Dhru Purohit Show - “People Pleasing is Destroying Your Life!” - Anita Moorjani on Her Top Lessons Learned from Her Near-Death Experience

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

This episode is brought to you by Birch Living, Bioptimizers, and Bon Charge.  Is a life of fear and people-pleasing holding you back from truly living? Today’s guest shares how a lifetime of negative self-talk, people-pleasing, and dimming her light out of fear of being seen led her to neglect her body and its needs, ultimately resulting in a cancer diagnosis. Today, on The Dhru Purohit Show, Dhru sits down with author and spiritual speaker Anita Moorjani to discuss Anita’s cancer diagnosis and the spiritual and emotional themes she believes led to her diagnosis and near-death experience. Anita shares how she carried a lifetime of fear, unworthiness, and people-pleasing tendencies that led to significant energy depletion. She also discusses the life lessons and mindset changes she learned while in a coma and how she is navigating her life after nearly dying. Anita Moorjani is a renowned author and spiritual speaker known for her transformative journey beyond the brink of death. Anita battled end-stage cancer before experiencing a remarkable near-death experience (NDE) that shifted her perspective on life. Her bestselling memoir, “Dying to Be Me,” chronicles her profound journey and miraculous healing. Its popularity established her as the premier NDE expert. Her teachings empower others to embody their highest version and live vibrant, authentic lives.  In this episode, Dhru and Anita Moorjani dive into (audio version / Apple Subscriber version): The emotional and spiritual themes that Anita believes led to her cancer diagnosis (00:00:43 / 00:00:43)  Fear and people-pleasing as major energy depleters (7:50 / 4:20) Anita’s childhood experiences and the feelings of unworthiness (12:30 / 9:00) A diagnosis of cancer after a lifetime of neglecting herself (29:31 / 24:17) Why a death timeline can be harmful to a mindset (40:14 / 34:50) What Anita experienced during her coma and the unconditional love (48:12 / 42:58) Changing your mindset from victimhood to empowerment (57:40 / 52:26) Lessons from the Beyond (1:08:14 / 1:03:00) Dhru’s personal story on the transition of a loved one (1:17:14 / 1:11:50) The message spurred Anita’s healing (1:28:14 / 1:22:50) Navigating life after almost dying (1:36:54 / 1:31:40) How to die before you truly die (1:53:14 / 1:47:50) Lose the fear of death to live fully (1:59:39 / 1:54:25) Also mentioned in this episode: Anita’s Book Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer to Near Death to True Healing For more on Anita, follow her on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and her website. To get 25% off your Birch Living mattress plus two free eco-rest pillows, head over to birchliving.com/dhru today. Upgrade your digestion with enzymes! Go to bioptimizers.com/dhru now and enter promo code DHRU10 to get 10% off any order and free gifts for a limited time. Right now, BON CHARGE is offering my community 15% off; just go to boncharge.com/DHRU and use coupon code DHRU to save 15%. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anita, you are a cancer survivor. And in 2006, while in a coma of all things, you experienced a profound near-death experience that radically changed how you look at life, death, and what's beyond. Now, before we go deep, and we will be going deep in today's interview, into your story, and how at one point in time you were given, three months prognosis left to live, I'd actually like you to share with our audience a little bit about some of the emotional and spiritual themes that you believe contributed to your diagnoses. And these themes are often themes that people learn way too late in life. I'll turn it over to you. I love that question.

I love that question because I know that my tendency to be a people pleaser, because a lot of it because of my environment and my upbringing, my tendency to always feel that I wasn't good enough and to be a doormat led to me getting cancer. And if it's one message that I would want every single person on the planet to know, It's that low self-esteem, self-hatred, self-loathing, a lack of value for yourself can lead to illness. And not just any illness, but it can lead to detrimental illnesses that can take your life. And that's what happened to me.

And that's why I've made it my mission to share my story. People don't realize it. I teach people how to love themselves because that is so important. My tagline is love yourself like your life depends on it because it does. And people still question me and they say, isn't it selfish to love yourself? And I think you have no idea that if you don't love yourself, it can actually lead to you becoming so depleted that you can get so sick that you can actually die like I did. I literally, you know, and it wasn't even the cancer that was the wake up call for me. It was death. And I don't want people to get to that stage when it's too late before realizing

that they could have done things differently. Well, that's why you're here is to share your message, which is a big part of your purpose. And one of the messages that you learned when you were in the beyond, which we're talking about in a second. But let's pull on those themes. a little bit further. You know, anytime we talk about cancer, as you've been talking about your story, there's always different disclaimers because people have all sorts of strong feelings. Let's just be clear about one thing. We're talking about your personal story. Yes. And just because you're sharing your personal truth, you're not forcing it on everybody else. And even if somebody listening today isn't dealing with cancer, knock on wood, and the hope is that they aren't,

there are still important themes they can take into every aspect of their healing journey. Exactly. You're exactly right. And I make it a point not to try and convince anybody, if anything. I just share my story and I just share my experiences and what happened to me. But it's unbelievable the number of people that have resonated with things that I say. And I'm not, and again, I don't want to say that being a people pleaser causes cancer. No. I mean, other things. cause cancer as well. But I am saying that what I went through being a people pleaser, lack of self-worth, all of these things, they do deplete your energy. They really do. And navigating this world with depleted energy is very, very unhealthy.

You know, you mentioned people-pleaser, and you mentioned also in many other interviews and in your books, this idea of fear. What's the relationship between, fear and people-pleasing that was depleting your energy and give us a picture of where those themes came from from a young age? So I'll get to why I call all of that fear because basically in a nutshell it's fear of disapproval, fear of people getting angry with you, fear of not being liked, fear of being unworthy. So that's why I call it a fear, but many things fall into the basket of fear. And all of that is mitigated when you love yourself. So the opposite of fear is love. But I'll get into more of that when I give you a little bit more of the background of my own upbringing and what

shaped me is that first of all, I grew up in a very multicultural environment. My parents, Indian, but we lived in Hong Kong. Their second generation, they left India when they were very young. And so I was born outside of India. I've never lived in India. But we grew up in Hong Kong, my brother and I, we're very close. But my parents sent us to international schools. Now at that time, the international school in Hong Kong was, it was a British school, actually. And Hong Kong was run by the British. So all the kids and all the teachers in the school were British. And I was pretty much the only non-British child in my class. And so I was the brown skin kid and I was, and I was different from everyone else, physically, everything, a lot of things about me was different. I probably

had thicker hair than them. I was probably even, you know, even my body. I had more hair than kids who are not the same race. As a lot of brown people do. Yes. And so I would get picked on and teased very, very badly by the kids at school because I looked different. And I felt ugly. I felt repulsive. And also just things that even parents do without meaning to harm you, they don't mean it, but certain things that parents can say as you're growing up, things like, oh, if you did your hair differently, you'd look better. Or another one that used to come up, if you lost some weight, you'd be so pretty. And that would make me feel that I'm not pretty now. I'm ugly right now.

And so I would feel even worse when I was, when I would be in school with all these other kids. And I would hide. I was someone who was so introverted. And I would hide. I would never speak up. And I feared disapproval. So I went through a lot of years like that. I was someone who was extremely shy.

And if someone told me then when I was a teenager that you are going to be a public speaker, inspiring hundreds of thousands of people and selling millions of books, I would not have believed it. Like, I am the last person I can think of for whom that would happen to looking at the upbringing I had and what I felt about myself. You know, in addition to our audience being so fascinated about this topic of near-depth experiences, we also talk a lot about the topics of health and longevity with a lot of people who are true healers and experts in what a lot of people call medicine 3.0, the new version of medicine,

understanding the body holistically. And one of the themes that comes in in that topic is whether we're talking about cancer, Alzheimer's disease, any chronic condition, which are very complicated and are multifactorial, the one thing that we know is that many of these things, they don't happen overnight. The stages of dis-ease, which emotions are a huge part of as well, too, they can start even from a young age. What were you experiencing, just even if we take that word dis-ease, even if you weren't diagnosed with something? What was some of the discomfort and the dis-ease you felt from the youngest age because you were forced to live and grow up an environment that was not conducive to being friendly to you?

One of the biggest things that impacted me was when I heard somebody say it was a relative in my family, extended, not my immediate family. I heard them say that they actually said that my parents were disappointed that I wasn't a boy. Wow. And when I heard that, that really, I remember I was very young and it really made me cry. It was something that really affected me emotionally, that I, just me being me, me being born was a disappointment. And that hurt really deeply. There were other things that happened because I then closed up so much, I became,

so introverted and so shy. I think I was also a target for bullying. I do believe that kind of personality because your energy is so closed. And today, the way I see it is because I use energy a lot. I play with energy in terms of I know that when you have an expanded energy, you bring on different experiences than when you have a really closed off energy. So because of that closed off energy, I was bringing on a lot of experiences like I was bullied frequently. I was even molested by an adult who was known to the family and things like that, which I think really, really continued to erode at my self-esteem and my self-worth. And the other thing is that in the culture, the family that I grew up in and the extended family and the community and the

community, it was taken for granted that women in my community are groomed for an arranged marriage. So I was being groomed for an arranged marriage. And also, our worth, our value is measured by how valuable we are to the men in our community. And one of the things that you're measured against is how good you are at housework. And I'm going to admit this to you here. I was terrible at housework. So immediately in my own mind, my worth to men was like, oh my gosh, I'm being measured against how good I am at cooking and cleaning and housekeeping. But this is not stuff I love to do.

It doesn't come to me naturally. So it was all these kinds of things that just kept eroding at me. And one day, I gave in to my parents in terms of agreeing to meet someone for an arranged marriage. And after the meeting, I was asked whether I liked him or not. And I said, yeah, I like him enough to go on another date. And I was told that you can't go on another date. You have to make your decision. And so, and then the decision from their side came back as a yes that they did want,

want, you know, me to get married or they did want to put him and I together as a couple to get married. And that's when I was told, not even by my parents, but other relatives, that now you can't say no. Because if you say no, they're going to think you're really choosy. And that's what will spread in our community. And no one else will marry you if they think you're really choosy. No one else, no other parents will let you meet their son because you turned this one down after they said yes. And that's the kind of pressure that I would be under.

