DeProgram with John Kiriakou and Ted Rall - What Is Tucker Up To? | DeProgram with Jamarl Thomas and Robby West

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

Have a question for Ted and/or co-host Jamarl Thomas? Join the hosts of "DeProgram" for a full hour of nothing but LIVE Q&A! Any topic, any question, goes—it's up to you. Q&A extras are every Monday and Wednesday at 12 noon Eastern time.Ted Rall and Robby West handle Friday Q&A after Jamarl’s absence, covering subscriptions, STEM versus liberal-arts prestige, last-meals, Israel’s Barron Trump claim, secession, revolution versus collapse, Tucker Carlson’s cross-partisan America First project, libertarians, angels and demons, and John Kiriakou’s CAA move, gilded-cage social media, and PBD Zionism clip. They stress local politics over third parties, authenticity over people-pleasing, and the need for grassroots support.https://x.com/tedrall https://x.com/JamarlThomasLIVE ON RUMBLE: https://rumble.com/c/DeProgramShowSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/2kdFlw2w8sSPhKI8NRx8ZuAPPLE MUSIC: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deprogram-with-ted-rall-and-jamarl-thomas/id1825379504

you're watching the Q&A episode for Friday, August 28th, 2026. This is D-Program with Ted Raul and Jamarle Thomas. No Jamarle today. We don't know why, but, you know, ours is not to ask. This is the Q&A show. Robbie West sitting in. He's going to be filling Jamarles shoes, and I'll be, I guess, trying to fill my own shoes.

We are here Monday through Friday 9 a.m. to 10 a.m. Eastern time with all the analysis that you need about news and current events. We also have a Q&A show, which goes Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I think this is going to be one of the last like sort of open Fridays. Mondays and Wednesdays will continue to be free. But the Fridays are going to be quarantined for the subscribers. So we're definitely hoping that you'll consider subscribing. We need seriously hundreds of people to subscribe to the show to make it work. And things are moving in the right direction, but they're far from where we need to be. So I will go ahead and put up the data for that. If for $499 you get to access to exclusive shows, for $10 a month, you get a thank you in the outro of the show, you know, the closing credits. And for $20, you get to participate in the exclusive Q&As and also our monthly hangouts.

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but it's patreon.com slash CW slash Dprogram podcast. So, okay, I'm trying to think if there's any other housekeeping stuff. If you have a question, comment, whatever, go ahead and put it into the live chat here in the 12 o'clock hour. on Friday and we will, whether you're on YouTube or Rumble, makes no difference. We will get to your chats. We are particularly grateful for the paid ones. Those are the Rumble Rants and the super chats on YouTube.

And basically, that's about it. How you doing, Robbie? Anything new and exciting in the last couple hours since we last saw each other? A couple of things, yeah. So I'm really kind of taken away by this. Six people have become paid subscribers over there on my YouTube channel, which is huge. Seriously, thank y'all. Because what the changes of Rumble is made, I won't be taking a salary from the program,

at least not until the show just starts earning more. So I'm using Rumble and YouTube, kind of fill up that gap over with my gaming channel. And for those of you who have come over and helped, I really do appreciate it. Seriously, sincerely, I couldn't do it without you. And so that happened. And I've just been, I had my golden grams, serial champions. Golden grams. Yeah.

And getting some coding done. So yeah, it's been productive morning. Tired. I'm ready to take a nap now. Yeah. Well, it's only 10 o'clock in the morning for you. All right. So, oh, yeah.

And by the way, there was a comment from one of our regular listeners slash viewers, maybe Bluth Funk. She said, you guys should bring the oil expert back. Yeah, we should, I mean, it's obviously time. The oil markets are about to hit the, you know, the shit's going to hit the fan. I mean, I can't believe it's taken so long. I guess it's almost like nobody wants to, you know, until the train actually runs over the lady tied to it, nobody's going to acknowledge that there's a problem.

But we can all see that train coming. and it's coming. No, for sure. And also, Neat Benny became a paid subscriber for the channel over on YouTube during the morning show. So thank you for that. Thank you, Deep Benny for doing that. And Harrington 8635 has a question, Ted.

I said, does our culture moralize liberal arts achievements over STEM achievements? I think so. Does it prioritize them? Yeah. Or lionize them more? Yeah, valorize, so I guess lionization. Yeah, no, I think for sure. I mean, it's not that, you know, look, if, I mean, if you think about like scientists who come up with incredible things, for the most part, the general public will never, ever hear about them.

even discoveries that win a Nobel Prize. Okay, yeah, you win a Nobel Prize. But, you know, your university is going to be happy for you. It might get you a promotion, but it's inside baseball, right? I mean, it's not going to be like you're going to be interviewed on NPR. You're not going to be on the CBS Evening News. You're not going to be all over social media. Most people, you know, even if you met them at a bar and tried to explain to them what you did for a living,

wouldn't even understand. So, yeah, no, I mean, having, I mean, I think I have a little more insight into this than maybe the average person just because I used to be an engineering major, right? I mean, from freshman through junior year, I attended Columbia University's School of Engineering and Applied Science as a major in applied physics in nuclear engineering. And then they expelled me. and I ultimately graduated as a history major, you know, six years later. And that's a – and so I've labored in the liberal arts.

I've never worked as a scientist except – I mean, I've never worked as a scientist ever. I've done computer programming. I've done other STEM-related stuff. But as a young man, and I've spent most of my life writing and drawing and doing radio-type stuff or TV stuff for a living. So I've seen both sides, you know, I've done books, and I would say this isn't such an anti-intellectual country, and it's so weak on science and math that it's just, you know, I think people just can't relate to it. People are like, you know, I know what singing is. I know what books are, but I, you know, I don't know what string theory is. What do you think, Robbie?

