Dhru Purohit Show - If You’re Feeling Stuck, This Simple 3 Minute Practice Can Reset Your Nervous System: How EFT Helps You Break Free from Fight, Flight & Freeze with Jessica Ortner

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

This episode is brought to you by Bon Charge, One Skin, Our Place, and Cozy Earth. One of the most overlooked drivers of your brain health, metabolism, and longevity isn’t your diet or exercise��it’s whether your body feels safe. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, Dhru sits down with Jessica Ortner to explore how tapping can help regulate the nervous system, reduce stress, and create lasting emotional and physical change. Jessica breaks down the science behind tapping and its ability to calm the body’s stress response. They dive into why so many people are stuck in chronic survival mode, how to recognize your own nervous system patterns, and the role of self-compassion in shifting those patterns. Jessica also shares a powerful tapping exercise to overcome feelings of “not being good enough,” along with practical ways to proactively use tapping for procrastination, relationships, and parenting. For nearly two decades, Jessica Ortner has been helping people reduce stress, calm their minds, and feel more at home in their bodies. As a co-founder of The Tapping Solution, she has reached millions through bestselling books, transformative digital programs, and the leading EFT Tapping app, featuring thousands of guided sessions. Through her work—and the organization’s foundation—Jessica has helped bring practical, evidence-based emotional wellness tools to individuals, schools, and communities around the world. In this episode, Dhru and Jessica dive into: (0:00) Intro (1:05) Who should try tapping? (3:56) The Basics of Tapping (6:41) Nine Basic Pressure Points (12:42) How Tapping Helps with Stress Response (20:03) The Science Behind Lowering Stress (25:39) Living in Survival Mode (31:58) Nervous System Patterns (45:38) Feeling “Not Good Enough.” (55:18) The Origin Story  (1:01:45) Pre-Meditative and Proactive Practice (1:08:07) Tapping for Couples, Kids, and Family Relationships (1:10:20) Being Present and Finding Balance (1:15:21) Trauma, Triggers (1:18:45) Being More Honest About Emotions (1:22:27) Helping Fight, Flight, or Shutdown Response (1:24:59) Addressing Sleep Problems (1:29:09) Jessica’s Final Thoughts and Advice Also mentioned in this episode: Rewired: The Breakthrough Tapping Method to Stop Overthinking, Calm Your Body, and Finally Feel at Ease The Tapping Solution App My ANTI-AGING Evening & Morning Routine To Look 18 Again (Living To 120+) | Bryan Johnson For more on Jessica and The Tapping Solution, follow them on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Pinterest, TikTok, Threads, or visit their Website. This episode is brought to you by Bon Charge, One Skin, Our Place, and Cozy Earth. Right now, Bon Charge is offering my community 15% off their Red Light Cap. Just go to boncharge.com/dhru and use code DHRU to save 15%. Right now, One Skin is offering my community 15% off; just go to oneskin.co and use the coupon code DHRU to save 15% and give your skin the scientifically proven, gentle care it deserves. Reduce your toxic load by upgrading your cookware! Go to fromourplace.com today and use promo code DHRU at checkout to receive 10% off any order. Right now, get 20% off your Cozy Earth sheets and sleepwear. Just head over to cozyearth.com/dhru and use code DHRUP. Sign up for Dhru’s Try This Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jessica Orner, welcome to the podcast. A pleasure to have you here. We're talking about some woo-woo shit that actually works. We're talking about the power of tapping. And first, it's important that we acknowledge that anybody that's listening today that's ever felt that they're broken, they have a pattern that doesn't serve them, but they're not sure how to fix it. They're not sure how to interrupt it.

They're not sure how to change it. They're not sure how to do anything about it. if you're looking for some solutions, I think this conversation is going to be super interesting. What do you think about that? I love it, and I will push back on the woo-woo, only because we have 300 published studies. Tony Robbins wrote the forward.

We have Hugh Jackman in the back. We have so many people from all over the world and walks of life who use this. But I think the biggest difference between this and maybe some other things we learn about is that the research is building drastically. And we'll talk a bit about brain scans, about cortisol levels, but this is something that appears as woo-woo, and then when you dive in,

you realize this is powerful and it works. What is this and who is it for? Great. This is a powerful technique you can do to reduce stress and anxiety. It works incredible for phobias, for fears, for racing thoughts, those loops that keep you up at night before going to bed. And it's called tapping because we are tapping on these acupressure points. These are nerve endings on our body.

There's mechanoreceptors under our skin. And as we tap on these points, it sends an electrical signal through the nervous system, giving the brain and body a signal of safety. So with tapping, what you do is you're actually giving yourself permission to experience the fear. Notice the phobia. Notice the tension. But as you tap and you send that calming signal to your brain, what happens, it's this dueling signal. Your brain is saying, warning, something's bad. I need to stay up at night or I have to worry about something.

But your brain is now getting this message of safety through the nervous system. And that creates a pause for with that safety signal, your mind is able to recalibrate and go, oh, wait, my body is feeling better. I am safe. And that is when the intrusive thoughts stop. That's when the looping thoughts stop. And you feel like you have control again. It's really important to understand how the nervous system works.

And the nervous system is not here to help us reach our goals or to need to be a better person. Our nervous system cares about one thing, which is safety. And so when we're feeling anxious, it's not because we're broken or there's something wrong with us. It's because there is this signal that we are not safe. And so our goal with the tapping is to use these points to send a safety signal. When you feel safe, you feel safe to speak on stage, to try something new, to make life changes. Everything feels easier if your body feels safe and you feel like you have control. Some people have heard of tapping.

Some people have not. We're going to walk people through the basics, including a demonstration right here in a second. But an important thing that you just mentioned, you know, most people think that their struggles are who they are. You talk about this in your new book, ReWired with your brothers. But the core idea of the book, your message here today is that these are, learned nervous system patterns, not your core identity. So putting what you share together and what I just shared is that if there's something that you don't love about the way that you're responding to the world that's out there, fear, anxiety, whatever it is, you can tap and interrupt a little bit

of a pattern and reset that. I'm using my layperson language. And it literally is that. It's tapping. And I think that a lot of people are skeptical, naturally when they first hear it, but when they try it, they're like, holy smokes, this actually has something to it. Could you give us a demonstration by taking one of these thoughts that somebody might work on that you've heard of before? So we'll start basic because where you want to start is where you are. When you do the tapping, what tends to happen is as you quiet your mind and your body feels calm, you can begin to make some connection. So maybe you're overwhelmed and you tap and then you go, oh, this reminds me of that time in my past when this happened, right? So that sometimes happens and you can kind of look at different beliefs you have in your past, different events, which left a message of fear in your body. If you're in second grade and you stand up and you go to spell out a word in a spelling beat and you get it wrong and people laugh, you can be 50 years old and no.

Now you have to speak at a work event and your body will go right back to that fear state. Because in that moment as a little child, when you felt anxiety, the world didn't feel safe. Your body remembers that. So you're an adult. You know better. I'm a grown up. I know better. I shouldn't worry.

I got this. It doesn't matter. Your body remembers as well. So it's not that we hold emotions only in our minds, but we hold them in our body, which is why sometimes we logically know we shouldn't be worried and physically we can't help it. And so what we're doing here is giving ourselves this moment of tapping and you always start with where you are. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, you don't have to think about a moment in your past when this comes up. You don't have to do deep therapy. You actually start with where you are. And sometimes that's enough. Other times it can

lead you to something else. So if you're starting with feeling overwhelmed, what you do is you tap while you give a voice to what's going on. This makes a lot of people who love positive thinking really uncomfortable because they think, no, no, no, I'm not supposed to say anything negative. I have to stay positive. We are giving a voice to the thoughts that are running us unconsciously. They're already there. So instead of pushing through them, shaming ourselves, saying we shouldn't feel this way, We give ourselves this really beautiful moment to go, I, even though I'm overwhelmed, I accept how I feel. And you tap while you give a voice. The only reason we're ever talking is so that we can stay focused on the feeling we want to clear.

And we don't start wandering and thinking about the dishwasher or what we have to do tomorrow. The research has shown that the power is not in the words. The power is these acupressure points. So I'll teach you the acupressure points. And then we can have a quick example of what that might look. look like if you're feeling anxious. That's great. That's perfect.

