Dhru Purohit Show - A Step-By-Step Break Down of Dr. Thomas Seyfried's Radical & Controversial Protocol to Starving Cancer

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

This interview is for informational purposes and should not be used in place of an actual doctor's visit. Always work with your healthcare provider before making significant changes to your health or medical treatment plan. This episode is brought to you by Bioptimizers and Lumebox.  Dr. Thomas Seyfried's groundbreaking research approaches cancer as a metabolic dysfunction and addresses its root cause. Although controversial, this approach has provided hope for practitioners and cancer patients. Today on The Dhru Purohit Podcast, Dhru sits down with Den Stacey, who, after being diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer, embarked on a journey seeking guidance from the Hippocrates Research Foundation and ultimately became cancer-free. The HRF Team of Daniel Orrego, Dr. Gregory Howard, and Dr. Michelle Howard describe their research and approach to guiding those diagnosed with cancer, including implementing a protocol that starves the cancer and fuels the body. In this episode, Dhru and the guests dive into (audio version / Apple Subscriber version): Den’s email to Dhru that led to this remarkable conversation (2:55 / 2:55) Treating dogs with cancer through metabolic treatment (18:36 / 16:36 ) The protocol and how individuals seek out treatment (25:14 / 22:37 )  Critical disclaimers (28:40 / 26:34) Den’s journey and treatment (36:08 / 31:46)  Dr. Seyfried’s view of cancer versus the traditional view of cancer (50:55/ 46:41) Starving the cancer while fueling the body: The protocol (1:07:00 / 1:04:07) Den’s journey to no evidence of disease (1:45:00 /1:40:29)  The pros and cons of liquid biopsies in cancer prevention (2:00:00 / 1:53:25)  The tools used in stress management, mitochondrial support, and overall health (2:02:10 / 1:57:44) Also mentioned in this episode: Den’s Study Hippocrates Research Foundation  Go to bioptimizers.com/dhru now and enter promo code DHRU10 to get 10% off any order and up to 2 travel-size bottles of Magnesium Breakthrough for a limited time.  Lumebox is offering my community $260 off their FDA-registered portable Red Light device! That's over 50% off! Go to thelumebox.com/dhru and get your Red Light device. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi everyone, Drew Prote here. On today's episode, we're walking you through cancer as a metabolic disease and a step-by-step protocol that one individual followed when it comes to the research and work of Dr. Thomas Seafreed. Now, a little quick background. Dr. Thomas Seafreed is one of the world's leading cancer researchers. In fact, he's been on this podcast before and his episode has over 1.2 million views. Now, back in 2012, Dr. Seafreed published a groundbreaking book titled Cancer as a Metabolic Disease on the Origin Management and Prevention of Cancer. In that book, Dr. Seyfried lays out his groundbreaking research and breaks down his

press pulse protocol, which is a novel therapeutic strategy for the management of cancer. Now that protocol includes a whole host of things, including metabolic therapies like caloric restriction, fasting, a ketogenic diet, and a few additional therapeutics including hyperbaric oxygen and drug management. And this protocol has been proven in Dr. Seafreed's research in mice to slow down an even reverse tumor growth. But here's the thing. If you interview Dr. Thomas Seafreed, like I did, it's hard to get a true sense. sense of everything involved in the protocol for human beings. And that's because the protocol is super in-depth, incredibly technical, and also in the category of highly experimental.

And the last thing Dr. Seafreed wants to do is to give anyone a false sense of hope by only covering little bits and pieces of his protocol. But today, we have an incredible guest on the podcast. His name is Den Stacy. and he's walking us through his step by step and of one experience following Dr. Seyfried's recommendations and protocol through the support of his team at the Hippocrates Research Foundation. Now, even though Dr. Seafreid's work in mice has been repeatedly proven, there are no, let me say that again, there are no clinical trials in humans, and the metabolic therapy

approach to cancer management is considered highly, highly experiment. But even with that said, organizations like the Hippocrates Research Foundation are documenting a growing body of case studies so that the awareness and interest in Dr. Seafrit's protocol and the metabolic approach to cancer management continues to grow. Let's jump into this episode starting with the mind-blowing email that Dan Stacey sent me about his experience on Dr. Thomas Seyfried's Pulse Press Protocol. I hope this email finds you well. My name is Dan Stacey and I have an incredible and inspiring story to share with you. In October 2022, I was diagnosed with stage four pulmonary artery intimal sarcoma, with a metastatic growth in my right lung. Despite the grim prognosis, I chose not to undergo chemotherapy or radiation and instead delved into the science of Dr. Thomas Seafreed. With the guidance of an amazing team of mentors turned friends, I constructed a human scale press pulse protocol

inspired by Dr. Seafreed's ground baking research, which initially was conducted on mice. Remarkably, what seemed like an insurmantable battle against cancer has taken an extraordinary turn. In my recent PET CT scan, they found no traces of cancer in my body. Yes, you read that right, I'm currently cancer-free. During many previous podcasts, Dr. Seafreed has mentioned the value of people hearing from someone who has put his science into action. Well, that person is me. I have comprehensive PET CT scans and other records documenting my entire journey,

undeniable proof of the effectiveness of this approach. You are more than welcome to review them all. Until now, I've chosen to keep the specific details of my day-to-day quasi-private, hesitating to share my protocol or its success publicly before achieving this momentous milestone. But now I believe it's time to spread the word. Drew, I would be honored to have a conversation with you and share my experience with Dr. Seafreid Science and the HRF team. Let's discuss how it works, the challenges I faced, and the incredible difference it made in my life.

Beautiful. Well, Dan, welcome to the podcast. We have this incredible team that supported you with us here, and I'd love to start off with some introductions. Can we start at this end over here? I'm Dr. Michelle Howard, and I'm one of the co-owners and founders for Hippocrates Research Foundation. Beautiful. I'm Dr. Greg Howard, married to Michelle Howard. Howard. And yeah, we started Hippocrates Research Foundation a couple years ago with Daniel Arego. Daniel? Indeed. And I am the third co-founder along with Dr. Howard and Dr. Howard at Hippocrates Research Foundation. Fantastic. Well, it's an honor and pleasure to have you all here. Dan, before we come back to your story, we want to set up a little bit of a foundation

of what we're here to talk about today. Today we're talking about cancer and rethinking cancer. We've had on a name that you mentioned, Dan, a little bit earlier. We've had Dr. Thomas Seafreed on the podcast, and I'd love to start there. Tell us about the Hippocrates Research Foundation, whoever wants to get started, maybe Daniel, how you guys came together and how Thomas Seafreid's work became a pivotal part of what you wanted to show was possible when it came to the world of cancer. Yeah, it's an interesting trajectory because all of this started really 10 years ago now, right around 2013, middle of 2013, where our group became aware of metabolic therapies and specifically the intersection of metabolism and disease. And at the time,

our group was really more focused on performance enhancement, working with athletes, looking at how nutrition impacted performance. And when we became aware of luminaries like Dr. Angela Poff, Dr. Chilaari, Dr. Shannon Kessel, who are all part of Dr. Degistino's team, along with books like Peter Attia, and of course, Dr. Seafreed. And we began to recognize that there really was a role for nutrition as part of health and wellness. And that got us connected to this whole concept of cancer as a disease of mitochondrial metabolism. And specifically, Dr. Seafreed's Press Pulse Protocol. And that was early days in the sense that, you know, he had just published his seminal work,

cancer as a metabolic disease in 2012. But that appreciation at that time led to a continuing interest in trying to understand at a level of sufficient confidence of precisely how these protocols could work in the real world. In other words, going from the experimental record, the pre-clinical record, and taking that forward and working with people in this regard. And at that time, the primary focus was on brain cancer and also breast cancer. And as that process continued, we ended up working with dogs. That was part of the KetoPet Sanctuary project that we pursued. and that led to a phenomenal phone call that I got one day from Dr. Howard, who said,

hey, what are you guys doing? And at that point in time, I said, why don't you just come over and hang out? Which amazingly he did. And that led to a reconnection in LA and really a collaboration that has just continued in a very egalitarian fashion and so far that we've pursued what, interests us and primarily followed the science as it's developed. And over time, that collaboration is really what led to the formation of Hippocrates Research Foundation, which is really just an excuse for us to put everything under one roof and

continue our collaboration in learning and discovering and trying to understand what the most effective means of disease management are in reference to this amazing work that Dr. C. and his colleagues have pursued now for almost 30 years since the 90s. This episode is brought to you by bi optimizers. Do you know if you're getting enough magnesium? It's a super important question because I'll tell you the truth. Four out of five Americans aren't. And that's a big problem because magnesium is involved in more than 600 biochemical reactions

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get the vitality you need to conquer your goals and dreams and life. Just go to buy optimizers.com slash Drew and enter the promo code Drew 10. That's D-H-R-U-10 to get 10% off any order. And by the way, in addition to the discount you'll get by using the promo code Drew-10, D-E-H-R-U-10, D-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-1. D-H-R-U-10, you can get additional gifts with every purchase, up to two travel-sized bottles of magnesium breakthrough. Be sure to act fast. This is a limited time offer. Again, that's buy optimizers. com slash D-H-R-U to get 10% off any order. Dr. Howard, would you like to add anything to that? Yeah, so the work that Daniel's referring to was all done and paid for by Quest Nutrition. So Daniel was in charge of research and development at Quest Nutrition.

And then they had an interest in metabolic disease and cancer. So they set up this ketopat sanctuary in Georgetown, Texas, which is roughly 45 minutes from Austin, Texas. And I was over there visiting my daughter. She was a freshman in college at University of Texas. And I'm just looking at a local paper and it says, we want dogs with cancer. Just in a phone number. I'm like, wow, interesting. And I was already into studying cancer.

And my dad a few years before, he had the cancer, my interest in cancer started with my dad a few years before. He had, first he had tonsil cancer, and then he had radiation chemo onto standard of care. And about a year later, he had metastasis all over in his lungs. And it was a primary cancer from the radiation. And so I'm like, wow, this is horrible. There was nothing left to do. And he'd already lost 80 pounds from standard of care.

I'm like, wow. And Michelle, she had malignant melanoma, and we were already into, from 25 years before, we were already into looking at circulating cancer stem cells. You know, how can we monitor this thing? So she doesn't get a recurrence. And we stumbled on to this company, called Enkoblot, which does a liquid biopsy. We can get into liquid biopsies later.

But anyway, I was able to, with my dad, I was able to reverse his late-stage cancer with something that it was just a dream of mine. How can we reverse this? And so I was, Michelle had been using some immune therapy topically called Eldera cream. And I'm like, man, why couldn't we just rev up my dad's immune system, somehow get that to see. the cancer. And so I thought, and we were owners of a medical center, North Cyprus Medical Center. So my dad's doctors were my friends and colleagues and they were head neck surgeon and radiation oncologist. I said, hey, can we just do pinpoint radiation to one of his cancers and maybe it'll get into the bloodstream? His body will see it as foreign and it'll go away. I mean, it's just like a

dream, right? And so anyway, and I called and found out at the time, this is quite a long time. before checkpoint inhibitors and immune therapy. So I called a professor at Penn State and says, hey, you seem to be the leader at this time. Tell me how to rev up my dad's immune system, enhance it. And this is, so we had a 45-minute conversation. We had a plan. So we went, we did one minute of radiation or pinpoint radiation on my dad.

His immune system was enhanced. And five weeks later, all of his cancer is gone. It's like a miracle, just a miracle. Now we know that that's called the abscopal effect. There's hundreds of studies on it. And so that was my interest. So and then Michelle, she had been diagnosed with malignant malanoma years before, 20 years before. And so that was in the back of our mind.

So we were looking for these liquid biopsies to see, you know, kind of monitor so she wouldn't get a recurrence. And when we did a liquid biopsy, it came back, she didn't have, well, she had the malignant malnoma cell still floating there. But she also had ovarian cancer. So I'm like, wow, we just have to be full-time cancer researchers now. But Michelle and I, we're anesthesiologists. We're not trained that way. And anyway, so our interest was piqued. When I was over visiting my daughter, we see, we want dogs with cancer.

I'm like, I know there's something there. And then Daniel's on the other end of the phone. And so we go over there and it was a great facility. I mean, and it was all kind of hidden away. You know, they didn't really want anyone to know what they were doing. They're just, you know. And can I just one little piece of context? So just the way that I understand it, Daniel, from the story that you shared with me,

you guys were taking dogs that were literally on the verge of being euthanized because they had cancer. Yep. You had put out an ad asking for these dogs. And essentially, the vision was, can you put these dogs on a version of metabolic therapies? Precisely. And can you notice that something. thing would happen and potentially were their cancers go away. That's how I understood as a layperson. Exactly. Exactly. And so when I got there, I mean, I was all in. I was like, man, we got to be

part of this, you know, because they're doing some great things here. And I knew about the press pulse protocol and safe read stuff, but they were into it much deeper than I was. But I also knew a lot of things that they didn't know. And the interesting thing, they were spending money like drunken sailors and had no medical director. And I'm like, this is unbelievable. Here's an opportunity. So they flew me out to Marina Del Rey, was where their headquarters.

I met with these guys for several hours, and they were all bodybuilders, which is very interesting. So I'm thinking, when I looked at them, they're all, you know, Daniel's like the smallest guy there. And they had veins, you know, in the forehead. And I'm like, I don't know. But then after spending some time with them,

I'm like, yeah, these guys, they know what they're doing. So anyway, they offered me a job on the spot to be medical director. I said, I'll work for free. I just want to spend your money. Because for me, to spend someone else's money in research, wow, this is a dream come true. In fact, this is where we're going with it now. We want people to donate. We want to spend your money to do more research.

And so we did that until Quest sold a few years later. And so there was no one funding the research. So Michelle and I decided where we start Hippocrates Research Foundation and continue on with what they were doing. And Daniel is a big part of it. Daniel, just for a second, because it's so mind-blowing for people to hear that you were rescuing dogs, you were bringing them in, and then you're putting them on a protocol. So first and foremost, is that legal? Is that like allowed? Like, were you able to do that?

Yeah, it was. And then also like, tell us, what did you do to these dogs and what did you see that happened? Sure. So just to back up maybe two small steps, just for context and clarity. So Seafre laid the groundwork in two ways. One with his own experimental records and with preclinical studies, showing these modes of metabolism in mice. But then you have this incredible 100-year history of research that further clarifies this. understanding of cancer as a disease of dysregulated mitochondria.