And so I did say yes. And then I realized that this wasn't for me. And so it became an even bigger fiasco after I ran away. broke up from that. Well, before we move on, I just want to acknowledge your story because in what you're sharing, even though you've gone through so many experiences, which we're going to talk about here, that gave you context and understanding, even for some of the people that perpetrated these things on you, it's still so terrible that you grew up in a world that does this to so many

young women. Yeah. You're one of them. And, you know, the patriarchy often gets blamed, but the honest truth that's, the toxic patriarchy, it's the toxic matriarchy. It's the union of just the toxic consciousness that's there. Exactly. It's not all perpetrated by men. It's not all perpetrated by women. It's the byproduct of a society that's unconscious. And yet we still have to acknowledge that I am so sorry that that's what you went through. And I'm so happy that we are living in a world today that somebody

like you can now take all these lessons that you've learned through these incredible experiences you had and you're paving a different future for so many. So I just want to acknowledge that in you. Thank you. It's a that gave me goosebumps. So thank you for saying that and acknowledging that. And I agree with you because all the men who are in my life today are amazing men. And I never want to actually go around blaming the men for what I went through because it, it had to be accepted and supported on many levels even by the women who were going through it and perpetuating it. You know, you mentioned that you grew up an environment where you were a chronic people pleaser. Yes. And because of being bullied, because of your constant disapproval from your

parents, and then telling things like we wish we would have had a boy and how painful that would have been for anybody that's out there, it puts you in a place of fear, prepare. perpetual fear. Yes. And yet somehow, even though in a traditional Indian family, your parents were trying to push this arranged marriage, which was very common back in the day, on you, you somehow got the courage to say no and you ran away three days before your wedding. Yes. Tell us that story, but first tell us where did that courage come from for somebody who was a crime? people pleaser. So it came from a place of really feeling trapped and cornered. And I wanted to tell at least one person before I went through with it. And I plucked up the courage to tell my mom.

But here's what happened. Bless her. My mom is actually amazing. It was my dad who was very, very strict. And my mom had to tow the line because of my dad to keep the peace in the marriage. But I went to my mom three days before the wedding and I cried and I said, Mom, I can't go through with this. And then I started telling her of some of the things that I had experienced while being engaged, you know, which she didn't know about. And I started telling her how I was being treated, you know, as a inferior because I'm a woman and because I'm expected to do certain things. And this was by the guy and the family you were about to marry into.

Yes. So I started to share things with her. And this is what my mom said. Like she hugged me and she said, I suspected something like this was happening. I wasn't totally happy myself. This is my mom saying this. But she said, I didn't want to put ideas and thoughts in your head if you were happy to go through with it.

But now that you've come to me. don't worry, I'm going to protect you. Wow. And so we just hugged and cried and she said, leave it with me and she helped me. I hid at a friend's house because she knew that, let's say, all hell would break loose because, you know, the venue was booked, people had flown in. This wedding was going to be in a different country, not the country where we lived. We had flown there. The venues were booked. Everybody was there. The families, the friends, the guests, the guests, the gifts were bought, the videographers were booked and everything. And you know how Indian weddings are, like the bands, the whatever, the horses, the fireworks.

They're a multi-day event too. Multi-day events. All the venues were booked. So it was huge. So she said a lot of people are going to be upset and they're going to be after you. They're going to say you're unreasonable, you're spoiled and all these things. So she suggested I go and hide. in somebody's home who is not part of our community, but somewhere very safe. So I did. I had a friend

who was not part of the normal community of my family. I hid at her home and I had to lay low there for a month until everybody left town until everything cooled down because everybody was so upset. Of course, the family that I was about to marry into were extremely upset and were trying to find me and stalk me. And yeah, so it was a huge deal. And my mom knew exactly where I was and would talk to me every day. And she took the brunt of the whole thing. People blamed her and said, she spoilt me. She should slap me and drag me to the temple on the day of the wedding. And she didn't do that. Your mom was your angel in that moment.

She was my hero in that moment. And my angel, absolutely. She still is on the other side, though. I want to pivot for a moment. We're going to come back to your mom. And we're going to come back to your dad and some of the lessons that you learn from them when being in the great beyond, for lack of a better word. I want to pivot to your journey.

of cancer and getting diagnosed with cancer and ultimately being a cancer survivor, but going through hell and back on the way there. But actually I really should say heaven and back. You know, you talked about this idea of being raised in an environment, people pleasing, and even in this moment, your mom came in at a crucial time in your life and was your angel, and prevented you from going down a potentially very dark path.

And yet still, the environment that we are brought up in, the experience that we have, they still shape us. And we have habits and we have tendencies. A hundred percent. And that people pleasing tendency was something that was still there that you were working on but was still running a lot of your life. Tell us a little bit more. Fast forward a little bit.

what were some examples of that in your life, even though you had chosen not to move forward of this marriage, you're still working through this theme that you feel was a big part of what ultimately contributed to disease later on in life? So yes, basically, I had been shaped to believe that I was unworthy and not good enough and needed to win people's approval. And I had been shaped to believe that my value was measured as to how useful or productive I was in serving the men in the community. So even though I started to go looking for a job and I would work, I never had the courage or to even dream that I would be at the head of an organization or I would be someone in the limelight. I wouldn't even, it's not even something that I would dream of.

And I was always in very subservient roles, even in work. I would go for office work. I wanted to travel. But the real me, the me who was inside was someone who wanted to be independent and free and earn my own money and travel the world. And I wanted to be a photographer, an artist, a journalist, anything that took me out there. There was this burning desire inside me, but there was this other part that was always, who do you think you are? Of course, you can't do that.

Of course your role is one of subordination. Of course it is. Of course it is. And so those are the roles I was constantly taking in life, in work, in every aspect, because that's how I was shaped. I was also taught that it's not good to be assertive as a woman. It makes you less desirable to men.

So I would not allow myself to be assertive or to try and get ahead or to attain my dreams. All of that were seen as traits that were not attractive in women. That was certainly the conditioning that I had. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone in our culture or our time. I've seen many women blessed from my time from the same. era who grew up to be amazingly successful people. But for me, the conditioning very much was, who do you think you are, who do you think you are, or it's not attractive for women to be so assertive. And very, very common, it was very common to see women who were succeeding to be

labeled as bitch. And I would see that happening all the time. And I would be like, oh, I don't want people to see me that way. And so I would curtail my own ambitions. You know, as part of that theme, many women, and I want to acknowledge that some men have gone through this as well too, but societally wise, this has happened to a lot of women, put everybody else before you. And one of the things that's very interesting about your story is that you had some people that were close to you that were diagnosed with cancer. Yes. And at a time in your life where you're carrying the baggage of how you were raised,

you literally drove your own health into the ground, taking care of them. Can you talk about that and set the stage for our audience? Yes, absolutely. So I, because I was taught to always put other people before me, I was always taught how to serve other people. And I was taught it was selfish to love myself or to take care of myself. So I didn't even know how to put myself first. I was always putting other people first. And then my best friend, who I grew up with, she was diagnosed with cancer. And that came as a shock to me. And so I started to, I was really shocked and I wanted to do everything I could to help her through this journey.

and she was told that it was an aggressive form of cancer. So I literally put my life on pause. And I was married at this time to Danny, but I put my life on pause just to be there with her. She had small children. I didn't have kids. And so I would help her and I would drive her kids to their activities. And her entire family were like, you know,

in other words, her parents, her siblings, We were all, and her closest friends, were all like on a roster as to who would do what, who would take care of her on this day, who would pick up her kids. And I was very much on that roster, volunteering myself for more time than I could actually afford to give. If I did anything for myself, if I went out with my friends or I went to shop for clothes, I would feel guilty because I would be thinking, why am I having fun? How can I have fun while she's lying there, you know, sick,

receiving treatment for cancer and her life is deteriorating. I don't deserve to have fun. I need to be there helping her. So I would spend as many hours as I could in the hospital with her. And I was neglecting my own life, my own health, my own family, my husband, my home. All of it was being neglected. And I have a dog and he was being neglected. And I just put my life on hold. And one day, after this was happening for almost a year and a half, two years, but I was watching her deteriorate, like she was deteriorating badly. I discovered a lump on my neck one day. And I had this fear like, oh my gosh, so I wonder what it is. I went to the doctor and they ordered a biopsy, and then the biopsy results came back that it was lymphoma, which is lymphatic cancer,

stage two. They did the scans and everything. So my first reaction, of course, was fear. And I thought, I don't want to go through this. And I was so scared because I was watching everything she was going through. But I had a secondary reaction of, ah, now I get to take care of myself. Now I had an excuse or a reason, a good reason that matched her diagnosis, her use. and where I could actually say, I can't spend all this time sitting in the hospital with you or rushing around and driving and doing things because I have to take care of myself

because I have cancer too. And I share this because I don't want people to have to get to that stage before they allow themselves to take care of themselves. But even with that diagnosis and even watching my own health, because over time, the fear of cancer started to set in what it does as I watched, and then I watched my husband's brother-in-law get diagnosed, and he deteriorated very fastly, very quickly. And watching this really gripped me with fear of my own diagnosis.

And so I started to go downhill and bear in mind there is, no cancer in my DNA. There's no cancer in my history, my ancestry. This happened, like, almost medically unexpectedly. And then my best friend passed away, and I was really, really devastated by that. That was a big blow for me. And of course, her whole family, her children. And And as my health deteriorated, when people would come and help me, when they would spend time with offering to cook food and they were offering to help my husband and me, my husband is amazing. He stayed by my side. He never left my side.

