Dhru Purohit Show - Are You Sabotaging Your Romantic Relationships? What You Need to Know to Build the Marriage and Relationship of Your Dreams with Lindsay Roth

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

This episode is brought to you by Blueland, Fatty15, and Ollie. When it comes to happiness in relationships, we often overlook the daily effort and tools needed for true intimacy. Instead, we focus on the romanticized end result, without fully understanding what it takes to create lasting success. Today’s guest is here to dispel common myths and share the key questions and practical tools that can help us build stronger, happier relationships. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, Dhru sits down with his good friend and author Lindsay Roth to explore the key ingredients of strong, lasting relationships. Lindsay shares the journey that led her to write a book on relationships, the top things that destroy them, and the simple yet powerful questions you can ask to strengthen your connection with your partner. She also explains how rituals and routines can deepen intimacy and why scheduling intimacy can actually relieve stress and pressure in a relationship. Dhru also reflects on the lessons he's learned about maintaining open communication and vulnerability in his own relationship. If you’re looking to reignite and recharge your relationship, this conversation is for you! Lindsay Jill Roth is an award-winning television and live-events producer who has created and developed a wide variety of programming globally, including original content for NBC, BET, ESPN, Food Network, Billboard, The Masters, The Grammys, The Tonys, and the US Open. She is the former producer of Emmy-nominated Larry King Now and the creator and executive producer of Haylie Duff’s Real Girl’s Kitchen. She is also the author of the novel What Pretty Girls Are Made Of.  In this episode, Dhru and Lindsay dive into: What actually makes us happy? (00:25) Being proactive in relationships (05:07) The top thing that destroys a relationship (13:26) How to improve your relationship (16:56) The power of routines and rituals (25:57) Asking intentional questions to strengthen connection (29:20)   The origin story of Lindsay's book (41:20) Showcasing strengths, fostering belonging, and confronting weaknesses (52:36) Understanding how you argue and apologize meaningfully (56:54) Intimacy—discussing and scheduling sex (01:11:18) Routines to deepen intimacy between partners (01:15:30) Final thoughts (01:26:50) Also mentioned in this episode: Romances & Practicalities: Lindsay’s Book For more on Lindsay, follow her on Instagram, LinkedIn, and her Website. This episode is brought to you by Blueland, Fatty15, and Ollie. Get a clean home while keeping a clean planet with Blueland. Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.com/dhru.  Fatty15 is offering an additional 15% off its 90-day subscription Starter Kit. Go to fatty15.com/dhru and use code DHRU to replenish your C15 levels for long-term health. Want to give your dog the best in clean eating? Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Right now, Ollie is offering 60% off your first box of meals when you subscribe today! Just head to Ollie.com, use the code DHRU and you’ll get 60% off your first box of meals in your subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lindsay, welcome to the podcast. I want to read you a pretty wild headline and article from MSNBC from 2023. Okay, bring it on. Okay, title. An 85-year Harvard study found the number one thing that makes us happy in life and it helps us live longer. So then the article continues. I'm going to read this and I want to get your reaction to this. So backstory, in 1938, Harvard researchers embarked on a decades-long study to find out

what actually makes us happy in life. The researchers gathered health records from 725 participants from all over the world and asked detailed questions about their lives at two-year intervals. Contrary to what you might think, audience, it's not career achievement. It's not money. It's not exercise or a healthy diet, although I'm a fan of those things. The most consistent finding over this 85-year Harvard study, one of the longest running studies in the history of America and the world,

the most consistent finding they learned was positive relationships, keep us happier, healthier, and help us live longer, period. What do you have to say about that? I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. I just wrote a book on how to achieve healthy, lasting love. And I spoke with many experts, many couples, many people. who have all validated this fact that finding people that you're comfortable with and happy with

and you feel your authentic self with, that's what makes you happy. It goes back to that, you know, when you see people's tombstones, do you write your work title on your tombstone? No, you write about your spouse or your family or the life that you lived. That's what's important. You know, I want to be one of those people in life. I want to be married for like 65 years and I want someone to ask me what the secret to my healthy, happy, long life is.

And I want to be able to answer that it's positive relationships and ice cream. You might not approve of the ice cream thing. Hey, I'm all about ice cream. If you tolerate dairy, go to town. Maybe just make it grass-fed dairy when you can. Yeah, of course. Actually, whatever high-end ice cream keeps us alive. But I one million percent believe that headline.

Well, you know, just a quick thing before we go to our questions here, the book is out. It's called Romances and Practicalities. If you're watching on YouTube, I'm holding it in front of me right over here. It's such a pretty cover. Such a beautiful cover. And subtitle, a love story, maybe yours, in 250 questions. And that key, at the end of that subtitle, 250 questions, anybody who's been a fan of this podcast and who's been listening along my journey knows that I'm a huge fan of asking questions to bring us closer.

I have a men's group where every week we meet on Thursdays. We call it man morning Thursday. We've been doing it for 10 years. I've known about it for 10 years. Yes, you have. We've been friends for a long time. A long time. And we kick it off with a person who's a captain who asks a question.

And the question is designed to create a sense of intimacy and opening, especially for men who don't always open up or aren't always told that they can open up about real stuff that they're dealing with in life. And it's been one of the most favorite things that I've had. another area, which coming back to this book, is it's been a huge foundation of me and my wife's relationship. And we're honored to have a little cameo in the book. It's an amazing cameo. You guys were so much fun to talk to about this. Well, I don't talk a lot about my relationship with my wife here besides shouting out,

you know, and talking about how amazing she is and some of the health protocols she tries. But if you're interested and you're curious and been following this podcast since it launched in 2018, we're going to share some more details about three things. in particular that my wife and I do to build connection and to build romance, but also within the standpoint of romance is not just this big love story. It's also this practical thing that you do on a regular basis. Well, the practicals are what enhance your romance. I know we'll get more into that, but that is the thesis of this book. Well, I want to start off with one thing because I love to deliver value right away. You know, one of the core through lines of this book is that,

communication and practicing communication is a key part of what brings anybody together. So whether you're single, whether you're in a relationship, whether you want to use some of these questions even to connect with your kids, your coworkers, well, some of them are not appropriate for coworkers. We'll get to that in a second. But anybody in your life that you care of, that questions are appropriate for that relationship, communication and practicing that communication is what allows for that deepening of the relationship.

And I like to talk about the opposite of things. To me, the opposite is for a lot of people, especially the Disneyification of romantic relationships, is that it'll just happen. I hate that. Talk to us about why that mentality is so toxic. That means that you're taking a backseat in your life. And you're letting things happen to you that you're not either putting out energy for or taking control of. Drew, it is 2025.

I really want to change the landscape. of how we put ourselves out there in the world, whether it's in business relationships, but here in romantic relationships, nothing should just happen to you. You should look at yourself, ask yourself questions. That's the first thing, right? The first thing is looking to yourself and saying, who am I? Who do I want to be? What works for me?

What are my deal breakers? There are questions in here to help you do that. But if you just let the world happen, then you're taking a backseat to the world. And who wants to be in the backseat their whole lot? You know, last year, our most popular interview that we had was with a world expert on narcissism. I believe that. It completely shocked me because that's not a topic we talk about. But the reason we talked about it is because, and we talked about this 85-year running study,

we said, okay, if the key to happiness and true connection and joy in life is healthy relationships, then that means that the toxic people that we surround ourselves in life with, and chronically surround herself in life with. Some people might be married to that person and be in a situation where they don't feel that they can leave. Those take years from our life. And she said it's the most under-talked-about aspect that's damaging our health.

And it was a beautiful episode. I bet. The only challenge was, and that's my hope for our audience, is that we can continue the challenge, is that we didn't give, okay, we talked a lot about what was bad, who to avoid,

how to identify a narcissist, the true toll that it takes on your life. But we didn't give hope for the next aspect. And that's really what this conversation is, is how do you use conversations? We're all going to meet so many people in our life, people being married again, people deepening a relationship that maybe has fallen off track a little bit,

which that's the number one person that I've been recommending this book to, is people who are actually already in a relationship. For sure. Who need a reconnectioning, a rekindling. but we need a roadmap and we need tools to be able to do that. That's what I see this book is doing. I want to add years to people's lives, right? I want to help them find that healthy relationship.

Relationships are great. Healthy relationships are superior to anything else. And you know what? You can do the work at the beginning of your relationship to make sure that you are finding that healthy relationship, that you're not in that situation. If you take things like questions and conversation and you engage with someone that you care about right from the beginning, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of healthy conversation and happiness and positivity in your relationship.

I mean, you're with your men's group 10 years. Have you ever run out of things to ask or things to talk about? No. No. We have too many questions. Right? But you set a foundation early on with this group of people to allow people. to allow people to feel safe.

