Dhru Purohit Show - Oral Dysbiosis is Driving Disease, Popular Oral Care Products You Should Throw in the Trash, and How Your Diet Can Help Remineralize Your Teeth

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

This episode is brought to you by LMNT, Fatty15, and Levels. The oral microbiome is a foundational pillar of whole-body health and longevity. While modern science is just beginning to catch up, traditions like Ayurveda, along with Functional Medicine practitioners and biological dentists, have long emphasized the mouth-body connection. Without healthy teeth, gums, and oral tissues, systemic health inevitably declines. In this episode, today’s guests share how oral health offers a powerful lens into overall wellness—and why it’s time to rethink how we care for our mouths. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, we’re bringing you a special compilation episode featuring Dhru’s conversations with leading experts on the connection between oral health, chronic disease, and longevity. Dr. Staci Whitman breaks down the top signs that your oral health may be at risk, explores the root causes behind common dental diagnoses, and explains the link between poor oral health and chronic illness. She also shares actionable tips on nutrition, optimal eating timelines, and strategies to prevent oral dysbiosis and cavities. Dr. Mark Burhenne dives into why prioritizing oral health is essential for preventing chronic disease and offers simple steps to get started. He also walks through the cost-benefit analysis of root canals and explains why flossing matters, along with his picks for the cleanest, most effective oral care products on the market. Dr. Staci Whitman is a leading authority in functional dentistry. With a unique blend of scientific expertise and compassionate care, she's dedicated to creating a cavity-free world. Dr Staci is a triple board-certified in pediatrics, integrative dentistry, and naturopathic dentistry. She is one of only five dentists in the world to have her Functional Medicine Certification from the Institute of Functional Medicine.   Dr. Mark Burhenne is a functional dentist. He is the author of the number one Amazon bestseller The 8-Hour Sleep Paradox.  In this episode, Dhru and his guests dive into: The connection between oral health and overall health (01:44) Root causes of oral dysbiosis (05:22) Cavity prevention (12:41) The role of the Standard American diet on  the oral microbiome (15:55) Top factors that impact oral health (18:53) Foods and drinks that cause decay or promote optimal oral health (27:03) FYGG toothpaste (29:45) Hydroxyapatite and sourcing from reputable sources (33:14) Key supplements for oral health (36:12) Vitamin D and medications for oral health (39:09) How oral and dental health relate to longevity (42:14) A cost-benefit analysis of root canals (43:51) Dr. Burhenne's advice for taking care of oral health (52:15) Final Thoughts (54:49) Also mentioned: Full episode with Dr. Staci Whitman Full episode with Dr. Mark Burhenne This episode is brought to you by LMNT, Fatty15, and Levels. Right now, LMNT is offering my listeners a free sample pack with any purchase. Head over to drinkLMNT.com/dhru today. Fatty15 is offering an additional 15% off its 90-day subscription Starter Kit. Go to fatty15.com/dhru and use code DHRU to replenish your C15 levels for long-term health. Right now, Levels is offering my listeners an additional 2 FREE months of the Levels annual Membership when you use my link, levels.link/DHRU. Make moves on your metabolic health with Levels today.  Sign up for Dhru’s Try This Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi everyone, Drew Brode here. And today we're taking a deep dive into the most important area that often gets completely overlooked when it comes to your health. Your mouth. When it comes to the topic of oral health, it isn't just about cavities or clean teeth or bad breath. It's about how the health of your mouth mirrors and is a leading indicator for the health of your entire body.

Everything from heart disease to brain health, to immune function, to digestion, It all actually starts in the mouth. And in today's compilation episode, I talk with two leaders in the space of functional dentistry, Dr. Stacey Whitman and Dr. Mark Perhanna, about how the oral microbiome plays a critical role in true health and longevity. We discussed the root causes of oral dysbiosis, what throws your mouth out of balance, and how that impacts everything from your gut to your brain. We also cover why plaque, cavities, and gum disease aren't just caused by poor brain.

rushing or excess sugar. There's a few other things that cause them that we talk about today. And most importantly, we talk about how your diet can actually help reminolize your teeth and why some popular oral health products might be doing more harm than good. Let's listen in first to my conversation with Dr. Stacey Whitman as she highlights how the mouth offers critical insights into your whole body health and shares simple tips to support your oral health and protect against chronic disease. Tell us at our audience about some of the ways that our oral health is connected to other aspects of our health, especially certain incidents of chronic disease.

What do you know about? Yeah. So the oral systemic connection is very well documented in research and just more and more research is coming out as we are learning more about these specific pathogens and microbes and how they work together. But essentially, if your gums bleed, so I like to say if there's pink in the sink, if you spit out and there's blood, that's a sign that your gum health is compromised. That now is a way for bacteria in your mouth, pathogens, or even commensals to get into your vascular system, your blood supply, your lymphatic system. And they just catch a free ride and they end up in organ systems they shouldn't. They can end up in the heart. They can end up in the brain.