I think it just kind of just shows us how the culture is degenerated. I mean, think of it. about it. This is the country that invented the skyscraper. This is the country that invented the nuclear bomb. This is the country that invented ironclads, battleships. This is the country you can make the argument took the industrial revolution with the steam engine that the British made and then perfected it. This is the country for the first time in history. It was able to transport, was able to transport armies during the American Civil War using mechanized machines, trains, and with the the first time armies are able to move in the modern age further than what the Romans are able to do. So to say we can't do these things that America's intellectually backwards is a very recent phenomenon. And it's because I think an educated population is harder to control. It's they want us

dumb. They want us stupid. They want us unable to think. I think that's all the reasons why there's no debate clubs in high schools or colleges anymore. They don't want you to know. know how to think. That's why there's such emphasis on getting people out of the library and on the Instagram. It's not that Americans are stupid. It's that our government does not want us to be educated. And you don't have to go to college to be educated. No, that's very true. I would say I learned a lot more outside of college than I ever did in college, even during the years that I was there. Yeah, no, I mean, look, the thing is, American, look, I'm glad you brought up American because it's huge. And I mean, I'm researching a book about my hometown of Dayton. And by some

counts, I mean, at least arguably, one for decades in the 20th century, Daytonians and southwestern Ohioans held more patents for amazing inventions than any other region of the United States. So I'm from a, I mean, if you go to the Carolan Park Industrial Museum in Kettering, Ohio, Maybe it's in Dayton, it's right on the border between Kettering and Dayton. You will see these, you know, the things that these amazing companies made and the men, men mostly who worked at these companies made. And, you know, the innovation that came out of southwestern Ohio, and now it's all just Rust Belt and post-industrial healthcape, that is, it's sad to me.

You know, we're, it's going to be hard to make America great again in any meaningful way until we change our priorities in that respect. And I don't know if we'll be able to do that. Why, why educate your population if you could just import a born to population instead? Well, yeah, well, you know, if you really want your country to prosper, but I guess if you don't care about that. Mattio V5. Thanks very much for the $20 donation. Much appreciated. Okay.

What would your guys death row meal be? Robbie, I'll let you go first since. I would like to go with a nice, big, thick, juicy steak with loaded mashed potatoes. Making me hungry. Maybe some celery on the side. That'd be good. and then I would refuse to blindfold. Well, I don't know.

Does lethal injection get a blindfold? No, I haven't assisted on a firing squad. Yeah, it depends on, does Montana have firing squad? No, but I would insist on it. No, but there's no remission to sin without the shedding of blood. So let it out, maybe. I'll be a martyr. So, okay, so honestly, I'm not sure.

I'm the kind of person who, like, my. appetite vanishes when I'm upset. So it depends how calm I was going to my death. And if I were scared to death, I probably wouldn't eat anything. A lot of convicted people go to their deaths and they leave their last meal uneaten, probably because of that same reason. That said, you know, I think you and I are on the same page about the steak. I think I would go staccopoeuvre, slathered with rich creamery butter, lots of salt and pepper, maybe some mustard and a mustard vinaigret salad on the side, maybe some truffle fries, given that if we had the choice, which I hear that you don't really get the choice anymore, Robbie.

I don't know. Montana, we don't have the death penalty anymore, which is interesting. Nope, Montana's kind of famous for being a Western state. But yeah, no, I've been, and for the drink, I have to go with an ice cold Coca-Cola. Yeah, I think I'd probably go for a beer. I mean, get as drunk as you can. Margarita, margarita. Okay, so Neat Betty asks, have you guys heard that Israel told the U.S.

that there's a plot to kill Baron Trump? Yeah, we talked about this on TMI. Iran rejected the claim. I don't think there's any verifiable evidence that that happened. Right? I mean, I think it's been kind of debunked. It's just more lies. It's Israel.

That's what they do. They lie. It's really kind of a, it's an interesting griff that they have going on, right? Because they're too cowardly to send their soldiers to go fight their genocidal wars for them. So instead what they do is that they get us to go fight for them. We get us to spend our money for them. We get us to sacrifice our sons for them. Meanwhile, if someone complains, they then get to turn right around and then call you an anti-Semite for refusing to go fight for the little ethno state.

Well, I mean, in fairness to the Israelis, they are willing to go kill the Gossans themselves, although they do it from the air, right? 99% of the time. Gossans can't fight back. There's a difference. You're not a warrior. if like for example Colonel Shivington when he went and he attacked Sand Creek

the reason why he attacked Sand Creek is because he was a coward. However I know he was a coward. It was because those Indians have been disarmed there in Colorado. They were under they had an American flag over their village the warriors were out hunting and so he attacked

the women and the children who could not fight back. That's what Israel does. Well it's very honorable. Sure, I guess. So honorable. Super honorable. Yeah, so, okay. Let's see what else we got here.

If you're just joining us, thanks for tuning in, by the way. This is the Q&A episode of Deep Program. Robbie's sitting in for Jamar. It's me and Robbie, answer your questions and your comments. Please put them in the live chat, YouTube, and Rumble. And we will answer them all. especially appreciate the paid superchats and Rumble Rents, but we do do all of them, but don't let that disincentivize the paid ones.

Okay. Tara Prida Wilde. Question. After the midterms, if they happen, I expect to see a resurgent of succession talk, regional like State of Jefferson becoming its own state or existing states networking to counteract the fed's thoughts? I hope so. if at first you don't succeed try try try that'll be your next t-shirt well i mean it's true i mean

the states have the power to do this it's just i don't understand why americans are so cucked how do you not know how your own government works well no why because we're not educated we just We just covered this. I mean, there's a reason why the United States has states and not provinces. There's supposed to be sovereign, independent states linked together in a federal union for commerce and the common defense. You're never supposed to be a slave to Washington, D.C. No. Sorry, I'm just adding some propaganda here.

So we do have T-shirts and a Clovis mug. We have a T-shirt for each of the hosts. Go check that out. Official D-programm merch. The URL is. It is deprogram. Dot my spread shop. I'll leave that up for a little bit.

Okay. So, yeah, I mean, there's always talk about this. I mean, there's even talk of Staten Island separating from New York City. There's been, you know, renewals of the old Aaron Burr. idea of like a separate New England, California and Texas, constantly talk about splitting off. I mean, that's sort of

Octavia Butler's the Parable of the Sower scenario, which, by the way, Robbie, I would strongly recommend if you haven't read Parable of the Sower. It's a trilogy, but that's the first one. So good. It's basically post-apocalyptic United States

and it's split up into different provinces. It's kind of it's like a post-Soviet kind of of dissolution scenario. But it's well worth reading. And it's got like a, I would say it's got a spiritual slash religious aspect to it also. Okay, so Enique Benny is asking, if a revolution ever did happen, what do you think would be the breaking point?