And once you do that by opening yourselves up to each other, you can keep doing that. And that's the key. The key is to it's not about the sex that you have right away. It's about the intimacy that you have right away. And intimacy doesn't just come from physical touch. It comes from proper communication. Proper communication comes from understanding first and foremost how you communicate. What do you feel are, before we get in your story and we talk about some of these sample

questions. What are some of the worst things that you see happening, whether somebody is about to start a relationship or whether somebody's in a relationship, which I imagine a lot of my audience would relate to the latter. They're in a relationship right now. What are some of the worst and most damaging things people are doing bad habits, et cetera, communication wise? There's one. That are totally wrecking their relationship and their sense of extracting joy from life. This is pretty crazy. But did you know based on the latest research that it's We're eating and drinking about a credit card's worth of plastic each week. Yes, you heard that right.

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Fatty 15 is seriously on a mission to replenish your C-15 levels and restore your body's long-term help. And through today's promo code, you can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription starter kit by going to fatty 15.com slash D-H-R-U. That's Fattie F-A-T-T-Y-15.com slash Drew and use the code Drew at checkout. Number one, this is top, top, top, top, top. Nothing competes with us. Not listening to the person that you're with. People show you who they are. people tell you who they are, but you have to listen to them. And if you're not listening to them, then you have to engage them to get them in a conversation to listen to them. But actually, people really do show you who they are from early on. And I think our lives get in the way

and we want for certain things. Let's say you are the one who's walked down everybody else's aisle in so many other weddings. And all you want is your aisle, right? You and I have known each other since before we were married, since the single days. We both had our moments of wanting to find that other person. Sometimes you get blinded by what that want is versus who the person is in front of you. And I'm telling you, listen to that person because life is long. And if you're not happy or you're not yourself, then you have to find someone else. So here's another question behind the question is, what do you think drives that, that need that we have to want to fall? in love with a story or a projection instead of accepting somebody for who they are and really listening

to how they're coming across. I think there are so many verticals I can answer your question. You mentioned Disney romance, right? I think there is that theory of Disney romance. There are social media romances where you see what people have and you think that's what exists, but we don't know what goes on behind the camera, right? So there's that. Then there's this societal pressure of the only way to live your life is to be married. This book is not how to get married. Okay. So let's get that right out from the beginning. This is about healthy love. And whatever healthy love looks like to you, whether it's marriage, living together, living separately, being engaged, just a partnership, whatever works for you is okay as long as there's communication

behind it. So I think there's those pressures. Look, God knows I had family members saying, when are you getting married? When are you getting married? And then once you're married, when are you having a kid? When are you having a kid? Then you have a kid. When's your next kid coming? So there's always something driving what our perceptions are. And I want people to get focused on who they are and what they want. And if you have these voices in your head, a family member saying to you, you should be married or you should do this, you can want that too. But understand if it's coming from you or it's coming from them. Be honest with yourself.

Going back to people that are in relationships, you know, one thing that a lot of people find themselves in, and they often struggle with, I don't know exactly how I got here. Yep. How could we have never talked about this? It's something that I hear all the time

when people pick up this book. Yeah. And it's almost like the first feeling that I see is there feels like disconnection, there feels like separation. And then you come across maybe some of these questions, in this book or at least the concept or the idea. And you're like, what have we been doing? We haven't

talked about it. So for anybody who's finding themselves in that situation that, hey, listen, I'm not in a bad relationship. No, but it could be better. It could be better, but there's some disconnection. We're not really there. What is your suggestion and recommendation for them? How do they start from this moment here? Yep. I go straight to routines and rituals. So for example, I know you have them with Yasmin. It's really important, actually. So every night when my husband and I get into bed, okay, all your dirty minds out there, like don't go straight to that point. We get into bed, we snuggle up, we share an iPad, and we do the New York Times crossword puzzle, we do strands, we do a whole bunch of games together. So we're using our minds, we're keeping our minds

healthy and we do these games together. Quick question. Answer. Do you have your blue light blocking glasses on as well while you're doing it? So it's so funny because you talk about this all the time and my husband falls asleep in about 30 seconds so he doesn't need them, but I definitely need them. I need some of your turn off the light rituals and I listen to you talk about this and I know you and I really do when you recommend a product I'm always like bye, bye, bye, because I trust

you with my everything, but that's one that I do need to do. Okay, back to the story. Back to the rituals. I'm not sure you guys in bed. So it's a nightly thing. You're standing there. You have the iPad. Yep.

Does he ever struggle to stay up during that time? No, actually. So this is what's interesting. So I like to go to bed earlier than he does. And he works a lot. And he's a very present husband and father, but we're on different schedules sometimes. So what happens is we get into bed. We do our games.

We chitch out a little bit. And then he might go work for two or three hours, two hours. But we have that moment. that moment of connection. And we both really look forward to it. So some nights we don't eat dinner together, but we do reconvene in bed and just have that time together. And then if I'm traveling for work or he's traveling for work or things are particularly busy with our lives, which everyone has, that is something that we can come back to that automatically clicks us back in. So in a way, it's a shortcut, but it's not because we both cherish this so much.

So if you, to your question, if you find, you don't always know that you're distancing as you're distancing, but suddenly you feel distance. You feel it, but you're not sure exactly. Yes. And you kind of feel it happening, but it's almost a train that's left the station, right? Yeah. So come back to the things that make you a couple. Come back to the things that make you, you. And you have to know what those things are. So whether it's cooking together or taking a walk together or saying, we're going to watch this

particular show together. I don't always advocate for just watching a show because unless you interact about it, you're not totally connecting. But go schedule a day date somewhere. Do what makes you feel like you. I had a friend recently who had his second kid and was noticing that there was the natural separation of the things that would be there in his relationship. And you're exhausted on top of it. And you're exhausted and other things. And they were like, okay, you know what? We're going to do date. nights. Now that things are a little bit more settled, we're going to do date nights. Yep. And so they would get to date night on like a Thursday or a Friday, they'd be getting there. They're kind of getting ready. They're both tired a little bit. They get to the restaurant and they're just like,

this doesn't work for us, right? So what did they do? It was great when we didn't have kids and we weren't completely exhausted. They said, what actually, they asked themselves, you were in their head. They asked themselves this question. Yep. What actually, where did we connect the most? Where did we actually find joy? And they realized where they found joy and they found a sense of deep intimacy was they actually loved having a Sunday morning date day. I fully advocate for date days. Yes.

And what they did was they said, what do we love to do together? They're both in the fitness. So they said we would go to a coffee shop together. We'd have coffee, maybe a small bite to eat. Then we would go and do a fitness class together. We would sweat together. And he's like, the feeling that we would both have just. seeing each other working hard, sweating, and like the appreciation of...

Seeing each other from across the room. Seeking each other across the room. Separately but together. Separately but together. Yep. Seeing each other from afar, seeing how lucky they were to like be with each other, admiring each other's bodies and their work ethic and other things. And they would be done.

And then they would go and have a brunch together. And so they changed their nanny situation instead of like a date night to a date day. And just the eroticism that came from that time and connection. Super sexy, right? Right. And it just, you know, he was opening up and sharing like they, they actually felt that deeper connection just by connecting on the things that they love to do. It's so simple.

Well, so here's where they could have gone really wrong. They're sitting at dinner. They are tired. They've gotten dressed up. Maybe they've put on some makeup. Whatever it is, that extra effort, that is real extra effort. If they didn't have a healthy channel of communication, then they both would have slogged through date night after date night after date night. But they felt so comfortable with each other,

comfortable enough to say, I don't feel like this is working for us. Right. So that takes a level of comfortability to burst that bubble, right, that you've built up in your head that this is going to work for us. So they clearly had a base level of connection for them to be able to say, we did this, but it's not working. Let's change it up. So I applaud them for doing that. It wasn't enough. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have a babysitter and it's cold and it's the winter and we just have the babysitter put our kids to bed and we're hiding in our room. The kids don't even know we're home and we're watching a movie. Bedtime is just too much for us to handle after a long week, but we don't want that extra energy of going out to dinner and it's a perfect balance for us. Can I hand you the book and

I'm on the section called routine rituals, hobbies, and travel. And just again, for everybody listening, the reason that this book is truly like a workbook, super practical is that you have 250 questions that are examples inside of here. And you can use them as inspiration to also create your own questions. Yep. And these can be questions that you can use in the beginning of getting to know somebody as Yasmin and I did, many of these types of questions inside of here, or even somebody that you've been in a relationship with for a long time. I hope people in relationships will look to hear. Can you pick a couple that people in relationships, just let's read a couple that you might like that could be a great example.

in the context of this conversation of something that a couple could ask themselves and maybe hasn't touched on before. Today's episode is brought to you by Ali, clean, fresh nutrition your dog needs in five flavors they'll absolutely flip over for. You don't have to be a veterinary nutritionist to know that feeding your dog real, whole foods with minimally processed ingredients, is one of the best choices you can make for their health. A perfectly portion whole food, fresh diet has been proven to extend your pups life by two and a half years. Now, I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want more time with their best friend. Now, I don't have any dogs personally, but I am proudly a dog uncle. My sister has two 11-year-old dogs that I love dearly and take care

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Start your dog's new year off the right way with Ollie. I want to say before I pick these questions out, we keep saying there's 250 questions. Please don't be scared by 250 questions. These are in all types and walks of life, right, from sex to money to kids to weddings, all of these things. So when you hear 250 questions, don't be scared. I promise you when you do these, they are super sexy. And you might be putting this book down to go upstairs and have some sex because it happens.

