DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - Trump Targets Leakers Who Revealed Depleted Iran War Munitions | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas

Episode Date: August 7, 2026

Conflict reporter/writer/cartoonist Ted Rall and political analyst Jamarl Thomas deprogram you from mainstream media every weekday at 9 AM ET. Today we discuss:• When there’s a problem, what do you do—fix it? Or blame the person who points it out? Trump threatens to hunt down “leakers” after news reports detailed a depletion of munitions stockpiles. The military has burned through nearly all of its offensive Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMSs) and Precision Strike Missiles (PrSMs), and there are low levels of Patriot and Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) interceptors has caused greater concern. Replenishments of pre-war stockpiles will take years.• What’s going on at the Interior Department? Normally boring and staid, since Doug Burgum took over last year, there has been confusion and concern that the agency is poorly run, has devolved into secrecy and has lost thousands of the staff needed to manage the national park systems and millions of acres of public lands. These complaints come as Burgum entered into bureaucratic infighting with Washington’s top prosecutor, Jeanine Pirro, over how Interior handled accusations of vandalism in connection with criminal charges centered on renovations to the Reflecting Pool. Pirro, according to The New York Times, laced into Burgum and alleged Interior misrepresented how the pool’s lining was damaged.• Russia could attack a NATO country within weeks to test the alliance’s resolve, US intelligence warns. US officials believe Russia might attempt to escalate tensions by mounting a small land incursion or launching cyberattacks across eastern Europe anytime from this autumn to 2029, the Wall Street Journal reports.LIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowhttps://x.com/tedrallhttps://x.com/JamarlThomas#tedrall #jamarlthomas #news #politics

Okay, let's try this again. This is the reboot seven minutes in of D-Program with Chad Raul and Jamarle Thomas. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in and for bearing with our tech glitches this morning. I suspect that a certain small Middle Eastern nation might be somewhat responsible for this, and I'll explain that. I have reason to believe that. Good morning, J.T. How are you doing? What's going on, man? How are you guys doing? Well, as it turns out, you didn't miss a thing, except apparently we both sounded like,

like RFK Jr. because so we had to reboot the stream completely from scratch. All right. Everyone says, all right. Second time's a charm. This success. All right. So Robbie, if I could ask you to please go into the streams and update the descriptions and everything into YouTube and Rumble because if that doesn't happen, it's hard for people to find us. But I would do it right now.

All right. Oh, and kill the old one. It just fucked up like people weren't hearing us. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's still like a frog, evidently.

Hey, Kermit. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, okay, that's good to hear. All right. Well, we're back. We're up and running.

So as Robbie was explaining, trying to explain, yesterday we had a show meeting and we figured out some stuff related to the financials about how to make this show move forward and be viable and thrive in light of the fact that Rumble is completely going haywire and is scurring over. its creators. So what we are basically we have kind of a multi-tiered option here. First of all, we're asking people to on YouTube, please, please, please subscribe. If enough of you guys subscribe on a regular basis, we will have no problems whatsoever. Currently, total transparency. We are getting about $600 a month in subscriptions. Obviously, you know, look, there's three of us here.

even you know there's just no way even if robbie is making most of his money elsewhere that you know this show can thrive on six hundred dollars a month so if we can get those numbers way up like i hate to say it but we need those to be multiple multiplied i'll buy a lot um that will make it that will be a big game changer um also for people who want to make regular uh sort of one-off donations through the super chats and the rumble rants none of that has changed that's still completely fine The other thing is we will be putting up the PayPal account that you can send, you can send us money that way. I'll put that up right now.

You know, some people don't like Rumble, but they like PayPal. Some type people like PayPal, but not Rumble. You know, we'll try to figure out other ways to receive money. I mean, God, you can send us money through Bitcoin if you want through the Bitcoin wallet. Anyway, Deep Program Podcast at Gmail is the way to donate through that way. Again, the Super Chats and the Rumble Rants still will be great going forward. But the one thing we would love, love, love, love, love would be a lot more subscriptions. And you get different rewards.

We're still working out some of the details there. One of the things I have in mind is to throw in some of my books at certain tiers. So you can get a signed copy of one of my books. Maybe even if you're donating very generously, I'll even throw in some original cartoon art, which, you know, hell, you could sell that and make money. You could make dozens of dollars on that. No, probably more than that, especially if I die. So the reason I suspect a certain small Middle Eastern nation is I've been having all week long,

I've been struggling over at rawl.com, my website, dealing with DDoS attacks. And basically they kept shutting down my archives and stuff like that. I was talking to Cloudflare. I was talking to my hosting service. And they said, look, it's hard to tell because, you know, they disguised these things. But it looks like it's, you know, some, it's politically motivated in some way. And so I'm thinking, well, who am I not particularly nice to who has a lot of hackers? But I mean, it could be anyone, obviously.

But anyway, so, but I'm going to just choose to, you know, go after Israel because, you know, why not? Okay. And I also got some good news. So for those of you who are hoping that Robbie would be pushing buggies at Walmart, I regret to inform you that that is not the case. I will be able to stay on the show. I was able to land a new client yesterday. And that fills the John-sized hole that ripped a big.

Notice my mug, my Montana mug, in your honor. I do. I appreciate that. So the John-sized hole has been filled. Now, the rumble-sized hole is still there, but that's an easier hole to manage. And so I'm not asking for a nickel of y'all's money, not one dime, not one penny. So it's not a John-sized hole in your heart, only in your wallet. Only in my wallet.

