DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Swiss Miss | DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Political cartoonist Ted Rall and CIA whistleblower John Kiriakou deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM EST. Special TWO-HOUR SHOW! Starting 10 AM EST, we're taking your voice calls. Tune in early for a full explanation for how to talk to Ted and John LIVE.Today we discuss: • Switzerland’s army chief says his nation can’t defend itself against a Russian invasion, calls for a massive boost in military spending. Are the Russians really coming? • A recent power outage crippled Waymo’s San Francisco fleet. Emergency vehicles would have been stuck behind them in an earthquake. Are UAVs ready for prime time? • Israel recognizes Somaliland. The EU is angry at Israel. • Trump slashes the US contribution to UN humanitarian aid.

Good morning. You're watching Deep Program with Ted Rall and John Kyriaku. It is Thursday, December 29th, 2025. Only three days left till New Year's Eve. Good morning, John. How are you? Morning. Okay, Ted. How are you? Good, good. We both survived a big winter storm. More in the works, I'm sure. So, all right, so where I am, I've got everything is glazed and iced over like crazy. So we've got a lot to talk about. As we end this year, we've got the Swiss say that the Russians are coming to invade, and they need a massive boost in military spending. There's also been a – there's a lot of rethinking, not surprisingly, in the wake of the power outage that crippled the Waymo cars, the self-driving taxis in San Francisco about a week ago. If that had been an earthquake and if there had been a real emergency,

as the old ad used to say for the emergency broadcast, system, all the emergency service vehicles would have been stuck behind stupid self-driving Waymo cars. So now there's a question of whether, you know, unmanned, not aerial vehicles, I put in EVVs, unmanned automotive vehicles, are able to, are they ready for prime time? We're going to talk about what the hell is Israel up to in Somalia and Somaliland, and Trump is slashing America's contribution to the UN for humanitarian debt? aid so where shall we get started oh and i should say you know this is a two-hour show

little little housekeeping so we are doing a two-hour show today we'll be here from 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Eastern time so if you have calls uh audio calls we'll be doing those through the discord server in the second hour of the show from 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock in the morning live sorry john go ahead no no problem I was going to say that uh We should probably start by saying that Benjamin Netanyahu is in the United States today. He is at Mara Lago, presumably asking the president to bomb Iran again. At least that's what the conventional wisdom is here in the media. So maybe we should begin with that.

The Iranian media is apoplectic about all this. And you know what? I think I should probably turn on a light because it's getting. cloudy and dark here. But anyway, the Iranian meat is apoplectic. The Iranian president yesterday spoke on TV for much of the day saying that Iran has to be prepared for another Israeli attack. This is what the Israelis do. Iranians have to protect themselves. They're genuinely worried about it. And I think they probably should be because this is what Netanyahu asks for every single time he comes to the United States. He asks for the U.S. to bomb Iran on Israel's

behalf. Yeah, it happened recently, so. But also in the mainstream media, the conventional wisdom seems to be, John, that there's a little, there's less appetite to go along with B.B.'s insane projects of expanding violence through the Middle East than in the Trump administration than there ever has been before. Oh, you're only saying that, Ted, because you're anti-Semitic, right? Isn't that, isn't that the mantra?

Yeah, no, that's that. I love how that doesn't work anymore, finally. I didn't know if I lived in, but it doesn't work anymore. I'm glad you said that because I was going to say the same thing. It doesn't work anymore. They overplayed it. They overplayed it. And it can't be that everybody is anti-Semitic.

You know, three quarters of Israel is anti-Semitic, if that's the case. If those are the criteria. Yeah, a lot of millions of American Jews are anti-Semites then. Exactly. Exactly. So I think he's, I think Netanyahu's going to get a very warm welcome today at Marlago, and he'll be told, no, we're not going to bomb Iran again. Agreed.

Listen, I talked to somebody who's personally close to Donald Trump yesterday, and he told me that Trump really, truly, honestly, wants the Nobel Peace Prize. And he realizes that supporting Israel blindly is not going to get it for. him, that focusing instead on peace between Russia and Ukraine might get it for him. And so that's what he's more concerned about today. Oh, I mean, I'd say that my biggest brief against the president isn't that he's that he's often coarse, is that he's often unfocused. And so it would be, I like this current focus.

I hope it lasts. I hope so, too. Forgive me. I'm going to turn a light on. I'm going to move this. slightly and turn a light on. No, be my guest for sure. So, all right, so let's see.

So we have a comment here from My Cat Type to this, which I doubt is true. No opposable thumbs. Turn on the lights on the tree, with the advice from My Cat Type to this. I'm sorry that it doesn't have any lights. And that's about as festive as I get. It doesn't get any more festive than that.

I'm sorry to say. You know, I mentioned the other day, and I was surprised at the number of people who reached out to me privately after I said it. Christmas is very, very depressing for me. It has been since I was a kid. I don't know why. I do know why. And it's just, this is, this belongs to one of my housemates. It's not my tree.

You look around my living room and there's like zero indication that it's Christmas other than this tree. But it's just. I mean, I worried about you, too, when you said that. And, I mean, it's sort of like, yeah. I mean, look, I'm the same way. You know. For me, I can know why. It's because I grew up just, I was a single, I was an only child of growing up with a single mom.

We were poor. It was only the two of us. We lived in a crappy house with tile floors. We had, there was no, you know, we couldn't afford a nice meal. We were rarely invited anywhere. And then, you know, basically it's like having your nose pressed up to the glass of festivity where you look across the street and there's 10 cars parked in someone else's driveway. And, you know, grandfather came from Minnesota and everyone's having a great time. And you're just not part of it, you know?

I mean, that's how it was, you know, at the roll house. You know, and my grandfather died just before Christmas. My dad died just before Christmas. it's just it's just not for me yeah well it goes by and then that's it yeah how do you feel about new year's eve that i'm excited about new yorky even though i'm not new yorker it's always a new yorker it's always a night to stay home because it's uh you know it's amateur night all the everyone's out it's like st patrick's day where everyone's puking green uh it's all colors of the rainbow of puke in uh you know in a couple of nights

But, you know, I'm glad that people enjoy it. But, I mean, it does have that sense of excitement. And we probably will be here Wednesday so we can do like a preview of the new year in politics and everything else. If we want, we don't have to. All right. So let's see. We have a question from Nicholas Franco's. John, is it true?

Okay, I know the answer to this question. But is it true that the CIA and also the FBI recruit from the Mormon community? And if you have the second job, you just learn how to do it. Yeah, yeah, very much so, very much so. Lots and lots of Mormons walk in the halls at both the CIA and the FBI because, well, for a couple of reasons. Number one, for the CIA, the Mormons speak all kinds of crazy languages because they've gone on these missions earlier, you know, in their young adulthood.

And so the CIA doesn't have to train them to speak Uzbek, or Edik or Mandarin. or whatever, they already speak these languages. Number one. Number two, they lead really clean lives by and large. They don't smoke. They don't drink. They don't even consume caffeine.

They don't swear. They don't steal. They don't cheat. So they just blow right through the polygraph because they've never done anything. The CIA and the FBI love people like that. Are they considered incorrectable because of that? For the most part, yeah. Yeah.

And I'll tell you what, you know, all my years that the CIA and afterwards, I never heard of a Mormon getting in trouble for anything. Never. Yeah, I'm trying to think I've had quite a few Mormon friends, and I can't think in civilian life of them ever fucking up in any major way. Maybe a speeding ticket, maybe, accidentally, like going downhill or something. So, yeah, well, I think I told you this story, John. When the CIA had a recruiting table at the Columbia Jobs Fair in 1984,

I went to talk to them. And anyway, so they grilled me about my politics. And I said, oh, you know, I've been to. They were like, are you part of any leftist organizations? And I said, yeah, all of them. You know, I mean, the socialists, the communists, you know, you name it, the left libertarians. I've seen them all. And anyway, they said, well, anyway, we mostly hire Mormons.

They told me that. And when I was in Central Asia, and, you know, you'd inevitably end up at the British. pub with CNN piped in in like Tashkent or, you know, Bishkek or wherever, you know, you'd always be able to spot like the very Mormon-y-looking, probably CIA guy in the corner nursing a beer, right? Always. They're not really deep cover, those guys. I don't know if they stick out to the foreigners. They stick out to Americans. I think I told you, Wals. I think I told you, I was at a, I was at a cocktail party once overseas. And I met a guy, I won't say what his job was, but I met a guy who was very interesting to me operationally. So we're

standing there, chatting, chatting, chatting. And so I invited him to lunch later in the week and he accepted. I go back to the embassy. I write my cable to headquarters asking for a name trace. I met this guy. He's very interesting. This is his job. This is his, you know, the year he was born, the height, weight, blah, blah, blah. This is why I'm interested. And then I send it to headquarters. And then as soon as I hit send, the station chief walks into my, into my office. And he says, did you meet so-and-so at a cocktail party last night? I said, yeah, and I'm interested. And he said, stay away from my deep cover people.

And I said, oh, my God, he's one of us. And he says, yes. And he was on to you like white on rice. So you never know sometimes who's really an intelligence officer and who's not. I mean, it's obvious that the embassy guys passing out business cards. to everybody. Sure, we're CIA. But these deep cover people, they're embedded in the economy of pretty much any country in the world, and you would just never know it. Do you don't think those Mormon guys stick out like sore thumbs in a place like, you know, Turkmenistan? Oh, I would think

so, yes. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, as it is, I was questioned in Afghanistan more times than I could count whether I was Chi Ea. But here we go. Still haven't got to do an ad. Still haven't tried 1775 coffee. Now it's your shop. The 1775 starter kit just dropped only a thousand units. You're getting the bold, dark roast that hits hard, the smooth, medium roast, and the vitality mushroom coffee for clean energy and laser focus, no crash, all single origin, small batch, toxin free and mold-free. Plus, you're also getting a gold spoon clip because freedom is not scooped with plastic, a farther strong enough to stir up your coffee and your mother-in-law's opinions, and it's black 1775 Tumblr.