They can affect fertility. They can end up in your joints and lead to arthritis and autoimmune diseases. And so it's really important to maintain gum integrity. This is a lot like leaky gut, right? So it's the same concept of leaky gut. There's leaky gums. So you really want, that's a barrier from the outside world into the inside world. So these bacteria, not only do they end up where they shouldn't, but they do release toxins,

endotoxins, lipopolysaccharides that can create an inflammatory response, a cytokine response, and it's being linked to, you know, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, dementia, mental health and balances. It can impact fertility. It can impact pregnancy outcomes, rheumatoid arthritis, autoimmune diseases. You have to remember, too, you're swallowing about 2,000 times a day. And a lot of those bacteria are pretty resilient. They can actually withstand the stomach acid and get down into our intestines and kind of wreak havoc down there. So potentially leading to gut dysbiosis, you know, siebo, et cetera, et cetera. The root cause of all oral disease is dysbiosis.

And what is that? That means imbalances in your oral microbiome. We speak so much in the health and wellness world about the gut microbiome, but I think finally the oral microbiome is getting the attention it deserves. So what I look for as a practitioner are the usual suspects. Are you leaving with a diagnosis from your diagnosis? So do you have cavities, which is a sign of dysbiosis? Do you have gum disease? You know, when you brush your floss or your gums bleeding, that's a sign of inflammation. Have you been diagnosed with

periodontal disease? You know, when you hear the hygienist reading out the little numbers as she probes or he or she probes around your teeth, are they getting larger? That's a sign of not only inflammation, but attachment loss of your teeth. Dry mouth, tonsil, stone. ulcers in the mouth, there's quite a few things. So if you are in and out of your dental office, easy-peasy, no diagnosis, you're probably doing well. But if you go in and every time you seem to have a new treatment plan, you need a new cavity filled, you need to come back for a deep cleaning. If you're suffering from dry mouth, tonsal stones, halitosis, these are all signs of dysbiosis or oral disease.

You know, as a functional dentist and someone who's looking at root causes that are contributing to these, what are some of the root causes when it comes to some of the words that you mentioned? So let's start off with one of the basics, plaque buildup. Yeah. That happens over a period of time. You go to your dentist and they say that you have a ton of plaque or they're accusing you of not flossing, which some of you should be flossing. You're not flossing enough.

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is only available through my link. So you've got to go to drink element.com. That's D-I-R-N-K-L-M-N-T dot com slash D-H-R-U to claim your offer today. Yeah. So plaque is biofilm. That's a really nice way to think of it. And biofilm is bacteria. We know we need beneficial or commensal bacteria in the mouth.

So not all bacteria is bad. And I think this is a very important point that we can do. double down on later in the discussion. But plaque, it will get thicker and the biofilm will get more advanced depending a lot on what you're feeding your microbes. So your diet has a lot to do with it. So beneficial bacteria commensals, they love prebiotics. This is why we talk so much in my practice about the importance of a nutrient-dense diet, phytonutrients, eat the rainbow is what I tell me pediatric patients, because that's feeding your good guys. The bad guys, the anaerobes or the pathogens, they love fermentable carbohydrates. So think of all of these modern, ultra-process, hyperpalibital

foods that we love to consume. And the more we eat these foods, the thicker that biofilm can be and the more advanced the pathogens can get. Now, of course, hygiene has to do with this. What hygiene is, brushing, flossing, even tongue scraping, it's removing and disrupting the biofilm so that those bacteria don't have long enough to sit, attach to your tooth or to your other structures to cause damage. And they cause damage by metabolizing and utilizing these fermentable carbohydrates and turning the byproduct into acid. And it's actually the acid that's causing the disease. It's the acid that's causing the hole in your tooth or the cavity. It's the acid that's causing the gum inflammation along with the endotoxins that they can release as well. So mouth breathing also will

affect the biofilm or the plaque. pH is extremely important when it comes to oral health. We want to maintain an optimal pH. The critical pH of the mouth is 6.5. So anything under that is when enamel will start to degrade and breakdown. So we want to maintain, sorry, 5.5 is enamel, 6.5 is root structure. So we have to maintain a balanced pH. And if we don't, if we are living in a constant state of acidity, that will also contribute to a thicker plaque or thick old biofilm because we're creating this beautiful environment for these microbes to thrive in. So we're feeding them too much of the wrong foods, essentially, if we're breathing through our mouths, changing the pH, if we're losing the integrity of our saliva, which is very protecting, and then our hygiene is substandard

or suboptimal, that will increase our plaque buildup. You know, you mentioned cavities and all those things you talked about, those all, I'm assuming, contribute to cavities. And the question that I got from my audience was, okay, so if those are contributing to cavities, are there any things that I can do naturally to reverse cavities and, of course, prevent them from happening in the future? Yes, you're speaking my language. I see a lot of patients who seek me out just for this. Cavities absolutely can be arrested, which means frozen in time or reversed, remineralized. However, they have to be caught at the right time. And this is why we love preventative care. This is why we recommend to see a dentist regularly to have not only a physical visual exam,

but also the appropriate amount of radiographic exams, because that's how we can see in between the teeth and see the structures down in the root and around the bone. So yes, you can arrest and remineralize. So what's important to understand is our mouths all day long are in a constant state of either remineralization or de-mineralization. And this is normal. This is a normal process. So anytime we put things into our mouth, other than a more neutral pH water, we will have an acid effect. So there's something called the Stefan curve. And this basically just has to do with the alterations and pH in the mouth throughout the day.

