Dhru Purohit Show - #239: Avoid These Things If You Want a Healthier Brain with Dr. Daniel Amen

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're not stuck with the brain you have. You can make it better. And with a better brain, everything in your life is better. Hi, everyone, Drew Brod here on today's podcast. We're talking about the top things, the top things that harm the brain. If you want to protect your brain, this episode is for you. We're talking with Dr. Daniel Aiman. He has the world's largest database of brain scans.

Starting point is 00:00:28 They're called spec scans. And all those scans have influenced his work and he knows what hurts the brain. And most importantly, he knows what harms the brain. If you want to protect your brain, if you want to prevent it from shrinking, that's a bad thing, by the way. If you want to protect your brain from inflammation, this episode is for you. Stay tuned. If you haven't noticed already, I'm pretty obsessed with optimizing my sleep. Over the past few years, I've been incorporating simple, affordable techniques to guarantee a great night's sleep.

Starting point is 00:01:00 What took me a while to learn when I first got started was that my daytime habits were affecting my ability to get deep rest, namely screen time. But let's be real, there's no way around screen time for many of us who operate our whole lives with a laptop or phone, myself included. The key is to minimize the effects of blue light or junk light, which actually suppresses your body's natural melatonin production. So two years ago, I started using blue light blocking glasses made by Blue Blocks, and now they've become a non-negotiable part of my better sleep routine. I really like Blue Blocks because unlike other mass-produced brands, their glasses are developed based on peer-reviewed literature and the science of how light impacts our health.

Starting point is 00:01:42 One of my biggest challenges was eye strain, and that's completely improved since using Blue Blocks. And I get better overall sleep when I use these glasses, especially when I'm using my phone or laptop at night. Blue blocks makes tons of high quality blue light glasses, including their clear lens line, blue light line to combat computer screens and artificial light. And they also have a summer glow line to block blue light, but add in a little yellow light for a mood boosting effect. I personally love their sleep line, which I wear a few hours before bed that blocks 100% of blue light and green light so your body can start to produce melatonin and

Starting point is 00:02:24 get you ready for bed. That's the key. Let your body do what it needs to do. If you struggle with falling asleep, combating blue light is one of my top recommendations. Blue Blocks has more than 40 frame options, which are also super stylish, which I know is important to some folks. They're available in prescription and non-prescription readers. They even have kid sizes, which I got for my niece and nephew since their school mostly switched to online. Right now, BlueBlocks is offering my listeners 20% off. Just go to BlueBlocks.com backslash Drew and use the code Drew 20, all one word. That's B-L-U-B-L-O-X.com slash D-H-R-U with the code Drew 20. I hope you'll check them out and give them a try. Considering we spend about one-third of our day sleeping, wouldn't it make sense that

Starting point is 00:03:17 we spend just a little bit of time creating the right environment for a deep night's rest. Let's talk bed sheets in that vein because they're a super important part of a good night's rest. I want to tell you what my dream wish list for everything that I'd want in the perfect set of bed sheets. Number one, comfort. Because if they're not comfortable, nothing else matters. Number two, temperature regulation. So much science is coming out about the importance of keeping. your body in the ideal temperature range at night. Not too hot, not too cold. So it's super important

Starting point is 00:03:54 to regulate temperature to get that great night's sleep. Number three, non-toxic. So here's the crazy thing. Sleep is supposed to support our natural detoxification process. Why the heck would we want to expose ourselves to additional toxins at night with the wrong set of bedsheets? So I'm pretty pumped to tell you about a brand that meets all these requirements. and more. Cozy Earth is my go-toe when it comes to the most comfortable temperature-regulating and non-toxic sheets on the market. Their bamboo sheets are the softest sheets I've ever freaking slept in. My wife agrees, by the way, and they are hypoallergenic, which means they're naturally antibacterial plus toxin-free. But don't just take my word for it. Oprah Winfrey

Starting point is 00:04:41 herself has named Cozy Earth on her top list of favorite things three years in a row. And I don't know about you, but I'm team Oprah all the way. Right now, with you being part of my community, you can get 40% off cozy Earth sheet set, which is the highest discount they've ever offered. Just head over to cozyEarth.com and use the code Drew Podcast. That's cozy, C-O-Z-Y, earth.com with the code D-H-R-U podcast, P-O-D-C-A-S-T. If you missed that, it's in the show notes. and if you're on the fence, keep in mind that Cozy Earth's sheet come with a 10-year warranty.

Starting point is 00:05:23 So check out CozyEarth.com with the code Drew Podcast. Welcome to the Drew Perot podcast. Each week we explore the inner workings of the brain and the body with one of the brightest minds in wellness, medicine, and mindset. This week's guest is Dr. Daniel Aymann. Dr. Aman is a physician, double board certified psychiatrist, 12-time New York Times, best selling author and founder of the AIMAN clinics that have 10 locations across the United States. Amon Clinics has one of the world's largest databases of brain spec scans related to behavior

Starting point is 00:05:59 totaling nearly 200,000 scans on patients from over 150 countries. Dr. Aiman's research team has published more than 80 scientific articles on his work and Discover magazine named his research using spec scans to distinguish post-traumatic stress disorder from traumatic brain injury as one of the top 100 stories in science for the year 2015. One of the reasons that we have Dr. Aiman on the podcast today is that he knows exactly from these database of scans and his work over the years of working with patients, thousands of patients from all across the world, he knows exactly what harms the brain and what helps the brain. And if we can get clear on that, especially the things that are harming us today, we can intervene

Starting point is 00:06:49 early and we can protect our brain all the way up to a ripe old age, not to just avoid things like Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative diseases that impact the brain, but also to improve memory, focus, joy, happiness, and reduce incidences of depression today. So this podcast is not just about the future, but it's a lot. It's about improving your brain today. It's a fascinating conversation. I think you're going to enjoy it. Stay tuned.

Starting point is 00:07:20 Dr. Daniel Eamon, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure and an honor to have you here. Well, thank you so much helping me to spread the word of brain health. I'm just, I'm so excited to spend the time with you. On the topic of brain health, I want to start off with something that I've heard you say in a few interviews. And that is, there was this pivotal. moment in your life that you realize that improving your brain health improved every other aspect of your life. And the two were deeply connected. Expand on that a little bit if you could.

Starting point is 00:07:56 You know, I started looking at the brain 30 years ago. And here I am. It's 1991. I'm a double board certified psychiatrist. I was the top student in neuroscience and medical school. and I'm 37 and I don't care at all about my own brain. And then the week before I scanned my mom, we do a study at Amen Clinics called SPACT that looks at blood flow and activity. And she just had the best brain I'd ever seen, which was a reflection of her life,

Starting point is 00:08:35 the most consistently loving, reliable person on the planet that I'd ever met. And then the next week, I scanned myself, and it wasn't good. And it wasn't good because I played football in high school. I had meningitis when I was a young soldier. And I had bad habits. Like I didn't sleep. I thought I was special because I could get by with four hours of sleep at night.

Starting point is 00:09:00 And I was sort of horrified by my scan. And then I realized, well, what if I made it better? And if it was better, would I have better energy? Would I have better focus? Would I have a better memory? And I just became obsessed with brain health. And it changed everything. I just turned 67.

Starting point is 00:09:28 And I'm every bit as energetic and as sharp as I was 30 years ago, probably more so. And my scan has gotten better over the years. And it really became the foundational message for Amen Clinics. You're not stuck with the brain you have. You can make it better. And with a better brain, everything in your life is better. Your relationships are better. Your work is better.