But when he would go to work and other friends would come over, I would actually say to them, no, don't go to any trouble. Don't go to any trouble. I was still more worried about them than me. And here I was really sick, dying of cancer, and I was still more concerned about other people's time than my own and them giving up their time for me. Can I pause you there for a moment?

Yes. I think right now in your story, there's so many people, men and women, that are nodding their head, especially individuals that might consider themselves, especially they feel, aligned or connected the word sensitive, right? Which I know you have a lot to say about that topic.

Yes, I do. We'll talk about that. They're nodding their head and saying, I can relate to that. Yeah. I was that person or I am that person. So zooming out just for a moment here, why do you think so many people in society today are in a place where they're constantly putting other people first, which nothing wrong with that. I love to put other people first. Yes. But they're doing it at the expense of their own

health and their own happiness. I think when people are really sensitive and empathic, especially if you're empathic, you feel the emotions of other people. And when you have been taught that it is better to give than to receive, that it is selfish to love yourself or its egotistical to love yourself, then it becomes very easy to fall into that pattern of not listening to your own needs and your own desires and only listening to that loud, empathic voice of yours that's picking up on everybody else's emotions. So what I try and do in my work today and what I do for myself is I have learned that not only do I, need to listen to everybody else because that comes to me innately, as it does to you and all

sensitive people. You innately hear and feel the emotions of other people if you're an empath and if you're sensitive. But what has to be a learned behavior is you need to learn to listen to yourself. And that is something you need to do, you need to prioritize so that you can be that well person in order to allow yourself to indulge that other voice which comes naturally to you, that other voice, which is that of listening to the pain of other people. So at this point in your story, you're talking about how literally people would come over to your house to check in on you and you were still more worried about them, which again, a lot of people can relate to.

Take us from there. Okay. So I would actually say, you know, please, you don't have to cook me food and you don't have to worry. And I never asked for help. And when I deteriorated to the point where I fell into the coma and was, you know, had to rush to hospital, my friends were shocked when they heard because they did not know how serious it was simply because I wouldn't impose on them. They really thought it was less serious because I was telling everybody, please don't take time out from your day to do this. Even my own brother who was phoning me from another country saying,

I'm coming to see you. And I would say, no, don't. Your wife and son need you. It's fine. I'm doing fine. I kept telling people I'm fine when I wasn't fine. So when I did go into hospital and the doctors said, this is it. She's gone into a coma. She's not coming back. Please tell everyone. And my family had to tell everyone and tell them to pray and to chant and to, you know, send me energy and do whatever it is. Because I was now in a coma and the doctors were said I wasn't coming back. People were shocked. And that's when people came to the hospital. And I heard people, you know, I heard from people later that they were crying.

They had no idea. And so people were praying for me. If they were Buddhist, they were chanting for me. if they were energy healers, they were sending me energy. And I was there on the other side. My soul had left my body and I was actually experiencing pure bliss. Well, we're going to get into that in a moment. But before we do, I want to talk a little bit about the period of time that led up to that.

Okay. Because when you were taken to the hospital, your family was told that you maybe only have hours, if not minutes to live. Yes. And you may not make it out of this coma that you had slipped into that morning. But even before that, a few months earlier, you had been told that you may only have months to live. Yes.

This is another important message that you have, especially for the health care practitioner community, which is on the topic of telling patients. And this is also a lesson that you have, or a message. I should say, for people that are going through a chronic illness, like a cancer, about receiving something like how much of a timeline you have left. Can you talk about that? Yes, I think that it's really detrimental to tell somebody that they have X number of months left to live because you don't know the, you know, like you don't know somebody's health trajectory because look at me. I was at end stage and turned it around.

But so in this case, what happened is the doctor told us that I had three months to live. And of course, it was really scary to hear that. And my health plummeted. I actually wasn't doing that badly until I realized until I heard him say I had three months to live. And you think that that actually kind of puts you over the edge and put you in a position where because you believed you only had a few months left, your body actually got sicker. It actually got sicker faster. And also the type of person that I was, I said to my husband and my family, I said,

please don't tell anyone, don't tell anyone, any of our friends, anybody in our community. I didn't want that to spread like wildfire. I didn't want people to feel sorry for me when they saw me. I didn't want them to be awkward as to what to say. But I looked really sick. I mean, I weighed at that point, maybe 90 pounds, but by the time I was in the hospital, I was 85 pounds. I already struggled with walking, with breathing,

because my lungs were filled with fluid. So if anyone saw me, they knew I was sick. But I didn't want people to see me. I didn't want people to come over. I didn't want to deal. And here's the other thing, because I feel other people's feelings, because I am so sensitive, I didn't want to deal with their feelings of what they were feeling

when they would see me in this shape. So not only am I dealing with myself, I'm also dealing with how they are feeling by my condition. You know, my heart. heart goes out to every person who's in medicine, you know, medical doctors, oncology staff, my own mom had breast cancer. This was like now 13 years ago. She's doing incredible now, and she went on her own healing journey. I had an aunt who also was diagnosed with multiple different cancers, ultimately lost her a few years ago. I was deeply involved in her journey,

trying to connect her with the right practitioners, navigating traditional medicine, navigating Eastern medicine, functional medicine, the whole gamut. So I've seen every aspect of it. And one thing that I do want to acknowledge, and I think you would feel very similarly, is that there's a lot of people that are well-intentioned in mainstream medicine who are part of a system. They want to do the best that's there for patients, but sometimes the system doesn't always allow it,

or they might have boundaries that they have to work within. Here's why I'm bringing this up. If you look at the history of cancer diagnosis, in America, which was a big part of where a lot of our early cancer detection, biopsy research, a lot of it came here in America. It was considered standard of care in the 1950s, early 50s, 60s, where a lot of this cancer innovation came from. It was left up to the doctor to decide whether or not to tell a patient that they had cancer or they didn't have cancer.

And the reason, and the thinking was back then, that if you tell a patient, especially somebody who's younger, that they have cancer, which was now exploding, and so many more people were getting cancer, that they could end up falling into a deep, dark depression or they could even become suicidal.

So you have some history of cancer in the early days where doctors would literally not tell somebody because they didn't want to scare them, scare the family, And that's unfortunate. We don't want that. We want patients to know. And on the flip side, so many people actually don't know how serious their situation is

and whether to get their affairs in order or not to get their affairs in order. And in hearing your story, the message that I took out of that with that history and context is everybody's guessing. Nobody knows for sure, even if they're well-intentioned, even if they think, think they're trying to do the right thing. So take it all with the grain of salt or maybe even have the conversation with your practitioner as to what you want to hear and don't want to hear for them because potentially some of that could shape how you progress moving forward from there. Is that accurate? That's accurate. That's a very good way of putting it. Nobody can tell you for

sure, absolutely nobody. And I think that even when doctors do it, they are well-meaning. My doctor was very well-meaning. The doctors who treated me were very nice human beings. They were kind, but yet knowing what I know today, I would actually suggest to doctors to do things differently because I know how it feels to receive news like that. So there's a lot of things. things that is normal within our medical paradigm that I would do differently knowing what I know, having gone through what I've gone through, I would request to do things very, very differently. If a loved one of mine was going through cancer, I would know, I mean, and I do this all the time with people who, with the workshops, with my videos and so on, I give people alternative suggestions

of how they can create their journey. And one of the things that I tell people is that what you have been doing until now up to this point, the trajectory of your life up to this point, has got you to this point getting this diagnosis. But you can change the trajectory of your life. What the doctor has just told you is that if you keep going the way you've been going, This is how long you have to live. But you don't have to keep going the way you've been going.

That is where your choice comes in. You can change your lifestyle completely. You can make 180 degree change as to how you live your life moving forward. And it really means going on a journey of self-discovery, of uncovering and releasing even past traumas, changing your diet, changing your lifestyle, changing your sleep habits. It might mean quitting your job. It might mean leaving a relationship. The question is how many people are willing to do those things, but you can change the trajectory

of your life, which could actually heal you. That's what I like to tell people. Take us to this moment that you slipped in the coma. Yes. Your family brought you to the hospital. They're telling your family, which was based on the, the best evidence that they had at the time. Yes.

You're in a coma. Your body had withered away because it was nutrient depleted. Yes, it was. And you are now in a situation where your family is being told, you have hours, if not minutes. You may not even make it through the night. Yes. What was going on with you and what were you experiencing at this time?

People are listening and they're like, you were in a coma. So why are you asking her what she was experiencing? and yet you were experiencing something. What was that? I was experiencing absolute bliss. And I just want to add one more layer to the picture of me lying there in the coma. My body was completely wasted away. The lymphoma had spread to the point where I had tumors, the size of golf balls, from the base of my skull, all around my neck, under my arms, in my chest, and all the way down to my. abdomen. So I just wanted to give a kind of a tangible visual as to what was going on in my body.

And my lungs were filled with fluid and I had open skin lesions and I couldn't walk and I had no strength in my body. It was like a skeleton. And so, but here I was in a coma and I was feeling absolutely blissful and light and free. And it was like I had left. my body and I was aware that my physical body was lying on that hospital bed dying. But I felt incredible, like powerful. And I don't recall ever feeling like that ever before in physical life because I felt light. I felt free and powerful. And my body, looked small and insignificant compared to how I was now feeling. And even as I was aware of my physical body,

and I was aware of my distraught family members, and I wanted them to know that I was fine, I was doing great, but I wasn't able to communicate with them because I had no biology, I had no vocal cords. I was just an essence. And I wasn't even viewing through physical eyes because I didn't have eyes. It's more like an awareness, like a 360-degree peripheral vision. But as I became accustomed to being in that state,

I realized also that what I was aware of was beyond the four walls of the room. It was outside of the room. And I was aware of everything, the doctors, the nurses, what they were doing to my physical body, they were taking the fluid out of my lungs and they were poking needles and tubes. And the conversations, I could hear the conversations they were having with my family, telling them that I won't even make it through the night and to call everybody that needed to know this. And then I even remember being able to see or be able to be. aware of my brother, who was in a different country, being shocked and trying to get on a flight

to come and see me. And I actually was aware of wanting to keep my body alive, to stay alive, at least until my brother got here, because I knew he would be distraught if he felt that he didn't get here in time. So I was aware that I was actually able to keep my body alive, even though I was not in the body. And then I became aware of other beings. And I felt this feeling of just being so unconditionally loved, something I'd never felt in my life. I always felt I had to work for it or earn it.