I would say things are going to have to be really bad economically. You would have to have such desperation. that people feel like if they don't over if they don't resort to violence to overthrow the state that they're going to die and their loved ones are going to die. So it's not going to be over some abstraction like gun rights or abortion rights or you know or or federalizing elections or something like that. It's going to be about economic issues. But I don't see how you get there without an organized left.

wing political organization. And, you know, I don't mean like a lame one, like the DSA. I mean like a radical left organization. Well, the difference between a revolution or a collapse. I think a collapse is a lot more likely, and that scares me a lot more. Yeah, well, me too. In fact, I addressed, you know, I wrote a book called The Anti-American Manifesto, and it was 2010. That book was a big deal in Occupy Wall Street, like it was studied at the encampments and stuff, and I, you know, went around the country and talked to people about it. And in that book, I basically argue why we need a, you know, we need a revolution instead of collapse, but the collapse is far more likely. I mean, it's far more likely. I mean, the thing about a revolutionary situation is when you get

a revolutionary moment, what you want is a revolutionary organization that can channel that energy and organize people into creating a new way of life and arguing for new rules that will replace the existing system and replace the existing set of elites with a new set of rulers, hopefully from the working class. You know, we don't have that. And that's what scares me to death. I just don't see how you're going to, like you, Robbie,

I think collapse is far, far more likely in this country than revolution. And it's a major problem because with collapse, there is no rules. And so if you if you're concerned at all about the well-being of people who physically cannot defend themselves, like young children, the old, people who live in big cities, just simply to have access to resources, a collapse is the last thing that you want to have happened because after three days of no food, people become animals. And they start doing things. normally would not do. And if you don't, and you're, the only thing is able to save you at that point

is, is an organization of force. And then what does that look like? Well, if you live in a real country, you can at least kind of get together around a shared tradition, a shared heritage, a shared region, a shared culture, and you're able to kind of coalesce that way and build a common defense. If you have a, if you have a transcontinental country where you have a majority of nothing, And to take it a step further, the government and the NGOs constantly in order to stay power, play the same game that the British played in India, but dividing conquer between the different racial, ethnic, religious groups. And then you figure in class on top of that, there's no solidarity at all.

It's literally the survival of the fittest. And I don't, that's the last thing you should want to have happened. So people who just kind of cheerlead this thing, you have no idea. deal what is that you're advocating for because more people are going to die of hunger and starvation than they are by bullets and you're going to be condemning an awful lot of innocent people to die with the guilty ones yeah no doubt about that um okay so mattoe v5 thank you so much for becoming a monthly supporter if you haven't already done so please be like matteo we do need monthly supporters and just a reminder $20 gets you the whole shebang and we really appreciate you.

Over on Patreon there's all the details. You can also, if you don't like to do it through YouTube, you can do it through PayPal and become a regular supporter and you'll get all the same benefits. You can also do it through Patreon. So just go to that URL that I'm going to put up on screen for Patreon. patreon.com slash CW slash T-D-program podcast. That's Patreon.com slash C-W slash D-Program podcast. Just rolls right off the tongue. It does, that that?

So easy. Harrington, 8635. Thanks for the two for, thanks, Ted, for the amazing Lake Saras article. Yeah, for people who want to find that, you can just Google Lake Saras, S-A-R-E-Z. and my name. And it should come right up. It's an article that was in men's journal. It's also on my website, rawl.com. If you put it in maybe rawl.com, it'll come right up. But it's an old piece

that I wrote back about 15 years ago about this, the sort of Damocles in Central Asia. And it is something that, you know, people really need to pay attention to in light of the current story, the horror show coming out of Nepal. and Tibet. All right. Do we have any other, oh, here we go. This is a question for you, Robbie. RACL-1979.

Robbie, do you think Tucker's political project will be able to resist being co-opted by the Republican Party? Do you think the libertarians have been co-opted, yes or no? So I'm going to add a second part to the first part. So first of all, if you can just sort of explain what Tucker's political project, is for people who might be familiar, and then answer whether it's going to be co-opted by the GOP or not, and then get into what you think about the legitimacy, the independence of the Libertarian Party. Yeah, so basically what is that Tucker, after he found religion, he decided that he could not

be a part of the Republican establishment anymore. So after Trump's complete betrayal of the country and of the populist right. So he's no longer to play. He's no longer to play that game. He's teamed up with Thomas Massey. He's teamed up. He's working on actually signing up with a bunch of people, politically to his left. Who's from the left that's part of it? Well, like right now what he's done, no, he's been talking with a Chink Jueger and a Kasparian. I don't know if you can show him real lefties or not, but he's talking to

him. He's at least no extending that. of all the branch. He's, Dennis Kucinich, just a lot of your, a lot of other just kind of old school lefties, a lot of academics. Got to know, what is it that the American people need? Because we need to have some kind of a change or that collapse you're just

talking about is going to happen. And so to answer, so to answer your question, how can Trump keep, or how can Tucker keep this and be co-opted by the Republicans is by bringing in a lot of populist leftist voices. It's kind of like an oculation.

That's how you're able to kind of do that. It would be like having a Robbie and a Ted, but only magnified at scale. So if he's able to do that, yes, the question is going to be, though. How would that work? Why would having lefties on board keep the GOP out just because they just can't play with the left?

Yeah, pretty much. No, confirmation bias is one of the biggest things that anybody has to look out for. I know I do. that's one of the reasons why I like to read a lot of books, a lot of media that I fundamentally do not agree with as opposed to reading with stuff that I do agree with because it keeps me intellectually honest.

And so if you're going to have any kind of a movement, especially a populist movement, you've got to realize that everybody has to have a place to live. Everybody's got to have food. Everyone's going to have jobs. And everyone is worried about what is this country going to look like at five years. And so if that's your concern, The whole team politics has to be replaced.

You got to leave your jersey at home. And you've got to be willing to work with people who you disagree with on a lot of things, but you're able to agree with on the big things. And so if they're able to make that happen and become what the squad back in the day promised to be, if they're actually able to make that happen, but they focus on local elections, not just national, then you got a chance to really make something happen. Your sheriff election matters more than the Attorney General of the United States does.

