DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Pentagon Investigates Mark Kelly Over “Illegal Orders” Video | DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Today we discuss:• The Pentagon Investigates Senator Mark Kelly (D-AZ) for Democratic Video Telling Troops to Disobey “Illegal Order.” Is It Treason or Just the Law?• As Ukraine Gets Closer to a Deal with Russia and Russia Meets with the US in Abu Dhabi, European Nations Are Getting Skittish About Russia. France Calls for a Bigger Army as Chief Says the French Must Sacrifice Their Kids; Poland and Croatia Bring Back the Draft. Paranoia or Smart Planning?• Trump Had a HealthCare Idea. Republican Congressmen squished it.• Why Don’t Zoomers Protest? Things Aren’t OK, Boomer.JOIN US LIVE ON RUMBLE!https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowFOLLOW TED:https://rall.com/https://x.com/tedrallFOLLOW JOHN:https://www.instagram.com/realjohnkiriakouhttps://x.com/JohnKiriakouLISTEN ON SPOTIFY:https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuLISTEN ON APPLE MUSIC:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-john-kiriakou-and-ted-rall

Good morning. It's Tuesday, November 25th, 2025, and you're watching D. Program with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou. Thanks for joining us, and good morning, John. Good morning, Ted. How are you? I'm doing good. So we have lots to talk about, and this is the last live show of the week. So we have to get, we have to try to anticipate what's going to happen for the next five days. or so. So let's talk about sort of the options on the menu. The Pentagon is investigating Mark Kelly, Senator, military veteran and former astronaut, Senator from Democratic Senator from Arizona, for his role in the video urging American troops to disobey illegal orders. Also, lots of stuff going on with Ukraine. The U.S. met with Ukraine with Russia in Abu Dhab. the EU is starting to draft its citizens, and even the French are contemplating, restoring draft registration, maybe even the draft conscription. Trump actually had not a great, exciting idea,

but he actually had a health care idea for the first time. So that was that any Republican president has actually made any major moves on health care. So that's notable, but the Republican Congress is squishing it. And finally, the zoo. are not protesting, and an old enemy of mine who were writing for the New York Times. But had a good piece, Brian Nyhan, had a good piece about why that might be. And, of course, I would love to talk to you about the designation of a fictional organization as an official State Department designated terrorist organization. So lots to talk about.

lots to talk about let's talk about mark kelly first let's do it you know in a normal world ted i would be outraged i would be up in arms i would be probably halfway through writing an op-ed about this right now this is this is exactly what we shouldn't be doing as a country attacking people for freedom of speech but i'm of two minds here Number one, nothing is going to come with this because it's going to end up in the courts and the courts are going to kill it. Mark Kelly has the same freedom of speech that every American has and he can argue that he was exercising his free speech by doing this democratic advertisement telling people not to obey illegal orders.

On the other hand, I understand why Donald Trump is furious. about this, because this is a part of that same tired Democratic trope, Democratic Party trope that Donald Trump is so out of control that he's going to initiate a coup attempt at the end of this term and he's going to try to remain as president for a third term. No, he's not. He knows that when he says that in public, that it drives the Democrats crazy. And so he enjoys, doing it. And he asks Steve Bannon to do it. He's not going to remain on his president. Besides, he's going to be 82 years old and he may not be alive in three years. Who knows? But the Democrats, in my view, just fell right into the trap like they always do. And then

they make themselves look worse because already they tried the Russia thing, making it up out of whole cloth with the help of their friend John Brennan. And that didn't work. And now they're urging people to resist the president because, of course, he's going to initiate a coup attempt. I'm tired of this silliness. I really am. I mean, so do you really think it specifically about this idea that Trump would illegally try to remain for a third term as opposed to, you know, something else? Like, for example, troops who participate in ice raids and maybe are not following proper procedures or something else. invading Venezuela, you know, there's so many, I mean, American troops are constantly asked

in order to do things that are sketchy. But let's look at Venezuela for a minute. Nobody's going to stop Donald Trump from invading Venezuela, Democrat or Republican, because Congress has ceded that authority. Congress has not declared war on another country since December the 8th, 1941. There was no declaration of war for Korea, no declaration of war for Vietnam, or Grenada, or Panama, or Afghanistan, or Iraq, or anything else. They have cheated that authority. And so if they don't want Donald Trump to invade Venezuela, then they should pass legislation disallowing him. Which they could do.

Which they easily could do. He could do it today if they wanted to. Right. Well, that's true. I don't think he's up in his way, I mean, it does seem like the Markelly thing. It's part and parcel with the 51 former intelligence officials letter. You know, it's a form of, I don't know, it's not quite lawfare, but it's a form of using official status or former official status

and in order to throw your weight around and try to throw a wrench in the works. and I can definitely see why Trump would be absolutely enraged by that. Oh, sure. I mean, the thing is- Enrage him. Well, on the other hand, yeah, and they're trying to enrage him. Yeah. On the other hand, I mean, it is true that, you know, as we've talked about here before, recently,

I mean, there is a problem for people in the military, and I don't think it's a Trump problem. I think it's baked into the system where it's like, you know, if you train military people to say you must, you must follow orders. And then, you know, but then, well, not illegal orders. And then you know as well as I, better than, you know, 99 and 99, 100% of the population, what happens when you try to get the U.S. government to follow its own laws, you know, you're the one who gets, you know, targeted and sent to prison. I mean, so you get court-martialed.