So for those who are watching, you can see it. If you're listening on a walk, I will walk you through it. I'll talk you through it. The first point is the side of the hand and it's underneath the pinky. It does not matter what side of the body you tap on because these points are symmetrical. You can tap on both sides or only one side when you get to the rest of your face. You can't tap on both your hands at the same time. But we have underneath the pinky.

Then the next point is where the hair of your eyes. eyebrow begins. Now, Drew, you might notice that when people overwhelm, they go like this, they put their fingers on the bridge of their nose or they put their hand on their chest. Intuitively, we know that these are points that help calm us. The next one is on the side of the eye and it's on the bone. Perfect. So I'm just using two fingers and doing a gentle tap tap. Then underneath the eye right on the bone. Then we have underneath the nose between the nose and the upper lip. We have underneath the mouth,

which is the crease between the upper lip and the chin. We have the collarbone point, which sits right under your collarbone. So a little bit lower, perfect. Underneath the arm, it's a hand width from your armpit. Perfect. And then we have the very top of the head. Right.

So those are the nine points. Now when someone learns it, the first experience they'll have, it's kind of like asking someone to rub your tummy and pat your head. It's normal if you're kind of thinking through, am I doing this right? It's good just to have an experience to learn the points better. But what's really powerful as people continuously do this,

if you have a moment when you feel a panic coming up, or you just got rear-ended, or you have five minutes before a meeting, this is something that you could do immediately to calm your nervous system. The biggest difference here is meditation is amazing for resiliency. Therapy is great, but you're doing it once a week. This is the technique you turn to when the anxiety is so strong that you're having trouble thinking your way out of it. And you don't have anyone. You don't have your therapist on speed dial, right?

You need something to communicate with your body. This is what you do. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, this is going to be a very simple example. Okay. So we're just going to do two rounds. So you're going to start on the side of the hand. And those who are listening, just tap. If you're on a walk, it's okay.

I tap all the time on a walk. It's getting more common. People don't look at you like you're too crazy. but you're tapping on the side of the hand. And I want you to say within your own mind, just repeat after me in your own mind, even though I'm feeling overwhelmed, I accept how I feel.

Now tapping on the eyebrow point, this overwhelm. Side of the eye, I have so much to do. Under the eye, so many responsibilities, under the nose so much pressure, Under the mouth and life feels like a lot. Collarbone, I acknowledge all of these feelings. Under the arm and I'm letting my body know,

top of the head, that even with everything that's going on, it is safe for me to begin to relax. Eyebrow. I can still take action, side of the eye, and relieve some of this pressure. Under the eye, I don't have to do it perfectly. Under the nose, I take this one step at a time. Under the mouth, I am finding my way. Collarbone, I acknowledge this anxiety.

Under the arm, and I'm letting my body know that I am safe. Top of the head, it is safe to let go. It is safe to find more ease. Right, and just take a nice, deep breath in and exhale. Just notice how you feel. Notice if your shoulders feel a little lower, and two things can happen. You can either feel more calm or what's really bothering you can come to the surface as you gain more awareness. And then you can continue to tap longer and adjust, and I can share some amazing resources we have.

But two rounds, Drew, usually we're doing a lot more, but how did that feel? I mean, I was already pretty relaxed because I was interviewing you. But on top of that, I feel even more relaxed. Like, give us an understanding, and I'm betting that some of the people who are listening also feel a little bit more present, a little less caught up in the inertia of the day or the moment or what they were doing before, if they followed along with us. What's the power of what has this work and it works so instantaneously? As I get older, I've been looking at different ways to keep my hair healthy and full because let's be honest, it's not just a cosmetic issue. It's about confidence and it impacts how we feel on a day-to-day basis. That's why I'm excited to tell you about the new bond-charged red light cap.

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controlling the body. I think a lot of us felt like that's how we work, that we were just brains and our bodies were just the puppet. And now we're realizing that there's a communication system both ways. And the reason I think this is important is that when you feel anxious, sometimes we're having a physical experience and we try to reason ourselves as to why am I so anxious. And sometimes we make up reasons like it means I'm not good enough. It means I'm not capable. It means something's wrong. But sometimes it's simply, well, all the times, it's simply your nervous system seeking safety. So what we need to do is not look at ourselves as broken,

but looking at ourselves as needing that safety signal. One thing that changed my life when I learned tapping was this idea that every time I would sabotage myself or go into old patterns. It wasn't because I was weaker than everybody else and because I didn't have the same willpower. The self-sabotage was misguided self-love. There was a part of me that did not feel safe.

trying something, experience something, doing something, standing out. And when we don't feel safe, we begin to shrink. And if we've been shrinking in our lives for a very long time, even when it causes us pain and even when it causes us heartbreak, we will go to that because our nervous system finds that familiar and things that are familiar feel safe. And so anytime, the reason this technique is so great for those who are really struggling, but those who are also just looking to expand their lives, there's no expansion without courage. There's no expansion without pressure. There's no expansion with a type of stress that comes with doing something that's unfamiliar. So we need to have tools where we can communicate with our body to say, it is safe for me to make changes in my life.

It is safe for me to try new things. It's safe for me to make choices that might be different than what my family chose to do. Every time we give ourselves that signal of safety, it makes the action so much easier. Yeah, so often in our life, it's thinking that got us into the situation. Oh, and I am the queen of overthinking. Yes, of course. A lot of people can relate. A lot of people can relate.

And a key quote from your book is, you can't think your way out of feelings. They live in your body. So if we're not present to our body, if we don't tap into the power of the body, it's hard to break that loop. And in fact, more thinking often just makes the situation even worse. Yes. And we're thinking so much and we're looping. because we are searching for relief. The reason we have an intrusive thought that we can't stop

thinking about or those thoughts that are keeping us up is because our brain feels like something is dangerous, something is wrong. And so it'll keep looping and looping and looping to try to find an answer, yet we can't go through that channel because there's two things that create stress in our lives. It's lack of control and uncertainty. So lack of control and uncertainty will always create the sense of stress. I mean, true, that's life. There's so many things that we can't control. There's so many things we're uncertain of. And so when we're lying in bed and we're trying to find answers for something that might happen in the future, that hasn't even happened yet, but might happen and be bad, that worrying, we're tapping into this uncertainty. And suddenly the only way

we can get out of it is not through thinking, because we're not going to find the answers we need. It's through reassurance and calming the body and allowing ourselves to be more present. This is great for those who wish they could meditate, but really struggle to sit still and to clear their minds because it gives you the ability to be present and have an experience and let it out before you are able to feel more centered. And, you know, going through your book, I was realizing, like, there's some pretty strong science around tapping and it's continuing to build. One that we were chatting about right before we hit record is how tapping, can you can have an immediate impact on cortisol levels.

Yeah. Right. Cortisol often gets a bad rap, but it's a beautiful thing in our lives too. It's that hormone that allows us to wake up in the morning and have energy. But too much cortisol always on all the time that's associated with this inertia that people have from modern life and carrying all this stress and overthinking is bad for us. It increases inflammation. It makes us feel burned out.

So talk to us about some of that science. Yes, this study was incredible. It was done in Bond University in Australia, and they had, this was a controlled group. It was a triple blind study. There was three groups. One of the group was doing tapping. The second group was doing a type of a talk therapy. So there was someone there teaching how to relieve stress through psychoeducation. So teaching mental techniques for stress. And the third group was the control group. They were just asked to relax. Well, it's fascinating. First, the Group who was asked to relax, usually when you relax your cortisol will naturally start to lower a bit. It actually went up by 2%, which is a surprise. And the researchers think that it could be because they took the phones away from everybody and told them to relax. And sometimes without the phones, the intensity of stress can go up. So their stress actually went up, which was a very big surprise. The group that was learning techniques on mentally how to lower stress, the cortisol did go down by 19%.

So certain techniques helpful, reframing things can be helpful. The tapping group, the cortisol went down 42%, almost double those who are learning about stress relief. This was done through saliva taking samples before and after. The researchers analyzing the saliva had no idea. It was a blind study. They didn't know who was in what group. But it was 42% average decrease in cortisol. So that was significant.

And that was also a replica study. So a similar study had been done years before, but the university decided to do it themselves. This is so significant. As you said, a little bit of cortisol, we needed to wake up. I love this podcast so much. You always have experts. And I can't tell you how many times a health, you know, a brain expert is like, well, here's what to do. And also reduce stress or a digest, someone who's an expert with digestion.