And so when we originally met any number of the brain cancer, pancreatic cancer patients, breast cancer patients, we could see in humans that the application of metabolic control, along with the use of procedures like the hyperbaric oxygen therapy, novel and repurposed substrates, had a measurable effect. You can see the outcomes very clear. clearly on PET CT scans. So these aren't mysteries. One can know quite a bit about these outcomes. But we wanted to pressure test this further in a model that would allow us to see results much more quickly and in a model where compliance wouldn't be an issue. And so that was really where the whole

concept for Keto Pet Sanctuary came about. And that was largely driven by primarily a collective interest in dogs. We all love dogs. We all have dogs. And we all knew that cancer, is, you know, a tremendous challenge for dogs, particularly now in the modern epic, given what they eat primarily, which is, you know, heat-treated sugar pellets, which is a problem for animals. And so what we did, we said, okay, look, if these are interventions that function in mammals, then a dog is sort of the ideal candidate to receive them because their compliance is perfect, whatever you give them, they will eat. We can measure with regularity. And we, you know, we had a whole team of veterinarians and vet techs that would make sure that they were fed very precisely, that would

monitor their blood levels multiple times a day. So we were able to replicate in a pretty large cohort of dogs, effectively the same results that Dr. Seafree was getting in rats and the same results that we could observe quite clearly in the brain cancer and breast cancer patients. And so that gave us a lot of confidence to go back to working with people and say, hey, look, this isn't just wishful thinking that occurs in a laboratory. This is something that is consistently, predictably, and repeatedly observable. And there's a body of data that, you know, can offer people some level of confidence that these results are not only real, but that one can rely on them in some fashion that would allow folks to be able to take that understanding and apply it to

themselves. You were building on Seafreed's work. Precisely. Because there's no dispute in his pivotal paper, which was published in, I think it was 2017. Yeah, that's the press pulse. The press pulse protocol. In that paper, which has been peer reviewed by many individuals, there's no denying that the cancer cells were destroyed in mice by following a specific protocol. So even very traditional cancer researchers, they'll say like this is very important work. There's a gap that's there which is, hey, this is mice and mice are not small human beings. So the thinking that you guys had, if I understand correctly, was, okay, to get one day hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars to try to do a clinical trial in human beings is very much a long shot.

Who is going to fund this? How are we going to, you know, raise awareness about this? So at least can we start one step above, which is can we start with dogs? Yeah. And can we show that if this worked in mice, then it's most likely going to work in dogs. And dogs in particular, you mentioned, you can control everything they ate. So if we had that, that would be another step. We'd be standing on the shoulders of giants, adding one more stepping stone to ultimately get to a place where there would be more individuals that might have confidence with the right medical team to want to understand.

undergo this protocol themselves. And then with those, you would build up, as part of the Hippocrates Foundation, you would build up a case study base. That's accurate. You said it brilliantly. And is it that the case studies would then at least drive a little bit of buzz, like Den's case study, that more eyes, more eyeballs, the consumers, other researchers, other physicians would start to pay attention and say, huh, maybe there's something deep.

here that we have to pay attention to. Yeah, I mean, you've characterized it in its totality because, you know, the case study record with metabolic therapies is fairly rich. So it's not, it's not thin in that regard. You can look at an inventory of people that have used metabolic therapies in any number of combinations. Some people, it's just the nutrition. Some people, it's the nutrition plus the hyperbarics. Some people, it's the entire balance of the nutrition, hyperbarics, repurpose substrates. And so you can see the results. A lot of people do it sometimes in combination with the standard of care,

or oftentimes a lot of the people that we work with have already failed out of the standard of care and are now using metabolic therapies to not only extend survivorship, obviously, but ultimately to progress towards disease resolution, which is the ultimate target. And so that case record history is very important insofar that there's a rich history to draw on, but one of our primary objectives at Hippocrates Research Foundation is to continue to put more bricks in the wall, right? To keep adding to that case record history so that people can see like, yes, this is a repeatable, predictable process that can be used to effectively manage disease. Yeah, when I look from the outside, when I look at the work that you guys are doing together as a team, is that when I interviewed Dr. Seafreed and I've had many friends have them on their podcast too, And these episodes have millions of views on YouTube.

There's a huge demand that's out there of people looking for guidance, looking for a different solution that's out there, especially with cancer rates increasing. 40% of us to 50% of us in our lifetime will develop cancer at some point in time between birth and death. And even as fantastic as that information is, even for myself as a host, it feels very 30,000 feet view of metabolic therapies. And in interviewing Dr. Seafreed, you get the basic concepts. You get the basic idea. But even I, until I had a chance to speak with you, Dan, and meet you, Daniel, you actually don't even really know what are people really doing.

And part of that, Seafreed said inside of our interview is that he doesn't want to give people false hope by getting into little bits of detail here and there without them fully understanding what the true pulse protocol pulse press protocol actually is and so my hope in today's interview is that in having everybody here especially you den and the team that supported you is that people actually get a chance to see what does this really look like and that's the bricks on the wall that hopefully i can help you guys yeah spread the word and the message that's out there. When you think about the protocol and in the Hippocrates Foundation work is,

I was blown away to hear that you kind of put a bat signal out there to individuals. And you say, listen, if you're interested in C-Fread's work, but you're not sure exactly how to implement this, lean on us, reach out to us, and we can help you figure it out. Can we talk about that for a second? Who wants to jump in on that? And so most of the people come through Safeway. So he refers them to you. Yes. And so we get now many, many people from around the world calling us every single day.

And that's all happened in the last probably six months is when it really picked up. But he doesn't really have the staff or the people to implement his own protocol. He's not a clinician. He's a PhD. So he needs people like us to actually do his. work and see it through. So he, every day, he sends people over to us. And so now we're turning down at least one person a day, which is unfortunate because we're just overrun with people want our... Too much interest. Too much interest. And where we're going with it is initially, yeah, we need the individuals, but what we want to do is now we're kind of selective in the people that we're

going to work with. And so we can, and Dennis was the perfect candidate to work with. He's in his 40s. And he was, honestly, he was touch overweight, but heavily muscled. And we knew that that was ideal candidate. And he hadn't had chemo radiation, so he wasn't all beat up from that. So now we're selectively picking these people to work with because a lot of people are calling us, they're on hospice, weeks to live. We're not miracle workers.

And so maybe at some point we'll be able to pull those people out of the fire. But right now, we're pretty confident what we're doing with people that are, well, they have stage four cancer, but say reasonably healthy otherwise. And then those people, even with the dog model, if the person is pretty healthy, we can pull them out of it. But if they're not so healthy, probably not yet. But that will be later on down the road. But right now, yeah, the patients are coming from Safe Ried, and we're getting as many inquires as we want. But the next step now is to get people to the people with the money,

decision makers to back us and what we're doing. And so that's kind of the next step. And that would be insurance company that want to lower the cost of health care. That would be a self-insured company that has skin in the game, so they self-insure for their employees. those would be the type of people. There's other insurance companies called stop loss insurance companies. They got skin in the game.

So we're just starting now to get contacted by those people. And so they want to lower the cost of health care and work with us. And in the past, experimental treatment meant expensive. So no company, no insurance company want to pay for experimental treatment. We would be considered experimental for sure. But our cost is about one-tenth of what traditional standard of care would cost. So that's now they're interested. You know, an important part of this conversation is both highlighting what's possible.

Yeah. But then also, because this will be out there to the public, including the disclaimers that people might want to need to know from both a legal purpose to make sure, you know, we're all protected under free speech. Sure. But what are some of those important disclaimers that you want to share here for this conversation? Yeah. So as physicians, we don't establish a physician-patient-patient relationship. You're not anybody's doctor. Not anyone's doctor.

So we educate, we advocate, we facilitate. And usually Michelle and I, we don't talk to people that call in. Like I never talked to Dennis until after he was cancer-free. So Daniel and other people talk to, and they give studies, they educate them on how to do everything. But we're definitely not establishing a physician-patient relationship. So the people that we work with, they have their own physician. but they have to find a physician that's willing to work with us, but we kind of quarterback their care and say,

hey, this is the research, what do you think? And so they can, and a lot of these physicians, we're working with a Dr. Quinter down in the Cayman Islands. Unbelievable. He's taking what we're doing and running with it. And so he's adding some other wrinkles to this that in the future, it took Dennis about six or seven months to go from stage four to stage zero. I think within the next year, we'll have it down to two months.

And so, and Dennis is going to tell you more about his experience with the diet. The diet is rigorous. No one likes the diet. That might be an understatement. But you have to know it's temporary. You know, and that's the thing is I think, like for me, when I first found out that I had stage zero cancer, you know, I was thinking, oh, my gosh, am I going to do this like for my entire life? and, you know, I was in my 50s. And so you're thinking that almost seems like impossible, you know, to do that.

And so I think that's one of the things is you have to realize it's something, you know, for the next year maybe. But then there's going to be some reprieve where you can make some adjustments, some changes, you can relax a little. And then you're going to have to probably pick it back up again. And so, but I think that just so it's not so daunting. This episode is brought to you by Lombox. One of my favorite daily practices is using red light therapy. There are thousands of articles and studies published in PubMed on its efficacy and its ability to improve all sorts of aspects of life, like improving our skin, helping with chronic inflammation.

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$260, $260 off their portable red light device. That's over 50% off. All you need is a special link. Just go to the loombox.com slash D-H-R-U, Drew, that's me, to get your device and start stimulating your mitochondria today. That's the T-H-E-L-L-M-E-Box.com. slash d hr u that's me to get 260 off this portable red light device that i recommend absolutely and we're going to get into the weeds of all of that including your story here in a minute so just to reiterate here you know for anybody who's listening uh you know you guys are not out there trying to be anybody's you know doctor no you're really highlighting and the organization is highlighting the c-freed protocol and how to make it possible for a human being,

which was ultimately the goal of this mice research is that eventually can we show that this is possible in human beings? It's experimental. Everybody should understand that, right? And the work that we're doing here and the work that you guys do individually, it's all for educational purposes. Now, the vision one day is that the hope would be

that you could go to a center, a place, Yeah. That maybe even this work that you guys are doing inspires some supportive drug treatments, right? So that could be some things that happen in the future. For right now, it's best sort of classified as like serious, you know, almost like citizen science, right? I mean, not to belittle it in a way. It's like you, you know, your formal background is not your anesthesiologist. you're not coming from a cancer research background,

but you're looking at how to apply the research base that's out there and support individuals who feel like there's no hope, there's no opportunity. That's there. Yeah, you bring up a great point, actually. And just sort of in the interests of transparency and disclosure, that is one of the things that is sometimes daunting for people to recognize because one of the things that Dr. C. Free dress so brilliantly is communicate this conceptual framework for press pulse therapies.

And that resonates with people, right? They grasp that. The application is much more challenging in the sense that with the standard of care, this is a medicine that happens to you, right? You go and get your chemotherapy. You go and get your radiation. Metabolic therapies is medicine that you do, right? So independent administration comes with an immense amount of responsibility that's taken

on by the patient. And that at this point in time is a very different model, which is why, to your earlier point, we aspire to be in a position to put all of this under one roof, where people have a destination where they can go, or it's a much more managed process than it is now. That's your goal for the future. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. Which I'm sure is decades of work. Hopefully not. Hopefully not. The people are listening. The people are listening, You know, you never know who's listening. That's what I've always seen from being podcasts. You never know who's listening, who's been impacted.

And for those individuals who are curious, you know, they can reach out to you to be part of the journey. Yeah. To support that. I think it's a good opportunity, if everybody's okay with it, that we can pick back up with your story, Den. Sure. And we could talk about a little bit about how things got started. Sure. You know, you opened up with the email that you sent to us.

And after I got that email, I reached out to you. and we hopped on the phone and I said, take us from the beginning. So I can better understand how you met this incredible team and how they helped you implement Seafried's work. Sure. So it interestingly starts off not at cancer, but it starts off with some challenges and chest pain that you were having. On a hillside.

Can you talk about that? Yeah, sure. My wife and I and our friends all really enjoy hiking. We live in Victoria, which is Vancouver Island and British Columbia. And there's all kinds of beautiful forests and hikes that we do on a regular basis. And I was noticing that the elevations were starting to get tougher. And on this particular day that we're referring to, well, it's actually three days in a row. We did three hikes in a row.

And the first day, I had extraordinary chest pain, a very strange, tightening feeling, breathlessness. I thought, I don't know, maybe I'm just tired. We went back to another mountain the next day, and the same thing happened. And then Thanksgiving Day, this is October 2022, we were on a particularly difficult incline, and it just froze me in my tracks and I had to go down. And then later that night at Thanksgiving dinner, I helped my mother move the table from one room to another and got the same level of breathlessness. So this is problematic.

I immediately went to the hospital and explained to this story to the doctors who were alarmed and put me in a CT scanner that they had there. And what they thought they found was a pulmonary embolism, a blockage in the pulmonary artery, which isn't good, and immediately started to mobilize a team of people to address this. This led to me being taken to another hospital and a cardiac care team. And it became clear fairly quickly that this wasn't a pulmonary artery, or sorry, a pulmonary embolism.

It was, in fact, some kind of massive tumor in my pulmonary artery. And the process began to figure out what to do. They were fairly certain that it was too late that sometime within the next 24 or 48 hours, I would die. The space that was left in my pulmonary artery for all of the blood that my body needed to do, what it needed to do was down to about a millimeter. and they were surprised that I'd even made it in. And a process of exploration about what we might be able to do.

