Dhru Purohit Show - The Universe Is Sending You Signs: Are You Listening? How to Fine Tune Your Intuition to Step Into Your Purpose and Dream Life with Dr. Tara Swart

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth, LMNT, and Fatty15. Have you ever had a sign or a gut feeling that you brushed off as a coincidence? What if those moments weren’t random at all, but subtle guidance pointing you in the right direction? On today’s episode, we explore how these signs show up in our lives, why we often miss them, and how understanding the science behind intuition can help us tune in and act with clarity. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, Dhru sits down with world-renowned neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart to explore the key signs of greater intelligence that often appear in our lives. She explains how our modern world can prevent us from noticing these signs and receiving guidance, and how the brain itself acts as a filter. Through practices such as visualization and intention-setting, we can activate the reticular activating system to better recognize opportunities that align with our goals. Dr. Tara also breaks down the science of intuition and “signs,” showing how gut feelings and dreams are rooted in real brain-body connections, while offering practical tools to rewire limiting beliefs. She reminds us that transformation isn’t magic, but rather biology combined with aligned action. Dr. Tara Swart is a PhD neuroscientist and Oxford University-trained medical doctor. She is Senior Advisor for Neuroscience and Leadership at MIT Sloan School of Management, best-selling author of The Source, and a Trustee of the Lady Garden Foundation. Tara is the Chief Science Officer at Dirtea, an adaptogenic mushroom company, and the Mind Ambassador at Healf.com. Tara is passionate about empowering people through the intersection of science and spirituality. In this episode, Dhru and Dr. Swart dive into:  Dr. Tara’s personal story of loss, grief, and her journey with signs and patterns (1:10) Fundamental beliefs we accept without proof and a discussion on near-death experiences (7:02) What Dr. Tara realized after her husband’s death and the greater source present in the universe (17:24) The importance of having community (20:17) Dhru’s personal story of signs after loss (21:25) How Dr. Tara navigated her grief and what led her to write her book (38:50) Why sharing your experiences with signs matters and how to identify your own (47:14) Finding a sense of purpose through signs (1:07:00) Practices to help us access and strengthen our intuition (1:18:57) The power of journaling (1:23:21) What to do when you ask for a sign and don’t get one (1:29:56) Feeling connected to signs while staying grounded in real life (1:34:35) The consequences of ignoring the signs life gives us (1:41:45) Final thoughts and takeaways (1:45:55) Also mentioned in this episode: The Signs: The New Science of How to Trust Your Instincts - Dr. Tara’s new book  For more on Dr. Swart, follow her on Facebook, X/Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, or visit her Website. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth, LMNT, and Fatty15. Right now, get 40% off your Cozy Earth sheets and sleepwear. Just head over to cozyearth.com/dhru and use code DHRUP. Lemonade Salt flavor is here to stay! Right now, LMNT is offering my listeners a free sample pack with any purchase. Head over to drinkLMNT.com/dhru today. Fatty15 is offering an additional 15% off its 90-day subscription Starter Kit. Go to fatty15.com/dhru and use code DHRU to replenish your C15 levels for long-term health. Sign up for Dhru’s Try This Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Tara, as a neuroscientist, you believe something profound and a little controversial. And that is that many of us today are missing key signs from a greater intelligence. Signs that often come in the form of patterns, numbers, animals, even, songs, phrases. And these signs could radically, if noticed, help us guide towards a better life, as well as make us feel more. alive and in tune with the world. And I think a fundamental place to start this conversation is where you start the book, the new book. And that is from a place of loss. From your last time here on the podcast, you have talked about the power, the science, the art of manifestation and how you've used manifestation from a neuroscientist perspective to achieve incredible things in your life,

including even attracting your partner at the time that we were talking about, your husband. And you pick up this book with a story of the continuation from that. Can you chat about that with us? I guess the way to put it is that I believe that I manifested my husband. I had created an action board saying joy comes out of the blue and then I met him on a plane in the sky. And, you know, we met a little bit later in life, so we really cherished each other. He had had a health condition in the past that left him quite vulnerable with an underlying immunocompromise, so I had to shield him during COVID. And unfortunately, his underlying condition

progressed to acute myeloid leukemia. Four months after diagnosis, he passed away. You know, as dreadful as that would be for anyone, it also, for me, represented an absolute shattering of everything that I believed in. I mean, I had visuals of healthy blood cells on the walls of his hospital room. I was getting him to, you know, to meditate, to like, focus on rebuilding these cells. And basically, I couldn't beat leukemia. I lost the most important person in my life who was my best friend, my whole family. And it was totally devastating. And I had to find a new way to get through. All the things I'd believed in, like love and abundance and manifestation just felt like the one time that they were really meant to work. They didn't. I can't even describe the first few weeks.

You know, you just feel like you're falling in a black hole that's never going to end. And I didn't even think about how will I get through. I just, you know, didn't really think anything. I remember the next day, someone came to visit me and said, how are you? And I just looked at them. And I literally had, my brain was just completely blank. I didn't know how to answer that question. Yeah.

I mean, I'd heard about signs. I know some people who've lost close family members who talked about signs. But I was in a place where I was just like either trying too hard and looking at like stones on the floor and seeing if they were making a shape that would mean anything, or just feeling so angry and dejected that I wasn't getting one and everything I'd believed in wasn't true anymore. And like when you die, you're just dead and you're gone and that's it. And, you know, it was a really dark time.

But from very, very early on, I was living between two houses at the time between the city and the countryside. Every time I went to the window, a Robin would appear. And my husband's name was Robin. So I noticed that. I, of course, questioned whether I was trying to make too much out of that. But I've never seen as many Robbins as I did in that first few weeks after he died. And it was both in London, you know, and perhaps where you'd expect to see more birds in the countryside.

And then that kind of heated out and, you know, it just went back to like regular amounts. And I did think about searching for signs, but signs didn't come to me. People would even send me things and say, I think this is a sign. but I would reject it because it wouldn't feel right for me. So, for example, the first one was someone drove all the way from London with food that she'd cooked for me to visit me. And as she was leaving, when she turned her car radio on, it was a Justin Bieber song.

My husband's surname was Bieber. And so she said, this must be a sign. You know, a Beaver song came on when I was leaving. And so she sent me the link and I watched the video. And it was Justin Bieber with, it was an actress playing his mother who was widowed. and at the end of the music video, she met someone new. But as you can imagine, having just lost my husband, that was just a, like, a detestable thought to me.

So I completely rejected it. Like, that's not my sign. And then out of desperation, I did consult a couple of mediums. And I kept my very skeptical, scientific head on. And I kind of, you know, excluded anything that could have been looked up on the internet or social media or whatever. and I came away from it thinking I wasn't really convinced, but I thought if it's at all possible for someone to channel messages from people who've passed away

and this was my husband and my best friend and my closest person, then I should be able to do it myself. That's what I thought. And then I think by quite a coincidence, I got some number signs, some numbers either that were significant to me or coincided with certain anniversaries. One example is his birthday was the 21st of September and I would continually see 2109 on my phone. There are plenty more and it made sense because he was in finance and he was obsessed with the Fibonacci sequence. So as these number sort of things came to me, I thought that would make sense that if there's any way he can communicate with me,

that numbers would really make sense to me. So I just started to look out for those more and eventually I started to ask for specific numbers on specific events or anniversaries. And over time it became more timely and exact like on the exact day and the exact number, not just something a little bit off. And it just made me feel that, you know,

I don't know what happens after we die, but it made me feel like it was like two people were learning a new language so they could communicate with each other. It wasn't just that once you've passed, you have all these magical powers. It felt like a two-way thing. Like we both had to learn how to communicate with each other again. You know, even for people who feel like there's something that's there,

there's their own natural skepticism that happens in their own life when they see a sign that means something that's so specific. And a big part of your book and what you talk about is that, you know, we have to fundamentally start by understanding that there's these areas of science that are well-documented. documented that something is going on. And we may not understand what's going on, but something is going on. And it's beyond our current ability to explain life, consciousness, energy, and even just basic forms of communication. Can you chat a little bit about that? You kind of break a few different ones down. Like one of them would be how much we still don't fully understand like near death experience. This episode is brought to you by cozy Earth.

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that i just want to kind of back that up with a few other scientists and scientific theories that's that you know like i said if it's just one person's opinion it doesn't mean as much as if there's more kind of to it. So Professor Donald Hoffman has suggested that the nature of the universe, let's say, how the universe works, is not space time as we have accepted, but it's actually consciousness. So everything comes from consciousness. And there are whole questions about the nature of consciousness that I can go into as well. So there are some fundamental things that we have accepted, that actually can't be proven to be true, but we've accepted them. So the fact that spacetime explains how the universe works is accepted by everyone in the modern world, but can't be

proven. David Eagleman, another amazing neuroscientist, says that this idea that the brain is like a radio and it can receive signals can't be proven, but it can't be disproven. And the way that we agree how the brain works at the moment also can't be proven. So I'm just coming from that basis that, you know, a lot of things that we take to be true and there are a lot of things that we don't believe to be true but the difference between how validly they can be proven or disproven is actually nothing. So if you start with that, that's quite an interesting place. As a scientist, you know, as a scientist, you're actually not supposed to accept everything as true. You're supposed to question everything. And even in the last 20 or 30 years, how much neuroscience has changed in my

career is pretty staggering. I mean, when I was at university, we didn't know about neuroplasticity. Sure. We thought the brain stopped growing when you stopped growing. Having said that, and we've talked about the observable universe, a really big area of interest is near-death experiences and what's called terminal lucidity. There's less research on that, but that's when somebody whose brain has been damaged, either through dementia or a stroke or a brain tumor or obsess or something like that. So either physically or chemically, irreversibly damaged as far as we understand it,

who, let's take dementia, there are many cases with dementia where they don't recognize their own children or their grandchildren, suddenly become lucid, usually in the last one to 24 hours before they die, and will go from not having recognized their children for years to suddenly saying, oh, darling, come over here and having a conversation as if they'd never had dementia. And this can bring a lot of hope to families, but it's usually a sign that the person is about to die. But what's interesting about that is that it's a situation of duress. The brain is under duress. It's dying or it's demented. And the only explanation for that currently is that the mind or the consciousness and the physical brain do not have to be working together. You can have a brain that's not working and then have someone that's completely lucid. So that's what, you know, that research shows.

and then near-death experiences are, for a start, there's more cases of them. There's one professor who's got about 10,000 cases. The professor that I spoke with has documented very carefully about 5,000 cases. He's a professor of psychiatry at the University of Virginia. And of course, the interesting thing about near-death experiences is that the person becomes alive again so they can actually tell you what happened. And if in hospital, these are cases where the people have been, in cardiac arrest, their heart has flatlined and their EEG of their brain has also flatlined.