So every time the pH drops into an acidic state, we will lose some minerals from our teeth through the acid attack and pulling it out into our saliva. However, if we're healthy, if we're balanced, if our saliva is optimal, and if we are not snacking, grazing, and eating these ultra-processed foods all day, our saliva will naturally, through the calcium and phosphorus ions in our saliva and appropriate enzymes, it will re-mineralize the teeth. So this happens all day. Now, the problem is when this state is in balance, when we are leaning more towards a demineralized state than a remineralized state. So we want to do things that help promote remineralization. That is through diet. That's through optimizing our salivary health through hydration and minerals and certainly how we breathe as well.

And so there are a lot of protocols and products and things that we can use to help boost remineralization for those of us who may tend to find ourselves in an imbalance state. But I personally am utilizing a lot of these protocols in my office, and I'm avoiding a lot of treatment, fillings, you know, root canals, extractions, and anesthesia visits in my pediatric patients. And to me, that's hugely important not only for the procedure, but the emotional experience, because so many adults have tried, and emotional health issues because of how dentists have treated and arguably over-treated their teeth

in the pediatric ears. So I think this is a really important conversation, especially in our pediatric population, where maybe we could be avoiding this overtreatment and creating these negative dental experiences for these kids. So I know you work a lot with kids, but let's say you have an adult coming into your office or at some point in time that you've experienced and you see that they have gum recession. and they keep on getting cavities, and they keep on having plaque buildup that's there. From all those things, what can you tell us about their diet, either what they're eating or what they're not eating? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to make generalizations, but, you know, I would do an in-depth nutritional assessment and analysis with them.

But I would either, I would be curious if they are eating more processed foods. The important thing to understand is not just sugar, flour is also a culprit. You know, even things, carbohydrates like rice and breads and pastas, crackers, chips, granola bars, these all can contribute and feed those pathogens. And a lot of this has to do with frequency of how much we're consuming them. So I would want to dig deeper and understand if are they eating more of a kind of a high-carb diet, essentially. But it's also important to understand that gut health impacts these things as well. So if they have intestinal permeability, if they have gluten intolerance, celiac, you know, CBO, this can all affect

how we're absorbing our nutrients as well. And so a lot of dental health issues can be nutritional deficiencies. And that's something I think a lot of dentists are missing. It's not just about hygiene and diet. There's a lot. This is why it's functional dentistry. And there's a lot of bi-directional relationships. So we really do need to dig deep into understanding the root cause, which it always is dysbiosis or microbial irregularities. But I don't think we can always say it's diet because I have lots of patients come in and adults too. And they're eating pretty clean. You know, they're doing pretty well. Their hygiene is decent, but they still have oral health issues. And that's where we need to dig deeper and understand, well, is it an airway issue? Are you a chronic mouth breather? Because that certainly

will contribute to oral dysbiosis. Do you have gut health imbalances? Do you have candida or H. Pylori in excess that can affect how we absorb minerals, fat soluble vitamins, and how we're utilizing nutrition, because that affects gum health, that affects our dental and tooth health as well. So what's really important is that initial intake with the patient. And mine's quite extensive. It takes patients, quite a long time to fill it out, but it's really necessary to fully understand what's happening in that individual. And we are all bio-individual, so why someone might have gum disease or cavities in dysbiosis could be very different than why someone else may. And so it's individualized medicine or individualized dentistry is really critical.

Are there themes that you can take from different patients to sort of rank and order what you're seeing modern. Let's start off with adults and then we'll talk about kids because I know you have a lot of expertise there. If you had to rank diet, mouth breathing, oral microbiota, if you had to rank all these different factors that contribute to poor oral health, which can contribute to poor overall health, if you had to rank them in order to your best degree, which we know is generalizing and every patient is different, their unique circumstances are different, what would you say would be number one, two, three, and so on? All right, I got a question for you.

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Yeah, I mean, oral microbiome is number one. This is why I really love salivary analysis. This is oral microbiome testing. It's usually a spit test. There's many different companies out there doing this, and it really is, I'm hoping becoming standard of care in many offices, certainly more functional dentists are doing this. But you essentially test this saliva,

and you can run chakra and metrogenomics. There's different ways to scan and assess for the full range and the raw data of what bacteria you have, and you're trying to see what balance, what balance of healthy bacteria, commensal bacteria versus pathogenic bacteria you have. So that's the first place to start. Because until we know what species of bacteria you have in your mouth, or it could be fungus,

Candida is a big contributor too. And we know that bacteria and fungus work opportunistically in the mouth. Until we fully understand what's happening in your body, it's really hard to create a treatment plan. So first, I say the oral microbiome. Secondarily, do you want to mention any names? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. The one I like to use is bristle.