That people who are elected to your school board matters more than you're who your congressman or your senator is. And that's one thing that Tucker's really trying to do is trying to make, is trying to get Americans to realize politics always starts locally. Start local. Then work your way up. And so if he's able to make that happen, then we have a chance. if he's not able to, who knows? What about the libertarians?

Libertarians? What does that even mean? Well, you know, there's a libertarian party. I think that's probably what the... I get it, but I mean, listen, we're past the point now where you got to deal in this thing called the real world and not in theory. That's one of the reasons why the political moderate now is useless. There's nothing more useless than a moderate. And that's what libertarians are. They're, for the most part, moderate.

It's kind of middle of the road. It's time to pick aside. Are you going to be a patriot or are you going to be a Tory? This is one of those defining issues where if you are really concerned that the country is in a very bad shape is in a very bad way. And if you refuse to go out and support someone who really does want to try and bring about institutional change, you're worse than an enemy at that point. And that's what the libertarians are. So if you want open borders as a libertarian because you think that a nation state is a artificial construct, then you're never going to have a place to the populist movement because the free flow of people depresses wages.

That's the biggest problem with the libertarians. What do you actually believe? If you just think that you should be able to sit around a fire and sing kumbaya and everything is going to be made, is going to be made better, I don't need you. You are at best a Sunshine Patriot and you enjoy the chains on your wrists. And I hope that they rest comfortably and don't chafe. Me, I prefer dangerous freedom. Let's talk a little bit about Tucker, right? So what exactly is Tucker on about? I mean, is this going to be a political party? If so, is it a political party that will have only a presidential candidate or it'll have more. What's that going to look like? If it's not a political party,

what is it? Is it an association? Is it an organization? Is it a discussion group? Or have they just sort of not, are they working that all out? Or is it just like at this point, just bloviating on the internet? I think he's, I think you're really trying to do, he's trying to build a movement because Ted, you know this better than, better than anybody that I know. It's almost impossible to make a it's almost impossible to make a viable third party. You have to go in. You have to have a crap ton of money. Then you got to have the signatures.

And even if you get onto the ballot, the Republicans and the Democrats aren't, we'll let you all to the debate stage. And the mainstream media is just going to ice you out. It's never going to happen. The difference between a political party and a movement is that with a movement, you work within the existing system. Basically, you are a cancer. You're like, you're a computer virus.

You go in, you infect the code. That is literally your job. And so if you're a leftist, a leftist, a lefty populist, I'd like, say for yourself, let's just say that Syed was the real deal. I don't think he is. Let's just say that he was. He has a chance to go in and infect the democratic machine as a virus, like Agent Smith back in the matrix.

Whereas if you're a righty, if you're able to elect someone like a, like a Robbie who's actually eloquent and is able to, is well spoken and doesn't piss as many people off, he can do the same thing on the right. And then because the Congress is so, it's so evenly divided, all you need is like eight to ten people. And you can paralyze the entire system. That's how narrow the margins are. That's all you need. That's how you're able to force the votes.

Like say, for example, if, no, the NDA is a great example. It is a must, it is a must pass piece of legislation. Yeah, what does that even mean, by the way? Well, that means that if the NDA is, doesn't get passed a lot of the funding doesn't go through a lot of the funding mechanisms fall apart the government shuts down uh Israel doesn't get it's it's billions of dollars in foreign aid and so sad and so all you need is enough people to hang just to hang in there together and say listen until you bring say universal health care to the floor for a vote we will paralyze the system

you force concessions that's the whole point you all you're trying to do is force is this force an issue. If you even have to win, you just have to force people to vote. And on this voting present crap, do you, do you, Mr. Democrat, do you AOC truly support universal health care, Medicare for all? If you do, here's your chance. You get to vote yes or no. And then you have to explain that vote once you vote present to the people who sent you to Congress. That's the whole point is to get people on the record. Okay, so what do you think, I mean, what do you think they're going to do? I mean, there's been Flash and the Pan movements, for example, in 1892, the, there was a

populist party convention held in Cincinnati. I have, I collect political ephemera and I have the, the medals that people came away from from there. And all they came away from was the metal that I have. they, you know, the party, they did run a candidate, but nothing happened and the thing fell apart quickly. I mean, do you think there's going to be a convention that leads to, you know, something bigger? Do you think this is just going to be, I mean, how do you build a movement without, you know, from the top down? I mean, it's Tucker Carlson's from the top.

He's an elite. He's a rich guy. He's the heir to the Swanson's fortune. Yeah, for sure. I mean, how are you going to do that? I mean, it's not going to be, how is he, I mean, he, is he willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to have, you know, door to door organizers, you know, try to build things up from the grassroots? I mean, I'm confused. It's kind of like it seems very airy to me. Well, you don't have to do that because, and you know who taught us how to, who taught us that's not necessary?

Donald J. Trump. He won the presidency with his Twitter account. Well, but he did it by hijacking one of the two major political parties. And that's exactly it. Possible takeover. And that's one of the things that Tucker is trying to organize this movement. Like it's forget Republican Democrat, forget left or right. It's are you America first or not? No, we can argue.

Which party is he looking to hijack? Both of them. That's one of the reasons why he's talking a lot of Democrats. He's talking more Democrats than he is Republicans. I mean, one of the things that people have got to realize, especially when it comes to the political right. The Republican Party is so merged with Kofi and A-PAC, Christians United for Israel,

the Zionist lobby from an evangelical standpoint. It's always impossible to run an anti-Israel candidate, an America First candidate in the Republican Party. The Democratic Party does not have that problem. And so that's one of the reasons. If you're going to play this thing, smart you've got to play both wings but i mean i would say the republican party because they don't have the super delegate system are more they're they're more vulnerable to being taken over than the

democrats yeah the dnc has a stranglehold on the party and that's even with the chaos and you know and the fact that they're broke right now i mean they're they're two million dollars in the whole they literally aren't worth anything um a homeless person on the street is worth more than the DMC. I mean, yet there's no way to fucking break in. Just ask Bernie. Ask Bernie. Look at L.Bernery.