At that time, I was 49. I had four children, several of which were going to graduate in the spring. And my wife and I just sort of began exploring with them, what might we be able to do. Now it's also cancer. Now it's also metastasized to the right level. lung at a minimum that they can see in the scanners. And they were fairly certain that this wasn't going to go well. Luckily, this particular hospital in Canada had an interest in and

was the top, is the top cardiac surgery hospital, I think, in the country. And they had poached a couple of young doctors from out east who were trying to, make a name for themselves with a new surgery that was, I think they were lovingly calling the pop and swap in our conversations where they would be able to take and replace my pulmonary artery with another human pulmonary artery and pulmonic root. And they had never had a chance to do it. But I think the fact that I was terminal that there wasn't a way out of this from their perspective and that they were able to pull some strings and get the human donor tissue they needed allowed us to allowed me to what they thought would be by some time. They thought if we do

this surgery, we'll clear up a little bit of room in your pulmonary artery. Worst case scenario, if that goes bad and it gets shredded during the surgery, we'll give you a new one. And that'll maybe get you to the spring. But this cancer you have is going to definitely kill you. So for them, it was this opportunity to do this new cool surgery that they wanted to prove out, which from our perspective gave us time to figure out what we would do next, not to die. And so they did that surgery. They said we had maybe a 30% chance of bleeding out on the table. We took that risk. I thought, you know, it's either die or die. So we'll take that risk. They did the surgery. It was successful and that started us down the road. But during that, they obviously got a chance to take

a biopsy of what this tumor was, which happened to be the size of a, I guess, a Mandarin orange in my pulmonary artery. If anybody wants to see photos, they're on my blog. It's quite repulsive. Well, we'll put them on here. Yeah, that's great. We'll grab and while you're talking, we'll put them on the slideshow. Awesome. And then they did this biopsy and they were able to determine this is pulmonary artery intimal sarcoma, which is not good. This is a one in 80 million cancer. And it is fast moving and it's universally lethal. At first we thought maybe it was a different type of cancer and maybe there would be some treatments that we'd be able to do that would address it. But after they got that biopsy, the oncologist was not optimistic.

In fact, I think that they had told you that you had maybe at most successful. to eight months. Yeah, they said if you don't do chemo and radiation, you'll be dead in six to eight months. And if you choose to do, and you'll have a, you know, relatively pleasant standard of living during that period you can spend with your children and, you know, you won't be sick and miserable. If you do the standard of care options that we're telling you, you may live 15 or 16 months, but they'll be very uncomfortable. Sick months. So on one hand, you just had this life-saving surgery, which was new and innovative even for that hospital. It just happened to work.

That was there. And then on the other hand, after you successfully survived that surgery, which had many risk in itself, you were now being given a decision, both of which options instead of the decision, whether you went with standard of care, chemo, radiation, etc., or whether you just decided to, you know, get your affairs in order, as traditionally said, both options. And pass gracefully. And pass gracefully as the hope. Both of those options ended with your life essentially ending between six to six months to maybe two years at most. Right. Yeah. So at that point in time, where was your headspace at? And you had had some tiny bit of understanding that,

maybe there was a different way of going about things. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I can. It's actually really interesting. A year earlier, a business partner of mine's mother, who he and I both loved dearly, was diagnosed with a form of cancer. And I had been doing some research, sort of unrelated to cancer, but related to metabolism. And he said, hey, can you just take a look at what's out there as an alternative to standard of care? And I did a little bit of digging and some reading over a weekend and over a few days. And I came across the CrossFit interview or presentation that Dr. Seafree did at a CrossFit conference somewhere, which is I find one of his best interviews.

Yeah, the gyms that everyone knows, they do an annual conference. They get the best speakers in all different areas, including metabolic health. And you saw one of those. And I saw that. And I watched the whole thing. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. And I sent it off to him and said, hey, why don't you guys take a look at this? Maybe there's something there.

So when this was happening to me, the first thing was when I'm out of this hospital and I'm healed, I'm going to start there. Because there was no, like, I'm just, I'm not going to die either in six months or in 15. So we've got to find something else to do. And so I immediately turned to that because it was, you know, it is remarkable when you first hear this. When you first hear Seafreed present his case, it makes a lot of sense, and it is a viable alternative. Give us a, before we get the rest of the group to chime in and talk about the story of how you connected with them, give us, you know, your wife is here in the audience with us. Shout out to your incredible family who was so supportive.

And, you know, you wrote about them on the blog and everything. It's a pleasure to get a chance to meet you in person. What was the headspace of your family at this moment? as somebody who's married, has four kids, what was going on with them, especially in my experience. You know, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer about 10 years ago. I've had various members in the family. My aunt passed away from a spinal cancer that kind of spread to the rest of the body. And so I've been in this situation, nowhere near what you've gone through, but enough to know that,

you know, you've survived this surgery. now you have this idea that seems crazy to, you know, could seem, could, seem crazy to the people, which is, I'm going to take a different approach than what these doctors who literally save my life are telling me what I should be doing. And family members sometimes feeling the pressure of, hey, we just want to try to maximize the time that we have with you, right? What was the headspace of those who loved you? at that time period because of course they're coming from the most well meaning and beautiful place which is supporting you of course and this is i think this is a really important question

because it's something that comes up in many of the people that we end up talking to now for me and for the family i think it's it was a little bit easier because what we were being presented with was a terminal outcome or a terminal outcome and so you almost immediately go to to what crazy thing can we do to change this to? Well, there's a chance. I think other people in, with different diagnoses where they're being promised standard of care options or other options that can potentially address their cancer would probably their families and their friends would probably find it much more difficult to accept that somebody would look at going down this road because as far as most people are concerned,

these options are effective and they're going to work for you and why are you doing this experimental thing that might not go well and you're making yourself a lab rat? We didn't have that. The family was strangely optimistic, I'd have to say. Nikaela just never believed that I was going to die. Your wife? My wife, Nicaela, yeah.

My oldest son also, he just kept saying things like, this just doesn't make sense what the doctors are saying. I just know this isn't going to be the outcome. They were all in right away. And I guess probably we have fairly strong personalities. I imagine any family members or extended family members that weren't all in were probably just immediately shut out from the process because it was heads down in time to get busy. before we continue and how you connected with a group just wanted to come back to something that i believe

daniel and also you dr howard had mentioned which is that often the people that reach out to you are individuals that have already gone through the standard of care and they're in a similar situation which is that they feel well in a way people are like do whatever you want to do because you're not going to survive anyway is that accurate that that's a fair characterization um I would say the balance of the people that we end up communicating with have gone through, if not one, multiple rounds of various chemotherapy, immunotherapy, radiation therapy, hormone ablapalatement therapy. And while it's almost uniformly the case that they do achieve near-term tumor response, this is very common, that they don't get the effect that they're looking for, which is, substantive addition to overall survivorship, right? This is the known Achilles heel of the standard of care. Very effective at dealing with localized tumors, not particularly effective at addressing

metastatic progression over time, right? And so a lot of the inquiry we get really stems from, I've experienced the standard of care. It did give me some near-term effects, but the cancer is returned and my options within the standard of care are narrowing. And so this is oftentimes a driver for interests in metabolic therapies. And oftentimes it's really, you know, that initial interaction, the same thing that Dennis was just mentioning, they hear Dr. Seafreed speak and immediately the concepts that he's articulating resonate with them. In really two respects. One is the sustainability. And two is the underlying experimental rationale that is advocating for a process and procedure which exploits the weaknesses of tumor metabolism and enhances normal metabolism.

That is very appealing to people. It happens to be scientifically cogent and physiologically cogent. And so that's where we get a lot of people saying, I want to do that. How do I that. Absolutely. Also just taking a moment here, Dr. Howards, whoever wants to get a chance to jump in, Gregory and Michelle, I'd love for you to just take a moment here because we didn't exactly say, you know, the contrast between how traditional medicine looks at cancer and like how they understand it. And from Seafried's point of view, how him and his colleagues and there's other individuals that are in this space, but because we're mentioning him, him, what important truth, you know, the Peter Thiel question, you know, what important truth

that he and you believe about cancer that very few others end up believing? Gregory, would you like to jump on? So, first off, most people, oncologists, they think that cancer stems from a mutation. And I think that it's pretty much proven that that's not the case, that the mutation that causes the cancer is actually downstream from mitochondrial dysfunction. And those studies, they're done and really conclusively proved that. So they did, they transferred mitochondria and they also transferred the nucleus of cell where the DNA, where the mutations would be. They transferred them back and forth. And they can prove that the mitochondria, damaged mitochondria, are what driving cancer. So you have to think about

it metabolically because the mitochondria make energy. So it's really, and how we think, about all disease states and Hippocrates Research Foundation, I want to say a couple things. First, we took the name Hippocrates Research Foundation. First, do no harm. So everything we do, there's no harm, right? We're just making you stronger, better. And so we've even taken these metabolic therapies and use them in athletes, even professional athletes, to make them better. So when someone comes to us, we don't feel bad that we're going to hurt them. We're only going to make their life better. We're going to make them stronger. And so we're thinking about cancer is there's a microenvironment that sets up in your body. And that's pretty well established, too.

Cancer likes no, well, there's usually an infection involved. And I think that's pretty well understood, you know, for certain H. Pylori and human papillomavirus, you know, for cervical cancer and these different things. So we're looking at cancer more as a, an environment that you have to change the person's chemistry in long term. That's how you're going to keep them cancer-free. So we're looking at it a different way. There's a lot of ways to just get rid of a tumor very quickly. And we, you know, we're picking a way that is least toxic.

But we, there's some really, and we can talk about later, but there's some really great things that, you know, different immune therapies that really work great. And there's even a type of radiation that works great combined with what we're doing. So it's pretty easy to take even a stage four cancer and get it to go away. But then if you don't change the person's chemistry, let's say, lifestyle, the same environment that's set up for that cancer, it's going to come back. And so there almost has to be a new subset of oncology for the person. prevention, the long term, how do you keep people cancer-free? Because they're all calling us,

and they had initial success for a minute, maybe six months. But then it came back. They got another treatment. It came back. And then they're like, man, I can't, I'm so beat up. I can't do it. So they're coming to us. But at that point, it's almost sometimes too late, you know, to do anything. So we're thinking about it. And we're starting things like, let's repair the mitochondria from day one. and how do you repair mitochondria? And we can get into that. So there's a guy named Garth Nicholson. He was a researcher at MD Anderson Hospital,

and he coined the term membrane lipid replacement therapy. Every person with cancer should be starting to repair their mitochondria day one. So we're looking at it a little more holistically. Also, oncologists aren't looking for or treating the viruses associated. So like head and neck cancer, 80% of them have a certain type of virus. But they're not treating the virus. So if they don't treat the virus, it's just going to come back.

So they need to be, there almost has to be the subset of oncology that's working to prevent. And so there's 18 million people that have been treated and living, and they think they're cancer-free. But what we have done now is we follow circulating cancer stem cells, DNA fragments and all these things that pick up cancer, you. years before even the most sensitive test, you had a guest with pre-novo, and we like that company, right? They do some really great scans. So we send a lot of people to pre-novo.

A full-body MRI scan. Yes, yes. And they do other scans too. But very, very sensitive. But with a, it's called a liquid biopsy, and that's kind of a generic term for circulating cancer, stem cells, DNA fragments, and there's a lot of companies in this field doing that. So we want to to like ideally everyone would be doing one of these tests yearly. We don't have any skin in the game with the grail test. That's a new one. But there's many of these tests. And they pick them up years before.

That's what everyone needs to be doing. And now Michelle and I, we're, we think experts, because we've kept quite a few people many years following circulating cancer stem cells, we keep them low. And statistically, we know a threshold. If they don't get past a certain point, you won't get a recurrence. So that's available to everyone today. But we need a group of health care providers that know that space, and they're just not there.

Yeah, there are functional medicine people here. There's a few people know, of course, or these companies wouldn't be in business. But we need to make that more mainstream, make it available to everyone. It's disjointed right now, and it has to be brought together a little bit to make it easier for the end consumer to be able to go through the process. Well, it's the same thing. I think there's a lot of these companies, I'm sure they see an opportunity. oh, here's an opportunity. It's a new test. We can find this. Well, that's great. Now you found it. What are you going to do with that information? And then how are you going to use it to help the patient? And, okay, so you've got a certain number of some circulating cancer stem cells or DNA fragments. But what do you do to keep that number low so it doesn't manifest itself as a tumor or cancer? Right. And Michelle, she, about the time that she was, we thought she had breast cancer,

she started, for whatever reason, says, I'm going to do an Iron Man, and which was, wow. And because she never swam by career. I was like, good luck with that. And somehow she pulled it off and and I got involved. And we'd been, or I'd been using pulse electromagnetic fields, microcurrent. You know, that's a whole other crazy athletic performance field and also with some medical applications, health applications. So we started doing that stuff for Michelle. And so she quickly, within a couple years, there's a U.S. Iron Man team. Michelle made that. Our family went to Matala, Sweden, watched her compete.

That was really cool. And so what we're doing is only going to move people forward. There's nothing, you know, there's no side effect with working with us. And so we're looking at it completely different. So we're just increasing everyone, their human existence, human performance. And so, yeah, pretty easy to work with us. And we're only hampered because there's just not many people to coach these people. And we can talk to Dennis more.

We could write it all down on really, we could write it within 10 pages. We could write exactly what to do, but people won't follow it. It is crazy. Well, it's difficult, and I think it's a good opportunity to get into the protocol, but leading up to, you know, back to your story, do you prefer Dennis or Den? Den. Den. So, Den, going back to your story, and now with your family on board, you mentioned about the

support of your wife, your children, especially your older son, saying, look, your situation's a little bit easier in a way, if I could say, because you're being given to- There are no choices. What did you do from there and how did the two of you connect? I think long story short, there was a deep dive into Seafreed's work. The published work, his book, which anybody that's going through this or is listening to this and is thinking, where do I begin pick up Seafreid's book, Cancer is a Metabolic Disease and begin to meticulously study it because everything you need to know about whether or not this makes any sense, how to do it. it, all of the proofs, it's all there in glorious detail.

So I started there. I went through the papers. I watched hours and hours of videos. So, you know, let me just stop and say, thank you for, you know, doing interviews with Seafreed and everybody else that has. Because for a lot of people, that's where they, I guess, find the door to this. And in your darker hours, when you're wondering, am I doing something that makes any sense at all? going back to those videos and listening to him speak.

And with the certainty that he states the things that he does, it's just really wonderful. But so we began diving into all of this. I was reading, you know, paper after paper after paper, book after book, sometimes, you know, several papers in a book in a day. Because there's some sense of urgency, too. When somebody puts a stopwatch on your life, you know, you get focused. It's no time for Netflix.

That's right. That's right. So, you know, that's what we began to do. And so you start to put together questions like, okay, well, I'm seeing here that I get the, you know, that we need to, you know, lower glucose into a therapeutic range. But there's this murky bit of business here about inhibiting glutam analysis and glutamine and what are we going to do to do that? How is that done? You start to dig. And so I had some questions.