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And we're always incredibly grateful for that. Okay, a few more questions here. Then we'll get into the show. Good morning. I like this question from Jackson Fort. Good morning, John. How often do intelligence officers switch around in the intelligence community, such as CIA to NSA or NSA? say to FBI or DIA, like, well, Snowden did that.

And what do you guys think of Iran declaring war on us? Those are both good questions. Number one, there's no easy answer to the first one. In terms of switching your career, your home base from one to the other to the other, it's a one-way street from everybody else to the CIA. CIA is at the top of the heap. That's where everybody wants to end up. nobody goes from CIA to DIA or whatever no sir nobody nobody that's a

like could they ever like burn their bridges at CIA but be welcomed somewhere else yes that will occasionally happen usually though they'll go from CIA to one of the Pentagon agencies like NSA or DIA not not to state or to FBI but um there is there is a thing where in order to to be promoted into the senior intelligence service, you have to do a rotation in another directorate. So if you're an analyst, you have to go to operations. If you're operations, you have to go to analysis. If you're in the director of administration, you have to go to wherever, science and technology or whatever. And that usually lasts for two years. And then you have to do a rotation in the policy community. So if you're a CIA officer, you've got to

go to state for two years or DOD for two years. And then you go back to CIA so you can be promoted into the Senior Intelligence Service. But in terms of switching careers, that's very unusual unless you're from someplace else coming to CIA. And Iran, you know, I follow these issues as closely as anybody does. the Iranians would never, ever, ever declare war on the United States. They would, you know, carry out a retaliatory strike, certainly. And I, for me personally, I might call that a terrorist attack in many cases. But in terms of declaring war on the United States, that would be a death wish.

I don't think they ever did with it. I think what the questioner is referring to is sort of a story that broke, that story that broke over the weekend about like Iran sort of muse, the Iranian official sort of musing that they kind of consider themselves at war with the United States. I saw that. No, that's different than a declaration of war by the Iranian parliament. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I'm glad the story, this question came up because, you know, one source of antagonism between, you know, Iran and other countries, particularly the U.S., I think, has been a cultural difference in the way that Iranians talk.

And, you know, it's often been remarked historically for hundreds of years that Persians have sort of a poetic kind of, you know, highbrow way of expressing thoughts that kind of doesn't always land with, like, Anglo-Saxons who are kind of like more, I don't know, straightforward is really the white word, but like more blunt. And so, you know, the, I mean, you know, that's a 5,000-year-old culture, and there's a lot of depth going on. And language for them has a lot of layers of meaning that we don't, that are not really readily apparent to, like, people in, say, you know, the U.S. White House of any party administration. I mean, that's what, that's how this landed for me was like, you guys aren't reading what the Iranians are saying correctly. Yes. I think that's right. They're not. You know, it's, it reminds me of that famous story of when Zabigna of Brzynski went to Saudi Arabia after the Camp David Peace Accords were negotiated. And he asked the Saudis if they would endorse, uh, peace between Egypt and Israel. And the king told,

Al-Shallah, God willing, which means no, essentially, in, in Saudi culture. I mean, it can mean no. And, uh, and, and, Brizinski went back to, President Carter and said, famously, we have the Saudis. It's like, no, actually, you specifically lost to the Saudis. But he didn't understand it. Culturally, it was just not. Yeah, it's like when I worked at the Japanese bank, my boss warned me about the following. He said, oh, you know, if someone likes you, they will probably invite you to go out to meet their family or to go out to come to their home for dinner or to,

to go out for drinks, but they don't really want you to go out, they don't want you to go, like you should never follow up, like, oh, so when am I coming over? Or when are drinks? It's like, it's a compliment. It's sort of like job well done or, you know, hey, I appreciate you, good, good on you. But it's like, you're not supposed to, it's supposed to be, it's not a real invitation in Japan. And that did come up over and over. Now, if someone really, he does want you to come over, that invitation will extend itself in a very specific way. It's like 8 o'clock Friday, 204 Main Street, please be there. Bring one bottle of red wine. I mean, they will be very detailed. Then you're probably having dinner. Maybe not, but probably.

Ted, we used to laugh about the Japanese because they were just so uncomfortable all the time at these diplomatic cocktail parties. And I'm sorry I'm getting off track here, but they would walk up to the reception line, and they would bow, shake hands, and hand over a business card, all in the line without saying a word. And then they would just stand right next to the two hands. Always with two hands. And then they would stand right next to the shrimp table and just stand there and eat shrimp all night long and then leave. Never speak to anybody. Yeah, they're not.

They're not the warmest people. No, no, they're not. Okay, so Venkatesh, is Taiwan important enough for the U.S. to engage in a hot war with China in case of an invasion? Well, first of all, I just want to specify, would it technically be an invasion under U.S. law? I mean, can the United States invade Ohio? I'm not sure Exactly I mean

We don't recognize Taiwan as a country So you know We don't So I don't even know what the legal basis would be for defending them But Policy is to recognize Taiwan as a part of

China It is currently You know Separated from China But is not a country Right I mean You're right

Of course Yeah do we go to War with China? If China invades itself? I mean, that doesn't make any sense. I mean, I suppose it would be possible to chin up the support, but I think we would be looking at World War III. The Chinese would view it as existential. That's right. And with the likes of Lindsey Graham, you know, being on all the news shows 24 hours a day, if such a thing were to happen, I have to agree. I think we would be in a state of war. I mean, the question is, is Taiwan important enough? I would argue nothing is important enough to risk World War III.

Absolutely agree. But, I mean, again, like, okay, so here's the thing. From an American policy perspective, if I'm advising President Kariakou, I'm saying, like, listen, Mr. President, it's like, we, if China completely invades and subsumes Taiwan, what's going to change for us? nothing. Taiwan will continue to produce its same GDP as it does now. We'll still buy the microchips we want. Nothing will change. No vital national security interests of the United States will be threatened, in my opinion. I think we just got a little text from Robbie who said that Abraham Lincoln did invade his own country, so there's that. I would disagree and say that Abraham Lincoln rushed to the south to protect the country from traitors.

We can maybe take that up with Robbie now or at any point. That's always a fun time. But like, yeah, like for example, I don't think it's fair to say that the Chinese invaded Tibet in the late 50s. Tibet was not a sovereign state. It was not recognized by any other country. But anyway. All right, so USC triple X A-Rod. Question for me, what's your take on the Bari-Wice situation at CBS?

Is she a shill for the Trump administration or a genius for having a banned episode of 60 minutes that accidentally leaks out? She's not a genius. Barry Weiss is the news director at CBS News. She has so little experience for this position. It's impossible to overstate it. she's in way over her head, as anyone would be who has no experience. I mean, basically, this is the latest episode in a story that journalists have seen over and over again, which is outsiders who don't know what the hell they're doing, who think they can run a newsroom

better than the people who actually know the business, and don't. This will end in tears for all concerned, for CBS and for her. You know, there's too much of a clash between her and the newsroom. I don't think it's fair to call her a show for the Trump administration, or for that matter, it's fair to the, I don't think it's fair to the Trump administration to say that basically she's their lap dog. I think it's, you know, it's more complicated than that. She's a rank opportunist, a real careerist who basically, you know, took a job that she probably ought to have never tried for and should have turned down once it was given to her. you know John you and I have seen this kind of thing over and over it's just it's just a mistake you know right now we're sort of seeing it at a let to a less very extent over at the Washington

Post with Bezos Jeff Bezos has like turned it into a right wing rag as you said John and like the editorial page is because the editorials in particular have become a fucking embarrassment I can't believe that at the post they actually published some of these editorials with a straight face. And one thing that I try to never do is to go into the comments, right? But I can't help myself with the Washington Post editorial page. You go into the comments. And I mean they are 100% critical. 100%.

If I were the Washington Post editor, I would resign in shame. Yeah. I really would. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. So, I mean, I don't look. I mean, honestly, she's a dead woman walking. She's not going to be there. This time next year, no way.

It's impossible. Can't see it. Yeah. I would say, though, that Barry Weiss, she has kind of an interesting background because she was known for a long time as a leftist. And then she wasn't. Yeah, but it was one of those subtle migration

that nobody noticed. Nobody paid attention to. And another thing, too, is that she is one of the most ardent zinists out there in the media, and she makes no bones about it. She's very toxic. I mean, I guess while we're at it,

speaking of people who've migrated from the left to the right, we'd be remiss not to mention Brigitte Bardot, who just died over the weekend at the age of 91. 91. You know, I knew that she had moved

to the to the pretty hard anti-immigrant right. I vaguely recall her being friendly with Jean-Marie Le Pen. I did not realize that she had multiple hate crime convictions for stirring up. Oh my God. Sturing up people against Muslims. Yeah. Wow, man. Yeah.

So it's, I mean, you know, the. I liked Emmanuel that's not something I say often, but I liked what Emmanuel Emmanuel Macroll had to say about her. You know, he said that this is a very French obituary, and he basically praised her

sexuality, her animal rights activism, and said that she had lived a life of freedom, which in French is like the highest compliment. That's what you're... And I would agree with that. I would say she did. And she, you know,

I mean, obviously her... what's what's with the connection between animal rights and the far right i mean you know the first animal rights sweeping animal rights legislation that ever passed in world history was under the Nazis in in germany um and they set the stage for that like what's up with that no i didn't know that um you know it's funny too because her first uh hate crime conviction was because she was criticizing the um the id holiday that muslims celebrate because they slaughter a goat. And she flipped out because goats were being slaughtered.

And that was deemed to be a hate crime for criticizing Muslims for slaughtering goats. I do think they go. I mean, I think that the French hate crime laws are a little, they're too strict, you know. I mean, you know, I understand her, you know, who speaks for the goats, John, who speaks. for the goats.

Well, no longer Brigitte Vardo. That's true. And, man, she was hot. So, all right, let's, should we talk about Switzerland, speaking of people who don't know how to speak up for themselves? So the chief of the army of Switzerland basically is saying the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming, we need to boost our military spending because, you know, we're not prepared for a Russian invasion.

