Dhru Purohit Show - 70% of Homes In the U.S. Have Mold. Here's How to Protect Your Health and Your Home from Toxic Mold

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

This episode is brought to you by Pique Life and Branch Basics. Air quality and mold are major factors in overall health and wellness. In fact, 70% of homes in the United States contain at least one species of mold. Exposure can trigger chronic inflammation, fatigue, and brain fog, but with the right knowledge, you can take proactive steps to protect your health. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, we’re revisiting one of our most talked-about moments with Michael Rubino to explore how and why mold is so prevalent in most homes and how it can worsen autoimmune disease. Michael breaks down the most common sources of mold people encounter and why the problem is getting worse. He also highlights the four most toxic types of mold and explains how their presence in the body can cause damage through self-preservation mechanisms. Finally, Michael explains why some people are more susceptible to the effects of mold than others. Michael Rubino is the Founder of HomeCleanse, President of the Change the Air Foundation, and host of the Never Been Sicker podcast. A council-certified Mold Remediator with a background in construction, he focuses on helping immunocompromised individuals recover from mold exposure. In this episode, Dhru and Michael dive into: Why mold is the number one toxin found in homes (1:56) The most common sources of mold people encounter (6:11) Why the mold problem is getting worse (7:28) Memorable client stories (13:22) Types of mold to watch out for (18:32) The four most toxic molds (20:08) How mold damages the body through self-preservation mechanisms (24:01) Why some people are more affected by mold than others (26:08) Final thoughts (28:03) Also mentioned: Full episode with Michael Rubino This episode is brought to you by Pique Life and Branch Basics. Right now, Pique Life is offering 20% off their Sun Goddess Matcha. Plus, you’ll get a free beaker and frother when you go to piquelife.com/dhru. Right now, Branch Basics is offering 15% off the Premium Starter Kit; just go to branchbasics.com and use code DHRU. Make 2025 your cleanest, healthiest year yet with Branch Basics! Sign up for Dhru’s Try This Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi everyone, Drew Prode here. Air quality is something I talk about a lot because there's all sorts of implications on our health and our brain and our body when it isn't right. And I've seen firsthand how environmental toxins and mold can wreak havoc on the body. And I've had many friends firsthand go through this process

where undetected mold wreaked havoc on their health. And the worst part about it is they had no clue that it was driving things like chronic inflammation, brain fog, fatigue, worsening autoimmune or neurodegenerative symptoms. And I don't share this to fearmonger. And believe me, there's a lot of fearmongering in this space, so make sure you approach it in a very delicate matter. But over 70% of homes in the United States

have at least one species of mold present. And remember, not all species of mold are bad or wreak havoc on your body. It's important to do your research and really look into which species could be connected to unexplained symptoms that might be out there. But the reality is, separate from that, experts say that the number is going up when it comes to mold and homes.

can see this anecdotally all over the place and in media reports as well. But there is good news. Not all mold is created equal. And there's many things you can do to protect your home and health from mold. So in today's episode, I'm sharing a little segment for my conversation with Michael Rubino where we get into the realities of mold and the ways that we can keep it from negatively affecting our health and the health of our loved ones. Now, a little bit about Michael Rubino. He's the founder of Home Cleanse and the president of the Change the Air Foundation and the host of never been sicker podcast. He's got a background in construction and remediation, and he's huge on pointing out the flaws in the industry approach to mold remediation, leading him to establish his company called

Home Cleanse. So let's listen into my conversation with Michael Rubino and learn a thing or two about the truth about mold toxicity. Today, we're talking about the number one hidden toxin that's lurking in people's homes. In fact, a mind-blowing fact that I learned from you is that over 70% of homes in North America have this toxin, which is mold. We've done a couple episodes on it. You're going to take it a lot deeper. Tell us why mold is so toxic to the body. And then let's go into why is it the number one toxin in the home that people are not talking about, but should be talking about. I know, first of all, that is sadly crazy and true. It's sad to hear. The recent studies we're seeing out of EPA and HUD show this prevalence increasing,

which is pretty alarming, especially when you hear the rest of what I'm about to tell you. Let's start by saying what are the top three things, right? Pick an autoimmune disease. I mean, anyone, just Google any of them. You will find a correlation between that disease and mold. I don't know if it causes or exacerbates. Right. We don't have the data on that. We don't have the data on that.