We can't say if the person was outside of hospital whether that was the case, but what they report is remarkably similar. And there are really common themes. So 40% of people that have a near-death experience have an out-of-body experience. So they hover above their dead body and they can completely see and hear what's going on, sometimes even in other rooms than the one that they're in. people usually describe a bright light or a benevolent being depending on one's beliefs that could be God or an angel or lost loved ones or something that's indescribable in human language often there's a barrier of no return so if you cross that barrier

and this comes up as a theme in many ancient civilizations like the ancient Greeks the river sticks then you join this new place, this beautiful place with these benevolent beings and just this feeling of love and peace that can barely be described. But if you are asked to turn back, that's what a near-death experience is. So if your purpose in life is unfinished or there are people that need you and you're told that you cannot enter this beautiful place, even though most people want to, then you return to your body and to your life. And that's what's happened. in a near-death experience. And often people say that they see lost loved ones and they seem

very happy and they see them like they last remembered them. Often they say that they make amends with people who passed away that they had fallen out with before they died. And they all seem to come back with this huge amount of compassion, love for life, no longer fearing death, become much less interested in material possessions, really like savour every moment and kind of live in the moment. And what I think is super interesting and partly why I included so much of this in the book is that simply by learning about near-death experiences,

you can take on some of those benefits. So students in several different disciplines, like social work or nursing, who learned about near-death experiences, up to a year later had really strong, um, higher levels of compassion, purpose,

love for life, um, you know, real true like love for other people, um, very altruistic. So, um,

I mean, I guess I think probably, the best thing that could happen for me out of my new book would be if that kind of, you know, knock on effect rubbed off on people and people felt the, the beauty and the gratitude that I feel. feel now for just being alive and being healthy.

Yeah, you talk about in the book that seeing these Robbins, seeing these numbers, seeing these different patterns, formations of even objects that you were getting these messages from your husband, it provided you with a sense of solace, meaning, and understanding that even though this relationship was, you know, ripped away from you guys, which is the initial feeling that anybody that's had any kind of tragic loss that's going to, that has happened. that's happened feels that it's something so much bigger than just the physical form of the two of you. And the secondary part, which relates to what you were sharing, is that this book and your message around the signs, isn't that signs are only useful in a time of tragedy?

We can be using them all the time. And it's the reminder that our universe is constantly conspiring for our greater good. But the key question is, are we present enough and are we willing to tune out enough of the noise that we can actually hear it. And that takes courage. I would say the journey, I can really describe it very clearly now in retrospect. It's been almost four years, is that at first it was definitely comfort. It was, you know, these huge existential questions that we have, what happens after we die? Can we remain connected to, you know, lost loved ones? I felt definitely a level of just knowing that there was still a connection. then, as you can imagine, I had to start navigating life again and re-engaging with life.

And there are a lot of practical ramifications of becoming a widow and, you know, just in terms of how you live and financial and things like this. And so I then experienced a lot of guidance. I could ask questions and get answers to those questions that would not be decisions I would necessarily have made that I feel were coming from him. And then the section I'm in now, I would say, is just the absolute joy of dancing with the universe in this way that like my needs are met by signs that come from, you know, I think mostly from Robin, but also from somewhere I would either call the source or the universe or a cosmic force or the collective consciousness. I think, you know, people have so many different words for it and I don't think it really matters what the word is. but I fully believe there's something greater than us.

And it's so interesting to me because obviously the source and action boards and the manifestation, my angle on that was very much it comes from your brain. Like you should be in the driving seat of that. And so it's quite a 180 to say there's some force that I can describe to a certain extent, but don't know the name of necessarily, that guides me and that I interact.

with and that I use my intuition to make meaning from the signs that appear. Yeah. And as you mentioned, that can go by a lot of different names. You know, you grew up in a religious household from the Hindu tradition. Some people might be calling it God. Some people might call it source, the universe, whatever it might be. But zooming out, it's just this understanding that there's something that's there. And if we're open to it, we can hear it.

But if you're closed or you're super skeptical, you're just going to end up priming your brain for not looking for these things and shutting it down. Or writing it off as coincidence. Before anything went wrong in my life, I already had this hashtag that I used quite, not that frequently, but quite frequently called I Find Hearts. And I would literally find like heart-shaped potatoes, heart-shaped mushrooms, heart-shaped, like patterns in the pavement. And that happens like a lot more now.

But I also have specific signs that mean something to me. But I think a huge part of that is my community. And I feel honestly so sad and just I can't understand how people could have gone through what I've been through without having the amazing community around them that I have. And, you know, a large part of it, it's not necessarily like you said, reef book or a book about tragedy. It's for everyone. But I really do hope it brings comfort to people that don't have the level of support that I've had because I know that's quite rare what I've had. But how the language has changed in my friendship group about signs now actually makes me giggle.

So I will get sent messages and photos of, you know, two sets of lion statues. That's one of my friends signs or, you know, the number 47, which is another friend sign. Or signs that they see for me, you know, I get sent like pictures of hearts all the time, even on Instagram from people I don't know. And yeah, I mean, like, even my male friends, you know, the way they say like, I think it's a sign. It's kind of like, you never would have said that before. A little personal anecdote that I'd love to share.

My mom's sister, my aunt, in our tradition, Gujarati would call her my Masi. Her name is Hema, my Hema Masi. We were always like so close growing up and she was always like a little bit more like a big sister than an aunt. not just to me, but to my sisters as well too. And many, many years later, when I had a company and it was growing and she didn't like the industry she was in, she came and worked for me. And we had this great opportunity where she played a bunch of different roles in the business. And I think it was right when I was in college, it was the first time she came to me and said, hey, I got diagnosed with cancer.

And she had at the time, I believe it was a breast cancer, if I remember correctly. and this was the early stage of me sort of being in the world of wellness, trying to just navigate and see are there any other associated therapies that are there that could work. And she pursued the traditional path as well. She kind of did a little bit more of an integrative medical approach. And, you know, she was young and it was caught not super, super early, but not crazy far. And she was able to beat it. And we all felt a lot of, you know, rejoice and excitement and feeling.

And even back then, I was very much into. the idea that like the universe is conspiring for your greater good and can we find the right doctors that can work with her and be open-minded. Fast forward many years later, the cancer ended up coming back. And she had beat it for many years and then it ended up coming back and this time it came back as a very aggressive form of spinal cancer of like a tumor somewhere that was putting pressure on the spine. I don't remember the exact diagnosis. Long story short, after struggling for many years and it was a very tough journey as anybody who's had a family member that's gone through that process of cancer knows and she was trying so many different things and the pain was very

unbearable at moments she ended up being being said you know the doctor said it was time to go to hospice care and it was in the final stages and you know you feel so defeated but you want to be there for the person and you feel like a little bit of a sense of all these different people that I know in my universe and there's not sort of some new treatment or something that can get at the root of it. And it wasn't. It just had gotten so far for her. And there wasn't much that could be done at that point in time. So in hospice care in the last stage, a bunch of my family members flew in, and I flew in, and we were spending time with her. And it wasn't long before it really started going downhill and she lost consciousness, but she still was communicating through touch and through

other things that we felt like a little squeeze being there by her bedside. Ultimately, least surrounded by all her loved ones, including my mom, my dad, my sister, and her two sons who were amazing, she ended up transitioning and passing over to the other side. And, you know, you're just in such a state of grief and loss in those moments. And I remember needing to, like, take a little bit of a break to just kind of experience some of that loss and those tears on my own and just really feel that void. And then my sister came and ran out and she was crying as well too and she was giving me a hug and she said um you know you'll never believe it there's a peacock that's at the door like literally at the window of this uh hospice center this facility in new jersey

outside of cherry hill new jersey and i was like oh okay that's that's interesting she's like i talked to the front desk they said they've never seen peacocks here no and it and i was like this is crazy but also just for the like listener and watcher that's very Gujarati. That's a very Gujarati symbol. Yeah. So in the Hindu Vedic Gujarati traditions, for those that are students of the Gita, the peacock is a vehicle that Krishna uses to, you're transcending from earth into the heavens. Oh, I've got goosebumps all over. And I was saying, no way. And she was saying, yeah, I think it's still there. So I went back in and, you know, we're all being there and my cousins are there and everything. And they're all.

like everybody's crying but also tears of joy because this peacock is literally at the window. And I had to make sure that, okay, it's a hospice center. They know that you just had a loss. Are people sharing with you what you want to hear, even if they're not familiar with your traditions? If you can't bring a peacock from nowhere? Well, were there peacocks here previously? Does this person not know?

And they were there before? So I went and I asked a few of the staff members, not in like, I need to get to the bottom of this. My aunt just literally, you know, passed away. but as people, you know, they're only allowing a few people in the room at the time. I went to the front desk and I was saying, you know, is it actually true? Like you didn't see like you guys don't ever have like peacocks here? Like is that actually the case?

And they're like, no, we're not lying to you. Like we've never had peacocks. Like I've worked here for the person said eight years and we've never had a peacock that was here. And as you can imagine, you're in loss, you're in astonishment, you're there. but this sense of, you know, my family is a pretty spiritual family and we believe in a higher aspect that was there. But this was one of those things that in this moment of deep loss that were all there. And my aunt had been on a decline for, you know, it'd been two years that had brought her to that stage. So we all knew that the time was coming. We went through this

moment of like, of course, this is the reminder that there's something so much bigger. And it gave us a sense of solace. And, and, you know, I, even when I was reading your book over the last few weeks, I hadn't even thought about that in this moment, but I was thinking about it now because, I mean, it's just goes so timely to the things that you're sharing. Here's the deal. Healthy cells are the foundation of a healthy body. And most of us don't realize our cells are under constant stress from aging, inflammation, and environmental toxins. That's why I'm excited to share Faddy 15, A science-backed award-winning supplement made with pure C-15, the first essential fatty acid discovered in 90 years. C-15 helps strengthen and protect your cells, improve mitochondrial function, and defend against oxidative stress.

