Dhru Purohit Show - You Might Be Taking Your GLP-1 All Wrong: How to Successfully Take Weight Loss Drugs, The Truth About Microdosing, and Side Effects You Need to Know About with Dr. Tyna Moore

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth, BiOptimizers, and Bon Charge. Today on The Dhru Purohit Show, I sit down with Dr. Tyna Moore to discuss the evolving landscape of GLP-1 drugs, what “microdosing” really means, and how these medications can impact health, especially for middle-aged women. Dr. Moore breaks down common misconceptions about GLP-1 dosing, the potential benefits and risks, and why working with an informed healthcare provider matters. She also shares what women should know about protecting muscle, supporting metabolic health, and taking a more personalized approach to GLP-1s and long-term disease prevention. Dr. Tyna Moore. She is a board-certified naturopathic and chiropractic physician and the founder and owner of Core Wellness Clinic in Portland, Oregon. She specializes in non-surgical pain management, natural pain solutions, and regenerative injection therapies for orthopedic and musculoskeletal conditions. Moore has a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (N.D.) from Western States Chiropractic College and a Doctor of Chiropractic (D.C.) from the National College of Naturopathic Medicine. In this episode, Dhru and Dr. Moore dive into: (00:00) The Evolution of GLP-1s (4:08) Microdosing vs. Standard Dosing (8:29) How GLP-1 Microdosing Works (13:34) GLP-1 Side Effects and Risks (27:16) Labs to Check Before Starting a GLP-1 (31:26) Finding the Right Healthcare Provider (35:43) What Standard GLP-1 Dosing Looks Like (38:40) The Benefits of Microdosing GLP-1s (48:44) GLP-1 Success Stories (54:15) What the GLP-1 Research Actually Shows (1:00:48) Debunking GLP-1 Myths (1:13:17) GLP-1s, Menstrual Cycles, and Hair Loss (1:16:58) GLP-1s, Heart Health, and Hormones (1:20:57) Can You Cycle On and Off GLP-1s? (1:24:55) Final Takeaways on GLP-1s Also mentioned in this episode: Try This - Are GLP-1 Drugs Making People Blind? The Menopause Rebellion For more on Dr. Moore, follow her on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or visit her Website. This episode is brought to you by Cozy Earth, BiOptimizers, and Bon Charge. Right now, get 20% off your Cozy Earth sheets and sleepwear. Just head over to cozyearth.com/dhru and use the code DHRUP. Upgrade your sleep! Go to bioptimizers.com/dhru now and enter promo code DHRU to get 15% off your entire order and unlock free surprise gifts.  Right now, Bon Charge is offering my community 15% off their Red Light mask. Just go to boncharge.com/dhru and use code DHRU to save 15%. Sign up for Dhru’s Try This Newsletter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Tino, welcome back to the podcast. For those that are unaware, you were on the podcast super early when there was this big debate of, are these GLP-1 drugs going to be something that radically helps improve our health and reduces obesity and improves metabolic health? And yes, there are some concerns, but we can manage those concerns. Or a lot of people in this space were worried, are these drugs going to give us cancer? Are they going to make us blind? Are they going to be the downfall of society?

Because you know what? There's no free lunch. It can't be that easy. It can't be that straightforward. And now, you know, August 26, so many individuals that are out there that were really sounding alarm that these drugs are going to be the downfall of modern society. Respectfully, a lot of them have come out and said, hey, as I've gotten further into it, I've especially had friends go through and take some of these drugs who needed it, I've changed my mind and I've been more open-minded.

And largely I see the benefit that they're bringing and also the pipeline of drugs that are going to be coming down the line that are going to continue to get better to really help with the most dangerous and tough things, which is that modern society and modern processed food and, you know, overuse of indoor light and lack of sun and lack of community, all these things are driving so much food noise and so much confusion in the body that it's people's systems have been hijacked and a lot of people even if they weren't super overweight needed a little bit of a boost needed a little bit of a step to help usher in a new stage of health for themselves so that's kind of how i've seen a lot of this did i get that right

and anything else you want to add to the state of the union of g lp one drug in 2026, August 2026. Yeah, I think, you know, a lot is transpired and I've, you know, weaved and dodged through it. I think early on I took a lot of bullets and a lot of heat that no one else was willing to take. And I think I kind of opened that door to make it okay that we have this conversation, you know, and that people were like, huh, I kind of changed my mind around GLP-1s. And so I've been glad to be able to do that for people. I feel like a lot of it's gotten misconstrued and it's gotten out of control.