If you're in the military, you disobey orders, you know, that's insubordination. And you get court-martialed. and you go to the brig, you know, you're almost, I mean, it's almost impossible to argue as a successful defense. Well, I was, I was disobeying an unlawful order, sir. Right. It is. It is. It's difficult. But if, if an order is clearly unlawful, you're already taught, you're already trained to deny the order, to refuse the order. Although you know that in reality, I mean, I would just think if I were in the military, You're just sort of like, yeah, yeah, I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to disobey an unlawful order,

but we all know I'm not going to because following orders is the better road to survival and promotion. But the thing is, though, look at it this way. This PSA that the Democrats came up with was not, or maybe should not have been aimed at enlisted men. It should have been aimed at enlisted men. It should have been aimed at. the generals true because that's very true the generals know what's lawful and what's not lawful and we already know that there have been a host of generals who have so far quietly opposed a lot of don't trump what what don't trump has has been ordering to the point where he's dismissed a bunch of them but rather than do a PSA which is really just propaganda yeah should have discreetly been

meeting with the joint chiefs of staff. Well, would the joint chiefs have taken a meeting with them? At the very least, the joint chiefs would have taken letters from them. But yeah, I think if the House Minority Leader or the ranking member on the Armed Services Committee wants to meet with you or the Senate Minority Leader or the ranking member on the Senate Armed Services Committee wants to meet with you, yeah, you'll take that meeting. You know, John, I also think this letter was bad politics. Right now, the American people are very clear in their polling that they're pissed at both parties for not for not caring about their concerns about, you know, their ability to pay their bills.

Exactly. And to a lesser extent, health care. And they want the establishment, both parties, to cut, you know, to cut the shit, quit with the internet scene feuding and quit with the focuses on, you know, foreign adventurism. and focus on the problems of the American people, which are really serious. You know, I mean, prices are soaring and salaries are stagnating or, you know, in the danger of falling off a cliff

once the AI revolution really comes to pass. I mean, it's bad politics. The Democrats are still focused on where the anti-Trump party and it's like, dude, there's not going to be any anti-truth. There's not going to be any Trump in three years. That's right. Where's your, I mean, just yesterday I was reading an idea. Sorry, come up with an idea.

Yeah. Tell us what you're going to do about. affordability you know i mean it's like oh we need to message that yeah but you have to have something to message and let me add something in three years jd vance marco rubio and ted cruz are going to be killing each other over who gets to be the next maga republican nominee okay so while they're killing each other the democrats are coming up with a well-honed unified message and they're not. No, it's a, well, they just don't have one.

I mean, they can't, I don't even, they're so de, they're so bereft of ideas. And that's true, even about the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. I don't hear anything exciting coming out of Bernie or AOC or Rokana or anyone like that. No, in fact, AOC just took herself out of a primary race against Chuck Schumer. She also made an announcement yesterday that was mocked. the New York Post saying that that she stands behind Hakeem Jeffries, that he is her leader. Hakeem Jeffries. Are you nuts?

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, and then there's that guy who wanted to run, you know, after Momdani won. I forget his name. And basically, AOC and everyone else just said, oh, yeah, he wanted to primary Hakeem. And they all like, no, no, no, you can't primary Hakeem. Like, what good is a progressive? if they're literally squashing on their own, they're sitting on their own people.

That's right. That's right. Nothing good is going to come out of the Democratic Party as it stands right now. Before we move on from Mark Kelly, I did think it was worth noting that he's the only military veteran who's been targeted

and he's being targeted under the universal, the uniform code of military justice, right? Instead of the others who are all civilians, the DOJ could have gone after them, I guessed, for under the Sedition Act, but they're going, they're using the military option. I think it's because he's still a reservist.

Yeah. I think. Is that right? That's my understanding as well. Yeah. All right. So are you up for banging out, answering some questions? Sure.

All right. So this is Venezuela related, but I think it's, we, you know, from Gregory Battis, CFA. What do we think about the no-town that's a notice to airmen issued Friday for, Venezuela. In other words, don't fly over Venezuela if you are like in a civilian craft or whatever. Does that mean the U.S. will strike, John? It means that the U.S. is keeping open the option to strike. So we would have to assume, yes, that they've made a, this is the way I read it. They've made a decision to strike. It may come as soon as, you know, the next couple of days, but they're going to keep that option open. They're just warning civilian pilots. We may.

may, we may not begin. Yeah, they're going to take advantage of the Thanksgiving weekend and the news and the news blackout. Right, exactly. For sure. You know, so could it, at this point, I would assume there's lots of American drones already active over Venezuela. No, there would have to be. Remember, and we've talked about this in the past, warfare is changing. And sooner rather than later, we're going to get to a point where very few actual human beings are going to be used in battle.

It's going to be drones and robots. It's a Terminator. Yeah. Terrifying. It is. Okay. Thank you, F you so, for the dollar. You know what?