But I was surrounded by these beings, including my deceased dad. My dad had been deceased 10 years, my best friend who had died of cancer two years prior. And there were other beings who I didn't recognize from this lifetime. And all I felt from them was pure, unconditional love. Nothing like I had ever felt before. And I felt safe. And I felt like I'd come home. In fact, some of those beings, including your father, they had some messages for you. Yeah, huge messages. So my, My father, my dad, first of all, it was like he wanted me to know that he had always loved me unconditionally.

And just like I had been shaped by my culture, he had also been shaped by the culture and was doing his best. He was doing the best that he knew how. And this was the only way he knew how to bring up daughters. and my dad wanted me to know that he loved me unconditionally. And I actually reached a point where I felt I was given a choice as to whether I wanted to come back or to stay in that realm. No part of me wanted to come back because my body was sick and dying. I was suffering.

My family was suffering, taking care of me. so I really wanted to stay there. And then it was my dad who said to me that you have some gifts waiting for you. And if you go back, your body will heal very, very quickly. Now that you know the truth of who you really are, your body will heal very quickly. And him saying, now that you know the truth of who I really am, was really, what it meant is that the truth of that I am loved, I don't need to, I'm loved as I am unconditionally. I don't need to keep working at trying to meet everybody's approval. That's basically how I had

lived my life up to that point. I was always doing what everyone else wanted and I thought that's the only way to fit in. A part of that came from being. at school and being of a different race and culture and nationality and feeling that I constantly had to try and fit in. I had to meet everyone's approval to fit in. And so I grew up with that conditioning. And for the first time I realized that we are amazing, unique, beautiful souls. You know, it's like I spent my whole life serving other people and seeing God in everybody else's eyes. This was the first time I learned to see God in my own eyes. And it was the first time I understood that my soul is also an expression of God

and deserves to be here and to be all that it came here to be. It was the first time I realized that. I've heard you share that growing up as a young woman into becoming an adult, you thought of yourself as very spiritual. Yes. You would go to the temple. You would read spiritual things. You would read religious text.

You would do things. But that was often from a place of exploring spirituality and your relationship with the divine from a place of fear. Yeah. Yes. because I grew up also with, I was multicultural, so I was into different religious and spiritual teachings. But there was a common theme, the common theme being that you have to do good in this life so that you can have a good afterlife. It's like in Christianity, you have to do good

so you can get to heaven. In Hinduism, it's you have to build up good karma. so you can have good karma in the next life. So even when I was sick, and I felt as if I was trying everything to heal my illness, people would tell me that, oh, it's your karma. It's your karma. So you have to do more good work. Now keep this in mind. I am already a people pleaser, a doormat that puts everyone else ahead of myself.

And you tell someone like that you have to do even more good work and be even more selfless. that and I did because I thought that's the only way oh it means I'm still not good enough I have to do even more that completely took me over the top and depleted me yeah that's such an important message because if somebody hears from just the first layer some of the things you've been talking about while we're still pulling on your story there's so much more to tell over here they can hear that you saying the things that you've been doing up until this point contributed to your diagnosis they can hear the equivalent of somebody in the Indian community saying, hey, you got cancer because you have bad karma and you have to do good karma, right?

They hear a blame inside of that. Tell us how that's not what you're talking about here. You're not putting blame on people. You're talking about something else. What is that thing that you're talking about? So I am not putting blame, you mean not putting blame on the person who has cancer. Who has a diagnosis, exactly. I would never blame somebody who has the diagnosis because you never, we're all operating

from what we know. It's never, ever, ever your fault when you get a diagnosis. It's never your fault if you're sick, never. However, you always have choices as to how you can move your life forward and how to heal or how to view what has happened to you. The one thing that I would like people to know, even though it is not your fault, it doesn't serve you to believe that you are a victim of your circumstances. It actually serves you better and empowers you more when you know that you do have. have a lot of autonomy over the choices in your life. And you do have a lot of free will in the choices and the path that you're going to take next. So it's not your fault you are where you are,

but you still have a lot of choices as to where you want to go or what you want to do with where you are right now. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that everybody's going to heal. That's not what you're saying. It just means that there are things that you can do. And even if those things radically improve your mindset on your journey and help you reclaim your power so you can tell the people who are around you how to better support you and what you need on this incredibly difficult road to healing or navigating a cancer diagnosis or any other diagnosis. That is the message that's there is that you are in the driver's seat and don't let anybody tell you or not so that you can always direct and tell other people what you need on

this journey. Exactly. And I want people to know that if you have lost a loved one, it's not their fault and they did not lose the battle. Because what if, you know, because the other side is so amazing and so beautiful, what if actually the people who get to cross over are actually the ones who won the battle? It's so beautiful on the other side. Maybe I'm the one that lost and got sent back. So never feel that your loved one lost the battle. I don't even like using the term battle when people say that, that when they say, unfortunately, so and so lost the battle. No, they've actually evolved and gone on to somewhere bigger, better, and more beautiful, where they can still continue to guide us and maybe do more from that side than they could

ever have done here. How would you describe this realm? And I know words are limited. So you often will use analogies to describe this place that you're in where you don't have physical control of your body. You can't talk. You can't move your vocal cords. You can't move your hands. You have an awareness of what's happening around you. In fact, in a very beautiful and eerie way, you actually have awareness of what's happening in other parts of the room. We're going to talk about that in a second.

and you have these messages which are coming again, for lack of a better term, from another place. You're having a conversation with your dad. How would you describe where you were during that moment? So it didn't feel like I had actually gone somewhere different. It felt like a whole world opened up to me. And I sometimes use the analogy of a warehouse. And this is how I would describe it because, you know, there are no words to describe it. There's no language we've developed to describe what we call the other side.

And it isn't even another side. It's right here. It's like another dimension which our sensory organs cannot pick up, cannot read, see, feel, touch. It's like an in-between. Yes, it's like an in-between. And so this whole world open up. And in this analogy I use, I would invite you to imagine that you have this little flashlight and it's pitch black.

You're in a pitch-black room completely dark except for this little flashlight you have in your hand. And so you're navigating your way around this room with this little flashlight. And you're shining this flashlight maybe up on the walls or down on the floor and you're navigating your way. And the only things that you're able to see is what you shine this flashlight on. And so you're only aware of things in the room that you have shone your flashlight on at some point or another. Now, imagine if one day the lights go on and you realize that this room is huge. It's way bigger than you could ever have imagined. And it's lined with these shelves

from floor to ceiling. And it's a really high ceiling. I mean, this room could be as big as a football stadium. And it's lined with shelves going way up like 20 feet high. And these shelves are filled with all kinds of things. It could be books. It could be records. It could be CDs. It could be stuff, just could be toys, it could be clothes, just all kinds of things, even pictures, scenes from your life, animals, pets, whatever. It's just lined with all kinds of things. And again, this is imagination. So even if it's filled with animals, we're not being cruel to animals here. I love animals. So, and it could be people on these shelves, relatives, friends, people from your life, people you've met, not met. So all of a sudden,

you're seeing all these things, some of which you have seen before because your flashlight has shone on those things. But most things you've never seen before because your flashlight never got to them. And all of a sudden, you're realizing that, wow, there's all these things that exist right now. I'm seeing them all at once, which means they all exist simultaneously. And some things are amazing. Some are beautiful, some are creative, artistic. But some are like meh, and some I don't really like them. They're scary things. And then the lights go off and you're back to one flashlight. And you're back to one flashlight. And again, all you can see is what you're focused on with that one flashlight. And so you're back to just seeing one thing at a time. But now

you're aware that the one thing you're focused on is among millions of other things. And if you don't like what you're focused on, you know you can shift your focus until you find something that maybe is more pleasing, something that you like or something that feels good to you or something that serves you better in some way. So the flashlight is an analogy of your awareness. And when we're in this physical life expressing from a physical body and we look at things with our physical eyes and use our five senses that we're limited to. Our awareness is actually limited. It's limited to our environment, what we see on TV. And so this is our flashlight. It's like when you're hearing scary news every day, your flashlight is focused on that fear. And that is your awareness, this physical body is that

flashlight only focusing on one thing. But when you are able to perceive above and over just the five sensory three-dimensional world, in other words, when you don't have your physical body, you are a multi-sensory being existing in a multi-dimensional existence. And you become aware that so many things exist simultaneously. And just to make it more tangible, just to bring it down, but you can let your mind take this anywhere. But is that, say, in this planet, healing exists as well as sickness. Birth exists as well as death. But there are more people who are being healed from illnesses than there are people who die from illnesses. But our flashlight is constantly focused on the sickness and the death, and this is what we fear. We start to fear that. In other words, if you're living a life that is

fear-based, it means your flashlight is focused on the fear-based messages. Whereas the love-based messages, the energy expanding messages, the beautiful things exist simultaneously. But your flashlight is just not focusing on those things right now. You know, before we hit record, we were talking about a friend of yours and an acquaintance of mine who's been on this podcast, Dr. Bruce Grayson. Yes. And he is a medical doctor and a researcher based out of the University of Virginia who studies these near-death experiences and has gone through the literature, interviewed people like yourself who've gone through these things. And his whole message is, we may not be able to understand it. But these individuals have gone through something. You know, everybody's

story is a little bit different, but there's some common themes that are there. But more importantly, for those that, who of us who are here, who haven't gone through that, there are lessons to learn from it. You had a profound experience, but you're not here to tell everybody that they need to go have a near-death experience and get stuck in the in-between in a coma for a while, right? God forbid, we don't want that to be happening to people. Absolutely not. But you do have some important messages, just like Bruce had for our community on the podcast. What are some of those messages. So the first message I would want people to know is that your soul came here with an intention, with a reason, allow it to express itself. Your soul is magnanimous, magnificent,

powerful, and don't diminish your soul. Don't dim your light. Be who you are. Whenever we think that we have to curtail ourselves. We have to silence our voice. We're diminishing who we came here to be. And this is particularly true for people who have been brought up to diminish who they are, who have ended up being highly sensitive, highly empathic, shy people who are afraid to share their voice with the world. You need to know that your soul came here to shine. So I would want people to know that. I want people to know that it's really important to love and value yourself. It doesn't matter of anyone else does or no one else does.