the inmates are running the asylum a little bit in some areas. There's some really remarkable things happening in the space. It's not all, you know, unicorns and butterflies, and it doesn't mean that there's not hard work involved still, but I think that these peptides and medications have some amazing potential that we're just starting to discover. On the note of changing their minds, you were a huge part of that. After the episode where you were on, I hired from so many of my audience members that they so appreciated the discussion and they felt like they were now open to their family members exploring it or they might be considering it. I have no connections to any of this. Like I'm not invested in anything. Like I just want to like learn and have our audience learn.

This is why I've had you on. You know, sometimes when you start talking about things, we were like, oh, like, what secret sort of thing do you have out there? You know, I don't have anything out there. You have no skin in the game besides educating people and wanting to have their health be better. Yep. And I mean, no ties, no conflicts of interest. In fact, I've turned down in the past few years, I have turned down hundreds of thousands of dollars in offers to work with different telemedicine companies and different GLP1 suppliers. No, in fact, I think Big Pharma took my Instagram account down in 2024 after we last spoke or I think I told you about it at the time. So I don't think I'm their friend. Yeah, well, we still appreciate that. And it's, I think it's important to talk about

these things in the beginning. So now that we have established a little bit of background, catching people up who may not be privy to our prior episode or what the state of the world is around this topic. And we've established that there's no conflicts of interest that are going on over here. We're just here to have a discussion and have you drive education. What is most top of mind in this day and age when you say that inmates are running the asylum? What do you mean by that. So my original hypothesis and strategy around microdosing GLP-1s was using far subclinical dosing, like a fraction of the standard starting dose. So using a fifth to a tenth of the standard starting dose, maybe going up to as much as halfway, the halfway point of the standard starting

dose. But it was not a weight loss strategy. Somehow people took what I said and decided, Dr. Tina says, GLP1s are safe at any dose and they didn't want to listen to what I was actually laying down and they sort of took this term microdosing and ran with it. They are very often giving the standard starting dose and calling it a microdose. So I'm hearing sort of two separate things and you correct me if I'm wrong. Number one, your microdosing when you're talking about it if people really looking at it, it's so much lower as a fractional microdose than what people, you know, what was out there, especially with these pens. And often people would need compounding, need to work with somebody who was doing some sort of compounding.

A lot of these telemedicine companies got into the game, but even what they were calling microdose was so much larger. But also, as part of what you were saying, that when you were talking about microdosing, your goal was never to primarily support weight loss, that's the part that I was a little bit confused about. Like, some people might have weight loss, but your goal with microdosing was never about weight loss.

Can you expand on that a little bit more? Like, why was that never part of what you were talking about? Sure, because there's a lot of, of folks hitting middle age who are have worked really hard doing all the things. They work really hard on their health. They really prioritize their health over the years. But we still have issues. We still have autoimmune disease. We still have brain fog. We still get hit by menopause. We still might get a little, you know, middle age, middle happening because some shifts in insulin sensitivity are occurring. And we need help too. We have cardiovascular risk factors too. We have

neurologic risk factors too. And so my initial strategy, I'm talking two very different cohorts of people here, not to dismiss this group that does truly need a more standard dosing for removing excess weight for type 2 diabetes. But I was really talking in the patient base that I primarily deal with, which is much more of that longevity space, where we're just optimizing an already pretty well dialed in system. And so sprinkling a little GLP1 on it could have profound impact. for people when it came to joint pain. I particularly started it for, you know, neuroinflammatory reasons, psoriotic arthritis pain, had patients on it for Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, PCOS, correcting brain fog and ADHD type behavior because it really quiets down noise in the brain,

not just food noise, but like all noise, and giving people a little bit more ability to sort of stay on track. Lots of different reasons. Maybe a little impact on helping people not want to drink, or smoke cigarettes, all kinds of addictive behaviors I saw it having impacts on. And so that was a different beast than weight loss. But the industry kind of grabbed the term and said it was a more gentle weight loss strategy with less side effects. It was safe. There was less stigma. So a lot of people started grabbing that term saying, I'm microdosing because they didn't want the stigma of using it for weight loss. But they were indeed 20 pounds or more lighter, you know, maybe 30 or 40 pounds lighter.