Starting point is 00:09:59 Your money's better. Your health is better because the brain is the organ of decision making. And if you make better decisions, the rest of your life will be. better. And nobody cares about their brain, like me, because they never look at it. But once you see it, you can't unsee it. And I've just loved this journey that we've been on. As a young adult and then a young, you know, a physician, what were some of the beliefs that you had about the brain that you've been spending your entire career to help people realize are maybe not true or not true in the way that they thought they, they thought they?

Starting point is 00:10:40 were true. But yet still, a lot of people who are watching and listening might still have some of those beliefs. So let's talk about them. What were some of the beliefs that you had about the brain that you were told or heard in society or maybe even trained about as a physician early in your career that turned out to not be the full picture and story? Well, that the brain cannot change. In medical school, we were sort of like, you know, if you have brain damage, it's not coming back, that the brain doesn't continue to make new neurons throughout life. And that's just not true. Every day, your hippocampus on the inside of your temporal lobes, super important part of the brain, make 700 new baby stem cells every day. The brain can change in tomorrow. If I sleep

Starting point is 00:11:33 better tonight, my brain is better tomorrow. So getting the right habit. in your life. Another big lesson is mild traumatic brain injury is a major cause of psychiatric illness, and nobody knows it because they don't look at the brain. I grew up playing football, loving football, until I started seeing the scans, including mine, of people who played football, not a good thing for the brain. Another huge lesson was all. psychiatric illnesses, anxiety, depression, PTSD, OCD, ADHD, whatever, are not single or simple

Starting point is 00:12:16 disorders. They all have multiple subtypes. Giving someone the diagnosis of depression is like giving them the diagnosis of chest pain. We just have this thing in psychiatry so backwards that, you know, you made six of these nine symptom criteria as you get a diagnosis, but it doesn't tell you one thing about the underlying biology of the brain. And then, you know, the last thing I would say, just as we're starting out, I have always hated the term mental illness. I remember as a medical student, I thought it shamed people and it was wrong. These are brain health issues that steal people's minds.

Starting point is 00:13:08 But if you don't look, you don't know. And part of our mission is literally to end the term mental illness. And just like call these brain health issues. Get your brain right and your mind will follow. And Mark Hyman is, you know, I really think of Mark as one of my mentors because he wrote a book. I actually bought for all of my doctors called the Ultramine Solution, because I'm like the brain is an organ, like your heart is an organ.

Starting point is 00:13:44 And if your body's not right, your brain's not right. And the Ultramind solution really became the textbook for us on, okay, this is how you get your brain right. I guess you should have called it the ultra brain solution because your brain. create your mind. People don't get it. They sort of think the brain and mind are separate. And no, no, no. Just think of Alzheimer's disease, right? Somebody's brain deteriorates. Their mind deteriorates. You got to think of it, I think of it sort of like hardware and software. Get your brain right. So much easier to program your mind. You know, the book Ultramid Solution and my business partner, Dr. Hyman, you mentioned him and you guys are

Starting point is 00:14:28 contemporaries. You've worked on a lot of really great stuff together, great projects together, one of the core messages inside of there, which you also talk about and have your own way of saying it, is that what you do to your brain, you do to your body. And what you do to your body, you do to your brain. There's that interlink that's there. When did that get super clear for you? And can you remember some of the first science you came across that was showing you that this is not just anecdotes that have been talked about in ancient traditions for a long time? there's actually a interconnected super highway that's going on in the background that's linking these parts of the body together.

Starting point is 00:15:08 So, you know, over this brain journey over the last 30 years, as I would read that omega-3 fatty acids enhance brain function, or if your gut's not right, your brain's not right. But the one study that just brought it home to me is from the University of Pittsburgh. And it basically said, is your weight goes up. The actual physical size and function of your brain goes down, which should just scare the fat off anyone. I actually have published three studies. Last year I published a study on 35,000 scans. one of the largest imaging studies ever done.

Starting point is 00:15:57 And there was basically a linear correlation. As your weight went up, the function in every area of your brain went down. Just horrifying. And then when you understand it, you realize fat cells produce inflammatory adipokines or cytokines, fat cells take healthy testosterone and turn it into unhealthy. Cancer promoting forms of estrogen, fat cells store toxins.

Starting point is 00:16:34 They prematurely age the brain and lower blood flow to the brain. It's like, oh my goodness, I need to work to get my body right. And now with 72% of Americans overweight, 42% of us obese. it's just the biggest brain drain in the history of our country, which is why I wrote my book, Change Your Brain, Change Your Body, because we just have to get so much more serious about the food we put in our body, about our level of exercise. And I come from a family of fat people. My dad used to get bad at me when I would say that, but I have a brother. brother and sister that are like 150 pounds overweight. And I'm like not okay with this because I know

Starting point is 00:17:28 it impacts them cognitively. You know, all your career, which has spent decades, you've been a pioneer for helping people see the hidden forces that are out in the world, things that we've gotten used to that are so much part of our society that are having a dramatic impact on our brain. Hidden Forces are, some of them are mental health related, and a lot of them are physically related, or physical health and how that impacts the brain. I'd love to start off from the physical side. So on the physical side, what are some of the things that you look out there in the landscape and you see where we're at as a society, especially Western societies, where you have these increased rates of depression and other mental mental health conditions, but you also have

Starting point is 00:18:17 these other functions that are happening to the body, which are affecting brain health, like increased obesity. So let's just talk about some of the hidden forces that are out there that are wreaking havoc on our brains and bodies. Well, you know, I call the standard American diet weapons of mass destruction. So ISIS just has nothing on our food industry. the real weapons of mass destruction are highly processed, pesticide sprayed, high glycemic, low fiber, food-like substances stored in plastic containers. I remember driving down the freeway here in Southern California.

Starting point is 00:19:01 And I was going from where I live in Newport Beach to LAX. And as I was driving down the freeway in Long Beach, I looked to the right side of the freeway. and I saw this sandwich billboard for this sandwich called Tower of Torta from AMP, I'm one of the gas stations out here. And I'm just like unbelievably unhealthy and high caloric. And then on the other side of the freeway, I saw a billboard for lose weight with lap band. And it just reminded me how crazy we are in this society. Let's spend a lot of marketing dollars getting you sick, and then we'll do surgery to get you well.

Starting point is 00:19:50 And I'm like, this is insane. And so marketing to make money, or let's take a beautiful woman like Catherine Webb and put her in a bikini and have her eat at Carl's Jr. double cheeseburger. And I'm like, because what's the message, right? As if you eat that sandwich, she'll want you. Well, I can guarantee you if you eat that sandwich, she will not want you. But it's that unconscious assault that is being done on our society making us want things that hurt us.