And it happens more than you think. So here's an important one from the routines and rituals chapter that I think is actually very important if you're in a relationship. So question 233. Is it okay if I participate in some of your? rituals and routines, but not all. I like this question because sometimes people want alone time. And sometimes people are afraid to ask. Right. So sometimes people like they need to go, they need to do their grocery store run in the morning or they, we're in L.A. right? They love to

go to Airwan in the morning. And that's their moment of Zen. That's their bank bringing moment of then, but they like to do that and their partner wants to spend time with them. And they just need a moment alone. But the person going to Erwan is afraid to hurt the other one's feelings so doesn't say something. And the person that's joining them really just wants to be with their partner. And so that creates friction when if they just had a conversation that's like, I love you, but for my sanity, this has nothing to do with our partnership. I just need a moment alone. Could you let me have that? Would it be okay with you? you and then we can go do this later. So I find that sometimes people need alone time, but they're

afraid to talk about it. And to say to the other person, I don't love the word needy, but might be the more needy person in the relationship, I'm going to make you feel secure by doing whatever you need to feel secure, but you need to trust me that this will help, this alone time will help me be a better partner. Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah. I'd love to have you have a couple more than I have something that I also that I want to share to that. So this is a fun one. This is just a great question that you can ask actually when you're getting to know someone or when you're together for a while. If we were stuck on a desert island together, what natural strengths would you bring to the table to help us survive and thrive? Not what things would you bring, but what strengths would you bring?

And it takes you down this beautiful rabbit hole of conversation. And when you've been with someone for a long time, it's interesting to hear what they think you bring versus what you think you would bring. So like I call my husband, life navigator because not only do I feel comfortable with him making decisions in our life, he happens to be a great map navigator. So when we're on trips, he loves to be nerding out on those maps. And I trust him in any new city. But actually to take that plunge together and to play that game is a really fun intimate exercise. Yeah. You know, there's another one that I wrote down. Tell me. Tell me. Do you need a lone time? And if so, how much? One that I like that came up for us recently, my wife and I, is that, you know, we both work really hard. I have my podcast. I have

my businesses that I'm building. My wife also has a podcast as well and has her businesses that she's amazing. Let's just so all your listeners here and outside point of view on Yasmin. She is just the topest, topest notch ever. Yeah, she's, I just, I just love her. I feel the same way. So when we go on vacation. So this question is, what does your ideal vacation look like? Adventure, relaxation, cultural immersion. One of the things that we were finding is we found this out like a couple years ago, we were having a mismatch often in vacation where even like the experience of like, hey, we're doing this thing that we expect to be really fun, but I'm doing things for you

that I expect that you are like and you're doing things for me that you expect what I like. But what does actually drive joy? Because a vacation should feel rejuvenating. It shouldn't feel like you felt like, man, we just blew all this money that we both worked very hard on, on something that we thought the other person would like, like this trip is more for you, this trip is more for me. But we never sat down and asked for the person, what actually makes you happy on vacation? What drives joy?

And it turned out it was a lot. Which is different from real life, by the way. Yeah, totally. And it turned out that those things were simpler. They were simpler items. It wasn't the fancy restaurant. In many moments, it wasn't even, like, we're not really both big fans of sightseeing on vacation. We actually just like to wander and walk around, eat good food, and kind of sleep in.

But do that in a new location where we're seeing new things. We don't want to do a lot of these other stuff that we were putting all this emphasis on that was causing. Just to take a box off, right, to go to a city and say you did it or say you saw it. Or even because you think that the person might want to do it. Hey, I'm doing this for you. And that happens a lot in relationships. People are like, I'm doing this for you, another person being like, I never asked you to do that for me. Why don't we have an actual conversation about what actually is meaningful to me?

And I want to hear what's meaningful for you. Another question that I like that is that exact sentiment that people don't think to ask is how do you like to be taken care of when you're sick? So when you have something like the common cold, how do you like to be looked after? Do you like to be looked after? Do you like to be in your room with the door closed, just listening to music and left alone? Does it make you feel comforted if I remind you when you took Advil last and you need to take it again or bring you suit? It's a way for me to show you I care about you because I can take care of you when you're sick in a way that I really know makes you feel better. But also having the conversation is the same as what you're saying of let me do all this for you because I expect this is what you want when you're ill.

Are you a needy sick or are you like all power through sick? I am like a just please leave me alone sick. Okay. So I'm the opposite of needy sick. I just want to like rest and get through it. It's usually the stereotype that the guy is the needy. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

I'm happy to break that mold. My wife doesn't even know half the time if I'm sick. I really get sick. Luckily you knock on wood. She's like, are you sick? I'm like, yeah, I don't feel the best. I'm good. You can't even admit that you're sick.

we should dig into that another time. Yeah, we could dig into it. We'll get my therapist, which I don't have one, but I'll find one. One thing that this brought up for me is, and I'll share a little bit about how my wife and I are written about in the book that you included us, you interviewed us, both in person and on Zoom. One of the first things, and I think I've mentioned this once in the podcast, is that meeting Yasmin when I was at the age of 35-ish and she was just about to turn 30, we were both

at a place in our life where we had been in a long-term relationship prior to that, where we thought it might be moving forward, or maybe in her case, she was unsure. And it brought us to the situation where it was like, hey, we really want to build our life with somebody before we knew each other. Like, we're in that place of life where we're- And you're ready. Marriage-minded, right, is what we often say in the Indian culture. We want to be more intentional with the next person that we met. And so very early on and you write about this in the book. I think it was like our fourth, fifth date somewhere around there. I threw out a pretty wild idea to her. You know, I was obviously very attracted to her. She's a stunning and beautiful person. She's beautiful. We were connecting on all other

elements, super driven. She's internally beautiful too, though. Yeah, incredibly. And just, you know, I asked her what a favorite book was and she's talking about Eckartole and like completely viving on my length. And I said, you know, I had a crazy idea. I felt that the next time I'm serious about wanting to get to know somebody. And I could totally see you being somebody. It's a kind of a vulnerable thing to say. I could see you being the type of person that I want to build a life with, right? I'm not trying to Romeo you, Casanova you right now and tell you like I'm ready to marry you. But no, like I'm serious about wanting to get to know you. Like I could see us like building a life together. I felt that when I felt that way that I would ask a person,

would they be open to something that might scare the shit out of you, but would you be open to like a pre-pre-marital counseling in a way? Like, let's go talk to somebody. Yep. Because we didn't have your book at the time. But this is that pre-pre. And I'm so glad you did it. And I want to dig into how I feel about how you went about this.

But I love that you did that. Yeah. And she said, yes. So that's step one. Huge. And look, the risk is that could have totally been scary for somebody else. that's totally fine and who knows how we would have navigated that. I think it's easy to say, oh, if they said no, maybe they're not your person.

No, if they said no, that just means that they are not into it right now. That doesn't mean anything. No, no, I don't totally agree with you there because that was you being your most authentic self. Okay? Yeah. Again, I've known you for a long time. So you are that person who's like, I want to get deep. I want to understand you.

I want to really have a viable, whether it's a friendship, a business relationship or a life partner. You don't be it. And you're honest. And I find that for you, you putting yourself out there, if someone had said no to that, then that's actually not long-term viability with you because that's how you live your life. I think the only thing that I meant to that. I 100% agree. Thank you for that would be like a qualified no. Like, hey. Sure. I'm not ready for that. But I love to think about it. Amazing thing. Yeah. Right. I mean, we were very lucky.

We were set up by friends. Yep. Right? People that we both knew for a while and they literally like at a dinner party dragged us together. They asked me like, oh, we should all go on a double date one time. Like bring your girlfriend. I said, hey, I'm not, I haven't been in a relationship for a little while.

I kind of took a break from dating, you know, just to kind of work on myself and do some things that I want to do and focus on my stuff. But I jokingly said because I never thought I'd be set up by somebody or it's often like the well-meaning friend. then you have to say like, oh, I'm not super drawn to them. You know, I don't really feel a spark that's there. And, you know, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. But they were like, what about Yasmin?

And she was one of the co-host of the dinner. Shout out to our friends Shiza and Amir. They have an amazing company called Our Place. They started. I'm a huge fan. And they literally brought us together. And they both really, like, qualified. Like, hey, we're intentionally, like, really thinking like you guys would connect.

