attacks against foreigners.

Yeah, I did not know that. Yeah. So then I said incorrect it. So this one of the things I like about about this because I'm able to learn stuff. And that's one of the things that's really important. But the point that I'm trying to make is, if you want to look at right wing, what does that even mean if you're able to identify it if you can

qualitative if you're anti-abortion if you believe that life begins it begins a conception that's part of it the other part of it is that you also then take a step further that means that you also can't drop bombs on babies and kill them with bombs or starving to death with nations that used to be a that used to be a liberal thing yeah very much so and and now now you got no Shapiro

there in Pennsylvania signing his name of bombs so that's that's part of it so if you if um Robbie and and John I'd like to hear your thoughts but if you but if you were the god if you were the the the Lord of of of conservatism but you could snap your fingers and make happen what you wanted to have happen would would you quash the current schism like the you know overtly just basically like don't allow this to be expressed so that people like me can sit back and just enjoy with popcorn or Or would you let it play out or would you purge the, you know, the corporate side of the party?

I think Robbie's right here. I think you do have to purge. Listen, let me back up. If Donald Trump is going to truly remake the Republican Party in his image, that it's going to be a MAGA party rather than this weird Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, hybrid, neocon, you know, kind of sort of maga. Designed by animal designed by committee, like that famous. That's a great way, great way to say it. Like the animal designed by committee.

If he's going to really grab the bull by the horns, then he's got to, he's got to do it. And he's got to take a position on these issues. We should not have already gone this long, what, more than 12 hours after the end of the turning point convention without the president of the United States having made a statement. Now, J.D. Vance gave his talk there yesterday and took this odd, like the whole point of the J.D. Vance speech was to not criticize bigots. Like, is that really the message you want people to come out of here with? And also to make the argument that America is a Christian country, or if it's not, it ought to be. And so, you know, the thing is, on the one hand,

I thought, well, you know, over 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians. But of that, of that percentage how of them really are serious about it, very few, right? So I just wonder, like, there's a lot of cultural Christians, but there's not really Christian Christians who try to live it. So I'm just wondering, I mean, I just parenthetically, it's just a little detour. I found that super interesting and like a little dangerous politically. Yeah. Isn't that true? That's a big part of the problem. Again, with people trying to conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, because they're doing this on purpose they're doing this as a shield yes they're saying if you if you criticize israel and they always call it the jewish state that means if you criticize israel you're

criticizing jews writ large and then what then that that makes you a nazi well what do you do with nazis you don't welcome into your society you know you punch them in the face you the platform no listen to randy fine listen to laura listen to officer brandon tatum is probably the dumbest person if ever a failed of ever a perfect example of a failed abortion is that guy he's just stupid i don't know man lord loomer's pretty pretty she she's a necessitating an abortion yeah brother she is a genius compared to officer brandon tatum i don't know if he got dropping the head or what but talk about somebody just a moron oh 100% totally totally agree uh but i mean i have got more in common with a communist and a lefty

than I do with people who proclaim to be my allies because y'all rallied around me with everything that has happened, y'all are my friends, whereas you have Laura Lumer and her and her ill could put me in prison gladly if they could. Think about that person. If it served their purpose, yeah,

I'm sure that part's true. All right, so, I mean, before we move on to Ukraine, or I guess I want to talk about Barry Weiss next, but, I mean, so do you, you know, where are we, and all this. I mean, the Republican Party and the conservative movement should be moving triumphantly once the new year. Yeah. They should be because the Democrats have their heads up their rear ends. Yeah. I mean, they should be, I mean, it's so, I mean, but it looks like

the Republicans are going to lose the House and maybe even the Senate. The polls for the president are not good to be charitable. You know, the, for the first time, I think, the first time in like 10 years. President Trump doesn't seem connected to the American people and in his ability to read them. He doesn't seem to have that anymore. That's a

that's his superpower. And now it's gone, I think. I mean, am I misreading any of this? I mean, it just seems like both parties are in a race to political suicide to see who can fuck themselves up worse. What I'm

really what I'm hoping is that real lefties who are affiliated with the Democratic Party will see what's happening on the right and get involved because you you can make a ruckus all your needs is a handful of congressmen because Congress is so closely divided how we talked about before the show started you could if you could get five or six Democrats and five or six you know public public Republicans to work together you could bring the entire system down to its knees and that would be a glorious thing and that's the risk that the thing

the Democrats are playing here they look at the right they say well look how screwed up they are but yeah it's because there's an ideological civil war happening they have people

on the right like me looking at the Democrats saying okay we're saying a lot of the same things that y'all are anti-war

a lot of you are concerned about wages a lot of y'all do y'all say that you're pro-labor we're waiting for you to come over and join us where the hell are you

you're AWOL yeah well left to serve are really demoralized, and that's a whole, that's another topic for another time. Robbie, please, we're ready for that ad whenever you are. I'm going to take you out of here, and then we'll move on to whatever we're moving on to. Okay, so a few things, a few comments to get into. Doubled, thanks for the five bucks.