I have so many things to say about this. And he also says that neutrality, this is a take I really wanted to, you know, try on you. He said that the Swiss think that neutrality protects them, but neutral countries have been overrun before. I've had a very hard time thinking of any examples of that. And I mean, Switzerland wasn't even invaded during World War II when it was surrounded by Nazi occupied states. I took the words right out of my mouth.

I found this to be kind of comical. Nobody's going to friggin invade Switzerland. Everybody knows that the Swiss are all armed. There's no reason to invade Switzerland. The Russians are supposed to fly over all these NATO countries and invade Switzerland. And then what? Right.

I mean, come on. It has to come through Poland. and et cetera before they get back. Exactly. A lot of et cetera. By the time, there's nothing left of anyone to invade. No, I thought that was so stupid that the Swiss embarrassed themselves with this silliness. So, yeah, it's like, okay. And also, can you think of a neutral country being? I can't really think of a neutral country being. I mean, Turkmenistan is a famously neutral country in Central Asia. No one's ever invaded it. It's, you know, I just can't think of anything.

Nor could I. Okay, I mean, so it's kind of like, I love it when people just make shit up. That's the effect of the Internet. Okay, here we, some more questions for us, John. Gabriel 1067, political views aside, Trump seems to be moving more constructively to end hostilities in Ukraine when compared to the efforts of our allies on the previous administration. Thoughts?

Totally agree. No question. Totally agree. You know, it may look as though Trump is forcing the Ukrainians, but that's for the Ukrainians' own good. I'll tell you why. Because very simply, the Russians are winning. And so if the Ukrainians want to continue being bombed constantly, and all they did was complain

over the Christmas holiday, oh, my God, the Russians bombed us on Christmas. First of all, it wasn't your Christmas. Good point. Secondly, yeah, the Russians are bombing you because you're at war. So maybe go to the negotiating table and end this thing. I mean, the Ukrainians, I hate to say this, but I'm going to just say it anyway. The Ukrainians are whiners. Like, I don't know if that's part of their national personality, but that's how the messaging

has been throughout the war. I mean, they've definitely inflicted their licks on Russia. They've bombed Russian apartment buildings, you know, and the Russians, for all of their many faults. They don't say, like, they bombed us and how, do you know what I mean? It's sort of like, it sucks. You could focus on like, they invaded us. They shouldn't have invaded us.

We're a sovereign state. They kept it focused on that. I think, you know, it would land better. Absolutely, 100% agree. And, you know, they should feel free to point the finger at the likes of Joe Biden. Boris Johnson, others that egged them on. Yes. In the Macron.

Others that egged them on. Yeah, it was like, don't worry, you can take those Russians, they're pussies. They're no big deal. Paper Tiger, man. Yeah. We've got your back. That's totally what happened. Van Cetach.

I blame those three primarily. Oh. Biden, John, Macron. 100%. John, for you, what can your fans do in power to expedite your, help expedite your pardon, justice shall prevail? Thank you. That's a great question and it should be brought up all the time. Thank you very much.

You know, at this point, because my application is in, the only thing that people can do really is to either write or email the U.S. pardon attorney. And there's an address online. I was going to ask you, yeah. Yeah, you know what? Let me pull it up. Is it easy or can people just Google it and find it? Oh, yeah. U.S. pardon attorney address and then come up?

Yeah, his name is Ed Martin. Obviously, the pardon attorney address, there it is. And it is, yeah, it is 145, N as in Nancy Street, Northeast Suite 5E Washington, D.C. 20530. Is there like a northwest or southeast or whatever?

Yeah, northeast. 145N Street, Northeast, number 5E, Washington, D.C. 20530. Thanks for even asking for that. I appreciate it very much. much. So we're going to take another question. And then, Robbie, if you're ready, we're going to have you come in and just tee up and explain what's going on in the second hour of the show for the call-ins, which start, if you're just joining us, this is a two-hour show. We're going to go. De-program is going to take you all the way to 11 o'clock Eastern time, which means we're 38 minutes in an hour 22 to go. Okay. John, from Jack 2671, you mentioned how you just heard about the EIT program in the cafeteria. I'm just curious what sort of things could you openly talk about in the cafeteria versus in a skiff.

You know what? That's a great question. When I first started at the CIA, there were two cafeterias, and they abutted each other. One was called the classified cafeteria, and the other was the unclassified cafeteria. The classified cafeteria was about five or six times the size of the unclassified. So if you had a guest from outside, which was unusual, or you had somebody from like the Department of Transportation was visiting for some reason, you had to eat in the unclassified cafeteria. Nobody was ever in there. And so, you know, at peak hours, many of us would go in there just because you didn't have to wait in line for very long. The classified cafeteria, you could say anything.

And I'll add that for the most part, the entirety of the CIA's headquarters building is treated as a skiff. You can say almost anything, almost anywhere, even in the hallways. You might want to lower your voice. But the whole thing is treated as a skiff. We left shit out all night long, all over our desks, in stacks on the floor, top secret stuff taped to the wall. Like literally top secret stuff taped to the wall. So the whole of CIA headquarters is considered to be a skiff. That's fascinating.

I would never have guessed that at all. Okay. Can I add one thing? The first time I ever went into the CIA, I was an investigator for the Office of Personnel Management. And I was waiting for my CIA clearances to come through. So this was a temporary job that I had. And I had to go over to CIA to interview the spouse of a guy who was retired. from the CIA and going to the Department of Energy.

And so she agreed to meet me. And we went to the CIA, and she took us to her office. And I remember seeing this map of the Middle East that was like the size of a billboard. And it had little circles where satellites were taking pictures. And there were so many circles over Lebanon that you couldn't even see. Lebanon right and it was marked top secret on the top the bottom the right and the left top secret top secret top secret i wasn't cleared for top secret at the time that came six months later and i said to her do you mind if i ask you what's the fascination with lebanon and she said we're

looking for bill buckley and i was like oh of course you are bill buckley was the cia station chief who was kidnapped in his apartment building and tortured to death by Islamic jihad back in the 1980s. I just did an episode of my podcast, Dead Drop, about Bill Buckley. But yeah, it was fascinating to me. I was like, oh, my God,

this is exactly what I want to do. And then six months later, that's what I was doing. So here's a question that comes up we were going to talk about anyway. It's John Hart, so we might as well get to it. What do we think of the Somali situation? Oh, Somali situation in Minnesota.

We also saw the Somali situation in Somalia with the fraud allegations. And do you think Tim Walz truly didn't know what was happening? I found in the Fox News to talk about this two weeks ago. I think Tim Walz should resign as governor, not just because, yes, he knew and he covered it up. And if he didn't know, he should have known, right? You're damn right. But I know he knew he knew because. when the whistleblowers reported it to him,

he fired the whistleblowers. Right. Which is a violation of the whistleblower protection. Right there, yeah, right there and then. Yeah, right, just for that. He's got to go. That guy's a clawing. I think even if it happens on your watch

and even if you didn't know because you were like on the toilet downstairs while the missiles were flying up on the deck, that's on you. You've got to take the fall. You know, it sucks for you, but that's the deal. You're the governor.

And it's like, I mean, I think we're going to end up finding out a lot more. The scale of it is just breathtaking, though. And I think we should talk about, you know, Israel and Somalia, right? So first of all, a little reminder, John, of why Somalia is important, right? Location, location, location. You got it. So. You got it.

It's on the Horn of Africa, and that is piracy central. And oil tanker central, right? Right through the Gulf of Aden, right? into the red sea. That's right. It's called the Babel Mandeb. It's a passage that's only 16 miles across from Africa to Yemen, from Somalia to Yemen. And that's where Djibouti is located as well, which is where the American drone base is. It's a choke point. So, like, if you control that, you can cut off shipping. And so important shipping to, you know, to and from the Mediterranean to the Indian Ocean.

So anyway, so Somaliland, do you, are you, I apologize, I'm not very familiar with why Somaliland is a break, you know, is a break, has a separatist movement from Somalia. I can tell you. I've been to Somaliland. I drove to Somaliland from Djibouti with the U.S. ambassador to Djibouti, the defense attache, and the director of security in 20, 11. Somaliland is a breakaway republic recognized by almost no one. Actually, by no one, right? Only by now. Almost now because the Israelis are recognizing

it. Only Israel. Yeah. But Somaliland has, you know, what handful of Somali Christians there happen to be are in Somaliland. Somaliland is friendly with the Ethiopians, friendly with the Djibusians, not friendly enough to garner recognition. But they're so far away from Mogadishu. They're so far away from all the trouble that we know to be a daily part of life in Somalia, that they want to just be their own country. They speak English.

They consider themselves to be sort of the, the young step cousin of the British. And they just want to be recognized so they can develop an economy and live happily ever after. Do they have de facto autonomy like the Kurds do? Yes.

Only because Somalia as a country is such a basket case. There isn't an organized government to try to rein them in. And there's not a Somali military to force them to be reined in. They have this kind of phony government that's set up, and they've got a, quote, unquote, minister of foreign affairs and a prime minister of Somaliland that nobody recognizes or pays any attention to. To tell you the truth, I'm not going to say that I liked it.

I'm going to say, I didn't hate it while I was in Somaliland. It's just a bunch of mud huts and, you know, concrete block buildings that they've slapped together. Like much of the world. Yeah. They're trying. It's always funny, too, you know, that phenomenon, it's hard for Americans who haven't been to these places to understand places that have lost central government control. And they're weird.

I don't know if it's still weird. One time I got into a taxi here in Washington, and I strike up this conversation with the taxi driver. And this poor guy was the foreign minister of Somalia. He's driving a cab in Washington. Wow. That's insane. That's totally insane. I remember going into southeastern Kyrgyzstan about eight years ago. And so when I got to the border checkpoint from Tajikistan, there was no one manning it at all.