Starting point is 00:20:33 And it just doesn't stop from. You know, happy meals are really sad meals, right? When you understand what happy meals do to your body, there are all these lies that just sort of circle around us, from social media to the news, you know, if you really want a healthy mind and body, turn off the news, because the news is meant to scare you. It's this great documentary on Netflix, the social dilemma,

Starting point is 00:21:06 which will just horrify you because you realize people are making money off of your early death. And we just have to be more careful as they took PE and music out of schools. That's not only bad for us physically. It's also bad for us emotionally and developmentally. It seems that also part of what you're saying, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that there's a downward cycle that starts to happen because the foods that we're attracted to that are highly marketed, highly processed foods that are designed to hijack our taste buds and keep us wanting more, those are also the foods that damage our brain. And when our brain is damaged,

Starting point is 00:21:52 it's harder and harder to make choices that are in our best interest and society's best interest. Is that a little bit of what I'm hearing? Absolutely true. So I did a large brain imaging study looking at normal. And at the time, I didn't exclude being overweight or obese as an exclusionary criteria. But to be normal for our study is no psychiatric illness, no first degree relative with the psychiatric illness, no drug abuse, head trauma, and you're not taking any medication. well when I realized this connection between weight and the brain I then went and looked at our normal group and then my NFL group which we can talk about same position healthy weight overweight they had

Starting point is 00:22:51 low activity in their frontal lobes the people who are overweight whether is in our normal group or in our NFL group. And why would that be a problem? If you have low activity in the front part of your brain, your prefrontal cortex is called the executive part of the brain because it's sort of like the boss at work. When your executive brain is sleepy, it's sort of like the boss is on vacation.

Starting point is 00:23:21 And you don't make good decisions. And ultimately, the quality of, Every aspect of your life comes down to the decisions you make. And so if because of the messages that we get bombarded with over and over from the billboards, from the signs of the fast food restaurants, it damages your frontal lobes. We're in big trouble as a society because we will end up to be a leaderless society. because individuals won't have good leadership in their own heads. When you look around and you even shared with your own journey, you know, you were headed in this

Starting point is 00:24:07 downward cycle yourself. You weren't taking care of necessarily or paying attention to your brain. Maybe at the time you weren't overweight, as I understand it, you know, even though you come from a family, you mentioned about your family. What were some of the first steps that you took once you saw your brain, that started to create, even in a small way, an upward cycle. So instead of a downward cycle, you're now headed upward, upwards, and you're starting to take control of your brain health. So actually, it was overweight, because I just hadn't thought about it. Now, I would have never let myself get out of control, like my siblings.

Starting point is 00:24:47 I'm way too vain for that. That would have made me really unhappy. But when I sort of made that connection, as your rate goes up, the size of your brain goes down, I lost like 25 pounds. I'm like, no, no, no, this is not good. You know, I think the first thing was this concept I call brain envy. So seeing my mom's perfect brain, mine that wasn't healthy, I wanted her brain. And then I started playing with the term brain envy, right, being a psychiatrist, learned about

Starting point is 00:25:22 Freud and penis envy. And quite frankly, I haven't seen penis envy once in 40 years. What I really want to do is let's get rid of that concept. That wasn't helpful. But let's really get people to want a better brain. So we have a foundation called the Change Your Brain, Change Your Life Foundation. And we have cool t-shirts that on the front says Freud was wrong on the back, it's brain envy. Everybody loves that t-shirt. So the very first step to getting well,

Starting point is 00:25:59 to being optimal, is brain envy. You have to want it. And, you know, the longer you do this, the more simple things become for you, at least for me, brain health is three things.

Starting point is 00:26:15 Brain envy, avoid bad, do good. But I can put, my whole work in six words brain envy got to care about it avoid bad not to know the list do good you just have to know the list and every day um i ask myself this question is this good for my brain or bad for it and if it's bad for it i don't do it why because i love myself doing the right thing is never you should do it, right? I'm not a fan of shaming people. I'm a fan of motivating people based on,

Starting point is 00:26:57 so what do you want? I want energy. I want good decisions. I want longevity. I want love. Is this good for my brain or bad for it? And then you have to know the list. And there lies in our society, like marijuana is innocuous.

Starting point is 00:27:15 That's a lie. I published a study on a thousand marijuana users. Every area of their brain is lower. Now, people are listening to this are not going to like me, and I'm okay with that because I have the data. Alcohol is not a health food. Any alcohol is bad for you. The American Cancer Society came out last year and said any alcohol increases your risk of seven different kinds of cancer. So the idea that alcohol is a health food is just complete crap as far as I'm concerned.

Starting point is 00:27:54 Plus, you know, as a psychiatrist, the biggest problems I have are people drinking and making bad decisions. You know, whether it's criminal or relational or financial or with food, alcohol does not enhance decision making. And that's been hard, right? I don't really like making people unhappy. But ultimately, I do the right things out of love. And I think it's important to speak up when you realize that also you have an opportunity to shift the narrative or at least what's considered part of the discussion, which you do with all the people that are paying attention to you.

Starting point is 00:28:41 And it takes courage. It takes courage to be able to speak up because you present you know, especially in this day and age, but this has probably been there for humanity for a while, we tend to look at things as either black and white. It's either this way or it's this way. And there's not really an in-between. Perfect example that relates to what you're bringing earlier is obesity. You know, you have one group that might be, you know, an extreme sort of body positivity movement that says, anyway, any size, it's all good. And yes, everybody should love themselves. And yes, you should fully feel happy with wherever you are. And there are people that are overweight that

Starting point is 00:29:18 actually want to be healthy. They want to lose some weight. They want to look better. They want to feel better than they have every right to. And you have another side, which, as you mentioned, you're not into shame, but there is a lot of shame from people that are saying, why can't you do it? It's a moral failing. Just lose a little weight. And anybody who's been overweight knows that neither one of those things of the complete picture. Right. So I'd love for you to add your nuance and your perspective, just as one example on the topic of obesity, which we've been talking about and being overweight, how can, how do you look at it in a much more nuanced way than the discussion is often presented? Well, I mean, we're in a war. I wrote a book called the

Starting point is 00:29:56 Brain Warriors Way because I truly believe you're in a war for the health of your brain and your body. Everywhere you go, someone is trying to put bad food down your throat that will kill you early. From those big billboards, I discussed, you and I travel, at least before the pandemic, every time you go to the airport, 90% of the food is terrible for you. It's, it's a war for you. So you have to have sort of a warrior's mindset. You have to be armed, prepared, and aware of those factors that make you more likely to be unhealthy. And then to realize it's never about shame, it's about love, that if you love your life and you want to live a long time, that there are decisions that you have to make early on and then continue. A lot of people don't understand that mental health is the

Starting point is 00:31:01 same discipline as physical health, that these are practices you have to do day in and day out. One of the big things I've learned when it comes to obesity is one treatment will never fix everyone. In fact, it's one of the major principles that underlie my work, as I talked about different types of anxiety and depression. They're different types of obesity. There's impulsive obesity. People have low frontal lobes. They have problems consistently making good decisions because of the impulsivity. There's compulsive overeating. It's like you just can't stop thinking about the brownies,

Starting point is 00:31:45 the donuts, the ice cream, the things that are driving the issue with weight. There's impulsive compulsive overeaters. Often they have alcohol in their family, alcoholism in their family. There's the sad overeaters using it to medicate an underlying depression and the anxious overeaters. So knowing your type is really helpful to getting to the right solutions for you. And all diets are different based on brain type. So for example, our impulsive group, think of them sort of like our ADD people. They do really well on ketogenic diets. They do well on higher protein, lower, simple carbohydrate diets. Put a persistent or a compulsive overeater on that diet, they become mean because they focus more on the things that upset them. So adjusting the diet based on their

Starting point is 00:32:44 brain, I think that's one of the big innovations that we've made based on our clinical experience and our imaging experience. Everybody's a little bit different, a high protein diet, will increase dopamine in your brain and help you focus. A high carbohydrate diet will increase serotonin and help you feel happy. That's why crispy cream works because it makes a lot of people happy, but it's one of the fixes that fail, right? Happy in the short run, really unhappy in the long run. You know, some of those examples that you gave about different forces that are driving people