We're not studying it on humans, unfortunately. But the reality of the situation is, every single. single person in any autoimmune disease category becomes sensitive to mold. And when you test their body, test their house, you're finding this correlation of mold going on inside their home, going on inside their body. So mold could be one of the reasons, could, we don't know, that encourage their body to maybe develop an autoimmune disease. And if that's uncertain, more research needs to be done, it definitely is making their autoimmune disease worse. Totally. I mean, even if it's not causing it, it's definitely making it worse. I mean, if you talk to anybody who,

in a moldy environment that has this autoimmune disease, they are really feeling it. They're having extreme flare-ups, which is affecting their quality of life. The second thing that we see is chronic inflammation. I mean, there's an entire disease called chronic inflammatory response syndrome, which was born out of these waterborne mold illnesses.

So that's another big thing that people see because pretty much everyone on planet Earth right now is fighting some level of inflammation. And last but not least, we're dealing with brain fog, chronic fatigue, and these neurodegenerative diseases. Dr. Dale Bredesen does a great job talking about inhalational Alzheimer's or the early onset of dementia, which all equates to having these mold toxins inside your environment. And the craziest part about this is when you think mold, you think like, okay, I'm walking

into this building and it's going to smell and it's going to be dark and dreary and maybe there's ghosts or something. But when you walk into these buildings, they're clean. I mean, a lot of my client's homes are sparkling clean. The place should be in a magazine. You would never suspect that there's mold, but it's behind the walls. It's in the HVAC systems.

It's in places you would never even know. It's scary, and the thing is that nobody is immune. Whether you have living in an apartment complex that you might be renting, you know, a studio apartment, whether you live and you bought your first home, like a mutual friend of ours, Christina Baer, who's been on this podcast, I told her story, or whether you are a celebrity,

that has a $20 million home, a lot of these individuals have had experiences with mold. In fact, I just saw something shared on social media, which we'll put up here on the side that people can go check out and we'll link to in the show notes. Priyanka and Joe Jonas, right? Yeah, the Jonas brothers, whichever one she's with, I'm not in the celebrity news.

They are dealing with a lawsuit with their home here in Los Angeles, not too far away because their own home had toxic mold and from what I could gather from what was being written about is that they were experiencing symptoms and their newborn baby as well too. So nobody is immune. And today, I'd love to talk about the intention of this podcast. You know, we brought you on because you know not only a ton about the space. We're going to talk about your background and how you got into it. But more importantly, you're going to share with us what we can do to protect ourselves and things that we should be aware of so that mold doesn't even develop in the first place.

Yeah. If it does develop and somebody who's listening today is dealing with it, you're also going to talk about what steps and action items we can take to move forward from there. But let's start at the beginning. What is the source of all this mold that everybody is dealing with? So it's just water damage. I mean, that is the source. So when you're talking about water damage, a lot of people think like, oh, I had a leak or

something like that. And of course, yes, that's part of it. But you're also going to have things like high humidity, depending on what part of the country or what part of the world that you live in. You might also have things like moisture intrusion, which is not really the same thing as a leak because it might be so subtle that you don't actually see it. And this could be coming in from outside. It could be coming in from up underneath the floor into the slab. And it could just be coming in from outside because your house is under negative pressure and you're actually pulling in moisture from outside to inside. So there's many different culprits.

You have to look at it from this perspective of how do I control the moisture? Because if I can control the moisture, then I won't have a mold problem. But what's been going on that it seems to be exploding the amount of people that are reporting or talking about the fact that their home might have mold like Christina, who came on our podcast and is now defending families who themselves have had toxic mold and have had to go and sue builders or HVAC individuals? Is the problem getting worse? How long has this whole history of mold toxicity been around?