You just could walk right into Kyrgyzstan. And when I left to go to China, the Chinese said, how do you know, where are you coming from? Where's your passport stamp entering Kyrgyzstan? I said, I came in through the south. There's no one there. They're like, still? There's still no one there? And I said, yeah, there's no, there's still one there.

And they literally had me come in and just brief, like, some of the officers there. Just like, what did you see? What did it look like? Because they're worried. They have, like, this unstable country on their border. And so I told them, and they were like, thanks. Thanks for the info. But it's like there's no cops.

no soldiers, no law, no order. You know, people take care of themselves. There's with guns, right? There's no other way. Why did the Israelis do this? Why did the Israelis recognize? Why are they fucking around in Africa? You know, the Israelis, listen, let's just be honest here.

The Israelis are kind of an outlaw country. And so just like the South Africans in the 70s and the 80s, the Israelis will take support from wherever they can get it. And Somaliland, Somaliland's quote unquote government is willing to support and endorse Israel. Somalia as a government is at war technically with Israel. And so the Israelis are happy to accept Somaliland support and in exchange will give Somaliland support. I mean, I get that. But is this, I mean, I get that. But is this all, are the Israelis also kind of like doing a miniature version of what the U.S. likes to do, which is just disruption for the sake of

disruption? In part, yes. I do believe that. Yes. That was my original read here. Okay, so a question from Arch Stanton. What do we make of the, oh, we should bring in, I'll do this one, then we'll bring in Robbie to talk about how this is all going to work with the Collins. Okay, what do we make of the New York Times article reporting that Epstein got all his money, oh yeah, this was a good story, got all this money from bilking wealthy clients and not from spy agencies. Does this add up to you? And also, thanks for the five bucks. Yeah, that adds up to me. Spy agencies wouldn't spend that kind of money. The kind of money that he had would not spend it on the likes of Jeffrey Epstein or any access agent. Vanity Fair reported early on that Epstein

with his money from Les Wexner, who owned, you know, the limited and all those different clothing, Ohio-based clothing stores. He's a billionaire, and that there may have been a sexual relationship between the two of them that lasted for many years. Sure, bilking clients. If they're saying that, if they're reporting that, it's because they've seen some kind of evidence, but I could absolutely see that as having been the case. Robbie, would you like to come in and explain the,

call-in section of the show. Sure thing. So y'all cannot see me because my video driver is being used by OBS. That's how I was able to kind of make that weird box goal away. Anyway, we are here and what's going to happen at the top of the hour, I have shared the Discord links on

both Rumble and YouTube. Once you go into the Discord server, what you will do is that you're going to join the call-in waiting room. chat you go right there patiently i'm keeping track of who's there i will then drag you in and by the order in which you came in and then you'll be able to ask your question keep it pithy because that's why we just get through as me colors as possible of we want questions not life stories so just keep that in mind and uh looking forward to it oh and uh please also if you're

watching us on the if you're watching this live on live stream please mute your browser tab so you don't get any kind of an echo. And one warning from me, if you're rude, crude, or socially unacceptable, you will, there's a delay, you will not appear on the air, we will dump you, and you will be banned in this lifetime, in all future lifetimes. So even if you're a cat, you're not off the hook. If someone's rude, I will permanently ban you, you will never come back.

Just dead serious. Do not try me. I will bury your ass. I would not try you, Robbie. Okay, so, all right, thank you, Robbie, for that. Okay, so let's talk. We have a bunch of more questions to get to, and I want to get to all of them. But, John, I don't know if you cared about this, but I always, one of my personality traits is that I hate avoidable problems, you know, like problems that everyone could plainly foresee and decided to ignore, and then they happen, and everyone's out, act surprised and confused.

This situation with Waymo in San Francisco, you know, this has been a long time coming. These self-driving taxis drive around the city, and they don't have the intelligence of a human being or the flexibility of a human driver. So, for example, they're programmed not to cross the double yellow line, understandably, right? But if, let's say, a car in an intensely packed urban area is double parked, you know, you do need to go around, you know, wait for it to be clear, and then go around, the double yellow line, past the double yellow line. They don't do that, right? So there's lots of problems like that. Last week, there was a power outage, no fault of Waymo's.

That was the utility, but the PG&E, I guess. But all of the computer systems that feed the Waymos went down, so the cars just stopped where they were, like in the last scene of the day the earth stood still, right? And so you can imagine, like, people could die. You could be like in an ambulance being rushed to the hospital with a heart attack. You ain't making it because some fucking roboc taxi is stopped in front of you for no good reason. Whereas, you know, a, you know, you and I were both driving through a storm the other day. You know, like you have flexibility.

Like, you know, you can drive between two lanes. You can go onto the shoulder if need be. You see someone, you see an ambulance. coming you know how to get out of the way waymos can't do any of that stuff um are these things is i mean do you agree with me that these things are just not ready for prime time they are not ready for prime time last time i was in la which was a few weeks ago um i went to visit my best friend from high school uh he lives in uh venice and i i i had a rental car i had ways on my phone and so ways took me this odd way just as i got to his neighborhood it took me down an alley

that's that's one house from his house and it's it was a narrow alley so i'm going down the alley and there's a waymo in front of me and it's just stopped and it's you know those things are spinning on the four corners of the car so i just made a left down another alley and just went around so i said to my friend when i got to the house i said there's a waymo stuck in the alley It's just sitting there with its thing spinning. He said, oh, my God, that happens every single day. When people get their garbage cans in the alley, it makes the alley too narrow. And the Waymo thinks that there are like people there or buildings there or whatever.

It can't tell the difference between a person and a building and a garbage can. And so it just stops. And it stops until somebody, you know, moves the garbage can or programs the Waymo to just just keep driving forward that you're not going to hit a person. You're going to come within a few inches of a garbage can. He said every single day. It happens. And I guess that must happen with passengers inside.

Yeah. Yeah, there was nobody inside the Waymo when I saw it. But yeah, this happens all the time. I saw a YouTube video the other day where this guy was in a Waymo in the backseat. He's in a parking lot of a building. And it's just going in these really tight circles. And so he's on the phone with Waymo. and she says, yes, I can see you now on the computer.

Are you in a parking lot? Yes. Are you going in circles? Yes. And she says, can you get out of the waymo? And he said, no, it's going too fast. And if I get out, it's going to hit me. So they have to sort of take it over remotely, shut it down, let the guy out,

and then he can call another Waymo or call an Uber or whatever while the thing just spins in circles in a parking lot. I mean, I know that statistically, you know, human drivers make mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've rolled a car. I mean, I just don't, but I mean, I have to say, I mean, this makes me so uncomfortable. I mean, I think assisted, you know, assisted driver assist might make sense. But you need a human being. We still have a bigger brain than those little things do, you know?

I mean, sort of like in New York, we have. We have trains that are now, like, down to one, subway trains that are down to one person. So you have a 10-car train, and only one human being is driving, is guiding the train. That's like the L train that goes between Lower Manhattan and Brooklyn. The air train, which connects JFK Airport, to two of the major subway stations, the Jamaica and Howard Beach stations, those are completely unmanned. And so, like, if there were a fire, or a derailment, there's no one there to get out

and immediately assist passengers, probably open the doors and help out. Mark my words, there's going to be a problem. Crazy. Question. Let's do some rapid fire answering some questions if you're okay with that, John. Venkatesh, how would an AOC presidency affect the CIA

and the greater national security state? What will her stance be on Israel, Pakistan, India, conflict in Venezuela. That's a lot of questions. Oh, that's such a fun question. I don't think it would change one iota because I think AOC is a phony. I think she is when it comes right down to it, I think she's an establishment Democrat, DNC Democrat all the way. That's the only way to get ahead in the Democratic Party. So I don't think anything would change. I think she would be for the most part pro-Israel. I think she would be pro-CIA and I wouldn't expect any major changes. I hate to say that.

I agree with you, John. I'm not even going to add to that. Okay. I know. How sad is it, by the way, that we think that. Isn't that awful? So sad. Ali, a question not buried on Rumble.

Is smoking a negative in the CIA? I would have thought you'd want smokers in third world countries considering the rates of smoking there. I love that question. I'm a lifelong non-smoker. And I would feel. frequently be invited to smoke Shisha in the Middle East, whether it was Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudi, the Emirates, Yemen once. And I always smoked. Always. Because you sort of have to. It's part of the job. But yeah, it doesn't, they don't care one way or the other if you're a smoker. And there are

a lot of smokers at the CIA, a lot. More than you think like a higher percentage than the general population? Probably. When I first got hired at the CIA, you could smoke at your desk, which was just a nightmare, because the whole, the whole building was just a giant cloud of cigarette smoke. And then, in New York, up until Mayor Bloomberg, until the night of- Bloomberg? Yeah. Mayor Bloomberg, I mean, you know, for all of his faults, he, he was the first New Yorker, first New York mayor, who put the kibosh on it. based on in bars and restaurants and in the workplace. And thank God I hated it.

Long-time listener, okay, well, that's just a comment, so I'm not going to read that. Okay, so, and Robbie's answering the animal rights thing. He says it's because we hunt a lot and we're in nature and we want to protect it. Long-time listener, I feel sorry for Bardot to die as a woman without a country. She failed in her mission to save France. France has gone. It doesn't exist anymore. It's not even on the map completely disappeared. Well, that's going to require a little more discussion of that. Steaker Dad, how do people like John and Scott Ritter do their jobs with so much integrity, get punished for it, and remain loyal to the flag? Because my view is that this is my frigging country. I'm right. They're wrong. And one day, a majority of Americans is going to understand that.

All right, John, a question from Young Courthouse. I just spent a few weeks in an Arab country and now back suffering belated culture shock while working on deadline. Any tips from the field to put mind over matter here? And thanks for the five bucks. Can you repeat the first part? Sure. This person just returned from an Arab country and is suffering belated culture shock while working on a deadline. any tips from the field to put mind over matter here what culture should go ahead i guess it depends on

which arab country uh you're you know what i would what i would do and i have done this is find the best lebanese restaurant you can you can go to and treat yourself and then just try to focus, focus, focus. You know, John, it's funny that you should say that. And I, like, my reference to this is like, you know, for Central Asia, it is kind of like weird to fly from like, say, Tashkent to New York City. You know, you're just after having been there for a while. And you can in one flight.