My heart is very, very small and very, very hard, has many calluses on it. So it's fine. It's kind of like the hole of old iron sides. How much time with that new position take? Is it, and maybe that's a weird question, how many hours would that new position take? Or is it, I mean, that's none of our business, but I am curious on how it will, But you were a couple of time anyway. So I guess it's a move point.

You were doing hours. Yeah, because it's just going to be, it's just going to be a, it's just going to be a, just a lateral move. It'll be about the same. But no, if y'all can just keep on doing what I've been doing with just letting my YouTube videos and Rumble video stream, whenever I go live over on Rumble, pop over, drop a chat, call me a Nazi, drop a turd emoji, doesn't matter. The unique chatters, that kind of thing, between Rumble and YouTube.

I should be fine. And the reason I bring that up is I told Ted, and I'm telling JT now going forward until this Rumble thing gets fixed, I'm not going to take a salary from them. I'm going to refuse it. They're not going to pay me. Whatever Rumble. You're not taking a salary from Rumble? No, I'm not taking a salary from this show. Because Rumble just screwed the show over so much. The math doesn't math three ways. It doesn't make any sense. So whatever Rumble and YouTube pays me, that's what's going to be. and with y'all just hopped over on the streams and stuff like i said i'm asking for a nickel just keep doing what you're doing let the videos run let the playlists run on rumble on youtube if i go live on a rumble come we just job a chat that's it thank you thank and by the way so we have we have some comments and they're pertinent to this if you so one of our regular commenters uh donating his dollar as which he does all the time they do add up i'm poor on s sdi can you do

level one for a hundred bucks paid in advance in full discount to pay by the year you know yeah i think we can you know we can we can be flexible um what we'll have to do is create a um a system that's not fully automated and i can do that i'm good with spreadsheets and stuff like that um and so yeah there's we should be able to do things like that so guys just bear with us i mean yeah the the the rumble rants and the super chats are great for today and whatever but like starting next to week we'll start rolling out the exact, you know, a mechanism for doing all this. Because we have to do a show while we're also trying to, you know, we're kind of like, we stole the car and we're learning how to drive it right now.

So, you know, it's like that. Scott A. Britain, thank you so much for the $100 donation. $100. Good morning. I don't want to see you guys go anywhere. And we don't want to go anywhere. And we're not going anywhere. But we just need your support.

I mean, basically the show needs about $4,500, ideally about $4,500 a day in total revenue, adds everything and in order to make it. Hopefully we can keep that going. Okay. Corb, 11776, as much as Robbie pisses me off, I would hate to see him go. You've all become a part of my daily life fan weekdays. Thank you so much. You're awesome.

Thanks for Alexander for the. 100 Norwegian Krona. Robbie went from backstage to main character. He's certainly a character. Unlike you and me, Jamarle, who are just plain ordinary people with no character at all. Anyway, all three definite characters, no question about it. Okay, so here's what we got today. So Trump is pissed off of the fact that the,

that the U.S. military is out of weapons. So he's so pissed off that this news, not that it's happening, but that the news broke. So he's threatening to hunt down the leakers. We'll talk about that. I didn't ever, I did not anticipate that I'd ever want to talk about Doug Bergam,

about anything. But apparently, he's fucking up the interior department, which used to be the most boring thing in the world, six ways till Sunday and creating major crises there. And I know you'll have thoughts about that, but also I know you'll have thoughts about this, JT. They are claiming they, the immutable they say that Russia could attack a NATO country within weeks. They could.

I mean, I mean, that is true. They could. I mean, that is not untrue. But I guess the implication is that they probably will. They say that Russia might attempt to escalate tensions by mounting a small, land incursion or launching cyber attacks. Poland is the country they're talking about the most. Anyway, a lot to talk about.

Anything else you guys want to talk about? Put those comments into the live chats if you're watching in the 9 a.m. hour on YouTube or Rumble, much appreciate it. Oh, by the way, we have a comment from maybe Bluthfunk. Also, you guys may want to find a way to get people's emails so that in case YouTube or Rumble kills the channel, you still have a way to rebuild the audience. Yeah, that's a good idea. That's a really good idea. This is, you guys, this is going to happen. This is their business model. Thank you. Yeah, no, we definitely need to do that. Okay. All right. That's a good idea. What do you want to do?

Let's start with, I guess, low-hanging fruit, start where you ended Russia attacking NATO. This is nonsense. Like, do they have the power to do it? Yes. Has anything happened to give any indication that Russia is planning to do that? No. I mean, keep in mind, the criticism that Putin is hit with, even in Russia, it's not that Putin is too aggressive, is that he's too weak. Like, meaning, even though Putin's approval and everything else is high, that's some people will make the argument that's based on the military prowess up to this point where Russia continuously moving on the front lines. A lot of people have made the argument that Russia should have already hit Europe, because everything Europe has been doing up to this point has been a cost of special. for war. Those people, however, need to, on some level, get in mind what that means and what will

happen the moment that that happens, which is the precipice to the end of the world. So thank God, the air that we breathe is a gift and a benefit from Vladimir Putin himself every day. I'm serious. I'm being serious, right? Like, Putin has been out like a preacher begging people to come to Jesus, even as the war has been taking place, effectively saying, what are you doing? Like, meaning you are bringing us to the precipice. At a certain point, it's not going to be up to him. He is going to have to respond in order to offend Russia.

Now, the catch becomes up to this point, he's done this by isolating all of that war machine into Ukraine and even then fighting with one arm behind his back. Nothing that he has done up to this point has given any indication that he wants to expand the war into NATO. I think this announcement is nonsense. Like normally, many of these announcements that are come up are just not sense. Well, okay, the only reason that I give, I would not dismiss this 100% is because, okay, 99 times out of 100% out of 100, these things are bullshit.