So there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of positive energy that was already showing us that we were a match in many elements. But so let's talk for those people who are not in that situation, right? Who may not have the financial means to get therapy or go see someone, but who do really want to get to know someone on a deeper level. That's where this book comes in handy. Well, the punchline of what I was going to get to is when we actually went in and we met with this therapist here in Los Angeles, Michael Latimer, super sweet guy.

He said, you know, what brings you guys in today? I want to hear from your own words. I saw your intake and everything, but I want to hear from you. And I said, you know, well, it's kind of a super early for us, but we're both very serious about wanting to build a life. And we can both see each other as being that partner to be able to do it. But like, real talk, like we haven't even said, I love you to each other. Like, it's so early for us.

I love that you did this. It's just vibes with all of this. But we want to kind of know, like we want to be guided a little bit. And here's what he said that I want everybody to listen to. Okay. And this fits right into your book. He paused. He really like took it in.

He said, I wish more people out there would have the courage to do this. The world would be a completely different place. And that's not to pat ourselves in the back. It's that when you care about somebody and you also know that you're showing up and you want to present the version of you and the life that you want to live, you also care enough about somebody that you don't, if you're not for them, you're not their couple of people. You're not their cup of tea. You don't want to waste their time. And also, too, you want to share with them honestly about stuff that works for you, stuff that doesn't work for you, or you want to understand where they're coming from.

And how much more intimate did you both feel when you opened yourself up to this experience? What intimacy did that create in you? Oh, yeah. It was incredible. I mean, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It was a very, I have a question for you about this and I'll come back to later. I was definitely leading. I'm not going to lie and say, like, both of us, like, she was game.

And I do have theories. Being a game is all it takes. And I do think, this might be a controversial take, I do think it takes one person has to take that initial step. Absolutely. Right. I have never found a situation where both people are ready for anybody who's listening is like, I wish other person would do it. Well, if you're listening to this podcast and you're ready to read this book, maybe that person is you. Maybe they're wishing that you would do it.

Well, and this gives you ways to not be afraid to do it. That's what this is. There's so much. And you know it because you read it. But like there is so much comfort in hearing other people's stories. of what they've been through to give you courage to be the Drew in this situation. Yeah. So it was scary for Yasmin, but at the end of it, there would always be this connection, this deepening. And just the fact that I was willing to go through the process,

it was this feeling of, wow, like I'm really feeling like who this guy is. And the fact that she could do something uncomfortable and we could go to these sessions early on, where we had about four or five sessions that were there. At 45 minutes of your time, that's less than five hours, which is nothing in the scheme of getting to know someone. Totally. It made a huge difference for us, and it brought up so many great things that became the foundation of what we're up to. So I speak to a lot of experts in the book, you being one of them.

I consider you an expert. I have no. I'm not an expert, but I will temporarily put that hot hat on. To me, you are. But so I spoke with Lori Gottlieb, who's an amazing psychologist. And I really, I value her columns. I value her opinions. she said something similar to what you were saying. She said some of her favorite sessions are with couples

or people in situations like you before, before the big stuff, before they argue, before they have to take these big life steps because she really, she thinks that is quite a little secret to relationship success, is hammering out what your life could be like or answering questions or saying, you know what, we want to set ourselves up for healthy partnership. let's go speak to someone about it. That to her is key. And I love that about her. And then someone else I spoke with Barbara Corcoran,

who not at all a therapist, but very well known in the business world, in the real estate world, the first thing she said to me when I was interviewing her on the phone, I don't actually remember if this made it in the book, but she said, I wish people would do this in business.

I wish business partners would answer all of your questions. Because healthy partnership starts with communication. Absolutely. And if you don't know how to do it, there are, well, now, there are tools to help you do it. Let's talk a little bit origin story for this book in particular. Yeah.

You kind of hinted at it a little bit earlier that you said that if you've been that friend who's everybody else's friend is getting married and you're kind of feeling the pressure and you're thinking and you're bringing that into something and you're navigating your own relationships, you were kind of doing a little bit of a peek of part of your story. That's not your whole story. But that was part of the story that was there. And the through line of the book is the connection of you and your now husband, Gavin. No spoiler alert. I mean, that's that's, we get married. It's the past to them. Who you referred to as the Brit in the beginning of the book. He's an Englishman with a great accent. And you guys met on a temporary project that was happening.

and he was in town. He was. He was in New York. And then I'll let you take the story from here. You guys went on a date or two, and I think it was on your second date. He basically gets a call that he's got to go back to London. That's it. Bye-bye.

Take us from there. I'm going to take you a little further back first, but I was that girl that I referred to who was walking down everyone else's aisles. I wanted to find my person, but I couldn't. I was putting myself out there. I, as I was getting, as I was walking down more aisles, I was retreating more into myself because I wanted to find it that we were referring to. And I found that I was so, each date became so much more important to me because I had all these hopes and visions and dreams in my head that I found that I would be sitting across from someone and he would ask a question or would be talking about something.

And I would almost be trying to answer in the way that I thought he would want me to answer. which is very funny because I'm a very strong willed. I have a strong personality in the business world. I will go for what I want. I'm not afraid. I'll talk to anybody. I work in media. But the opposite was happening in my personal life.

And as I was not succeeding, I was retreating. And I realized that I had to change my tactics and I had to really look toward myself about why am I feeling this way? What's going on? And I thought I was ready, but I wasn't ready. But so I kept on dating and I met this Englishman. So we also met through friends, but it was not an intentional meet through friends. It was really a let's throw two people together who are single and in New York and might

like each other kind of thing, right? So it could have gone either way. He was back and forth to him from London and I was filming a TV show in L.A. And we were very back and forth. So we were texting, which is always very very dangerous. because you think you have this great banter. And then when you meet up, there's so many instances where there's just no chemistry there. And you're sitting across from this person who you've had this back and forth text with. And there's nothing there. But I did have, I had high hopes. And we had a great

first date, which is in the book. And you're right. So date two was the night after that. And literally 30 minutes before our second date, he was told he was going back to London. So what do you do? And you know you already like someone. We really. And how strongly did you? you feel like you liked him at the time? For what you knew, for what you were, how strongly did you like you liked him? I felt safe with him. I felt immediately like I could talk to him about anything. I didn't know whether that was true or not, but I felt very comfortable with him. Also, I have to say, and this applies to us, but I think that he was not from New York and there was the possibility of him being here or not being here.

As someone who felt she was losing herself in the dating process, he was low stakes. He could move back at any time or this could not last. So what it allowed me to be was one million percent, me. And I liked me, but I was losing me. But with him, I found that I was not running my texts by anyone else, by my girlfriends. It wasn't like, hey, can I text this? what do you think he'll react? That's a clue that maybe you're not totally being yourself there, or maybe there are some games happening. And so we got to a point, he and I kept on seeing each other.

So he was back in New York a lot, but he wasn't constantly in New York. And we were on FaceTime one night. And honestly, I don't remember what I said. I did not know I was on the cusp of a pivotal moment, but I said something to him. And he had this reaction, this visceral reaction. He said, I just don't know you well enough yet. Oh, that like hit me in the heart because I thought I was opening myself up to him. And I was. But for whatever reason, he wasn't as fully there as I was. So anyway, he's British. That's what it was. We just blame it on his culture, right? So he, we got off FaceTime and I could have done what I'd done in the past, what you knew me to do millions of years ago. And I could have retreated. But something in me said, face this.

what he is saying. And I remember, I remember exactly where I was. I was in my bed, in my pajamas. It was evening. And I googled at that moment how to get to know someone better. That was my first instinct. I listened to him. I didn't say, well, he's wrong. And I'm just going to retreat. And there are better guys in my city. I didn't go there. I liked him. So I leaned into what he said. And I thought, okay, if he feels we don't know each other well enough, I'm going to try and get to know him better. How do you do that? I started reading articles. on different things, but that was the seed of romances and practicalities. That was the, okay, let's know everything and anything we can about each other.

And I had that moment, too, where I said to him, I came up with this idea. You had this comment. It hurt my feelings. And maybe I'm being a little too sensitive about it. But in that moment, it made me realize that I'm really into you. And you're from another country and we're different religions and we have certain things that are different. there's something here that I feel like we could really build.

So do you want to take the plunge with me? And I came up with a list of questions and do you want to see where this brings us? And like Yasmin said for you, the Brit said yes to me. And that was big. And I know him now. I'm married to him. He would not have said yes to just anybody. He wouldn't have done it.