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that are in that book are not people that I know. So I could have got 12 stories so easily from my friends and Robin's friends. But Penguin, publisher, said, if you do that, there's bias in that because you already believe this kind of thing. So you have to get stories from people that you don't know. I mean, this is like a challenge. And so it's literally like either people that I bumped into or a friend of a friend. But so even though I have all of those stories, I have all the experiences that I've had myself, it still takes my breath away. when I hear a story like that.

I'd like to ask you if you or any of, you know, the other close people that Auntie Hemmer have felt her presence in any way since after she passed away? Absolutely. Multitude of layers to that. So my mom was feeling like not immediately, but in the months afterwards, which is common. You know, you lose somebody, you're thinking about them.

But she was getting very specific messages in her dreams. So, okay, that's one layer. Another layer is, you know, again, my family, we're pretty open-minded. And we're not out there, and this is something you talk about. We're not out there like demanding signs from everything, but we're also open-minded. I've had great experiences with mediums because I think that's cool. And I've had other experiences where, okay, that doesn't really resonate, but that's good that they shared what they said. And let me see how I process that.

Because I'm more interested, not in just what they say, I'm interested in how it makes me feel. right so somebody could say something completely out there but if it makes me think about something even if that's okay that doesn't resonate but this resonates more i'm totally okay with that but my sister had spoken to a medium where she felt like she got very clear messages from somebody who would have known anything specific and her sons have felt like they've gotten very specific messages that are there so yes the continuity of those messages and those signs has continued to show up for all of us in in different way since that time period. And I think some lessons that I learned the hard way, but I would really like people to be able to get is, let's start with you saying, in all of my network, was there

not someone that could have helped my aunt? I mean, I was, you know, not only a loving wife, and I, you know, I nursed my husband, like, at the end, but I was a doctor. I had contacts. I had contacts in the States. I had contacts in the best cancer hospitals in the States. And, you know, Obviously, like I said, I had a lot of people around me wanting to help. And there obviously was a period of time, like, if anyone's going to make it, it's going to be my husband. And, you know, I really had to accept at some point that, and there are different beliefs about this, that, you know, people have certain exit points in their life and, you know, they choose them for whatever reason. But I have a very dear friend. She's quite a lot younger than me who, sadly, had already lost her father and her sister by the time I became friends with her.

and she said to me, and I'm the same age that her sister would have been, her older sister, so we're kind of close in that way. But she said to me, I eventually accepted that that was her journey. And I remember thinking I would never be able to accept that. But because I was lucky I'd had that seed planted into my head, I think I got there quicker than I would have naturally, and I thought at one point, you know, I accept that for whatever reason, I'm not even going to say it's unfair that it happened to me.

It has to happen to someone. that that was my husband's journey. I'm still trying to make sense of it, but it definitely makes me feel like I have to do something with like the gift that I've been given of continuing life. And particularly if I think about the fact

that if he'd had a successful bone marrow transplant, he would have still been so vulnerable. It would have been like shielding someone in COVID. I would never have come to the States. I wouldn't have gone anywhere that might have put him in danger. I wouldn't have done, written this book, obviously. So, you know, I'm definitely trying to like make meaning of it in terms of

doing something that honours that person's existence and the fact that they didn't have a choice to keep their life like you wanted. So I think, because, you know, I followed some grief accounts at first and I was very fascinated by the comments more than the posts because I felt like, well, these are people in the same situation as me. And I can totally see how it's really easy to think you'll never be the same again, your life will never be the same again, you'll never get over this thing that happened. But I wanted to try to make a choice for those things to not be true. I didn't really agree that I couldn't be myself again at some point.

Obviously what's happened has happened, but deep down, I'm still me and I want to be me. And that's what my husband would have wanted as well. So I just want to challenge some of the things that I think people believe about loss or even illness and, you know, the narrative that we have in society. And so the third main thing that I wanted to say is that, you know, this is the third time I'm on your podcast. We are actually friends and hang out apart from being on the podcast. And we also like message each other and speak in between. But we've never, ever had a conversation like this before. I didn't know about your aunt. I didn't know about the peacock.

Yeah. Even the way you said she transitioned to the other side tells me a lot about what you believe, but I never knew that about you. Yeah. So, you know, I really would love it if this conversation opens up a lot of similar conversations that I think sometimes people are afraid to have because they think others will think they're crazy. Yeah, absolutely. We had another loss in our family, very untimely, tragic, like, completely out of the blue,

a dear family member. And I remember getting introduced to. to this medium who was here. And it wasn't even seeking out sort of a processing around that. I think it was my wife ended up having talked to her and said, you know what? She just seems really amazing. Just as a person, I didn't have any answers.

I'm not going to her. Like sometimes people think like, I have this deep sense of curiosity. Yeah. And I know there's so much that I don't understand. And all these little glimpses with different people that are out there that have maybe a sense of or a connection to the multitude of universes that we live in, it's just fascinating to me. No different than having like Dr. Bruce Grayson on this podcast and him talking about here's his near-death experiences. Well, you introduced me to him to have him on my podcast.

That's right. That's right. And hearing from him, for those that don't know, this is, you know, he's at University of Virginia in his early career as a medical doctor, he actually had this really profound experience and he buried it for years because he thought people would think he was crazy. And that experience was, to give you the short version, he was taking care of a patient who I think was dealing with, you know, alcohol abuse and had been in the hospital a couple times and was literally on the verge of, you know, being back in the hospital and was just about to die and ended up, you know,

basically dying. And he went to go and talk to her friend and tell her about like the latest and what they're trying and how they try to stabilize her, but it doesn't look good. And she hasn't made it anymore. And then he went back into the room. And then he went back into the room. and she had come back. I don't know if he was involved with that or the other doctors had stabilized her. And once she had kind of gotten her footing a little bit, she had told him, why did you tell my friend this

and you were doing that thing? And he was like, what are you talking about? And she was going to all these specifics of this conversation that he was literally having on a different floor in the hospital with a friend. And this person could have never known about it, right? I might have gotten some details wrong here, there, but that's a gist of it.

And he buried that for like, 15 years, never talking about that aspect. And then one day saw an ad in the paper that the University of Virginia was investigating near-death experiences. And his wife said, you remember that thing that happened to you? Maybe this is an area that you could look into a little bit more. Like, what would this look like? Like, I love hearing about this because it's a reminder of something that we all know internally, which is there's so much more out there that we just don't understand.

And I think that those are beautiful things because they connect back with us. And for me, and I know you feel the same way, and I'd like to ask you about how it showed up for you after, you know, the passing of your husband and seeing some of these signs. There's also this question that comes up, which is, okay, if our time here is limited, anytime you've had tragedy loss or even hearing about it, like you talked about those medical students, hearing about a near-death experience from somebody else, our time here is limited. and if there is a greater governing force of this universe, God, the source, whatever that might be, how do I want to use my time when I'm here? Do I want to just be living my daily life by the priorities of somebody else

and not working on things that I feel like make a difference in the way that I want to? Or do I want to actually challenge myself and actually self-actualize and go live the life that I was meant to live and make a difference? Yeah. Right?

These experiences, is they bring up these fundamental questions about making a difference, being there for people, and actually wanting to live life to the fullest. And that's why I love hearing about them, interviewing people about them, talking about them, because if it's just for a moment while you're at your commute for those that are listening or at the gym or other things, you get that glimpse of it's also short and finite. Why not go out and live your best life? and these stories and examples are reminders.

And then to finish off here, these signs take you in the right direction or a reminder that you're heading in the right direction. I just really want to say thank you because it's not what I expected to be sitting here having a conversation about this like so calmly and in such an accepted way. I was quite nervous that my new material would, that people would question it quite strongly. So, yeah, I just wanted to say thank you. Can you talk a little bit more about that? obviously you write about a lot in the book and the general skepticism, but what were you the most afraid of when people heard you talking about this material? What were you the most afraid of? But people would think I was crazy.

Like actually crazy or more like, hey, she is a neuroscientist, but she's gotten so far off. We shouldn't take her seriously. I mean, there's that. But I would be less worried about that because I worried about that when I wrote the source. because at the time I was very actively a professor at MIT Sloan and I was working, you know, mostly in financial services consulting. So anything to do with like manifestation was a real departure. And I guess I didn't have maybe like as much confidence as I do now in myself and my sort of research.

And then the response to that was so great that that really, really kind of made me feel like, yeah, I'm going in the right direction. I had no intention of going further down that road, but I was comfortable sitting at the intersection of science and spirituality. And I'm really lucky I have several, you know, really amazing icons, Dupap Chopra, Daniel Siegel, Bruce Lipton, where I can look at people who I really admire academically and professionally and see that they've gone down this road of becoming more and more spiritual

and it's not only okay, it's great. So that's the backstory. actually asked when I first pitched my book to Penguin Sales Team if I was worried about criticism. And I said no. And then I said, well, look, there's always going to be some, whatever anyone does. There's always some people aren't going to like it. But I'm confident that I can back up the things that I'm claiming with the research that I've done, which is all in the book. But because I was a psychiatrist myself, there were times that I had to look in the mirror and diagnose myself whether I had depression, whether I had psychosis. So around the time

of the first anniversary, I had read a paper on pathological grief and it basically said that the six month point is the low point and then people start generally to feel better, usually around the 10 month mark, but then the anniversary is really hard. And pathological grief is if you're still crying and ruminating on a very regular basis after the first anniversary. And I remember at five months, I remember very clearly being on Zoom with one of my close friends in L.A. atara Valentine,

saying if six months is going to be the lowest point, I cannot go any lower than I am at the moment. Like, I'm not going to make it. And I remember he had tears in his eyes, but he said to me quite quickly, I mean, he gathered his wits really quickly, and he said, but you've done so much work, maybe you've got there like a month early.