They do use shotgun metronomics, and they're really assessing for all 700. Now it's almost 800 species of bacteria and fungus and archaea and protozoa in the mouth. And they will link it too to gut health as well because GI mapping can be important too. So bristle is what I use. I like it because it's direct to consumer also. We obviously want a dental professional overseeing these things, but unfortunately not all dentists are on. with this. And so it's really nice that consumers who are interested in optimizing their help have access to this information. It's just now it's like what do you do with it and who do you go to to get

protocol? So that's where you might want to look for a more biological or functional dentist in your area. There's other brands, oral DNA, biome is one. There's more and more coming out, but I personally use bristle. So I would say oral microbiome is first. Then I would probably say diet. You know, what we're consuming and eating, this is obviously how these bacteria feed and thrive. It's important to know we are born essentially with a pretty neutral mouth. We get inoculated with pathogenic bacteria from usually a caregiver, mom, dad, a family member. So these are transmissible, these bacteria. So we get these bacteria from someone in our community. And these pathogens, you know, generally if you're healthy, you're able to maintain a balance of these

bacteria. But if we're feeding them, if we're overfeeding them, these ultra-processed foods, these fermentable carbohydrates, you know, sugar, flour, and frequency of eating, they're going to thrive. And they're going to bloom and blossom and kind of take over. So there will be an imbalance. If you tend to eat more paleo or the Mediterranean diet, and I'm not advocating for any type of diet, But we do know if you tend to eat more, meats, fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, healthy oils, you are much less risk for dental disease. And so you're going to have a much more balanced microbiome. So after nutrition, I do think airway and nutrition is kind of tied together or equal, I would say,

but how we breathe really matters too. So when you breathe through your mouth, the pH drops, you're creating an acidic environment and creating this perfect, you know, perfect world for these pathogens to develop. So nasal breathing really is optimal. And I know you've had guests on speaking about the importance of airway before. If people are interested in this, the book Breath by James Nestor is a go-to to fully understand what I'm speaking of. But it is important for our microbial health to be breathing through our nose as well. and it helps with nitric oxide production.

It helps keep our saliva imbalance so we don't get zero stomia or dry mouth. You know, mouth breathers tend to have more tonsil stones. They tend to have more halitosis or bad breath too. And then all the way down is hygiene. I think hygiene's last. I hear some of these influencers. They tend to be more extremists, like the carnivore diet. People say, I don't brush.

I don't floss. I don't advise that. But the point is ancestrally, you know, we didn't have impeccable oral hygiene. And, you know, 10,000 years ago, we really didn't have a lot of cavities. You look at ancestral skulls. There wasn't a lot of decay. There was some bone loss or periodontal disease. But that means these species of bacteria are newer in our more modern society.

And they're getting fed and multiplying and expanding and spreading through our diet. You know, we're really feeding them. Would you say that it's the same thing for? kids, is that order the same thing? It doesn't matter, whether it's for adults or kids. It's the same thing. Yes, I do. I think it is for kids. The problem with testing an oral microbiome in a pediatric patient is their oral microbiomes are very transient because they're putting things from the outside world in their mouth so much that you can take an oral microbiome test at 10 a.m. And get all of these certain species, and the next day it could be very different.

So I do still think the oral microbiome is the most important part, but testing, we just haven't gotten there yet of how to actually test and create a database for the pediatric population. You know, I want to go back to diet for a second. You know, you talked about it's not that rice and carbs and pastas are bad foods. It's the frequency and somebody building their entire sort of diet landscape around these. You were calling it sort of a high carb diet. So if you had to, what would you say are, you know, we've talked about foods, but also a lot of my audience is wondering drinks wise.

Yeah. You mentioned something else. You mentioned baking soda. Uh-huh. How is that incorporated? Are you using it daily? Some people use baking soda instead of, you know, toothpaste. So talk about how you use it.

And if there's any corrections that you want to make out there to how you see sometimes people, you know, using it. Yeah. I don't think people misuse baking soda. A lot of people worry about it being too abrasive, but it's abrasivity index is pretty, it's pretty low once you mix it with water because how abrasive is something is how it could damage the enamel. So the way I use it, I put it in my water pick. Or you could create like a slurry with water and rinse with it at night.

So this is what I do. I'm a big believer in interproximal tooth cleaning. What does this mean? Flossing. And if someone said you're going to be on a desert island and you have to pick, you can only either brush or floss. What would you pick? I would always pick flossing.

Wow. I would always pick flossing. And this is because this is where I see the most disease. This is where I see the most cavities in both kids and adults. It helps with gum health. anorbes love areas of low oxygen, so they love to hide in between the teeth and wreak havoc. But I think, you know, if you're dealing with a younger patient, flossing alone is fine, but as we age, we do tend to get recession, some gum loss, some bone loss, and that is normal to some

degree. And so flossing isn't quite getting the job done as much as we need to. So I personally alternate. I floss one night and the next night I water pick or water floss. And there's a lot of data to support that water picking really is comparable to flossing. I have a lot of patients who are special needs or they're orally sensitive or they just can't floss, but they find a water pick to be more fun. It gets them excited about it and it will allow them to do some intropoximal cleaning. So when I'm making my water floss liquid, I add water and I add some baking soda into it. So that I do. get that buffering and neutralization benefit. And I do that at night. I'm going to give you guys a shout out. You guys have a fantastic toothpaste because I know you're not going to mention it now. You'll probably just mention at the end, but people are listening now. So I'm going to mention it. It's called FYGG, Feed Your Good Guys. I'm not affiliated in any other way than just I'm using it.