It's so important. One of the things that I promised myself when I was on the other side is that I would never forsake myself, even if other people did. I would always, even if I failed, I would be the one to pick myself up. up, dust myself down and keep going. Don't feel afraid of failure. Don't and stop being afraid of shame. We are all so fearful of shame because all of us have been shamed for who we are. For whatever reason, there's body shaming and ethnic shaming and all kinds of shaming that goes on. don't be don't fall into being a victim of shame and love yourself like your life depends on it

because it does it does i learned the hard way i share my message i make it my mission to share my message so that people don't have to go through what i went through and it saddens me to see that even today here in the 21st century, we're in year 2024, and I still see young people who beat themselves up, who hate themselves, who think that their lives don't matter. It saddens me to still see that, to see people with such low self-esteem. And when you have low self-esteem, you allow yourself to be trodden on by other people. You look to other people for approval. So you allow them to step on you and even to use you and abuse you.

And you allow yourself to be a victim. Stop doing that to yourself. You know, you were doing that to yourself right up until that point when you were in that place, whether we want to call it the beyond, the in between, whatever might be. And in fact, you felt so free and expansive in that moment that part of your experience was, I don't know if I want to go back. Yeah. Talk to us about that.

So this world is persistent. It's not always easy. So people think that because I have this experience, now my life is easy. It's peachy. So yes, I absolutely love my life right now. I wouldn't change anything. But we live in an era, for example, that we have social media. And so that fear of disapproval is actually magnified.

We were not socialized to win approval from hundreds, thousands, millions of people. We were socialized maybe to win approval just from our parents when you're growing up. but we're now in a fishbow where the whole world gets to see you. So in many ways, there are things about this world that have got harder. But when I was on the other side, I got the distinct feeling that I had a purpose, I had a mission, and that I needed to go back to fulfill the mission. This is what I was told. I was also told that my husband, Danny, and my purpose was linked,

and he wouldn't be able to complete his purpose if I didn't come back. And I knew that the one thing I had to do was to live my life fearlessly. That's what my dad said to me. He said, now that you know the truth of who you really are, go back and live your life fearlessly. Now, I wanted to know more about what I was supposed to do. And I wasn't told how to unravel the purpose. I was just told, you won't have to chase it, you won't have to pursue it, just love yourself

and live your life fearlessly, and it will unfold. And I saw little images, glimpses of my future. I saw myself on a stage talking to people, but I didn't know how I was going to get there or what I had to do. Now, again, remember my background, I was not somebody who's ever been on stage, or written a book or thought of myself as a public person. I was shy, introverted. So for me to see that, it was like really far-fetched. And then I made the decision to come back, and that's when my dad said, go and live your life fearlessly.

And I came out of the coma. My eyes started to open. I'd been in the coma for 36 hours. and I started to tell people all around me that dad is here, dad is here. It's not my time to die. I'm going to be fine. And so my family were elated. My brother was there.

He arrived in the plane. And my mom was there and my husband, Danny, was there. And they were elated that I was coming out of the coma. And they called the doctor. and the doctor told them, don't raise your hopes. She's still in critical condition just because she's opened her eyes. Then I started talking about all the things I heard and I saw. And that's when they were really surprised because I said, oh, didn't that doctor tell you that I'm not even going to make it through the night? And that's when Danny said, he didn't even say that here in the room.

He said that down the hallway by the nurse's station. You couldn't have heard him. And I just started to say, oh, and that's the nurse that tried to put the tube into my vein and said, oh, I can't find her veins. They're all retracted. And so they were shocked because I was able to say all that. That's when they knew something had happened. And then in four or five days, my tumors visibly were shrinking. They could actually see that they were softening and shrinking. And in three weeks, they could find no trace of cancer in my body. but I was now working on just getting stronger, getting my muscles moving, and in five weeks, I was released from the hospital to go home and live my life cancer free. And that was March 9th, 2006.

Wow. You know, you had a spontaneous healing event after this in-between near-death experience. and your story is such a beautiful story, which is why I wanted to have you here, and of course tell it for our audience. And there's layers to it. And if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to just share just a quick little antidote

for my life of what came to me as one of the lessons that I took away from your near-death experience. I'd love to hear it. I would love to hear. I mentioned to you my aunt. Her name was Hema, and my mom's younger sister.

And very similar to you, grew up in an Indian environment and, you know, so much, I have so much admiration for her mom, my grandmother, and I have my heart goes out to my grandfather, her dad, but he was a very fear-based person, and he ruled with a lot of fear. And even in a young age, I can remember thinking, I don't know if I'm, I feel related to this guy because I'm so different because I had my contrast of my dad who was such a different individual, you know, a loving, caring, just incredible stand-up man, respected in the community, did well in his career, but just a lot of love. And she was raised with a different

type of dad and a lot of berating and a lot of negativity growing up. And my grandmother really was the one that kept the house together. And, you know, she even sacrificed. She was so good at school. she sacrificed her own further education to put her younger brother, my uncle, through school. And again, going back to this theme of constantly putting everybody else before you, which so many people in similar cultures go through. And even people who grow up here in America and grow up with more traditional families, they go through that. I'm going to fast forward a little bit here.

But at this crucial intersection where you ended up not getting married and ran away from arranged marriage, she ended up getting an arranged marriage. And, you know, they both tried the best of it. And I would say that my uncle is an individual who was dealing with the best that he knew how, but also grew up in a very similar thing and kind of passed down that negativity that was there. Even though he did her best, it was a very stressful situation for her. And when I was in college, she had her first brain tumor that was found after years of a stressful life, environment. You know, cancer is so complex. There's so many things that play into a role.

And then she beat that. And then again, a few years later on, another cancer diagnosis that came. And we tried at the knowledge that I had and the individual doctors that I knew, I tried to put a team together for her. And we did. And she, after many years of going through that journey, you know, quote unquote, beat the cancer that she was dealing with at the time. And then fast forward to about seven years ago, you know, sometimes people who have been diagnosed with cancer before, it can come back.

And especially if those stressful situations and other things and environmental, and again, it's so complicated, the milieu of things. And cancer came back. and we tried everything. And I was so proud of her because of the first time in her life, she was making so many of those changes that she felt she couldn't make before because it was about the kids. Yeah.

She had to put everybody else first and she wanted to make sure that her kids were in a situation, that they could at least move on and live their life. And so she made sacrifices. I don't want to go into all the details, but you can imagine. And she was in extreme pain.

she was in the hospital all throughout, you know, still reading her spiritual text, trying to practice all these things. She's a huge fan of Wayne Dyer who's going to be coming back into this story here in a little bit. Tony Robbins and many of these individuals, she really tried and put her heart in and was surrounded by so much love and all the things that was there. And ultimately, through a combination of things, I won't go into all the detail of her story, she ended up in a situation where she was put in hospice care. And I got the call that we knew that it was towards the end of the stage that was there. She was being moved into hospice care to try to be made comfortable because she was going through an extreme amount of pain. And I flew out here from

Los Angeles. And I can remember just thinking, I just hope that I spend can get a little bit of time with her before she passes on. And as I pulled up to the hospice care facility in New Jersey, And I got a call from my sister that my aunt was not conscious. She's still breathing. I remember thinking and feeling and hoping that I just have to hope from hearing and knowing other stories like your own. I wasn't fully present with your story at the time, but I'd heard other ones. I had to believe that at least that she could hear me, that she could feel me. And I sat there right next to her bedside and I held her hand just as her sons did and many of our family.

members and my mom and my sister. And we told her stories. We shared love for her. We cried. We weeped. And there was a part of us that felt and hoped that maybe, just maybe, she could hear a little part of this love and admiration that we have and the acknowledgement of how much she had to sacrifice for everybody around her. And that she was entering into a place where she no longer, as you can see, I'm getting a little worked out. Yeah. It's beautiful. That she would no longer have to do this anymore. Yeah.

That's what it is. And in hearing your story, it made me feel that that was real. Yeah. That she heard us. She did. Even though she didn't have this, quote unquote, spontaneous healing event. And she tried her hardest and was doing all the health things and all the different stuff that was there. You know, she didn't, quote, unquote, make it.

But as you said, there's still. that we can never know the full journey. Yes. That somebody's individual journey is on. But at least in that moment of freedom that she was experiencing and her having and letting us in, you know, the consciousness being aware

that there was some solace, some joy that was being brought to her life at that moment that said, everything is good. We got your back. Your sons are going to be taken care of. Please, you can be free and you can move on. Wow. that I'm so glad you shared that. That is so beautiful, like so beautiful. I relate to so many aspects of that. So,

I mean, I feel like I know her because she is me in another version. Yeah. One that chose to stay there. And I want to say that my sense, well, first of all, I want to say she definitely heard all of you because I know when I was in the coma, I could hear, see, feel more deeply than if I was conscious. Yeah. She knew. She 100% knew how you all felt. And you all made her feel complete. She felt completed.