I'm not going to say thank you for the dollar. There's a profane comment, which I enjoyed reading, but I'm not going to read on the air. Okay. Cyber In Jazeero asks, what does? you, John, think of Seibel or Sebel Edmonds? I don't even know who that is. I ask because with all the 9-11 stuff happening, she called Tucker a limited hangout. I am not going to pull punches here. I think Sebel Edmonds is a fraud. She is not a whistleblower. She is a liar. She makes things up out of whole cloth to promote her own podcast, her own career. She has attacked very close dear friends of

mine as traitors, using the word traitors, accusing my best friend's wife of being a mole for al-Qaeda, having an FBI investigation launched against her. She was exonerated, of course. Sebel Edmonds is the only person in the history of veteran intelligence professionals for sanity to have the Sam Adams Award for Integrity and Intelligence revoked. She is not permitted to participate in VIPS events, and she's been cut off. She is not a part of the whistleblower community. I personally have nothing whatsoever to do with her. Okay, that's free and that's totally clear.

Oskinazoid 5887 says hello from Vienna, Australia, capital of the spies. What do you think about the Kurdish issue? It is. Will there be a Kurdish state in one of the four states with, the Kurdish population. So that would be Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and what am I missing? Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey. Oh, Iran. I forgot about Iran. Well, so, you know, there's a great book about the Treaty of Versailles called Paris 1919.

And basically, they vividly describe how when all the cartographers at the end of World War I were drawing up all the new borders that most of which we know today, including carving up the Ottoman Empire, creating the borders of modern-day Iraq and so on, that the Kurds were literally like schoolchildren waiting out in the hall, in the hall of mirrors, as the big boys, the Brits and the frogs and the crouts were inside carving up the world. And literally, the Kurds were like, can we have a...

It's like, don't worry, we'll get to you. And literally, they kept kicking them down the road every day. This went on for months. And finally, the conference wrapped up, and literally the great powers forgot to create an independent state for Kurdistan. It wasn't even, it was just an oversight. It wasn't like they, you know, it wasn't personal.

There was no animus. And this literally, that was a hundred years ago. And here we still are. And the world has just never gotten around to figuring out. They have an autonomous state in northern Iraq, with Erbil, as the capital, right? So, Erbil. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know the answer to that. because it seems like it's like a Taiwan situation.

They're going to be living in permanent diplomatic limbo. I have always felt a special closeness to the Kurds. From the very beginning of my career at the CIA, I worked very closely with both the Kurdish Democratic Party of Iraq and the patriotic union of Kurdistan, also of Iraq. I made lasting long-term friendships with Kurds, My own personal belief is the Kurdish people are among the most heroic people on earth. And they have been screwed time and time again by all of the world's powers.

I remember Masoud Barzani, the head of the KDP, being very proud to tell me that he was born in this period between 1946 and 1949, where there was very briefly an independent Kurdistan. And then it went away. The Turks will never allow a Kurdish homeland. The Iraqis, I think, have gone as far as they're going to go. The Iranians certainly would not allow one. The Syrians, we know for a fact, won't allow one because they've already colluded with the Turks to stop something like that from happening. There are also Kurds in Armenia. There are a handful of Kurds in Azerbaijan. Neither of those countries. are willing or even have the ability to allow an independent Kurdistan.

So as much as it hurts my heart to say it, I don't think there will ever be an independent. What is the Iraqi Kurdistan, which seems to me like that's the biggest game, that's the big game in town, right? Yeah. What if they declared independence? What would happen? The fight would be over the oil, because most of Iraq's oil is in the Kurdish areas. That's really, listen.

So there would be war. There would be war. If Kurdistan in Iraq were in the western desert where there's nothing but sand, I don't think anybody would care. But because that's where the oil is, that's where the fight would be. If you said, thanks for another dollar. Thoughts on the release of RFK. He says, felching.

I'm pretty sure filching is probably the word he's looking for. Layden love poems. Just the funny thing I heard today. Could be felching. I don't know. know. I'm not getting into the definition of felching. No judgment. No judge. Yeah, no, it's cool. It's 2025. You want to felch, you felch. So, all right. Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I have to admit that I think, you know, so what he's referring to here, I'm assuming he's a

he, is this story between about these that's been breaking all over like the Atlantic and places like that, and the New York Times, about the sort of affair of the heart between this disgraced New York reporter. What was her name? Not Lizza. Liza's the, there's two, it's NU-Z-Z-O, N-U-Z-O. She was 30, and she was basically sexting R-F-K, Jr. And then, right, and Nowadays, her now former husband or former fiancé is like all over the place, disgracing himself by ratting her out in public and finding out everything that, you know, basically releasing the texts that he found between. I mean, it's like, man, they're acting like such a, like such a pair of little kids.

She just wrote a book about it, about her love for RFK Jr. She says by all that she didn't sleep with him. RFK says she never, he never slept with her. basically it was just like they were hot for each other but nothing ever came of it why do we care john we shouldn't care but so many americans believe that rfk is a scumbag including many members of his own family uh believe he's a scumbag who's unable to control himself and is nothing but bad bad bad for the country and so it's out there we see the same kind of of news on a on a lesser scale, but the same kind of news about Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who lost an eye in Afghanistan,

who can't keep his zipper up and can't keep control of himself, despite the fact that he's married to one of the most beautiful women in Texas and has an 18-month-old at home. This is, I mean, this is Washington. Men are pigs? What can you? But in this case, this was a zipless fuck, to quote Erica Jong. Yeah. That's true. But the thing is, is people. People want to hate on EarthK because he's his comeback. Yeah, I mean, I have a hard time, like, being mean to him just because he did so much good work for the environment and also for during the 2004 Ohio election controversy.