But there is the fact that like in the month or two before the special military operation, the 2002 invasion, that the, there was a, you know, there was a warning from the U.S. intelligence community that Russian troops were massing on the border in Belarus and that they were going to come into Ukraine. And that did, in fact, happen. You know, I mean, I have, I have to give it that level of credence and just say, like, it's not, it's not, it's not, the record's not great here, you know, but in terms of But there were Ukrainian troops on the border that all of those reports continuously ignored, meaning nobody was reporting that Ukrainian troops had landed on the border. And from the Russian point of view, they would be insane to not have their troops, like basically backing against those troops.

Meaning it wasn't like a singular thing. The U.S. kept reporting Russian troops on the border, Russian troops on the border, continuously ignoring the fact that Ukrainian troops were on the border. I think that's a little bit different. I mean, I agree with you. I understand your point that this was reported. This did happen. And by the way, everyone at the radio station got it wrong. Yeah.

I don't know if you were there. Well, we didn't think it was going to happen. Nobody thought it was going to happen. I mean, you know why? Look, I don't think we were, okay, we were not wrong to be wrong. And here's what I mean about that. And I mean, I guess, hey, I'm preparing for my career in politics. It's like, I don't think we were wrong to be wrong because they've lied to us and they've hyped this so many fucking times that, we're like, come on, like Iraq has WMDs and, you know, Gaddafi is planning to kill everyone

in eastern Libya and oh, and yada, yada, yada, Iraq is, you know, uses chemical gases against its own people. Assad uses, you know, chemical gases against his own people, all of which turns out to be crap. And then so you're like, okay, well, here you guys go again. When some, I mean, this is, they were the little boy who cried wolf. And so, of course, we ignored them. I mean, we weren't wrong to ignore them.

I love that. We weren't wrong to be wrong. I love that. Oh, I'm taking that. That should be a name of a book. We weren't. I love that name. That's so epic, right?

That's like the Bill Clinton thing. It depends on what the definition of his is. It's like, what? Well, and by the way, I do know. I mean, like, you know, Bill Clinton, by the way, his mistake in that whole stick is, you know, he was told, oh, this deposition that's being videotaped, that videotape, never be released. It will never be released. Never believe that. No. Anything you put, anything you say can and will be used against you, you know, in the court of public opinion.

No question about it over and over. All right. So if, all right, but let's follow this threat a little bit. I do not need to spend a lot of time on this story because I don't think it's worth a lot of time. And look, if something happens, we'll be talking about it for a long time. Just to your point, it could happen if NATO does something to make it happen. Sure. Like it like they would have to do something provocative though like for example Russia has already warned Hey if you and that to be very clear everything that NATO has done up to this point has been across his belly Meaning if Russia bombed a German plant making drones that were used to kill Russians They will be perfectly right in doing that meaning that's that's that's a normal circumstances that's considered across his belly

Whether they will do it or not is secondary to the point that they could do it and make the argument you are making drone parts that you are given to Ukraine in order to attack us your airspace is being used to attack us, meaning any of these things can make a claim a fair game. I guess my thing is a fair game doesn't matter. Ultimately, this is the issue of war and whether or not a particular power has a capability of doing what they said they're going to do. If Poland uses this airspace or if the Baltic states allow their airspace to be used, Russia has already warned them that you're eligible for attack. So you're right. They won't do anything. They won't do anything. That's the thing. They won't do it. Listen. I know, but if those are, why won't they do something?

Because because Putin is militarily weak. Economically, he worked, he worked a miracle for for Russia. He brought the country back from the dead. The man deserves his flowers. Well, if Putin turns around and bombs a Berlin plant that is building drones, hell, building missile parts. Let's even go further. They're building missile parts in order to give to Ukraine to fire into Russia. what immediately happens after Russia bombs at Berlin?

Absolutely nothing. Article 5. You're wrong. Article 5, 100% goes immediately. They will lose their minds. You're going to be. Of course it was a manis. No, because you got to go.

They'll want to go. They'll be, those fingers will be looking at the launch codes. I mean, they will be. No. They will be zoning for Article 5. Now, you can make the argument that the U.S. won't get involved. They're going to screen for it.

won't get it. And here's why. Nations work according to their interests. Europe cannot do anything without the United States. Trump, as insane as he is, is not going to trade New York City for a for a Berlin plant that's making factories. Case number two. Spain has no interest in going to war with Russia. Neither does Portugal. Neither does Italy. France, the French people would never put up with it the germans would start screaming the polls are beating their chest yeah let's do this that's round three baby the polls would want that of course they would but but the other nations though in western europe are no we're not going to commit suicide for you you are you are a co-belligerent if you are engaged in offensive action which they are article five does not apply here

they're not going article five does apply all of course it applies interpretations they do apply They apply it. They think it applies. Meaning, Europe has gone with this argument that Russia is just a war of aggressions, trying to take over all of Europe, et cetera, et cetera. That is what they have ran with. None of it is associated with the truth. The truth didn't matter. And I'm telling you, they are going to be spinning up for war.

They are going to be screaming. Russia attacked us for no reason. This is an unprovoked attack, et cetera, et cetera. They are going to be spinning up for war. Spilling up with what? I'm a serious question. What do they have? What does you have? What do you have? Like France has ICBMs. I mean, they have They have armaments. They have the capability of launching. I mean, somebody's coming. They have their weapons.

That's what they have. Written and France have news. I understand that. But they are not going to commit national suicide. Well, one way goes home. They have been committing national suicide with this war with Ukraine. A slow frog. A snow frog boiling is different than getting newt. I know, Robbie, but you're saying, that countries work in accordance to their interests. Except for the fact if those countries are ideological. All of these countries in Western Europe are ideological. Yeah, I mean, think about it. They blew up the, they destroyed their own economy by pulling up a pipeline that they needed.