And so I always do prefer that in-between thing. Typically, it's been like stopping in Istanbul for like a few days. And it is that in-between thing. You're in Europe, but it's still Muslim, you still have the call to prayer. And it does help to sort of have it in between. It does. I remember really having, like, a period of decompression when I moved back to the states from Bahrain. It took me a while.

Guys, we're now entering the second hour here of Deep Program with Ted Roll and John Curiacou. We're going to knock off the last two remaining questions from the chat. And then we're going to move into the audio question. question portion. I see some people waiting in the chat room to ask us questions. Thank you for waiting patiently there. We'll be right with you. So one comment from Ray. Glad to see you back on R.T. John, with the whistleblower show. Thank you. Thank you. Wexler and Epstein, Wexler also Victoria's secret founder. Also money to buy planes like a fleet no longer needed in the 80s, you know, like shipping bananas from Latin.

America to Persia for cash, and thanks for the $10. And I think that does it for the written comments. Robbie, please come on again, and basically here's what we're doing now. By the way, this is not becoming permanently a two-hour show in case you guys are like, oh, my God, that's a lot of Ted and John. We are going to, but we are doing it this week. We're taking up the space freed up by the TMI show, which is off the air until the 5th of January.

So we're here this week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday. We will not be here January 1st, New Year's Day, Thursday. But otherwise, we will be here. And so what we're doing is we're doing two-hour shows. We're doing the normal hour from 9 to 10, then from 10 to 11. We're doing the call-ins. Please like to follow and share the show. Robbie West, please come on and explain how you can call in and take, and we will talk to you on the air and what the rules are and how it works.

Sounds good. So, it's pretty straightforward. If you want to have a chance to ask John and Ted a question, click on the pinned link in the comments, either there on YouTube or on Rumble, and you'll click on where it says, call in waiting room. You'll wait there patiently. I'm keeping track of who's there by order in which you joined. Please unmute yourself once I want to introduce you. Make sure that your browser tab is muted, set where there's no feedback. And we will go ahead and get this thing started. Are y'all ready for your first call? Absolutely. All right, Kat, you are live with John and Ted. Please unmute yourself and ask your question. Thank you.

Hi, John. Hi, Ted. Thank you. I am a Minnesotan. And in regards to yesterday's stuff, just outside of St. Paul, the government is looking to buy a 500,000 square foot warehouse. to turn into an ICE detainment center. What's your thoughts on that?

I'm really glad you brought that question up. That story broke on Friday. It sort of circulated over the weekend. It had this feel of the usual Friday afternoon media dump during holiday season. So ice, you know, which is basically preparing to become the largest military, militarized force in the world, literally, has basically, basically has RFPs, requests for proposals out to contractors to build eight, seven, or eight of these giant warehouses. John and I talked a little bit about it on Friday.

Each one would be dedicated to housing between eight and ten thousand, each one, eight and ten thousand migrants, illegal immigrants, whatever we want to call them, human beings, let's call them that, who are being deported from the United States. They would be held for a number of weeks, sort of like. while they're being prepped for transfer, I'm not really sure what logistics have to be arranged with with third countries or the countries of origin or whatever they're doing. But anyway, they want to house like 100,000 people in these things at any given time. So it shows their ambitions.

And I just don't know how you could process that many human beings at a time in any single facility and have it be done with any semblance of humanity or humanness, right? I just don't see – I just think the scale of it makes it like – I'm not even going to get into whether these people should be deported or not. That's a different question. But the how matters, and the how sounds – it really feels like industrialized human production, and that's terrifying because I've seen sci-fi, and I've studied World War II. I don't know. I mean, it's terrifying to me.

And it's like one of those, like, I don't know how the details are going to go awry, but I'm sure it's going to go awry. Do you think they're going to? Yeah, of course. One of the things that I think we should be genuinely worried about is the fact that these facilities, these enormous facilities, are going to be almost immediately outsourced to private prison companies, especially one called Geo. that's even more dangerous than having the Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Homeland Security handling it because Geo does it only to make a profit, a profit for its shareholders.

And you make a profit by denying people human-grade food, you feed them animal-grade food, and you deny them medical care. So this is going to be even worse than it would be if we were just locking people up within the Federal Bureau of Presum. Do you think they're picking Minnesota specifically due to the, quote-unquote, Somali problem? You know what? That's a good thought. I hadn't considered that. Yes, probably.

I would think, I would think as a slap at Governor Walls, too. Yeah, that guy can go. Yeah, he's got to go. That too. That too. I would think also the central location geographically in the United States, like you can get. you know, it's in the middle of the country. You can get people from, you know, nothing is more than a three or four hour flight away from Minnesota. That's true. Well, thanks for your opinions, guys.

Thanks, God. Thank you. That was a terrific question. Happy year. All right. Next up will be Mr. John Stewart. I don't know if it's that John Stewart, but just in case you, sir, are live on the air.

Hello boys It's great to be here That last question was a little bit heavy I have a non-heavy question I was just wondering if either of you have any National Parks that are lesser known That you would recommend That's a great question too

I live about a 15 minute drive From Great Falls National Park Which is which is about, I'm going to say it's, I'm going to call it five miles north of Washington, D.C. It spans the two sides of the Potomac River on the Virginia side and the Maryland side. The rapids and the waterfalls are dramatic. And it's an absolutely wonderful place to go for quite an easy hike. Most people tend to go to the Virginia side.

I actually prefer the Maryland side because there are fewer people there and it's a longer hike. But if you want to spend just a gorgeous afternoon close to Washington, but in what looks like the wilderness, that's the way to go. Great Falls National Park. Great Falls. That's a great answer. That's a better answer than I have. My favorite, you asked for one that's like more, you know, off the beaten path. If you didn't, I would have said Zion is one of my favorites.

But Canyon DeShay in Navajo Nation in eastern Arizona, I think it's one that sometimes people don't think about. And it's really, really, it's amazing. I camped there. It's, you know, there's a tribe of Native Americans that live at the bottom of the canyon. And so you kind of get a sense, a sense of what life was like before the Colombian conquest. And for that reason alone, to me, it's worth it. I would like to jump in on this one, too, if you all don't mind. Please.

The little bighorn battlefield here in Montana, it is. Oh, my God. I've gone twice. That is magnificent. It is. And what's really special about it is it's one of the only two cemeteries. on the planet where the headstones are where the soldiers actually fell so you can actually go and you can see where the people died and in the uh the cemetery there it's full now so that

there's no more internments they have the bodies of all of the settlers and the soldiers that were killed during red clouds war and also during the uh the uh the great sue war up till the up till the up until the Vietnam period. So it's, if you like graveyards, if you like history, the Little Bighorn battlefield, it's off the beaten path. It's on the Crow Reservation

just outside of Hardin, Montana. Highly recommend it. One more. I want to add something to that, too. There's a modern cemetery at Little Bighorn, too, a modern military cemetery, and they're still doing burials in it.

It's less interesting. But there's also a restaurant across the street from the end. entrance. It's a tourist trap. It's a tourist trap in that it's a Native American restaurant. I think it's a Cherokee, I think. And they've got a gigantic gift shop and all that silliness, but the food is fantastic. If you like buffalo burgers and they have Native American bread with honey, local honey on it. It's a fantastic place. I've been there twice, once with my son, once with an old friend of mine, a former boss of mine. It is a, it's a wonderful way to spend the day. And it's not far from

Billings, so you can go spend the day in Billings, which has a lot more to do than you might imagine. First of all, Montana is a gorgeous, stunning, incredible place. But secondly, there's so much to do right there that it's really worth a day trip. It's, it's, really is. I'd like to add one too. R-O-L-L-I-T-E-R-H-Y-O-L-I-T-E, I think it's the spelling. It's a national monument also, and that's a, I think I've mentioned this to you off-air, John, but it's a, it's a silver boom-bust, it's probably one of the biggest ghost towns in the United States. At one time, it had a population of something like 20,000, or maybe it's 10,000, but 10 or 20,000 people, I forget which, had its own train,

its station, it was a big city. It had banks, real buildings, the whole nine yards. You know, it rose up quickly in the 1890s, collapsed just as quickly in the 19, like late, late odds, early teens. And it's amazing. And it's, and speaking of graveyards, it has, because it's Nevada and there's no weather. It still has like some graves in the original graveyard that are two across formed by two sticks tied together like something out of

a spaghetti western in the middle of nowhere. It is so weird and cool. I can't even begin. It's about three hours north of Las Vegas. So cool. Highly recommended. So next up, we'll be I am not a cat.

So I am not a cat. You are live. Go ahead. Please mute your tab, but unmute yourself so we can hear you. You are on with John and I. Hey, guys. Thanks for the show. Appreciate the opportunity to recall.

John, I hope you get your part. Thank you, sir. And I've got a couple of questions about either you can pick, which to answer. I'm curious to how you guys met. And then I'm also curious as to what are the largest political or worldview differences

between both of your views? Ooh, I like that question. Ooh. All right. Well, all we met is very simple, and I'll let John ruminate on the second part of the question. We both were,

we both had shows on Sputnik, and, you know, John had his show with Michelle Whitty, and I had my show. Before that, we met, you were you were a frequent guest on the show that I did with Brian Becker that's true yes and so and so yeah I was a frequent guest and that's how we met and then like I had my own show yeah so that's it and I always knew that I wanted to

work with John and when when Sputnik was shut down by the Biden administration you know we talked to each other and I was just like hey you know let's try to try to figure something out and we started this show originally with Michelle and she dropped out for the record here we did not this was not our choice um and and we are still friends it's like no bad blood or anything like that um so that's how we met john you want to take the second part yeah you know from from right off the bat i i brian becker told me you know you got to meet this guy ted raw he's smart he's accomplished he's insightful he's analytic and uh and so we uh we would have you on the show.