And not to mention what happened to his fucking father. I mean, I just, you know, I mean, he has to be broken, you know. He's got to be. Plus he loves animals. Okay. U.S. Triple X. A.

Rod, thanks for the dollar. Are we saying that there's zero doubt in our mind that Trump doesn't leave, refuses to leave, let's just say, or causes an illegal military action, I guess, in 2008, 2009? I wouldn't say zero doubt, because zero doubt is a big thing. I mean, it's possible. You know, we're students of history, John. So it's possible. We are.

But I'm going to, I don't think it's, I think it's highly unlikely. Highly unlikely. And I'm going to draw a parallel. there was not an attempted coup. There was just a rumbling of an attempted coup in 1940 where a group of generals began or initiated the earliest kind of plotting against FDR, Franklin D. Roosevelt. When they approached a handful of generals

who were opposed to any such thing. They were outed. FDR didn't want to make a big deal about it. He didn't want to parade them in front of the press as traitors. And so they were forced into retirement. But I'm confident. And there was also kind of the Douglas MacArthur kind of flirtation with the seizure of power too. And then he was fired.

Right. Regardless of how popular he was. And he probably could have gotten himself elected president. But he was fired, and that was the end of it. And I think, you know, having worked with these people at the Pentagon, general officers, we have a lot of generals. We have like 880 generals at the Pentagon. I'm confident that they're going to universally put down their foot.

There aren't very many generals like, what's his name, formerly of DEA that just got a pardon last year? Michael. Flynn? Flynn. there aren't many Mike Flynn's at the Pentagon. He was definitely the exception to the rule. David Day, 9967, he never catches us live. What's happening in Sudan, and why is no one talking about it in the media?

Yeah, what's happening in Sudan is a civil war, and oddly enough, the Saudis are on one side, the Emirates are on the other side, and we're seeing a genocide take place. True crimes against humanity, women, children, the elderly, the sick, just being slaughtered wholesale. And nobody cares because there's no oil and there are no... As far as we know.

As far as we know. And there are no rare earth metals. You know, I was thinking about, you know, we talked about Tajikistan yesterday. And it's like, you know, so there's a gruesome civil war there from 1993 to 2001 or two or so. And no one gave a shit about it. And by some accounts, as much as 20% of the entire population was killed, either from famine or war during that period. And then, you know, the grand irony is no one cared because, you know, there was no oil, there was no gas.

A few years ago, though, there's new technology of very deep oil drilling that revealed that, in fact, Tajikistan does have oil. You just have to drill a mile and a half down to get it. A mile and a half. But they can do it now. So they're getting it. So the Tajik's are going to have money. They might even be able to pay back those Chinese belt and road loans. Ted, yeah.

I read an article recently. You just made me think of it about the deepest hole ever drilled. And the deepest hole ever drilled was in one of the former Soviet republics, and maybe it was Kazakhstan. And they got down like through the earth's crust. They went down a couple of miles. But then when they tried to go deeper, every time they would send. down the drill, it would melt. Right. And so they just couldn't go any lower. Yeah, it depends,

right? The Earth's crust is, I mean, as you'd expect, it's uneven. It's not the same width everywhere, right? So in places like, in some places, it's not that far down. I mean, we're sitting on top of a giant ball of burning molten rock. It's, it's kind of insane when you really think about it. It's spinning through space at thousands of miles per hour and you don't feel it. Like, you know, No wonder, like, you know, there's science deniers. They're like, none of this makes any sense. It doesn't feel real. Hey, Mike, oh, nine, thanks for the 20 bucks.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. Happy Thanksgiving. Appreciate you as well. Is Randy fine an Israeli agent or just a fellow traveler? That one's for you, John. Jeez, you know, I think probably just a fellow traveler. One thing about the Israelis, they're usually not so crude as to put their agents right in our faces. So I'm thinking that he's a fellow traveler.

Yeah. John, Phil Kats was listening to a recent interview with you, and you named Rick Prado. What did he do to be added to the list with Joe Rod? Rick Prado was the head of the CIA Counterterrorism Center's assassination squad. And his job was to go out every week and murder. people who as a rule had never been accused of a crime, had never been charged with a crime, had never been found guilty of a crime. They just showed up on a CIA list and were supposed to take the CIA's word for it that

they're bad people and Rick would just go out and murder them. Rick came to the CIA late in his career. He was recruited into the CIA by Jose Rodriguez and according to him, and according to, the Miami Herald and Vanity Fair Magazine, which did deep dives on Rick Prado. What made him qualified to join the CIA was that he had been a hitman for the Cali cartel. He was also accused of a double murder in Miami. It ended up never being solved, but the Miami police had credible evidence that Rick had committed this murder. Listen, I sat 20 feet from the guy. He was a nice guy. He said good morning every day. He'd buy coffees for everybody. He's a good guy.