Maybe this is the worst point and you're going to start feeling better now. And he was right, of course. And by the 10 month mark, I was feeling better. I mean, you know, nothing compared to now, but relatively. And then my husband passed away on October 26th. So I was very aware that that date was coming

and I wanted to prepare myself mentally as much as I could. But from October 4th, I had the most intense physical pain all over my body that went along with a period of depression that lasted for six or seven weeks. So I was in physical pain. My mood wasn't going up and down. It was low consistently for six or seven weeks. My GP was begging me to take antidepressants. And I said, but I'm not depressed. I'm in grief. And she said, well, I think you're completely burnt out. I think you've got PTSD. and you're in grief. And this would just take the edge off it. But I remember even in that point feeling like, and this isn't for everyone, but for me, if I didn't find something within myself to get out of this,

I would never be able to trust myself again. But I had to look in the mirror and say, am I depressed? I had to go through the checklist of the questions that I would ask as a psychiatrist. And the one that I said no to was, you know, the one that made me think I'm not depressed was like, have you lost enjoyment of everything in life?

And the answer to that was no. There were still things that I could enjoy. So I thought, okay, I'm convinced. I'm happy to say I'm not depressed. I'm not going to take antidepressants at this stage. I'm not saying I would never take them, but that's where I'm at. Then, once I started to feel a bit better,

and I was really working out this communication with Robin, one of the ways it showed up was that I would get thoughts in my head that I knew weren't mine. I knew that he was putting them into my head. That's called thought insertion, and it's a symptom of schizophrenia. So again, I had to think, if I tell this to someone, are they going to say that I should be on a psychiatric ward? You're in it. You're talking about the worry of putting it out there telling people, like the legitimate fear of somebody thinking, like, okay, are you dealing with schizophrenia or some sort of, you know, other neurodisorder?

How did you know that you weren't? Like I said, luckily I was a psychiatrist. So I know, you know, I sort of know what all the other signs and symptoms that might go along with that were. If I had to, I could have gone to a friend who was a colleague who kind of got a second opinion. And I did very, I stayed close to my GP. So, yeah, no, I can tell you I wasn't. But I definitely had some things that are known to be signs of depression. and psychosis. And then I have to also say that writing the book was so hard. And I don't love

writing anyway, but obviously it has my personal story in it. And it didn't feel cathartic. It just felt very sad for a year whilst I was writing. When I finished it, this is slightly a joke, but I actually wondered if I was manic because I was just so happy. So I've been through like having to try and self-diagnose with the mental symptoms. quite a lot in the last few years, but yeah, I think I'm okay. Well, something that you write about in the book that kind of piggybacks off of that that I'd love to ask you is that I think most people listening today are in the wheelhouse of feeling like they've seen signs in their life.

They feel like they've gotten messages from people who have transitioned from this life. And yet still sometimes they feel, okay, am I being a little delusional about is that a sign or is that not a sign? Yes. So you knew you weren't schizophrenic. where you're kind of jokingly talking about it, but you're addressing it seriously. But I mean, what I would say is what I have hypothesized, and I'd love to have a professional conversation with someone about this, is that grief is like psychosis.

You know, your neurotransmitters and parts of your brain are inevitably working differently. Yeah. So that's my experience that parts of grief were like psychosis. And I actually think that makes sense. And I'm hoping that that could really help people when you down. out yourself, you know, you wonder if something's real. I mean, I saw my husband after he passed away. Came and stood by the side of my bed.

And visual hallucinations are not a sign of psychosis, but because auditory ones are. But, you know, for most people who, if that happens to them, they're not going to tell anyone. But I just think that's incredibly sad. I think we should be sharing these stories. And that's the thing that would take the taboo away of people thinking you're crazy. And that's why I'm doing it at great risk of being hauled off in a white coat. So sometimes people feel like they are, is this a sign or am I willing this into being that? Yeah. Can you talk about that?

That's where I think community is really important because it's somewhere, you know, it gives you psychological safety to share. But equally, I know that I've got friendships where this has been said and, you know, you need to make sure that you do have friendships where people. will say, I think you might be making too much of that or, you know, that's a bit of a stretch or I just want to check that you're okay. So you've got psychological safety, but you've also got a bit of a check and a balance, you know, so that you're not just going like too much in one direction that may not be healthy. And so one of my friends particularly said to me that

if she experiences a sign, it has to be something like she went out of her way and like walked in a different direction and wasn't meant to be in the place that she was when she saw the thing that she saw. For me, if I feel like I want something to be assigned too much, I place extra parameters around it, like I have to see the same thing three times. Or I might say that I might even make it further and say,

I have to see it three times, but it has to be in the next 24 hours. So it can't just be, you know, two weeks later I saw, you know, the number 88 or something. and that definitely means it's a sign. It's got to be, it can't just be put down to coincidence. So I, you know, I and some of my friends put parameters around them. Also, I feel like you need to know what your signs are.

So in the book, I put it sort of at the beginning, like, ask for a sign, ask for an unmistakable sign. And if it's a lost loved one, what I suggest to people is think of, you know, a fond memory with them or like an in-joke that only you and they really, knew about and think of a symbol that represents that and then ask for that sign to turn up in your life. But so, so it's asking. But later, you should actually really know what your specific signs are, like either that they're from someone specific or they mean something specific to you. And then when they turn up, it's more meaningful, if you know what I mean. When somebody sits down and they ask for a sign, should they be in any sort of

state, preparation, setting, are they verbally speaking out? Are they speaking to them the self? What have been the things that you've seen just, even if there's not evidence behind it, which probably there is some evidence and you talk about different ways to encourage signs in your life, but even from that you've seen from your own community, like how much reverence do we need to bring to this idea of asking for signs? So actually, the person who told me about the phrase, the unmistakable sign, was this documentary maker called Gemma, whose father had passed away. 10 years previously. And her mother had said to her, I feel closer to your father now than ever

before. And I ask him for unmistakable signs. It has to be one that is so obviously from her husband that there's just no way, you know, there's no other explanation for it. So I like that phrase and I took that phrase on for myself as well. What I've personally experienced is something similar to what I wrote about in the source called magnetic desire, which is like a really strong emotional ball to manifest something. So I have found that both in deep distress or in a really strong beautiful sense of connection with Robin or awe at something in nature or for me, ballet is a really thing that just stirs my soul. But at those two extremes, I'm more likely to receive signs like very quickly or very strong ones. So I'll give you a couple of examples.

And I do want to come back to the medium thing and how signs guide your life, because I've got a really cool story about that. A couple of years ago, do you remember there were two super moons in the August or September? Vaguely, vaguely. I can't remember whether it was two or three years ago, but it was around that time. And I was extremely distressed at the time. And I remember saying in my mind, so sometimes I might say it out loud, but usually my conversation. conversations with Robin in my mind, saying, if I don't get a sign from you, I don't know if I can carry on. And as I said that, I had this distinct feeling that it was a thought in my head,

I'm going to see Robin with the moon. Yeah, you write about this in the book. Yeah. And my assistant was living in Dubai at the time, so there was a three-hour time difference. And she said we're doing an ocean side ceremony. I put Robin's name in the, you know, in the thing that's going to get put out of the ocean. And so try to be, try to make sure you see the moon at 6pm. And I looked in my calendar and I had a work call at 6pm. So I thought there's no way I can go outside and see the moon. But then after the call, I thought, well, 9pm for me is going to be like the same as 6pm for her. So I'll go up to my roof terrace at 9pm. So I went up and the moon was still behind these three tower blocks and and I thought it's going to take a while for it to like rise above so

go all the way downstairs again and just come back in a couple of hours but then within 30 minutes I just had this really strong sense I have to go back up and see the moon and I took my phone with me not intentionally necessarily to take pictures but I had my phone with me and I could see the moon and two airplanes had crossed in the sky and their jet streams had left what looked like a kiss mark in the sky. So I took a photo of it and I sent it to a friend saying, you know, here's an amazing picture of the super moon, but also Robbins left me a kiss in the sky.

And then she said, oh my goodness, and I've taken three photos consecutively, like within seconds of each other and sent one of them to her. And she said, oh my goodness, can you see the cloud formation that looks like somebody's blowing a kiss, which I hadn't noticed? And I looked at it. The photos on either side, the clouds had changed, so it didn't look like that. The one I sent her, I could show you on my phone, one of the pictures of Robin and I at our wedding, where he's in profile, it looks exactly like that. This year, on Valentine's Day, I'd had a really nice day.

You know, my friends really take care of me. They'd taken me out. I'd spent time with various friends. But I was going home in the evening. And, you know, I'm pretty stoic. and I'm very grateful and I see like the beauty and knife. But I did feel quite sad that I was going to an empty home. And in my mind, I said, darling, you need to send me a sign for Valentine's Day.

And I heard a very familiar noise of a certain type of car that he had coming up from behind. And as it went past, it was red. And I thought, oh, well, he didn't like red sports cars. But I suppose it's appropriate for Valentine's Day. So that's nice. And, you know, that car sped off. I was stuck in a lane of traffic. And I just suddenly thought, I have to see the license plate of that car.

So what I've realized now is when I get this kind of like strong sense of I've got, I've got to see something or I've got to find something. That means the sign's coming. I've learned that over time. And I felt like there's going to be his initials RB are going to be in that license plate. And the chances of us catching up with that car were actually really slim because of the way the traffic was. But I did catch up with it. and I took a photo of the license plate,

and it was C-21, R-B-N. So I sent it to my assistant, and she said, well, R-B-N is phonetically Robin, so that's even more than R-B. But I was thinking, what's C-21? That's so random. I even Googled it, and it didn't really mean anything. And as I had cropped the photo to send it to her,

I suddenly realized what it was. And I said to her, what was his place and date of birth? And I've already told you his birthday was the 21st of September. His place of birth is Canada. So it's literally Canada 21, Robin. I mean, it could not be more specific. Even she said you've had so many signs,

but this is the biggest one. And like, I would be shaking if I were you. And then she said you probably are and I was. And I have so many more stories like that. but I want to tell one that's not, it's a bit less dramatic. Well, you make your mind up about how dramatic it is. Please, please, go for it. So I was actually having dinner with our mutual friend Rupy.