This was the second time I'm going to refer to that episode, that section of idiocracy where the guy cheers. It's like, they're blowing up your car. They're blowing your pipeline. They're like, yeah, blow that pipeline up. And their economies go to shit. It's like, that's your pipeline. line. They have been working against their own ideological interests for years. I understand that. So, but I think that here's, I think here's what the disconnect is. And I'll go back away to

produce your land. The disconnect, just to boil it down is what they'll do. Yeah. Meaning if we tell you, if you put it this way, if you believe that this will end up in nuclear war or had the potential, even by 20 percent, do you still make that assessment? So here's, here's something. looking at this. That's a yes or no. The argument that y'all are making is that Europe is effectively a crusader state. No, the argument that I'm making is that they will spin up to war the moment that one of the countries are attacked. With what? They're bankrupt. That's the point that I'm making. With what? Without American support, they can do nothing. Robbie, you're assuming that America doesn't get dragged into the war. Why would we? You said, why would we? Yeah,

Why would we? Because we're the main state in NATO. And we've been propagating war against Russia for the last time. You're a member of Article 5. But a proxy war is different than full-on thermal nuclear war. Listen, I mean, y'all could be right. And I would, if y'all are, I'd be the first one at my crow when the missiles start coming in. Well, that'll be, that'll be of great numbers.

I don't give a shit about your crow with the world ends. I get dibs on the first, I get dibs on the first tin of water biscuits. I got. Right. It's like, hey, man, the world ends. My bad. I don't want that. I guess.

I think the thing is, I mean, Robbie, here's the question. Here's the thing, right? It's that thing about what's the risk, right? So is the risk greater than 50%? No, of course not. But is it greater than 0.1%. Yes, it is. Yeah.

But you know what? I was higher. Europe slept walk to war in the first world war. And, you know, there have been conversations where many of these people were even relatives of each other. They were like cousins and whatnot in royalty and in, control. They still ended up one step after the next slowly dragging their asses to a world. And if you read the, I mean, I know, Robbie, you have read this. You know, you read the contemporaneous

accounts among journalists and top politicians. They were all bemoaning it. Like, we all see this coming. We know this is coming. There's nothing, you know, but like, and no one yet no one can or will stop it. Yeah. I guess here's the question. And this is the question that only y'all can answer i've never been to europe so let's just assume that the russians grow a pair of of balls and blow up a missile factory it's being used to kill young russian men let's just assume that well they would have every right to of course i understand that let's just assume puttn't his slumber long enough to i don't know let his uh generals borrow the army is he's not asleep he's look he's just extremely cautious and frankly

given the fact that like you know who he is the job he has and and and the place in history the time and space that he occupies i don't blame him i mean i think i mean i i do like he's too far right wing for me but i understand why the russian people keep keep voting for him and support that listen the dude's stable and listen it's probably best for the whole world that the president of russia does not have my temperament or the temperament of that's true because i think j t i think you're probably on my page of this. Yes, I'm on your page. I'm more like Putin.

I'm more like Putin. I'd be careful. But here's the question, though. Let's just assume Russia did this. And then there's a call to war from Western Europe. Would the populations of France and of Italy and of Spain and of England finally rise up and say no, we cannot do this? I'm going to quote this really good friend I have from Montana.

Okay. What the people think doesn't fucking matter. It would in this case. The public opinion does not matter. It would in this case. These are not democracies. Okay. I agree.

But France wasn't a democracy either when the Bastille got stormed. No, no, there are, there, no, there is a presence in human history for oligarchs getting their heads removed and put on spikes. I know, but I have to, but I don't know that as a flat fact. Yeah. And what I do know is that we've had a pass of multiple wars where societies were whipped into war. or whether the societies were at the beginning of it, wanted to know. Hey, Ukraine, right? When Ukraine voted for Zelensky,

they voted for Zelensky to stop a war. When the U.S. voted for Trump, they voted for him to stop a war. I don't know that stuff as a flat fact. I can only go by, what do I know in the context? Like, for example, if I'm playing a game in chess, there are patterns or areas that it just don't go because I can't predict how they come out

because I don't want to lose the game ultimately. Could I possibly win going that route? Yes. Do I know that? No. Is there a pathway that I think I have a better chance of winning that is more structured? I'm going to take that. It's safer. And you can say, well, Putin doesn't have a pair of balls. Odessa port is blocked off. Ukraine is effectively now a landlocked country. Russia has been decimating gas stations, meaning there may be a strategy and play in between laying down and going to sleep or versus bombing a German plan. And that seems to be what's happening. Like, for example, what happens the moment that Russia decapitates Ukraine as a country, meaning Ukraine falls apart? Does Europe continue the attacks? Well, no.

Or maybe. But if they do, they're doing it from their soil, not Ukrainian soil, which makes it far more dodgy. And it may provoke the war that you seem to be, you know, edging for. Well, so we'll see. I mean, ideally, I would just, I've let, I've let the dogs loose. and in this thing, go to the Polish border and say it's over. Russia, listen, no nation can afford a perpetual war. That's the same for Russia, that even the United States has limits.