And I wrote to see Fried and I said, this is who I am. this is what's going on and reading your stuff. What can you help me with? And he's very busy and very much like the Howards. He's not taking people on as a doctor. You know, he's not prescribing anything. So what you get back tends to be a package of information, which gives you a kind of a another 30,000 foot view of some specifics.

And so we digested that. And then I got very specific with some questions. and I asked something about, I think, the difference in efficacy between oxoacletate and 6-dayazzo-5 oxo-l, norloosine, or Don. And at that point, I think he just got sick of my emails and sent back an email that just said, call Daniel Arego and a phone number. And so I did. And Daniel immediately picked up and said, what's going on? And I told him, and he said, you've reached the right place. let's go.

Well, Daniel, you and I caught up for coffee. Yep. Recently. And one of the things that I remember you sharing is that, you know, you get dozens and dozens, dozens of calls every week. Yep. And what you know is because of the stage of where the support system and the education for people in Den situation is in terms of, you know, you guys clearly have the protocol. broken down. You know what works and you know how to adjust it or at least give recommendations on how people going to adjust it to follow Seafreid's work. But one of the first things you mentioned

is that if you don't understand the fundamentals, you are getting started on the wrong foot. And one of the most fundamental things is understanding that this protocol and adherence to it takes a precision level individual. And you mentioned to me that you almost find more compliance from individuals that have a little bit more of a bodybuilder approach where they're like used to measuring every calorie, practicing something, you know, testing multiple times a day,

their glucose. Like it takes a certain type of person to really know that they're going to be able to walk through the specifics of falling through with this protocol. Yeah. I mean, well, you're sort of alluding to, you know, if there's any weakness to, you know, metabolic therapies in general and specifically to the press pulse protocol is how much is required of the patient, right, in terms of independent self-administration, right? The burden is on them to execute effectively on what the protocol requires, right? So that's something that's just worth acknowledging. For people who are accustomed to measuring things, yes, it does constitute an advantage to be sure. And, you know, I think that's one of the areas where sometimes people have a concept that, like, okay, I do this magical diet and somehow that does good things.

And then I do some other magical drugs and that does some other things and then I'm good to go. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, it's a somber thing to have to acknowledge, but there's no silver bullets in cancer. There's bullets. There's just no silver bullets. And so, you know, the ability to be very consistent over time constitutes an immense advantage, which is basically maybe a roundabout way of saying being able to do the same boring thing every day, week after week, month after month to produce a very specific effect on metabolism. And this primarily starts with the very precise control of daily fat grams, protein grams, and carbohydrate grams, correspondent to at least twice daily measurement of blood glucose and blood ketones pursuant to validating if,

in fact, glucose is in the 55 to 65 milligrams per deciliter range or 3.0 to 3.5 millimolar, using that scale? And is that happening every day? Is that being achieved on average over a week, over a month? Are the standard deviations somewhere below one or below 0.5? These are the things that must not only be understood and appreciated, but be applied. And that sort of goes back to what Dennis mentioned earlier, which is starting with Seafre's book is so valuable. That's the first step for everybody. It's so. valuable because it's a foundational work, but the details are in there not only in the references, but in what he's contributed to the field insofar as providing the data which demonstrates,

look, if you want to produce these effects, these are the things that must be achieved. Not today, not tomorrow. This isn't a weekend project month after month consistently. And that is daunting for a lot of people to have to face. because oftentimes, you know, people are under the impression that it's like there's a diet that it does something. Yeah, a lot of people watch the interview that I did with C-free and are like, oh, I get it. You go on the ketogenic diet and cut out some sugar.

Right. Yeah. I don't eat any sugar. Largely immaterial. The question is always, what are your glucose and ketones today and what have they averaged in the last week? And exactly how many grams of fat, grams of protein and grams of carb are being consumed on a given day, that's the litmus test. In other words, if somebody can answer those questions cogently,

you can have pretty high confidence that they are pursuing press pulse protocol with the required level of specificity and precision to extract a clinically measurable result because that's what we're looking for. In other words, with cancer, the proof is very much in the pudding. If the result doesn't show up on the PET CT scan, then what can you say you have achieved? Very important. You know, Den came into the conversation, having done probably a decent more research than most individuals who... Yeah, he came equipped. He came equipped. Yes.

He came equipped. And as he had mentioned, you know, didn't have a lot of time on his side. So it needed to come equipped. For the people that are listening now who maybe caught part of our C-free interview or maybe they're watching this for the first time. Yeah. I'd love to explain to you just high level the way that I've been sharing the Pulse Press protocol. with people who ask not having been in all the details that are there but just to give them some sense that first and foremost diet is not everything and yet diet is the foundation that's one of

the first things that i've understood in the sense that this isn't about cutting out some mars bars this isn't about not having uh sugar or adding some sugar to your you know Starbucks this is about fundamentally maintaining a precision level of blood glucose within a very specific range because when you do that, it essentially, in layman's terms, puts the cancer in a situation, not on its own, it's one part of it,

it puts the cancer in a more vulnerable position. Without that, none of the other things, as we get into them, drugs, hyperbaric, additional items that might be there, nothing else can actually have a chance to press upon the cancer or sort of target the cancer if the cancer constantly has its primary fuel sources. So that's the dietary intervention, right? Is that it's way beyond our understanding of keto.

It's way beyond our understanding of, you know, this diet or that diet or other things. And it's also has some themes and kind of rhymes like that. a little bit with fasting and fasting mimicking diets. But in the sense, it's different because if you keep fasting at some point in time, you'll die. And so you'll die of that. We call that starvation. That's called starvation. So you can't long-term extreme, extreme fast.

So you need to have something that essentially mimics fasting. And fundamentally, the diet as part of the C-free protocol is that. It's sort of creating these conditions that are sort of similar to. two, a long-term fast that's there. But it has the, and Daniels just stresses this so much. You still have to supply fuel for your body. Right, your body still needs things. Right.

You don't want the muscle breakdown. Because, again, just like what Greg was saying, is you're trying to make your body healthy so that it can fight the cancer too. And so that's what's so important about the fat, you know, the protein, you know, exactly what Dan and Daniel and Dan you are talking to people about is it's so important that you're still supplying the right nutrients for your body. It's not just, oh, let me starve myself and this is going to fix it all. Absolutely. You need to support the muscle mass in the body. You need to support all the different organ systems. So in one way you're doing the things to starve the cancer, again, quote unquote,

starve the cancer. But in another way, you're rebuilding the body as well as well as to supplying the body. We look at a lot of different. You know, usually they just look at tumor markers. That's kind of interesting. We don't really look at tumor markers that closely. We wait. But just for to educate ourselves, we're looking at a lot of other things, like the amount of inflammation.

So we know if someone has a high C-Ractive protein, that's a non-specific inflammatory marker or start with diabetes. All these things are risk factors. So we want to fix that. along the way. So we, even though it takes some period of time, they're fixing their chemistry along the way. So then they're not going to get a recurrence. So Dan hasn't implemented some of the things that, so he's about six months, post-cancer hasn't had a recurrence. And I don't think he will because he's changed his chemistry and he's still eating the same way. So when you look at things like

CRP and different immune markers, everything is fixed. And so it's got to take, you know, we want to get this process down to a month or two. But really, maybe that's not a long enough time because we haven't fixed their whole body chemistry. So just, you know, we wouldn't be any different. We'd be less toxic, but no different than using some other standard of care because it's too short. We haven't fixed their body chemistry and it would just come back. Daniel, going back to you, once you two have the conversation and you understood his background, his story, how prepared Dan was coming into it, his motivation is will to want to survive. How did you, and I think it's important for a build to understand, the Hippocrates Research Foundation, you guys right now,

you don't charge for these things. This is something that you're doing. Both, we want people to donate to you, right? And so anybody who's listening today, you know, please support the foundation and its work to provide more support to individuals and to eventually, of course, you do any other further research that you guys want to do, but essentially you guys are there as a resource and a guidance to individuals. Is that accurate to say? Yeah, that is accurate. And one of the things that Michelle and Greg and I talked about in the beginning was we understood that having a fee-for-service model just encumbers the process of being able to interact with people in a way that make sense for them. And so that's why we establish Hippocrates Research Foundation as a not-for-profit

philanthropic organization because given that we're a small working group, that would allow us to preferentialize our time to people that displayed the most interest, the most inclination, and the most dedication to pursuing Dr. Seafried PressPulse Protocol. So that was quite a conscious thing when we started because we knew that, you know, our time is limited, right? We're three humans, four humans, five humans, six humans. And so we understood that, you know, having a framework that would allow us to operate in an entirely egalitarian manner driven by people's interests would actually allow us the ability to produce the best results.

And so that was, I think, something that was foundational to the relationship between Dan and I, and the relationship between HRF and anyone that we work with is if they call, we'll just pick up the phone and say, okay, how can we help you today? And then based on their interest, we let that drive the interaction. And so we know that the people who are incessantly bugging us are the ones we have to worry the least about. And the reason for that is because they are meticulously obsessed with every detail about what's going to. on with them. And that was very much the character in nature of Dennis and I's relationship and interaction. He would call him, like, okay, what's going on today? All right, let's get into it.

Let's read these papers of it. Let's go back and talk about things that we talked about before, but now more deeply. Let's re-explore things that perhaps were working at a certain period of time, but now aren't quite working in the same way and try to understand where the adjustments have to be made. So this was a high interaction. and high touch back and forth. And that, you know, led us to understand that, you know, his ability to have success with this process was going to be elevated because no detail was left unexplored.

And many details were re-explored any number of times. And ultimately, you know, that's how you learn. And that's how we learned. In other words, in the beginning of this process, if guys like, you know, Peter, Atia, and Dominic Agostino and Dr. Seafruit hadn't been indulgent with us in, you know, answering the same question the 30th time or giving us another opportunity to interact with them and to pick their brain about things. How could we have learned? Right. So there's a little bit of a pay it forward component to that because they've been so generous and so indulgent with us. And we realized,

okay, that was what gave us an effective means of really understanding this work. And it's the same form of interaction that we have with all the people who are having success with this process. Yeah, that's, it's really important. My interaction with Daniel and with HRF hasn't been transactional in that I'm having a particular problem today with trying to figure out some issue with the paper I'm reading. And I call Daniel. and he's like, oh, here's the answer. It's never been that way. In the email to you, I said,

who was a mentor and who became a friend. And I mean that in its purest form. When you call with a question, I know that Daniel knows the answer, and he could very easily in less than a minute simply say, oh, the thing you're looking for is this, you find it here, this is what it means, but that isn't the interaction you end up with. The thing that's special about HRF and about Daniel and the Howards is that they're dedicated to developing mastery in you. So of course, they've mastered this subject matter, but for you to be able to get well and to stay well and hopefully to help other people get well and to do that, as Daniel says, week after week, month after month, year after year, to stay cancer-free. This material has to be

deeply understood. And the interaction you have with them is one of mentorship. Oh, that's an interesting question. How are you going to answer it? And it's extraordinarily effective. You come out the other side and expert in your own disease, disease management and ultimately resolution. So, Dan, you know, one of the things that people didn't get from the Dr. Seafreid interview that we did was they didn't get sort of, you know, let's say we're at 30,000 feet above

a view of like cancer as a metabolic disease. metabolic and mitochondria disease, you go a little bit further down and you're like, okay, what are you actually doing on this thing? Sure. And I'm sure you've had, of course, you have to explain to your kids, you know, they see you. So before we go deeper into the weeds here and some of the, you know, finer sort of tweaks in the ins and outs, how would you describe the protocol as you understood it to people around you who didn't come from a science background and hadn't read all of C-Fried's work?

Yeah, I think that the easiest way without getting into the weeds at all, which these guys are much more qualified to do in a much more articulate way, is just to understand that what we now understand is that cancer has two fundamental fuel sources. Cancer ferments glucose and glutamine. And so just about anybody of any age, if you tell them this fact and say, well, what do you think we should do about it? Most of them will immediately say, well, why don't we take away those fuel sources? everything that a cancer cell has to do makes cell membranes, divide, spread. Everything that happens is entirely dependent on access to its fuel source. Energy metabolism drives every other part of that. And so, number one, you have to inhibit these two fuel sources.

What are they? Well, they're glucose and their glutamine. So the first part of the protocol is figuring out exactly how far you've got a lower glucose and exactly how often and how far you've got to limit glutamine to take away the two fuels that drive cancer, growth, spread, metastasis, and everything that it wants to do every day. And so I'll jump in. So a lot of people don't know where the source of glutamine. Glutamine is your amino acid that makes your muscle.

So we need glutamine. Right. It's a healthy part of the body. It's healthy part of the body. So that's why Dennis is kind of a big guy. He's got a lot of muscle on him. So when we're inhibiting glutamine and glucose, you're going to lose some weight. and you're also going to lose some muscle.

So we can't really start with someone that's emaciated with no muscle. There's no place to go with that. So he was really, everything about his case was perfect for us. He hadn't had chemo radiation, so he wasn't all beat up. He had some weight and muscle that we could, you know, wasn't going to hurt him to take that down a little bit. And so, yeah, he was perfect. But yes, but that's the fundamental. glucose and glutamine, and then everything else kind of stems from that.

Yeah. And to add to that, as Daniel's pointing out, by very carefully and meticulously measuring fat grams, protein grams, and carb grams, you can use food as a drug to manipulate metabolism such that your blood glucose drops into a therapeutic range, which is 55 to 65 MGDL. But with glutamine, as you're pointing out, it's this very important thing. It's used in 121 processes in the body. Your immune system relies on it, which is a very important part of healing from cancer. Your gut biome and your GI tract rely on it. So it's not something that you can day after day, hour after hour inhibit. This is where the name press pulse comes from. We press on cancer by limiting access to glucose, and we do that in a sustained way, creating

metabolic stress. And then we pulse in instances where at specific times and in specific times, and in specific ways and in combination with other parts of the protocol like H-Bod and the use of other substrates, we inhibit glutamine just for a few hours using whatever method we do. In my case, it was a drug called Dawn. And that allows you to safely remove glutamine from the equation for just long enough to create a problem for cancer. On a daily basis, just to add to what you were sharing, and this is part of the meticulously following the protocol, you know, we're all sitting here, I didn't really breakfast this morning intentionally. I fasted.