Well, Bernie is a sell out anyway. Yeah. Well, that's true. Well, the thing is, I mean, if you're able to get a lot of these candidates and if they, so think about what this show is doing right now. We just did a call to action for the grassroots to come in

support with small donations. Five, ten, twenty bucks. Yep. That's what we're doing. If you are running an America first candidate, either as a Republican or a Democrat, you're not going to get the corporate voters. You're not going to get the corporate donors. And frankly, you do not want them.

That would be a poison pill. That's the last thing that should. Oh, yeah. You want to answer. You go to the dance with the people that brought you. Well, Bernie did prove that with the $29 donation model. Yeah, for sure. So you don't, so to answer your question, yeah, you're able to do it.

But I think the breakout's going to happen. It's going to happen more with local elections at the county, city, and state level. And they're working. I think you sometimes overstate the importance of, like, your local sheriff versus the attorney general. But I will say you're totally right. You want to build a political party. You've got to build it from the ground up, not from the top down. Because we know, because the top down model has been tried over and over and over again with the greens and the libertarians.

and it's shiny and sparkly. Like, look, we're running someone for president of the United States. But, you know, the thing is, it's two out of three local races in this country are completely unopposed. Like, literally there's only one party running in them. Like, there's not, there's, you know, not both a D and an R. I mean, there's a lot of opportunity at the local level to go after some comfortable incumbents who, and build up from there. those people can, you know, become a farm system.

And yeah, you can start running people for Senate and governor and eventually president. But it takes time. Well, one of the things that I saw in the chat is that Robbie is buying into the third party stuff. I'm going to make this very clear. A third party cannot win. It's stacked against it. That's not the point. That's not the objective.

That's not the goal. The goal is to hijack the existing political parties. One of the two big ones. Yeah. I think it would most likely be the GOP. Just, I mean, I do. Horses are people, too. Which one run both.

Do you want to go after both political parties? Well, then, look, if you succeeded in doing that, you would end up with a monoparty and a dictatorship, which is a whole different thing, too. Ted, that's what we've already got. That's the, you know, so Robbie, do you believe Tucker's story about the demons that scratched up his back? Do real biblical demons operate like that?

Or is it more about abstractly influencing the world around us? I believe, I do believe his account. I think that's some of the reasons why he has such a big change of heart. And listen, demons are real. No, we live in a very, in a very, I guess you can call it an atheist, an atheistic society where, you know, there's no, there's no room for the paranormal, but for the vast. But for the vast quantity of American history, that's been foundational. People have always believed it.

Yeah, demons are real. I mean, listen, I've told the story before where I had an encounter with an angel. And maybe a lot of people haven't heard that story. I don't know. But yeah, the spirit world is real. Angels are real. demons are real. There are a lot of things in this world to happen that we cannot understand that science cannot explain.

You know, I kind of, a dusk burn says something I kind of agree. What we need is to hijack one of the billionaire tech bros. We need a surprise plot test. I've always kind of wondered about that, right? Like, why is there never? I guess it's just, as a Marxist, I should know better. there's just never going to be a a class trader to that extent

someone who just makes billions and then decides like fuck it I'm blowing everything up Bullworth style and I'm going to rock and roll they just don't do that because it's not their it's not the class they're from it's like asking a dog to meow it's just not going to happen yeah I don't know I mean

listen at the end of the day whenever you live in a representative cell of government like what we live in, you get the government that you deserve more often than not. And so if all the people want to do, just sit and complain about the people who are screwing them and then turn right around and do nothing to oust those people, then you get the government that you deserve. Yeah, yeah.

Freedom is hard. We have a donation from San Palmasano, a very nice donation and we really appreciated $20. And he says the anti-Masonic party was the first third party in America. It's probably time to bring it back. At this point, we just need something. We just need in all terms of what we already have. I mean, it could be dog catchers of America at this point.

It doesn't matter. I think that one thing that everyone's able to agree on is that what we currently have does not work. and anything that attacks the status quo, even at a small way, is good. Now, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. It's kind of like what Iran did. The United States prides itself as being this monolithic superpower. Okay, well, let's take a look at the record.

We attacked this little third world country on the other side of the world that we've had sanctions on for 40 years. and lost. What does that do to the American elephant? It takes a bite out of it. All of a sudden, we're not as scary as we used to be. We support the Nazis in Ukraine. We think we're going to defeat Russia, bring them to their needs economically,

and then break the country apart into 12 different, in the 12 different smaller republics. Russia is still there. I mean, is Putin being too soft? Yeah, but can anyone deny that Russia's won, the war? No. So that's, that's two losses that America's had. Then let's factor in Afghanistan. We go there for 20 years to replace the, to replace the Taliban. And then we leave arming the new Taliban government with American tax, with American equipment paid for it by the taxpayer.

So that's three losses back to back to back. Can you honestly say that America is still a superpower? I can't. We're definitely a superpower still, but we're definitely in trouble. you know both of those things are true um okay let's um i wanted to uh where is this comment that i saw i'm kind of like wanted to address it oh yeah so um mike hawk by the way just says uh is he talking you about vietnam again someone named him a war america has won oh come on we kicked ass in grenada um is what the first goal for that was a resounding american victory So there was a comment about Tucker.

Oh, yeah, here it is. From Mark, Robbie, what do you have to say about Tucker both saying his dad was in the CIA and then in another show denying it? Doesn't that mean he's by default that he's, or I should say by definition, that he's a liar? I've never seen where he denied that his father was in the CIA. Tucker's even said that he tried to join the CIA and he wasn't able to join because of drug use. So, I mean, if, yep. He was a joggy.

Here's Kizzy. She's over here chiming in. But I have never seen where Tucker's ever denied that his father was involved in the CIA. And one thing, and listen, I know I get a lot of flack for this. Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about Tucker the way it was about Trump. I don't know. The reason why I think that Tucker is sincere is because he's done something that no one in American politics has ever done.

He's a policy. the comment. At a turning point USA event, a student asked Tucker if his father's background in the CIA meant the government wanted endless wars. Tucker said he would kick his student's ass if he brought up his father again. He didn't deny the claim instead calling his father a wonderful man and demanding privacy for him. Yeah, but his father just died like a day before. I mean, I'm sure. Apparently never, he's, let's see, now there's, I'm just looking, Tucker. Yes, no, Tucker's never denied it, apparently.