Do this, this and that and make sure you reduce stress. A health, or a heart expert, do this and that. reduce stress. So we hear it again and again, like the top experts in every field are always listing stress as one of the things you have to lower to help your body function and perform better. I don't haven't seen anything that has lowered cortisol as much as tapping with 42%. So we're seeing that. And we're also seeing people say, oh, I'm not getting migraines anymore. My back pain is better. My knee pain went away. And so in the beginning, when we saw these results, it did seem a little bit woo-woo.

I like, you know, how is it that someone who has back pain can lower their back pain and then someone who has stress around their finances can lower that stress and make better decisions? Like, it seems a little far-fetch that people are using it for so many different things. And I think in a way it worked against us because you're like, how are you doing it for all these different things? All it does is lower cortisol and stress. When you lower your stress, you make better decisions around money if that stress is like

the biggest stress in your life. If you're lowering stress, your body is able to start doing what it's meant to do, which is to heal and to recover. And so that's why if we're dealing with the stress and we're lowering it, the implications on your health, not just your mental health or endless. Yeah, so much of everything we're all dealing with, we're all dealing with different things, but so much of everything we're dealing with is made that much worse when there's that chronic stress in our lives. Yes. And then we stress about the stress, right? So we, so we had these experts say, don't feel stress. And then we go, but you don't know my life. And I have this stress. So actually, I did a, when I was pregnant, I did a series in our tap. We have an app called

the Tapping Solution app. And I did a series for pregnant women. One of them that's the most popular is stress about the stress because we also put so much pressure on ourselves to not feel any stress. And so, you know, you hear this, and this is why I love this technique, because if you've heard people say reduce your stress and you're like, easy for you to say, it's great to be able to try something different. Yeah, so important. We're going to get into in a minute.

I just want to give a preview to the audience. We're going to get into how are pattern styles, and there's a few of them. I think five that you've outlined in the book, we'll talk about them, play a role in how we uniquely end up dealing with this stress and sometimes even in our life become addicted to seeking it out.

So that's an important part of the conversation because tapping can help us at the top line but if we come with also this level of awareness that we have a particular pattern style then we can also start to dig even a little bit deeper and see wow, maybe I was wired this way

because of X, Y, and Z. So we're going to get to that in a second. Before we do, just a couple more big ideas that I want to touch on to set up the conversation. So one of the big ideas that I want to touch on is that most people are living in survival mode. This is a key concept you talk about in the book.

You guys say that common is not the same as necessary. When it comes to stress, stress feels normal because it's common. We all look around. It's common. But it's not how we're meant to live. Do you want to add more to that? I think this builds off of what you were talking about. Yeah, absolutely.

it's become so common, Drew, that I find that people connect over stress. It almost feels strange to be like, no, I feel great. It's important to know that common isn't normal because we look around and we think, well, everybody around me is overwhelmed. So this is maybe what life is meant to be. And for me, that's how I lived because I had anxiety. I don't remember a time in my childhood when I didn't have anxiety. I think some of it rooted from I had a speech impediment.

as a kid and I couldn't read as a kid. And I remember having to stay back. And it created so much anxiety because I always felt like I had to hide the fact that I had these challenges. That it meant that I was dumb. When we have these beliefs, what tends to happen is we seek evidence to prove that we're right. So when we're feeling overwhelmed and a lot of times other, we see other people overwhelmed, but

honestly drew these days, we're on social media and we're seeing everybody's highlight real. So we see everyone's highlight reel and we think, am I alone in this and feeling this overwhelmed? And it's important to know that one, you're not alone and yes, we're understanding it's common, but we have to do things differently. This day and age that we're living in, we are getting overstimulated constantly. We have something in our pocket that's buzzing all of the time. We have to be really proactive in how we handle our stress because it compounds so easily. So back to the point, it's common, but just because it's common, it doesn't mean that we need to live this way. Yeah, such an important thing to realize because we don't even, until we take a step back and we actually reframe and see the world as we're meant to see it, we don't realize just how much the collective stress becomes the way that we all think that this is how it all should be.

And what's interesting, too, is the first time I had a tapping experience, it was, you know, my brother Nick came to me and I was really sick and he's like, let's try this thing. It's a little strange. And he had me tapping. And I had this moment where I looked up and I go, you were pranking me. I'm going to be so mad. He goes, no, no, no, I promise. It's not a prank.

Just tap underneath your arm. Just trust me on this. And as I was tapping, I was tapping because I was feeling sick. And as I was tapping, I had this aha moment. And I looked at him and I go, I don't want to get better. What do you mean? What do you mean? You know, I get better. I go, Nick, I have been working so hard. I'm trying so hard. I feel like I'm doing everything right, but nothing is going my way. And the only way I can take a break without drowning in guilt is by being sick. Now, I had a legitimate cold. I didn't fake it. I didn't think to myself, I'm going to give myself a cold. But the stress and subconsciously, I had so much pressure on my body that it made me more vulnerable to get it. I didn't think to myself, I'm going to give myself a cold. But the stress and subconsciously, I had so much pressure on my body that it made me more vulnerable to getting sick. And so as we began to tap, I changed the focus to be focused on. It feels unfair. I feel like I'm doing everything right. Nothing is going my way. I can't catch a break. And I just,

honestly, I had a moment where I just felt mad at the universe. Like, I just felt like I'm doing all the things the book says. And as I did that, I just felt this relief. Like, it was almost like the moment you could like scream and just let it out. It felt like something was out. It felt like something was out of me. And I remember my shoulders. And I didn't, I realized, I didn't realize physically how much stress was impacting me till it was gone. And it was almost that feeling like when you have a really heavy backpack and then you take it off and you're a little bit like off balance because you almost forgot how heavy it was. That's how it felt when Tabin came into my life. It was almost like I didn't even know what it felt like to feel relaxed in my body. There's this coach to

executives, his name is Jerry Colonna, and he has this great quote. He says, you know, one of the important questions that we can be asking ourselves when it comes to these life problems that we experience these patterns is how have I played a role in keeping alive the things that I say that I don't want in my life? It doesn't mean that you 100% created it, but it's how do I play a role? How do I play a role in keeping it alive? Because there's always something that we get, even for the most destructive patterns that are there in our life. We get something from it, right? We get something from it. And that something is enough, even though it feels like we're shooting ourselves in the foot, that something is enough, whether it's

subconscious or conscious, that something is enough for us to say that even though this thing is painful, it's familiar, it's easy, it allows us to sort of avoid something, whatever it might be. It feels safe. It feels safe. Yeah. And The power of that is that when we understand that we played a role, we step into the law of responsibility. Law of responsibility says that it's not 100% my fault that something happened, but if I played even a tiny little bit of a role in making this thing happen, that's actually a good thing because I can do something to unwind.

If it 100% was not my fault, not my responsibility, then you can't do it about it anyway. And therefore, if that's actually true, you shouldn't really be worrying about it in the first place, right? But usually it's, if we're suffering, it's because we played a little bit of a role. We had a little bit of attachment. We have a little bit of a pattern,

and we're getting something by keeping it alive. And I think that's a great opportunity to talk about these overwhelmed styles. Okay, so I'm going to tee them up for you. We're going to walk through this. I think this will add to this conversation and help us understand why the power of tapping helps for each one of these styles

and we'll continue to build from there. Okay, so the setup for this, the explanation is, before you can change anything, you need to recognize how your nervous system shows up under stress. Overwhelm isn't random. It follows patterns. These are the overwhelmed styles. Let's talk about the first one. The human alarm system. Everything feels urgent.

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helps support the show. So that's Cozy Earth, C-O-Z-Y-E-A-R-T-H dot com. with the code D-H-R-U-P as in Drew P to save 20% off today. This is the thing about these patterns is we might, you might resonate with one or you might see yourself in a bit of all of them because they do kind of mix in. But the alarm system is where everything feels urgent. Everything feels like a high priority. Everything feels like an emergency.

And so you find yourself when someone has this pattern, their energy tends to be a little bit high, a little bit flighty, where they just feel like everything is an emergency. Everything needs to be handled right away. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I think that I think what you said earlier is an important point that you might see yourself in a couple of these.