And they weren't microdosing. They were taking a pretty appreciable dose, and that's okay. Like, I don't want to, whatever people's goals are with it, whatever they need to take is totally fine. I'm not judging. But it just got, it's two very different things. Does that make sense? Yeah.

And so partly it's, you know, for people who are using the term to say, hey, I'm not like the other people who need the full dose. They were still losing weight and they wanted to lose that weight. It's just that the term could mean a lot of different. different things. So is this primarily, hey, if you hear Dr. Tina talking about microdosing, you see a brand or a telemedicine brand talking about it, you see somebody else, influence or talking about it, it could mean different things. And you've got to make sure you do your own research to see what is actually important and what do you genuinely need

as an individual. But is it safe to say that a lot of people do want weight loss and at least especially for that 40 plus demographic, a lot of women who feel like that redistribution of fat that ends up happening as they get into perimenopause, menopause, where a lot of the fat that was in other parts of their body, they're starting to notice in belly fat, which is well established. If they wanted to pursue the Dr. Tina Moore, you know, yes, I want these other benefits of quieting the noise, and I feel like I have 10, 15 pounds extra, especially in my midsection. will microdosing in your approach still be something that could help them achieve those goals? If they're in really great shape to start.

So if they're coming in the door and they're kind of in the 1%, my age cohort's kind of a mess, admittedly, we're not in great shape, you know, and I get it. Like I just recently went through a major family emergency and my health fell apart and I gained 20 pounds. Like, I get it. But they're usually looking at like a half dose or up to standard dosing. And that's okay. The reason I'm concerned here is because I have followers who tell me they're microdosing, but they're having severe side effects.

And I'm like, really, how much you're taking? And they tell me, and they're not microdosing. They're not anywhere near microdosing. And what the doctors are telling them is, yeah, this is one-tenth of the dose, but they're referring to the max dose. Yeah. So they're preying on these women, and these women are well into the tiers of standard dosing, which is fine, except they're having horrific side effects.

And it's clearly a little bit too much for them. believe whatever the marketing is or whatever they heard me say that they interpreted that this is fine and safe. And I'm like, no, there's still risks involved, especially as we get up in higher doses and you're not on a microdose. And they want to argue with me about it. And I'm like, I kind of think I might know what I'm talking about here. But it's concerning. And we can just say it. You know, the starting dose of semaglutide is 0.25 milligrams. And the starting dose of her's appetite is 2.5 milligrams. And people often are talking about how many units they're on, but they don't know the strength of their bottle. I have to know milligrams per ML. So they're like,

oh, I'm only on two units, but it might be a highly concentrated vial, and it's quite a dose. So these are important things to know. It's, again, no shade if that's going well for you and you feel great on it. Absolutely no judgment. And I'm not trying to be the keeper of the term, but the way that I intended it, you know, maybe somebody's got a risk for, like in my case, I have severe autoimmune disease in my family. And so the risk for me was like, well, can I nip this in the bud? Can I quell some of the symptomology that I might be having or some of the future risk factors? It was a different strategy.

It's almost a different mechanism of action when you're talking that low versus a more, this is physiologic. This is pharmacologic. It's a different impact on the body. And again, that's okay. It's just what are the short term and long term goals of the individual using it? No, that's so important. And really what you've established here is that a lot of people think they're microdetic.

But they're not microdosing. They're on the lower dose of the sort of full range. And whether they're taking semi-glutide or they're taking trisepotide and then now some people are experimenting, you know, with some of the other peptides that are out there that are a little, you know, from different compounding pharmacies. But if they are experiencing symptoms and we're about to go through the most common ones that you're noticing out there. And I definitely have had family members, friends that are not working with like a wellness practitioner who have dealt with this. They may not be saying they're microdosing because they're not really familiar with that term, but they just were told through a practitioner that they're on a super low dose. Yeah, they're on the low end of a

standard range of doses and they're still having side effects. But my friends that are doing great, and I talk about this on the podcast all the time, I had a friend that struggled with, you know, being overweight his entire life and really was doing, you know, caloric restriction and these other things. And when he was so on the money, it would work, but it's also a lot of effort, a lot of energy, a lot of components that were there, a lot of things he had to manage at the same time. He had sleep apnea for a long time that that wasn't fixed, finally got fixed, he lost some extra weight from that. There was so many aspects of his journey that was there, but the food noise was always still a motivating factor in the background. And when he got on a

compounding dose, actually a more fractional dose of trezepatine, he was able to lose weight that he had been holding on to for years. His confidence went up. He was working out more. because he felt better. It led to so many cascading effects. And I contrast that with, you know, family members who are on these full doses, they got super skinny. They're afraid to get off of it. And I'm even talking about guys, right?