And now she could soar and do bigger and better things that she couldn't do here. Yeah. I think the other reason that's also important for me to share is that, you know, your story, and I want to hear all the stories, right? Your story was a spontaneous healing moment. But if people take away from it, that's simply by going through the exact steps you went through, that everybody's going to have that, everybody has their own individual journey. Yes.

That's there. And nothing is wrong with that. You're the first person to say that. And we can't step into that fully if we don't at least acknowledge that there is something bigger than us, the divine. Yes. Maybe we have different words for it that maybe we can't explain with the science and the tools and the things we have, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And that should give some sense of comfort. You know, before he passed away, we had Dr. Roland Griffiths on this podcast. I'm not sure if you're familiar with this work, but he was at Johns Hopkins, and he was the researcher that's been credited for bringing back and allowing the research to be done on psilocybin, medicinal mushrooms. Oh, right. And many people who go on these medicinal mushrooms, in fact, one of the big studies that they did at Johns Hopkins

was on terminal cancer patients. They took people that were in a terminal state based on their diagnosis and their stage and who had a lot of fear of dying, as many of us would if we were given that diagnosis. And they put them through a medically-assified, solicitin dosage, a heavier dosage that was there and they had them supported. And one of the things that many of these people that went through this study said,

their themes were so similar to the themes that you shared here, that there was a knowingness that life was so much bigger. Yes. That death is not this thing to be afraid of. Yeah. And in fact, when they came off of that journey, that trip, so to speak, that feeling stayed with them many, many years beyond that. And they still considered it to be one of the most profound experiences of their life.

So whether it's through psilocybin and MDMA, which there's a lot more research on, whether it's through a near-death experience, or whether it's through the bigger message that you have to share with us here, which is you don't have to die to check in with yourself. However people get there, we are just painting the, picture and really you by sharing your story or painting the picture that that bigger thing is out there and let's tap into it and you don't have to wait for something crazy bad to happen to touch base with that yes a hundred percent and and that's exactly the crux of my message is

that don't wait until you get to that stage and i love also how you try you try truly can see, and I want to make this a point that people, it doesn't mean that if somebody follows everything I'm saying that they're going to heal and they're not going to die. But it does mean that they will reach a place of realizing that maybe the next stage of my journey is on the other side. And that's what I want to, I would like people to also know and understand. And that's why I mentioned earlier about that cancer is not a battle to be fought because what it actually is, it's your body communicating with you.

It's trying to tell you something. And as with your aunt, I'm still moved by that story. So because I can't, it still affects me when people tell me stories where I really identify with the person going through what they're going through. You guys had so many parallels in your life. Yeah. And so I totally understand. And I really think that she is currently on the other side guiding and helping her entire

family, you included. And she's probably doing so much more there than she could ever have done here. Yeah. We absolutely feel that way. And as I mentioned, you know, hearing your story and listening to all the details of what you went through. You can feel something, but it can feel so much more real after hearing something. Or you can feel something and it felt real there and you're reminded of it. You know, her anniversary of her, well, her birthday was just passed recently and we were all thinking about her. And as I was

preparing for this interview and your team graciously said and you were excited to do the interview. And so thank you so much. Listening to and revisiting your story was that perfect reminder as it was close to her birthday just passing of yes this was the the truth that was there and you know what for all the skeptics that are out there even if you say you can't possibly know that's what she went through here's a thing because i'm getting comfort from it it's more what does it mean for me yes i can't prove that it was real we don't know if she could hear us like you were hearing things but that doesn't matter it's what am i taking away from this what is the story what is the meaning that i'm giving to the situation? And is that meaning going to give me either peace, comfort, or more resolve to show up

and support other people in my life? So even if it's not true, guess what? I don't care. That's the meaning that I've taken away from it. Exactly. And that makes so much sense. Because again, when something makes you feel good and it brings you comfort, you actually feel healthier. It actually makes you healthier. You know, when people are in love, they're usually healthier, happier. And so that's the idea is to bring the things that bring you comfort into your life, because it contributes in so many ways. I want to come back to your story. And thank you so much for allowing me to share a little bit about my aunt's story. I loved it. And I know she's smiling, looking upon us in this interview. That's what I was feeling. I want to come back to your

story, which is you shared an important point, you had this spontaneous healing. And if somebody would ask you, where did it come from? Is it that place that because you got a glimpse of the in-between, the other side, how freeing it was, that there was some sort of messages now being sent to your body? What was going on? So this is the way I interpret it. And again, this is just the way that I. I'm able to process it.

But I got a glimpse of who my soul is, who I am without my physical body. And it felt like an awakening into, oh, this is who I really am. I just thought I was that, that little insignificant person who's lying there on that hospital bed, who's been bullied and so on. I thought that was me, but no, that's not me. That's just what this big, powerful soul spirit is using as a vehicle to express itself through for this period of time and space. That's all.

And so realizing who I was, and it's not as if I think I'm better than anyone else. think everybody is, everybody's soul. If you get to know your soul, we are all powerful with a purpose, with a mission. We came here with an intention. I honestly believe that every single one of us came here with the intention of making the world a better place in whatever way, even if it's in the small way of being the best possible parent and bringing up great kids or in being a teacher at a school or whatever it is, every single one of us came here with the intention of making the world a better place. But we lose our way because of our environment, because we're sensitive and we listen to other people more than to ourselves. So we lose our way. And so when I was

on that side, it became so clear to me. And I was thinking, why? And I was thinking, why? Why didn't I know this before? Why did I have to die to learn this? And I realized we come in. I realized I had come into the world knowing this, but I had forgotten because of all the conditioning and the cultural conditioning. And it was this realization of who my soul is that seemed to determine the well-being.

of my physical body. In other words, the more I repressed my soul, the more I diminished my soul, the more I diminished who I am and repressed it and felt it was unworthy and should not be heard, the more my physical body was also trying to fight back and communicate with me by giving me physical symptoms.

It was three weeks that there was no detectable levels of cancer, I believe. And then it was about five weeks they let you go and officially sort of diagnosed you at the hospital that you were at in Hong Kong as being cancer-free. Yes. There was no evidence of disease was what it said. What were your doctors saying about this situation? They couldn't explain it.

And some of them tried to explain it. it away. So one thing they all agreed on is that I'm lucky to be alive. They all agreed on that they thought I was going to die that night. But in terms of explanation as to how I healed, I don't think even they can agree on what it is. And one doctor, so when I told my oncologist, I actually plucked up the courage to tell them. There were two oncologists. One was a lady. One was a man.

And this is what's surprising. I told them separately. I told the male oncologist about my near-death experience. And he believed me 100%. And he actually said, you're not the first person that's told me of having an experience like that. I have had other patients. Not that he was saying others have healed from cancer or anything,

but he has dealt with other patients who said, oh my gosh, I, you know, I visited something that's out of this world. So he said, yes, I completely believe you. That's incredible. I told the other oncologist, the female one, and she said, oh, that was your imagination. It was the drugs messing with your mind. So it was interesting that even two people taking care of my case, because my file was passed from one to another. So I told this to both of them. My GP, general practitioner doctor, who had been looking after me all the way, like he'd been looking after me for years and was there in the hospital visiting me as soon as I came out of the coma. And when I told him later, he had tears in his eyes and he said, I'm just so relieved that you came through it and you're alive. But he completely believed me. And he said, there was no.

No way anybody thought you were going to make this. They were all so sure that I was gone. Wow. Yeah. Take us from there. You know, you've shared a very important quote. You've said being dead was easy. Living life is challenging.

Just because you had this near death and spontaneous healing incident. Yes. experience, which people in other cultures and religions, even though it's extremely, extremely rare, it's happened. People have seen it, documented, we may not be able to explain it. It's something that you went through. Now you have to make sense of, what do I do? How do I want to show up?

How do I want to live? How did you navigate? So I had to relearn how to live life. because I knew if I went back to being the person I was before, because that's the only way I knew how to be. I was socialized that way, being the people-pleaser, seeking everybody's approval, being shamed easily, being oversensitive. And I was still a very sensitive person.

I had to relearn how to navigate because the one thing that was driving me was that I knew that the person I was before was the person who got cancer and I didn't want to go through that again. So I knew that I had to. And so on the one hand, I had this humongous feeling of just knowing that I am loved. and all these beings, I actually knew that I was guided. And I felt so much peace and love from my dad that I never felt before. And I knew I was guided. So there was all of this that was so comforting.

So that part is great. I felt amazing. And I was like getting back into being in my body. I hadn't been felt so good in my body for years because I was dealing with the illness. So all of that part was great. But here's where the difficulty comes in. It's in the socializing because everybody in your community knows you as the people pleaser. They know you as the one person that they can count on to do anything and everything. And what had changed inside me was that I valued myself

in a very different way. And I no longer wanted to do the things that would deplete my energy. I knew that now I knew that I'm supposed to do things that are good for me, that elevate me. And I have to listen to my inner voice. So starting to put my inner voice first was very new for me. And I literally had to move away from my, from the neighborhood I lived in because I had to re-identify who I was. I had to re-acquaint myself with the real me, the person who I was born to be,

not the person who had been shaped by my culture, my surroundings, my environment. So we did move. We moved like about an hour's drive away from where we lived. In a brand new community, a new neighborhood, nobody knew me and I was able to reinvent myself. And here's the thing. Most people seem to default into a belief system that if I just allow myself to be who I am,

there would be Armageddon. You know, most people seem to think there has to be rules and parameters. But even that belief that you think, allowing me to be completely who I am with no holds barred. We're scared of doing that. We think, oh my God, I might hurt people and all. But when you believe that, what you're saying is that who I really am at my core is a bad person who will hurt people and do all the wrong things. When in actuality, when you allow yourself to be who you truly are, you will surprise yourself. You will find out that

heart, especially if you're someone who is naturally highly sensitive and empathic, you will be unleashing that empathy like a hundredfold and it will be natural and innate. And I realized that, and I'm speaking for people who can relate to my story, who know, like your aunt, who knows that they got sick because they gave and gave of themselves, those are the people that really need to unleash who their soul came here to be and stop trying to constantly please the outer voices. That's why. And my husband, bless him, he is so supportive, Danny. He was the one that kept encouraging me and saying, stop going back to being that person

you used to be. No, what do you want? Be you. So having the support is really important. And so he made it easier for me. But if I can share with you a little, a recent event in my life that will really put into perspective what I meant about living life is hard. Please. Being on the other side, being dead is easy.