And if you keep nibbling and you keep nibbling and you keep nibbling, eventually you come apart. But I don't think they're nibbling. I mean, look, the fortification is nibbling in Russia. How many Russian soldiers are getting killed every single day? Well, wait, wait, wait, the fortifications that are in Ukraine. Ukraine are Soviet-style fortifications. Those things were built to last. Russia is effectively unraveling Soviet armaments. Scott Ritter's been saying that for three years. Because they have been well fortified. Like, this is a magic, right? Like, you can make out,

and also, let's be honest, Russia didn't go in this, I think, with the initial idea that this was going to be a war. I think the SMO was probably not. I agree. I thought that they were going to go like, No, it's political. I mean, you can't invade a country the size of Poland of 200,000 men and half of those are logistics. The math doesn't work. Exactly. So, I mean, so I think from my point of view, they had to build up to the point of being able to fight Europe. Like if you remember at the very beginning, as you point out, 250,000 men, well, Russia is sitting at like 800,000 men with 30,000 men approved, like applying a day. They have built up a war, warfighters, as heck stuff would call it. They could have that fight with Europe. But I don't believe for a moment that Putin thought in the beginning of this war or even within the first two or three years that they were ready to take on all of NATO.

Let me ask you this question. Now go away. Do you think that it's in Russia's interest to drag this war out that I've got it that I've got inverted? Like Russia's is trying to cause so much economic debt and pain that the economy is the West war. No, that's the Iran. That's the Iran model. That's not Russia's model. I don't think that's the way they thought about in the beginning. I mean, that obviously ended up being an effect. They've made the most of it.

I know if that was the feature or if that was the side of it. I think they've made the most of it. They wanted it to be over in a heartbeat. But I mean, look, obviously it's bricks would never have happened without it. There's been, you know, I mean, you know, China was always a thorn in Russia's side for, you know, a long time. Now they're buds. I mean, so all that's, you know, there have been some, from Russia's point of geopolitical point of view, this is, in the aggregate, worked out pretty well, but they would like to bring

this in for a landing. Mm-hmm. Do you think that they'll take Odessa, J-T? Like, do you think that Russia will annex? Yes. Emphatically, yes. That happens really much. Which is, by the way, which is why the war is not going to end anytime soon.

Yeah, because that's a big, that's a big, that's a big bite to chew off. It is. It's going to take a lot of it. They're always challenging for invading armies, right? I mean, like the, you know, with the allies did not want to liberate Paris when they, after D-Day, they wanted to go straight to Berlin because they were like, we don't want to be responsible for that huge population. Even though, you know, after the exodus in 1940, the population of Paris had shrunk from like two and a half million to half a million people. They still didn't want to feed half a million people. And it was like, but they, you know, politically they had to.

And it was, it had slowed them down. It probably prolonged the war by at least six. months. But see, Odessa is a Russian state. It was a Russian area. Right. Right. And I think from it will be greeted as liberators. That's different. And the problem also is if you allow Ukraine to maintain their ports, then they make it start using those ports and import more weapons and everything else into the country. You don't want them having access to the Black Sea where they can attack your ships or for that matter where they can import things that you don't necessarily. I mean, Ukraine's always going to have access to the Black Sea. I mean, that's just the map.

I mean, they don't have it now. They'll have some access, right? I mean, they don't have it now. They don't have it now. Look it up. They're imports and brought to zero. Do you think that, okay, let's foregame this out. Do you think that the Russians will push all the way to transnistria?

Oh, I don't know. Because I'm not saying because the death is militarily necessary. I was also, well, it was also founded by Catherine the Great. I mean, there's a historical precedence there. But I mean, if the idea is, you're right. And I kind of, in my mind, the border, that that water border with Ukraine is bigger than it really isn't that big. It's true. Yeah. I mean, I mean, right now. I'm sorry. I mean, if the idea is to bring the Russians home, then you can always bring Russia to the Russians home.

And let me just stop the history. The entirety of the idea. Like, I don't think Russia wanted to be involved in this war. I think Putin is right when he said, when they lifted a finger to go after Ukraine. Of course not. Well, why would he? It was stupid. I mean, this war is not good for Russia. It's not good for anybody. Well, it's good for some people. It's good for real. I mean, in retrospect, Russia's going to end up being a superpower at the end of this. I mean, they are. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not that I think they wanted it.

And it's not that I think that they liked it. But I think the power differential between, let's say, Europe and Russia have been clarified in this war in a way that I don't think could have taken place without the war. And by the way, it takes a show of provocative strength. in order for people to realize how strong you are sometimes. Would NATO allow that? So if the Russians start advancing... They don't have a choice. Okay, now you're making Robbie's argument. Oh, Robbie, I've never greatly disagreed with you.

I've only disagreed with you about whether or not it would end up in a war. And I don't want to, you know, I want to continue to breathe there. But... Well, if NATO sends peacekeepers into central or Western Ukraine saying, no, dear Putin, you can't go any further. They're going to die. Do you think so? Yes. As a flat fact, yes. They have to. Like, look, some of this stuff, I don't think I'm making a, look, I agree with you. I guess what I'm saying is those peacekeepers will have to, by definition, die. If you send in 20,000 troops and you call them, quote, peacekeepers. Okay, those are just military from NATO countries. And if you allow 20,000, then you allow 100,000. Then you allow a million.

Agreed. The first 5,000 have to die in order to get across that anyone. that's coming into into this area is militarily just part of the war which is what russia said but i guess i'm saying it because it's a logic issue you have to do it if you don't do it you've allowed nato to occupy a part of ukraine so you're saying that nato would accept dead you dead nato soldiers in ukraine but they wouldn't accept a blown-up missile factory in berlin oh i don't care what nays yes that's exactly correct i mean ukraine is not a nato state Right. And if you're sending soldiers into it, a war zone, you're sending soldiers into a war zone.