Guys that had these big beer bellies. They got skinny. They're afraid to get off of it. But they lost their sexual appetite in life. They lost their motivation for things. They were grumpy all the time. Like they didn't get pleasure from food. And I'm like, dude, what kind of?

existence is this that and you're not that old you're like 60 you want to live the rest of your years and now you're so much more frail but anyways what side effects are you seeing out there in the world when people are on these standard doses even if it's on the lower end of the range my days are pretty full right now between work the podcast workouts and family time by the end of the day i'm ready to shut things down and lately there's one small thing i genuinely look forward to changing into my cozy earth pajamas. And I'm not the only one. My wife has a set too,

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You won't find this on Amazon, in stores, or anywhere else. That's bioptimizes.com slash drew with the code Drew D-H-R-U for 15% off today. I think the first one is kind of what we're alluding to, which is microdosing kind of became synonymous with vanity weight loss for a lot of these, a lot of women I see. I'm sure you see it where you live. I live in North Scottsdale. You live in L.A. Like we've seen a lot of women go from healthy, maybe a little excess weight to now emaciated.

And no judgment, but that is not a good strategy. as you age. That is not a good place to be in your 50s if you want to not break a hip in your 60s and 70s. And so I'm seeing a ton of it. I go to the gym all the time and I see these severely malnourished women. They have absolutely no gluteal muscles left. They have no fat left on their gluteal area. They've got no thighs. They have string being legs. They look like very young teenage girls almost. That's borrowing from your future self. And we know frailty is coming for all of us, especially Caucasian women, thin Caucasian women with light eyes. Like we are osteoporosis sitting ducks.

And so that to me has been very concerning. And they're like, oh, I'm on a microdose of a GLP one. And I'm like, I don't know what you're on, but it's too much, you know, and you're wasting. And so I think wasting is a big one, just in general. Of course, the more acute ones would be the chronic nausea. That seems to be one that people will just write it out. You can have some bowel changes when you onboard, even at a microdose. can start to have shifts in your microbiome and so you can have some bowel changes. But I think really

that's it. I think it's the wasting. It even happened to me. Like, you know, right after I was on your podcast, I kind of went on this podcast tour and I was all over the place. I was always on planes. I was all over the place. And I lost my regularity with my gym workouts and I lost my regularity with my strength training. And I was kind of eating on the road and what have you. And I started wasting away. And one day my husband's like, where's your ass? Like what happened? because that's kind of like a feature that I've always had and it was gone. So there I was with those EMPIC but on a microdose, no less. I mean, truly a microdose.

And so I think that you can get kind of caught up in that. We like appetite control. We don't want appetite crushing. And you also, I do think there's a mechanism. It upregulates the AMPK pathway, which will automatically sort of downregulate MTOR. And MTOR is your muscle building pathway. And I've heard Dr.

Gavreel Lyons speak on too is just. We don't want to crush that side of things. It's like a teeter totter. And I think chronically ramping up AMPK is not always ideal unless you're balancing it out. And so if you're not really progressively overloading, not just playing around, dinking around with dumbbells. A lot of women are excited about the strength training nowadays, but they're just dinking around with dumbbells. They're not actually progressively overloading and taking it to failure. I see a lot of men just sort of turn into this melted candle look, whether they're on a low dose or even a higher dose.

And that's not great. That long term is going to be, I think, a complete disaster on their metabolic health overall and their bone health and their muscle health. They're looking at a very brittle metabolic picture if they choose to come off because they've lost more muscle than they even came in with. And they are looking at bone fragility as they age, which we all are. I mean, that's the kiss of death. A hip fracture truly is the kiss of death. So the stats around that are not good. Yeah.