But there you have it. There indeed. Okay. U.S. Triple X-A, Rod, thanks for the two bucks. Additionally, could they recall Mark Kelly and try him by military tribunal? Whatever that means. I think they could. I think they could. I don't think they'd have the balls to do it, but I think they could. I mean, he's a very popular guy. I mean, especially in institutional inside the beltway he's very popular he has major media support they love him he's been talked about as a presidential contender and remember he was one of the four finalists to be uh kamala harris's running mate yeah that's that's right sean pat 6882 by the way she might have won with him

uh sean pat 6882 thanks for the twenty dollars have a good thanksgiving to you as well Hamzabila, what do you think about Algeria purchasing SU57s from Russia? And do you think Russia, with the weight of war, could provide those jets? I'm sure they could provide them. You know, I bet they're old. I bet they're older models. What do you think? Yeah, I would think so.

I mean, the Russians aren't going to sell the Algerians anything like up-to-date and tasty. They're just not going to. They don't trust them enough. and not to mention the Algerians can't afford it, right? So, yeah, they're developing country. Sim Yong Yang, John, could we talk about Trump ending temporary protective status for Somali refugees in Minnesota? Wow, I was shocked when I read that.

Shocked. Listen, I understand that Trump has this reputation as a hater, right? And he lifts the protections on Venezuelans. He lifts the protections on Cubans. Okay, I get it. But Somalis? I mean, they're like Somalis and Sudanese and South Sudanese are the people that need the protection the most. I just don't understand this policy decision. It doesn't make any kind of sense to me.

Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is that not much is explained, and speaking of which, things that are not well explained, we should talk about Venezuela, but we have a few more questions. A little follow-up for the discussion about the Kurds. John, you say, but aren't the Assyrians in that desert? area and they're also stateless. Is that just because they're a smaller population that we don't care about them? They've never really agitated for independence, though. The capital of the Syria is Mosul. And Mosul, of course, is the, well, now it's the third largest city in Iraq. It used to be the second, but it was so decimated during the ISIS war that a lot of people

were killed, a lot of others left. It's also the military city of Iraq, the military headquarters of Iraq. And there's a large Christian population there as well. You know what? I have no problem with the Assyrians wanting independence or wanting autonomy or whatever. And Mosul should be their capital. Everybody gets a state. You know, who are we to decide who gets freedom and who doesn't?

Good point. FUSO, thanks for the extra dollar. thoughts on the California governor's race, which is, of course, becoming vacated by my really good friend, Gavin Newsom, in 28. I think, honestly, I think, you know, it's like Joe and I said to Henry Kissinger about the French Revolution. I think it's too early to tell. There's going to be a lot of candidates, and it's going to be, you know, that's how things roll there. They end up with like six or eight people, all of whom are pretty serious, and then like, you know, a bunch of weirdos down the ballot because it's ranked choice voting and the parties don't matter.

So really anyone can run and it's really easy. You don't need that many ballot petitions to petition signatures to get on the ballot. So I think it's pretty easy. Tammy, for you, John, is the CIA still sending missionaries into places like Sudan? And then we really need to talk about Venezuela. It's never been my experience that the CIA sends missionaries. That was specifically banned in 1975. coming out of the church committee.

Yeah, I've never heard of that. You would have to get a presidential waiver to do something like that, and that would be not forthcoming with most presidents. So I am just, as I said, at the top of the hour, by the way, please like, follow and share the show, and thank you all for watching. And we've decided we will be taking Wednesday, Thursday,

and Friday off this week. So we'll be back Monday. We're here Monday through Friday 9 a.m. But we will have some reruns on. So I think during the reruns, the live chats work. So we won't be here watching them or babysitting them, but you guys can talk to each other if you are so inclined. Robbie, if you have an ad, put it up whenever you're ready and I'll read it.

Okay, so let's talk about Venezuela. This freaks me out. So the U.S. State Department basically made up. this term. Well, Cartel de Las Solas, which is not, well, it's a term that exists, but it's not an organization. So basically, a bunch of opposition, now let me read this ad, and then we'll, I'll continue that. Still haven't tried 1775 coffee. Now is your shop, the 1775 starter kit just dropped only a thousand units. You're getting the bold, dark roast that hits hard, the smooth, medium roast, and the vitality mushroom coffee for clean energy and laser focus, no crash, all single

origin, small batch toxin-free, and mold-free, plus you're also getting a gold spoon clip because freedom isn't scooped with plastic. A frother strong enough to stir up your coffee and your mother-in-law's opinions and a black 1775 tumbler. $1770 worth of coffee in gears, yours for $99. This is for the ones who've been watching 1775 blow up on Rumble, wondering if it's actually worth it. Spoiler, it is. Go to 1775 coffee.com slash studio and grab your starter kit before they're gone. Bold beans, clean fuel at a morning routine that stands for something just like Rumble does. So, so Venezuelan opposition journalists a number of years ago came up with this term. Cartel de la Solis. Solis means stars. Stars in this case refers to the stars that Venezuelan generals have on their uniforms,

on their epaulettes, right? And so it's like what is the cartel of the stars? The cartel of the stars is basically a term that referring to corrupt military generals, usually corrupted by the drug trade, which is cocaine, not fentanyl. And it does not really affect the United States. States, as John, you've pointed out, very well. These are drugs that go to Africa and then from Africa, possibly to Europe and elsewhere. But basically, that's where they go. And so yesterday, the United States State Department, a major organ of the American government, officially designated this term, let's just say, as an official U.S. designated terrorist organization on par with, al-Qaeda or the Islamic State. They did not. It's, I mean, it literally would be like,