Yeah, yeah, Doctor's Kitchen. Yeah. And it was early and it was not far from my house. I just jumped in a London black cab that hailed on the street. And after about a minute, I guess from hearing my voice, the driver said, are you a doctor? And I said, yes, how would you know that? And he said, oh, I've DMed you on Instagram.

So I said, oh, tell me your name and I'll look it up. So I looked it up. There was quite a long exchange, you know, lots of hearted messages. Had ended like a long time ago, maybe even a year ago. And the last thing I had written to him was maybe you'll pick me up in your cab one day. Oh, my gosh. I know. Wow.

When I listen to these and, you know, I'm also listening to your stories with the audience in mind. And I think there's so many beautiful layers to what you shared. But one layer that I want to start off with is that every single person that's felt like they've regularly had signs or synchronicities or things that show up in their life that have given them solace. As you mentioned earlier, has felt like, man, I can't share this with people because this is crazy. Do I seem delusional? Right. Is there something, you know, wrong with me? And what if people don't believe me?

And the thing is that if you have these type of things, even if somebody's not been in a position, where they've had loss and have had the same signs that you've had, who cares if anybody believes it? Who cares of what, how interpretation is? The fact that it's happened to you and it gives you meaning and you have that individual relationship with it, like that's the first layer.

Like that's a beautiful thing. Like you don't need anybody else. Sure, we don't want to surround herself with constant negativity in any aspect of life. but it's okay if something means something to you. And I think there are sometimes situations where maybe family members wise or friendship wise, you don't feel like you're with a group that is going to be ready or ripe to be able to talk

about things. And it's okay to keep something for yourself. And in a way, listen to a podcast like this or find the work of somebody like you and feel like understood, right? It's okay to have that personal self-enjoyment. And then the next level up is that if you do feel comfortable and you do feel like there's other people in your life that have felt this way, I feel like these signs, these synchronicities in my own life have been an indication of the reminder that there's something so much bigger than us

that life and death is never a start and a stop, right? There's the existence that is so much bigger than what we all understand. Yeah. Maybe the energy that runs through all of us has been before we were born and is there after we die, right? So just whatever your interpretation is the idea that there's something bigger than just this three-dimensional world that we all live in and that our senses typically operate in. And then the last component that's on that is that is the sense of in my own life, again, I'm speaking for me, the more that I've been present to these synchronities that are there, it's just an indication of keep going. because there's times in my life where I've seen signs and yet something still hasn't worked out

maybe the way that my own personal ego on earth has wanted it to work out, right? And that's okay. There's plenty of times that we all want things and maybe we've seen signs and oh, we're meant to do this or we're meant to get that opportunity. We're meant to do that. And it hasn't worked out.

Yeah. But know that that's your own filter of you being a human being who wants things on this world. Yeah. Which is okay. It's okay to want stuff. But that doesn't, mean that you're not heading in the right direction of something bigger that's meant for you, even if it's not the thing that you feel you're supposed to, you know, get or receive.

Any thoughts about my interpretations of those things? If you're not in a group of people that wants to have that conversation, savor it for yourself. It's a gift. It's beautiful. And, you know, if a podcast like this can help people feel seen and understood, that's really important. I do think there is a bit of a zeit guy, so.

I mean, the success of the telepathy tapes is very interesting. interesting to me. But those that are not familiar, I mean, that series was incredible. Can you just give a brief overview of that if you haven't listened to that podcast? Yeah, so it's led by a woman called Kai Dickinson, who in season one, works with a lot of children on the spectrum of autism and investigates how they can communicate with each other telepathically and can predict things that they can't see. So, you know, they did tests where numbers and words were hidden and asked them to guess what the words were and there was quite a high rate of accuracy. There has been some criticism of this research as well. I'm just going to be really transparent about that. But season two, which I

haven't listened to yet, is going to be with, you know, people who don't have autism necessarily, but who demonstrate some sort of telepathic skills. And it's been hugely popular. And surviving death on Netflix has been hugely popular. Tyler Henry, really popular. Laura Lynn Jackson, who I love, who wrote signs and the light between us. These people are all gaining, these people, these not just people, these areas are gaining in popularity. And what's really interesting is that there are certain times

in society where we tend to turn more to the occult, like seances and regi boards. And so there were times in history where people turn to those things more. And I feel like we're turning to those things again now. So, for example, there's a breakfast television program that is very popular. And I went on it. And five years after the source had come out, the source went to number four on Amazon,

having been like book number 2,500 or something. And then two days later, a guy went on that same show who's, who'd just written a book called Angels Are With You Now, who was talking about the white feather being the business card of Angels. and his book went straight to number one. And I actually messaged him and said, I was on the show two days before you, my book went to number four,

but I'm actually so happy that your book went to number one because I think what you're talking about is really important. So, yeah, I'm hopeful that this is... It's getting out there. Yeah. Yeah. And the more that we talk about it, and the more that we are open to the idea that maybe there might be even people in our network

who are also open to it too, but just takes the courage of somebody to at least start the conversation. Yeah, exactly. That you never know how that could lead to the sharing of just some beautiful stories that are there. Yeah, and I also think like the sort of like taking some risks. Like you know how Dr. Bruce Grayson says that people who have had near-death experiences, they don't fear death anymore. And they also don't feel fear failure in life.

So they kind of do things maybe that they wouldn't have. So I'm just loofing this back to the story of the taxi driver. Please. So, you know, we had a nice chat and then we got to outside my house and he said, oh, let me come around and get the door for you, which isn't usual. It's just, you know, very good manners. And then when I got out of the cab, he had just this beautiful light energy and, you know, we're still friends now. So he's just a lovely guy. And he said, can I have a hug? And I said, of course. So he hugged. And then he said, this ride was on me and he just walked off and didn't let me pay. So I sent him a message saying, thank you. and a few weeks later, I had to, I was flying in late at night to an airport that's not the regular one I fly into in London. And I wasn't sure if taxis would be readily available at that time. So I'd asked him to pick me up. And I said, but you have to let me pay this time because we can't be friends if you, you know, I'm not going to ask you again if you don't let me pay.

So he did. But we had a long journey because it was far away from my house. and he told me that his grandmother was a medium. And again, I got gripped by this feeling like, I need to meet her. And without me even saying that, he said, oh, you know, come over for a cup of tea sometime and meet my mom and my grandmother. And they live, like, right across the other side of London from me. And I rarely go to that side of London. But I said, if I'm going to be on that side of London, I'll let you know.

Now, you can imagine quite a few of my friends were like, you are not going to the house of this person that you don't know. And I was like, I trust myself. I like his energy. I'm going to go. And I met his mom and his grandmother. And his grandmother's quite well known on Instagram. And it was just like being on a film sex. She was exactly the same in real life that she is on Instagram.

And then eventually after a while, Rooney's mom said to me, are you married? And I was still wearing my wedding rings then. And I said, before I answer that, I'd like to have a reading with, grandmother. So we went for a reading and she said, I need something, an object to hold. So I gave her my wedding ring. She said, has it always been yours? And I said, yes. And she said, oh, you've got a lot of love up there. You've lost a lot of people, haven't you? And I said, yes. And then she was talking about my grandmother for quite a while. And I adored my grandmother, but she died like 20 years ago. And I, you know,

I was hoping for something from Robin, obviously. So I was just kind of listening. And then she was holding my ring and suddenly she went, is there someone called Rob? And I mean, I could have fallen off my chair. And she then told me some things that no one except he and I could possibly know. So that was my best experience that I had with the medium. And that was, you know, she didn't charge me. She didn't know that I was coming there for that reason. And to me, that is one of the joys of following signs.

I would never have had that experience. She actually said to me, you know, the kind of people that you and I are, we weren't meant to meet in this life. So, you know, it's just, I think things like that, they happen now because, yeah, I feel this responsibility to live in this way because I've seen how quickly your life can get taken away from it.

Yeah. So much of those signs in the beginning was the reminder of almost the way that I'm hearing from you is that you're not alone. This great love of your life is still communicating with you. And then as you mentioned, it's the, it's the reminder of, hey, you're, you're meant to be here to do something. Yeah.

Right. Fulfilling your purpose. Sure. And you've also talked about, you know, step or from just separate from the idea of using signs as a way of navigating through grief and speaking to somebody who's transitioned on that there are times in your life and people that you interviewed for this book where they might be asked. for a sign about clarity and even something like purpose. Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So I think that like you've sort of, you know, so eloquently said, but let me just reiterate, is that where a sign comes from or whether it's real or not or, you know, whether you can prove that it means something is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what it means to you. And honing your intuition so that you can make meaning out of and interpret any signs that do come to you, that's your important job.

You can't control whether signs come to you at all or not. You can't control what signs come to you, but you can assign meaning to them. But you've got to do that in a way, like you said, that isn't just wish fulfillment, you know, in a way that actually gives you something that you wouldn't have come up with by yourself. So, you know, and, you know,

said something else about, I think you were talking more about material things or specific, you know, career goals or whatever that, you know, you can't always, you don't always get what you want. Well, you know, I didn't want my husband to die, but I accept that that was his journey. And now I know that I need to do something with, you know, the precious amount of life that I have left. And I don't think I have all the answers. So if signs come to me and I can try to work out what they mean, or if the minimum is that they're saying you're on the right path, then that's important. Yeah, super important. A huge framework of the book is that, you know, we live in this world of disconnection and almost all ancestral traditions had a much deeper relationship with these

signs in their life. And one key factor of that is that, we were always much more apart prior to like even the industrial revolution. We were much more a part of nature. And the more we remove ourselves from nature, the harder it is to have a deeper connection with these signs. Can you just chat a little bit more about nature and the role that it plays? Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because I was just thinking that's probably probably a really big

section that we haven't touched on. It's, you know, not necessarily in one podcast that you want to touch on every section of the book, but I think it's a really important one. So as the neuroesthetics researchers would say, nature is the palate that humanity has existed in for all time. So ever since we existed, we've been in nature. Nature has been around us. And we've been connected to nature for survival, for food, for shelter, and in ancient times for meaning as well.

so certain rock formations would mean certain things. And I was very lucky I got to work for two years with the Aboriginal communities in Australia. And I learned a lot from the Aboriginal liaison workers I worked with. So for example, white cockatoos are like pigeons in Darwin where I work. So they're on all the lamp posts. They're just all over the city.