I love it. And so I want to give you guys a shout out. So that's a toothpaste that's made out of hydroxy appetite. And just a quick little mention, you guys are focused also, because there's, you know, now seeing this product on the market a little bit more, you're focused on making this more similar to like saliva and taking out a lot of the bad ingredients, emulsifiers, et cetera, you know, things like that, that could be potentially harmful for the oral microbiome. Is that, did I get that right? Yeah.

I mean, pretty darn close. Thank you. So yeah, it's called fig, like the fruit. Feed your good guys. And we really are an oral microbiome-focused oral health care line. That's our main goal. And we have added prebiotics and amino acids into it at the appropriate ratio to modulate the microbiome. So this is what we're doubling down on with our brand identity, if you will.

but we also do have hydroxyapatite because we know most of us need a little boost of remineralization. And hydroxy appetite, it's really exploding in the research and data. Again, I mentioned it's been around since the 70s. The Japanese and the Italians have been using it since then. It's pretty new to the United States and it's definitely still, some dentists are still warming up to it. But yes, we've removed all the emulsifiers, all their surfactants, all the effects, all the essential oils, which many people think essential oils, that sounds natural and healthy. Well, unfortunately, essential oils are strong antimicrobials.

So if you're using this every day, it can be damaging to your healthy bacteria. So we really want to move away from daily usage of antimicrobials. Now, this is important to know if you, this is where oral microbiome testing comes in. you may have some pretty significant pathogens in your mouth. Pigeon Javallis is a big one. That's the one that's linked to Alzheimer's and many other of these downstream systemic issues, and we can get into that in more detail. But you may need more tailored, more aggressive therapy.

So you may need antimicrobials for a short duration of time in stronger medicinal therapies, even sometimes antibiotics. But I don't like strong antimicrobials like essential oils every day. So that's twice a day. Every day is your routine toothpaste or product. So yeah, thanks for the shoutout. We're really excited. We actually have a varnish, which is professional strength.

I mentioned that earlier. So we actually won an award as Best New Product is the Celerant Best in Class Hygiene Award from the RDAH group, which is a hygienist group. And this is what I'm using with my patients to arrest and reverse cavities. And it's pretty incredible what it's doing. And we have comparative and clinical trials coming out soon, too, that I'll be happy to share with everyone. A couple quick questions on hydroxyapatite. We wrote a newsletter long ago about this before you guys had launched your product,

just talking about how I shared my own N of one experience, which was when I was feeling a lot of gum sensitivity because I started having some recession, which I learned from my biological functional dentist, Dr. Roshian here in L.A., I love her. She was telling me, I had a lot of recession on my left teeth in my lower left teeth. She was like, your right dominant hand, and you're brushing too hard. You need to switch to an electric toothbrush. And then also let's like, you know, get you off of like some other things as well. And then I naturally came across like hydroxy appetite. So I started using that. And my anecdote that I had shared with my audience was I noticed my teeth sensitivity in my lower left area. Like I drink coffee or cold things,

anything on extreme temperature. When I started using hydroxy appetite, like that went away pretty much completely. And I ran out and we went traveling. My wife and I were traveling for like a month or two and I didn't have the toothpaste available to me. It wasn't easy to get where we were at in Europe and stuff a couple years ago. And I remember that gum sensitivity coming back. And I was like, oh, man, this is so weird. And I came back and I went back to use my toothpaste and it went away again. And I was like, okay, I think there's like something definitely there for me.

And I wrote about that experience. So how is it that hydroxy appetite helps with the sensitivity that sometimes people feel with their teeth? Yeah, that's actually a, valid finding that's supported by research and there's a lot of white papers on that too with how it reduces sensitivity. That's actually one of the most amazing things about hydroxyapatite is that what people will notice. So hydroxyapatite, especially if you're using the nano particles, and I do want to be clear, it's really important where you source anything from, whether it's your supplement or your food, but also your hydroxyapatite and your nano, it can, it can,

can actually occlude and penetrate into the tubules because they're so small. So it's calcium and phosphorus ions that are getting into the tubules of your teeth, which think are like the pores of your teeth. And then it's occluding and blocking. And so that is going to help with sensitivity. You know, what you're feeling is nerve sensitivity from cold or hot or various stimuli acidity in the mouth. And so it's profoundly beneficial. And I would say, Drew, We should try the varnish to go down in there just to see if it will stay away from being bothersome longer. We're seeing some really great results with that.

But yeah, that is a legit finding. So another follow up on that. You mentioned, you know, sourcing and being mindful of it. You actually had a really interesting gentleman. I think his name was Ryan Nolan. You guys did an Instagram Live? Yes. And I kind of went down the rabbit hole of like looking at his content.