it would be like designating Spector from the 007 movies as an official U.S. State Department designated organization. I mean, so this is really surreal. I mean, we, you and I both think the odds are better than 50-50. We're going to see an airstrike against Venezuela this week. The justification for overthrowing Nicolas Maduro and his regime and killing people on the ground in Venezuela is that we're going after a non-existent organization that is non-existently terrorizing someone who are exporting drugs to a country that is not the United States and that those drugs don't even make their way to the United States anyway. And there's been no attempt whatsoever to sell this to the American public. There's no attempt, you know, we don't have any

government officials going on the air and saying, you know, Venezuela, they're evil and they suck. No, we're just going to do it. I mean, this is a weird way to have a war. Yeah, you can say that again. You know, I can only imagine the conversations that have taken place in the State Department. You know, when John Kennedy said, when John Kennedy called American diplomats the best and the brightest in in most cases they are they're the best in the brightest they went to the best schools best educations right i remember i remember working with a guy at the state department who was constantly making literary illusions like he'd say somebody would say oh you need to write a cable and say this and he'd say i'm not going to tilt at that windmill

and i remember thinking wow he is so well read so smart can you imagine sitting in the room when they're having this conversation about making this group which doesn't actually exist into a designated terrorist organization? Why not just declare the Republic of the government of the Republic of Venezuela a terrorist organization? Exactly. Exactly. Like we did with Libyians, let's say, but it would be iffy, but at least it would be, you know, you'd be what you'd be living with within the world of reality. Yes, you're exactly right. So why do they, why do you think they're, I mean, obviously they're wallowing,

they're relying on the ignorance of the American people and the fecklessness and the, and the incompetence of the American media and their inability to communicate to the American people. Like, where are the fact checkers when you need them? Yes, exactly. I mean, that's what it is, right? They're just like relying, it's just like stupid propaganda. It's like all the stuff about Trende Aragua taking over the entire country, this thing that nobody had ever heard of.

Right, nobody had ever heard of, which had never declared war on the United States and had never initiated an attack of any kind. Okay. Well, we're going to watch that. And I guess if things really blow up, we'll do a show over the weekend. But Patrick Crabtree, 7104, have we all seen or heard the new age of disclosures? documentary. Highly recommended. What would be your thoughts, John, on some of the characterization of CIA processes and USAP structures that they assert? I have not seen it out. Thank you. Okay. Big, big, big, big question from Longhorn Clemens to both love that moniker. Where do you think this escalating lawfare war goes? Oh, man. Biden weaponized DOJ and now Trump is clearly doing the same thing. Does this keep going to what? yeah in american politics it's always a race to the bottom and once you've opened a can of worms

it just keeps you know that's it the other side will keep doing it and everyone's going to forget who started it and it's not going to matter although the greeks would say that when pandora's box was opened and everything got out all the problems of the world got out the only thing that remained inside the box was hope oh it and and and Maybe the Cartel de Las Solas. But Manuel de Katt, what do we think about Twitter? Outing the Israeli, Russian, Indian, and African right-wing bot farms. Oh, yeah, that's a topic that our new junior producer pointed out.

Not Robbie. This is someone new. I don't know. I don't want to mention his name yet before we know that it's okay. But, yeah, that is a good point. I mean, so there's, so it turns out a lot of political speech on, on X is, of course, to me, this is like, there's, there's, I'm shocked, shocked, shocked to learn that there's gambling going on here. I mean, we all knew that this was the case, but it's, I guess it's interesting to see it documented. We knew that there were these massive operations. And I guess we do the same thing, too, right? Don't we? Yeah, we do the same thing. Sure, we do. We just hate when other countries do it. okay following up this is a follow up on the Somalia thing isn't it because welfare funds were abused or something like that and the money was transferred to al-Shabaab in Somalia I hadn't heard about

a transfer to Shabab but one of the things that that the administration is complaining about is that there is this massive welfare fraud but there's nothing to prove that any such welfare fraud is actually taking place. So that is certainly the narrative that we're getting from the White House and the Department of Health and Human Services. But it's one of those situations where we're just supposed to take their word for it. They're not offering up any proof. Here we go again. Fluidic poly. John, I like this question a lot. This is for you. How much does the CIA know about countries like China? Considering how little they knew about al-Qaeda, it would be a lot harder to infiltrate a country.

like China with its massive population and obviously it's different ethnicity yeah yeah totally the opposite is the truth um al-qaeda because al-qaeda wasn't the country you couldn't you couldn't you know put spies in your embassy there uh we didn't know where they were being trained they would move their training centers so you couldn't direct your satellites against them um they didn't have official communications a military that was communication so you couldn't intercept their communications. They didn't have graduate students in colleges around the universities around the United States

to recruit them, to send them back to work in their government. So it's completely different. It's far, far easier to work against China. And Al-Qaeda really needed you to be vouched for, if you read a book like inside the jihad or something like that. Someone had to say, you know, we know this, We know this, we know Al John. He's a, he's a good guy.