This is the exact, this is the core of the core issue in the conflict to begin with. This is why Russia doesn't want Ukraine to be a member of NATO because they don't want that kind of hair trigger right on their border. I mean, Russia's not that worried about like they're not going to accidentally get into a border skirmish with Germany because they don't have one. But with Ukraine, yeah. Yeah. Listen, hey, listen, I agree. And I think that Putin should put this thing to bed two and a half years ago, but yet here we are because he's too cautious, in my humble opinion. Well, I mean, a lot of people share your point of view, for sure. Yeah.

All right. Let's move on here because there's more to talk about. Okay, so, should we talk? I guess we're still, we'll, we should stick on matters of war and peace here, right? So the U.S. military has burned through almost all of its attackums, the Army tactical missile systems. It's presumes, the precision strike missiles. There are basically, you know, I have more cats than the U.S. has Patriot and Patriot missiles. One cat, yeah. And there's no more thad interceptors either. Basically, you know, and replenishments of all these pre-war stockpiles, you know, before we went to, we dragged 14 countries in the Middle East into war, not counting all the other bullshit we're involved in.

You know, it's going to take many, many years despite, but what do you want for your $1 trillion a year in defense spending? So the Trump administration is pissed about these leaks, which keep appearing in major American media outlets. They're getting worse and worse. Apparently, the more news that comes out, obviously, you know, people in the military are very displeased at the poor management coming from the White House. And that's why they're leaking, right? They're trying to affect policy and they're trying to get even with what they see as they've been their voices have been ignored As usual, Trump is doing what all you know, it's a lot easier to when you're fucking up and you're being stupid And corrupt it's a lot easier to to go after the people who are exposing you than it is to become smart and stop and stop being corrupt

So that's what he's doing here But, you know, it's Washington, right? I mean, you know, leakers are endemic. There's no way to stop it, is there? I don't think so. I mean, he can do, I mean, look, this was an issue for Obama, right? Where Obama was going to crazy. Yeah.

And it was the issue for Trump in the first term, and it's an issue for Trump. Now, even for Joe Biden, it was an issue, especially people who were talking about how Joe Biden was out of his mind. Okay, Joe Biden can stop those leaks, you know. Not to mention, it didn't help when he's wandering. into the wilderness or he has this debate performance, right? It's like, oh, yellow, just kind of wandering about him, lonely as to bring him back. You know what? I thought that was one of the most feminine and beautiful things in the history of things,

the way she grabbed him and brought him back. And it was so gentle, almost like a child and a parent who has amnesia. It was very, I don't know if you remember the moment that happened. I just point is leaks are as an American is apple pie. And you're right. I agree with you. I think the leaks are coming out because, A, I think the way the truck is using the military is to the detriment of the military.

And the military notices and is pointing it out by exposing this or somebody is exposing this. And it makes us look weak. It makes like meeting. We look like a pedias. Yeah, for all of this provido. Because in one sense you have, oh, we can do whatever we want. They're destroyed. We've taken the Air Force Navy.

We own the straight of her moves. It's open and blah, blah, blah. And then you get we're out of weapons. Okay, you wouldn't believe we're out of weapons part more than Trump because Trump is alive. That makes us look a particular way. And then reporting came out that Donald Trump effectively eviscerated Hegsef saying, why didn't you tell me that we didn't have this, which is interesting in and of itself that I want to talk to you about. Why didn't you tell me that we were running out of weapons?

Why didn't you give me a heads up about this? Why is this being elite, et cetera, et cetera. And Hegsef, to his credit. as an alcoholic and as a TV host, blames his subordinate. This guy, Bob, Bob Tom, Bob Cobb is an app. Asshole, asshole. Yeah, what an asshole, right?

What do you make of like this thing of, you didn't tell me this? Because that's what it's being reported. I actually believe Donald Trump that nobody told him. But that's true. I mean, look, by all accounts, he followed, He's one of a long line of leaders in politics and corporations who can't be told the truth.

I mean, come on. Who among us hasn't worked in an organization where, you know, the boss didn't like bad news and certainly didn't want to hear it from you? And you felt like you'd have your head bitten off if you delivered it, right? So everybody just shuts up. I mean, it requires, you know, cultivating an atmosphere of openness and encouraging honest, you know, feedback, even when it's uncomfortable, is something that most leaders aren't very good at. And by all accounts, Donald Trump is really bad at it.

He doesn't do this at all. I mean, everybody's scared to death of telling him the truth. He's surrounded by yes men and toadies. He appoints people who are not only ideologically aligned with him, but who are temperamentally, you know, basically they're lick spittles, right? They're ass lickers and toadies. So, you know, I mean, I can drag up other, you know, sort of 16th and 17th century terms. But, you know, that's his story.

And, I mean, of course, no one's going to tell. If you were Pete Hagstaff, would you go to the Donald and say, oh, Donald, we're out of weapons? Because, you know, you gave too many to the UKEs and you gave too many to the Zios and now we're all out. Oh, our bad. I mean, he'd be like, get the fuck out of my office. You're fired. right like that's what he's going to do so no one wants to be fired no one wants to be yelled at by the president so of course he yeah nobody told him no one's going to tell you anything i mean look

i remember having this argument as a parent with my with my ex-wife and you know my kid would tell me the truth and lie to my ex-wife and and i remember i was like you know she was complaining about that and i was like i've earned the right to be told the truth because i don't freak out If you tell me the truth, I will be like, okay, all right, let's deal with this. And I won't yell at you. I will not make you feel miserable. I will not make you regret. I'll make you happy that you told me the truth.