Was anyone surprised Bill Clinton was a regular guest of Epstein? Nope. Nope. He's a dog. Thanks for another five bucks, Jones Jameson. Are you disappointed by Tulsi Gabbard's performance? says Director of National Intelligence, I was excited when she was appointed, but at this point, I've given up on her. I'm with Jones on that. I have to agree. I expected more. I was told two

weeks ago that she wanted to see me, and I said that I am available to her 24-7 anytime, never heard a word again. Wow. Yeah. Well, okay. Maybe she's busy with Venezuela? I don't know. I'd like to think that's it, sure. Okay, let's read this. Let's get to an ad here. Still haven't tried 1775 coffee. Now's your shot. The 1775 starter kit just dropped, only a thousand units.

You're getting the bold, dark roast that hits hard, the smooth, medium roast, and the vitality mushroom coffee. For clean energy and laser focus, no crash, all single origin, small batch, toxin free and mold-free, plus you're also getting a gold spoon clip because freedom isn't scooped with plastic, a frother, strong enough to stir up your coffee and your mother-in-law's opinions, and a black 1775 tumbler. $170 worth of coffee in gear. It's for 99.

It's for the ones who've been watching 1775 blow up on Rumble and wondering if it's actually worth it. Spoiler, it is. Go to 1775coffee.com slash studio and grab your starter kit before they're gone. Bold beans, clean fuel, and a morning routine that stands for something just like Rumble does. By the way, just a per apropos of nothing, John, I just read an interesting piece about how it's really, you should never drink non-filtered coffee. like through a you know what are those things called like a you know what are those things called like a like a press like yeah like a french press you should like it apparently um there's not causation but there's a strong correlation between cancer and people who use um like that kind of coffee as

opposed to through a filter so you definitely if you're a coffee person want to use filtered coffee seriously okay i've i've done both but you know now now you know wow okay um yeah sorry don't mean to be a bummer uh exclusively unfiltered coffee and i drink it all day long well it's never too late to change i have a i have an amazing coffee maker um that a fan was kind enough to gift me through my Amazon wish list. It's a it's a Dutch thing, the technoverm. It's like the gold standard. It's kind of like a good Christmas gift to ask for because it's like three, four hundred bucks, but it's like makes fucking great coffee too. Um, Tusk C says Robbie should be a union Democrat. I agree with that, although not a Democrat. Yeah. Daddy of triplets, 10 bucks. Thanks very much.

How do we overcome the current tyrannical type actions of the presidency and government and avoid it in the future? Well, it's a massive question. Where is the breaking point of a capitalist society also a massive question? I'll take, if you don't mind, John, I'll take a shot at the second part. Sure thing. So Marx suggested that the capitalist system had a natural tendency towards monopoly and aggregation of wealth and rising income inequality. He called it pretty well for the next 200 years. And he said that ultimately a crisis of overproduction, be the end of it that would lead to collapse. And it seems like we have that now with a lack of affordability. I mean, if our society is capable of producing massive amounts of consumer goods,

but if people can't buy them, and that seems to be increasingly the case, that could be the beginning of the end. The problem is collapse is bad. Revolution is better than collapse because collapse can lead to, you know, sort of, you know, something much worse. Look at the Soviet Union. after 1991, that was very, very bad. In terms of overcoming the tyrannical actions of the presidency, I think we're a lazy fucking people. You know, we keep hoping that like peak oil or something will do our work for us, but the truth is nothing substitutes

for rolling up our sleeves, grassroots activism, street demonstrations. We have to do this ourselves. I mean, politics isn't something you watch on TV. It's something you do personally, and we're not. But anyway, what do you think, John? Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right. You know, we're in this, we're in this odd period where there are a lot of different things going on at the same time. And what I mean is we've got something of an imperial presidency, and it's not specific to Donald Trump.

The Democrats are doing it or adding on to it at the same time, where the executive has been usurping authority from the legislative and the legislative. just stands by and lets it happen. At the same time, the judiciary has moved farther and farther to the right, and I don't necessarily mean politically so much as I mean constitutionally, allowing the executive to usurp this power. And so we're off-kilter. We're out of balance here. Richard Nixon could only dream of this imperial presidency.

That's exactly what I was thinking. There was a period, I'm sure you remember, Ted, we were kids, we were teenagers or preteens where Nixon made a trip to London and really, really loved the uniforms that the Palace Guard wore with the big hats with a feather coming out of the top. And he ordered the Secret Service to wear uniforms like that. Subtle. Yeah, seriously. And people just, you know, rebelled.

and they ended up selling the uniforms to a local high school marching band and in Dale Virginia but you're right what we're seeing today and is considered to be normal is something that Nixon just fantasized about the personalization of the country

and the person of the presidency was something that Nixon loved too and like I remember one time it was like this is breaking news a special report if you remember those And it was like, I remember vividly, it was like, the president has a cold. And it was like, who gives a shit? Yeah.