What about loss of joy? Is that something that you're seeing as well, too? loss of joy, loss of interest in even like sexual pleasure, sexual connection that somebody once enjoyed. Do you see any of that? Hugely. Yeah, even on microdoses. It's called anadonia. I call it that moment where GLP1 sucks your soul out. And it's, that's why I said, I think I said this on your show before, a little too much is a lot too much. And it can be just a touch. And even when people are in the standard dosing tiers, it happens all the time. So yes, this peptide,

plays on your dopamine pathways. And so you just kind of lose the drive to do a lot of things. It's not a great place to be. And it's, I've seen it in loved ones. I've seen it in myself. It's just a little bit too much. And all of a sudden, you are just lifeless and you're sitting on the couch. Another interesting thing that happens when you lose weight, you stop moving as much because your body is naturally trying to downregulate and deal with that new metabolic reset. And it does so by slowing you down. And so there's even studies showing that people move less when they're on GLP-1s. But I would argue that people move less when they're on a weight loss journey anyway.

And that's more of that neat type of thermogenesis. It's non-exercise activity. So it's the fidgeting and the walking around and the moving around. They end up just kind of plop down on the couch. And that puts you into more of a wasting state too, right? Because you're just not moving as much. I think it compounds. There's a couple different things.

going on here. And then that AMPK pathway being cranked up. I think all and all, you can really end up in a pickle. I am dealing with it. I am coming out of it and I am, you know, that coupled with a ton of stress that I went through in the last year. And I am trying to rebuild muscle that I lost. And it wasn't just the GLP1 by any means. It was a lot of factors. But I should clarify, you know, I cycle this. And so I have been off of it more than I've been on it in the last year. It wasn't that in particular. It wasn't the GLP1, but I did lose some muscle while I was on it, even at a very low dose, because I was just sort of like slugging along in some cases. So even a tiny little dose for me, I think, kicked in some of that indifference, if you will. It's kind of a feeling of indifference that

you're speaking of. And people just kind of like, me, they get the mess. They don't, nothing really interests them. They don't want chocolate. They don't want alcohol. They don't want sex. They don't want food. They don't want anything. Yeah. So I'm hearing from you that on top of the normal ebbs and flows in life. You had cheer oil like you had like a family emergency that came up. And that kind of like has been all encompassing for you. And then previously you were traveling a ton and you're going on different podcasts. And so the natural busyness and people are busy and they're not eating as much or they're not working out and they're not regular. So these things happen. These are part of normal life and they happen to all of us at different stages. My wife had a baby and I'm a new

father. And so we're navigating that, you know, that aspect. And so what I'm hearing from you is that on top of these normal things, these ebbs and flows that happen in life, and on top of the normal muscle wasting that hits a lot of people just because they're not as active, they're not prioritizing, their body's not as good as putting on muscle as it was in their youth.

Now on top of it, even if you're taking a microdose, it could kind of keep you in that spot a little bit longer, push you a little bit more in that direction where the biggest thing is not to completely toss it out, it could be working with your practitioner or just being aware that, hey, is it time to cycle off or double down on your routine? First of all, is that correct? And are there any other strategies that you would share with people to help them out of this funk and make sure that the, the microdosing, if they so choose to go down that path, is not taking them so far down that

it's so much harder to get out of, you know, these tough times? Well, yeah, because it started with me losing my butt. So I lost my metabolic engine. I lost my muscle. And that was a process of stress and microdosing. I don't blame the microdose, but it plays on your dopamine receptors. So, you know, I kind of just wasn't as motivated in general. And we don't want that. That's not a good way to live. That's not a way to, you know, it's motivation is hard to come by anyway. And so having, you know, that on top of it, that I think that starts it. I think what I'm getting, getting at is losing that muscle that I work so hard to build, even losing a small fraction of it. And I first lost it with COVID. I first lost my rear end with COVID. And I think a lot of us did.