Well, Donald Trump hasn't earned the right to be told the truth. He doesn't cultivate that kind of, he doesn't have that kind of leadership style. He's a bully. I mean, you know, I don't think there's anything more to it than that. What do you think? No, I agree with you. I agree with everything you just said. I guess the question, but that leads.

to other questions, right? Like, meaning if Hegsef is not telling Trump the truth about this, what else does Donald Trump not know? That question is, because this gets to the whole thing of, is he lying or is he out of his mind? That's actually a profound question. Because oftentimes when Trump is saying stuff, I keep, initially, I thought, he's obviously lying. How is he coming to this assessment based upon the reality of events on the ground?

Like, meaning, sure, there's a fog of war. But within the context of as the fall starts to dissipate, you get a certain assessment of things. You may not know the exact details of what takes place on the ground on everyday basis, but you can see the contours of it. And I keep thinking to myself, is he just out of his mind? Like, how are you lying? And the answer is. Yeah. And now, I don't know.

I don't know. Obviously, he's a habitual liar, but I don't know how much of those lies are lies or how much of it he just wasn't told. I don't, yeah, I don't think it's lying. I mean, you know, you remember that, you know, that internet meme from the amazing film Downfall, where Hitler's in the bunker. And, you know, Hitler finds out is the meme, right? Hitler finds out this and that. And basically, it's always like, you know, what was going on there. It was the fall of Berlin.

And he, and basically there's that amazing scene where he takes off his glasses and he's like, and he's like, everyone get the fuck out of the room. just you, you, you, you stay. And then he yelled at them. And basically, what he's just learned, he's like, well, call in the reserves. And they look at each other. They're like, sir, there are no reserves. And it's like, that means you're fucked, right?

Like, you know, you're down to like nine-year-old boys, right? And I think, you know, Hitler was not as bad as Donald Trump and Joe Biden and Barack Obama. And maybe Barack Obama was better at this. know. But in terms of accepting and being open to negative feedback, I think, but Donald Trump, no fucking, I mean, you know.

No, he's not that guy. But yeah, I mean, so they didn't tell him the truth, but that's his fault. Yeah. Right. He cultivated that that management style of basically toties. I mean, the only thing you want, like,

I mean, it's like, dude, if the only thing you want are yes men, then you can't be shocked when the answer is no and they still give you a yes. Right, right, exactly. You can't have it both ways. I want people to always tell me yes. Okay, well, they always told you yes. Yeah, just like you asked.

Yeah, and to be clear, Hitler wasn't, Hitler got off on making several good, provocative military decisions in the very beginning that he guessed right, that he wasn't necessarily going to get the blowback, that many of the people and the generals around which is why he used to always yell at his generals talking about they were too weak and everything else.

But you're right. In that moment, Hitler was out of his mind. Like he thought... He was hopped up on amphetamines and really stressed out. I want to be clear. I don't think Adolf Hitler was insane

until like the last six to 12 months of the war. Of the war, yeah. People called him insane, but I don't think it was insane at all. I think he was head of state. And to be honest, I think we should look at him

as if he was head of state. Meaning in the same processes that take place in America when we do things, it was just like in Germany. Like, meaning it was a state. It wasn't like this rando general of sorts took over. He was head of state. And he was a very intelligent man. Well, I don't know about that. Hitler?

I don't know with that part. No, I think he was. I mean, well, okay. We'll have a Hitler off at some point. We have a Hitler debate one day. Yeah, that'll be rumble premium. All right. Yeah.

I mean, he brought Germany back from the dead. Talk about no Putin working a miracle with Russia. Yeah. I mean, Hitler did. He did exactly. But he did sit through bullshit economics. It started to go war. It still worked.

I mean, and deficit spending. Up to the point where he didn't. Yeah. Well, that's where we are right now, right? You're 40 trillion dollars in debt. Hitler would look at that. Yeah, Hitler would have never done that. Yeah.

All right, yeah, I mean, it's true. There's a lot of stuff that we do that Hitler would view as extreme. Okay, we've got to talk about Doug Bergam. So, okay, so Doug Bergam is this super, this guy who made a shit ton of money in the Dakotas as an energy baron. He wanted to be secretary. He was a huge supporter of the Donald in his 2024 run. And when it came time for, you know, the spoils of victory, he asked to be Secretary of State. Donald Trump, in a wise move, did not choose Doug Bergham to be a state and decided to make him to give him a consolation prize instead, the Interior Department, which I will say kind of almost felt like it fit because he's from the Dakotas. And when we were, you know, us east coasters, we think like, oh, you know, it's like those flyover people.

Like, you know, they love their national parks. Of course, Doug Bergam's nothing like that. He's an energy. but you know we kind of thought that but the point is it turns out Doug Bergam has uh basically is running the he's he turned out to be insane so people are leaving by the thousands from the interior department um there's massive secret he basically does everything the most trivial communications through encoded signal chats so that there will be no records of anything that he's done he wanted to install a skiff in the interior department department. Okay, dude, this is not the NSA. Okay, this is the interior department. This is like about trees and bears and shit. Okay. And like, you know, he's he's wrapping up like the Grand

Escalade, you know, national monument. He's de-turning, he's de-monumentizing it. But basically, he's raping and pillaging our national parks and public lands. And he's like, and then while this is all going on, he's at, he's at war with. Shene Piro over this reflecting pool thing, which turns out to basically be, look, it may or may not be his fault. It might be Donald's fault for driving on it. But it certainly, you know, it happened under his watch. And it was a very high profile. And the Republicans made this terrible mistake of launching a major social media campaign talking about how beautiful the reflecting pool was over and over and over and over and over. And then people paid attention to the, the reflecting pool because this was their fault. Talk about an unforced error. And then like, okay, it's like, oh, well, now that you've called our attention to this rather, you know, gay subject about like how blue the water is of the, of the reflecting pool,

oh, it looks like shit. Oh, I'm going to go, oh, fuck. And that's all on Bergam. And then, you know, he has people arrest. The DOJ has people. He, Bergam's like, arrest some people. Blame it on them. Never mind that one guy's a member of the U.S. Olympic team.