But, all right, we have two more things to get to. And only seven minutes to get to him, so we should do that. Let's talk about Barry Weiss. So 60 Minutes was planning to run a segment. It doesn't seem like it should be that controversial about where they interviewed some of the Venezuelan nationals who were sent to the El Salvador Gulag, the Seacot prison. And obviously, you know, I'm sure they had very bad things to say about it, right, about being mistreated. Barry Weiss basically quashed it and said more reporting was done.

The producer pushed back saying that they had, like, literally checked every single source five times. Barry Weiss complained that the White House hadn't commented their own side, but the producer pushed back that they had, in fact, reached out to various members of the administration all of whom had refused to comment. So if refusal to comment basically can quash a piece, then that effectively allows 60 minutes to be censored by the government. You know, this was exactly what we were afraid of when an ideologue like Barry Weiss got appointed chief editor of CBS News's division,

despite having no experience whatsoever on the hard news side of anything. I'm going to say I believe the producer here. And I think, and I also think it's important. And I think it matters, even though 60 Minutes is a shadow of what it used to be. I agree. I agree with the producer. I mean, I think what the producer described actually happened. Yes.

Yeah. And so the question is, does it matter? Yeah, it matters. So this is another part of this bigger problem that the media do what they're told to do. The media are all politicized, both on the right and the left. we're not getting real media from anybody we have to go out and find it ourselves in just bits and pieces that's where we've been left yeah well it reminds me john of like when we were growing up and we were taught like well how did soviet citizens you know analyze the news right and they'd be like well

we read provda we read his vestia um you know we and they figured it out they read between the lines yeah like the base but basically it's detective work it's not you can't just sort of believe what you see or what you read or what you hear that's right so so very wise how long is she how long is she for this world i say she's not going to last forever i mean wow black rock is not going to like put up with her i i think she was black rock's preferred candidate i really do i do i do i do she's She's pro-Israel to the point of what I would consider to be a Zionist extremist. Oh, I agree with that. I think they like that just fine.

Quick question. Tommy Doc, who's the female bronze bust over your left shoulder on the bookcase? Mine? Yeah, yours. Oh, no. No female. I've got three bronze busts. One is on the far right is Jose Marti.

In the middle is George Dilboi. the very first Greek-American to receive the Congressional Medal of Honor. And then the one on the left is that Soviet Academy Award I told you about. Oh, that's awesome. Hammock, thanks for the five bucks and much appreciated. Don't knock things down. You're all attached to wires. Yeah, seriously.

I've done that where I pull everything. And also, John Harth wants to know, with three minutes left, how are your teeth doing? Oh, thank you. I'm struggling with my teeth. Yeah, thanks for asking. Are you on antibiotics and stuff? Yeah, I sure am. Isn't that amazing? That's the Soviet one? So awesome. Isn't that great? I love it. That is fantastic. By the way, that Soviet chick is hot. She is, right? You know, she's definitely. Hey, so I think the Ukrainian secret intelligence services are

They're trying to basically make the job of Russian general, basically like being al-Qaeda number two. So what's with the Russians that they can't protect their generals on their own city streets? You know, this is like the dirty little secret of the Ukraine war. The Ukrainians have infiltrated Russia, and they're able to operate there on a clandestine basis and get away with it. It's got to be, like, driving the FSB insane. It's got to be.

It's got to be. And honestly, if I were Vladimir Putin, heads would be rolling at the FSB. I'd be furious. I mean, this is the third general that they've lost this one. Yeah, right, right. And these aren't the guys. And obviously, it's the Yuckees. It is.

It's them. It has to be. Who else? Literally nobody is. It's not like the guy's ex-wife, you know. That's right. that is right man so so okay so even as trump is um trying to uh basically um you know start war with venezuela and seizing another oil tanker by the way um so by the way i read that there's a

what is it a hundred each tanker has roughly a hundred million dollars worth of oil inside so it's not nothing it's not small potatoes um but uh but he's now his new goal is he would like to announce peace between Russia and Ukraine by Thursday, Christmas Day. Yes. Going to happen? Doesn't look like it to me. No, I don't think so. But the Russians have been saying all the right things the last 24 hours or so.

The Russians are saying, well, it's possible. Sure, it's possible. We'll see. I think that's pretty dramatic. I mean, I think the holdup is the Ukrainians. I mean, they just seem like they haven't really made meaningful concessions, at least that have been leaked out. I mean, it's possible that they're.

you know, privately. But it's like, I think it would have been leaked. You would think. Yes, agreed. So, all right. Well, so thanks everyone for watching. Sorry, it was a, it's always a fast-moving show. The hour always goes by fast, and we really appreciate you guys.

So please like, follow and show of the show. We are here Monday through Friday. And therefore, we will be back tomorrow, Tuesday at 9 a.m. And we'll be back Wednesday and Friday as well. We'll have a rerun show on Christmas Day. stay tuned for the TMI show with me and Manila Chan coming right up. And at 11 o'clock Eastern Time, we're doing a makeup show of the DMC America podcast from last week with Scott Stantis. Scott had the flu like everybody else did. And I guess everyone else is going to have the flu who didn't get the flu.

So anyway, thanks, John. See you later. Thanks, Ted. Bye-bye. Thank you.