But it makes me laugh because they're so beautiful and perfectly white, but they're just kind of like a pigeon. London. And there are some very rare black cockatoos, which you hardly ever see. But the Aboriginal liaison worker told me that they believe that black cockatoos are their transitioned ancestors coming back to earth in animal form. So that's one example of a spiritual connection with nature. Obviously, there's also plant medicine that people use to, you know, feel connected to nature in a way like I've written in the book about the mycorrhizal network, which is how the strands, the mycelium strands from mushrooms,

connect up with the roots of trees and they all sustain each other in a symbiotic way. I mean, this is science that we actually didn't know about until quite recently. And if you put that together with a fact like we share 54% of our DNA with mushrooms, mushrooms are more like humans and they are like trees, it starts to make you really wonder about the level of, connection between us, trees, mushrooms. And if you think about a life cycle, let's take a really simple one, the life cycle of a salmon. Salmon, you know, flows down the river to the sea, lays its eggs, new baby salmon's are born, and then they get caught by bears and eaten. And, you know,

I'm a doctor, so I'm going to say it how it happens. When the bear shits in the words and the bones of the salmon, and, you know, help to form the phosphorus and the calcium along the riverbed and in the floor of the forest that helps trees to grow. So there's, you know, a full cycle there. I mean, every, so the material that we are made up of as humans and animals comes from the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen from the Big Bang. So these supernovas imploded, release these molecules, and that's what we're made of. So this connection to nature is undeniable.

But it's interesting because first Americans say that their culture and their spirit was actually broken by being displaced from their lands. And, you know, I had a very specific conversation on my podcast with bird running water about why being in a different beautiful land wasn't the same because the rock formations meant something to them. The animals and plants that grew there were right for their gut microbiome. And so by breaking that connection, it broke people. And really what I've sort of said in the book is that we've broken ourselves in modern life by breaking our connection with nature, by not understanding that living in cycle with nature is really important to us. And, you know, when we think about the levels of mental illnesses and, you know, anxiety spectrum disorders and stress related illnesses that there are now, and then you see in. Japan and even now in the UK and I'm not quite sure about the US that doctors are prescribing time in nature because it actually works. It helps with these mental illnesses. And it's not just

because it's pleasant and it calms you down and it helps with your anxiety. Trees are releasing chemicals that boost our immune system. There are chemicals called fight onsides that trigger the release of natural killer cells in our immune systems and help us to fight off, colds, flu, even small tumor cells that circulate. So, I mean, I could go on about nature. I should actually probably write a whole book about it. But nature is going to survive without us, but we are not going to survive without nature.

So this connection to nature has to be given much more respect than we have been. I'm hopeful that as we learn more through the science, like, for example, about the microisor network, that we, you know, we will kind of remember this importance and reconnect in it. We can reconnect to it in a way that could save us, honestly. There's so many times where I feel like I've had an experience and I've heard from friends that have an experience that even something as simple as going on a walk without your phone, without listening to like a podcast,

and being in your version of nature just right outside your house. Yeah. sunlight, fresh air, no distractions, that so many people, and I've felt this way, feel like that's the moment that a sign, a message, something comes to them. And I think that's one of those reminders that to do a little audit, if you are in a place where you feel, I haven't felt like I've gotten a clear sign or I haven't felt like I've had that connection that's there. I used to have it and it's kind of gotten weaker. do you feel like time in nature is one of those things that can help encourage that to start coming?

Yes, I absolutely believe that time and nature, because it resets your nervous system, makes you more open to receiving signs. Because if you're busy and stressed, signs aren't crucial to your survival. They can help you to thrive. But, you know, if it's about putting food on the table, you don't necessarily need to see a sign. So, yeah, absolutely getting your nervous system into a state where you're able to receive. is really important. I think I mentioned earlier that a lot of signs

actually come from nature, feathers, butterflies, birds, heart-shaped objects often, you know, coming from nature as well. But also this art of noticing that I mentioned. So there's so much beauty in nature

and appreciating beauty helps the salience network in the brain, which helps you to notice things that you might not have noticed otherwise. So for me, those journeys have been very intertwined. time in nature was I mean my community is absolutely the be all and end all of you know everything that I love and the reason that I'm okay now but I was spending a lot more time in nature because I couldn't do anything else you know I'd wake up I'd wish I didn't have to go through a whole day I couldn't work I couldn't even eat at the beginning but I could go out for a walk and I knew I had to I knew I had to do something um

And then because I had time on my hands, I started going for longer than just what's good for your physical, you know, well-being. And I really could feel the effect on my mental health of just being a lot more in nature. Subsequently, I've actually moved back to the city full-time. But I have so many more plants in my house than I ever had before. And, you know, tending to them is quite important to me. Your environment kind of in your home is really important, too, curating that. So, um, As part of the research for the book, I looked back at some really old, almost probably the first evidence of neuroplasticity, which was about three groups of rats. One was in a neutral environment. One was in a deprived environment, so no toys or stimulation or like nature in the age. And one was in an enriched environment. Now, the ones in the enriched environment, their brains grew by 6%. And that's amazing. And of course, I would say to you, if you had 6% more brain power, what would be?

you do with that? You could be better at your job. But for me, I would want to expand my, my consciousness and see if I can, you know, receive signs, talk to people I've lost, or, you know, be more better at predicting the future or hone my intuition. But what shocked me about that experiment was that I thought the brains of the animals in the deprived environment would be the same as the neutral one, that their brains actually shrunk. So if you're not exposing yourself to beauty, if you're not exposing yourself to something that makes you feel awe, if you're not feeling regulated in your nervous system in your home, these things could actually be damaging your brain. It's not just that you're losing out on the benefits. It's so important that some of these

things that are just taken as, oh, they don't matter that much, like a walk outside, morning sunlight. Oh, it's a nice bonus. They're fundamentally so important to, you know, to our health, but also now the stage of thriving. If you've gone beyond, if you have some of the basics in your life, you have food, shelter, a place to live, et cetera, some of the basics you're not trying to just survive. Every single one of us wants to thrive. And signs can be a part of that thriving if we notice it and let it in. What are some other practices that you've found that have been helpful for people to hone that

intuition, which helps them be in a place to receive these messages from universe, God, source. So we actually haven't spoken about another major section of the book, which is connecting with your intuition. And this idea that I put forward based on a lot of trauma research, so you know that really famous book, The Body Keeps the Score, basically says that a lot of trauma is stored physically in the muscles and the fascia and it actually can't be accessed by talking therapy. So intuition is basically hidden wisdom, like that research is on hidden trauma. But hidden wisdom is all the life lessons that you've picked up in life, but you can't necessarily consciously recall.

That's not all just stored in your brain. It's actually stored in the muscles and tissues of your body and tissues including fascia. And possibly skin, because you know when you talked about the peacock and I said, oh my goodness, I've got goosebumps all over? Well, it's a very common phrase in my friends particularly, you know, certainly to say, oh, the hairs on my arm stood up on end. Now, why do the hairs on your arm stand up on end when you feel a strong emotion or you feel like something's intuitively right? We don't necessarily know the answer to that, but that's your skin having a visceral reaction to something that someone said or something, you know, that feels right. So there's a lot more going on in the body in terms of intuition than I think we understand at the moment.

So another major sort of section of the book is about getting more connected with your body to access that intuition. And sort of, you know, as I've spoken about expanding your consciousness, also understanding how physicality was so important to our ancestors for their survival. And that it's another way of opening up wisdom or powers that we have that we're not very conscious of because we live so much in our heads. in this modern world. So again, I went back to evolution and things like dancing, drumming, humming, chanting, yoga, they're all ways to get your mind and your body more connected and really unleash that intuition. You talk about, what was his name, Jamie Weill, Recapture the Rapture? We've had him on the podcast. He's a great guy. And he writes about it so detailed inside of his book about this idea that like, if you're not activating these senses through these different rituals,

rules that we traditionally used to have, you end up with all the byproducts of modern day disconnection that we're all dealing with. Feeling disconnected from people, not feeling like you have community, not feeling in your body healthy as a human being. Yeah, undisconnected from yourself in terms of meaning and purpose. Absolutely. And being able to be then now you're vulnerable to the hijackings of modern day society over scroll. gambling online, whatever the vices are that people are stuck in. Those are all byproducts of just feeling like we're not connected to our own sense of self. Yeah, and he's very specific.

So I've kind of gone back more to ancient wisdom, but he's very specific with things like transcranial electrical stimulation, transcranial magnetic stimulation, putting yourself into a state of hypercapnia or hyperoxia. So certain types of breathwork that increase oxygen and carbon dioxide levels in your blood, which can actually lead to altered states of consciousness, having sex and orgasm, dancing. I think he's got a few more on his list, which I can't recall right at the moment, but that is a really good book.

And yeah, breathwork is very important. So holotropic breathwork or conscious connected breathwork can induce an altered state of consciousness that's on par with a medium dose of psilocybin. I have written a little bit about psychedelics in the book, but I'm all for the natural ways of achieving similar experiences. Well, let's talk about one more natural way, and then I want to come back to psychedelics to ask a couple questions on it. But we kind of skipped over a little bit of this,

but a huge through line throughout the book is just the power of journaling and the role that it plays with this. So how do you use it in your life, right? Last time you're on the podcast, you talked about the power of action boards, something I'm sure that you still use in your life in some dimension or another. But what about journaling when it comes to signs, documenting them and making meaning of them? How does that show up in your life? Yeah. So I used to journal just in the regular way, like write, you know, what happened today or how I'm feeling or write about a dilemma that I'm experiencing.

And I don't know whether to, you know, my intuition says one thing, my logic says another. So it was quite like dear diary, to be honest before. Now, I wish I did it more because I clearly I forget signs because when I read back through my journal, I think, oh, I forgot that happened. So I do record my signs. But quite honestly, I get so many now that it would be a full-time job for me to be writing that them up the whole time.