I mean, he's never, I mean, he's never denied that his father's in the SIEA. I think that what it is that he took, and again, I mean, I'm not going to speak for Tucker. I never met the man. Never talked to him on the phone. I would like to, never have. Now, I think that probably what happened is that he is that he took the question as an attack on his dad who just died and he just wasn't just wasn't happening. But he never denied. that his father's in the CIA.

Yeah. Okay, so, oh, Duskburn is requesting that you tell your end Angel story if there's time. Oh, and Duskburn also wants to know why John Kariaku has a sweet romance with Tucker. CIA connections? That question is easy to answer is because Tucker, with John Kerry Walker's latest pardon attempt, Tucker's the one to spearheaded it. Like, he's circulated the letter, the petition. He's the first one that signed it.

Like, he's just been out there in the front trying to get John a pardon. I wonder why, but why did Tucker take this on? Well, because he went, I mean, John went to jail for telling the truth about the American torture program. I mean, think about that. So the only dude that went to jail is the guy who exposed. the lawbreaking. Well, that's often what happens.

And also, I kind of keep in mind, too, is that Tucker's on the record for admitting and then asking for forgiveness for all the horrible crap that he supported. Like, he supported the Iraq War. He killed over two years. He sure fucking did.

And so that's one of the things. Christianity is really big on asking for forgiveness. And, no, it's one of the things I like about Christianity. It's huge. So that's all the reasons why I believe him. That's why John has such a bromance with Tucker. Now, the question about how I believe about my experience I have with angels,

first, I've never drank, I never done drugs. So y'all can just pout this out. And a lot of y'all don't think that I'm about to say is a lie. That's fine. Ted, I told you this story when you interviewed me over on TMI. It's not easy thing to talk about, but here we go. You can believe it or not. It's entirely up to you.

So my dad was a drunk. Long story short, he brought this guy home. My dad, we lived on this little trailer in Pensacola. And this guy tried to rape me. I was, I don't know, eight, nine somewhere in there, little boy. My left arm was broke by my own father. And there was, there was nothing I could do. And I just know this guy, he had his hands down my pants.

I was begging him to stop, begging to stop. I was crying, begging for help. And I felt this wind in the mirror. I was on my back on a couch. I felt this wind and this guy just, he flew across the room. And he hit the wall and he started like having seizures. It's almost like you ever seen, like a YouTube video is someone being electrocator or something. Someone just being shocked or having a seizure.

That's what this guy was doing. And I was just watching. And I heard this voice. And it's just as real Ted as you talking to me. It said, Robbie, get up. And I did. And it said, you need to go to your papal's house. And I remember saying, I was crying.

I remember saying, I'm scared. And this voice said, you have nothing to be afraid of, I'm going to be with you. And I went to my grandfather's house. And I told him what had happened. And he said, Robby, that was your guardian angel. That's your angel that protected you. Later on that day, I went home to get some clothes when my dad was passed on on a couch.

and we had this 22 Essex rifle and I looked at my dad and I thought about shooting them and instead of doing that I just packed some bags clothes in my backpack and left I never saw that guy again who did that to me

and as the last time I saw my dad for like eight years so to answer your question how do I know the angels are reals because I physically went through that now you can you can take it or leave it That's what happened. Rob, do you think your dad offered you up to that guy, or it was just sort of like extreme negligence?

He was a drunk, who knows? I don't know. I know my dad was not there. And that guy was, and he tried to rape me. And there's, and then something stepped in, something protected me and that's what happened um

Duskburn says love Kiriaku by the way what but okay yeah but okay wondering why he keeps saying he's such a great guy well I think that John's very transactional

I think that's a fair thing to say he is willing to do whatever he's able to do for his self-interest and if Tucker Carlson is able to spearhead him trying to help him get a pardon, get his pension restored, get us up a few hundred thousand dollars that the government stole from him. Yeah, that makes him a great guy. I mean, look what he did here on this show. He left us to go work for CAA for a transaction,

for a transaction, a business transaction. Yep. Yep. So, I mean, you can, some people can say that's not me attacking him. That's how the guy works. He's trying to rebuild his life. He's what, 62, 63 years old now? He doesn't want to work till the day that he dies. He wants to be able to buy himself a new house, maybe have a 40-acre yard, a couple of dogs, marry some, marry some hot lady, live out his golden years and peace and luxury. And he needs to make that happen to get his pension. He's got to get that pardon. Let's see. Antiah, thank you very much for the $2.

I wish everybody had guardian angels. Robbie, were you already religious at that age? Not really. I didn't even know what it meant. And the first book that I ever got is this little Gideon's Bible. My grandfather, he had taken it from a school or from a motel or something. And we're a little noted in the New Testament with Psalms. in Proverbs. And he gave me, that's my first Bible. I still have it. And, uh, and I would go and I

visit my dad because if my grandmother caught me, she'd always try to take me back to my house for me to take care of my dad. And so I would just go out into the woods and, and up until whenever he died after, after nanny would leave, I would slip over to Papal's house and we'd sell on his porch and I would ask him questions. And he's one really got me into reading. He said, uh, so When you get done reading your Bible, study about Stonewall Jackson. Because the way he grew up is very similar way that you grew up. Just because you are what, just because you're growing up the way that you are does not mean that you have to be a victim of the way that you grew up.

And one of the books that I have, it's like, yay, they've got to bring it on one day. It's called, they called him Stonewall. It's written by British author, I think back in the 1920s. And there's a biography. It does have a very, they don't call books things like that anymore. Yep. And so it's just, I don't know, I mean, and up to the day, up to whenever my grandfather died, I would slip by there and I'd visit him and we would talk. And there are a lot of times I just told Papal's, you know, I'd really wish I would just die. So I don't want to live here anymore. So I'm just,

I'm done. And he said, no, he said, though, Robbie said, the prophet Elijah prayed the same thing under a juniper bush. And it said, it's not your time. So when would you say that you had your religious beliefs formed pretty much as they are today? Probably in my 30s when I read the full Bible through cover to cover and started thinking for myself instead of listening to preachers. Whenever I decided just to really just knuckle down and study it and read it and then try to understand what it actually says. because the things that the Bible teaches are very different from what your evangelical churches teach. They're very different things. Sensation, we do not hate John for moving on up.