We can trust him. That's hard to get. Yeah, that's hard to get. That's right. Happy Tuesday, you, from Sean Whitman. Would we agree that a majority of the illegal drugs coming to the U.S. are not actually coming from Venezuela? Yes.

But are coming from China and other Asian countries. I'd say Mexico. Well, the accusation, at least as far as far as, fentanyl goes is that most of the fentanyls coming from china the chinese via mexico directly to the u.s they ship much much of it to mexico for shipment to the u.s and some of it to Canada to come in across the northern border so as far as fentanyl goes yes yeah that's that's totally my understanding as well if you so which get smart character represents you the most oh my god You don't have to answer that.

It's just funny. F.E. So is on a role today. Oh, yeah. Ray C. 2020. He heard the Pandora's Fox story. That's good. My mom loved that story.

She used to say it all the time. I like it. John, this is from Phenem Dachl floor. I can't pronounce that. What do you know about the Norwegians' involvement in supplying the Israelis with heavy water? Was the CIA involved, and have you ever worked with the Norwegians? I don't know why the Norwegians would have heavy water. I haven't heard that they had supplied heavy water to the Israelis.

But the Norwegians, I'll tell you a funny thing about the Norwegians, I never paid any attention to Norway when I was CIA until I was the executive assistant to the CIA's deputy director. And he used to talk about Norway all the time. And he used to always say that he was going to write a letter to the president for George Tenet to deliver asking that Norway become the 51st state. And he said, they might as well become the 51st state. They do literally everything we ask them to do anyway.

So they might as well have statehood. And that was a revelation to me because I had never encountered a Norwegian, you know, on an intelligence basis. I never had any occasion ever to work with the Norwegians. but it was it was my understanding at the end of my career that we were joined at the hip with the Norwegians Ex-inacci has another question for you John why didn't you promote your own podcasts when you were on Rogan and Dalton Fisher and then we'll get back to some of the topics yeah Rogan sent me a very long list of do's and don'ts they were actually all don'ts don'ts don't tell anybody the location in the

studio. Don't take any pictures. If you want a picture, Rogan will take the picture and give it to you. Don't describe the neighborhood that the studio is in. Don't describe the security measures at the studio. Don't tell anybody earlier than seven days out that you're going to be on the show, you know, stuff like that. It was, it was onerous. But one of the notes was I was not allowed to promote anything. And believe me, I had a shitload of things to promote. I'm sure. Ted and I complain all the time that we're not making any money. We're literally not making any money.

We do this because we like it. It's fun. We love the engagement. And we hope that we can build it into something eventually. That's true. But I really, really wanted to promote it on Rogan. And they told me. I think it would have, yeah, it would have taken us to the next level for sure.

Yes, we would have. So, all right. Let's talk about. So while we go to war, maybe, or war, against Venezuela. We are in, there's a, to quote, bedazzled, we're in danger of a terrible peace breaking out between Russia and Ukraine

or maybe just an end to the conflict, which is sort of the same thing. So the Americans have been meeting with the Russians in Abu Dhabi over the weekend. That seems to have wrapped up. The U.S. also met with the Ukrainians, as we talked about yesterday. and it's probably worth talking about how the Europeans,

I want to talk about this paranoia thing that's going on. Like basically, Europe is acting like, you know, as goes Ukraine, so goes the Baltics, and even so goes France, which is like, have you guys even looked at a map lately? But, you know, the French, I don't even understand this. So the French had military conscription until the 80s. They got rid of it. thank the lord i'm a french citizen i had to get a waiver for serving because i was in college for having to i would have i would have served um but they uh but anyway they so they're not

talking about bringing it back but they're talking about establishing a new paid military program i'm very unclear what the difference is between this and the current military that they have now which is like ours it's volunteer military you enlist but anyway my understanding is basically the French are looking to expand their military. The Croatia, Poland, other countries in Europe are bringing back the draft or some version of it like, sort of like, oh, you're not really drafted, but just that everyone has to be trained for military service in case there's a draft. So basically, everyone's skittish.

Is this just paranoia? Or do they really think that Vladimir Putin plans to invade eastern? Central and Western Europe. I can't imagine that they believe that. But Patrick Crabtree 7104 is alerting us to breaking news from CNN, from CIA, from CNN. Great. That the Ukrainians have accepted the peace deal. And I just went over to CNN and it says, breaking news.

U.S. official says Ukraine agrees to deal. Zelensky says much work ahead. Well, so let's talk about that. We were going to, we may have to table our, I do want to talk about the Zoomer thing, and we may have to do that next week. But this is obviously super important. The Ukrainians said they basically whittled down the talk, the 28 points to what, 18? Yeah. And so obviously there's been some modifications.

So, okay, Ukraine has agreed to a deal with the U.S. after negotiating, but Russia has not negotiated with, has not negotiated this deal yet. So it's too early to say the pieces at hand, isn't that true? Absolutely, yes. It's far too early to say pieces at hand. When Zelensky says much work ahead, much work ahead. And don't forget, we're finding ourselves now with Donald Trump on one side of this thing and the NATO leadership on the other side.

And so this is going to take time. I mean, I think my understanding is that one of the, the two of the points that were eliminated from Trump's plan were basically half demilitarization of the Ukrainian armed forces and also the requirement that Ukraine not join NATO. I think the Russians might be able to live with the first, but not the second. Not the second. The second is a red line for them.