Yeah, so the problem is getting worse. So we have the data to prove it. So the EPA and HUD did a joint study together called the American Healthy Home Survey. They did one, which is the American Healthy Home Survey 1, and that was in 2006, and they did the American Healthy Home Survey 2 in 2019. So a 13-year gap. Almost every single mold species, with the exception of one, had went up significantly in prevalence,

which means that we're finding it more and more common inside of our homes. And I have tons of different theories as to why, one of them being the fact that we build these tighter homes now. They're more energy efficient, they're insulated, so they're the perfect breeding ground for mold to grow. Yeah, because there's a lot of dark areas that are not monitored. You have no idea what's going on behind the wall

because it's covered in spray foam, for example. The ventilation is very poor. A lot of these homes have been built with hardly any ventilation. And so a lack of ventilation is going to allow particles to accumulate in our environment because there's no dilution that's occurring, which means that not only is it impacting us with every breath that we take about 20,000 times a day, but it's also this accumulation of particles that the second there's moisture, there's so much of it there are all ready to start to grow. It's like living in a giant petri dish.

On top of that, we have been building homes, maintaining homes, restoring homes improperly for many, many years. And it's been getting worse, of course, with the building and the cheaper building products we have today versus 20, 30 years ago. All of these compounding issues are really making this problem much more prevalent. You know, even though it's much more prevalent, another thing that I learned from you is that we've been battling mold as, you know, homo sapiens. since pretty much as long as written history is there. In fact, I learned from you that there's actually a protocol in the Bible that is related to mold. Can you talk about that? Have you noticed that everyone is obsessed with Mata right now?

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keeping my home simple and clean, and I know exactly what's in it. It's safe for babies, pets, and anyone who wants to reduce toxic exposure. No synthetic fragrances, no dyes, no toxins, just plant and mineral-based ingredients that actually work. So while you reset your health routine this season, don't overlook this simple swap. Head over to branch basics.com to shop the premium starter kit and get 15% off with the code D-H-R-U at checkout. That's code D-H-R-U, Drew, that's me at checkout at branchbasics.com to start fresh this season with products that are safe, simple, and effective. Yeah, so in Leviticus, there's literally a mold

protocol in there. What they would do is they would scrub the stones clean, because they built houses out of stones primarily back then, and they would have the priest bless it, okay? If it came back, they would actually tear down the entire house and take these tainted stones like a mile outside the village and dump them because they didn't want that fungus spreading across the entire village. So they knew that this was a problem even thousands of years ago. But, you know, history repeats itself and we tend to forget things, don't we? We do, we do. Talk to us about some of, or maybe there's a case study or some individual that contacted you

and was concerned about them having mold. you know, what symptoms were they dealing with? You know, just as just an example or a story that might come to mind. I know you've worked with a lot of celebrity clients as well. So is there somebody there that's given you permission to talk about their story? Yeah, I have tons. I'm going to talk about Shannon first. There's a woman named Shannon lived in Florida.

This is one of the most profound stories for me, and probably it will never lose my memory because Shannon was really, really sick. I mean, for three years, her health was declining. she was a nurse practitioner, literally practicing medicine. And she went from that to bedbound 95% of the time. She actually was so sick. She was diagnosed with pots. She had a G.J feeding tube installed into her lower intestine, literally to give her the nutrients

to keep her a lot. She was depressed. I mean, who wouldn't be depressed that severe of a health decline that fast? She couldn't do things for her kids or her husband. I mean, it's to go from happy and healthy to that. is very difficult. Within seven days of moving out of her house, she literally rented an RV,

put it on her property to move into the RV, weird chair and all, to be able to remediate her house because we saw really high levels of mold and bacteria there. Within seven days of her moving into this RV, the GJ feeding tube is gone and she's walking again. I mean, no joke. It's one of the most profound stories

that I've ever encountered of seeing that remarkable transformation, that fast. It was Shannon's story really that I think left a real deep mark on me of how important this is because a lot of people, they deal with chronic symptoms or acute symptoms. It's always life-changing, but it never feels so profound as when I saw it with Shannon. And I think that's the story we start with. And then, of course, Christina Perry, Christina Perry, famous singer, songwriter. I mean, she was dealing with infertility issues, blood clotting disorders. We finally fixed her house.