I do wear a continuous glucose monitor. I don't have one on today. But if I probably would check finger prick or continuous glucose monitor, I know me right about this time. I'm probably by glucose is somewhere on the range of maybe like high 70s, low 80s. Sure. Just because I generally have a good metabolic health and everything. You know, the level that you are needing to get your glucose in, as you mentioned,

is beyond sort of what we'd be normally considered a healthy range. That's right. And it's to get into this therapeutic range. Right. And as I understand it, you want to keep it there for a long period of time. For as long as it takes. So that means that you are twice a day, again, following the C-free protocol. And Daniel, you and your team were doing this with dogs initially, right, that had cancer.

Twice a day, you're checking in using a fingerprint test to see our... you within range. That's right. And I mean, when you're really getting into it and you're really trying to find your stride, I mean, sometimes you're going through eight test strips a day. Like, you're just, you're trying everything you can to really get a handle on how your body's responding and what you're doing and whether this type of food is having an impact on blood glucose. So eventually near the end, yeah, you can get away with one or two, but I was testing quite a bit. Yeah. And it's not just, Dr. Howard, it was not just the food component that plays, a big part of C-Fried's protocol is also making sure that you significantly reduce the stress

component in your life. Why is that so key? Well, so Dennis, he told us something that we didn't know. Apparently, if you play some video game, you can raise your blood sugar 50 points and it'll stay there. Yeah, it's a funny story. It's a microstressor. Your blood glucose goes up. Well, you know, Seefried's protocol very specifically in that 2017 paper, it very specifically says, you know, stress reduction, mindfulness, meditation. These are things that you, you know, we know Cifreed. This isn't just an afterthought add in. It's critical. It turns out that stress causes your body to produce cortisol, the stress hormone. And cortisol drives something called gluconeogenesis, which is the manufacturing of new sugar, new glucose in your liver.

And so if you're not managing your stressors that can be job stress or child stress or any manner of stresser, you're bought, you know, if you get even a little bug or a little cold, you'll notice, especially when you're in these very rarefied ranges of blood glucose in the therapeutic range, you'll notice these sudden changes. And so Dr. Howard's actually referring to this very funny story where a friend of mine knew I was sort of at home, hold up, trying to heal, wasn't able to see people. people and he thought he would be very helpful. Thank you very much, Jay, and went out and bought a PS5 so that we could play PS5 golf together. But it was a Rue. He really wanted to play this game called Warzone, which is this very aggressive, high-speed, high-octane game. And so I agreed that I would play around with him. And at the end of a few hours of this game, I went from my blood glucose at 62 to blood glucose at 120, where it stayed for almost an entire day. And this is just a illustrative of the fact that external stresses drove blood glucose production in the liver

just from a game. At these ranges where you're trying to maintain blood glucose, stress management is critical. So dealing with family stress, dealing with work colleague stress, dealing with child stress, dealing with anything that's going to upset that apple cart is critical. And even we noticed with Michelle, she works out like three hours a day. for the Iron Man. And that will raise your blood sugar while you're doing it. And maybe after like three hours, it'll start to come down. But she might be at 60 or 70. And then when she's running, it'll be 110. And it'll stay pretty constant. And so, yeah, a lot of people, it's interesting with the, you know, they're taking sugar and goos and all these things while they're running a marathon. Well,

your sugar is already pretty high. And that probably doesn't do anything. It might give you a little sugar rush, dopamine release so you feel better. But metabolically, are you making yourself faster? No, probably not. You already got enough feel already. So just adding to this sort of view for somebody who's following along and they're like, okay, I'm trying to piece together exactly what he did and how he's in this situation.

So it's a dietary piece. There's a strict adherence to keeping your blood sugar within range. And there's also this other piece. which is, we talked about the stress piece. And then every so often, you're going and doing hyperbaric. Yeah, let's talk about that. Which is, I mean, it's phenomenally interesting. Not enough is said about H-Pot in many different disease models,

but in cancer, it's extraordinarily interesting. Daniel was mentioning a scientist earlier, Dom D'Agostino, who did some phenomenal work on this and was able to show with a probing electron microscope inside a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, glioblastoma cells tearing themselves apart because of reactive oxygen species at I think 2.5 to 2.8 atmosphere is absolute.

So when you get into a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, a hard chamber. A hard chamber. There's soft chambers, there's hard chambers. Yeah, the soft chambers are, you know, they're great for all kinds of things. You know, they have their own benefit and their own use. But for cancer, when we're telling people to get,

H-Bot therapy in conjunction with the press pulse, we need the hard chambers because they can go to these depths. And while you're in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber at depths above 2.2 to 2.8 atmospheres, what happens is reactive oxygen species act very much like radiation therapy does to tear up cancer cells. Radiation therapy is effectively knocking an electron off an oxygen molecule and it's causing a disregulated spin that flies around and tears up the cancer cell. Well, you're doing the same thing with oxygen, but radiation isn't preferentially targeting a cancer cell. It's doing that to every cell in the immediate vicinity. What we found is that hyperbaric oxygen, largely because the rest of the body has protection from the ketone bodies that are being burned in the cells, you get the same effect

as radiation from reactive oxygen species generated in hyperbaric oxygen at those depths and pressures. And how often are you going in the protocol? Yeah, Seafried calls for going five days a week. It can be a little bit cost prohibitive. For me, I couldn't afford the time or the treasure to go five times a week, but we were able to figure out three times a week. And so for the entire duration of all the protocols, which we breakups. We have, we probably did four protocols in total over six months for the entire time. We'd be going three days a week, making sure that, you know, one of those days you've got, you know, your substrates on board, your blood glucose low, your dawn on board, and you're in

hyperbarics. And that's a very powerful cancer killing moment. Talk about the drugs for a second. Who wants to chat about the role that the various drugs to suppress. Yeah, it's an essential component, right? In fact, Dr. Seafre characterizes it as a drug diet combination. Why is this? Well, as Dr. Howard and Dennis have already mentioned, using nutrition as a drug, right, carefully titrating your fat grams, protein grams, carb grams so that you lower the threshold of available glucose to disease is one component. One cannot really do this with the glutamine side. So there's any number of novel substrates out there, such as, you know, sodium phenobuterate, mentioned oxalacetate,

even EGCG has, you know, green tea extract has some mild effects in this regard. But it's really the six-diazzo-5-Oxyl-Nor-Lusin, otherwise colloquially. known as D-O-N that has the most powerful effects. And this is a key component of the pulse side of the press pulse therapy, right? Glucose control is chronic, in other words, every day. And then at interval, one selectively lowers glutamine using the six-diosholy oxal melanocene. And what Dennis is mentioning is that this is where what C-Frey talks about in terms of dosing,

timing and scheduling is so important. So you get your glucose into that 55 to 65 milligrams per deciliter range, maybe 40 minutes or a few minutes before you go into the hyperbaric chamber, you dose the six diazo substrate, right? You may have also included other elements like mebendazol or other substrates like berberine and metformin to further optimize glucose lowering. you enter the chamber with all of those elements of the press pulse protocol on board. And so that is, I think, a comprehensive summary of the level of precision that's required to extract these effects. And in an ideal world, Seafrit's talking about going to the hyperbaric chamber, you know,

five days a week. You mentioned, Dan, that can be cost prohibitive. It can be challenging for people to even find it in the first place. We'll talk about your story, which is kind of interesting. interesting of how you found it nearby you. But Daniel, going back to what you were sharing, is that then, is my understanding correct that, so you're doing the diet every single day, right, precision measuring the blood glucose, right? Making sure, as part of that, of course, stress is kept at bay and that the glucose is in range. And then in an ideal world, if you

are doing that, you know, hyperbaric five days a week, then every time before going to do hyperbaric, you're taking the drugs or the therapeutics to, again, put the cancer in the most vulnerable place. Is that right? Indeed. It would be every day? No, it would be at interval. So, yeah.

So not with the six-di-zo protocol, you're doing that on every fourth day. And then there's an interval period between dosing. This goes back to the dosing, timing and scheduling components. But on the days that you are dosing it, you want to make sure everything is in play. Right. You've got your glucose where you want it. You've got your other substrates on board. You dose the D-O-N just prior to entering the hyperbaric chamber. Okay, what's happening here? You are metabolically isolating cancer in a way where it's two primary fuel substrates, the glucose and the glutamine, are in short supply. You're using Mabendazol, whose mechanism of action is to inhibit the formation of microtubules.

Very important for cellular proliferation and division. within cancer cells, and then you're further impugning tumor viability by massively upregulating reactive oxygen species with the use of hyperbaric oxygen therapy. So this is where you are quite quantifiably producing tumor cell death. And the great news is, is one can refer to the magnificent work of Dr. Dagestino, which demonstrates these mechanisms of action. These are known quantities. Yeah. Dr. Howard, let's talk about... both Gregory and Michelle, let's talk about the team that one would need. Somebody's listening to this.

They have a family member. They themselves might have been diagnosed. Or there's a researcher that's listening and is thinking, well, what is the collection of a team that somebody might need to help implement? Of course, there's your foundation that you guys have put together that is coaching, you know, giving individuals guidance. But you're not their doctor. Right.

right so what sort of team do they need because they're going to be needing access to prescription drugs in some cases and uh and there's other factors that are there so would you like to chime in yeah usually these people they have a functional medicine doctor that some people refer to that as a concierge doctor that's some doctor that they're not using insurance they're paying this individual to have more access to and um and those type of doctors are And we have many of them around the world and clinics around the world that are working with us. So a lot of times they already have a lot of the pieces. We're working with a group in Turkey.

Daniel, what's the name of the? Yeah, that's Dr. Slocum's group at the chemotherapy clinic. In fact, he's published with Seafrit. So there's already a pre-existing collaboration there. Any number of the people that we've worked with have been. benefited from going to that clinic, which combines the standard of care with metabolic therapies. Yeah. We have a lady that found us roughly six months ago. She was pretty far along, and she was misdiagnosed by standard of care. They thought she had stage two breast cancer,

and they did Sentinel node biopsy, which is standard of care. And I think she's, She was clean, so they thought, well, you have stage two. But she was having all this pain in her body. So we just push, push, push. You have to get a total body PET CT scan. And she did. And it turned out she was stage four. She had metastases to her skull, to her everywhere, pelvis.

And all of her pain was really, she was stage four and really probably only had a couple of months to live. And so it was so urgent. And they had means. So Daniel contacted this group in Istanbul, Turkey. We made arrangements to get her there. And then they were able to do treatments, more aggressive treatments that we couldn't do in the United States. So there's something called insulin-potentiated chemotherapy, where they give insulin and glucose along with chemo, traditional chemo. But you can lower the dose to about a third, what you would normally get.

yet. And they were doing some other interesting things over there. So, yeah, we like to find those groups of people around the world in those clinics, and that works best. So they're overseeing everything. And then we just give our expertise on the diet and the really, you know, they know their piece. We know our piece. And when it comes together, it's just fantastic. So this lady that I'm sure she's back in the United States now, I haven't kept up with her. probably as good as I should, but she was over there almost six months in Turkey, but she's going to come back cancer-free and do just fine. And so those are the great success stories that we have around the world.

But we have clinics, I don't know, almost every continent, just everywhere around the world. So if something was to happen to us, there's many, many, many people around the world that know our protocol. I mean, very well, physicians that could just pick up the torch and run with it. And so we want to work with these clinics, ideally. But it takes a doctor there at that clinic that's willing to work with us. But when someone that's just listening to this, how do I get started was your question. They need to find a concierge doctor. And they're usually the ones that will help orchestrate that in the United States.

But we're working with, like I said, then Canada, we were. a lot of people in Canada and I'm just, yeah, all over the world. Somebody open-minded who understands and has at least a healthy bias in a good way towards the impact that metabolic therapies and metabolism can have on different disease states that are there. They don't have to have a cancer background, but they have to be open-minded to understand how this methodology works and be willing to roll up their sleeves a little bit to help their patients sort of figure out the ins and outs and the nuances around this.

I think, too, it's been, it's been, Probably some of these people have been more willing to try these things because, again, like Dan, there wasn't another alternative. And so I think that it's a little easier for people to try to get involved then because they don't feel like they have anything to lose by trying something different. Dan, what did your team look like? You know, you had your original surgeon and his team that did the surgery on you in the first place and saving your life from the tumor that was in your heart. And then you got, I'm sure, referred to an oncology team that was there that was tracking sort of your basics. Sure. As many cancer patients, you know, have their main individual.

Who was the rest of the individuals that were there that were supporting you from a standard sort of medical side of things? Sure. I guess one of the things I'd like to say is the whole team at Jubilee Hospital in Victoria from the nurses, the physicians, everybody that's, there was incredible. We developed a great bond with the whole team. They all worked tirelessly to try and do whatever they could to help me. BC cancer has a huge facility right across the street from Jubilee Hospital and that team works collaboratively. So I had an oncologist from there and an internist and a whole team of surgeons and everyone there was phenomenal. I can't say enough about the owe them literally my life and have developed some really great relationships with a lot of them. When it comes to the oncology side, great oncologist, nice fellow, but like many oncologists,

his hands were completely tied in that he's bound by law to recommend and administer standard care. And so in the exploration of this as an alternative, he had to sort of bow out. But we were able to maintain a relationship. We were able to continue to communicate. They continue to provide scans, even to this day to follow the progress of what I'm doing. More recently, they've actually taken the protocol, my data, the HRF case study, they've added it to the file. And we've begun to have very interesting conversations around what's possible. But it's very difficult. And I think a lot of people watching who are in a similar situation that I was are going to have to figure out how to navigate their oncologist and the medical community. Because this is not part of the standard of

care. It's something that they can lose their license if they recommend. And so your team becomes people that are brave enough to put themselves out like HRF and Dr. Howard and Dr. Howard and and Daniel. Of course, if you're as lucky as I am to have a wife like I do, who's incredibly gifted at, you know, the pragmatic organization of the things that it takes that you have to do every day, the things you have to eat, the drugs you need to take, where you need to be. And of course, all the family and friends that are going to be there to support you financially and emotionally. And it, you know, it takes a whole village.

You know, in hearing your story initially when we chatted, it reminded me that a big part of Seafrit's protocol and why he feels hesitant to get into the deep weeds on podcasts and platforms. is he doesn't want to give a sense of false hope. Many people who are diagnosed with cancer or are in a situation where they have a loved one who is diagnosed. Because of this world that we live in in standard of care, we're very used to, hey, go to this hospital.