I think a lot of us came out of COVID. We also lose our rear ends in middle age. It's a very common phenomenon that happens to middle age women where we're like, we used to have a great butt and now we got a flat pancake. What happened? Well, middle age happened. And so we've got a lot of factors that we're up against already. And I don't think that going on what a lot of people are calling a micro dose, which is actually a standard dose and staying on it indefinitely is the best idea. If you look in the mirror, you know, you can see the bones in your butt. There's a problem there. And weirdly on top of that, there's become this obsession in the world of middle age strength training, women, middle age women's strength training, where they're obsessed with their arms. So they all

have these incredible shoulders and arms. And I watched them at the gym and they spent hours working on their arms just on these repeat movements with these tiny little dumbbells. But they spend no time actually working on the muscles that matter the most as we age, which is your lower body, your glutes and your thighs and your hamstrings. Those are what are going to carry you through. Those are your metabolic engine. And those are what are going to protect you when you get older in case you are headed towards a fall or keeping that type 2 fiber muscle mass healthy so that you don't fall. And so I'm just seeing this whole thing play out. And I feel like I open Pandora's box, truly. I feel like I started something. People decided.

their own definition of it, and now we're here. And we've got a bunch of middle-aged women who are emaciated and they're claiming to microdose. And I'm like, oh, no, we've got to clear this up. Yeah, well, with a lot of good things in life, there's always the parts that have the nuance that have to be navigated and largely, you know, I think there's so much more benefit that's come, but there has to be this conversation of how do we correct? How do we set a new standard, especially for young women and men and just young people in general of like, hey, what does it actually mean to be truly healthy? Right? Because a lot of us didn't necessarily grow up with that example and standard. So there's some course correction that has to be done,

but hey, that's why we have you on the podcast today. You know, it was interesting when we were talking about today's episode and we were making a list of a few things we wanted to cover. We're both talking about this microdosing phenomenon. We're also acknowledging and having this conversation for people who might be listening that are on, you know, a full dose, maybe not realizing it or they do realizing it. They're dealing with side effects or maybe have family members dealing with side effects. There's the people that are not on anything, right? I'm not on any of these. I do take some peptides with my practitioner. I use BBC. I've been, I tried Tessimorland for a little while when I was in a more like fat loss sort of place focusing on that

and had some good experiences with it. But just right now, I'm not on anything else besides BBC. So there are people that are also curious about these things. So one of the things that you wrote down that I thought would be really interesting to cover is the blood work that you look at and recommend to people before you even considering thinking about prescribing a GLP1, even if it's at the microdose level. So what labs do you look at before you'll ever prescribe one of these things? Well, I want to clarify, I don't actually think it's critical that people run blood work to make sure that a GLP1 is going to be safe for them, unless they have, you know, some concerns about kidney function. But even then, these things seem to, these peptides seem to be correcting kidney function

pretty darn well. But the way that I practice, I want to see their full health picture. I want a comprehensive look at things because we need a gauge to start with. And we need a path and a journey and we need to see how they're progressing and how things are going. We don't want to go backwards because I do start to see nutritional deficiencies crop up. For instance, ferretin will start to creep down ever so much with the use of GLP1s, usually on more of a standard dosing protocol. But, you know, we don't want to put anybody into further malnourishment. So the basics would be, you know, comprehensive metabolic profile. We're looking at kidney and liver disease. That comes standard on everybody's labs when they get their labs run, even through their

regular doctors. I want to look at fasting insulin. I want to look at hemoglobin A1C, which is a three-month marker of how sugared up your red blood cells are. I want to look at. at C-reactive protein to have a look at their inflammation, their vitamin D status, their ferretin, again, because I want to make sure that those things are not trending downward. When I run that comprehensive metabolic profile, it will tell me what their serum protein is, so I can at least track that to make sure that's not trending down. And, you know, I mean, just your basic kind of comprehensive functional medicine profile, there might be a few little differences in there depending on the person.

I might run a GI panel. I think that the data is pretty solid. And if you think about this mechanistically, GLP1's cause stagnation of your digestion overall, even on a microdose I've seen this. And folks coming in, maybe unbeknownst to them with SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, it can exacerbate that. It can potentially induce that. And we don't have good causative studies on this, but they have looked at folks, a couple

different studies have looked at folks who are on a GOP1 and then looked at their rates of sebo. And there's pretty high correlation there. And so I don't want to make SIBO worse because the interesting thing about SIBO is that CBO is a bacterial overgrowth because your gut is stalled out and you end up with bacteria in there that are secreting lipopolysaccharides. And ironically, lipopolysaccharides at high levels will cause metabolic dysfunction, type 2 diabetes and obesity.