No. Listen, I don't blame John at all for what he did. I get it. I don't blame John for doing what he did. The way he did it was shitty. And frankly, I don't understand why I have not fucking hurt. from him since his last show. Yeah, that's the part of this dumb.

So, you know, certainly, like, you know, you have, you know, you have every right to move on. You have every right to quit. You have every right to go on to bigger and better things. Lord knows, I have done it and would do it again. But let's just say, you know, I was in that position and, you know, it was like, you know, I had to, you know, whatever. I was in a position where I felt like I could no longer do this show. I would not ditch Jamar and Robbie.

I would not stop talking to them. I would not leave them high and dry. I would give notice. I would make sure they were taken care of. I would bring them along if I could. These are all, I mean, that's just me. And, you know, we tend to judge people based on what we would do in a similar situation. That's part of the reason people hate pedophiles, because most people aren't pedophiles.

And they can't imagine doing that. And the reason that most people aren't that mad at tax evaders is because most people cheat on their taxes. And they think, well, I secretly do that. So, yeah, anyway. So we all judge people based on, like, who would, what would we do? Anyway, John Ive is asking. Is John Less independent now? 100%.

So I was doing all of John's social media stuff up till his new YouTube channel went live with CAA. And he had to give over control of all of the social media over to them. He does not tweet on his own. The TikTok account that I made for him, they took it. Everything is sanitized. He does not have his own voice. And the things I'm telling you all right now is where I told him whenever he let me go. Because CIA said, no, you cannot work.

work with this independent guy anymore. You have to work with us. You are the brand when you work for Hollywood. And so what that means is you have to be careful about what you say. So whenever John tweets, it's not John tweeting. It's actually not. It's true. It's not him. It's literally he doesn't write his tweets. You can tell it's not his voice. The only social media he did not give them was his Facebook account. And when I was working for him, he asked me if I wanted to do it. I said, no, because you, because that's your personal account. Like you talk to your, you talk to your family and your friend. No, you're real friends there. I said, no, that's yours. That's your voice. And what I told him, when say, they told him that they, he could

not be a rumble at all anymore. That's why he hasn't, that's why there's been no new content up on his rumble account. Because the rumble is too, is too radical for, for them. It's a bad image. only social media that John still has that is actually him is his Facebook account. Everything else is completely controlled. It is curated. And when I told him, whenever he did this, I said, you are putting yourself into a golden cage and you're closing the door. And you need to realize that. It's really a gilded cage because, you know, it's not solid gold. There's not really that much money, you know? I mean, that's part of it, too. It's like, you know, as I've turned

down millions of dollars over issues of integrity. We've talked about it here. You know, I mean, it's like there's no price on your independence and your ability to speak freely. Man, I mean, that's worth billions. I mean, if someone offered me $10 million to not to, for like a deal like, like not to for a condition similar to what John has agreed to, I wouldn't take it. Maybe I'm stupid but i mean if i were maybe i might do it because i might be done but i'm you know i mean i'm not done but you're you're your own man and listen i'm i get why john did i mean the federal government they destroyed his life i get it you know you came out they came out prison he couldn't get a job at macdonalds because he's a felon right get it i completely get it i understand

and i'm not mad at him i feel sorry for him me too no i I'm not mad at all. I mean, honestly, I'm a little bit disgusted, which isn't the same thing. No, what I told him. I'm disgusted in the same way that, like, you know, when I step on my cat's poo, because he doesn't go in the litter box all the time, I'm not mad at the cat. I'm not mad at the poo. I'm not mad at my foot.

I'm not mad at myself. I'm not mad. I'm just disgusted. What I told him is that the last time I talked to him, I've not talked to him in a long time. The last time I talked to him, I said the problem that you have is that you're surrounded by people who tell you what you want to hear and not the people who are going to tell you what you need to hear and you need to stop burning bridges because one day when Hollywood has used you up, which it will. No one's going to be there for you if you keep doing this stuff.

That's true. All right. We're coming up on an hour here. I've been going hard four hours straight today. anti-101. Definitely, thanks for the donation. Definitely lost respect for John after that shit. He should have talked to Ted about it and should still be in contact.

Nothing to add there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vic S. Adams, John did go through a lot. That's true. He did. I wish him nothing but the best. Seriously. I wish him nothing but the best.

Sure. Me too. I have nothing against him. He should pick up a phone call Ted I'm not gonna I wouldn't yell at him I wouldn't give him a hard time

I wouldn't be like you never call you never write I'm sitting here in the dark waiting for your call I'd be like what's up you know

but I'm also not losing any I'm not expecting to ever hear from him I'm sure I won't anyway yeah no I mean I'm sad about it Because, I mean, you know what I mean?

Like it's weird because also there was never any tension between us. We all always got along great. You know, sometimes you have a friendship that things go tits up. And you're like, but, you know, I don't understand. You know, like I saw this coming. That was not the case here. You know what I mean? We got a call.

Well, not but wait, Ted got a call an hour before the show started on April Fool's Day of all the days. Of all the days. This is my last show. So no notice. There was not, talk, talk about a bushwhack. Yeah, no time to, no, no time to look for a, for a replacement co-host. No time to sort of prepare people like, you know, what's going on, like to explain it, you know. I mean, a lot of people, I know think that like somehow that I probably maybe Robbie, but I most likely did something wrong and pissed him off.

And, you know, what did I do to John? Otherwise, why would he do that? Look, that's all reasonable speculation. I would speculate you like that. Well, he did it for money. And ask him yourself if he'll take your, if he'll answer you. Well, he did it for money. I mean, we know that.

That's what he said on his last episode. He did it for money. And I get it. I mean, who wouldn't? I get it. Well, who wouldn't? You wouldn't? Well, of course not, but I'm retarded.

Yeah, me too. I mean, honestly, it's also not enough money. I mean, the truth is this show is doing really well. And, you know, if he just stayed with it, I think honestly, he would have made more money from this show than he's making now. Oh, for sure. I mean, how many agents does he paying for out of his pocket right now? Yeah, it's ridiculous. You're not supposed to, he's paying for his agents.