Starting point is 00:33:26 when it comes to, let's say, overeating, which obviously is one part of the spectrum that's connected to being overweight or obesity. There's other parts that we've talked about in other interviews that you've also mentioned, like environmental toxins and other things and obesity,ins and plastics in our water and other things that all play havoc on the body. But going back to some of those mental motivations, in your most recent book, you have a whole thing where you're talking about the hidden forces that impact us and when it comes to our mental health. And you call some of these forces dragons of the past. And I'd love for

Starting point is 00:34:08 you to just give an overview of where that languaging came from and what it means for the people that are listening here. How would they know if they have dragons of the past that are influencing their behavior and maybe even keeping certain addictions? or patterns, negative patterns, alive, even though if they don't want them. Well, my new book, Your Brain is Always Listening. I wrote about sort of the big forces that your brain is paying attention to. And in the book, they're bad habit dragons, and there's the scheming dragons. These are the societal dragons, like the contact sport dragons, right?

Starting point is 00:34:54 the NFL owns a day of the week. I mean, how horrifying is that? A sport that damages people's lives owns a day of the week. And as I was writing the book, I'm like, the brain's also listening to the past. And for some people, their past is always in front of them. And I came up with the term dragons from the past. Actually, from my friend, Dr. Sharon May, she would use that analogy in dealing with couples and couples counseling.

Starting point is 00:35:32 It's like, what are the big issues from the past, the dragons that breathe fire on your emotional brain? And then she and I collaborated on, you know, it's not just couples. They're tormenting individuals. And we came up with 13 dragons from the past. And the pandemic is just exploding the population of dragons. So the first one is the abandoned invisible or insignificant dragon. And that's my primary dragon. One of seven.

Starting point is 00:36:07 I'm third. I'm the second son in a Lebanese family, which meant you're completely irrelevant. You know, an Lebanese family that owns a grocery business. I mean, my family has 10 stores. My dad ended up being the chairman of the board of a $4 billion company. I mean, he was really smart. But I always knew my brother was going to succeed him. And when I was young, that really made me feel insignificant.

Starting point is 00:36:38 I mean, the huge blessing is I could do anything I want. It gave me total freedom. But when you're young, you don't really see that. And I've really built a life on significance that when I help someone, that makes me happy. It sort of soothes the fire-breathing dragon. There's the inferior flawed dragon. This is the one that's driving the epidemic of teenage suicide, where you're comparing yourself to other people in a negative, way rampant the anxious dragon worse now than ever before in american history um the wounded dragon

Starting point is 00:37:29 so many people were traumatized during the pandemic um the shouldn't shaming dragon i grew up with that one as well being roman catholic it was an altar boy my mom was serious about this i remember when i was six, I told a lie and my mom started to cry and she said, I never thought I would have a son who was going to hell. And my mom was a good mom, but that was a bad moment for her. But so many people are just driven by what they should do rather than what they want to do. And I tell my patience, I said, whenever you go, you should do something. I want you to ask yourself two questions. do you want to do it? Or does it fit your goals to do it?

Starting point is 00:38:24 And if you don't want to and it doesn't fit, you have no business saying should. They find that really helpful. And then there's, there are other ones, but to highlight for the pandemic, the grief and lost dragon, very common. People lost their businesses. They lost relationships.

Starting point is 00:38:44 They lost loved ones. I lost my dad early in the pandemic to COVID. And each of the dragons, there's strategies. So, for example, the death dragon, which has just been exploded during the pandemic with the death numbers. And, you know, six-year-olds are worried about dying because it's just part of the conversation now in a pandemic.

Starting point is 00:39:09 And one of my favorite strategies for the death dragon is write down 10 good things. about dying. And people go, what? And I'm like, I never have to deal with L.A. traffic again. It's horrible. Or I just went to the dentist to get my teeth cleaned. And for like an hour, she's like poking with a sharp object in my gums.

Starting point is 00:39:35 And I'm like, I don't have to have that anymore. I never have to have a computer go down and lose an hour's worth of work. So that strategy, you know, it's the denial of death. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross said this. I love this quote. It is the denial of death that is partially responsible for people living empty, purposeless lives. Because when you think you're going to live forever, you don't take care of the important relationships you need to today. And when I was in college,

Starting point is 00:40:14 I took a death and dying class and had to write my own funeral. And so I always sort of live with the end in mind. Not that, oh, this is all meaningless. But this is really important. And I want to spend today as if it is a gift and that it's special. So beautifully said. We also well intentioned, but, you know, sort of backfiring, we've so hidden death in our modern society compared to,

Starting point is 00:40:44 a lot of other countries where my origin is from in India, somebody passing away and, you know, a body being brought through the streets and, you know, for eventual cremation as a lot of people they ever leave, and everybody seeing it and not hiding from it. And now death is so hidden from our lives that it feels so distant to a lot of young people that many of them have never seen a dead body from a family member or somebody there to understand the preciousness of of life that exists. So another version of our sanitization that came from good intentions, but ended up separating this idea that that death is not very much a part of what it means to be of life. That's so important because actually the fear of death haunts so many people.

Starting point is 00:41:37 And I think they just never really wrestled with it. They're just, just afraid of the darkness. And I love this quote. I was on Sadie Robertson's podcast a couple of weeks ago, and she goes, what's the best piece of advice anyone has ever given you? And in Byron Katie's book, Lovingwood is, I read, argue with reality, welcome to hell. I'm like, okay, so that's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:42:10 So how am I going to deal with it? And one of the things I do is I prepare my estate appropriately so my children and wife won't have to suffer. Too many people because they're in denial, they don't really take care of the stuff that they should do to protect their loved ones. It's just sort of a practical example of how to deal with the death dragon. It's like, oh, so, you know, that's going to happen. Let me take responsibility for what I did during my life and not leave a mess for other people. I want to ask you about brain envy in the context of this conversation. You know, you mentioned your mother, who you looked up to and really feel that she had a brain that, you know, many aspects of it that you desired.

Starting point is 00:43:07 And a lot of people in their family can think of maybe a, maybe a. a grandparent or an uncle or an aunt or somebody that they might feel a very similar way to. Compared to now, comparing those who are living now compared to, let's say, your mother or people from that generation or generations prior, do you think it's fair to say that we have to be more diligent about our brain health if we want to have as healthy of brains? And I'll add in one context to that. You hear a lot, especially as somebody who hosts a podcast and you've dedicated 30 years, has written so many books on this topic, people sometimes will throw up their hands when they hear all

Starting point is 00:43:43 this and say, it just doesn't seem like it was that hard back in the day. And what they're implying is that why do we have to do all this stuff? People were healthy in the past before. So do you think that we have to be more diligent today than our ancestors of the past? Love your thoughts on that. It's a great question. I think the older you get, the more serious you need to be. Just because of what I've seen with what happens with aging on the brain imaging work, we do, you know, every generation long for something in the past, thinking that somehow they were better. But the fact is we really are living longer. I mean, the pandemic will slow that down for sure. but it seems like we are bathed in a toxic soup that we have to be really careful with.