But I read back over it too to remind myself like how powerful this is. And so I want to share a particular story because I don't only get signs from Robin. I was so connected to him. I was desperate to, you know, get signs from him. But then, of course, at some point, I started thinking, well, can I get signs from other people? And my father passed away shortly after Robin passed away. And so I decided to ask him for a sign because the first time I went on Diary of a CEO, I said at the end of it that I'd wanted to be an actress, but my father had said,

Oh, for my dead body. I love the story, by the way. But because I hadn't thought about that for a long time, but these words rang in my ears over my dead body. And I was thinking like, Daddy, you're dead now. Like maybe now you could give me permission if I want to pursue that. So I wrote in my journal, if my father gives me permission to become an actress, then I will bump into a famous actress in the next couple of weeks.

So I totally forgot that I had written that. put it aside, you know, moved on with my life. I'm the trustee of a charity and I was on the panel for the Carol concert that Christmas. And I went with a friend. So we met there. So we just met in the doorway. We were literally just saying hello.

So we hadn't sort of moved out of the way yet. And a woman came to walk past us. So I went to step out of her way. But she stepped in the same direction as me. So we physically bumped into each other. And then she walked off. and the friend I was with is actually a filmmaker and I said to her, oh my goodness, that was Anna Friel, I love her.

And then she did a reading at the Carol concert and the next day I messaged her on Insta and I said, thank you for reading for the charity that I'm a trustee of and, you know, you were my favourite reader or something like that and then I said, oh, I'm the person that you bumped into and you walked into the chair. and didn't hear from her for four days. So I thought like she hasn't seen it.

She's not going to reply. And then she replied and said, the day after I bumped into you, my brother, who's a doctor, sent me a podcast to watch on YouTube. And when it ended, your episode of Stephen came up. And I've been talking to you about my friends and family all week saying, what a brilliant mind. Wow. And you want to be an actress.

I can help with that. What did that make you feel? and how did that reverberate from there, right? I said it was a coincidence. You didn't know it was me. And she said, I swear, I didn't work out that it was you until I'd watch that YouTube episode and then you messaged me.

I worked out it was you. But it was when I read back through my journal and saw what I'd written. That was like breathtaking. I haven't done anything about it yet. I've stayed friends with her. And obviously she gave her permission for this to be in the book and everything.

But like I said, It's still, you know, I'm still like a child like in the candy store when this happens. It's like I eat the candy, but then the next time I get given candy, it's like I've never had it before. It's so good. And you never know when you pick back up that idea of what does it mean to be an actress for you and going down that journey. Just the fact that it happened. Yeah. And, you know, your dad's saying what he said over my dead body, like such a beautiful story, like, you know, a reminder.

And also, there's probably some party that feels like whether it's your universe and your dad being part of that, of course, all consciousness connected. Like he's in the background orchestrating a little bit of this to help make this happen. Is that was one of the feelings that you had? Yeah, I feel like all the people I love who have passed orchestrate things to make them happen. I mean, very strongly I know that Robin does that because there are just strange twists and turns that have happened in the last four years. they only make sense because I know how my husband thinks

and like what he would want to happen. But I did an even more, another experiment that might not have worked because the first person I lost that I was closest to was my paternal grandfather. I was 13 when he passed. And you know in Hinduism, obviously we believe that like the soul might try and come back and take the person that they love the most. So I remember for a year I had to sleep with like a key either next to my bed or like around my net because that's what my parents thought would protect me.

me. Interesting. I never really, I never knew that that was a thing. Maybe it's a Bengali thing. I don't know. So, you know, I mean, my grandfather lived in India. I only obviously saw him a few times when we would go over there, but we just had this absolute bond that I would say I haven't had with anyone until I met Robin. And so I was trying to get a memory of him to see if I could like get a sign from him. And I remember this particular outfit I'd been wearing when I was nine that he said to me, you look really lovely in that. And it was the colours and the polka dot skirt. So just to give an example,

I asked for something in polka dot that's like not black and white, so an unusual colour in a place like maybe where I wouldn't expect to see it. That's the sign I asked for. Nothing happened for a really, really long time. And then I was in a clothes shop, but out of place, not on the racket was meant to be on, was an item of clothing in polka dot that wasn't black and white.

And I remember thinking, this is actually going to make me cry. I remember thinking, grandfather, what took you so long? And immediately I got this like voice in my head that was like, you didn't ask me. Wow. All this time, you didn't ask me. Have there ever been times where you felt that you've asked for a sign and that sign didn't show up or didn't lead you to the thing that you had hoped for? I think that anytime I've had this conversation and I'm chatting with somebody who's so open and has felt these things. And also if we dig a little bit deeper, I'm also curious about is that not like did you ever wish for a sign and it didn't come, but also sort of what does that mean for you and how did you process that as a component.

So have you heard that from other people? Have you ever experienced that yourself? Well, I definitely did at first. Like I said, I'd heard people saying that they got signs from lost loved ones, but I wasn't obviously getting anything. The biggest thing I'll say about that is that it literally is a learning journey, like learning a language. So it's a bit clunky at first. And then it becomes much more smooth and consistent. But like with anything, like with manifestation, I guess, you don't always get what you want when you want it.

And part of it is I've learned that maybe that wasn't meant to be. Yeah. And that's okay too. But if I really need a sign from Robin, I will get one quite quickly. Yeah. I think the important part that you shared is that for anybody who's felt like, well, there was this hyper-specific thing that I wanted or that I wanted to hear from and I didn't get a sign is that maybe sometimes in life we're holding a little too tight and loosening up a little bit.

Now finally allows you to feel and hear and see opportunity that you previously were a little bit too attached to coming in one specific shape or form. So this is a sign. The signs just happen. Because I told you I did another podcast recording remotely this morning. Yeah, yeah. She said exactly the same thing with a different analogy. But it's not a concept that had really been in my mind.

But now twice and one day, she called it surrender. She talked about water streaming through your hands and you can't keep hold of it kind of thing. And you just said exactly the same thing. And I'm already now thinking, why are people saying this to me? What does this mean? Well, I mean, I'm less saying it to you. and more to the conversation because I think that there are times as people get into any

that start to train themselves and they're primed their brain more using the tools and tips and tricks that you talk about in the book and in both books, you can be a little hard on yourself and thinking, well, how come Dr. Tara is getting these such clear signs, which they're obviously hearing the top top ones that are there for you and there's small, subtle ones and there's this and there's that. And you can be a little hard on yourself. And I think that if you zoom out a little bit, I remember Eckhart Tolly one time I was at a talk in Malibu that he was giving over there.

I became friends with him a little bit when I met his partner at the time. And she spoke in an event and they wanted to come to New York City. And I kind of showed them around a little bit and they invited me to Malibu to go to one of their talks. And I remember him saying that, you know, a big part of what he talks about is like making sure that our ego is not running the show. and that we are truly seeing ourselves as a vessel for something bigger than us. The divine God, the universe, source, whatever it is. And he said that somebody in the audience had asked, like, I feel like I'm trying to be a vessel and I'm asking for this thing,

but it's not flowing through me and there's a blockage that's there. And he said, you know, paraphrasing here, because I remember exactly, he said, you know, one of the most powerful questions that we can ask is that, is that whatever you believe that higher power to be, whatever name that's there, is that, asking and being okay to ask out loud and you can do that in a private area if you don't feel comfortable doing that in front of other people, which is probably actually should be a private

area saying, you know, universe source like, what do you want for me and how do you want my life to unfold? That's how he phrased the question according to her. She was feeling a little bit confused about purpose. Yeah. But she was looking for it in such a specific way that you're saying, just be open. Just be a little bit more open. Yeah. And how does the universe want to work through you? And the more open you are, you might see an opportunity that you never or you overlooked or you didn't pay attention to.

And now that's the sign that's meant to carry you forward to the next stages of synchronicity on down your path. So I think that that's a beautiful reminder for me and for everybody else is that this can come up in so many different shapes and sizes. Yeah. And if you're feeling blocked, use these tools of. connecting to nature, step into your creativity, journaling a little bit, and being a little bit open to the way that it's meant to unfold and guide you. And I also want to say that I think that one can go too far with these things as well. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, so I would say at the sort of around two and a half years after Robin passed away, and again, it was around the Valentine's time, daytime when I get like a lot of signs. because he loved giving cards for like birthdays, Easter, Valentine Christmas, their anniversaries and stuff. I felt like I was in, you know, direct daily communication with him and that made me feel very happy. I don't really know what I had in mind particularly, but I was going to take it even further.

And I got to a point where I thought, this isn't the point. Because if I go down that road, I'm kind of disengaging with this life. And that's when I think I kind of put a bit of a mark in the road and thought, okay, you've got to where you really wanted. You feel connected with Robin. It's given you so much comfort. But now you have to actually live this life. You can't like go off and live in a forest and kind of like commune with nature and spirits yet.

So yeah, I gave myself like a sort of like a notice of a break line and was kind of like that's a. enough. And so I think there's something in there also. I'm trying to answer this question about people who feel like, well, I'm not getting the signs is that, you know, I've had times when I don't get them. It's a bit like manifestation maybe, because I've got more experience with that, obviously, that I feel like there can be months where I feel like nothing's manifesting. And then suddenly it's like everything comes at once. And that's when I say, okay, ask for everything that you want, because I don't know if it's the time, the place, people around you, whatever it is. There's just a time when it really works.

And in terms of like spiritual stuff and the other plane, there are certain times, places and people where the veil is thinner. So if you think of the Mexican Day of the Dead, that's the time when the veil between the lives is supposed to be quite thin. Certain people, like mediums, for example, could be people that can access other planes. and there are certain places like Ibiza and Hawaii and I'm sure other places around the world. I remember Jay Shetty talking about some temples in South India

where he said literally a portal. So there's all sorts of things like that. And I think you have to be in the right mental state, mental or emotional state. You have to actually recognize when a sign comes and, you know, next stage is I understand what it means. You know, this isn't science, but I'll say that they'll come to you and at the right time.

And there's so many times, my favorite times, let's say I'm reflecting with my wife, Yasmin, and we're doing some gratitude to just talk about, like, look back at the month that just passed, and we often, we'll go through this practice. We do it at the end of the year, but we'll do it throughout the year, too. We'll say, let's go back on the last month, and let's answer the following three questions. Let's talk about who's someone that helped you, right? it's a gratitude practice. So who's someone that helped you?