Right. And then they're going to be the decision makers. They're going to tell you what to do. They're going to tell you what not to do. And largely, you just show up. Right. This is the opposite. And here, this is fundamental.

the opposite. Right. You are truly the CEO of your own health. That's right. And you had these different individuals that were there supporting you. Even some people, as you mentioned, your oncology team and your oncologist, who is a nice individual but whose hands were bound. Right. I had a very similar situation in my mom's case with breast cancer. Essentially, they said, listen, there's no research on this. This is often what a lot of people hear. Uh, there's, uh, and maybe even in some, instances, these things may be harmful, right? Again, that's kind of a standard thing that you often hear from very well-meaning individuals. Misunderstandings around. Misunderstandings, right? And not only do patients not walk away with encouragement, sometimes they can walk away with

discouragement. Absolutely. That's there. Absolutely. Largely, though, in many individuals' positions, and this was the case for you, as you, with the supportive team that you had, including the individuals here, you went down the pathway, you went down the protocol. And when it came time to retesting, you know, your traditional oncology team was a team that retested you, got the PET scans done. And they came back and they shared something, which was, I don't know how this is happening. Absolutely. I don't know why this is working. But I guess whatever you're doing, keep on doing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we organized very quickly the first, the first, protocol. And when I say I did four protocols, I really mean there's the constant press of glucose

inhibition, but we pulse these 21-day cycles of dawn and hyperbarics very aggressively. And so each one of those we sort of count as a protocol. So after the first 21-day protocol that was performed that December, December 2022, I went about three weeks later after I'd finished that to get a CT scan, just to sort of follow-up. Because we'd been kicking the can. of chemotherapy and radiation down the road, not telling the oncology team, we're not going to do it, just saying, maybe we'll do it later because you can also get fired by your oncology team for making certain types of decisions. And that allowed us to continue to get the CT scans and the follow-ups and any help we might need. And so we did one of those first follow-on scans.

And the result was that there was no reperfusion in the heart. And the C.E. And the C. stage four metastasis that they saw in the lung and the metastasis that they were seeing in the lymph nodes had been reduced by 50%. And that's in four and a half or five weeks of glucose inhibition and Don administration with HB. That's pretty quick. Oh, well, what's interesting about that and it goes back to why you stack all of these things around HBod, it does happen very quickly. We're talking about impugning energy viability in a cell. If you were to hold my head underwater, how many minutes would it take for me to die? Literally three or four maybe, depending on how long I can hold my breath, but very quickly because you've taken my cell's ability to use

oxygen as energy away. Well, this is how quickly your cancer will die when you're taking those fermentable fuel sources away in minutes. And so two and a half hours in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber where you've turned off glutam analysis and you've turned off access to glucose. And you're further stressing this with mebendazol or any of the other substrates you may be using is killing those cancers. And in the same way, when you pull my head out of the water, I'm not rescued suddenly by exposure to oxygen. So very quickly you can devastate cancer,

even in just the few hours that you're in hyperbaric oxygen. And so it was surprising then. Absolutely. I think we probably broke into tears in the car after the oncology. We were on our way to hyperbaric oxygen when the oncologist called us. But now we understand it can happen very quickly. You have to do it at an extraordinarily Olympic level. You have to be extremely consistent. You have to change everything.

But when you do, it works like a hot damn. Daniel and team, when you share her the news, how was your, own, you know, feeling. By, by no means, is this the first case study that you guys have had a chance? Yeah, the feeling is always there's more work to do. It just, in other words, it's always important to acknowledge what I like to call progress of a kind, but it's not over. And it's still not over. He's got work to do. We've got work to do. Right. In other words, the task is not, and Dr. Howard put a fine point on this earlier. The task is not to make tumors disappear, right? The standard of care is very effective that you can cut one out, you can burn one out,

you can poison one out, right? That really doesn't contribute very much to overall survivorship. One must consistently and chronically impugn tumor viability in a sustainable fashion that makes the rest of the body healthy. That is the task. So when we see improvement in people, yes, acknowledged and immediately back to work. You can never relent your vigilance in this regard. You have to keep your foot on the throttle at all times.

And that doesn't mean that you don't make adjustments, right? You do make adjustments. In fact, that's one of the things that sometimes is easy to miss, which is daily, weekly adjustments are part of your response and reaction to facts on the ground. I'm like, I don't feel well today. Okay, we have to deal with that. Or I have a stressor that I can't do anything about right now, like a cold or a flu. Okay, we have to deal with that.

Or I have some other issue. Sometimes, you know, people, they have challenges with metastatic progression to the bone, and they have ambulatory issues. Okay, that needs to be dealt with. In Dennis's case, he had a plural effusion, which is an infection of the lung that had to be dealt with. right um so one you know this is also i think important is that you know a human cannot be reduced to a glucose number and a ketone number right they're a whole human you have to deal with them as such um and that is a process of constant attention to detail every day it's it's a 24 hour a day endeavor

so den you shared that that was the results of the first first scan as a follow-up right right and you did total four of those. Yeah, before we got to a place where, yeah, that's actually pretty interesting. At the end of the fourth, we did another scan. And what we saw was that there was a tiny amount of visible tumor just above the reference range in the right lung left. They weren't really able to see anything anywhere else. But still, that's something that's there. And at this point, months down the road, working with Daniel, I'd become fairly confident in the PressPulse protocol.

I was watching at work. Protocol after protocol, I was feeling better. As Dr. Howard had pointed out, I'd eliminated pre-diabetes. I'd lost 70 pounds. I was aging in reverse. I was getting incredibly healthy. I felt great. And I knew this worked.

I just knew it. And so at that point, you know, I'd done some research and it was very likely that what was visible just above the reference range was scar tissue. But I was also prepared for the idea that it wasn't and that I may have to do another press pulse protocol. But I made the decision at that point to sort of take my foot off of the gas from a extreme. I started eating ketogenicly, but more normally. I didn't go to hyperbaric oxygen. I stopped with the mevendazol. I didn't do the dawn.

I just took my foot off the gas. Because what I wanted to know is if I have to do this for the rest of my life, which it wasn't clear whether or not I would, I wanted to know how was my cancer going to behave? How quickly would it come back? And I knew I had a PET CT scan scheduled for 90 days from the date of this scan. So I just stopped. doing what I was doing, knowing that I was accepting perhaps this was going to return and we'd have to

go again. But I really, I needed to know for myself, how quickly would my cancer respond? How quickly would it come back? Where would it go? How would it grow? And so I stopped and gripped my teeth and went through this process so that I'd have more data to set the rest of my life up with. I'd know how I needed to behave. I went into that final PET CT scheme. scan 90 days later, which was July of 2023. And I went in and whatever was in my lung had been effectively consumed by autophagy in my body. And they could find no cancer in the lymph nodes, none in the bone, no reperfusion in the heart. I was effectively NED.

All the cancer was gone. They couldn't find it, which has now further been shown to be true again in another follow-up CT scan just a few months ago. So, yeah, it's an interesting process to go through. And it'll take as long as it takes anybody to go through, depending on their level of intensity and commitment and their disease burden, really. Today, when you describe and people say, oh, what state is your cancer in? What's the word that used? Do you say, I'm in remission? No.

I say that I'm NED, no evidence of disease. really all that means is that the standard monitoring technologies can't see it. But Dr. Howard has shared with me, and it's something that we're taking very seriously and we're pursuing that there are ways now to monitor cancer that is under the reference range of PET CT scanners or CT scanners. And these are the liquid biopsies. And I think it's really important to explore that. So we would call that stage zero cancer.

Right. This is what we call it. Is circulating cells of the cancer and so the body, but you don't have yet maybe a tumor that could be noticed. On tumor markers. Tumor markers that's noticed yet. And I think that there's a good opportunity to be able to talk about that for a second. First, of course, acknowledging your story, you know, Dan, when I had heard about all this and further had conversations with Daniel and getting a chance to, you know, look at this case study and walk through it, which we'll link to inside of the show notes. just feeling, you know, so much, you know, joy for you, for your family, for your kids. Yeah. I don't have kids, but just imagining myself in that situation. And also excitement for the larger community that's there that, hey, this is another brick that's being laid of an example of somebody successfully following the C-free protocol. Right.

And being honest about how hard and difficult it is, not sugar-coding it, not telling people that this is some sort of, you know, silver bullet that's out there, but that it takes meticulous work and it takes a supportive team. And that at least that will help a few people who are on the fence of trying to understand, should they do this, should they not do this, should they work with people, are there other options on the table, that at least they feel like there's more information for them to make an informed decision. Sure. One of the things that I think is really important is we hear a lot about alternative approaches to cancer management or cancer treatment that have these miraculous outcomes. But one of the things that seems to be shared in most of these stories

is no real idea about why we had this miraculous remission or this this positive outcome. In this case, what happened in my body was exactly what was described in Seafried science. there's no misunderstanding, there's no question about why I got this result. And that I think is probably more exciting than the result itself, that you can look to the scientific literature, you can see what the experiments in animals show, you can see a hundred years of science that very clearly points to what will happen in your body if you do this, this and this. That's more exciting than the fact that it worked. I mean, it's exciting that it worked, but that we know exactly why and that it can be relied upon to happen in just about

anybody, I think that's remarkable. So, you know, the bigger context of all this, and that is very remarkable, is that, you know, we all have some degree of floating cancer cells, right, in the body or most, most of us, but our body is able to tame those if we're not diagnosed with cancer. And I share the statistics earlier, I think for men, you know, it's closer to 50% for women. It's like high 30s that between the time that you're born and in your life, you'll be diagnosed with, you know, cancer. And that seems to be rising every year. There was, in fact, some big articles that came out last week about the rise of colon cancer, especially amongst young individuals that are there. So not only is this interesting in Seafrit's protocol and the work that you guys do at the foundation, it's not only interesting,

as an intervention for people who have diagnosed cancer and are looking for solutions, whether they do the seafood protocol on its own or whether they choose to do it with the team that's doing standard of care. But also that there are some preventative elements that are there. And that goes into the story of liquid biopsies. I'd love for the two of you to be able to chime in. Maybe Dr. Gregory Howard first, you know, talk about these biopsies and pick up the conversation a little bit further. If somebody, so there's a few that are out there. I had heard about Anka Blot many, many years ago before it was unavailable from a cancer researcher named Dr. Ralph Moss, who was previously at Sloan Kettering and in kind of a little bit of a scandal that he's written about online of him not being able to write and research about alternative treatments and therapies.

He ended up leaving and he started his own organization called the Moss, Moss Reports, that primarily was featuring clinics around the world that had alternative approaches to cancer and everything that was known to work for cancer and everything that was known to not work for cancer in the alternative space. And I got referred to him because of my mother's breast cancer. And he helped us put together a team that had a functional medicine doctor. And we were not aware of the C-free protocols, but we implemented what I would call, you know, metabolic therapy's light. Luckily for her, it was early stage. It was caught early. and she did a shortened stance of radiation treatment.

And in addition to a few other things that were put together in protocol with this Dr. Moss and her doctor, Dr. Liz Boehm, who's a functional medicine doctor at the Ultra Wellness Center in Massachusetts, started by Dr. Mark Hyman, and also a cancer survivor herself. So I had heard that after my mom's cancer and the word that her oncologist used at the time was that, okay, hey, you're in remission. There's no evidence of the cancer that's there after her following her protocol for about a year to a year and a half.

We were told that, hey, you could use one of these liquid biopsies to keep tabs and see if the cancer ends up coming back because as you had mentioned, that's a major challenge for individuals. And then all of a sudden we looked up one day and then the uncle bought test wasn't available when it was time for her to do that.

Daniel, you gave me the whole background of that. We won't go into that at this point in time. But if people today, you know, who are not diagnosed with cancer, want to pursue one of these liquid biopsies that are there, you know, what should they know and what are the best options that are available for them? So the, the grail test is one. And that picks up 50 different, I think it's 50 different types of cancer very early. And then the piece of, you know, the piece of Grail is missing is, what do you do then? So, and then there's another one. There's another test that's paid for by insurance. Not as a screening test. The Grail test is also not paid for by insurance.

I think it's around $1,5,500. You go in, you get that test. We use RGCCC International for circulating cancer stem cells. So once a year I go and I get tested for circulating cancer stem cells. To your point, we probably all have circling cancer stem cells for a minute. Right. But overall, they won't show up in a blood test. And so if you have circling cancer stem cells, you've got a problem that needs to be addressed. So I, once a year, I get circulating cancer stem cells by RGCC International. And a physician has to, I mean, physician has to order that. The grail test, I don't think you, I don't know how you do a grail test. Often a physician will have to order it. Okay. Yeah, often a physician will have to order it. There are some direct-to-consumer companies that are out there. that are trying to make it available and then they have licensed physicians in each state. No affiliation, but there's a company called Function Health that I know that puts it as part of

their package. Right. But still a physician has to sign off on order. Right. I think the biggest thing, though, is you have to be prepared for the result. Right. You know, because I did it. And for me, then it came back positive.

And so you're like, okay, wow, now what? And so you have to have the same, the mindset, you know, like Den did. Okay. All right. now I'm going to do something about this. And whether it's, you know, making different lifestyle choices, reduce your stress, you know, meditate more, spend time with doing the things that you enjoy. What else do I have to do to try to get my body healthy?

And so for us, we think that trying to improve your mitochondrial function, number of mitochondria is really important. How do we change that microenvironment? And you can do it with different ways. Exercise is one. the phosphoglyphalypidids, we think that's really important. And so I think you just have to be prepared for what if I do get a positive result? And am I mentally equipped to deal with that?

And do I have somebody that I can go to that's going to help me then figure out how to improve my microenvironment, you know, my mental health? And so like you were saying, you know, with your mom, you have that point person. that can help you. And early on, Michelle is just like everyone else. First, you go into denial, right? Because we kind of knew that she had, well, we knew she had malignant melanoma because she'd had that surgically removed 20 years before.

But then we do the oncoblot and it says that she has ovarian cancer. So we're like, we want to run the MD Anderson and we could easily find someone to say, oh, no, no, don't worry about that. And so that's the challenge. everyone goes through anger, denial, you know, all these things because it's traumatic. I mean, it's the big C word, cancer. Now what do you do with it? And these companies, they just do the testing, but then they're like, good luck.