I agree. But like I said, it could be a throwaway for the Ukrainians. It doesn't make any difference if Ukraine's in NATO or not. All the United States has to do is to declare that we have granted them major non-NATO ally status, the same as Australia, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea, Bahrain. It's the same as being in NATO. It's the same. Could the United States, I mean, sorry, could Russia agree to that?

Because effectively, it's like they're in NATO, but they're not in NATO. Right. Right. I mean, for the Russians, is this about symbolism, or are they actually worried about sitting on a powder keg right on their border? Yeah, I think the latter. I really do. So they would not be able to agree to that, to the U.S. Guarantee.

I mean, that's something that they don't get a vote in. All the United States has to do is just promise to protect. Ukraine. That's it. That's what non-NATO status is. The United States promises to protect you if another country invades. That's it. So Robbie is suggesting that maybe tomorrow we should do a full Q at A show, but we're not doing a show tomorrow, Robbie. So no, we're not going to do a Q&A show. But we can do that next week for sure. And once we get the Discord up and running, we can take some audio questions and see how that works, but we might have to do that Rumble only

because of YouTube's terms and we can't control what people are saying. Good point there. So, okay, well, let's talk about Ukraine. When the Europeans are saying that they're worried about an invasion, a Russian invasion, the fate of all of Europe hangs in the balance, are they just doing that because basically it's the military industrial complex and they're just trying to gin up the economy and it's that thing or you know there's no I just want to I know I asked this earlier but you're really sure they don't actually think that that the Russians are coming for them I don't I don't think that they believe the Russians are coming for them no I think that they're probably worried about little border

skirmishes, a drone crossing a border, probes, spy networks. Sure. But no, I really don't believe that any European country is genuinely afraid that the Russians are going to invade them. I agree. Or if they do, if they do think that, they're fucking insane. Yeah, they're nuts. Verbal Kent question for both of us. Why is NATO, why is for Russia joining NATO such a red line for Ukraine, but it wasn't for Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. I say, look at a map. Ukraine is right on the, right on the Russian border. And so were the three, so were the three Baltics.

Sure, but the Russia, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the Nazis came in through Ukraine in 1941. The Nazis did. Also, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Estonia, Estonia, joined NATO when the Russians still believed us when we said that we meant no harm, and it's a new era, and we're going to be partners and all this other stuff. Plus, those countries are so teeny tiny. That's the thing. And that's a long border that the Ukrainians have with Russia. Huge, yes.

And it's like, you're just not going to forget that. It's like, you know, it's like 9-11 times a million for them. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, very quickly, we should talk very quickly about this health care thing. So turns out Trump was willing to renew the Obamacare subsidies for a year. That was his plan. He took it to Congress.

And Congress, the Republicans in Congress, basically took a big shit on it and said, like, no, we're not going to do that. It's just, you know, we're just not going to allow that to happen. I mean, what's, it's kind of, you know, I mean, Marjorie Taylor Green before she issued during her resignation statement, said that one of the biggest problems the Republican Party has is that they've never come up with any kind of plan for health care. And it's an issue that Americans really, really care about. Looks like Donald Trump gets that.

So what does this say about the schism within the GOP? You know, I'm of the belief, Ted, that the Republican Party is in as much danger of having, a civil war as the Democratic Party is. Agreed. You know, we take the occasional dump on the Democrats here, and it's well-deserved. But the Republicans are in the same position. They pretend to be all unified right now, and that's because they're afraid of Donald Trump. But when Trump is no longer president or when he's such a-

He's the glue keeping it all together. Say that again? He's the glue keeping it all together. He's the glue. He's the one who holds the whole party together. this party doesn't know what it wants to be does it want to be a populist party which is what maga you know is supposed to be right now or does it want to be the party of of john mccain and lindsay grant and it's it pretends right now it wants to be the populist party but i'm not buying it

and i think that the that the republicans are on the verge of a self-destruction just like the Democrats are. Totally agree. Before we call it a show, let's bring in producer Robbie just to remind people to follow us, follow us over to Rumble. Robbie. Howdy. Yep. So they kind of touched on it earlier, they being our esteemed hosts, John and Ted. I will be posting some Rumble premium content. That will be going live today. We're also going to be doing some more stuff over the holiday. So if y'all can us come over and follow us on Rumble, we'd appreciate it. And the big reason for that is, is for every dime that YouTube pays them, Rumble pays them 90 cents. So when we say it pays significantly better, it really does. And also, unlike YouTube, Rumble has never censored John

and Ted. So if you want to hear just no nonsense free speech commentary from your two favorite leftists, like those two, come on over. Well, there's fine. Thank you very much, Robbie. And so anyway, I'll see Robbie in about a minute over at the TMI show. John is always a pleasure. Have a great Thanksgiving weekend starting tomorrow. We're normally here Monday through Friday, 9 a.m. Eastern time, and we will have reruns running with the live feed during that time, but you'll be Johnless and Tedless during that time.

Please stay tuned for the TMI show with Ted Rall and Manila Chan coming right up right now. Stay tuned and have a great Thanksgiving and for you and yours. Bye, John. Bye, Ted.