Yeah. But he felt it too in a way that made him. not retreat. So a bit of a long-winded origin to our story, but there was real thought behind that moment. And then this system that I created unofficially at first started helping other couples. When it started helping other couples and other people were getting back to me at how intimate it was, I thought there's a thing. There's a thing here. I'm going to then go to the science of it. And I'm going to get this backed by people who know the science of it. And then I'm going to throw my story on top of it and make it enjoyable. And so here we are, many couples later, who not only

are pre-couples, but couples who have been married for a long time or people who have been out of relationships and want to do their next one better or healthier. It really helps in all those different realms. It's beautiful. You know, that idea of asking, connecting, and what it brings up, there's so many beautiful and practical examples inside of the book of how that foundationally changes the lives of couples one of the ways that's changed my life with my wife is that I learned very early on a lot of what her made what made her feel safe in this world and also made me feel like we were living a big life together and not being so reactionary to having a big family on her side a big family on my side her being super

busy, other things where you just sort of feel like you're kind of in the thick of life. And we don't even have kids yet. And there's days where you just feel like, am I living life or is life living me? Like what's going on? A huge part of it was, okay, what if we just took an hour, two hours? Now, we may not have this in the future. I get it, right? We might have kids in the future.

We might not have that full time. But even if it's 30 minutes at that time. And we sat down and typically for us, it's on Sundays, sometimes on Thursdays. And we make it fun. We usually go to a cafe together and we'll bring our computers and we'll go through our calendar together and we'll say, what are the important things for us, both individually and together, and we'll look at the next two weeks, our rolling commitments. And then at least every other month or once a month, we'll do a bigger planning session

where we'll say, okay, when is our pop out? What is our pop-out moment separate from maybe our regular date night where we really have an opportunity to like connect on a weekend or have gratitude for each other, whatever it might be? And the thing about those planning sessions is having something on the calendar on a regular basis, going back to this idea of alone time, like I really appreciate my alone time and my together time, but having my routine, especially earlier in the morning and Yasmin appreciates her alone time as well too. I found that when we had stuff regularly on the calendar, we both were so much more chill about each other's schedule and how each other wanted to live and play in that schedule.

Because we know we have that time to reconnect. And also going back to the practicalities as we are quote unquote, you know, an older couple than a lot of our friends who got married in their, you know, late 20s, early 30s that were there. we also have older parents, family members, people that we're responsible for. We're both very close to them. So how do we see the people that we care about in our life? When are we going to go see her mom? When are we going to see her dad?

When are we going to drive down to San Diego to see my sisters who I'm super close with? And so much of the friction of small things that when we were getting together, we would kind of fight about our schedules or this happening at this time. So much of that went away when we made that our ritual. and realize that that was actually super meaningful to the both of us. So that was one example that I want to share that you actually wrote a little bit about in the book.

I do. And the one thing that really stuck out to me is I appreciate your ritual. But when you said that you also take time, not every week when you have these touch bases, but you both like to say who friend or family-wise needs a little bit more attention this week. And how are we going to do that? I mean, that speaks volumes to who you are as people and who you are as a couple, but also realizing that you can use your time to help others, but you're planning for it, which I would take comfort in that.

And how does doing that and these touch-based moments, how does it make you feel? So much what I'm looking for in relationship that's a driving force for me is like, how do we find simple things that are adding a significant amount of joy that also by the nature of just life, it's so overlooked through the busyness of it. So here's something that we do. I have to tell you is super both comforting and sexy to me. And you're going to laugh when I tell you what this is. All right.

Bring it on. So my husband's a numbers guy. He's a finance guy. And he's very good with money and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff. And that is not my strength. I've learned so much from him in my philosophies on money and my philosophy's on just how you live your life financially, right? And that's very natural to him. And there is a tendency in relationships like that. And that's stereotypical, right? In our relationship, the man has that

expertise and the woman doesn't. A lot of couples then really get siloed in that and they don't talk about their finances if one person is not as good in that way. So he's always spreadsheeting something and he includes me in that process and we pour over our finances together hey this is what we're putting away for our kids each month this is you want to do a little extra spend this month look at that let's put this here do you want to do let's spend this on this and we approach this as a team and there's nothing more comfortable well there are things that are more comforting but in the scheme of things there's not a lot that's more comforting for me who feels like the person lacking in that department to be taken into this sprinting.

spreadsheet world standing in front of his desk with his spreadsheet open and included in our financial planning, which by default, I could have just let him do and he could have just done because it's my weakness. He doesn't make me feel less than. He answers all my questions about things. And for me, it's super sexy to get in there and to have those financial planning moments with him. It's not awkward because it's about money.

It's ours. You know, what it makes me think about, I pulled this quote from, your book, and it's on the topic of maintenance, right? And how, especially for, again, my audience, a lot of people that are in relationships right now, and you might be listening to some of this and thinking, you know, this is something that I want to bring to my life. And this quote goes right to it. You say, you have to take continuing education for almost any trade you practice. And yet we don't have continuing education for marriage. And that may be one of the most important business partnerships that we undertake. And what it comes

up for me is that, again, these things don't just happen. It's the regular practice of them. And if you haven't been in practice, guess what? That's okay. Yeah. You just now bring it into practice. But how do you know what to give love and attention to? It starts with these questions. Well, and for people who are already in relationships, I understand if it's not your pattern to have these regular check-ins or to bring things up, we are not saying that you need to sit your partner down and say, sit down. We need to talk about our sex life, right? Like, that's a little awkward. that's a little tricky, especially if it's not your pattern. Don't feel scared by this process. Throw in a question here or there about money, about sex, about your families, right? And then say,

that was great. I love talking to you about that. Can we do that more often? Or blame it on me. Blame it on me. Get this book, look through this book and say, I'm reading this book and it recommends we do this. Can we try it? Right? You just need that little in. And I promise you, if your partner's willing to do it, then this can open up a whole new level of communication with you. And once you talk about it, it's easier to revisit it when something else comes up. Yeah, it's super important. You know, one of the things that showed up for us when Yasmin and I were asking a lot of these questions, again, this is the book that I wish that I had for ourselves and that we can hand. And now I bought a bunch of copies. You have. And I can't thank you. And over that.

Especially the ones that are just starting budding relationships that are there. one of the things that were there, there's a question in the book that talks about examples. I didn't pull it exactly, but it's like, what kind of examples did you have around you? It's talking about your relationship of your parents or examples for other people love. And what do you want to emulate versus not emulate, whether it was parental figures or figures in your lives? Yeah. And sorry, babe, if I'm putting you on blast here, but I've gotten permission to talk about all this

stuff. One of the things that actually showed up first early on, and we laugh about it now, and I have my own versions of this, right? So this is not me just talking about my wife. I'll come up with some examples for me too. One of the ones that came up for my wife early on as I realized like if we had a little friction point, which is natural. In fact, some of the, you know, data that's out there on relationships is that if you don't fight, that's a sign. There's a question about that in the book, actually. If we don't argue, why not? And is, are we holding back something that we need to be talking about because that that if you don't fight you just talk about why you don't right right and there's a lot of

couples that feel like they're perpetually roommates and they don't fight and they're afraid of each other a little bit yeah and that drives disconnection right no judgment but that that happens often so in our situation we'd have a little tussle about something right and then it'd be now time to repair i feel very lucky i have you know grew up with examples around me of my parents who had, it was so rare at the time, it was called a love marriage in a world of, you know, Indian and Hindu tradition where most people have arranged marriages, some beautiful aspects to both, obviously. And I would see my parents, especially my dad, I would see him say sorry about stuff and like

in an empathetic and a meaningful way. And what did that look like? And he wouldn't just do it with my mom. He would do it with us as kids if there was a situation that would happen. He would do it with other family members. You know, even one time I would go an intern at his office when I was younger and just kind of help out a little bit. I saw him say it one time to like a coworker that was there.

And I realized I had all these examples of people without even knowing it that had told me kind of how do you say sorry the right way. And you got very lucky because that's rare. It's super rare. Super, super, super, super, super, super rare. And my wife opened up and it's like, you know what? I love my parents. I love all the people around.

me, but I also don't think I was either I didn't see those examples or I wasn't paying attention, right? So this is no knock on, you know, her parents. I wasn't paying attention to that process of like what does it look like to say sorry to somebody? And when you don't pay attention to it, which we're not conditioned to do. So it's nobody's fault. It's not her fault if she didn't pay attention to it. But this is where when you talk about your childhood, just being deeply embedded in you, you're not necessarily paying attention. to it, but it's inside you. Yeah. And the point of this is that us simply having a conversation about this. And again, you have some questions in the book that sort of parallel this conversation.

Now I have so much more empathy when it's tougher for her to say sorry. In fact, we now developed a process. It's a three-step process. Tell me. I love it. I do it too because there's times where I don't say sorry quick enough. And I said, okay, nobody taught you how to say sorry. We're going to come up with our own three-step process of what it looks like for us to repair. We call it repair, right? So I do something stupid. I'm like, she's like, babe, that like totally hurt my feelings. Why would you say it that way? I said, you know what, babe, I go to her step one is physical touch, before you say anything, because we often use words to hide behind things, right? So first step is physical touch. So if we are not on the phone and we're there in person, go to the person, hold their hand,

put, you know, hug them, whatever might be, right? Actually, sorry, sorry. Step one is soften, okay? So, soften. Step two, right? So take a breath. Yeah. Soften, okay?