Yes. And just zooming out big picture. This may not be your area of expertise, but you've interviewed a lot of different people. A lot of this, what do you think, comes from early childhood experiences that's sort of imprinted on our nervous system? I think it comes from early childhood experiences. I think it also are generational patterns. A lot of us act or react the same way that our parents acted or our grandparents acted.

I found that when I really started doing this work, I looked at it is what are some of the patterns that I want to break to not pass down? And I got it. My parents love this show, and I'm sure they're listening because they're your biggest fan. I want to give a shout out to your mom. Yes, give a shout out to my mom and my dad, too.

He loves your show. And they've been very good as well. They both came from broken homes. And they've been really good at it. It's almost like we all started doing this. work at the same time. But I say all of that is because you might notice these patterns in yourselves. And it's very common to go, oh my God, I'm my mother. Oh, my God. I'm my father. When you start to see this, because a lot of them are learned. Yeah. It's so important to

see that. But also realize that if you cut us open, you're not going to find these things inside of us. They don't have to be who we are forever. No, and they're not. They're not ours a lot of times. We pick them up from other people. And also, too, the other side of the coin, which goes even deeper, is that some of these come with really positive traits. Yes. Right? Like I often find if I think about the human alarm systems, you know, the human alarm system where somebody feels like everything is urgent,

that person often gets rewarded in a high-stress work environment because they take everything seriously, they handle things really quickly. But the question is, is it working for you? Just because somebody else's company is benefiting from this thing or just because of business is making a little bit more money, you don't want to destroy your nervous system and kind of, constantly have the people that are around you feel like they can't breathe or they have to walk on eggshells because everything is urgent all the time.

Well, you make a really good point. And it's important to honor that a lot of these systems, we have them because they have worked. So if you lived in a house where speaking up, there was a lot of tension and speaking up was dangerous, you might grow up to be a people pleaser. You feel like, you know, you walk into the room and you know what's going on in the room. And you're suddenly trying to fix relationships and fix dynamics. because you see it all. And now you're taking on other people's problems,

other people's challenges, because as a child, doing that made you feel like you had some sense of control. So it served you. But then as an adult, you realize, but I can't control what other people think, and I can't control what other people do. So I'm constantly setting myself up to be disappointed

because I have a pattern that at one moment felt like it served me. All right. The next one we have is the plate spinner. Too many responsibilities. There's always more that's there. You feel overwhelmed, but you're continuing to take on too many responsibilities. This is the person who says yes to a demand without pausing to ask themselves if they want to do it. This is the yes person of like, yes, I'll fix yes.

Yes, I'll do more. Because part of them feels like in order to survive to be safe, I need to be liked. I need to take on more things. The next one. The future borrower. Somebody who's anxious about things that haven't even happened yet. I think we all know somebody like that. We've all been there, too.

I've been there too. And sometimes this is why I turn to tapping. My husband will say to me, you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist yet. So someone in the future is thinking about scenarios. And what's happening is that you're trying, your brain has the best intentions. It wants to help you be prepared. But because there's so much uncertainty, we don't have a crystal ball. We begin to start spinning within the uncertainty and start to try to fix things that don't exist and worry.

All right, the next one, the absorber. Somebody who takes on everyone else's emotions. So, moms out there. We've all been there. Dad's too, I'm sure. But this is someone who is very sensitive. And all of these have a gift. It might mean that you're very empathetic.

And someone might look at this and go, well, what's so bad about that? I just really care what other people think. What happens is that you're constantly being drained of your energy. You're constantly being zapped. And part of that is this idea. of wanting to be seen and wanting to be needed. But you have to look at who you're spending time with and how you're allowing them to drain their energy.

A lot of us attract to those people because we feel like we're supposed to be the ones fixing and caring for them. I can imagine, too. I've never personally identified with this one as much as some of the other ones that are there, but I can imagine an absorber, the one who takes on somebody else's emotions,

they also are just deprioritizing the things that are important to themselves, and you build up just years of resentment. It's someone that you really love and you care about and they're having a problem and you feel like you can't feel better until they feel better. Yeah. It's a great way to become miserable because everybody around us, including ourselves, we're always dealing with something. And if we let everybody else's emotions, problems, be the way that we dictate how we feel or what we prioritize in the day, it's just I can imagine we can feel super scattered. This usually is with someone that we really love, which makes it more complicated.

So people will say, but I do want them to be happier. This is my child. I do want them to be doing better. And what I found again and again is when you begin to do this practice, you begin to take care of yourself, you can't give what you don't have. It's hard to give someone a sense of calm, a sense of peace if you're just there in the dumps with them as well. You have to be able to take care of yourself. and you'll either, they'll either rise or you're still the beacon of hope.

You know, you can't be, I think this was Wayne Dyer who said, you can't be poor enough to help the poor. And it's kind of like that for our emotions. We can't be poor enough to help the poor. We can't be sad enough to help someone that's sad. We're talking about these overwhelmed styles because when we see that there's a pattern that's there,

we see that our stressful thoughts, our feelings often tend to follow these patterns. We get better at catching them early and we get better at interrupting them with something like tapping, right? Is that a good way to think about this? That's exactly it. And in the book, with every chapter, what you're doing is when you hear different stories, you begin to see yourself. And oftentimes it's through someone else's story that we go, oh, I do that too. And the moment you gain awareness, you are halfway to healing it. I'm going to say it again, the moment you gain awareness, you're halfway to healing it.

It's impossible to address what we can't see. So being able to reflect is allowing ourselves to also have this compassionate view where we realize I'm not broken, I'm running these patterns. I think you said one of the most important words in this conversation. And I imagine something that is the end result of doing tapping, which is compassion. People are meaner to themselves than they are to their worst enemy. We have the meanest thoughts about ourselves. We're so judgmental about ourselves, men and women. we just love picking on ourselves.

And especially if you grew up in a house that was overly critical, you inherited this idea that, well, let me beat myself up before other people do. It's a way of protecting ourselves. You know, you actually have this quote that's from this section inside of the book where you go through these overwhelmed states.

You say, every pattern is your nervous system trying to protect you. Right? Every pattern is your nervous system trying to protect you. So even this idea of being hyper critical, beating yourself up throughout the day. This is you in some kind of crazy way, your brain, trying to protect yourself.

But we have to step back and say, hey, is this what we want? Is this really the way that it has to be? Or can I let go of this with some tools because it's not serving me anymore? One thing I realized the hard way. I was a very slow learner in this was that I can't hate myself happy and I can't criticize myself. healthier and I can't shame myself to make more money. For so long, that critical voice, I took a level of pride in it. I thought, well, this makes me a self-aware person. I'm hard

on myself. I have high standards. The challenge drew is that when we take that approach, we're able to maybe lose the first few pounds or take that first step because we have that pressure. But we will always find that if we are pushing ourselves and not dealing with these emotions, we will sabotage ourselves as this misguided self-love. We'll sabotage ourselves because it feels too hard. And then what we do is we loop into the pattern again and then we get mad at ourselves and we go, I'm just going to be meaner.

I'm just going to try harder. That's what I need to do is just try harder. And again, we do things for a little while and then we fall back to these old patterns. We have to change needs to feel easy and sustainable. If it's not pleasurable in some way, it's not sustainable. So what we're doing here is if we're tapping

on our resistance, on our stress, on our panic, then we begin to be more creative, more resourceful, and taking action feels a bit more easy because we don't have the pressure. And that's hard for a lot of people to get because we've lived a lot of our lives feeling like change doesn't happen until I put myself under an immense amount of pressure.

Lasting change does not happen with that pressure. Could you take us through an exercise for especially anybody that identifies with some version of this thought, which is that they're not good enough, right? Feeling like you're not good enough has so many branches. Yeah. And I find these days, especially with how ubiquitous, there's so many positive things with social media, right?