Starting point is 00:44:47 And, you know, as I think about this, I have never seen the number of young men have low testosterone levels than I am now. In the 40 years, I've been a psychiatrist. I've never seen that. And why would that be? And I think it's the plastics. And it's the toxic products that people are putting on their body. So, you know, we talked about the ultramine solution. Ultimately, I created my own mnemonic for integrative medicine and psychiatry.

Starting point is 00:45:28 It's called Bright Minds. If you want to keep your brain healthy or, rescue it. If it's headed for trouble, you have to prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors that steal your mind. Bright Minds is the mnemonic, B is for blood flow, ours retirement and aging, eye is inflammation. The T is toxins. And we live in this toxic soup. So for example, when I was growing up, I never put sunscreen on. And now children are bathed in sunscreen. And it just came out recently that several makers of sunscreen

Starting point is 00:46:12 had carcinogenic ingredients in their products. So isn't that horrifying, right? That I'm protecting you from skin cancer and giving you another kind of cancer. and I think this toxic issue is so important. Now, they had it 40 years ago, 50 years ago. I was, you know, before I learned, I read a book called The Toxin Solution by Joe Pizorno.

Starting point is 00:46:44 Loved it. And I started scanning all of my personal products with the app, Think Dirty. And you probably know that app on a scale of one, 10, how quickly is a product killing you? And I've been shaving with barbersol for 50 years. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 is good, 10 is bad. It's a 9 for 50 years. And so now I shave with something called Kiss My Face and it's a 2. And it's cheaper because it lasts like way longer. But if it was more expensive, I wouldn't care because it's me. I love me. Why would I put

Starting point is 00:47:22 anything toxic on my body if I could help that. And so I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of answering your specific question. I think if I could just interject, I think that, you know, one of the things you're hinting towards is that there are more toxins, both physical toxins and also I would say psychological toxins, just like you were talking about the news earlier. and some aspects of social media, although there's a lot of great aspects of social media too. And because we're more bathing in this soup, we're just more surrounded by things.

Starting point is 00:48:03 So on some level, we have to be a little bit more diligent than people who weren't surrounded by this physical and psychological toxins. Well, and with the psychological toxins, the news, Any bad thing that happens in the world, you know immediately, which makes you think things that are very uncommon are common, and that is stressing all of us out. So on the topic of toxins, you mentioned another toxin earlier that you've shared about before. And it's another environmental toxin that is starting to get a lot more attention.

Starting point is 00:48:43 But for a long time, I would say that a lot of people either completely, completely ignored it or thought that focus on it was lunacy, if that's a word. And that is mold, environmental mold toxins. I want to have you break it down for the folks that are not as familiar. How is it that mold can wreak havoc on the brain? And what are the most common ways that people are being exposed to this toxic level of mold on a regular basis? So it's like, why does this psychiatrist care about mold? I mean, it's an interesting question. I didn't learn anything about it in my residency. Didn't hear anything really about it in medical school. And I started seeing the scans that looked damaged, that look shriveled. And it's sort of, so early on when I started scanning, I was the director of a dual diagnosis unit that's a psychiatric hospital. unit that takes care of drug addicts and alcoholics. And all of their brains look terrible. Like,

Starting point is 00:49:54 the real reason not to use drugs is they damage your brain. But then I would get these people that had damaged brains, just like cocaine or methamphetamine or alcohol problems. And they swore up and down they weren't drinking or using drugs. And then I'm like, huh, well, what else could cause that. And, you know, ultimately it's 10 things that could cause it, and one of them is mold. And I had this patient I just dearly loved. And she's like, I can't think. And my kids, I think all of my kids have ADD, but they didn't have ADD last year. And my one son can't do his homework at home, but when he goes to his friend's house, he can do his homework. And I'm like, did you guys have a flood and they had. And I'm like, oh my God. And we tested her. The home was loaded with mold.

Starting point is 00:50:55 She was loaded with mold. And it just helped me to realize mold is a neurotoxin that can literally damage your brain. And then one of my favorite stories is Dave Asprey based on my work, he got a spec scan, it was moth eaten, and he wasn't drinking or using drugs. It turned out he had mold in his home. And as he remediated the mold, he got better and then went on basically to become a brain warrior and, you know, as the founder and CEO, Bulletproof. No, that's a great story. And we've had Dave on the podcast before, and he's given you a lot of credit for that role that you've played in his, uh, his, his, journey and his health.

Starting point is 00:51:48 And it's just another, I mean, mold has been something. I mean, mold's mentioned as Dr. Anne Shippey, who has been on the podcast before reminding me that she said, mold's been mentioned in the Bible. You know, it's a long history of people understanding that mold has been out there. And we used to actually be very diligent of paying attention to it because you really couldn't, at least with the way that buildings were built. And much like death before, it's easy for mold to just hide, hide and plain sight and be there in our modern houses, which is my understanding of where we're most.

Starting point is 00:52:16 of getting this exposure to extreme amounts of mold. And with severe flooding and weather continuing to be an issue and the way that houses are being built, it's one of those things that if you've been having some of the symptoms that people often talk about, like you mentioned earlier, that are related to mold, it's worth digging into because even people who are in this industry, like my own business partner, Dr. Mark Hyman, you know, he had mold for years and he teaches this stuff and he never thought it would be his place because of how it was built and then finally found out through investigation that it was his place and had to remediate the whole barn that his house was

Starting point is 00:52:56 based in. Now, on a message of hope, because we're talking about these brains being damaged, we obviously know Dave's story a little bit, but tell us about some of the patients that you've worked with. When you see damaged brains, whether they're coming from toxins, mold, which are the ones that really there should be a message of hope for that you know what you can change your brain and you can make progress and you can repair and which are the ones that still you can still improve but are a little bit harder to make headway on well when you damage your frontal lobes it's harder to do the right thing consistently and that's why I love the scans because I can show you the trouble. And if you do what I ask you to do, I can actually show you how much better it can be.

Starting point is 00:53:49 But when you damage the frontal lobes, it's hard for people to follow through. And, you know, I work so hard to get people to sort of buy into the whole brain envy concept. And then day in and day out to make good decisions. And sometimes it's hard for people. But when they have hope, and then we know we're going to do a follow-up scan like three months from now, it lights a fire under them a bit. And, you know, every day your brain's getting better. It's getting worse by your behavior. We can help them feel better quickly. They're more likely to stick with it. you know, obviously, the earlier you get it, the easier it is to fix. But we have so many great stories.

Starting point is 00:54:45 I have this one guy that he thought he had Alzheimer's disease. And his brain looked awful. But when he saw it, he just did everything I asked. And a year later, it was better. I just scanned him again for the third time as three years later. And I have brain envy. He has such a beautiful brain that he and I both. celebrate that your brain can be better 10 years from now than it is now.

Starting point is 00:55:13 How exciting is that? Now, it's going to take 10 years worth of good decisions, but who doesn't want that? Let's talk about the eye, the inflammation piece that's there. It's one of our biggest areas that people search for, especially on YouTube, and have interest on because the word is finally getting out there, kind of like the microbiome. More people are paying attention to it and understanding that when inflammation gets out of control, it can literally burn the body from the inside out and cause all sorts of, or be linked to all sorts of chronic diseases that are there.

Starting point is 00:55:43 So on the inflammation piece, every single one of the toxins that we covered and all the things that you've mentioned previously can contribute to inflammation, head traumas, mold, plastics in the environment, anything that makes our brain or body say, ouch, can be a contributor to inflammation. But let's talk about the part that is the co-pilot to that, which is the, is the co-pilot to that, is cooling off the fire. What do you want people to understand when it comes to the things that they have control over that can significantly make a difference in reducing the out of control inflammation in their body? So, you know, I generally think of inflammation and three big things.