Because you can definitely hug somebody and be a little bit disgruntled in the process. I'm sorry. So step one is soften. Okay, so just shake it out a little bit. Step two is physical touch. Connect with each other. Hug the person, hold their hand. It, just anything that you feel comfortable with that moment.

If you are charged yourself and all you want to do is hold my pinky, hold my pinky, right? Doesn't matter. Right. And then lastly, step three is look them in the eye and say, babe, sweetie, whatever it is, I'm sorry. And actually, we go through that process on a regular basis. And it's funny. My wife has even said that she's been sharing this with her other friends. I love this.

The same challenge of like, well, I actually didn't ever see somebody saying sorry on a regular basis and emulate that process. And the point that I'm making here is most important, more important than our three-step process, which steal that take with it, run with it, that's there, is I just have so much understanding of where she's coming from. And so I don't have the backlash, which you often see in relationships. I'm sure you see it. I've done it before or you've done it before is one person's a little bit hardened. So the other person is like now takes it up a notch and it's like, oh, you're not going to say story. Well, I'm dealing with this. Another person is like, oh, you're dealing with that and I'm dealing with that. And now you're spiraling downwards. What we want is we want to spiral upwards.

And together. And together. We want to spiral upwards together. But the only way that happens is if we actually have a sense of empathy for each other. And when you ask these questions and you understand where somebody's coming from, just like if somebody had been in a really bad car accident and then they came home and dinner wasn't ready, you would not even be worrying about dinner. You'd be like, how do I focus on you? in that way so many people have all these traumas that they've been kind of holding on to baggage-wise they've never talked about maybe they've never even never even told a therapist and if we understand it we can approach it with a level of gentleness and help kind of usher them into a new way of seeing and interacting with the world i could not agree with you more i interviewed someone in the book

who she was in her second marriage and her first one was a bit abusive and quite explosive and then she met and found someone else who she had a much, what she considered healthier relationship with. And the first few times they argued, she wanted to just retreat because her past was that I need to pull back physically and emotionally because this is going to get explosive. And what her new and now husband made her do was sit right next to him. And they would hold each other's hands as they were figuring out whatever issue they were arguing about. And she said it felt absolutely ridiculous at the time. But what it did was it brought

down her nervous system. It made her feel safe. It made her feel like, okay, whatever is going on between us, we can come together on. And I don't need to go to that crazy reactive place that's really from my past and not in my present. So that's similar to what you're saying. And I had a moment with the Brit where, and this is one of the favorite questions in the book that I get that I hear a lot about, it's how do you argue? So to your point, I, how do I, well, I'll tell you how I argue. I'll tell you how I argue. Do you want to have an argument about that? I'm extraordinarily, extraordinarily verbal. And I want to work out what my thoughts are in the moment. I'm not a, I don't reach for nasty, rude, terrible things in arguments.

I don't get like that. I don't get hurtful, right? But I do want to work out my thoughts. Now, my partner is the exact opposite. He needs a minute. He wants to take a step back. He wants a minute of quiet. He wants to process.

And really, that does not work for someone like me who just wants to go, go, go. go and resolve it in the moment. I think I have a bit of a fear of if we don't resolve it now, then it's going to go on too long. That's sort of in the back of my head and I need to just get it out. So we had a moment early in our relationship where we argued. And it was at the night time. And we got into bed and we had talked about a little bit. We were, I was operating the way I operate. He was operating the way he was operating. So we were completely separate. And we got into bed and he turned over and he turned away from me to turn his back to me. When I tell you how physically painful that was to me, he was not, he was tired.

We had been arguing. It was completely unintentional, but to me, I felt like he's turning his back on me. And that moment was the first moment where I said, okay, we need to talk about this. This hurt my feelings that you just turned over because I feel we're not resolved and I feel like you turned your back of me and I never want to feel that way again. But I feel like before we can work out what we want to work out, we need to talk about how we argue. And when we realize that we have both have different needs in an argument, we came to the agreement like you have one with you guys that he lets me just go and get it out for a bit. And then I take a pause and I let him sit with

it for however long he needs initially. We take deep breath, whether it's 20 minutes and hour or two minutes, whatever it is. And then we come back and we talk about it. And understanding how the other person argues then makes the argument not about how you argue. It makes the argument about what you're actually arguing about. So I'm not getting all huffy because of how he behaves when we're not on the same page. And he's not getting annoyed because I can't stop like trying to talk about it. Does that make sense? It makes sense. And so you don't lose the actual issue because you have a respect for what the other person needs in those moments. And that's another way to show them how you love them. I'm going to put myself aside for a moment for the benefit of how we operate together.

So in a practical level, let's say something comes up. And sometimes an argument needs multiple conversations to work itself out. Yep. So in a practical level, does that look like one of you asking for a break? Like, hey, look, let's pick this up a little bit later on. What does that look like on a practical level? If we were seeing you guys, you know, arguing a movie. We, well, we're, we're funny and he always knows what to do to diffuse the situation. He's very good at that. So when I get heated, I also have in the back of my head, if this is a really serious thing, he needs a minute. So I kind of get it out and then I'm like, okay, let's just think about this and come back to each other. Then we go off and do whatever we do. And then when we're both calm, it's like,

can we talk about this for real now? And it's that understanding of I got my stuff out, he got his time. And we've been doing it for so long now that it's less prescriptive. Yeah. And we really do address things as they happen. So those, when people have a more explosive disagreement or argument, we don't have those like we could have had because we're always talking about something. Are you familiar with like some of the work in the space of like male, female dynamics and relationships?

So like the masculine and the feminine and how there's, you know, what brings a lot of people together is polarity, even in like same-sex relationships. You know, there's usually somebody that has a lot more, maybe shows up more masculine in certain ways and doesn't have to always be the same person, but like more masculine, this person shows up more feminine. One of the things that I feel as somebody who is also a little bit verbal and wants to talk, talk, things out is I feel like a lot of my relationships being, trying to be like a more like empathetic guy who's like super understanding of women, having two sisters.

I'd be like, oh yeah, like, I always want to like talk it out. Let's talk. Let's talk. I think I actually made things a lot worse by being the masculine who is always there to talk. Instead, I often notice with my wife right now, even if there's something that needs to be resolved, if I just go and I hold her and I let her know, like, I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. And that doesn't mean that we've resolved this specific thing. But there's a whole shift in her nervous system in terms of how we will argue or talk about whatever it is that we're having friction about, but I haven't over-participated in the head verbal part of it. And that can sound a little dismissive. I'm sure even some people are listening, it could sound sexist. But it's a lived experience for me

is that sometimes as a guy, when you're there, really being the container to be able to hear, but also not everything is resolved through words. Sometimes it's the person knowing. and everybody's different. That's why you got to talk about it, the love languages. But that's when you can let it go, right? Once you talk about it, there's that understanding and then you can let it go. Totally, totally. And also, too, sometimes people don't feel like they're ready to talk about it yet

because they're in the energy of it. And just some sense of them knowing that you're still there, that completely shapes how you guys talk about it. I also like when you're in those situations, take a minute, don't try and fix it, but ask the person what they need in that moment, right? Hey, do you feel like you need to talk about this right now? Hey, hey, that's the New Yorker coming out of me. That's the, hey, let's address this.

But hey, do you need a minute? Or can I just listen right now? Do you need someone to listen? Do you need advice? Do you need my thoughts? What's going to help this situation? Start there. Yeah, you don't know unless you ask.

All right, I want to go to another category. Okay. And I want you to pull some questions. from this category. And this, again, for people who have been in... This is like questions roulette. Let's go. Questions roulette.

It's for people who have been in a relationship for some time, whether you have kids, whether you don't have kids, everybody's gone through a period where on the intimacy and sex and the connection on the physical and the romantic level feels like there's something that's there that's a blockage. Yep. And what often happens, and one of the people that you had that you interviewed as part of the book is Emily. Yeah, she's great.

Sex with Emily. She's been on this podcast. She's fantastic. She's been fantastic. What were one of the key insights that she shared that you included inside of this book on that topic? For anybody who's thinking that great sex just happens, great physical chemistry just happens. And if it's not there, then it's just not there. You know, what were some of the insights she shared with you while I pull up to the questions?

Yes, of course. I mean, this is so on trend with what we're talking about that it's not going to come as a surprise to any of your listeners. But she really talks about the sexual state of the union. And exactly what we're saying, talk about it, right? Talk about your money. Talk about your finances. Talk about sex and talk about your physical intimacy. And I know this is hard.