I get to keep up to day with my friends and see what they're up to in their lives, see photos of their kids, etc. but especially with the new algorithms these days, and they're really designed to, like, create extreme emotion or as a byproduct, like, comparison. And you may not be actively thinking that somebody's better off than you, but because you're seeing their highlight reels or whatever it might be,

because that's what people pay attention to, the byproduct is that your brain, your nervous system is left with this feeling of, like, well, what am I doing wrong? I must not be good enough, right? So I think in one way or another, whatever it's being, you know, caused by, people generally have, a lot of people have this feeling of like not feeling good enough or not being good enough. Could you walk us through a way to approach that? I would love to. And I want to take a step back in this topic in particular,

because this is something that's really surprised me in the last year. So I mentioned before that we have an app, the tapping solution app. What's been really interesting about that experience is that when you're doing tapping, you tend to ask yourself zero to 10. How do I feel? So 10 is very anxious, zero is I'm not anxious at all. And that is so that when you tap, you can begin to notice,

is the number going down? Is it going in the right direction? So we had that feature in the app. What we didn't expect is that it's such a successful app that now we have 18 million data points. So we have 36 million tapping meditation plays. 18 of them million have that data point of people measuring. This blew our minds. Nick created a tapping meditation in the app and it's called

You Are Enough. And it was just something he just felt called to do. He wrote it one day, he recorded it, and we put it out there. The results that people are getting with this with the intensity going down has been so profound that we've created a whole challenge around it. We're creating more tapping meditations around it. But this has the change that people are saying that they have from this tapping meditation. So it's called the tapping station app. You can do a 14-day free trial. If you try it, just go put in, you are enough and have this experience. But I'm going to walk you through a little bit of what it looks like. We'll do two rounds because what we want to do is allow ourselves to notice where the story is coming from, how we're telling ourselves the story. And then when you tap on

the negative, but as you start to feel calmer, you can begin to start saying positive things. You're weeding before you plant. So if I just said to you, Drew, you are enough and you don't feel like enough, you're like that's, ugh, yuck. I don't even like hearing that, right? You just have this reaction of like, oh, that's woo-woo and I don't believe in that. But when you start to address the stress around it and then bring something in more positive, it has this place to land. So when you're doing something like talking about not feeling good enough, you give yourself a moment of giving that a voice. And then you can start to move towards what you want to know, what you want to remember in those times. And that's where people are having incredible results.

So with that, let's have an experience together. So for those who are listening, I didn't measure before. Let's measure now. Just say to yourself, I'm not enough. Think about that. Think about what that brings up in your body. maybe you feel tension in a certain part of your body. And just give it a number from zero to 10.

How true does it feel? I am not enough. 10 is this isn't a belief. This is the truth. Zero. No, that's not true. How does it feel? I am not enough.

And we're going to do some tapping together. And again, I hope this is an invitation to open up to doing more of this tapping. But tapping on the side of the hand, simply repeat in your own mind. even though part of me believes that I am not enough, I acknowledge all of these feelings. And we're going to say it again, even though there's a part of me that is always pointing out my flaws,

I acknowledge this pattern and I give my body permission to relax. Side of an eyebrow point. I feel like I am not enough. Side of the eye, all of these judgments, under the eye, comparing myself to others. Under the nose, I've been collecting this evidence under the mouth to prove that I am not enough. Collarbone, I acknowledge how hard I've been on myself. Under the arm and this stubborn voice in my head, top of the head, that's telling me that I'm not enough.

eyebrow, maybe this voice. Side of the eye is just a scared part of me. Under the eye that's looking for reassurance and love. Under the nose and I'm open to the idea under the mouth that even when I make a mistake, I am enough. Collarbone, even when I don't have all of the answers, I am enough. I am enough. Under the arm, even when I don't believe it, I am enough. Top of the head. Even when I'm struggling, even when I'm stressed, I am enough.

And take a nice deep breath in and exhale. So notice if you feel any sensation in your body. Sometimes people notice that when they breathe, they can take in a deeper inhale. and just reflect and think to yourself, I'm not enough. Did that number, did the intensity go up? Does it feel a little less true, a little more soft? Notice if the number has shifted in any way. And sometimes when we start to do this work, the intensity can rise.

It's almost like the dust is kicked up before. it settles. And so if you suddenly notice yourself crying or feeling a lot of feelings, that is you giving yourself that space to process. So I want to say again, that was two rounds. So usually we're doing this for maybe 10, 15 minutes, but it gives you an idea of where we're going is not to just say, I'm enough, I'm enough, I'm enough. It's to honor the pattern and the experience and where we learned it. And what we're moving towards is, again, not just saying, I am enough, but saying to yourself, I am enough even when I'm not doing things perfectly, even when I'm stressed, even when I'm having a bad day. That's when your life changes.

When you're able to give yourself space for compassion and love and feel a little more ease on your worst days, that's when life changes. Super powerful reminder. You know, you talked about how your brother told you about tapping. Initially, he thought it was a prank. Your younger sister, they prank you all the time. And he had heard about it from Tony Robbins. But give us a little bit of the origin story. And where did tapping come from?

Like, who came up with this? It started in 1980. There was a gentleman who was a therapist called Dr. Roger Callahan. And the story starts. He was working with a client named Mary who had an incredible, phobia of water, sinks, oceans, pools, showers, anything with water would create panic for her. And they'd been working for about two years and not really making much progress at all. And he was kind of felt bad, kind of frustrated.

The thing about a phobia is it's very body-based. For those who have had phobias or big fears, if you have a fear of flying, you might tell yourself logically, it's more dangerous to be in a car. It doesn't matter. your body is reacting to that airplane ride, and it's a physical sensation. So in this time, he's studying acupressure points in kinesiology, and he learns that underneath the eye is the stomach meridian. And Mary would always say the same thing.

It starts in my stomach. I just feel it in my stomach. And so he began to combine what he was doing as a therapist, began to stimulate the acupressure point underneath her eye, the stomach meridian. And she had a massive transformation, and she got over her water phobia. actually found some old footage from a talk show in the 1980s where Mary went on a talk show and shared her experience and that even the next day she couldn't believe it. So they decided to meet at the ocean. She never even drove past the ocean. She was able to look at the water

and not go into that panic response. And it really opened up her life again. So Dr. Roger Callahan started teaching other therapists how to use tapping. And he was mapping out what points to use depending on what you're struggling with. Then comes a gentleman named Gary Craig, who learns from Dr. Roger Callahan and thinks, there should be a way to make this more easy for the average person to do themselves. We keep using so many of these points again and again.

So he mapped out nine easy to access points, which is what we do. And he called that EFT, emotional freedom techniques. So he began to teach people how to do this. And that is really what made it where an individual, individual could learn it online and have an experience for yourself. That's how Nick learned it. Tony Robbins mentioned it, but Nick went online to learn about it. So when he introduced it to me, he didn't tell me, I might have believed him more if he named Tony Robbins. He just said,

this thing I learned online, which like gives it less credibility. So that is how that started. And then when we came along, we really ran with it. Both of us and my brother Alex, who I wrote the book with we each had these very unique experiences on our own. It's very unique. It wasn't like we came together as a family and like loved tapping. We each had our own journey and experience with it. And then one day, Nick was like, we need to find a way to make this more accessible. We need more people to know this works. And so he said, why don't we make a documentary? And I go, that's great, but we don't know how to make a documentary. And we have no money. And he's like, that's okay. I have a credit card and there's YouTube videos and really I was 21 years old Drew I'm 40 now but we went on

this adventure to make this documentary film if you ask me to make a film now I couldn't make it but somehow we managed to do it and every time there was a block and I know this feel the sounds will come off corny but it's really the truth every time there was a block in the process because we had nothing going for us we would go back to the tapping every time I would tap and just call my nervous system, I'd figure it out. I'd get the idea. I'd find the next step. And it just showed me that as I wanted to expand, it wasn't about pushing. It was about using my full resources, my full intuition, my full knowledge, which isn't accessible when you're going, hey, I'm trying to make a documentary and nobody will give me an interview. But once you start tapping, you think, well, let me try

this other person. And then everything begins to change. So we started with that. And then we started to do online programs and now we have the Tapping Solution app, which has been the most rewarding thing that we've ever created. We have a whole category in the app that has, that's for first responders. It's always free. It's created by a police officer. There's this woman, Sam Sonnet, who she was a veteran. She was in NYPD for 10 years. And then she began to train the NYPD in counterterrorism, chemical, biochemical counterterrorism. So basically if something happens in New York City with a threat, she is the one who's there training everybody and leading the way. And when she was going to a therapist, her therapist said, okay, well, let's sit down and talk about, let's kind of break down every trauma you've ever had

to figure out, you know, we can talk through it. She goes, I'm an NYPD. In one day, I have four emergencies that are traumatic. And she found that tapping was the one thing that calmed her nervous system. And I think the biggest surprise to me, Drew, within this journey is how many veterans have written to us saying, I was out of Walmart, I went into a panic attack, and this was the one thing that helped calm me so I could catch my breath. And so that's how that journey started. And tapping was before done by a practitioner to an individual. But what we've discovered is that you can also listen to an audio. You can go to the back of every chapter has a tapping meditation. You can actually be led through an experience and your mind begins to

create those connections and you also can have that experience. And that to me is really empowering because you don't need to be one on one with someone. We have great resources. And the more you get comfortable with it, if you suddenly are like so can't believe your baby is awake again and you're trying to stay calm, you can do a few rounds of tapping. And it's like the one thing you can do when maybe meditation just feels out of reach. So people could do it. because there's an emergency they're dealing with, right? I'm putting that in quotes. There's something that they're dealing with that's an acute sort of stress situation.