She had a happy, healthy baby, which is remarkable to see. You have Gwyneth Paltrow who's dealing with perpetual long COVID, gets COVID, and it just never goes away. We find all kinds of air quality issues at her place, fix up her place. She says in a podcast to me that, you know, she feels better than she felt in her 20s. You know, she's now in her 50s. you start to see these things transform people's lives. You can't unsee that, you know?

And this has repeated itself thousands of times for me. From when I first started up in New York right after Hurricane Sandy, seeing my first client was an elderly woman who reminded me of my own grandmother, who all of a sudden was having issues walking. Joint pain was completely severe. She never had joint pain or walking issues. And sure, we can chalk that up and say, it's because she was getting older, right? I feel like as a society, we tend to normalize that. You know, we're getting older.

This is the way we're supposed to feel. No, it's not. That's hogwash. She shouldn't have felt that way. And as a matter of fact, after we actually fixed her place up, she didn't have this joint pain again. And she was walking without the walker. So these are the types of things that I see in people that makes me realize more people need to know about this. Because if they did, I don't care what anybody's going through, they're probably going through something. And if they fix their air quality and it made even the smallest difference for them, I think that's important. You know, part of our podcast mission is to sound alarm when it comes to all different areas that might be environmental toxins that we're dealing with. Mold is one of them. And both inform people about the truth,

which sometimes can be scary. It's scary to think that 70% of buildings in homes are dealing with some form of mold. But then we also balance that with the education that's there, which is the nuances. And so part of the nuances that I want to share is that while today's interview can be scary for some people, the component that I think is important, and I'd love you to expand on it, is that every home is dealing with mold in some sort of way. Now, within that, there are molds, which you're going to talk about, and you've actually helped develop some testing to help people figure this out, there's types of molds that are really

damaging to our health. And there's other ones that are quote unquote sort of normal, right? That they're just in our environment. They're not known at least right now to be as damaging to our health. And even somebody who's very meticulous about air quality, like myself, I have filters in every room, I keep the windows open often, et cetera. I write about this stuff. I interview experts, you're still generally going to have some level of mold in the home. The issue becomes, and you correct me, if anything I said here is incorrect, the issue becomes when you're dealing with some hidden symptoms. You may not be getting better for something that you've gotten treatment for. You feel like every time you come back to your home, especially after a vacation, you feel

off or you don't feel as well, which was also happening to Christina again, and she shared in her story, and then you start to pull in these threads and maybe do some testing, and you see that you have some of the worst strains that are there. That's when we know, and the data is very clear that something has to be done. Would you want to add or edit anything that I shared there? No, I think you did a great job, by the way. You could be a mold expert too very soon here. You want to be careful about the molds that produce toxins. That's called toxicogenic. I think that really, you know, too much of anything will kill you on this planet. You know, there's thousands of different analogies we can make on that. The reality of it is, when you have a more toxic mold,

you want to make sure that those levels are lower, right? And you hit the nail on the head when you said you can't really have mold free, right? We're not building bubbles around our houses and making it so that we don't have a fresh air exchange from outside to inside. It's actually the opposite effect of what we want to have. We just have to understand that we want to control our environment. So if we start seeing these toxic molds grow out of control inside of our homes, producing a lot of spores and toxins that are entering our body, it's going to have an effect. There are, you know, more, there are molds that don't produce toxins and they might have more of an allergenic effect, right? But I would still say, if you see those in the millions or tens

of millions, you know, it probably is going to have some sort of impact on the body that's going to affect our quality of life, whether it's just coughing and sneezing all the time or getting rashes or whatever else may be happening that's unique to us, I still think that the information that we have, the power of that information to be able to make real decisions on how do we improve our environment, that's the real value mark, you know? Can you list off a few of the most toxic molds

that people should start to be aware of as we go further in this conversation? Yeah, so there are probably four main molds that I think need to be on people's, radar, there's a couple other ones that I'll give some honorable mentions to. Stachybatra Chatarum, that is the, you know, Media's favorite coin toxic black mold. Then there's ketomium, which is basically its cousin. It's also a toxicogenic mold.