I thought you guys did one on Xylato. and all of its all the research around xylitol, I thought it was very fascinating. It echoes a lot of the same things you said here that xylitol can be, you know, an appropriate part of, you know, a hack, a natural quote unquote remedy, chewing some xylitol gum after like a higher carbohydrate meal or just as a way to like dislodge and returning the oral microbiome to like a healthier state, et cetera. And the type of, it doesn't, it's not sugars, but the type of compounds inside of it, don't feed the bad bacteria?

They inhibit bacterial proliferation. So they inhibit the biofilm from forming, essentially. Got it. Yeah. So another video separate from xylitol that Ryan made that I marked down as a question to ask you is that he said, hey, listen, some nanohydroxyapatite, you got to be careful where it's sourced from because there can be some heavy metals associated with this.

That's the first that I'd heard about this. Have you heard about this? And what's the skinny that our audience should know about it? It's kind of the Wild Wild West. And some manufacturing practices are substandard. And the FCCS in the EU, which is the Oversight Committee for Consumer Safety, they were looking at nanohydroxyapatite. They started some studies about eight years ago to see, because they were noticing it

was kind of blowing up in Europe. So they said, hey, is this safe in consumer products? So they started researching doing their own data, doing their own studies. And there was one nano in particular that they set aside because it was showing no concerns. It wasn't showing any concerns with penetrating epithelial linings or creating calcifications. And so that is now become the standard. And it has to do with particle size, shape, aspect ratio. This gets real nerdy quickly, but also the quality of it. And it has to do with particle size, shape, aspect ratio. This gets real nerdy quickly. But also the quality of it. to make sure it isn't rampant in heavy metals. And so unfortunately, there are some nanosufacturing facilities in other countries where people are sourcing their nanopharm where they have tested really high. So you just want to make sure you're asking your brand, where are they sourcing from? And I personally would only use a brand that's sourcing from and using Nanoxim.

It's N-A-N-O-X-I-M. and I'm happy to link, we can list all the brands that I know of in the show notes for your audience. We need the FDA to get involved, obviously. So we need some standardization here in the United States too. So this is where you just want to follow brands that are using ethical and transparent practices. A couple of things you mentioned that I just want to get a chance to tease out, right? Do you feel comfortable making any recommendations of where you want people at home? Again, check with your doctor and your practitioner, but where should they be shooting for when it comes

to their vitamin D? Because you mentioned vitamin D, vitamin K2, very important for teeth health and our dental health overall. So where do you like to see those numbers or what have you heard if you feel comfortable mentioning to our audience? I think, you know, traditional medicine I've seen be okay with a range between 20 to 40. I've even had patients come in. that are in the teens and their primary care. I was like, oh, you're fine. I like to see it more optimized up around 60. My doctor is even liking me to get up closer to 70 to 80. So that's hard. And we only know with testing. And so I do really like people to go and at least annually have a vitamin D test. Now, the problem is it's often not covered by insurance. So you really have to

advocate for yourself and ask for it. But I'd say 60 is a, is a, a great place to shoot for. I do see, and this isn't by no means saying how anyone should eat, but I do see an uptick in enamel defects in formation in children whose mothers were either vegan or vegetarian or they're being raised that way. And all my whole point with this is just to make sure if you are eating this way, make sure you're really optimal in vitamin D and magnesium, because it will affect your child's dental development. Yeah, I grew up. vegetarian. I had super poor dental health, and I was on braces, and I was getting cavities all the time, and just the whole nine yards. And obviously, at that time, I'm just turned 42. There wasn't as much

of awareness as there is now. I'm no longer, as my audience knows, I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but I think at least there's a lot more tools and resources, but it's still, unfortunately, something that you still see pretty commonly, even for people who are semi-educated. So again, we're not advocating for one thing or another, but buyer beware. Yeah, and just no, I was vegan for many years too. I was vegetarian and I went vegan and it had effects on my health. We've heard the story before. And I thought I was doing all the right things.

But what I wasn't really doing was testing myself enough. I just wasn't getting those metrics and those that date, those. data points. So that's the most important part. Just know where you are. The health of your mouth goes beyond disease prevention. It's actually hugely impactful to overall longevity. I talk about this in my conversation with Dr. Mark Berhenna. And we also get into the topics of root canals, which are a super controversial topic. Dr. Berhanna breaks down why they're necessary at times they can be, when they can do more harm than good, because they can. And what you need to know about avoiding irreversial.

damage. Let's listen in. How is our oral health and our dental health connected to longevity? Can you break it down? Give us a few top line things. Certainly. And I'm also very concerned about longevity, have been since I was too young to really worry about longevity. I would say that oral health has a lot to do with longevity. In fact, more than you would expect and highly underrated. And maybe it's all about longevity when it comes to oral health. So, I mean, let's talk about metabolic disorders, right? That's BMI, high blood pressure, triglycerides, inflammation, all of that. I mean, all these metabolic disorders that we're suffering from, oral health contributes to all of that.