Good luck. And so, you know, then you need people like us that know what to do. And we started, we didn't know what to do. You know, we were playing around with this, that, and the other thing. And there's many, many ways. and it's much easier to keep cancer under control and prevent a recurrence. I mean, there's a lot, a lot, a lot of ways. And for instance, someone about six years ago, major league baseball player,

been in the major leagues for 30 years. He had all the resources in the world. He had prostate removed tears. And they says, 100% it's not coming back. We robotically removed it. You're good to go. Well, two years later, is PSA shooting up like a rocket. And so they wanted to do chemo radiation, but they couldn't see it.

They just knew that his PSA shooting up. So the answer, standard of care was full body radiation chemo. Well, he's smart enough. No, that's not going to turn out well for me. And so he contacted me and says, hey, I'll give you six weeks. If you can turn it around, you know, I'm with you. If not, I'm going to go this other way. Anyway, in six weeks, we turned it around.

And it was zero point something. Using the C-Free protocol or something else? No, no, no. So we've played with so many things. And there's a lot of things that you can do. And all of these things that are, people talk about resveratrol, curcumin, all these natural substances.

There's hundreds of them. And they do inhibit cancer for a minute. But what we found out is cancer is so tricky. We can measure phenotypes and genotypes. And as soon as you introduce something that metabolically will block a tumor pathway, just like chemo, but not as potent and without side effect. The cancer, within a few months, will go around it. And we didn't know that at the time. It finds a new pathway. It finds a new pathway. And so metabolically, it'll just change a little

bit, and then you'll get these mutations that don't rely on that pathway anymore. It's just like, you know, some cancers are dependent on hormones, you know, estrogen, progester, whatever. You block them and again, or even prostate cancer blocking testosterone, now we know that's a losing battle. Again, it works for a minute, but it'll go around it and then come back more aggressive. So we started doing that. You know, it's easy to find things that will inhibit it.

But then we affectionately call that whack-a-mole. So as soon as we hit it over here, a pop-up over here, and long-term, that isn't it. So what you really have to do, and everyone's looking to, they want to do exactly what they're doing with their bad lifestyle, but get a new outcome. It ain't working. So you really have to go back and change all the things that you can change and make yourself with healthy as possible. So like right now, Michelle, in the last year, we've run circulating cancer stem cells three or four times. And it's not inexpensive.

It's about $1,000 a throw. So, you know, people, we do it for example. experimental reasons, but so we experiment with Michelle and just a simple thing of grounding. So that people can read about grounding or earthing. That does things to the way your blood flow, real low formation in your blood, lowers cortisol, better sleep, lowers glucose. It's so easy. That works.

I mean, you can see a noticeable change in circulating cancer stem cells. and we don't have her playing video games. So there's these easy lifestyle changes that you can make. We could go on and out. And that's part of we're investigating all these different things. And we're trying to find the easiest thing so people don't have a recurrence. The other thing, we use a hair analysis, and we can pick out supplements that will balance her autonomic nervous system. So that's a big word, autonomic nervous system.

And what is that? People have these fit bits and different things. And it's called heart rate variability. Again, all these really neat gadgets and you get a heart rate variability. You know how many hours you sleep. But then you don't know how to fix it. And so we found companies that you can do a hair analysis, take the supplements. It will balance your autonomic nervous system. And so that's the balance, you know, between stress and, you know, Back to stress. Parasympathetic systems. So we're just balancing that out. And Michelle, circulating cancer stem cells has been as low as ever. And we're doing almost nothing. We're investigating microcurrent, pulse electromagnetic field, frequencies. Nothing's off the table for us.

You know, we're investigating at all. We just want to make it as easy as possible to keep themselves cancer-free because they've got to do this the rest of their life. These circulating cancer stem cells, we didn't know this until, question. Quest nutrition, we noticed that in the dogs that the circulating cancer stem cells were coming back. And we were like, does that happen in humans? And so this is only eight years ago. We didn't know the answer to that. So Quest paid quite a bit of money.

And we were running circulating cancer cells and all these people thought they're cancer-free, 100% of people, they had circulating cancer stem cells are like, oh, we didn't know that. So, I mean, that was a big aha moment for us. And so then there's these 18 million people running around thinking, I'm cancer-free. No, not really. You're only as good as your immune system. And so, yeah, we could help. And that goes back to we need a branch of oncology for those people.

Because the doctors don't know how to keep it under control. And they can easily learn it. Right. And part of it is also, if I'm hearing you correctly, is that there's a lot of different tools that are out there. A lot of them. But they need further investigation to know exactly which ones consistently work for people. Well, and I think it's, if you like to exercise, do that.

And so there's going to be different for each person. And so there's a lot of tools. And you just, whatever you're willing to do and matches your lifestyle, you can do it and make it work. As long as you're watching the circulating cancer stem cells or some equivalent test and seeing that whatever you're doing is driving it down. If you see it's going up like a rocket, you're doing something wrong. You've got to change. And so it's just the monitoring. People just have to know to monitor, but they're not monitoring.

Just like what Daniel's saying is, you know, you just need to try to get as healthy as you can. And so then, you know, you think, oh, you know, I have diabetes, but I'm taking a pill and it's fixing it. Well, have you really, have you really fixed it? And so if you go back where you, you know, if you think that the mitochondrial is the basis for your disease, which a lot of people do think that it's a mitochondrial dysfunction that leads to diabetes and hypertension and all those things. So why aren't we talking about, okay, what can we do to fix our mitochondria? And so people just need help in trying to become as healthy as possible. And it's not just, oh, let me throw a pill at the disease that you have.

I mean, obviously you're going to need those things to try to get your disease state under control. I mean, you know, you're obviously going to need blood pressure pills. you know, pills for your diabetes. But maybe there's more to it than that that you can, you can be adding, you know, to help. Yeah. I want to chime in. So HRF, we've not only addressed cancer, we've addressed heart disease and Alzheimer's and type 2 diabetes. And so we had a person, it was a friend of ours. And way back quite a few years ago, I tested him and he had, well, he had heart disease, and he had a high lipoprotein little A. Linus Pauling found that out many years ago, and it's associated with heart disease,

very closely associated with heart disease, and this guy's was off the chart high. So anyway, but his cardiologist didn't want to do anything with it. Except keep putting stints in. Yeah, so he just kept putting more and more stents in. And so I kind of lost touch with him for a few years, and I saw on face. he'd had a heart attack. So I contacted him and he was still in the hospital. And I said, told him about HRF and I says, we're going to reverse your heart disease. We're going to reverse your high blood pressure. We're going to reverse your diabetes. And I guess I didn't know the time

he's telling his wife, Dr. Howard's crazy. And so we knew that he had this high lipoprotein little A. So we advocated for him. We got him into a trial for Repatha, which lowers lipoprotein little A. And so the medical establishment wasn't really interested in lipoprotein little A until we had drugs, pharmaceutical drugs that would lower it. When we had that, then it was, bam, we got to test everyone. And so it was the same science. So that gets into evidence-based medicine versus standard of care. Standard of care is just whatever's paid for by insurance. People think that that's evidence and anything else is not evidence-based. Well, the lipoprotein little A, they knew about it. All this, time and it wasn't until rapatha and the similar drugs anyway so we get enrolled this David Daniel

so David we talked to him yesterday by the way because we'd lost contact with him for a minute and so we get him enrolled in a study and so we're hoping he's getting rapatha but Daniel's just coached him on the diet and so the pictures are just crazy he was a big guy we slimmed him down and his doctor told him type 2 diabetes is genetic. You can never get rid of that. And so we're like, no, no, no. He says, well, my doctor's right here and telling me that. I says, well, let's just see in a few months.

So now, no longer diabetic. We took about 60 pounds off the guy, quit getting stents every few months. And so we're like, wow, was it the rapatha? Or did we do that with all of our, you know, making him healthier? And we found out just yesterday, we found out he was on the placebo. Well, he never got Repaphta. So it was what we did. And so, but yeah, you don't know, no doctors ever contacted us.

Hey, what are you doing with this guy? You know, but we just do our thing. And just made him healthy and his heart disease become under control. And now we're going to introduce another thing to him that's even more cutting edge. Again, paid for by insurance, but not, doesn't make much money. No one really cares much about it. And it's this external counterpulsation. You put these things on the person's legs, revascular your heart in seven weeks.

And so if anyone has heart disease, look at EECP. The science is great. But no one's really going to talk to you about it because there's no money in it. I mean, it's paid for, insurance will pay for it, but someone's got to tell you about it. Right. Somebody's got to tell you about it. There has to be knowledge. There has to be awareness.

There has to be incentive. And I remember in our last conversation, Daniel and Dr. Gregory, you, wrote this as well too inside of your note in sort of preparation of the podcast, you both had mentioned that if there's going to be a better way, which we know there can be a better way, but if there's going to be a better way that scales, it's going to have to be a way that's actually more profitable for people that are out there. Otherwise, there's no incentive to get more people participating and creating different solutions that are there. Do you want to expand on that a little bit? Yeah, in fact, this is sort of riffing on something that Dr. Seafre says because he gets asked this very question, well, you know, if this is also great, why hasn't it scaled?

Right. And his retort to that as well, there's going to be an entrepreneur that figures this out. In other words, that figures out how to make an economic model that services a population that's interested in pursuing metabolic therapies and at the same time is profitable for shareholders, investors, and, and principal architects of any given enterprise. That's definitely something that, you know, we put a lot of mindshare in, and it's an exploration that is ongoing. Because, you know, to go back to something that we touched on more towards the beginning, having a place for people to land where the entire landscape of metabolic therapies is all under one roof, all of your diagnostics, all of your, you know,

you just walk out of a clinic with, here's everything you need to eat for the next, week in a bag, do that, right? Here, all your novel substrates in exactly how to time it, and you can come back and ask any questions anytime you want, because there's an entire staff here, just like a normal hospital or clinic, that is here to provide that service. I think that that will be something that's forthcoming for two reasons. I think the primary reason is the one that Dr. Howard mentioned earlier, which is because metabolic therapies are, A, effective, and B, orders of magnitude cheaper than the standard of care, whether you're talking about cardiac disease, neurocognitive decline, obesity, diabetes, cancer, that inventive and intrepid entrepreneurs

are going to look at that and go, okay, there's an opportunity there. In other words, there's a target there that really no one else is shooting it. And so I see that, you know, as something that probably will manifest in the next five to ten years at some scale. right now there's pockets of it here and there but it's not particularly well developed you know maybe the the the the minds at pre-newvo who've already done this for imaging uh we'll look at this and go aha there's something here we're good at franchises let's make a franchise well it's an exciting time because you know as you mentioned earlier dr howard that it's not like sure there's context that the metabolic therapy, as is related to cancer, the C-free protocol that Dan, you followed,

that's specifically for cancer, right? But there are themes inside of there that are going to be supportive for somebody's heart health or metabolic health. An area that, you know, I'm also very excited about is that I've had on the podcast, Dr. Chris Palmer. And he is one of the leading researchers and advocates for metabolic therapy for psychiatric intervention. And he's at McLean hospital, the number one psychiatric hospital in the country. And he wrote a book called Brain Energy. Very similar to the Seafreed protocol, it's presented as a theory, right? He may have. Seafreid would have more evidence in the mice. But Dr. Chris Palmer says this is presented a theory, even though I have, you know, tons of case studies of individuals who have gone on largely a modified ketogenic diet

and other mitochondrial repair processes. And interestingly enough, I was on Twitter one day and I ran into a young woman who had shared that she had gone on Dr. Chris Palmer's protocol and had put into, these are her words, put into remission her bipolar one disorder that she had been diagnosed with. And she had recurrences on and off of

and tried medication and it wasn't it worked initially but then it was severely impacting her life and she started to put her story out there and one of the groups that reached out to her again just going back to this idea of like you never know who's listening was um the family that started the software company that's a yeah it's a game not a stressful game that a lot of young people play called roadblocks and that family had gotten into that uh had used a lot of their wealth because their own son had been diagnosed with, I believe it was schizophrenia. And they had heard of Dr. Palma's work and they had seen that, oh, metabolic therapies could be helpful for putting into, you know, remission or severely improving their son's psychiatric condition. And it did. And they got

really excited and they created this group and this foundation called the Metamolic Mind. So you never know who's listening. You never know how information gets out there. And you never know what's possible when a group of people come together and say, we're in this perfect storm where so many people are getting unhealthy. It's getting worse. And if it continues at this stage, we will eventually run out of money to be able to treat everybody using the standard of care. And then what are we going to do? So there has to be a different approach. And there has to be a different way to go back to things. So Michelle and I years ago, almost 15, 20 years ago, a psychiatrist asked us to get involved with electroconvulsive therapy.

And, you know, we weren't that interested. And it requires anesthesia. And we're anesthesiologist. He said, come on. I don't know. I didn't really want to get involved. It seemed pretty controversial at the time. And then I asked him a simple question.

I said, so these people don't make a neurotransmitter. And he said, yeah. So you give them a pill. So it makes them make a neurotransmitter. Yeah. I said, why don't they make a nerd? Why don't they make their own? He goes, I don't know.

I said, all right, now I'm in. I says, I'm your guy. I'm going to do anesthesia. And I says, before we're done, I'm going to figure out why treatment-resistant depression. So 30% of the people that are on an antipress that doesn't work. I'm going to figure that out. So we took 200 patients, $5,000 worth of labs on 200 patients just to see what would happen. All kinds of inflammatory markers, this, that, and the other thing, genetic markers, everything that people have postulated.

Vitamin D. but $5,000 worth of labs on 200 people. And what hit was inflammation. Off the chart, 98% was inflammation. So I'm like, wow, what does inflammation do to the blood, cerebral blood flow? And so within hours, I kind of knew the answer. So the answer was this high inflammation clumped up the blood, and you can see that on a peripheral smear.

Put blood under microscope, and it'll clump real quick. So I'm like, wow, this is kind of an interesting question. what is the cerebral blood flow on someone with depression, bipolar, or all types of mental illness? And their cerebral blood flow has decreased 30%, 30% decreased blood flow, but certain areas of the brain. So I'm like, wow. So I was a pharmacist before I went to medical school. I'm like, I think a magnesium infusion is going to work. And so then I looked, magnesium was already in their literature.