Can people also do it as a proactive thing? Like people think about, hey, I'm not meditating because I'm in a crisis right now. I'm just meditating in general. Can you do tapping in that same way? Yes, and it's beautiful to do before a meditation. So many people share that they'll do a few rounds of tapping and then meditate and that they feel like it deepens their meditation practice because they've already calm their nervous system.

and gotten to a better state that they can go deeper with their meditation. So you can do it daily. We have this thing called the Core 5. It's my favorite thing in the app. And I do it every night. And it's five nervous system states. It's release, calm, soften, ignite, and center. And I will be like, what do I need today?

And I say, I need to center. And so I will just do six minutes. You can do it in the morning or you can do it in the evening. But yeah, I like to do it daily in the evening. moments of stress, but Drew, if you tell me I have to do something every day, I don't want to do it. So I don't put pressure on myself to do it every night. But I do find there's periods in my life where I'm like, yes, I'm doing it every single night. And then also it's like I'm in the car on a way to the podcast. And I could just be in the back of the car and just center myself before I get

started. Yeah. I mean, I've known you guys for a long time now. I think, I don't know how many years, but long time. Yes. And obviously, seeing people use tapping before they go on stage. I've seen friends that have talked about using tapping before they send an email that they're nervous about sending, you know, maybe asking for a raise or something else, but there's like these intrusive thoughts that are trying to talk them out of it. I've seen people go and do tapping before like a big, like a sports performance or they're playing, they want to show up their best, and they want to be super present. So you really can be doing it any sort of situation. I see it in the car a lot. People will do in the car. People are doing the

car going from one situation to the next as a way to sort of shed the inertia of whatever else they were dealing with to be fully present for what they're about to get into. So it really is one of those tools that you can use to set you up for anything that you want to be more successful, or if you catch yourself getting just totally plummeted by these thoughts that have just completely hijacked your brain. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no. No what if.

Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. I have a perfect example. I was working. This was a woman who was taking a course of mine. And she was one of those people pleasers, the helping everybody else. And it's very common.

She was a nurse. And so she had decided that she needed to begin to say no more to take care of herself. She was always the person everybody called for during an emergency, but she was never there for herself when she needed herself. And she had decided, okay, I'm going to start making my own wellness and my own health a priority. It's the night before a day off. She gets a call. And it's her work. And they say, Susan, I know it's your day off tomorrow, but you have to come in. We are so understaffed. We are incredibly overwhelmed. We really need you. Because she had done the tapping before and she was more regulated, she was able to say, no, I'm sorry, I really can't come in. Because she realized, like,

She was being a slave to her job. She was never being able to take care of herself. So that, because she'd done the tapping before, she was able to speak up and say it. But then something interesting happened. The woman said, Susan, you're breaking my heart. And Susan goes, just stayed with him. She was, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. And hangs up the phone. But now there's the thought. Susan, you're breaking my heart. And she found herself replaying it. Susan, you're breaking my heart. And so she said that she sat in that moment and she just tapped on Susan, you're breaking my heart.

Susan, you're breaking my heart. Because that rose, that anxiety rose again. And she said once she was able to do a few rounds of hearing it, she could think of the woman saying it, but didn't feel so tense in her body. And then it was beautiful. She's like, and then last minute, I got invited to a day cruise. I mean, this is how like life sometimes surprises you when you create space for your own life. She rode in going, and then I got randomly invited to a day cruise. And she spent the day out in the ocean and had the very best time. So it just shows like those different moments that you could do it before and really after so you can stay consistent with taking the action that you want to take. Here's another big one that people often wear as an identity, which is procrastinator. Oh,

I'm just a procrastinator. I leave things to the last minute. And you guys actually have some thoughts about procrastinating and this feeling of sort of people feeling like, you know, they don't want to deal with something, whether to be your taxes or your books. that you're writing that you never get a chance to, you know, work on or that you say you want to work on, but you've been putting off. What do you think is going on with procrastination? How could tapping be something that could help out with that? Yes. We hear it a lot. People say, I am a procrastinator. There's no doctor who's ever said, congratulations. It's a procrastinator. We weren't born procrastinators. What we can understand with procrastination is that there is a part of us that doesn't feel like it's safe to take action. So a really great question to ask yourself is, what's the downside of getting it done?

Now, when you first hear that question, sometimes it helps to tap, kind of get settled, and then ask yourself, because the first time someone says, what's the downside of writing the book? They'll go, there is no downside. I have been dreaming of this since I was a kid. I've been trying everything. There's no downside. There's just, then you go, no, let's think about it, really. Let's slow down. Let's tap.

What's the downside? And they go, if I finish the book, someone, will read it and they could judge it. Yeah, what if they don't like it? What if they don't like it? The book that's never finished is never criticized. And so that feels safe to not finish that thing. So another part of procrastination is that feeling of overwhelm.

Sometimes we feel so overwhelmed that we procrastinate on everything because everything feels like an emergency. Like we talked before that style or everything feels like an emergency. You have to be able to calm your nervous system enough to start to differentiate. differentiate what is the most important. What am I supposed to do? And then it's easier to take action. But if you find yourself procrastinating a lot, I would really meditate, think about that

question, tap and think about that question. What is the downside for me getting it done? And usually there comes an obstacle or a fear. And when you address that fear, taking action becomes so much easier. Couples. Yeah. Right? I'm going to get into couples and also kids.

I just had my first child, not me, my wife. Shout out to Yasmin, also a friend of yours. Let's talk about couples. How can couples use tapping? You know, often the first scenario is one person's into it, the other person thinks it's bad shit crazy. They don't know about it. Yes, totally, totally.

How can that be something that can help your relationship, the escalation, the other stuff, people creating stories and just kind of talking past each other? Relationship is all about communication. And when we're under a lot of stress, we are not communicating well. And we all know this. We've all had moments where we've been upset

and we've said something. And then we go, I didn't even mean that. I don't know why I said that. Or you press send on that email when you're anger or that text. Relationships is about communication. And so when you're able to deal with your anxiety and stress about a relationship, it often impacts the entire relationship. You can look at it like an equation.

If A plus B equals C, you change one variable. You're going to change C. If you change, the relationship is C. One of you changes. It changes. So that I see a lot where people will go. okay, I like tapping, but like, I'm not really the problem. It's my husband who's the problem. He's the one who has to work on it. And what I've seen again and again is that when

they work on their own frustration, they're able to better communicate and things just energetically change. When I mean energetically change, you're walking different, you're speaking different, you're showing up different, and then you're able to progress and move differently. And I also hear a lot of people saying, my husband finally tried it because he just saw that I was happier. And he was like, I want to have what she's happy. And so that also happens a lot. But it's so important, not just for relationships, but since we're going to talk about kids,

your kids borrow your calm. So so often people learn tapping and they go, okay, but I really need it from my kids. So how does my kid tap? And I go, okay, I will tell you how, but before I give you advice on how your kid taps, you need to do the tapping. Because I've seen again and again that kids,

we are regulated and we are feeling more calm, that the kids show up differently, that they do borrow our calm. So it's really always important to start with yourself. It's a great reminder that when we step into being less reactive, I have always seen tapping as a vehicle for your body and your nervous system into the present moment. The fastest way into the present moment is through the body, right? I think even Andrew Heerman has some sort of quote like that that he shared on this podcast when he was here a while ago.

when you're present, you are not trapped in whatever happened in the past. And the zigzags, and again, the word I keep on returning to is the inertia of some other energy that took you in this direction or that direction. When you're present, you can see every situation for what it is. That means that if you need to speak up with your partner, because there's something specifically that's there, your wife, your husband, hey, sweetie, I would have loved it if we could have done this. We talked about this earlier today.