It is very, very tied into it. So it's Alzheimer's, there's a connection now between high blood pressure, Alzheimer's, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, This oral systemic connection has been around all along, but now dentistry is waking up to this. So is medicine, so is functional health. Oral health is intimately involved with pretty much everything there is to do with dying or living a good life, living a long life.

And if you don't address oral health, longevity will be an issue for you. I mentioned to you that I had a video go just gangbusters viral. With my dentist, we've mentioned multiple times, Dr. Rosita Roshin. Rookinel. And it was on Roo Canals. And it was talking about the fact that there is like all interventions, there's a cost-benefit analysis.

And when it comes to root canals, this dentist, my own dentist, the dentist for my mom as well, too, my sisters. We've been going to her for almost 10 years since we've been in Los Angeles. There is advocacy work that she's doing to help people understand that a root canal is just not a benign thing that you just do and has no consequences that are there. Right. And people should be informed. So, first of all, you know a lot about this space. Can you just recap to the audience about why people might want to be, you know, having a

double take when it comes to root canals? Not that it can't be used because there are situations where you have to bring it in. But what is it about root canals that are potentially something that we should be a little little bit concerned about before jumping right into that. Right. Well, I'll cut right to the chaise, say poorly done root canal or root canal that is done on a tooth that has fractures in it that weren't noticed by the dentist can take you down. I mean, sepsis, death. They can cause leaking internally of bacteria into your body. It's a systemic infection directly from the tooth itself. It's a very difficult thing to do. It's very technique sensitive. And if it's not done properly or if it's done on a tooth,

that shouldn't be getting root canaled, it will fail and those bacteria will change. Again, it's like a biome and it will get into your bloodstream and it will take out some of your organs. It will require that you take a series of very strong antibiotics that could lead to ulcerative colitis or gut issues. Got issues. And so root canals do have a bad reputation, unfortunately. It doesn't mean that a root canal cannot work.

actually a dentist here in LA that she's a specialist. She's an endodontist. That's a dentist that does just root canals. And that would be my recommendation is that if you're looking at a root canal, get a second opinion, first of all, because sometimes, you know, people jump to the gun. Obviously, a dentist wants to get you out of pain. Sometimes they do the wrong tooth. It's hard to know which tooth is causing the pain. The need for root canal is based on pulpitus. We talked about it earlier, where the pulp inside the tooth is dying, it's inflamed. It goes through a phase have a lot of pain. Sometimes the pain will go away. Often it does because the tooth is dead, but the infection is still there. And a lot of patients and a lot of dentists will say, oh, everything's

fine. You survive that incident of pulpitus and the swelling went away. Well, then it gets you a year later. And all of a sudden, you're traveling, you're in a foreign country, and you've got a fever, and you've got a severe infection in other parts of your body from that one tooth. So it's important to get, I would say C and Adonis, get pulp tested, get the tooth pulp tested, get a 3D image of it with an x-ray. Don't rely on regular conventional dental x-rays. Find out what the problem is. Make sure that you have the tooth checked for fracturing. A lot of people will fall off the sidewalk or a horse or a trampoline.

And when they fall, the blow is not to the face, but as they fall, their teeth are clenched. and then the jarring motion is transmitted to the teeth. One tooth will kind of spider fracture. The way to see that is to shine a very bright light through the tooth. It's a transillumination device. Very easy, inexpensive. Every dentist should have one. If there are fractures, no root canal will save that tooth.

You'll have to extract it. But if the hard structure of the tooth is sound, there's infected tissue in there. If it's removed properly, if you use lasers, ozone, These are all the newer techniques that this dentist here in LA is using. But not all dentists are using. We use chemicals. We use just little files that have serrations in them.

We're pulling out that dead tissue. That's not enough. You're leaving infected tissue behind and over time. You really have to properly make sure that nothing is left in. Exactly. Just so what people understand, you're a tooth is dead. Yes. Or is dying.

You need to basically remove it, including the roots. Yeah. But you got to make sure that that's, you know, sort of cavitation, that little hole, that there's nothing left. Right. Because if there is something left, it'll see it'll, it'll, it can basically attract bacteria. Right. It can become infected and that can cause all sorts of problems.

We actually had, you know, a friend of mine many years ago that her multiple chemical sensitivity and some of her pots like syndrome that she was dealing with, ultimately after working with a group of functional medicine doctors and trying so many different things, lime, mold, this, that was connected back to a root canal that was massively infected because there was still some flesh that was left in. Exactly. And she had to go to a cavitation expert who then took it all out, opened it up, and disinfected it with ozone.

And I didn't even know that that was a thing that this could even be possible. So really it's the awareness you're saying is that sometimes root root. canals have to happen. Would you say that they're generally in our world today? Are they over prescribed? Like there's over? They can be. I mean, it, you can overprescribe many ways. You can be greedy and do root canals because insurance covers 80% of it and then you have to crown the tooth. Is that common? Does that happen? Hard to say, I would say it is common. It is common. There are dental sort of financial incentives. There are big chains and though there's certainly incentives but but a functional dentist, you know, someone that you've been going to for a long time,

they won't take advantage of you like that. Right. They're going to do the right thing because you're in pain. Right. I mean, private equity is... But the question is that many of them feel... What percentage of dentists have you had to guess, right? That are properly know how to do a root canal...