You're not supposed to, it's a grift. You know, CIA has this new model, apparently, where they reach out to podcasters and people like that. and instead of doing the old-fashioned thing, which is like, we'll make you a stab, baby, and we take a little piece of you. This is like you pay them to go out. It's almost like, what's the word? Like a vanity press.

Like you pay someone to publish your book for you or something like that. It's a grift on their part. I mean, I feel sorry for him. He didn't read the contract. He didn't really know what he's getting into. he, you know, I mean, he fucked up, in my opinion, really. So anyway, thank you, Sensation 37 for the $50 donation.

Awesome place to cut to end things today. John Doe to 8705. Do you guys see John in PBD when they clipped D program and didn't give credit. What's PBD? That's Patrick Bed David. It was his podcast. So John was on there.

They had a, so John was responding to a viewer question. And a viewer asked John about Patrick Bed David and Zionism. And John said, well, Patrick McDavid is a Zionist. And so they sprung that on him. He walked right into the ambush. And he's like, so. worries about this and at first john tried to deny it then they paid to they played the video

there's no backing that out there's a oh well i apologize i apologize you're not a zionist it's just like so you you're lying to somebody here and the way that you said way that you find someone's a zionist or not it's really easy uh mr ted roll do you believe that the state of israel has a right to exist no then you're not a zionist if you all you had to do all John had to do was asked, was asked Bed David. Do you believe that the state of Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state where it currently is? If he says yes, you're Zionist. True, by definition. You don't have to always apologize and play defense. It is okay. If you walk into an ambush and someone tries to smack you in the face, you are perfectly within your rights to verbally

just light them up. So no credit, huh? They just didn't. No, just played the clip. No, you were on. No, you were on there. And then I popped up the question. You read the question to John. And John immediately just started trying to weasel and just like, dude, don't weasel.

I told him that I was so worked for it. Or he could have explained himself and just said, oh, I thought you were a sinus. You're not? I mean, that's like a real way to handle it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, man. I mean, I don't understand why people are afraid of just being honest. when someone has asked them a question that makes them feel uncomfortable.

Robbie, are you a fundamentalist Christian who believes that the world is only 6,000 years old? Yes. Do you believe that the state of Israel has a right to exist? No, I don't. Do you believe that the synagogue of Satan is real? Yes. Well, who's the synagogue of Satan? I don't know.

Who goes to synagogue? It's the heart. John Doe says, they said they didn't even know where it came from. Come on. Be serious. Yeah, the same, I know that happened on the young Turks. Someone sent it to me. Yeah, that was beautiful.

You just got nailed. Like, oh, well, we'll just, yeah, at least no chink was good enough to lay him off the hook because he was squiggling. I mean, again, like, just be real. Just fucking be real. All you have to do is just say, like, I thought you were a Zionist. Are you? No, I'm not. Oh, okay.

my bad the end right Ted are you an atheist yes do you believe that there's a supreme being who created the universe and is in charge of the natural order of the universe no how hard was that easy easy peasy not a problem yeah robbie are you a creationist yes do you believe there's a supreme being that created a universe and orders everything yes i do do you believe there's an afterlife Yeah, I do. It's not hard. Just be yourself. Be authentic.

People want to hate you anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Stone Trader says, people pleasing, fear of judgment, fear, fear, fear, that's so true.

People pleasing is, yeah, I mean, look, I've gone through my people pleasing phases. It's, it's something that you,

people who have been abused often do. And so I get it. Yeah. So this is a great example. For example, Alm 4655, do you're at the 6,000 years old and angels exist? Robbie broke. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to agree with me, but at least you know where I stand. It's not hard.

And John D. says there's no simple rhetoric trick for these things, Robbie. It's just tell the truth because here's the thing. It's not like pros where you could maybe massage some bullshit and spin it. I mean, this is basically television. And TV is a big BS detector. Right. I mean, it's like you can, people can always tell when you're lying on, you know, on video. It's just like you're not going to win this.

So either just don't show up or, you know, tell the truth. Anyway. You know what those things that will go after I say this. I say this is real quick. A lot of the people from D program do not agree with me on my religious views and damn sure don't don't agree with me on my politics. But that being said, a crap ton of y'all have been going over, been going over to my YouTube channel and watching the videos, leaving comments. Like six of you all have actually become paid members. And that's despite the fact that y'all think I'm crazy.

Seriously, thank y'all. There's something to be said about authenticity. You don't have to agree with somebody all the time to be friends. True, true, true. And that's a great thing. Robbie, you and I don't agree on everything. Ban football now. CTE is evil. Okay. And also, please stream on YouTube. Go to Robbie's YouTube channel, West Glacier Gaming,

and hit a playlist and let it rock. Do that when you're not around, and it'll just happen on its own. Automagically. Put your computer to work, doing something useful. All right. Everyone, thank you so much for joining us.

Well, man, just the fact that six people So, Robbie, here, take my money. That's pretty awesome. That's authentic. I appreciate it. Look, we love our audience. It's a big part of the reason we do it here. But we do your money, too.

So please subscribe to the show. Please, please, please subscribe to the show, especially on YouTube, but also on Rumble. Either way, is great. Also, check out the Patreon page. I'm going to put it up one more time. Patreon.com slash CW. D Program Podcast.

We are here, Monday through Friday. 9 to 10 a.m. Eastern, also at 12 to 1, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Same exact time zone. Obviously, we don't change time zones for the two shows. Have a great weekend, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. We will see you at 9 a.m. Eastern time on Monday. Probably have a great weekend, although I have a feeling we'll probably talk on the phone before then. I'll certainly hear from you before I hear from John Kariakou. Oh, for sure. Oh, Thomas actually wants to call you later and tell you about the hell that he had with P-T yesterday.

Oh, okay, yeah. All right, I look forward to talking to him. Yeah. He actually wants you, he actually wants you to be a character reference for him. I'd be happy to. Yeah. All right. Bye, Robbie.

Talk to you later. Oh, I guess, oh, no, I need to do one more thing. I need to tip the outro music. I'm so fried. Oh, my God. Click the button, Ted. Click it. Push the button.

Push it.