There were very short segments. You might remember, they were 11 minutes. So we would do 2.30 minutes segments and then 5.11 minutes segments, which was a friggin a lot of hard work, you know, writing questions for seven segments. But you would come on. And one of the things that I loved was that frequently the conversation would meander in such a way that it had nothing to do with the reason we brought you on the show. show in the first place.

But you were able to speak authoritatively on so many different issues that I had the same thought. I want to work with that guy. I liked you, first of all, as a person. I was very impressed with how accomplished you were as a journalist and cartoonist. I mean, I consider you as an editorial cartoonist to be a journalist. And I thought, and I genuinely like the guy. I'd like to work with him.

Yeah, that's important. I mean, you know, it's like, because when you're working like on something like this, you spend a lot of time with the person. And if you don't like them, I mean, you hear these relationships like, like apparently Hannity and Colms really disliked each other. Yeah, they really genuinely disliked each other. And I think, I think Colmes really disliked Hannity and because he's Hannity. No one likes him.

He's a really bad person. so I mean I don't even I'm not even talking about the politics has nothing to do with it and so yeah no it is it's important John what would you say are the are some of the space between us politically there's not a whole lot of space between us we may we may use slightly different labels but I honestly can't think of of a substantive issue that we disagree on?

You know what we'd have to do. I don't think we've teased that out. I think what we should do is do a Rumble premium at some point where we just spend trying to look for like the, you know, maybe like, so how do you feel about capitalism or, you know, like go through those things and then we might be able to find, I mean, I don't know if this is, I mean, there's some, I feel like there might be,

I don't think there's a lot of space because I think we tend to analyze things the same way and we understand the power structures and what they're after and what they're trying to do and like why they do or do not care about us, the people, kind of in a very similar way, I think. You know, the libertarian party used to have a questionnaire. I'm looking at their website right now. They used to have a questionnaire where you could answer questions and see, you know, if you're libertarian or if you're not libertarian.

and it would compare people on the issues. I'm not seeing it now. It creates a grid, right? Yeah, it's a grid, exactly, exactly. So it would be kind of fun to see where we each sit on one of those grids. Yeah, I haven't done that for a lot. Let's just let's you and I both do the same one and then we can report back. Awesome.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Here is one called Blossom Up, Political Identity Test. They may charge you, though. I'll find theadvocates.org. Where do I fit? Political affiliation quiz. I'll find one. I'll send it to you. All right. That sounds good. And so just a reminder, if you're just joining us, it's now 10.20 a.m. Eastern time here on Monday. If you'd like to call in and ask us a question, just hit that Discord link in the live chat, either on Rumble or on YouTube, and then you'll find yourself in the call, and then go to the call-in live office, and then producer Robbie West will shepherd you where you need to be, and we'll bring him in a little bit again to remind everyone of the rules for people who are just joining, but all right, Robbie, keep him coming.

So Schmobbs, you are live with John and Ted. We eagerly await your question. All right. Thanks for having me on, guys. Good morning. Amazing show, as always. So I guess my first point, I'll be brief because I know a lot of people are waiting too, but what would be your guys' guys' favorite insight into ancient civilizations, including such sites as Balbeck and Lebanon

with such stones as the Trilophon, 800, 1600 tonne stones, or even the pyramids in Giza. I know, John, that you've done a lot of work in Egypt and you've talked about that. I don't know if you've had time to, you know, sightsee at the Giza Plateau, but there's recent scans. I don't know if, oh, that's amazing.

I guess a quick follow-up would be these recent scans by this Italian team, one of these guys, Filippo Biondi, works with the Italian military, and they're detecting these massive structures underneath possible structures underneath the Giza Plateau. I mean, all of this, I guess, is,

like, what do you guys make of all of that? Ted? I was hoping you'd go first because I was looking up something. So, in, in, I have a few about, a few, a few of these. for sure. So in Kyrgyzstan, there's a field of what they, what they colloquially call bubbles. They're these rounded stones covered with ancient petroglyphs, and they're so evocative

of the, you know, of the ancient people who were there. It's the atmosphere that really brings it home for me. It's like, you know, you're just like you're in this remote field, these ancient people who really are not really, it's not well understood who they were, drew these pictures of what might have been Marco Polo's sheep or Ibbics or something like that with these curved horns. They're just on the ground.

You can just pick them up. There's no curator. There's no museum. There's no fence. There's no entrance fee. It's just there. And there's this sense of incredible discovery there. There's also, on the border between Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, there's a field, sorry, actually, this is sort of more like in northern Afghanistan near bulk.

There's a field where there's a pile of stones, and this is probably not even truly historically accurate, but there's a pile of stones that supposedly the stones that were placed there by Alexander the Great and his bride, Roxanne, personally. and in this field. And, you know, it's like the legend of it, right, that the world's most powerful conqueror had made it as far east as he possibly knew that he didn't know that the world existed beyond that point. He thought he had conquered the entire world and he married this princess who turned out to be,

you know, there was no such thing as an Afghan, but we would call her. But, you know, basically it was modern-day Afghanistan. understand. And the most beautiful girl in the world, and who turned out to be ferocious because all he, basically all of his other wives ended up sort of dying of being poisoned after he married her. You know, it's just the mythology of it. You know, there you are in this field, and the legend is that all the conquering armies never toppled to the stones because they all respected what had happened there. I don't know. It's probably not even true, right? But, you know,

It's kind of like, you know, it's like medieval relics, which were a lot of those stories could not have been true, right? Like the shroud of Turin, it's probably not true. But those are the two that lead to mine for me. What about you, John? Yeah, I agree with just about all of it. You know, I don't believe in, I don't believe this was space aliens that came down and directed the construction of the pyramids.

I just can't wrap my mind. around that. I do believe that there, that we have these engineering wonders, these engineering feats that are, that are inexplicable because we've lost the technology of the ancients. You know, just as a kind of a modern day parallel, I'm a, I'm a huge fan of the arts and crafts bungalow construction style for houses. My grandparents had an arts and crafts bungalow. My ex-wife and I built one from scratch. We designed it ourselves. And there's a one sort of sub-style where there's a flat roof and a window, right, on the second floor. That architectural engineering has been lost just in the last hundred years.

110 years. It's been lost. We can't design that anymore without water leaking. And they can't figure out, and this is crazy. There have been articles written about it. They can't figure out why they could do it in 1910 or 1920, and they can't do it today without water leaking. It's the crazy thing. It's like the famous mosaics in the New York City subway, which indicate, like, the mosaics that has the name of the station and maybe a symbol, like, for example, Astor Place has the beaver

for the Astor family. And those things were designed, like, starting it, you know, 100 years ago, like you said, 120 years ago, 110 years ago. And there is no craft person. The MTA can't find anyone who can replicate the quality

of those mosaics. They can do sort of a rough version. Basically, it's like we can do low-res versions. but in terms of individually cracking the tiles so that they all fit in this beautiful, and there's still some left, you can find them, but like when they have to go through the wall to fix something, a pipe that's burst or something, they break through them, and then they're gone forever, and they will never come back. It's not even, money's no object.

They just can't fix them. We don't know how to do that anymore. Another thing, too, is just in the past, like, year or a year and a half, scientists, figured out why things built by the ancient Romans are still standing. There are these white little specks in Roman concrete. The Romans invented concrete, right? There are these little specks that scientists always thought were clamshells. They were bits of clamshells. And they determined that they're not clamshells. They're little chips of like gypsum or something like that. And it's that that holds or that held the ancient Roman concrete together.

And for whatever reason, over the centuries, we stopped using it. And so our concrete lasts 10 or 20 years. The Romans concrete lasts 2,000 years and is still going strong. And only now we've rediscovered it. So I think there's a lot in ancient Egypt. First of all, I believe that there probably are these massive, you know, things underneath the plane. But they were probably built there, put there, by the ancient Egyptians,

and we've lost the technology to understand how they did it. I believe that. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Well, it's like, have you been to the English town of Bath, right? Which was the Roman Bath. Absolutely. Which are still in use. They silted up during the Middle Ages because basically people forgot how to,

how to clean the silt out and then so they were out of service for i guess a thousand years or 800 years and then like then someone they they oh we should clean the shit up and now they're they're working again yeah it's a pretty cool place uh great question um all right so robbie keep them coming all right so next up i can't see your name but you start with the letter k you are live uh just introduce yourself because for whatever reason, I cannot see your handle. Okay, hello, guys. I'm Collegi 51.

Can you guys hear me? Yes, perfectly. Wonderful. So for John, two questions. One, you've told that you're a practicing Orthodox Catholic. Can you talk about that, like your journey with that? And the second thing, you understand Middle East very well. So what would you say is the most important thing that Westerners should understand about Islam?

Yes. Wow. Yeah, two good questions. Yes, I'm practicing Orthodox. To the best of my understanding, we've been Orthodox since, you know, since Paul went to Greece and brought Christianity to the Greeks. Even my 23 and me, and I did a second one with genealogy.com just shows us in this, for the last 2,000 years, in this tight little oval that includes southern Greece, Crete, Cyprus, and Western Anatolia. So we've been there for 2,000 years. And, yeah, I mean, it's important to me. I will say after two divorces, I've struggled with it a little bit, but I take personal strength in reading about the lives of the saints

and the desert fathers, mostly from Sinai and the Egyptian desert. I read a lot about them. And, yeah, it's important to me. Growing up Greek Orthodox, the church was the center of our culture, right? Our friends were, for the most part, Greek and churchgoers, all the big parties and the festivals,

and the get-togethers were at church. I had to go to Greek school, Tuesday and Thursdays from 545 to 7, which, you know, for a little kid was an eternity. And it was all very, it was all very important. I think that what most Americans don't understand about Islam, and I know I'm going to take shit for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway,

is that Islam is a religion, of peace. It is a religion of peace that has been bastardized and co-opted by radicals who don't understand Islam. Osama bin Laden, as one example, had zero religious credentials. None. He was just a poor little rich kid who took it upon himself to take up arms, not just against the United States and the West, but against other Muslims. So I think that's the most misunderstood thing about Islam is that if you if you read the Quran and you and you understand the teachings it's a religion of peace were you a lot of people have I recently was listening to Kat Stevens a lot of

people have converted to Islam were you ever I mean having you know when you study something you get to know it you find it appealing were you ever tempted to not maybe convert like were you ever did you ever think like oh there They're right about this and that. No, I was never tempted to convert. I'm strong in my faith. But I studied Arabic with two guys who did convert, both CIA officers. One ended up converting back to his father was a Baptist minister.