They drive those conditions. And so the irony of taking even higher doses of GLP1s, and my real concern with people on the very high doses is that they are potentially creating this loop that is not conducive to them winning because they may be driving gut dysfunction further in, literally seeding their gut harder and that stagnation. The root behind SIBO is that you lose that motor complex of peristolsis where when you eat something, your gut takes little muscular contractions all the way down until it comes out your anus. And that stalls out with SIBO. It stalls out with GLP-1s. And so the irony is they might be actually upregulating the lipopolysaccharide,

which is making the obesity and the type 2 diabetes worse, not to get too nerdy on you. But like, that's a big one. So test the gut first, I think is important. And I would say that's it, you know, I mean, obviously we run hormones because I would, I may do it concurrently, but I really want hormones dialed in, especially if somebody's at that point where they're in perimenopause or menopause. Like, I am a firm believer they need some hormones if they can tolerate them or if it's not a contraindication. And so making sure all that's dialed in. And then the GLP1 is like a

sprinkle on top. It's not the main driver. It's not the, it's not the main thing we're leading with. We're making sure lifestyle, hormones and metabolic health are dialed in or at least emphasized. And then if we're using the GLP1 concurrently, we're still working on all those other things. No, that's super important. And all the more reason to tell people like working with an informed provider, in standard medicine, let's say somebody's working with the endocrinologist who's prescribing, there's still a lot of these doctors that are out there, they're becoming a little bit more aware, the ones that are on social media, the ones that are more open-minded, there's a lot of doctors that are out there that are like, big pharma can do no wrong. So if it's not in the standard

sort of pill or the standard sort of pen and the fractional dosing that people can get, you know, with these, you know, pens that are there, which I believe is, you know, you can't get microdosing through the standard pens that are out there. Is that correct? Well, so Zepbound is produced by Lily Lily and they came out in 2024 with the vial form so you can get Zep bound in a vial form. And I've actually been converting patients over to that because they're finding better results with that than they did compounded. And they do have the pen that's available in Europe now. Again, I have no affiliation with them. They have a click pen that you can dial up or down.

And that's not the standard pen. This would be a cash pay through Lilly Direct, but they do have a click pen. So we got the pen that we can dial up or down and we got the vials, which I think is great. It's a great addition to have, and they have reasonable cash pay prices. And so, you know, and for some people that I work with, they really want that. They don't want compounded. They're concerned about compounded. They just vehemently want, they want the FDA-approved version, and that's fine.

And we now have access to something that they can microdose with that. Eli Direct, which was something they came out with, especially with all this pressure of, like, costs of these drugs, especially when people are going cash pay and they're, you know, They're not being prescribed by it through their regular providers. So, Eli Lilly Direct, they do have the ability to get in the range where you're talking about, hey, this is the equivalent of the appropriate fractional dose that somebody might start off with if they're looking through the world through your framework. Our skin ages for so many reasons.

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This mask is incredibly easy to use, and it's incredibly easy to incorporate in your routine, and that's what matters. You put the mask on, let it do its thing, and you go about your day. For me and my wife, how we use it is we use it while catching up with the family and winding down at night, reading a book, or just chatting with each other while we stretch and get ready for bed. And when it comes to healthy aging, I'm a big believer that the things you do consistently matter the most. And this red light mask is super convenient, which means you're going to more likely than not use it on a regular basis. If you've been curious about adding in red light therapy into your routine, Boncharge is giving my community 15% off right now. That's boncharge.com slash Drew to give your staff.

the recovery support it's been missing. Again, that's bond charge, B-O-N-C-H-A-R-G-E.com slash D-H-R-U to give your skin the recovery and support it's been missing. Yes, and I think a lot of doctors are getting keen to this. I've seen a lot of doctors that are very traditionally alopathically minded and I can just tell by their content. And they are admitting to, they're like, yeah, we're microdosing or we could call it individualized dosing, right? We could call it personalized dosing, just something that's a little more appropriate for the person. And maybe it is an onboarding strategy. Maybe they have to start really low, but they might have to get up to more standard. I've seen that multiple times where people

came in. They did want weight loss. They did want a microdose. And I just had to tell them, like, that's fine. We can start you there, but you're very likely looking at a more standardized dosing progression. We have more variability. That's just smart medicine. Like doctors should be prescribing medication that patients can tolerate. That's the whole point of compounding in the first place, is so we can make medications that patients can tolerate at different dosages or with different substrates, whatever, not to get into what compounding is and isn't. But I've always used it to make medications more accessible to people when they couldn't tolerate what was out their brand name or standard. Yeah, that makes sense. So Zepbound through Lilly Direct, and obviously

people can get this in their insurance to, that's their triz appetite. And the lowest dose of that, can you remind us? And then generally, what have you seen? You know, I've had a few people do it, but I can't remember the pricing. Like, what do people pay when they go direct if they're doing cash pay? I think the way direct works is for the vial, you get the lowest dose that they offer is 2.5 milligrams. It's in a single dose file. It's not a multi-dose file.