Living life is hard. So we did move away and I was just learning who I really am. And it really is a learning process. and I had to deal with people, old people from my previous community, calling on me to do things that I didn't feel like doing and I would kindly and politely decline. And I had to deal with people saying, you're different, you've changed and you need to go back to doing things the way you used to do. You need to get back to work. How long are you going to be a recluse like this for? and I would be like as long as I need to.

And I wasn't judging myself, but I was being judged. And so when I, and then people saying, you're being unrealistic. It's delusional. You have to get back into the real world. And I had to deal with people saying things like that. And I had to be okay with that. I never expected Wayne Dyer to discover my story on the internet. And I never expected.

to be catapulted into the stratosphere the way he did. So he discovered my story, invited me, and I'm living in Hong Kong. He invited me to L.A. to speak at a event he was doing in Pasadena. And there I was on stage in front of 3,000 people with live stream. And that was when I got this moment of like, deja vu. Oh my God, this is what I saw when I was on the other side. I'm on stage. I'm speaking.

And he pulled me up on stage to share my story. And that's when I realized this is my purpose, because when I saw the reaction of the audience. And so then he made sure my book, my first book hit the New York Times bestseller list. Now, again, remember, I was not socialized to be this public person. And going into this world of suddenly you have social media, you have thousands of people judging you, commenting on you.

That was not easy for me. I wasn't used to it. And about three or four years ago, I completely burned out because I couldn't handle it. I was taking to heart too many, too many of the public messages that were coming my way. And bear in mind, probably 90, 95, maybe even 98% of the messages are really, really positive. Probably 99.999% were positive.

And that's how the human mind works. We see the one or two out of the thousands that are negative. And it sticks. And it sticks. And it triggered that old pattern. It triggered something. And this is after doing this for quite a few years. You know, I'm into living.

This is post-N-D-E, 14, 15 years. And then somehow it's just carrying that weight, and I started questioning myself again. And certain comments that I still remember in my mind that still trigger me. And they, and, you know, I was traveling a lot. I was invited to speak all over the world. I was traveling so much, and I was flying and living in hotels.

I gained a little bit of weight. And it's, you know, when you're on social media, the one thing that really triggered me was the fat shaming. I've never talked about this. This is the first time I'm speaking about this to you. And I still remember a comment that almost made me weep. It was some guy had posted on Facebook, he posted something that said, somebody told him me to follow you or to listen to you because they said you were very Buddha-like, but the only Buddha-like thing I find about you is your figure.

And somehow that was like an arrow through my heart. And then subsequently there was another comment that I saw on social media. So remember, people at this point are writing into me and they're writing all the time. And I have a team of people who work with me and they read my emails and they respond on my behalf and they don't show me all the emails. So somebody wrote on my Instagram something along the lines of Anita Morjani, I hate you. I'm unfollowing you. You killed my best friend. I wrote and wrote and wrote to you so many times because my best friend is sick. I wanted you to talk to her. But you never responded. and now she's dead.

I'm going to tell everyone not to follow you. Wow. And that really hurt as well. And that's when I thought, am I doing more harm than good? Am I giving people the wrong impression? And slowly it was just the occasional comment like that would just really hurt. And I needed to take a break. And I actually took a break from public life.

I stopped being on social media. media. I stopped, I stopped doing videos. I stopped. I just completely stopped for about eight months and had to regroup. And every day, just go back and revisit that near-death experience. To be reminded of the truth that you had experienced. Yes. And I changed my lifestyle. I just changed so many things about. about me. And I realized that over the years when you're bombarded with social media again, and this is why I say, we did not grow up to be socialized to people please at that level. Yeah. And yet there was some part of you between your dad's message,

between the feeling that you had when you're in the in-between that told you, you, you had a greater purpose. Yes. They didn't say it was going to be easy. Yes, they didn't say it was going to be. But that you had a greater purpose. And this is you in it. Yes.

And that greater purpose also being that in this form of this 3D world that we live in, which is not the infinite world, you know, there's boundaries. Yes. There's the walls. There's containers. There's physicality. There's your body. There's my body.

There's your husband, Danny, who's here who I met. we're there's different form we're not in the formless and in form you know there's there's rules and things that might have to happen you have a house I have a house there's a door in front of your house is door in my you know there's things there's boundaries and there's components and there's also the messiness of the unconscious that other people were raised in I my heart goes out to that guy who try to be funny comparing you to the Buddha and it's It's like, tell me a comment that shows me you are so stuck in your unconscious that you are going to waste even a moment of your time to leave this type of message for somebody else, and that's

the comment. And so there's the funny side of it of like, wow, you must be living a great life sarcastically for those that are not watching me on video. And then there's the deeper side of it. If I look at his comment through the lens of the message that you have in the near-death experience, which is that guy's hurting. Yes. That guy is going through something.

We don't know his story, but he's going through that. And in fact, his comment, when I look at it, is a reflection of how much more your message is needed in the world, even with it impacting you because in this world right now, you're a human being. you have feelings. You, I want to be liked by you and I want to know that I did a good job and I want to know that you feel welcome here in the studio and those aren't bad things. We don't want to be controlled by them. Yeah.

That's when we become the chronic people pleaser. Yes. But they're not bad things that are there and they're human things and they make us a better human being when we care about that stuff. Yeah, they do. They make. And that's also what makes us more empathic because we care about what. other people think. Yeah. Yeah. You put it very well. You know, I want to take a moment to acknowledge

Wayne Dyer. I used to watch him growing up on PBS and all these different places. And he's been such a big part of my life and so many others. And when I heard that he platformed you and gave you this opportunity, and I don't know exactly how many years ago this was. How long ago was this? That he reached out to you? He reached out to me in 2011, early 2011. And then he passed away, what year? 2015. 2015. So also for him to reach out and give you this platform and this stage and to be such an advocate

of human beings and spiritual stories that impact people's lives and remind people of the divine, which was his entire life message, him doing that right up until the end, which is what he did, even more beautiful. So just want to take a moment to acknowledge him. And just, you know, I feel like a lot of our audience, whether it was. your near-death experience, whether it was lessons learned from Wayne Dyer, whether it was putting it into practice in this human world, which is, as you mentioned, sometimes tougher than the in-between or the world beyond, our audience is wondering, you know, are there any tips

that you have for them on how they could die before they die so that they could actually step into some of the same feelings and experiences and take away the message and the purpose that you experience from your near-death experience, knowing that most of them will not go through a near-death experience, and we don't want them to. So what are your tips on how to die before you die to truly become alive? I love that question. So first of all, when I actually crossed over, when I left my body, what I realized was that not only am I leaving my physical body or with leaving my physical body, I'm also leaving behind my gender, my culture, my race, my religion, and also all the beliefs that I've accumulated over a lifetime and the baggage and the trauma,

all of that is part and parcel of the physical. It's not part of the non-physical. We don't take that with us. So this is one of the first realizations I had was, wow, all of that stuff that I thought was me, that shaped me, doesn't come with me. It's all there. It's all part of that body that's lying there on that hospital bed. But I still exist. So who am I?

And that's an exercise I would encourage people to do. If you actually think about that you are not this gender, you are not this race, you are not this religion, you are not this culture. This job. This job. You're not this title. You're not a mom or a dad or these other things. That's not who you ultimately are. That's not who you ultimately are.

And if you even think that, imagine that your traumas and your upbringing is what shaped you. you, but what if you didn't have those traumas or those up, that upbringing? Who would you be at your core? And sometimes it really takes deep introspection, like spending time alone, sitting in nature, or listening to meditative music or something, but really go inward and say, if I dropped all of this, if I was now out in the woods or just gave up everything, who would I be? Another way of doing it, again, that people might find easier or simpler, is that if I could be doing anything I want with the rest of my life and I have no baggage, nothing's holding me back, not money, not family, not obligations, like imagine if I didn't have any of the obligations

I currently have, nothing. And I could do anything I want, what would it be? And that really tells you who you are. What is it that your soul is longing to do and be? When you asked yourself that question, what were some of the answers that you had? When you really fundamentally got down to, who am I if I'm not these things? So I felt, well, first of all, I felt like I have more autonomy over my life than when I think of all the other things, you know, and you think I'm, I'm, I'm, ethnically Indian, I'm a woman, I'm this, I'm that, it makes me feel really boxed in. But the minute I let go of everything, it's like, oh, this opens up the world to me. And with me, what excites me when I think, who am I?

And this feels really weird saying this, but I really feel that I am somebody who wants to make a huge positive impact in the world. that's who I am at my core. And I would not have said this before the NDE. I would not have said this 20 years ago. I would have thought I was the smallest, most insignificant, insignificant person on the planet. But today, who I am, I feel I'm somebody with a fire inside wanting to make a difference.