But she then goes to lean into this talk about it makes it better and talk about it often. Yeah. Well, on the topic of talking about it, you have a whole category of questions. When you think about couples that have been together for a while and there's the natural ebb and flow of how and every couple's different, everybody's sense of yearning for intimate, well, everybody wants intimacy generally, but everybody's yearning for maybe sex on a physical level might be different. What are some questions that might come up to you that could be something that couples could

be thinking about asking, you know, over a glass of wine? and on date night and just using it as an opportunity to just bring people closer together. So first of all, I think when you do something like the sex questions or you have your sexual talk or you start bringing things up, I actually think it's important to not do it in the bedroom. I think it's important to normalize talking about things like sex and intimacy and not it's like, you know, when you have kids and you only read to them before bed. So they end up thinking that reading is only a bedtime thing. So reading during the day is very different, right?

Sex is not only in the bedroom. Intimacy is not only in the bedroom. So I say have these conversations exactly what you're saying, overwine, having a walk. But before you get to my questions, I think it's important to understand what you like, what you don't like. Ask yourself some of these questions. Where am I at with my sexual health right now are the things I want to be doing? are the things that make me uncomfortable, right? So start with yourself with these questions.

So here's one that seems a bit silly to ask, but is very important to ask, do we have good sex? And is there anything you like me to do differently? I think people need to understand that when your partner brings up something sexual or in the bedroom, it's not always because something's wrong or something's bad, but it might be because they want to try something new or they feel safe with you. So they want to explore other areas, right? Yeah, absolutely. And it could even be that so much of the erotic for the feminine is also, too, what happens

before the bedroom. Well, so a lot of times couples get into a rut and they just think that we need to have sex and they don't take part into, is there a candle that's lit before? Does sex start with dinner? Does it start with what we're wearing before bed or not? And say things to your partner like, I really like when we do this. Could we try this? You can ease into these conversations.

You don't have to hit it hard. Like we need to have a sexual state of the union. You can get there. But if it's something that's uncomfortable with you, start easy. How do you show love to others? How do you like when love is shown to you? Do you like when I touch you there? Things like that are easy ways into this.

And I often find that there's one person who initially. more than the other person. That's an easy pattern to fall into. So if you're the one that's not initiating, think about why you're not initiating. Are you less interested in sex at the moment? If so, explain to your partner why, because that partner might be feeling hurt that they initiate so much. If you're the one that's initiating and you've gotten into that pattern, tell your partner that you'd like them to initiate more. Hey, I love it when you did this. Can you try and do that again. That makes me feel really good. You were talking about Emily, and we both agree, she's fantastic. One of the best pieces of advice that she talked about when she was on the podcast

last time was talking about how for couples that have been together for a while, one of the biggest hacks to improve your sex life is to schedule sex. Absolutely. And people hear that, especially young couples, and they think schedule sex, that's so not sexy. That's so not. That's so not. what I wanted in life that my marriage or relationship would end up to this point where we're scheduling it. And then I saw a random video that somebody made. I got to find out who made this video, but I'll share the point. They were saying if the idea of scheduling sex sounds crazy to you, think about the time that whenever you're in your, maybe even your current relationship, when you're in the early days, you knew kind of when you guys were going to be intimate, even if you

weren't living together. You were dating and you were further along and you thought, okay, this feels like a night that we're going to be that. That's where the relationship is. We're going to be intimate. You actually used to schedule sex. You're right. You get ready. You have date night. You knew that something was happening. You'd both be flirtatious with each other. There'd be build up to the moment. So this whole idea that, oh, that was just spontaneous. You'd wear nice underwear because you know you're going to be at their house. You might groom in different ways. So that is scheduling sex. You're right. Those were some of the most erotic moments that you can think of in the earlier part of the relationship. Why wouldn't we think that that same

idea would be there? And within the context of all of life's demands, kids, business, other stuff, the idea that any random moment, kind of like the lottery, right, that you would just be ready to have sex right now, great. Some couples have a high sex drive and they might be in that position. And often people are in the middle. That's why it's the average, that them mentally preparing that this is something that's there. And also, too, the other layer that I'd add into that is that sometimes it's like, hey, tonight is for me and then the next time is for you. What is that person like? What do they enjoy? What makes them feel alive and erotic? Because a huge part of, besides physical connection, coming from there, I truly believe that creative energy,

both for the masculine and the feminine, comes from being in your, you're erotic. And when we don't have that access to our life, not that it only has to come through physical sex and intimacy with your partner, you can get it through other ways, but that is one big part of it if you desire it. That makes you want to show up stronger in business, in this aspect, and, you know, go for your goals and dreams. I feel like there's a reason why we have, you know, according to the Indian culture, there's a reason why we have a big chakra. That's our root chakra for men and women. You know, it's part of our life force that's there. Yeah. And I think not everyone has the same sex drive at the same time. Most people don't. Right, right. It's definitely safe to say that most

people don't. And there is a give and take in life, in everything. And I always find that when you schedule to go back to when you schedule sex, there are a lot of times where you don't feel like doing it before. And then you go through it and you do it and you think, God, that was so much better than I thought it would be. And then you feel so much more connected to your partner, right? Yeah, you're creating intimacy together. It's the practice. If you are not feeling like you can go straight into scheduling sex, if that's a big step for you, then I want people to go to the rituals and routines of it all, right? So if there's a step between where you are and helping your intimacy, go back to your rituals and routines because connect yourself.

first if you're disconnected, and then you can get to the sexual of the connection. Does that make sense? Yeah. So for somebody who's listening now and thinks like, okay, hey, that's a big step, right? Like what would be some possible routines that they could put on and try on with their partner that might be ways to take that step towards a greater intimacy? What are some examples that you've seen? So let's say you guys like to watch a show and you sit on opposite sides of the couch, snuggle up together. Get physically closer. So you are at least within touching distance because that's going to make you want to touch each other more. Right. If you like to go for a walk, your friends are walking to their coffee in the morning before going to their workout class.

Hold hands as you're walking. Take baby steps. But you're doing something like this ritual that is bringing you closer. Now add in a little bit of physicality to that. Take a bath together. Exactly. Or if that's even too strong, sit with your partner while they take a bath and talk to them and have a great conversation. Join them. That's what it is. It's joining them. Right? And then it's building up to that physical level. And if you're in an intimate setting, start talking about sexy things. You know, it doesn't have to be acts of sex. It can be like, hey, I would like to get this piece of lingerie or do you like this? color I was thinking of wearing it to bed tonight, something like that to get you talking about it. Bring it into your realm. You know, I truly believe that we all have this innate ability to not only ask these questions, but we have the desire to want to ask a lot of these questions. We want to be more connected to our partner, our potential partner.

Sometimes people don't know what to ask. They don't know what to ask. That's one part of it. They don't know that you can ask. Yes. Because, you know, I've been sharing some of these questions, photograph. them sending it to friends because the book wasn't out yet, even though I knew I was going to buy a bunch of copies for all my friends.

Sneaky. And they're like, I didn't know that I could ask that. I didn't know that that was a question. You don't know what's possible until sometimes somebody shows it, especially many people haven't had it demonstrated. But I feel like we all have that innate desire to want to do that. And this may seem like a little bit of a tangent, but I have a dear friend of mine that lives here in Los Angeles.

And she was a couple's therapist for years. And sometimes, you know, as you can remember. imagine a lot of couples that came to work came in the worst moments of their life. Infidelity, this situation, that situation, major ruptures, breakage, somebody feeling for resentment for years, and then finally saying, I'm done, right? And then she gets the 911 emergency call of like, hey, can you help us repair? And it's years of stuff. And over a period of time, as she started to pay attention to the literature around the emerging therapeutic uses of psychedelics, In particular, MDMA, again, this may sound like a tangent, but I'm going somewhere with this.

I'm loving this. She got MAPS certified, which is the official organization that's been contributing a lot of this research on people that have very traumatic situations, soldiers, other stuff, and how MDMA in particular has this incredible therapeutic effect for people to reprocess and re-contextualize the trauma that they experience. And not only that, it has a lasting change, right? again, not federally approved right now. Certain states, it's there. And then this whole underground movement, but a lot of people on the left and the right politically that are all fighting for, you know, hey, in a therapeutic setting with the right practitioner, controlled, etc., this could be a huge tool. Anyways, being part of this underground network of individuals, she started working with

couples that were open to this, that trusted her and knowing that she had gone through her training and everything, and she would use MDMA, again, in a clinical setting to basically allow for more of this connection and really for the surface ego that we all have, I see you a particular way because we've been together forever and I can't see past that. What would happen is being on, and I've interviewed a lot of the experts and the researchers that are in this space, when the default neural network would get quiet, something. powerful would show up. And what would show up is that people were willing to ask these most basic questions and they were willing to answer it and they were willing to see themselves in a new

light. Now, my hope, and we've chatted about this on previous episodes, is that I hope that continues to get more research and we see what opportunity it has. But what it really brought up for me inside of this conversation here is that so much of what gets in the way of intimacy is the idea that we either can't ask a question, we don't know that a question is possible, or we have all this baggage and reasons for why I'm not going to ask this question. And as soon as you can take just one toe and dip it in the water outside of that, starting small in some of these ways that you've mentioned, and have the courage, because sometimes it does take a little bit of courage. Because it's a lot of courage. To start off and ask that question, what you're doing is you're

stepping beyond that default neural network, maybe that years of your mother's voice in your head or your dad's voice or somebody else or the expectations of what a relationship should be or the blame that you have for yourself or your partner or the guilt that you have for yourself or whatever it might be, you're taking a little toe, you're stepping beyond that and you're creating an opening. And creating an opening is a very vulnerable thing to do. But the question isn't, is it going to be challenging? The question isn't, does it take courage? The question is, is it worth it?