It's also typically black in color. It also takes three to five days to grow. So they kind of grow in the same locations. You usually see them actually growing together. It's hard to find a house that doesn't have both in it. If it has one, it typically has the other. Then you'll have certain species of aspergillus that can produce. okrotoxin A or aphalotoxin. Those toxins I see prevalent in people that are experiencing

symptoms when they do, you know, the testing of the body itself. And those molds can easily grow out of control because it only requires typically about 60% relative humidity or more to start to grow inside of a home. And unfortunately, parts of the country you might live that might have those levels perpetually. We also see mycopenelic acid as another major issue. That's typically produced by a penicillium species, mycophenolic acid, for those that don't know, it's very interesting. It's actually what we make immune suppressing drugs out of. So prime example of this, if I were to get an organ transplant tomorrow,

they would likely pump me up with mycophenolic acid so that my body doesn't reject this new organ. So there are life-saving, immune-suppressing drugs that we take. The problem is that if I'm not getting an organ transplant and I'm breathing in high levels of mycopenolic acid all day, I'm gonna suppress mycophonelic acid all day, I'm going to suppress my immune system, and that's going to happen by accident, not on purpose.

And the effects that happen with that perpetually are not good. And so we have those typical molds that we see that I see the most prevalent in people, just looking at people's lab results all day long. And then the other honorable mentions, we have fusarium and seeing some of the toxins out of fusarium are a little bit troubling. It's a little bit harder to test for, so you don't see it as much. And I think we got to do better on the technology side to be able to include that more and more in some of the testing technologies. And then mukeur.

So like in COVID, in the pandemic, when we're dealing with COVID-19, in India, you were seeing a lot of people die from mukeye mycosis. And this is actually a mycotoxin that is produced by a mold species called mukear. You don't see it a lot on this part of the world. But recently, I've been seeing it pop up on clients' testing results. and it's been pretty cautioning for me to say, we got to remediate that area because that is another toxicogenic mold

that we want to be on the lookout for, even though we don't hear much about it over here. So I'm giving them honorable mentions. We're on the lookout, and it's definitely an evolving science here. So we're going to talk about how to find mold, what to do with it, what you can do on your own, and where you might need an expert to come in. But before we do that, just a couple other questions

I want to do to lay the groundwork. So you mentioned that one of the areas that you often see mold inside of these homes. It could be in the drywall or some place that has exposure to ongoing water damage. You have a leak, you have a pipe, something in your HVAC system. So let's say that there is some of these toxic mold species in my HVAC system at home.

How is it that those molds, if you're not interacting with them yourself, touching it, putting your hand in the HVAC, cleaning it yourself, how is it that they actually damage our body? think any, I don't think a lot of our audience actually knows about the sort of superpowers and defense mechanisms that mold has to preserve their own life and how those defense systems can actually harm our health. Yeah. So mold is going to sporulate. That's how it reproduces.

So if you put it like this, it's, it's a colonizing organism that's constantly reproducing and creating particles. Well, the other issue about mold specifically is that they produce toxins typically to fight over the same real estate with each other. Let me give an example. We have some ketomium growing. We have some stachy botchus going. They're actually trying to kill off each other and take over the real estate

because in their mind, if they had a mind, it would be to survive. Well, to survive means killing off anything else that's a threat near them, which is going to be bacteria, mold, other microorganisms that they're fighting for that same Earth's life source water. And so we actually are typically innocent

bystanders of chemical warfare happening inside our walls, inside our HVAC systems. And we have no idea because these particles are 50 times plus smaller than what the eye can actually see. So that's where those things come into play. But they're also producing particles. Now, the larger the colony, the more particles it's going to produce. And one of the biggest, like, myths of this century has been, well, if the leak is stopped, the mold will just die off.