I'm a little bummed out. It didn't happen. Help me understand, you know, is your day really super busy? How can I play a role? How can I help out? You just come in less defensive about the situation. Even when somebody else comes back super defensive, you're like, okay, cool, this person's just dealing with their own situation. I've been defensive at times. I've been reactionary at times.

Let me not react and not add to the drama, which is very hard to do, and we've all failed multiple times, including myself, when we're in a story, when we're not, present to what's happening here and we're interacting with somebody based on the past or our nervous system is so wired that the tiniest little thing that somebody does sets us off. Yeah, I have an example in the book, but it's actually an experience I had with my brothers. It was early, it was the early days. And I was living with Alex and I was away and Nick had stopped by and there was

a decision we had to make. And they made the decision. They were like, oh yeah, we think we should do this and I walked in and they go, hey, Jess, so we decided we should do this. And I was like, you had a meeting without me. You don't value me. I wasn't here and you decided to have this conversation. And I was really mad. I was like steam coming out of my ears. I'm like, this is so disrespectful. You guys don't value what I think. And they're like, whoa, whoa, that's not what happened. It happened organically. And I go, I don't care. You should have known. I should be in these meetings. And Nick goes, well, you should tap on that, which is you never want to say that. So here's a tip.

If your relationship, you want to tap, get them the book, but don't, when they're upset, don't say you should tap on it because it's another, it feels like another bypass. So he goes, you should tap on it. I go, no. And then that night, I reflected. And I go, all right, let me tap on this because I'm, like, really mad at them. And so as I was tapping and reflecting, I realized that there was this pattern that I was running in my life from my childhood.

And it wasn't a big traumatic event. It was a family dynamic. I'm the youngest of two older brothers. They would always be this team. They always decided what to do. They always had the majority vote. There was only two remote controllers in Mario Brothers. There was only, you know, I couldn't, they're playing one-on-one basketball.

All I want to do is play basketball with them. And like, there's no way. They're just like passing over my head. So there is this pattern of always feeling like I have to be louder. I need to be bigger. I need to be brave, I need to be seen because if I am not speaking up and claiming that I should be part of this, then I will become invisible. It was a family dynamic. And so when I saw that, I thought, wait a second, maybe it was this organic meeting. And because I've had this pattern in

my childhood, I begin to recreate it. If you begin to feel, like if you have a pattern where you feel like, I feel like everyone's leaving me out, or I feel like I'm the last one picked, a lot of times it's something from the past, and we begin to recreate it because we have this filter with how we see the world. So someone else will interpret that situation and go, oh, that's awesome. They were able to meet without me even having to be there, and they made a decision. Perfect. But I went in going, this means you don't value it, I think, because that was the pattern and the story I was telling myself. So in relationships, sometimes we'll grab something from our past and insert it into that moment. Sometimes it's with the same people like it was with my brothers. Other times could be a dynamic

with a parent or with a sibling that suddenly you're inserting into a relationship and saying, well, you don't care about me enough because you don't do this or you don't. We're creating these stories. When we're able to lower our stress and have a more compassionate look at our past, we begin to see what's in front of us differently with different lenses. And we start to take off some of those lenses of limiting beliefs and ideas about ourselves that just aren't true. Yeah, it's such an important thing to look at because you're talking about a very delicate balance of things,

which is that that is a story that you created. But just like you talk about in the book, you and your brothers, it's a story that was trapped in your nervous system, right? There's a section in the book, and it's a big idea that I've outlined here for our podcast. The past lives in your nervous system. trauma isn't what happened to you.

It's what your nervous system is still doing about it. So this thing happened, these multiple experiences, but it shaped the same way that we might go to a fence and bend it. Well, yeah, we bent it in the past, but that fence is still bent, and that shape is still there. And in that same way, if our nervous system is shaped by a past events and we don't give it the opportunity to relax for a second, to not be so stiff all the time,

then of course we're going to react to a new system. situation in a similar way because it's a defense mechanism. It's some sort of protection that's there. Do you feel like there was a combination of things that was going on in that setting where it was both your true feelings, and I guess it'd be a question for you, was it both like, hey, okay, I have this story because I've been left out and I've felt this way and my brothers probably weren't doing it intentionally. They're just boys. They're older. They're closer in age. They just do it. They're probably not even thinking about me because young boys just don't think about anybody else, right? Okay, so that's true.

So as a byproduct of that, I got kind of left out, and that was my lived experience. But then also, did you genuinely feel that, hey, guys, when it comes to certain decisions like this, I would actually like to be consulted and included. Was it a little bit of both? It's a little bit of both, but here's the difference. When I was triggered, I didn't say, next time I really like to be a part of this, because this is why. in which case they would have been like, oh, yeah. Instead, I said, you guys always do this. You guys.

Always never include me. This is what you think you're doing this because of this. And we do this in relationships. We interpret a situation. And sometimes we interpret it to give it different meaning. If now, you know, after that situation, because I was able to tap on it and I'm not so triggered, I'm able to say, hey, guys, like next time,

loop me in before making a decision. or just consult with me. And in which case, they're like, yeah, great. That's, you know, some people think we're a family business. No one triggers you more like your own family. It's just the way that things work, it's universal. And it's not that we're together tapping as a family. I think the key is that we each take personal responsibility for our own emotional experience.

So if I'm feeling triggered, it's my personal responsibility to address being triggered and to calm myself before I speak. and before I communicate. And that has been a rule for myself. If I am, and I think it honestly should be a rule for everybody, do not talk when you're triggered, because you're not going to say what you mean and you're not going towards a solution.

But if you're able, it doesn't mean that the situation doesn't need to change and something needs to change to your point. The conversation might have been, hey, I really need you guys to wait to make these decisions. But you're not able to get to that destination when you're triggered. Instead, you make it into this bigger situation and this bigger blowup, then the other person's triggered. Now you're yelling at me, and now you're putting words in my mouth,

and things begin to blow up. So I think the rule is don't send the email, don't send the text, and don't have the conversation until you feel more regulated. That's a great life advice for everybody, especially our world leaders and people in power and other things like that. You know, I had a great mentor. He's passed away a few years ago. He was a Jane Monk, and his name was Grudey.

Chitubhanji. It was one of the first Jane monks. I won't get into the whole history, but Jane monks weren't allowed to leave India, but he came to the U.S. and he set up some of the first like Jane Temples, which is a tradition out of India, philosophy, a way of life. He had this great quote. He said, nobody can change your channels unless you give them your remote control. And to add to that, my little ad lib version is that just the inherent byproduct of growing up with somebody, living in a family, you know, our family knows all the buttons on the remote control and we've given it to them, right?

That's why, that's why Romdaz has that famous quote, you think you're so enlightened, go spend a weekend with your family, right? Go, go spend a weekend living with your family, right? They're going to trigger all your stuff that's there because you've also given them that control, that remote control. But, you know, when you look at a lot of evolved families and if all families is not people that have something that's happened or genetically, they're just got it figured out, they're enlightened. It's families that, like, are really working through the shit. They get triggered. They apologize. They work on themselves.

They're constantly thinking about things. I like to think I have a family business. I work with my two sisters. We've been in business for many years now in different things. Very close with my dad. He helps me out with a bunch of stuff as well, too. You know, we have real just like every other family. That's there.

And then we apologize. We recommit. And we say that we want to work on it. And a big part of working on it is accepting that, you didn't make me, you know, triggered. You didn't make me do this. I feel this way. And then can I, in a sane way that leads to a productive resolution,

can I just express my feelings? Because if I also don't express and I hold it as resentment, that's on me too. Exactly. So I feel like tapping is one of those things that if it's not part of more therapist toolbox and working on these family systems that they work on, it really should be. It really should be. And I have to give credit to so many therapists out there because when we ask people, oh, how did you hear about the app? So often we hear people say, my therapist told me to do it before, between sessions. That's amazing. So a lot of credit to those

therapists who are incorporating this. And you're absolutely right. And this is part of the human experience. Imagine if we never had a bad day and we never were triggered. We, it's almost like if you don't have the bad day, it's hard to appreciate the good ones. And it doesn't need. that you need to live in the bad days, but I think we need to have a better understanding that it's not about, we talk about it in the book, that it's not about not feeling emotions. It's about not drowning in them.