Starting point is 00:56:22 I think of your microbiome, because when it's not healthy, you have more inflammation. I think of gum disease, and I think of low levels of omega-3 fatty acids. I did a study looking at 50 consecutive patient stamen clinics who are not taking fish oil, and 49 of them had suboptimal levels of omega-3 fatty acids. We do the omega-3 index in our clinic developed by Bill Harris as horrified by the low levels of omega-3 fatty acids. Well, how easy is that to fix. Right. Take a high quality omega three every day. Supplement, get more omega-3s in your diet and begin to limit the unhealthy omega-6s from processed food, especially corn and soy. So supplementation, omega-3s in their diet. gum disease is a major cause of inflammation. And quite frankly, I didn't care about my own gums. And still I started reading the research on gum. disease and heart disease, gum disease, and dementia, gum disease and depression.

Starting point is 00:57:41 And I'm like, so ultimately became a flossing fool. And even though one of the good things about dying is I'm not going to have to go get my teeth clean, I go get them clean twice a year, just to make sure I'm on top of it. And then really falling in love with your gut bugs, I call them friends with benefits. They make nerd transmitters. They digest your food. They help detoxify your body. I think the more we can elevate the microbiome

Starting point is 00:58:23 to an everyday discussion, that that's just a really good thing to do. Do I love my gut, And this is why you don't drink alcohol. What is alcohol do to bugs? It kills them. You know, my wife's a nurse. And why does she put alcohol on your skin?

Starting point is 00:58:45 Because it disinfects it. Why during the pandemic, did Jim Beam make hand sanitizer? Because alcohol kills bugs. So you really want to be drinking two, three, four drinks every night. what's that going to do to your microbiome? It's not a good thing. Artificial sweeteners like Splenda have some evidence that can damage your microbiome.

Starting point is 00:59:15 Pesticides, what do pesticides kill bugs? Antibiotics. What antibiotics kill bugs? So I think just being more mindful of the microbiome will help decrease inflammation. And I don't know, Drew, if you're you've noticed this, but it's autoimmune disorders are rampant. And every night, every Thursday night during the early part of the pandemic, I was on the radio in London, just answering questions

Starting point is 00:59:45 from callers who were anxious. And I remember this person called with rheumatoid arthritis. And I was on with an ENT doctor. And the host kept going to the ENT doctor about this person's rheumatoid arthritis. And I'm like, hello, scyatrice are physicians, why you have rheumatoid arthritis. That is what you have. It's not why you have it. And if you don't know why, you really can't treat it. And I get really irritated because I have so many patients come in, they have chagrin's or they have rheumatoid arthritis or something else. It's an autoimmune disorder, which just basically means you pissed off your body and it's now friendly fire, it's attacking itself. And they're not thinking about the simple things. Like, you know, maybe we should stop gluten and dairy, corn and soy,

Starting point is 01:00:44 and artificial dyes and sweeteners and just see what happens. And I have all of my patients who have autoimmune disorders keeping journals on, okay, which foods make me unhappy and which foods make me happy. And it's so simple. Simple. And when you invest in your body and you also invest on identifying those dragons of the mind, a lot easier to keep your focus on those things and have longevity because people get derailed. When you put people on a plan or when you see people pick up your book and actually read it, what would you say it would be the most common reasons that you find, even if you talk about them and sort of of how people know in the context of the conversation, what are the common reasons that people get

Starting point is 01:01:35 derailed that you see from following through with a programmer plan? They're not really clear on the why of what they're doing. Because I find if you don't really know why you won't do what. And, you know, people go, so what do you think is one of the secrets to your longevity? and success. And I have an exercise I do for my patients, but I always do it for myself called the one page miracle. It's on one piece of paper. I write down what I want, my relationships, my work, my money, my physical, emotional, and spiritual health. What do I want? And so I'm like always crystal clear. And I think people should run their lives like really great CEOs.

Starting point is 01:02:30 run businesses. And it starts with, so what's your mission? And how are you going to get there? And what do we have to do day in and day out to do that? And it's that level of clarity that prevents people from getting off track. So if I know, for example, I want to have a kind, caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship with my wife, I inhibit a lot of the stupid things I think. I don't let them out of my mouth because it won't get me what I want. If I know I want to live until I'm 100 with my brain intact, that if I want to live with energy and clarity and good decision-making, like I love my four children. I never want to have to live with them. I don't want them dressing me, changing my diaper, feeding. No, I want to be independent.

Starting point is 01:03:39 And if I know that, I'm going to be making better decisions. And I'm going to stick with it. And too often people start because they're like, okay, my jeans are too tight or I hurt. But they don't really have the complete picture in their head of why they're here and how they want to live the rest of their life. And what you want changes in different age ranges that you're in. What's something that you want now being a young 67 that is new for you that's a priority in your life, either based on your environment or based on the health goals. that you have today. Something that you want now that maybe you didn't have at the highest level of priority, not that it wasn't a priority, but it wasn't at the highest level of priority in the past. Well, I love grandbabies as opposed to wanting babies. I don't want babies anymore.

Starting point is 01:04:42 Tan and I, last year, ended up adopting our two nieces who are now 11 and 16. and they're the last babies for us. We love them, adore them. But, you know, I sort of want mostly the same things, energy, meaning and making a difference. You know, I guess I could retire, but I just to do what? I love what I do so much. Like just having this conversation with you,

Starting point is 01:05:16 just makes me happy to learn and to give that to other people. You know, at my age, you begin to think about how do I get this to live beyond me? And so I love training other doctors to do what we do. One of our big goals, and it's also one of the reasons why I want to live a long time is I'm going to change how psychiatric medicine is practiced. I think psychiatry has completely lost its way. And, you know, when I trained, we were sort of primary care doctors for the mind. You know, we'd see our patients for an hour or two or sometimes three or four hours a week.

Starting point is 01:06:01 We'd really get to be involved in their lives. And now psychiatrists have become prescribers. You know, you go to somebody else for the therapy and we'll do your medication. It's complete nonsense, as far as I'm concerned. Plus, most psychiatrists never look at the brain. So, I mean, we really haven't talked much about that. But psychiatrists are the only medical specialists that virtually never look at the organ they treat.

Starting point is 01:06:32 And for 30 years, I've been looking in sort of like the wolf crying in the wilderness, you know, scan your brains. Scan the brains of your patients. because if you don't look, you don't know. And, you know, I've had that goal to change my profession. And just in May, the Canadian Association of Nuclear Medicine came out with procedure guidelines for spec as if I wrote them. In fact, of the 10 authors for the guidelines,

Starting point is 01:07:03 five of them had been my students. And that made me super happy. But, you know, if you're going to change a medical specialty, it's going to take a long time and a lot of effort. So training other doctors to do what we do is a high priority for me. I want to jump back over to the practicalities on things. And I think there's a lot of people that are asking this question when you were chatting about some of the topics earlier that I'm going to bring back on the topic of alcohol.

Starting point is 01:07:31 So is it that you don't drink at all? And then with your patients, are you telling them in addition to your thoughts that, look, I'm recommending not drinking at all based on everything that I know and put together, is there another part of you that says, okay, great, if people are going to drink, here is the max limit or here is the better options that are there. So just a clarifying point from your perspective. So I don't drink at all. I don't ever like not being mentally clear. And could I interject one second just to just to clarify that? Has that always been the case or did that change at some point in time of your life?