No. I mean, I've seen tests where the client told me that. That leak happened 10 years ago. There's no way, but yet the test shows that it's still sporulating because we were able to pick it up in the air right nearby. So what we're learning is these things constantly create particles to reproduce. They might go dormant and produce less, but in the right conditions, a, aka more humidity comes in or there's a little bit of a sprouting leak happening.

They come right back blazing and is unfortunately creating a lot of particles, which is entering our body. Now, if it's in the HVAC system, which is the lungs of the home, that is spreading everywhere. I mean, think about it. Look up right now. You're going to see an HVAC system. You're going to see duckwork. That is going to go from room to room to room.

So that's how problems in the kitchen become a problem in the bathroom, become a problem in the bedroom, is now it's impact in the air that you're breathing all throughout the house. Why is it that some people seem to be more impacted by these toxic spores that mold will spread throughout the home, and some people seem less impacted. What have you learned and what have you learned from some of your colleagues and colleagues and experts in the space? Yeah, it's really interesting.

It's kind of like anything else. Think about COVID for a second. I think COVID taught us so much. It's always worth mentioning. My wife and I both had COVID back in the pandemic. My wife lost her sense of taste and smell, okay? We probably had to have had the same strain. I would only imagine we live in the same house.

We go to the same places together. we both get COVID. She loses her sense of taste and smell. I have my sense of taste and smell. I am bedridden with like these flu-like symptoms that last probably three to five days. She is up exercising every day and is like completely fine, right?

Except for the taste and smell. Why do two people with the same strain not get the same illness, right? Totally different symptoms. It's because we all have different epigenetics, we all have different diets, we all have different immune systems. I mean, we're all inherently different.

And when you put that into the puzzle here, we're going to have different body fat compositions, which, by the way, where toxins stored in the fat cells, right? So you typically see women being impacted more than men. And I have a wife. I'm not going to say that women are fatter than men by any means here. But what I will say is naturally there is a higher percentage of body fat typically than in a man. So when you look at these different perspectives, you're going to see that if you have the ability to store more toxins, you also have.

different hormones from person to person, different imbalances in those hormones, you have different genetics and epigenetics. You can see how there's an infinite of variables of how it might impact two different people living in the same house. While each of us is unique when it comes to how we might be affected by mold exposure, there's so many ways to be empowered when it comes to keeping mold from negatively impacting our health. And while the realities about mold exposure can be quite scary. It's important to me that the information shared on today's show gives you practical, accessible strategies to take your health into its own hands. Now, one little caveat that I want to add in, all the experts in the space that I talk to, talk about how mold detecting it, finding it,

seeing if it's related to your health, it's not always clear. And you have to make sure whether you're engaging with somebody like Michael, who's involved with a dust test, which I'm a big fan of and you've used in my own home. I have no affiliation with them. You have to make sure, that you triangulate different pieces of information and find somebody locally, if you suspect that mold is an issue that really has the heart of a teacher and can educate. There are a lot of people now that mold is becoming way more out there in the world. There's a lot of people and companies that are doing the best they can but might have limited information. And there's other companies that are taking advantage of you and may not be doing the best they can and are just trying

to sell something off the wave of awareness. So reach out, try to look at these communities, look at Reddit, look at other places, and get feedback and advice from people. Go to a doctor that you trust in your area, who's maybe dealt with people who have dealt with mold exposure, and get information from different sources. It's definitely a little bit of detective work, and many people that we've had on the podcast have talked about the truth about that. So I just want to add in that caveat. So if you found this conversation helpful, check out my full-length conversation with Michael. We have listed it in the show notes below. And again, as always, if you enjoyed today's conversation, send this episode to a friend who might have some questions or concerns about mold and whether or not it's something that they

have to pay attention to in their own life. Until next time, thanks for tuning in.