And that's the difference. There's a reason for sadness. Obviously, grief is necessary. There are emotions that we have in this life that we are unavoidable. And so the key is not to fear the emotion or to feel like the emotion will take us down, but to be able to have a very honest experience

where we can feel that emotion and feel like we are moving through it. I heard someone say once emotions or energy in motion. So if you look at it as energy in motion, you're allowed to feel the sadness and you're allowed to feel the disappointment. And almost by giving us this really lovely way of feeling it, the same way that a child, they need to be validated and seen before they can feel better.

We need that same thing for ourselves. So you're allowed to have a bad day. You're allowed to feel sad. You're allowed. And the moment you're able to stop being so, hard on yourself to always have it put together. It's the great irony in life. When you are easier on yourself and more loving, it's easier to rise.

You know, people use tapping for all sorts of things. We've highlighted a bunch. But one area that we didn't go deeper into is that tapping has a direct impact on your health and not just, of course, cortisol levels are part of it. But when you think about some of the things that people struggle with on a health basis, you know, there's a couple that come to mind, and you guys talk about them in the book, so I'd love to just chat about it with the audience. So number one is this idea of people feeling regularly exhausted,

and where that comes from, and how tapping can be a part of that. So you guys say that your body reduces energy when it thinks you're under threat. Your cellular power plants are operating at a reduced capacity, and that's one of the byproducts of when the nervous system is taxed, you can feel just a general sense of exhaustion. You don't have enough energy to do the things you care about and you don't have enough energy

to give love to all the things that you want to do. Do you want to chat a little bit more about this? Yeah, and I think it's important because we often hear about the fight or flight response and we also need to see that another response is the shutdown response, is that we feel exhausted because when we have tried so hard and depleted ourselves,

feeling exhausted, feeling kind of dull, feeling a little bit numb is really a survival mechanism. It's to help us keep going because we're feeling so much. And so a lot of times we hear people say burnout is a common word people use. But it's this idea that sometimes if we're just feeling like life is a bit muted, a bit gray, a bit dull, it's our nervous system trying to protect us because we believe that if we look at the emotions under the surface, they will be too, overwhelming to feel. And so tapping is this beautiful way to begin to address this. And I want to mention the reason we realize this is a big part of the book is that we also do a lot of, we have a foundation and we do a lot with different schools. And a lot of teachers and counselors were coming

to us and going, this is great for anxiety for that high stress, but we have a lot of kids coming in who feel shut down. They're just not saying much. They're not. And so we began to create these tapping meditations for that state specifically and giving your body that ability to rise naturally, to address that nervous system by letting it feel calm. If you feel dull and tired, sometimes you think, well, I don't need to feel calm. I just feel dead inside. I need to wake up. But it's almost through feeling calm and safe that it's like that little spark that allows that energy to begin to build. Here's one that I'd love to chat about as we're winding down on today's podcast, which has been fantastic. Here's a huge one. It's a problem that keeps on getting worse. And a lot of our audience

can relate to it, sleep problems. Talk about sleep problems from your guys' perspective and how this fits into the nervous system and tapping conversation. Oftentimes, sleep problems can show up in different ways. So it can show up as having trouble falling asleep and it can show up as waking up sometimes at 3 o'clock in the morning. When it comes to falling asleep, our most popular tapping meditation is called Quiet the Racing Mind. because that's what tends to keep us awake. We start to relax our body and our mind turns on. And our mind, because it has a second, it begins to scan for danger.

And so it thinks about everything you have to do, all the overwhelm, everything comes in. And because we're stuck in our heads, it's really hard to just think your way out of that anxiety because you're in that loop. So as you tap before bed, you're giving your body this calming signal to say, hey, it's safe to quiet down. You're allowed to take a break. You are safe. And that's when we find that people are able to fall asleep. Then they have the challenge of waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning. And that is often this cortisol.

You can have this, when you have a lot of stress during the day, you can begin to have this cortisol spike around 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. So we're finding is that people can do tapping before going to sleep, and it's preventative that they're able to sleep better. And what's been so fun is that so many people have these sleep monitors now. So many people have the aura ring. A lot of people are tracking their sleep. And we've had a lot of people writing going,

I've been doing tapping before bed because my deep sleep has increased every single time I do this tapping. And I think that's just because you're giving your nervous system this kind of signal to calm down before you fall asleep. Yeah. There's been so many people that have come on this podcast, including Ryan Johnson, who's really said this is like,

if there was one piece of advice, health advice, this is like the crazy biohacker. But he said the one thing that I would be there is your resting heart rate before bed is a predictor of how well you sleep, but then how well the next day goes. And a huge part of that is just where is your nervous system, right? Where is your nervous system at? Staying away from devices, the super stressful lights, but most importantly than anything,

the reminder that you're here, you're a human being that's alive. It's like being alive is so precious. The fact that we get a chance to wake up and like give this a shot, even if our day didn't go perfect, which often happens, we're alive and we're getting a chance to try and we're here and our senses, we're present to the beauty of the world. And no matter what the media tries to convince you

or podcast, because they'll do that too, there's so much more beauty in this world than there is things that are wrong or negativity or all those stuff. That stuff exists. We can't, you know, spiritually bypass it. But there's so much beauty that's out there. And if we can be present to that and we can be in that safety right before we sleep,

you know, that's how we're at. actually going to sleep like a baby, right? Yes. And what I hear again and again is just the power of, and I've experienced this in my own life, transitions. So when I was speaking about Sam Sonnet, this NYPD cop, she would say that one of the tapping meditations is for after a shift. We also have after a shift for those in the medical field. We need to find ways to transition from work to home, then from home to sleep. We have these moments in our lives that were transitioning. and most of the time there is no time in between. So we're going from being stressed at work,

now we're just home, we haven't let go of the work day, we haven't transitioned, so now we're feeling the stress at work, but now we're dealing with everything we have at home. Now finally we get everything settled, we're lying in bed, we just go to bed and we're like, I should fall asleep. And we've been stressed that entire time without giving ourselves these moments of pause and to discharge some of that stress and energy throughout the day.

So I invite the listeners to start becoming aware tomorrow, Where are the transitions in your day? The transition before you start working, after you start working, before you fall asleep, because those are the moments that just a few minutes of tapping can really support you with. Jessica, this has been great. Any final word for our audience here as we wrap up today's podcast? You are not broken. There's nothing wrong with you.

All that you need is your own love and your own reassurance. Those are the best words ever. I couldn't think of anything else better to put a, stamp and a bow tie on today's podcast, which has been fantastic. Thank you. I know you don't live in L.A. You made a trip out here to do a podcast tour, so I'm honored to be included in it. By the way, you've talked about the tapping app.

We have the link of the show notes. They can go to the app store. They can type in the name of the app and tapping solution. Or they can visit the website. Yeah. And is that where they go for the book as well, too? Yeah, the book you can find on Amazon and anywhere books are sold. It's called ReWired.

Please check it out. There's a free trial that's there. You can give it a shot. If it doesn't work, fine, but I have a feeling you're going to love it. Jessica, thank you. Shout out to your mom and shout out to your brothers. Hi, everyone, Drew here. Two quick things.

Number one, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you haven't already, subscribe, just hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. And by the way, if you love this episode, it would mean the world to me. And it's the number one thing that you can do to support this podcast is share it with a friend. Share it with a friend who would benefit from listening. Number two, before I go, I just had to tell you about something that I've been working on that I'm super excited about. It's my weekly newsletter, and it's called Try This. Every Friday, yes, every Friday, 52 weeks a year, I send down an easy-to-digest protocol of simple steps that you or anyone you love can follow to optimize your own health.

We cover everything from nutrition to mindset to metabolic health, sleep, community, longevity, and so much more. If you want to get on this email list, which is, by the way, free and get my weekly step-by-step protocols for whole body health and optimization, click the link in the show notes that's called Try This or just go to Drew Perot.com. That's D-H-R-U-P-U-R-H-I-T dot com and click on the tab that says, try this.