Starting point is 01:08:13 Yeah, I got drunk when I was 16 and acted badly and felt badly for a couple of days. Tried it again when I was 21. And I'm just like, I don't get it. I just never really got it. And then when I saw the scans of my alcoholics, I'm like, well, that's horrifying. line. And then I just sort of followed the research. And my biggest blog last year was called I Told You So. And I started the blog with when I was dating my wife, she told me I will never tell you I told you so. And she lied. It's like her favorite thing to say. And for 30 years, I've been saying

Starting point is 01:09:06 alcohol is not in your best interest. You know, you can imagine. Is this. psychiatrist. I see a lot of couples with domestic violence and people who make bad decisions and alcohols involved in a very high percentage of cases. But last year, the American Cancer Society came out against any alcohol. Imagine that, a political body like that. And they said, any alcohol is associated with an increased risk of seven different kinds of cancer. And so, if any alcohol shrinks your brain, study from Spain recently, destroys the white matter in your brain, I published a study showing it prematurely ages your brain and it's associated with cancer. Chemotherapy is not good for your brain.

Starting point is 01:10:01 If you're sort of a drinker and your brain is super healthy, what am I going to say? Most of the people come to me, their brains are not. healthy and I'm like, oh, well, we need to rehabilitate your brain. And during this time, until your brain is really healthy, I would prefer you not to drink. If you're going to drink, you know, maybe two glasses a week would be sort of okay. So that's generally what I tell my patients. And I'm not a big drinker. I had very sort of liberal sort of parents growing up that, you know, said, here's a reason why we don't drink.

Starting point is 01:10:47 But, you know, they understood that, you know, the more you try to control kids, the more that sometimes there's backlash, you know, at least, you know, when it comes to alcohol and the American approach versus like, let's say, like the European approach. So I never really had a draw towards it. I drank a little bit, you know, like I had some, like I think I had like a beer once in in high school, didn't even finish it. And in college a little bit, had like a couple, you know, cocktails and things. But it was mostly as an excuse of like, I'm out dancing.

Starting point is 01:11:19 I'm hanging out with my friends. We're all having fun together. And so I never really got into it. But I know that people who, you know, and later on in life, I got a little bit into wine more as just an appreciation. I actually prefer to taste it rather than drink it. I'll take a little sip and I have no problem to spitting it out because I don't really enjoy that aspect as much as I just do the taste and, you know, developing that palette. So when you say a cup of glasses a week, because I know people are thinking about this distinction, are you steering them towards certain alcohols versus other alcohols?

Starting point is 01:11:50 Now, they're all equally problematic for you. So, and it's very important from a clinical standpoint to actually get a really good history of how much they're really drinking because they'll say, all I only have two or three, but you realize they're two or three big glasses. So they actually might be considered eight or ten. So I think history matters. I was in the military and spent three years in Germany. And they have these huge beersteins. So whenever someone says, oh, I only have three glasses, my next question is always, how big is the glass? It's a good question. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:38 And ultimately, it's about love. And I think a lot about teenagers. I'm also a child psychiatrist. And we developed a high school curriculum called Brain Thrive by 25, where, and it's in all 50 states and seven different countries where we teach kids to fall in love. with their brains. And invariably, during, I think it's week six, it's like what to avoid. And, you know, like marijuana and alcohol and not sleeping, bad food. And invariably, it's a boy. And it sort of frustrates me that it's always a boy that raises his hand and says, how can you have any fun? And then we play a game with the kids called Who Has More Fun?

Starting point is 01:13:38 The kid with the good brain or the kid with the bad brain? Who gets the girl and gets to keep her because he doesn't act like an ass? The kid with the good brain or the kid with the bad brain? Who gets into the college they want to get into? Who has the most meaning and purpose throughout their life, which is truly associated with happiness? The kid with the good brain or the kid with the bad brain. And we had an independent group study, Brain Thrive by 25, decreases drug, alcohol, and tobacco use,

Starting point is 01:14:10 decreases depression, and improve self-esteem. It's not effective to say you shouldn't do this. It's really effective to get them to fall in love with their brain and then to take care of it. And I find youngsters today, teenagers and kids in their early 20s are very very, very interested in their health. And if they know why, they're more likely to do what is helpful for them. As always, education and true cost-benefit analysis

Starting point is 01:14:48 is the best way to empower people because you're not shitting anybody. You're just saying, hey, this is action, reaction. You go down this route, take this action, this is the reaction. Go down this route, you take this action, this is the reaction. And I find that I don't have kids yet of my own.

Starting point is 01:15:06 I look forward to it in the future. But just remembering being a kid, I always felt a lot more trust with adults who would speak to me that way versus, you know, superstitions or whatever else were the pressures that were being used to have you form in a matter that matches their societal beliefs.

Starting point is 01:15:26 On the topic of teens and kids, you mentioned something earlier. You said one of the dragons is out there is comparison. And you said, you know, a lot of kids these days are suffering with it. And I think a lot of adults are also suffering with it. For the dragon of comparison, you know, each of the dragons that you've listed out, they all have different interventions or things that you can look at. What do you think about when it comes to comparison, which is something that so many people,

Starting point is 01:15:54 including teens, are dealing with today as a dragon in their life that's running the show and how they can get beyond that dragon? Well, to know it's a trap and that the more you do it, the worse you're going to feel. So notice when you're doing it. And I remember during the Olympics, because I've been blessed.

Starting point is 01:16:18 I've seen a number of Olympic athletes. And most of them have been pretty unhappy. because they live with the inferior flawed dragon, even if they're the best in the world. I mean, we saw this play out recently with Naomi Osaka that she just started the US Open and she came out. She said, I always live with the thought that I am not enough, right? So one of the best in the world.

Starting point is 01:16:51 And what I wrote was it's very important not to strive to be the best. Because if you strive to be the best, you have to put other people down. You have to be better than other people. And that's a prescription for unhappiness. If you strive to be your best, well, you can take. people along with you, you can elevate people with you. And that's a prescription for happiness. And I learned this when I was a college student wanting to go to medical school. And, you know, that could be like a doggie dog world where, you know, I have to sort of poison someone else's

Starting point is 01:17:41 experiment so they won't get the good grade and I'll get a better grade. And I, because of my religious background. I just thought that was awful. And I'm like, no, no, I want to do well, but I'm going to help you do well too. So I would always sort of organize study groups where, you know, and I always did really well in college, but it's like, how can I help you be better? Because every time I helped you be better, I was better, right? Because it just reinforced what I learned. And so I love collaborative competition rather than I have to be better than you. And it's, it's that mindset that will just help you soar if you help other people like, you know, Mark and I been hugely supportive of each other's work over the years. And, you know, I mean, I always want my

Starting point is 01:18:43 shows on public television to be best. But I want his to be best too. And if we both do great, well, that makes us happy. You know, how can I support him? And he's like, well, how can I support Daniel? And that's the best way to be because you're elevating everybody. You know, a big part of the work around the mindset piece that you've shared is a little bit of what you call psychological distancing, having a little bit of space between your thoughts and who you really are. And a lot of people have still not made that connection. Some people think, especially in the, I guess what it's sometimes called to or referred to as sort of toxic positivity culture or something like that, that you can get rid of these negative thought patterns

Starting point is 01:19:37 completely or you can get rid of this, this ego, some people call it. But, you know, really here, you're saying, you know, this thing is, this thing is there. It's not you, but it's there. And sometimes we just need to put it back in check. Now, you're a human being. Are there things that you notice in your body? Or are there behaviors or patterns that are a reminder for you that let me focus on that and put it back in its cage? So I like the term toxic positivity, but you have to be careful with it. It's important for people to know some anxiety is good. Some anxiety is absolutely important.