A root canal. That are in the larger category because pretty much every single dentist will do the root canals themselves. Well, dentists don't because they know it's difficult to do. Okay, got it. And certain teeth are almost impossible to get right unless you have a microscope. So they'll refer you out. Yeah, they'll refer you out to an endodonis.

But, you know, look, get a... second opinion, get pulp tested, get that 3D image, make sure you're seeing an endodontist, maybe get a second opinion from another endodontist, make sure there's a $30,000 microscope on wheels sitting in the corner. That's the best way to do it. Make sure they're using laser and ozone, all the latest techniques. And going back to the recommendations you shared earlier, another reason that people end up having cracked teeth that can lead to a root canal is grinding. Yes. Grinding in the mouth with which mouth taping can help with that. And some of the other components of just having good oral health to maintain.

If there are fractures in the teeth, root canal could delay the loss of that structure, but it could also complicate things. Certainly if it's from an acute moment, a fracture from an accident or a blow to the face. So root canals are tricky. I hate to admit that as a dentist, but I think in dental school, you're told that it's a fantastic way to be able to save a dying or dead tooth. I mean, in medicine, can we save dead tissue? No, we usually cut it out.

But the tooth is a unique structure. It has a hard shell. It's the only, I mean, you wouldn't do that to bone because there's bone marrow inside there. It's, and bone is living. Enamel is inert. So it has that outer structure. Can it survive in the mouth if it's sealed off from the rest of the body? Theoretically, yes.

Practically, there are a lot of problems with it. Absolutely. And obviously, the other alternative, which a lot of, that people don't want to do is you have to replace that too exactly taking the tooth out has its issues as well and implants are far from perfect you can get gum disease peri implantitis around an implant they don't connect the same way as teeth do to the jawbone i'm not saying you shouldn't get an implant but but try and hang on to that tooth if you can't a natural tooth whether it's alive or dead if it's dead hopefully it's it's cleaned out and it's sealed off that still has that soft tissue

ligament attachment to the jawbone it's still moves a little bit. You can still feel pressure on the tooth. Can't do that with an implant. Mark, this has been fantastic. You've given us so many recommendations. We've had a nice healthy back and forth on dietary approaches, which was great. You walked my audience and me through my bristle health test results, a nice direct-to-consumer test that people can find and have access to if they want to look at the health of their oral microbiome. And you gave some practical solutions to help us not only take care of our teeth, which we need our teeth into our old age, to chew, to have good gut health, to have all these different aspects, but also preserve our

oral microbiome because a healthy mouth and healthy teeth is directly tied to longevity. And you've made that super clear. I want to thank you for breaking all that down on today's episode. It's always such a pleasure to chat with you. And I also recommend to people. We've done a few other podcasts together. We did one where we've highly focused on malt taping, which we're linked to in the show notes. And we also did one.

We talked about fluoride in particular and the dangers, especially around kids with fluoride that will link to as well. Before we go into your world and we talk about the different things that you have going on that people can keep in touch with, any final and lasting messages for our audience. Well, thank you for having me on the podcast again and for your interest in oral health. It's not always a thing. And oral health, hopefully in this discussion, we can all agree that oral health is a big player in overall health, not just longevity, but in the quality of your life. You know, I really don't have anything to add other than you scrape your tongue, take interest in your mouth, smile, stay away from toxins, see the right dentist. I mean, all the things we talked about. But there are things that you can do at home that are simple and easy.

There are things that you can take out of your routine, like mouthwash. Don't spend the money in time. It's just, it can really make things a lot worse for you. I mean, high blood pressure. Who wants that? And by the way, when your blood pressure goes up, guess what? Your gums start receding. The blood supply in that tissue is so fragile and so tiny.

It's a microvascular. It's a peripheral blood supply. When the blood pressure goes up, those parts of the body with like kidneys, same thing, small blood supply, they necros, they die. And when the gum tissue dies at the edge, it recedes. So there are a lot of ways that oral health can impact your life in general. The mouth is about so much more than just where digestion starts. And doubling down on your oral health is incredibly important for optimizing your health and longevity. In fact, it could play a huge role and the key to unlocking better health for decades to come. And the best part

it is that it doesn't have to be complicated. With the right information, the right daily habits, there are so many simple tips and tools to support your oral health. If you like today's episode and want to go a little deeper, I go even deeper on these topics with my full-length conversations with Dr. Stacey Whitman and Dr. Mark Brana. You can find those links to the episodes in the show notes below. Please also consider sharing today's episode with a friend. Do you know a friend who's thinking about improving their oral health or has talked to you about how the connection of the oral health and oral microbiome relates to other diseases like Alzheimer's disease? Well, I bet they're going to geek out on today's episodes. As always, thank you for

tuning in. Drew Prode's signing off. I'll see you next week.