And the agency sent him to Jordan to study Arabic. And he came back a Muslim that lasted throughout his career. And then after he left the CIA, he, he, converted back and became a Baptist minister like his father. How did they feel about it? How did his bosses feel? Did they care? No, nobody cares. Listen, the head of operations at the counterterrorism center when I was there, not just when I was there, but afterwards, the man who was responsible, was responsible, rather, for finding and killing Osama bin Laden is a Muslim. Nobody cares if you're a Muslim.

at the CIA. I served under two Muslim bosses at the CIA. And they were perfectly happy. You could see someone wondering, oh, has he gone native? Could he become recruitable? There was one guy. He was Catholic, Catholic, Catholic. He was from Akron, Ohio. I won't say his name. He replaced me in Kuwait. And we were friends. We worked in the same branch together. Our wives didn't like each other, which is more of a commentary on my first wife. on his but our wives didn't like each other and um he was chosen to replace me in Kuwait he went into the language training um went to Kuwait and said hey have you ever given any thought to converting to Islam and I said no I studied it my I have a minor in in uh Islamic

theology and um but I said no it was more of an interest of an academic interest for me that it was a religious pursuit. And so he said, I'm thinking of converting to Islam. And I said, oh, what's your wife say about that? And he said, I think it's going to lead to a divorce. Oh, should. And I said, buddy, you might want to give that some real thought before you jump in. Well, after he finished in Kuwait, he came back to headquarters for a year and then applied

for and was given a position in Riyadh. And I knew as soon as he told me he was going to Riyadh, this was going. going to be the end of it for him. So he goes to Riyadh, and he starts sending these very, very detailed but unclassified cables about his conversion to Islam and his trip to Mecca to make the Hodge. And I knew that he was making them unclassified. He would always start by saying, this is unclassified because there's no operational information involved. I'm just sending it. I'm just sending it for headquarters interest. I knew what he was doing.

He was going to write a book. And he wanted the agency to pay for all of this. So he would write the cables, but leave them unclassified so that he could print them and take them home and then publish them as a book. And that's exactly what he did. He converted to Islam. His wife left him, took their two kids, left Riyadh and went back to Washington, went back to Akron for all I know.

He came back at the end of two years, published. his book on his, you know, Odyssey to Islam, and then he resigned and joined the State Department's Foreign Service. So it happens. That's a good story. Yeah, thanks for the follow-up question there. That was very good. And John, also, maybe you should have done something like that. It would help your financial situation today. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thanks, Mekatesh. Hey, so just a reminder, we are in the second hour of Deep Program with Chad Roll and John Kiriaku.

We are basically filling in the space vacated by the TMI show this week. And so if you'd like to join us and talk to John and or myself, all you have to do is click the link to Discord, which

you will find at the top of the live chat either on Rumble or on YouTube. And then, once you get in there, you click call in live office and we take care of the rest. All right, Robbie, who's next? Next up is Ali. Ali, you are live with John and Ted. Thank you very much for the call. Thank you. Hi, guys. So my question was, thank you. My question was, what do CIA analysts do exactly? Is it similar to political analysis?

And do you have any recommendations on reading material on how they do what they do? Great, great question. the quick answer is yes it's very similar to what you see outside the CIA whether it's in government or in private industry in terms of political analysis the CIA also does economic analysis and military analysis those are the big three there are other kinds of analysts but those are the big three it's all source analysis so you're reading state department cables you're reading CIA operational reporting cables, you're reading NSA intercepts, you're reading something called a DODIR, a Department of Defense Intelligence report from U.S. defense attachés overseas,

and you're reading lots and lots and lots of media press from whatever country or whatever region you are covering. And so you're supposed to be consuming all of this information so that you are the go-to expert on whatever issue it is you happen to be to be covering um there are several really great books out there um you know i don't know if i have time to to look at them on amazon but i can give you the authors look for books written by fulton armstrong by bruce peas uh p a s e a s e by Bruce Riddell, R-I-E-D-E-L, and by Paul,

Paul with an M, Paul. It's going to come to me, but anyway, he's at Georgetown University now. He spent 30 years as a CIA analyst. A lot of these guys, once they retire from the CIA, they write books, but the book is

specifically about CIA analytic tradecraft. So it's about how to become, a CIA analyst. Paul, what the heck is his name? It's going to come to me eventually. Anyway, there are

easily 6, 7, 8 really good books out there that can laser point you in the right direction. Thank you so much. Thank you. And Ted, I'm glad you saw the text I sent you. I tested as a

libertarian leftist. I would not be surprised if I tested very similar to that because I have always been very partial to libertarianism, but from a left-wing point of view. So, you know, yeah. I think that the government, I think that there should be health care and social security. And otherwise, I want the government to get the hell out of my life. Yeah, I think that government should provide the basics. Agreed. I'll need to do it and see where I pop up on that list.

probably a little bit to the right of y'all please please please do lobby please please do i said you guys both the link mustang you are live on d program with john and ted right on hey good morning john and ted thank you very much for all your work um thank you the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of serbs by u.s back Croatian leaders was premeditated according to newly uncovered files revealing the operations planning. After the bloodshed subsided, Richard Holbrook, a top U.S. diplomat assured him, we said publicly that we were concerned,

but privately you knew what we wanted. Could you comment on the genocide that occurred? Yeah, you know what? I was stationed in Bahrain at the time, and I was working for an ambassador named David Ransom, I had the deepest respect for this guy. He was one of the finest ambassadors I ever had the honor of serving under. And he suspected that something like this was going on to the point where there was a fundraiser

in Bahrain that the Bahraini government was sponsoring, where people could go and donate money that would be sent to the, you know, maybe I'm getting a little bit too into, anyway, there was a fundraiser. The fundraiser was in complete opposition to what U.S. policy was. And so he did it anyway. He went and donated money, $100 or a couple of hundred dollars. And the station chief pulled him aside and said, Ambassador, you really, you really, that the money's probably going to be used to buy weapons.

And he said, I'll never forget it. He said, these people have to have some way to defend themselves. And I remember thinking Richard Holbrook should be in prison. And in fact, the only reason why Richard Holbrook wasn't Secretary of State was because he died before he could be named Secretary of State. So, you know, this is another one of those examples of the, of the utter hypocrisy of American foreign policy that often results in the deaths of innocence that there's not going to be any fallout from nobody's going to pay for this

nobody's going to go to prison for crimes against humanity or war crimes but that's exactly what happened here I'm glad that the information is finally getting out there I really am although certainly not too late for Richard Holbrook to have been you know, sanctified, you know, by the press. He's permanently considered to be, like, a god. Yeah. Yeah, he ranks with George F. Kennan as, you know, one of the greatest diplomats in American history who never made it to Secretary of State.

And I'm just not buying it. I never was. To me, he is part and parcel with Tim Russard of Meet the Press when he died. And everyone was like, he was such a colossus. And I'm like, again, it makes me question humanity. I feel like Winston Smith. I'm like, did you live in the same world that I lived in? What?

His desk. His desk was on display at the museum, the museum of news. His desk. Wow. Call covered in books and papers and all kinds of shit all over it. Yeah, it's a messy desk. Yeah. We all have them.

Oh, my God. That's amazing. Thanks for that call. Appreciate it. All right, Robbie. Let's keep going. And by the way, we have to squeeze in because I did promise we would talk about Trump's contribution, slashing the contribution to the UN humanitarian spending.

So quote unquote, humanitarian spending. Scare quote is intentional. Anyway, who's next, Robbie? Next up is Venkatesh. You are alive, sir. Please unmute yourself. And John and Ted await your questions. Hello, Venkates.

I'm from India, and when I look at Mr. John Kiryaku, I'm not flattering anyone, but he literally gives me hope. I kind of have a pessimistic view on humanity, and you, sir, did the right thing. You are the in a killer of bravery and so on. Thank you so much. I appreciate that very much. Yeah, I hope you get the part, and hopefully I'm not an American citizen. I think in my hands to email any U.S. attorney or something like that.

But I do have a question for you. If I were to start with books written by you, what should the first book be? And a very, very relevant question. I'm kind of pushed to ask. If you were the math security advisor of India, how will you advise the prime minister on the growing influence of China, especially China demanding an end?

entire northeast state of India, that is Arnachal Pradesh, calling it the southern Tibet, which is absolutely preposterous. So if you can weigh on that. I know you got shit for the last time you engaged with India, Pakistan. I want to apologize personally. Thank you. Thank you for your work. Thank you.