And I think most people that are listening today would feel that the person that they're with, and most people probably listening today, don't feel like they're in a bad relationship. If you would truly ask them, is it worth it to have more joy, connection, intimacy in your life by taking a little bit of courage, picking up this book, asking some of these questions,

I think most people would say, yes, it is worth it, even though I'm scared. And I think that that is one of the biggest takeaways that I'd like to have people walk away from this conversation. Once you start asking these questions, you won't stop because it really does open up that level of intimacy, trust. It helps in your physical relationships. It also helps you because you realize you have a perspective on certain things.

And it's nice to have a perspective. It's nice to feel strongly about things if that makes sense. A lot of times we float through life to get back to what we talked about right at the very beginning, right? Life happens to us. But when you have perspective and you have opinions, that's just a much stronger way to go through life and relationships. And it's a much more fulfilling way to do so.

Well, Lindsay, this has been fantastic. I'm so glad we got to do this in person. Me too. And go on all the different zigzags that a long format podcast allows for. As we are concluding here, I'm just going to hand it back to you. For the folks that are listening today, again, I would say that the typical demographic, probably listening to this podcast episode, is largely my female demographic. Although shout out to all the men that are out there that I've texted this episode too.

And, you know, they're probably around, you know, somewhere between the age of 40 to 60, maybe even 70 years old. They're in a relationship. Yep. And there's parts of them that feel like, you know what? I would like to have a little bit more that's there. What are the final words that you want to leave them with? So the final words are that this book is here because I love love.

I love self-love. I love couple love. And I most love healthy love. And I encourage your listeners to take a read and really look at these questions to understand what do you need to talk about and to go from there. That's why there are 250 of them. But I promise you that when you dive in, this will become a fun exercise, not a work exercise, not a tedious exercise, but it will open you up to a bit more bliss and joy and health

in your romantic lives. I love that. And so a couple practical questions on your answer that you just gave. You know, there's all these different categories. Yes. Right. Of questions that are there. Relationships, sex, sexuality, careers, work, life balances, money and finances, people can jump around.

And go to any category. You may and must jump around. This book is structured so that you make it work for you. This is a system, but it's not a system that can only be done in one way. And that's why it's great for listeners who are already in relationships or who are on a burgeoning point of a relationship. So use it in the way that it works best for you. What if your partner is not on board?

You need to understand why. And that needs to be your conversation. because if you're with the right person, you should be able to talk to them about anything and everything and they should feel the same way with you. But if you're locked in, if you're married, I suggest you, if you don't think that they're going to be on board to sit down and have a discussion or answer back and forth questions or do it that way, then I suggest you pick out your favorite things and you weave them into conversation.

It's not always seamless, but pick what you need to talk about and find a way in. don't let them know that you're doing this system if you think the perception of doing a system is going to make them take a step back. And if it maybe really gets to that stage, people can bring in help. Please bring in help. Please bring in help. If you get to the point where you think this is beyond me or I'm answering these questions, but it's bringing us to a place of knowing that we need help, go get help.

Yeah. There are lots of experts in this book. And it's the same. That was me getting help, right? So if you need help, go get help. As you were putting this together and you have so many friends that you've been sharing this idea. You're smiling big right now.

I have no, I'm smiling because I'm so happy for you. And I'm just imagining you over the years, even before this book was a book, I've seen you have these conversations with people. I've seen you ask these questions or provide these questions for folks. What is an area that you see is like a category of question or a particular question that has brought a lot of like fun to people. I'm not, there's a lot of fun questions in here.

There are. But I think that sometimes people think 250 questions, this, that, money and finances, like this whole thing is like super serious. Yeah. But there's a lot of fun inside of it as well. Yeah. There's a lot of playfulness. There's a lot of joy that's there.

What are some of those examples? Anything come to mind? Absolutely. So the toilet paper over or under is a great question. Are you an over or under guy? Well. Oh gosh. I like you so much.

Please don't say the wrong thing. I'm an over guy. Oh, thank God. Because if you look at the original patent for toilet paper, let's have our video team slice this in. The original patent for toilet paper is an over. Do you want to know something? In all of my conversations about this, I have, no one has, of course, you're the one with that answer, but no one has ever given me that answer.

But it is a question that people have an opinion on. And it's not even really so much about the answer. It's like, what does that tell you about somebody? Oh, my God. There are so many people right now that I know are. under people who I can't wait to look up the patent for it and send it to them and show it as an over. So another one is, for example, do you like to cook or do you like to clean up or do you like

laundry or do you like dishes? Like which do you prefer? And I find that those are great questions because I was on a podcast and I was with the podcaster and he said, can we ask a question of each other? And he just picked one. He gave me a number and I just read whatever that question was. and it was laundry dishes. And we learned so much about each other.

In that moment, we were getting back to college stories of like dishes piling up. And that's such an innocuous question that can lead to so much fun if you're willing to go there. We learned that firsthand. My wife and I, when we moved in, literally like three weeks later, the pandemic happened. And already my wife is more, not that I'm messy, but she's definitely, grew up in a household, shout out to her parents, that was a lot stricter on what the definition of cleanliness was. I grew up in a clean household too.

But then the pandemic happened and the world is upside down. And you're like, what the hell? No one's coming to clean your house. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so funny. Shout out to my wife's mom, Neelu. She had later told us because we delayed, I had already a plan that I wanted to propose to her that

year before the pandemic happened. And then when we're in the midst of the pandemic and you don't know what's going on and we're like, okay, can we even have a wedding? Like I'm thinking about the timeline and other stuff. And our parents haven't even met yet because like it was so early for us and her dad lived on the other side of the coast. I think my parents had met her mom, but our families really haven't even met. So I delayed the engagement. And so her mom had later told her she was like, I was really nervous because during COVID, all these couples were forced to be together 24 hours without. sort of going anywhere. And I wasn't sure if you guys were going to make it or not because I knew

that Drew's timeline for wanting to propose to you. And then it didn't happen. I'm like, oh my gosh, are these guys are not going to make it? Yeah. And it only had gotten delayed for some other things. But that was funny because we definitely butted some heads a little bit and had to dig in deep on our definition of cleanliness so that we can maintain our sanity during a crazy time. So fact for you, there's, you know, there's a lot of research out there that says if you live together before you, let's say get married or whatever that partnership looks like to you, you have less of a chance of succeeding if you lived together before. But say that again?

So there is plenty of research. Living together is good or bad. So there's plenty of research that says that. But there is also a ton of research and this is what I believe that it's not about when you move in together. It's about how you move in together. So for those who moved in pre-pandemic or pandemic or for those who move in with each other, because one of you live in a city and one of your rents is up and you're spending time at your

partner's house anyway. So you think we should just move in together, right? That's actually okay as long as there's intentionality behind it. So it could be three months. It could be three weeks. It's not when. It's how. That's great.

Lindsay, this has been fantastic. The book is out there. We have the link in the show notes. And if you're looking on YouTube, here it as well. Click the link in the show notes. Romances and practicalities, a love story. Maybe yours in 250 questions. You're on all the socials.

All the socials. Lindsay Jill Roth, find me. I want to hear your thoughts. I'm so excited to engage with people. You know, your book lives in a vacuum before it comes out. So now it's like I'm just let me. it rip. So love to hear people's thoughts. Yeah. DM you tell you your favorite question from the book. Slip into my DMs. Slip in the DMs. Share your favorite questions. Share your love story. Share any

insights that you've had on this podcast. We'll link to your social channels below. Lindsay, this has been fantastic. Thank you. It's been an honor to be included in the book in a tiny way. I'm super appreciative of your friendship. And I'm just so proud of what you're bringing to the world. I couldn't think of a topic that, you know, if you look at the current state of romance in today's day and age, people are largely unhappy with the landscape of many aspects of it. So anything that could bring more intentionality for those people that do have that moment of meeting. And there could be something that could brew from there. But they didn't have the tools to deepen that connection.

It makes me very sad because I know actually many people that met. And they could have kind of made things work out. And they could have been a great couple that was there. But they didn't have the roadmap, the tools, or even the other thing, which is people who have been amazing and they've let sort of entropy take over the relationship and they just need a little bit of guidance. Lean into that. Lean into that.

Don't step back from it. Thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me.