In fact, the early studies on magnesium was are better than any antidepressant out there. So I'm like, well, let's just combine electroconvulsive therapy with a magnesium infusion. It worked. So now we've done roughly 70,000 treatments. And it's being done at Springstone hospitals. It's a franchise of psychiatric hospitals. But we started that at one and then it moved to others. And so again, it's just.

all about reimbursement. So the best thing would be for mental illness would be cheaply a magnesium infusion, but there's zero reimbursement for magnesium infusion. But going back to what you were saying about diet, though, and that would relate to the inflammation. And so, ketogenic diet is going to reduce inflammation. Your blood will be less sticky. It's going to refuse the areas that need to be producing these neurotransmitters. And so... And of those 200 patients... probably was public treatment. We work backwards like an internal medicine doctor should and said, why do they have this inflammation? So we found everything from autoimmune disease that would be rheumatoid arthritis, chogranes.

And so simple blood tests. A lot of people with bad teeth. Cold problems, few cancers. And so we work backwards and we could figure it out. But there's no real reimbursement for this. investigative field of medicine. But it could be done again. But the real money and the hospitals and everyone involved, they wanted to do the procedure, which was the electroconvulsive therapy. But when we combine it with magnesium infusion, that's when it really worked.

Yeah. I think the reimbursement and a changing way that health care is practiced in this, you know, country especially is going to be a big part of, you know, setting up different possibilities. And most likely, as you mentioned, Daniel, it's going to happen through, you know, a combination of, you know, traditional health care and some entrepreneurial spirit of people coming up with other solutions that are there. Yeah. As we are winding down here on time in our podcast together, I wanted to use our last bit of time that we have here to talk about sort of thoughts of what this journey, not just. Den's story, but bringing it back to cancer, you know, which is why probably a lot of people here are listening. So in addition to Den's story, the multitude of people that you've gotten a chance to work with, if somebody's listening today who, like many individuals who came across my first

C-free interview, they are concerned about one day getting cancer, what are your recommendations for that individual who's listening. And then we're going to talk to leaving some recommendations and action items for somebody who has a diagnosis or has a family member that has a diagnosis. So maybe, Daniel, if you want to kick us off for somebody who's wanting to be proactive, a few things that are there that you want to leave them with action items wise when it comes to limiting their likelihood of developing this in the first pace or at least getting a chance to catch it early.

Yeah. I mean, I'll go back to the prior statement on this, where we touched a little bit on this, is to really start with Seafreid's book. And the reason I would offer that as a point of departure is because, firstly, it's written in a very loy style, right? So evidence is presented, evidence is supported, evidence is recapitulated, right? So one of the things that's so important about that is that this is a form of scientific literacy. But not everyone is exposed to, like we're not all necessarily exposed to that, say, in eighth grade, right? So beginning to develop the skill to think rationally is very important because that puts you in a very different position when it comes to evaluating any consideration. So that is implicit in Seaford's book.

Additionally, I think what's important about it is there's a lot of answers to why questions. Well, why does this work the way it work? is the mechanism of action? How can I have confidence that this is a real finding? Where is the supporting evidence? All of those things are gone through in literally eye-watering detail. And so just by virtue of putting oneself through that experience, it focuses the mind, it sharpens the mind, and it also offers people a level of insight into medicine and scientific practice that is par excellence. So it changes how you think about and evaluate any other piece of information you come across. That's great. Yeah. I love that. Dan, I want to get a

chance to ask you the same question, you know, for somebody that is from just everything that you've seen. Sure. And also having a few preexisting conditions, even prior to your cancer, is there a message you want to leave some of the audience members who are trying to avoid being in this situation in the first place, just from everything that you've come across, your own reading, and your familiarity with Seafreid's work. So this is for people who are trying to avoid cancer in the future. Yeah, I think one of the doctors, Howard mentioned this earlier. We now know that the science is fairly definitive. It's clear.

Cancer is, it's a problem of mitochondrial function. And so if you poison your mitochondria in any of a number of ways that you can by overconsuming fructose or overconsuming alcohol or allowing yourself to get overweight or eating a high carbohydrate diet, not protecting your mitochondria, you're putting yourself at risk. You can look at the other side of that coin, which is what I'm going to recommend, which is protect your mitochondria. do things to improve the size, the efficiency, and the number of mitochondria you have. And there are any number of things to do that. Cold water exposure, hyperbaric oxygen, phospholipids, any number of things you can do. It's easy to find. Resistance training.

It probably has the most amount of literature around its protective aspect of cancer. And so protect your mitochondria, build your mitochondria. if that was your primary focus, I think you could feel fairly, fairly confident that you'd be as prophylactically protected as you could be. Great. Gregory, you want to chime in and then, Michelle? Yeah. So I'll put a plug in for a company.

We've got no financial interest in nutritional therapeutics. That's their products are based on the research of Garth Nicholson. to fix mitochondria. And he coined the term I mentioned before, membrane lipid replacement therapy. I think everyone, in his studies, there's 20-some studies on, he definitively showed that if you improve mitochondria function,

it'll help with pain, chronic fatigue, mental clarity, just everything, just human performance. So we all, and that's just one product. There's similar products out there. I'm just more familiar with that. It's a supplement? It's a supplement. Pills. Pills are powder. Take it. And so the studies were all, you take it for a couple of months,

fix your mitochondria, and then probably just the wear and tear of living, you probably ought to do that a couple of times a year and to fix your mitochondria. And that's membrane lipid replacement therapy with some sort of phospholipid. Phospholipids are phosphatilcholcone, phosphatil syrin. You can get a hold of those very inexpensively, but, will they actually get to where they're supposed to go. I worked on that several years. I had that questions. I think, man, maybe that's a fault in the youth. If we could fix a mitochondria. And I really spent a lot of time and money. And then I stumbled on, this guy, Garth Nicholson, had already done it. I'm like, unbelievable. I wasted all this time. And he has clinical evidence.

Yeah. He's done research trials. He's got 22 studies on it. And they're published. I'm like, oh, geez, I just wasted like years. And so I call him up, congratulate him. And he's a older guy. And anyway, so, you know, that's something that I think everyone should investigate some phospholipid that fix your mitochondria. And then if you don't want to get cancer, you probably ought to be every year or two get a grail test or a similar test. And there's always a new test coming up. That's just the one that's on my thought right now. But in cancer, way back to the, we mentioned the Ancoblot test, James Morey, he showed that typically takes four to ten years. years for a liquid biopsy. You can pick it up four to 10 years before you'd get a lump or a bump

that would pick up on the most sensitive test. So find one of these tests like the Grail test or another one. Get it every year if you can afford it every couple years and you're way ahead of the curve. And if you find it, then you're going to reach out to an HRF, a functional medicine doctor, and they can help you keep that under control and then you'll never get clinical disease. Great. Michelle, do you want to chime in? I think, It's just that I think there are things that are out there and you just have to be prepared. You might have to look and just to educate yourself on grounding or the phospholoclycolipids. And don't be afraid of what the results are from the tests if you choose to get the test

because there is something you can do about it. You can be proactive. And just like Den did is you can take charge of your own health. And you don't have to be afraid. That's great. I'll just throw in a plug, as I know everybody would probably agree. And if you don't, cut me off and jump in with your own thoughts. You know, a lot of the new innovative things get a lot of attention for good reasons, right? And a lot of the fun things. And I'm a fan of grounding. You know, I like to combine. I like habit stacking. I'll do my grounding with a little bit of morning sunlight or evening sunlight, kind of get it all together. And we should never overlook the basics of, you know, regular good sleep, resistance training, which most people are not doing any aspects of. of fundamental aspects of core metabolic health, making sure that we try to keep our, you know, A1C, glucose, fasting insulin in a good range, and, of course, a supportive community,

whether that's a, you know, a church that you're part of or a friend group or a tribe, and how protective those aspects and, you know, relationships can have. And then the last one I'd add in is we've done a few episodes on the importance of just minimizing our just total toxic burden. and from all the products, the chemicals that are in the environment, those are all very straightforward things that we can get a chance to do and are foundational that we can combine all those things together. So I just wanted to give a little shout out to that.

Lastly, as we end off over here, just any kind of final words, and especially keeping in mind the individual, knowing the type of audience that finds these episodes, especially on YouTube, is oftenly and unfortunately, somebody who themselves has recently been diagnosed or their own family member and feels like they're just trying to stop their head from spinning, get oriented, get grounded a little bit, find a sense of hope, direction. What do you want to share for that individual who's listening? I'll go in reverse order here.

Dr. Michelle Howard, if you want to chime in first. I think just what Daniel said is you've got to start with Safe Rides book, you know, cancer is a metabolic disease because you've got to educate yourself. And then you can, I think maybe just understand cancer a little bit better because, you know, cancer just, it's just a scary word. And so I think people get a little bit paralyzed by that. But I think knowledge is power. And so if you can get knowledge, then you can start asking the questions. And when people say, oh, you need to do this treatment or that treatment, you could say, okay, tell me more about that. What are the studies that you have that support that?

How is that going to really change my outcome, you know, at one year, two, year, five year, because that's the survival rates that people always talk about. But when you have, when you have knowledge, I think that you can ask better questions. Gregory. Well, and people can call HRF and we'll do our best to get to. to them and a lot of times we ask what part of the country, what part of the world do you in, and we'll know people in different parts of the world that we can get them in contact with,

that know our protocol. And so yeah, give us a shout. Our website, well, you're probably gonna give our website. You can mention it too. M-Y-H-R-F-O-R-G and it's Hippocrates Research Foundation. There's a couple of nonprofit, Hippocrates Research Foundation,

But that's our web address. But give us a shout and we'll help you the best we can. Great. Daniel? Well, I'm tempted to continue because Michelle picked up on the education theme, which I think is fundamental. But something that you, you know, hope is a, it's a dicey term. Please talk about it.

Talk about it. Why? Because false hope is a cruelty, right? wishful thinking, illusory thinking will move one backwards. And so hope that derives from

a deep understanding of facts is appropriate. But hope that stems from wishful thinking will definitively move one backwards. So gaining the perspective, the skill, and the insight

to delineate between those two things is a determinative element of being able to anticipate success. And so taking the time to really think about that as deeply as one can, I think will be very serviceable to a lot of people who are exactly in the position that you just mentioned, I've just got this horrible news. How do I navigate and parse this immense amount of information that's coming at me? It feels like you're drinking from a fire hose, right? How do I get to a place where I can very methodically eat the elephant one bite at a time, as they say, and get to a place where one has a very high degree of confidence that's based on a deep body of research and self-education?

So that ties back in with Michelle. Yeah. No, thank you for adding in. I hope that today with us going as deep as we've gone, almost three hours now. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, my hope and goal for the conversation was as much as possible within that time period,

be as real about the difficulties. You, you said it more succinctly than I did. Just be real. Be real. Keep it real. Can't keep it if it ain't real. Dan, you want to chime in? Yeah, sure.

I think I'm just going to kind of further jam on this a little bit with a little nuance. As somebody who got one of these diagnosis and found myself searching the tomes of YouTube for information and insight and hope and knowledge, it's very difficult to parse truth from fiction. And there's reason for that beyond the fact that, you know, science is not always easy to understand and we're not always trained for it. We're at a inflection point, a sort of an overlapping point in history right now, where an enormous group of people, doctors and oncologists, still live in a world where they believe that cancer is a genetic disease, where another group of people have realized and proven and shown with exhaustive studies and research that it is, in fact, a disease of mitochondrial dysfunction. And though that is the good news that we now know that, that we live in this

overlapping inflection point is also the bad news, because you're going to go out there, you're going to watch a podcast like this and you're going to learn the information we're telling you and you're going to go and read Seafried's book or paper or watches videos. But you're also going to come across an enormous amount of information that literally says the opposite or that deters you from doing that. And so I, I, I hope that a video like this and a story like mine and the stories that you've heard from the doctors Howard and from Daniel can help to point you in a direction that is going to deliver you to a place where you can access truth and not be duped.

This type of media is incredibly important specifically for that end. Understand I live in a world where we understand. understand what cancer is, and we've been able to apply that science to therapies that can resolve it. And all you need to do is to read that science to join us. And in the future, everyone will be using metabolic therapies. Cancer will not be the horrible death sentence and the terrible tragedy that it has been for the last, however many hundreds of years. and we're just happy to be a part of making that happen. But you need to understand that it's going to be confusing out there

as you read and look and hear what people are telling you to do. But please, if my story can be anything, let it be proof that Thomas Seafried is right, that metabolic therapies work, and that, yeah, the outcomes that you're staring down the barrel of don't have to be the way it is. Well, I want to thank everybody here for joining on the podcast today. And it was truly an honor to try to do my best job to at least host and bring out the incredible information.

Dan, of course, first with your incredible story that you shared with me and reaching out to us, I really appreciate that. And then getting a chance to connect me with Daniel and Daniel, you sharing about the background, all the incredible work that you guys had done first with dogs and then the case studies of human beings and the role that you want to play in this. larger community of helping people understand and see the bricks by bricks and the case studies that you're putting out there. And doctors Gregory and Michelle Howard sharing both your individual story and journey with cancer as well as what the new frontier will have to look like if we're

going to get to a place where these modalities are more accessible. It's been a tremendous pleasure to have you all here and getting a chance to host this conversation. So thank you all. And we'll make sure that we have all the links for your websites and the recommended books and different therapeutics that were mentioned below. And your blog, if people want to check it out. Yeah, great, self-rescuesociety.org. Yeah, we'll have all those links in the show notes. Thank you all so much for being part of the conversation.

Thank you. Tremendous. Thanks. Hi, everyone, Drew here. Two quick things. Number one, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you haven't already, subscribe, just hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. And by the way, if you love this episode, it would mean the world to me.

And it's the number one thing that you can do to support. this podcast is share with a friend, share with a friend who would benefit from listening. Number two, before I go, I just had to tell you about something that I've been working on that I'm super excited about. It's my weekly newsletter, and it's called Try This. Every Friday, yes, every Friday, 52 weeks a year, I send out an easy-to-digest protocol of simple steps that you or anyone you love can follow to optimize your own health. We cover everything from nutrition to mindset to metabolic health, sleep, community, longevity, and so much more. If you want to get on this email list, which is, by the way, free and get my weekly step-by-step

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