You know, my first book, The Reluctance by, is probably the best place to begin, but it's it's unavailable anymore there were 50,000 hard copy hard cover copies in the in the initial printing and then they printed a hundred thousand paperbacks and they've all been sold I had I don't know I had a few hundred copies and when I set up my sets my substack everybody who joined as a as a premium substack follower I sent one of the books to and so I don't have anymore. And I've been told that they're like $500 on eBay, between $100 and $500 on eBay. So I apologize for that. Another book that I have is doing time like a spy, how the CIA taught me to survive and thrive in prison. It's out there and it's available. And I've got an electronic copy

and it's easy to get. The others are very specific books because they were commissioned. One is called The Convenient Terrorist. It's about Abu Zabeda. I had these, what, one, two, three, four books, four books that were commissioned about the CIA. I have this book about cemeteries coming out, but I'm in the process of doing a book that's a book of stories that's going to be like the most detailed, deeply involved book that I've ever written. So that's, I'm still piecing it together. That's going to take a little bit of time. Thank you for your comment on my most recent interview with the Indian media. Doggone them, they put me in such a bad position.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there. If I were the National Security Advisor of India, I would urge the Indian Prime Minister to engage the Pakistanis in ongoing and deep diplomatic talks to try to defuse the constant and ongoing border situation with Pakistan so that the Indian government can be freed up to address China. I've long said that the Chinese are not by their nature expansionist except where it comes to India. And I have no idea what the Chinese think they're going to get

out of this low-level threatening of Indian sovereignty that we've seen. There have only been a handful of skirmishes over the years since the communists came to power in China. There was a skirmish in the 70s with the Vietnamese. It may have even been the North Vietnamese at the time. I can't remember now. No, maybe not.

It was just one Vietnam by then. But the other skirmishes that the Chinese have fought have been against the Indians. And people have been killed. So I think that China, China is a real, it's a genuine foreign policy threat to India, and the Indians should try to free themselves up to focus on that threat. John, a little bit of breaking news just for people who are just joining us.

It's about 11 more minutes left in the show. Zelensky is saying that he's asked Trump for 50 years of security guarantees against Russia. Zelensky signals that Trump is open to 15, and we're not clear on what those 15 years' worth of guarantees look like. Are they all from the U.S.? Are they from Europe, from Europe, or is it a hybrid, or exactly what that all means? But that's basically where things currently stand. I have a question for you all.

I'm going to show my ignorance. So for a country to get security guarantees, wouldn't that require a treaty? Yeah. And this is what we called, well, yeah, it likely would. This is what we were talking about last week and the week before, about major non-NATO status. That's exactly what this is. So it would be the same kind of relationship that the United States has with Australia, Japan, South Korea, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar. The same exact agreement.

Those countries, none of those countries are in NATO, but they get the same. NATO-like relationship. Yeah, but I don't, I can't imagine the United, I can't imagine the Trump administration going to Congress and asking for treaty ratification, not that they would get it, right? Yeah, this is, this is going to be, yeah, yeah, this is going to be difficult. Can you imagine the Senate voting?

what, 75, 25, in favor of a 50-year commitment to the Ukrainians? Or even 15. No. I mean, 50. I'd be opposed to five months, just saying. Yeah.

50 years is too long. I mean, honestly, who wants to hobble future presidents? Also, I just feel like that's irresponsible, even if you believe in it, you know, yourself, which I don't think Trump does. I think Trump just wants to end this with, you know, as cheap as cheaply as possible. And I don't know that I blame him.

All right. Who else do we have? But do you want to do the human rights story or one more caller? Well, we have time for some. Let's get through some calls and we'll hit the human rights at the end. Sounds good. I mean, I don't have a lot to say about it. So, oh, you are on.

I cannot see your whole screen name. So you are on. Please unmute and ask your question. Okay. Thank you guys. I love your show. John, I hope you get your pardon. I guess my question is more for Ted. You often say that you're a communist or joke. I kind of come from a conservative background to the point where my parents don't realize that Dick Cheney was a neocon. But why are you more in favor of communism instead of like a mixed economy? Well, I don't think a mixed economy is possible for any length of

time, right? I mean, I think if you could maintain that balance, it would probably be ideal if we could figure out a way to get to a Scandinavian model. But as we've seen in recent decades, there's a general, you know, Marxist tendency, where he, his analysis, where he said that capitalism tends towards aggregation and monopoly. We're living that now, right? I mean, we keep, we have regulations that are ignored, you know, the gap between rich and poor is increasing. The income disparity gap keeps increasing. Nobody has any ideas how to fix it. I mean, look at the minimum wage, frozen at $7.25 on the federal level, since 2009. And it's not even like in neither party even wants to talk about raising it, right? And it's disgusting.

So, I mean, I feel like with communism or socialism, you know, you start with a system that obviously is going to get corrupted and fucked up by human beings. But it's, you know, it's a system that obviously is going to get corrupted and fucked up by human beings. But it has the, you know, it starts with the basic idea that we're all equal and we're all entitled to the good things in life and that nobody's special. Capitalism starts out with the idea that some people are special and that whoever, you know, you get yours and no one's entitled to anything and then gets corrupt from there. So, I mean, that's, you know, this is the short version. I'm trying not to, you know, use up the whole rest of the show talking about it. But I think for me, it boils down to what kind of society

do we want to live in. A mixed economy would be, I think, great if you could maintain that balance. I think it's inherently unstable because what happens is that the corruption of the capitalist side and the free markets ends up gobbling up all the social guarantees. I mean, look at how the great society and the New Deal have been eaten away in the last hundred years. yeah that makes a lot of sense thank you i guess as a small side question what are your guys's favorite uh beers or kinds of beer i'm an iPA man all the way and i'm a stout guy i get stout anywhere i can find it anywhere in the world i like stout on a cold day for some reason i don't know why awesome thank you guys so much have a great day thank you i like that beer

All right, Robbie, keep them coming. Let's get through them all, and then we'll hit the UN thing. All right. Next up, same thing. Your screen name starts with an F. Hello, hello. I cannot see you, though. Okay, well, while that's being figured out, do you want to talk about this?

I mean, does this really matter much? I mean, I don't, I'm not very excited, John, about these UN programs. I was never a big, you know, I don't think USAID did a hell of a lot to advance the U.S. or help the poor. I mean, I think a lot of these U.N. programs, humanitarian programs are just, like, they get corrupted, all the aid gets stolen. I'm not impressed. And so I don't really care that Trump's slashing it, even though he may not be slashing it for good reasons, or he might be. I don't know. Yeah, I agree with you.

Um, USAID, uh, USAID was famously a CIA front, uh, over the, over the many, many years. A lot of information's already been declassified. You can Google it and even Ted Kennedy complained about it back in the 70s. In the early 70s, like 1971, there's a terrific memo out there about Kennedy complaining that all USAID does is carry out CIA covert operations. There was a piece in the, I think it was in the New York Times over the weekend about the toilet. Do you see this? About the toilet that they spent $1.2 million making this toilet that allowed you to just, you know, take a crap anywhere you happen to be in Africa.

And after $1.2 million, nobody uses this toilet. That's just kind of typical of USAID. And if it's not carrying out a CIA covert action operation, it's wasting $1.2 million on a friggin' toilet that nobody's going to. going to use. So, yeah, you know, what? Why is it that other countries succeed, smaller countries, countries that don't have as much money, the Italians, the Dutch, the Danes, the Swedes, why are they able to go to poor countries and build water treatment plants and electrical grids and hospitals? And, you know, why are the Chinese allowed to pave thousands of miles of highways all over the world? And we're not. Yeah. And they, and there, and then

they leave their sign up, you know, at the front, at the beginning of the highway that says, a gift from your benevolent brothers in the, in the Republic of Italy, so much better. They know, they do a better job for, for our, for their propaganda. All right, F, F, FDD, D, ZZ, I'm sorry, you are on the air patiently waiting. Please go ahead with your question. Yep, love the show, guys, and John, hope you get your pired. And two part, yep, two part question. wanted to ask the question about double agents.

So if you're a case officer and then you discover your asset as a double agent, what do you do? Do you retaliate against them? What do you do? And then the second part of the question is, let's say, you know, you're American, your counterintelligence, you discover a spy. Do you try to convert them to a double agent? So kind of general information around that subject. Both very, very good questions. If you have recruited an agent and you realize that he's double, number one, you absolutely

positively never let him know that you know that he's a double because what you want to do is try to then collect information on him and on the country that he's working for without him knowing about it. I think I have a whole chapter in my first book about this double agent that I handled in the Middle East. It ended badly for him. He's the last I heard, he's still in prison and it's been 25 years now. But yeah, it's a unique opportunity to collect intelligence on the bad guys. Because at the very least, you'll be able to figure out what they want to know about you so that you can further, you know, throw some, some goop in the, in the works. If you, if you realize or stumble upon or figure out that somebody is a spy, you know, it depends on the

situation. If it were here in the United States, you immediately have to turn that over to the FBI, immediately and then they would either work to prosecute the person or work to convert the person into a double agent on behalf of the United States in some cases you would just expel them you know if you find if you find that somebody here is working for you know the North Koreans and is not recruitable you just expel the guy or working for the Russians there are There are a lot of Russian illegals, what's called illegals here. They're sleeper agents.

And every five, six, seven years will break up a sleeper cell. There was one here in my neighborhood a year or two ago, and you just grab everybody and expel them, send them back to Russia. Or you use them to trade for some of your own people. But that's a long way of saying that every situation. is unique it has to be handled in a different way thank you very much for that call that's the last one we have time for in this show but don't worry we're doing this again tomorrow we have a we have one more ad to do and then

we'll let you guys go all right some housekeeping we are here again tomorrow Tuesday December 30th at 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Eastern the first hour is the usual show the 10 o'clock the second hour is going to be the call-in segment of the show, please like, follow, and share the show. Thank you so much for your donations on Rumble as well as on YouTube. We appreciate those, even if you're watching on streaming. It helps this show keep going. We're going to go ahead and do this ad and call it a day. Did you know the biggest threat to your retirement is not something that's talked about often. Our increased longevity in America means default retirement accounts like IRAs, 401ks, and TSBs may not

suffice. If you have over $100,000 in your retirement account, get instant access to a free two-day, two-minute report from Augusta Precious Metals that reveals the one step you can take to secure your financial future. Text SAFE to 35052 today. And also thank you to Mustang Renegades, now a monthly supporter. I think that was you in the waiting for the last to make one more question. And if so, please call back tomorrow earlier in the show. And we will definitely get to you. John, always a pleasure to you. Good to see, Ted. I'll take that test and let you know what it says. I'll see you.

All right. See you guys tomorrow. 9 o'clock, 9 o'clock a.m. Eastern time. Thanks for everything. Bye. Bye, everybody.