And if I can share this with you, is that when I was in that near-dead state, And, you know, I'd spent a lifetime of being the person that was, that was bullied, the downtrodden, and so on. And then now here I was in death, realizing that all of those things had brought me to this point. And I made a vow that I would never let myself be treated that way again, never again. And even when the doctors said, this is it. like she's not coming back. And I was, even then, I was like, nope, never again. I'm going to prove them wrong. And so there's this feeling of, I'm going to prove everybody wrong. I'm not that downtrodden person. I'm not that person who died or who was going to die. I'm going to prove them all

wrong. And when I say that, I don't even mean it in a negative way of revenge, but more like, I want to show everybody on the planet who is downtrodden, bullied, or feeling unworthy. I want to show them all that they're not. They have this fire inside and they just have to release it. That's who I am at my core, my soul. You know, the topic of death is something that's so scary for so many people that even discussing it or hearing people discuss it brings up so many different feelings. For that person who's listening today, who's made it this far in this conversation,

so they're with us. So hats off to you for that. But still has some fear about at least talking about or exploring the topic further. We're all going to die at some point in time. We're all thinking about our mortality, at least a little bit here and there, some maybe more than others. what would you say for that individual who feels like, I don't want to put attention on it because maybe I'll bring it closer or maybe they're superstitious about it or they're just scared to even touch it.

But that person, what do you want to tell them about the topic of thinking about our death and at least imagining, you know, what it could mean? So I would say if you're superstitious about it now or if you're afraid of it now, I would say give it time. But when you start to live a life that you're passionate about, you actually start to lose the fear of death. But also one feeds the other. When you lose your fear of death, you lose your fear of life. But if you are fearing death right now, it means you are also fearing your life. Wow.

So the truth. Can you say that again? Yes. If you're fearing death right now, it means you're fearing your life. And when you lose your fear of death, you lose your fear of life. So shift your focus. So like that flashlight, if you're fearing death right now, it means your flashlight is focused on death.

So let's shift the focus to life and start getting excited about what you want to do with the rest of your life. and when you start to think about, you can pretend I have a clean slate in front of me. I can do what I want. And when you start to think that way and start to put it into motion and start to get excited about your life, that's when you start to lose your fear of death. I think it was the teacher Ram Dass who said this quote. It was an analogy that he was using when he was talking about.

you know, what death really is. And he was saying that, you know, death is like taking off a tight shoe, right? This tight shoe, this grip that we've been wearing that we've needed. You know, this body, this shell, this container, I'm this job, I'm this job, I'm this position, this is where I live, this is how I get to work, these are all obligations that I have.

These are all things we need to do just like we might need to wear a shoe. It's rocky outside. We don't want to step on glass, etc. And then when it comes time to that, it's like taking off a tight shoe. I always remember that. I like that. he had shared. And obviously that quote was in the context of, I'm sure, a larger explanation.

But I want to ask you, now having had this near-death experience, just like I think about Bruce Grayson interviewing all these people who have had these near-death experiences, what do you believe about the life beyond? What do you feel? I don't even know if belief is the right word. What do you feel exists for us after life from your perspective? Okay. So, yes. Again, just from my. perspective, I feel that growth and evolution doesn't stop at death. I think that we as souls, we continue to evolve even beyond, beyond this physical life and we continue to grow, evolve. I do believe in multiple lives, but the thing is when I was in that state, time didn't feel

linear. And so multiple lives suggest sequential that we have past lives, we have future lives. I have to admit it didn't quite feel that way. What it felt like is that it's possible for the soul to exist in multiple lives simultaneously. It was like I was in this state where I was able to access information from other lives that would actually help me right now in my evolution and in living out this particular life. You know, so much of your feelings around that. And I say feelings because it's like I can truly see that you feel it internally. It's less of like, I believe, like you're hoping to believe or you think that's that,

but you feel it. I feel it in my body. it in your bones, which is very similar to a lot of individuals, again, who have had near-death experiences, just like you had, or people that have had very profound journeys on some sort of plant medicine and at least the ones that we know that have been studied through the, you know, traditional, like a lot of the studies that have happened at Johns Hopkins and a lot of the surveys that they've done as a part of that. How does that feeling that you have?

How does that influence how you live today? So that feeling is what it tells me is that I have lived multiple lives. And I know this is going to sound weird, but I can. So my soul is living out multiple lives, which traditionally we would say was reincarnation. And we think of it. The Hindu tradition. The Hindu traditional, in the Hindu tradition, it's sequential and each life leads to another. The way I feel it and felt it when I was there is that the soul lives multiple lives to complete

its own evolution. It's not a sequence of, oh, I did this in my past life and so I'm going to have to repay it back in the next life. It's not like that at all. It's like I'm going to experience this because it's good for my experience. evolution and then next time I'll experience something completely different or in another life I'll experience something different. But because it's not sequential, when I get quiet and ask for guidance, I may be getting guidance from another one of my lifetimes where I have had an experience

which could help what I am going through right now. That's how it's. feels for me. I get guidance all the time. Like even when I had the complete burnout that I took an eight-month break that I told you about, this is what was happening for me. For me, what was happening is that the voices of the public, the social media and the people, became louder for me than the voices, the internal messages and voices. And I had to take a break from the external voices so I could get back in tune to the internal voices that I had learned to listen to since my near-death experience. And I know that as long as I continue to listen to those internal voices, I'll be okay. And so those internal voices, they guide me. And so those internal voices,

they guide me and they get, and it's, and I do feel sometimes I'm accessing information from other lives that this soul, who is me, this soul is much greater and has lived way more than this physical body. So it has access to that information from the other lives. That's how I live currently. The thing that I love about that so much, and I appreciate your answer, is that for anybody who's listening and saying, well, how do we know if that's true? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. This is what you feel. And it's leading to peace, equanimity, a general sense of positivity in your life.

Yes. A sense that the universe has your back. What's that old Einstein quote? I might be quoting it incorrectly. We'll put in the show notes. But one of the most fundamental questions, a human being can ask himself, is that is the universe a place of good or bad. And when you believe that the world is a place of good, it brings out goodness inside of you. It wants you to do things that are goodness.

It wants you to invest in yourself. And that doesn't mean that bad doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that challenging things aren't there. It just means the larger lens and the framework that you have for life is that life is a force of good. Yes. And you can put that through whatever religious belief or spiritual belief that you have. And it changes how you step in this world. Yes.

Oh, I need to share something with you about. that so about people who believe or don't believe or who say, how do you know that's true? So many years ago, I mean, I was telling you when I started to live this way, I couldn't go back to the life I used to live, because it's the near-death experience changed the way I think. I now access information from in here or up there and not from the physical world so much. So I told you that people were telling me. In my community, they were saying, you have to be realistic,

you have to come back and go back to work and stop being such a recluse and so on. And they said that you, you know, you're being delusional. Now, all these years on, those very same people come to me and they say, oh my gosh, your life is amazing. I want what you have.

You're out there helping all these people. Why aren't you helping me? I hate my life. These same people, I'm saying this. And I'm tempted to say, well, I guess you have to be delusional. It's true. You have to be a little crazy, just a little crazy enough to look at life from a different perspective. Yes. Right? You have to be just a little bit weird to see that this world that we're in is not leading to health for so many people. All these obligations and the way that

we show up in the world and the pressure that's always there. it doesn't mean that we don't have tasks and duties and we all have commitments and those things that are there, but to do it with all this pressure and people pleasing and to fit ourselves into these, you know, square little holes when we're a round peg, that is so stressful. And your message that I'm hearing for people today is that there's a different way to live. There's a different way to exist in this life. Totally, completely different. And we give way too much power to the loudest voices in this physical world and social media, mainstream media.

And we allow so much of what's outside of us to dictate and determine who we should be and what we are. But the beautiful truth that you're here to remind people, just like you temporarily forgot when that comment was made or those few comments were made, it's human to forget. Yes. It's also human to forgive, forgive yourself. Yes. You're doing the best that you know how. And it's never too late to turn things around.

It's never too late. Never. Anita, this has been a fantastic conversation. I just want to acknowledge you for putting yourself out there after going through this incredible experience, especially when every person around you was trying to remind you of who you were. And you were feeling your soul,

your consciousness, your being, going in a different direction. And you continued to listen to that. Even though it was tough, and as you've mentioned, there's still tough days that are there. That's part of being human. but you continued on and that message is going to give so many people who are listening

today's conversation hope that they're good enough, they're loved, the divine is there, the universe has their back, and there's something bigger that's always been there for them that they can step into at any moment to bring their highest purpose to this world. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. This has been an amazing interview, and I just loved how you drew all those, all that. I loved your questions because I loved how you drew all that information from me. Do you have any final words that you want to share with our audience as we wrap up today?

I just want people to know that they are amazing, magnificent beings. They are far more than this physical body. You are actually multi-sensory, multidimensional. You just have never learned how to access it. You've never been conditioned to believe in it. And just always remember. remember to follow your passion, find your joy, and if all else fails, eat chocolate. I love that. Anita, you have an incredible world that you've created books and programs and

your social following. We're going to link to all those in the show notes below. And lastly, I just want to say it's been a delight to sit here with you. You know, I shared the story about my aunt and you remind me of her so much and uh i just want to say uh you know i know that she's uh putting so much positivity and i could totally see her and your mom and your dad just like they totally have you know your back and my back and yeah i just want to say thank you so much thank you and um and i would say that they probably orchestrated it so that this would happen yes i believe that Thank you. Thank you. This was such a pleasure for me. Thank you. Hi, everyone, Drew here. Two quick things. Number one, thank you so much for listening to this podcast.

If you haven't already, subscribe, just hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. And by the way, if you love this episode, it would mean the world to me. And it's the number one thing that you can do to support this podcast is share it with a friend, share with a friend who would benefit from listening. Number two, before I go, I just had to tell you about something that I've been working on that I'm super excited about. It's my weekly newsletter, and it's called Try This. Every Friday, yes, every Friday, 52 weeks a year, I send out an easy-to-digest protocol of simple steps that you or anyone you love can follow to optimize your own health.

We cover everything from nutrition to mindset to metabolic health, sleep, community, longevity, and so much more. If you want to get on this email list, which is, by the way, free and get my weekly step-by-step protocols for whole body health and optimization, click the link in the show notes that's called Try This or just go to Drew Perot.com. That's D-H-R-U-P-U-R-O-H-I-T dot com and click on the tab that says try this.