Yeah. You can't make this shit up. And then like Janine Piro, who, you know, she's a, she's an avid right winger, but she's like, even for her. She's under the bar. I'm not, I'm not sending innocent dudes to prison. I'm just not. Right.

Like, you know, so. And by the way, good on her for that. Yeah, yeah. No, she has a low bar. It's a low bar, but put on her. Yeah, they shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. But yeah. Yeah, she had died of her.

By the way, I'm not against a reflecting pool. I think it would be nice to have one. But all of this stuff is- We already had one. It was already there. I would fill it up, honestly. Which is why I didn't quite understand the story of what they were doing. They were just renovating the pool.

Yeah. Yeah, it's always been a pain in the ass. And it's always been hard to maintain the water levels, prevent leaks, prevent algae blooms. I mean, you know, because it's shallow and it's like 18 inches deep or something. I mean, it's kind of a dumb 100-year-old idea. I mean, honestly, they should fill it in and put in like an esplanade like in Paris, like in the Tullery, the Garden of the Tulleries or something like that.

Just like with trees, so you can walk there on a hot day and get some shade, some flowers. It'll be nice. I'm not against a reflecting pool. And we spend a trillion on the military. The least we can do is keep up basically a pool. That's true. You can say that about literally anything, right? Yeah, but this feels like a low bar to be able to accomplish.

And the fact that they weren't able to do it feels dumb to me. Like it feels like the reflecting pool is, is, what's the word of before? It's reflection, shall we? Yeah. Of something else. Thank you. It's an allegory or reflection for other stuff. And in fact that they weren't able to do it.

And then their response to this, let's just find somebody else to criminalize. And we have to do it. That feels so dumb. But it feels very illustrious of other things. Like meaning, I don't know if the reason that Trump put so much energy into it is because on some level, he understood the allegory. Like, if you can't do this basic thing. By the way, did you see Janine Piro, Jeanine Piro with the boxes going into the White House? No.

So there's a picture. There's a great image or a great video of Piro taking boxes into the White House. Because Trump effectively, she was trying to convince Trump that the issue was a renovation, not the people. This was after the case was dropped. And Trump was losing his mind about it. Well, that is, I mean, obviously that's what happened. We should, we should definitely kill the paid comments before the end of the show. It's the end of the week and everything.

All right. F you say, thanks for the dollar. What will it take for the U.S. and Russia to break out their alien tech weapons in this war? Hilarious. Phileas Fav, thanks for the dollar. No, don't take that shit Libby phrase. They say, well, we might have been wrong, but we were wrong in the right way. Ultimately, isn't that the most important thing.

John D. Cackefeller, thanks for the dollar. Robbie, I think you're missing the key point. The U.S. economy is completely geared toward war. We can pump out billion-dollar jets, but we can't manufacture cookware if there's a war or a reflecting pool. If there's a war, we're in, we need war. F.E.C.O. Thanks for the dollar. America has shot its load and is all out of Viagra. Manchild, Trump believes.

the word affordability was a recent invention of the democrats for fuck's sake um really he thinks that he might he never had to he he never came across the work it's like people you know it's like that's real yeah he came on social right he came out true social saying that affordability that's that that's a democrat term that's insane that's that's a word in the english language such as 1600s. Yeah. Yeah. About fish of water.

Bad cookies. Jamarle, back when you were on fault lines, you didn't think Russia would invade Ukraine. Yeah, we talked about that. And neither did I, until the day they did that. Nobody did. Everybody had to have a come to Jesus moment. I feel this is another one of those moments.

People think they won't do it until. I mean, that could happen, sure. But they would have to be a reason for it. Adamar and Iraqe. You guys should listen to some Gaddafi speeches. He said that Israel will destroy Mercia for their greater Israel. Interesting.

Robbie is my favorite crusader. Says Sean. Okay, Dark Works. Didn't Russia hit a couple planes at an airport somewhere, like a warning shot? What, recently? Yeah, I don't know. Not that I'm aware of it, no.

I mean, are they talking about it in Europe? Not in Europe, no. If you don't want in Africa, I'm not aware of any shots in Africa. John D. Cockfeller gets the last word here. I mean, is there even really a leaker necessary? when it comes to our depleted arsenal. We're handing armaments to Ukraine and Israel like candy at Halloween without World War II levels of manufacturing.

Yeah, but the empire wants to look like it has no limits. Right. Meaning we don't like to acknowledge limits. And if you're running out of anything, that's by definition, a limit. True. All right. So speaking of limits, we've reached the limit of this show for today. We are now push.

It's 9.59 a.m. here on the East Coast. We'll be back Monday morning at 9 a.m. Eastern over the weekend, we'll set up some donation stuff, so to make things clear. And we'll be explaining all that. And I'm sorry we have to do that. But we do need money in order to continue. And we really do appreciate your guys enthusiastic support, especially the big donations today. Keep them coming. We will hope you guys have a great weekend. Please stay tuned now for the TMI show coming up right now with me in Manila. At 11 o'clock, because it is Friday, it's time for the DMZ America's podcast with me and Scott Stantis. We'll be talking about the civil war inside the Democratic Party, which we've, of course, talked about here. And we'll talk to you later. See you later, JT.

Have a great weekend. I'm sure we'll talk. Everyone, guys.