What's something that you made progress in, no matter how big or small? That was tough, but you made progress in it and you want to acknowledge that. And the last one is who's someone that you helped? And in this process of reflecting, which is why I'm such a huge fan of gratitude, so many times you realize this thing that happened to you was actually something that you had asked about before and maybe there's a tie-in on a sign or a manifestation. and you've kind of forgotten about it. Yeah.

And gratitude is that practice of remembering. Like I actually wanted to make progress on that. Or I asked for help from the universe for a mentor or friend that could show me, you know, the path down that or some guidance. And you got it. And in our modern world, if you don't take time to reflect, it's so easy to just, okay, that was great. Let me move on to the next thing.

Yeah. And it's like, dude, do you realize how much magic just took place in this, like, month or year or a couple years. And I think if you don't use that opportunity to reflect and document in whatever way feels comfortable to you, it's so easy to feel like you've forgotten about all that. And you're now just on to the next. And why am I not getting any signs? It's like, wait, wait, wait.

Did we take a moment to celebrate everything that just happened and acknowledge that? And even some things that you forgot about. There's goals that have had friends. I've had friends that had financial goals in their business. and I've said when I first met them like, man, if I could only get to this place inside of the business, that'd be amazing and everything. And then, you know, the business grows and they've moved on to things. And they're talking about some challenges that are going through in the business.

And I'm like, okay, look, the challenges are real and they're there and let's talk about them. But can we take a moment to appreciate the fact of this happened, this happened, this happened, you've actually hit the valuation or you've done the level of revenue or you've created the net worth that you've said in the beginning or you've even blown past it. Have you taken a moment to acknowledge that? And they're like, oh my gosh, I haven't. I've been so busy in the day to day. I've kind of just completely forgotten about those things. Yeah. Yeah. And that that in and of itself is not good, right? It's so sad that we're always like achieving and then just moving on to the next thing and not really, um, even acknowledging, like the things that we achieve that we wanted. It's, it's once they're achieved, it's almost like they

don't matter anymore. But I think giving gratitude, appreciating beauty is really for me, like the next layer of from giving gratitude. It has the same effect in the brain in terms of oxytocin and cortisol. So both being given gratitude and appreciating beauty will increase levels of oxytocin and therefore reduce levels of cortisol, the stress hormone, meaning you're much more likely to be in the parasympathetic rest and digest state than any cortisol, sorry, sympathetic, bright, flight, fight state. Yeah. And I think actually where, you know, where we sort of come to this conversation was a little

bit about that surrender as well. You know, sort of, yes, of course, ask for the signs, do the things that you can to move yourself forward towards your purpose. But, yeah, also surrender a bit, leave a bit of space for magic, like I used to say with the action boards. But now I say it more in terms of, I really believe. you know, there's a bigger picture, there's a greater perspective, there's something, we don't have all the answers.

And kind of, you know, really doing these important daily practices of gratitude and appreciation of beauty and, you know, connection with others, those are the things that build up to everything you actually want happen. As we wind down here, I think one thing that a lot of people are thinking about in the back of their mind, and maybe they've gone through these different stages, what happens when we ignore the signs that life, God, the universe, source is giving to us? The first thing that came into my mind, two things, actually. One is that that would be like ignoring signs or symptoms of an illness.

You know, if your body is sending you signals of pain, or if your body is sending you, you know, something that's changed in the way that it works, and you ignore that, could lead to something really bad. And I'm not saying that if you ignore signs, it's going to lead to something bad. It's more that they are there. And if you ignore them, then life can carry on just as it is. And that could be fine for some people. But if you can also incorporate them into your life, it honestly can be so much better. I mean, I think about the number of people I've had this conversation with who say, I don't think I've received signs. But once it's clear what it is and how it works quite quickly they say oh i received a sign and and more than that i had someone saying to me

that they'd lost their father and that he comes to his sister so his father comes to the daughter in her dreams all the time but this guy said to me i don't get any signs and i said well what would be something that was you know sort of something that you and your father had in common that that you know maybe no one else did and he said chess um i said okay well you know watch out watch out for a science to do with chess. And he said, well, actually, the other day, I actually found my chess book on the shelf again, and I'd forgotten it was there.

And I decided that I'm going to reread it. And actually, I've set up a chess tournament at the office. And I said, I think your dad is already speaking to you. So, yeah, I think it's, it can really change your life once you bring that into your life. Life can be fine without it, but, and a tragedy pushed me towards looking, for that, but it doesn't have to be the case for everyone. Nothing has to go wrong in your life. It's just like an extra thing that you could have.

And the other thing I was thinking about when you said about ignoring signs is this is one that I hear a lot, which is when a relationship's breaking down, but someone's really trying to hold on. So they're ignoring all the signs that it's really wrong. And basically they just draw out the pain for longer because they don't want to see the signs. So, I mean, those are the sort of examples. that came to my mind. Yeah.

I like the disease analogy that you wouldn't ignore pain. And you would give it the attention that it needs and sort of investigate what's going on or what's happening there. And I think that same sort of curiosity has to be approached to there might be genuine times in your life that you feel like, hey, I'm getting a lot of signs that this job is not the job that I'm meant to be in or this person that I'm partnered with is not the person that I'm meant to partner with or that I'm heading down the wrong track with X, Y, or Z. but there's the physical reality that we live in a world where it might not be the right moment

for you to make the transition, the move, the next leap. But that doesn't mean that the sign isn't valid. And there's ways that you can give reverence to that sign and honor it and still say, I see this and I'm not in a place where it's the right moment. But I'm also praying for, asking for, you know, sitting out the, intention to signs that show when it is the right moment. Yeah. Right?

Like you can still honor a sign even if it feels like this is not the right moment to take action in the way that you're interpreting it. And I've been in plenty of places in my life of that. Like I'm starting to get subtle cues and signs that I need to go in a different direction and they get louder and they get louder and they get louder. And then it's the time to be able to do something about it. Yeah. And I think that that experience could be different for different people.

Yeah, sometimes it's right away, sometimes it's this, it could be anything else in between. Yeah. Is there anything else that you feel that you want to leave our audience with as we start to wind down today's conversation? I mean, I think my overall message really is about, you know, how much more we're capable of than we realize and how incredible we are and an incredible something that we're part of that, you know, maybe we don't fully understand yet. And so I'll leave you with, you know, another one of the sort of way. that I described this, which is how many senses do you think we have? Well, you've read the books, so I can't really ask you. But you're asking for the audience. Most people would say five senses. Yeah. And I think some people say, oh, don't we have a six sense? And that's either usually thought

to be intuition or some people think balance might be the six sense. But so I made a very strict criteria for what qualifies as a sense. And it has to be a stimulus that affects a receptor that has a response in your body and create some kind of physiological outcome in your body. So by that definition, intuition wouldn't be a sense, physiologic. So when I started writing the book,

I started doing some research and I found an academic paper that said we have 22 to 33 senses. But then I did further literature reviews to see if there was like anything that wasn't overlapping between the different bits of research. And in time to finish writing,

the book, I came up with a table of 34 senses. Now, most people don't know that we have those, and some of them are non-conscious, things like the pH levels of your blood or the oxygen or carbon dioxide levels in your blood. But obviously some of them are conscious, like how full your bladder is or how full your stomach is and, you know, the obvious five. But for example, taste is subdivided into five that count as individual senses. and Um, and Umami was only discovered in the 1980s. So we're learning things all the time. And I think

that's what I want to leave people with in terms of the nature of consciousness and, you know, the abilities of our minds and our bodies is that we don't know everything yet. Um, we perhaps even don't know things that our ancestors did know, um, that we could try to remember. And to just not be afraid to push the boundaries of who you are and what you're capable of. A super important and timely reminder in this stage where one of your biggest piece of advice from the last time you were here is that you were saying, you don't know if any neuroscientists that regularly are captured and are watching the news, like on an ongoing way.

And I think that, especially in this day and age that we're in right now, the destruction of life can capture you so easily. Yeah. They'll pull you away from those signs that are there that are trying to send you these hidden messages of the universe to unfold your higher, greater good to support yourself and be there for other people. And it takes a little bit of courage to pull back a little bit and say, hey,

I need to give my senses, myself, my brain a little bit of space here to tap into what it divinely and uniquely knows. And if I can do that on a round, regular basis. It's not about going and being a monk in the Himalayas. It's just tapping to that on a daily basis through whatever practices that are there, many that you talk about in the book. I can start to be open to receiving something greater than I could have ever imagined in my life. That's how I see this message. Dr. Tara, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. Another third

opportunity to jam out on the podcast, which I feel like, you know, we get these opportunities to hang out as friends, which are so beautiful. And then also, too, how many times in your life are you sitting across somebody that you appreciate and you so adore them and their friendship, but you also review their work, where you get two, three hours to just sit across from them to, like, talk to them and, like, make eye contact and hear about their life and these stories and other things. So that is definitely one of the benefits of having a podcast and having guests like you make it all worthwhile. Definitely, because I learned something about you in this episode that I didn't know so far. Well, I'll tell you one other thing. I went to a medium and she's here

in Southern California, maybe I'll connect you guys. My wife had gone to her, and we had just lost somebody in our family, and I wasn't even going to specifically talk about that. And we started the interview, started the session, and she said, you know, before we go any further and you might have questions, I want to ask you, there's a male that's here that's older, and he has like a mustache, and he's going like this. And for those that are listening, I'm doing like a salute, like a salute, like a military salute, who is this person that's here? And I was astonished. And my wife hadn't talked

about this recent loss that we had in the family. Nobody had talked to her about that. And she was describing my uncle who had just passed away, very tragically. And always growing up, we lived a few hours away from each other whenever he would see me, he would say like my full first, middle, and last name, and he would salute me. That's always the way that he would greet me. Like something hyper-specific, right, that nobody could have ever imagined. And I remember just thinking, all right, if you needed a little reminder, here's your little reminder that's there.

And we went on to have a beautiful conversation further from there. But anyways, I just had to complete that story because we talked about it earlier. Yes, I'm glad you did. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your work. I'm so excited that you jumped into this. it's going to make a difference for a lot of people.

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