Starting point is 01:20:26 The don't worry, be happy people die the earliest from accidents or preventable illnesses. So, for example, Bobby McFerrin's phone, don't worry, be happy. is it's just a lie. You need to have some anxiety. And we sort of talked about that as your rate goes up, the size of your brain goes down. That should scare the fat off anybody. But at the same time,

Starting point is 01:20:57 if your brain just goes to the negative, you're going to be sad. You're going to be anxious. You're going to be stressed. And so there's this balance of having enough anxiety that you do the right thing, but you're also pointing your brain in a positive direction. And the people who thrive during the pandemic,

Starting point is 01:21:26 I call it TLC, that they see it as temporary. It's going to end at some point. It's local. and yes, it's a global pandemic, but how does it impact you in your house, in your neighborhood? And the sea is control. What can I do? And I must have prayed the serenity prayer like 10,000 times

Starting point is 01:21:56 in the last 20 months. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And if you just live with that message, you're going to be so much happier. If you stay in what you can control and let go of what you cannot control.

Starting point is 01:22:23 It's another reminder why this work is so important because we may not be able to control and most likely we can't control all the different events that are happening in the world, but we can change ourselves. we can start by changing our brain, we can start by changing our inputs, we can start by changing what we pay attention to. And that ultimately is the only way that really any true lasting change happens in society is when we focus on ourselves and then take that as an example

Starting point is 01:22:51 to other people in the world. It's absolutely correct. And, you know, people heard it said you want to be the change that you want to see in the world. What I learned when Mark and I did the Daniel plan together with Pastor Warren is if you don't live the message, you suck as a messenger. That's the best way to help other people change. It's change yourself. You know, if you live it day in and day out, that's how you'll give it away. Dr. Eamon, let's talk about a little bit of your world, which is quite extensive.

Starting point is 01:23:34 You mentioned your podcast earlier as a natural place for people to continue this conversation that we've had here. Is there a particular podcast that you might recommend that we can link to that would be a great next step for people who want to continue going down the Dr. Aman journey? Oh, I think if you link to one of the earlier Brain Warriors Way podcasts, that would be great. Because it really talks about the message that you're in a war for the health of your brain. And if you become a warrior, your whole life and the lives of those you love will be better. People can also follow us on Instagram. We just went over 500,000 followers yesterday. So we're all pretty happy about that.

Starting point is 01:24:27 TikTok of all places has been really fun for us and Facebook. And people can go to Amenclinics.com and learn about our clinical services. Well, a couple more points that I want to make there. And one question about the clinic and some of your hopes with that. The book is behind you. Your brain is always listening. We also have that as one of the first links that there. what is the highest hope that you have for the message inside of this book?

Starting point is 01:24:54 For you to get connected to the inputs coming into your brain and then realizing you can control them. So you can actually tame the hidden dragons that control your happiness habits and hang-ups. It's really to put you in control of your destiny not things that happened in the past. One of the best parts that I love about this book, and you and your wife are very,

Starting point is 01:25:27 you're both educators, your content overlaps, not only just in terms of message, but you often talk about each other in the content and talk about your relationship, which is a beautiful thing. I thought so many of the patterns that are being identified and the dragons that are being identified in the book

Starting point is 01:25:43 are a great talking place for people who are in relation, relationships to, much like we talk about love languages, it's almost like if you also understand the prominent and dominant dragons that your partner is working against and facing, that there's a deeper appreciation and also there's a more gentleness in sort of navigating those dragons that might be sensitivities to somebody's past. Have you found that when couples explore your book and projects together? I love that part of this book. And people can actually find out their dragons.

Starting point is 01:26:23 There's a free questionnaire called knowyour dragons.com. And the average number is six. And so if you know your partner may have been hurt growing up and ends up with the judgmental dragon, you won't take it so seriously when that issue may come up in your life. Or if they have the wounded dragon or the inferior and flawed dragon, you'll be more sensitive to their issues. And I find it really just increases empathy, both for yourself and for the people you interact with.

Starting point is 01:27:02 Is there a practical example that you can mention from your own relationship, a dragon that you know, you got clear on, whether it was writing on, you know, this book or just through conversations or just over the years with your wife, that gave you a deeper sense of empathy of where she was coming from. Yes. My favorite of all the dragons is the ancestral dragon, where the issues you have aren't your issues, that they come from another generation. And before the pandemic, my wife, who's a security freak, had a pandemic room. And I'm like, why do you have a pandemic room. We live in Newport Beach. When is the store ever going to be out of toilet paper? And actually, it wasn't hers that her grandmother grew up in what is now Lebanon during World War I

Starting point is 01:28:01 and the Great Famine. And her grandmother had been lost in the mountains for three days. So her grandmother lived with deprivation and trauma. And whatever happens to you actually gets written into your genetic code. And we pass down those strengths, but also those stresses, to future generations. And, you know, just knowing that the ancestral dragon was, you know, sort of running around her genetic psyche, just help me go early in the pandemic when she was so anxious, even though she was prepared, she was anxious. Okay. So rather than tell her she's silly, what is it I can do to support her so that I can help calm

Starting point is 01:28:57 the ancestral dragon in her head? That was a great answer. And I think even if you don't know what your partners, dragons are. You may not even know what your own dragons are. I mean, that's why a good reason to take the quiz, which we have a link to, you can imagine how it could transform your relationship with your child, with your parent, with your sibling, with your partner, when you understand what is it that makes them who they are, which part of that is going to be how the dragons shape us. So I love that analogy, and I love that example. Anytime people have more access to things, anytime we lean into

Starting point is 01:29:37 precision medicine, anytime we lean into personalized medicine. I always remember the analogy of a lot of my family are doctors and cousins and brother-in-laws and uncles and aunts. And I would always hear the example and the story of, you know, in the 50s, it was considered we left it up to the doctor to decide whether or not they would tell the patient whether or not they had cancer. So if you found out that your patient had cancer, it was up to the doctor. And often it was discouraged because there was this fear that if people knew that they had cancer, that they would be more likely to commit suicide, that they'd be lost in despair, that they would be completely depressed.

Starting point is 01:30:16 So a lot of doctors would actually not tell the patient right away or maybe hold it off or talk to family members or maybe not say anything at all. This is pretty well documented. And you just can think about how ridiculous that sounds. And so in the instance of a brain scan or genetic information, when you understand that you can actually do something about it and you can alter the future and influence it through our lifestyle, then you definitely want to know because not only is you're right,

Starting point is 01:30:43 but it actually can lead to a healthier and happier you. So thanks for being an example in that, Dr. Amen, and thank you for coming on the podcast to share your wisdom and knowledge. Much appreciated. I respect you. I've always looked up to you, and I can't wait to see this book out there in the world, again, changing the conversation as you always have done in the past.

Dhru Purohit Show - #239: Avoid These Things If You Want a Healthier Brain with Dr. Daniel Amen

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