It's not meant to be reused, although some doctors, like I said, are using it for microdosing purposes or for more personalized dosing. And I think the way it works that I have seen is that they charge you a certain amount, which is, I think it's, I want to say, like, $3 to $500 a month, depending. on where you're going through. And it might be a little bit more as you get up into the higher doses, but you have to agree, it's direct through them. So you're not going through a doctor. They can send it to, I think, a Walgreens or different places, different pharmacies that are local to you. So you don't have to accept it in the mail always. Anyway, you have to agree to receive that, I think,

minimum every 45 days. So that said, I do have patients who have four or five vials sitting in their refrigerator now because they are on a lower dose than what they're not using it up in time and you're not supposed to repeatedly puncture a vial that's a single use only you're just saying what you've seen out there uh dr teen is not your doctor and as i always know my followers i'm not a doctor i'm one of those indians that didn't go to med at school so don't listen anything i have to say either i just get to ask questions i think it's nice for folks who want to try a different approach and who want to use a brand name. And I, again, I think that, you know, it does seem to be a little bit more potent as what I found. I've had several people who were on it for weight loss who were stalling

out on the compounded and they went to the brand name and they did really well. So who knows, but I do think they offer those and you can access them. It's a prescription, of course, but there's just more options out there now than there were last time we talked. I'm just like undereducated on this part. Like you're saying you I direct, you don't even need your own provider, or a doctor, you know, to write your prescription, you can just go to them? No, you do need a prescription. So your doctor would submit a prescription to them, but there's no, they're acting as a pharmacy.

Yeah, you're acting as a pharmacy, sending it directly to you. Yeah. So you still have a prescription. You still need somebody to be on board. And in general, it's probably a good idea for you to have a provider that's on board. And it's just aware of what you're doing and going down the line, find somebody open-minded. And then if you run into any snafrews, you can always ask them or if they need to check to make sure that it's going in the right direction or suggest some changes on dosing,

you know, they could be there as well too. So it's important to have somebody. And, you know, a lot of the functional medicine providers, because a lot of them listen to your, you know, content, a lot of them have gotten on board and they've seen really incredible stories about different people that have been facing all sorts of different things and how these drugs have been, have been powerful for them. Yeah, I've got, I've got colleagues using them in tiny doses, is like 150th of a dose, tiny. And they're using them for really severely ill patients who have maybe MCAS or lime or mold and their immune systems are so hyperactive that they're totally unable to get these

patients even started on a treatment protocol of any type. Like they can't tolerate supplements. Everything makes them flare. And I have friends like this that I finally convince, like, please go try a microdose of a GOPB1. Just please humor me for a minute and try it. And it's been life changing. They're able to get off.

of like chronic antihistamines, and I'm not promising anything. I'm just telling you what I've seen. They're able to tolerate the world better. They're able to actually get to work with their practitioner to actually start to figure out what's causing the MCAS and start to move some things. I mean, you try to detox these patients or move the needle at all, put them in a sauna even, and they will flare. And so we now have something that is seemingly stabilizing their immune system a little bit better. So I think that's very exciting. And that was my original intention when I came out with his microdosing strategy was like, we know, we know. now have a tool, I believe, at the time was my hypothesis that would impact a bunch of different

systems in the body that might have a beneficial impact. It's the frosting on the top. It's a sweetener of the whole thing. It's not the, we're not doing monotherapy. We're not crank in a dose to drive pathways hard. We're using it as adjunctive amongst a bunch of other tools. And so I think that's very exciting. You know, I think there's some people that are listening today because they still see clips that are out there. And I'll talk about even some of my own family members. there's people that are like, hey, listen, I got the memo on strength training. I'm working with the trainer. I'm working on, you know, progressive overload, these compound lifts.

You know, I'm focusing on the glutes. I'm making sure that my metabolic health is good. You know, I'm in that 40 plus, you know, age range. I can think of in particular a few female family members that would identify by this. Sure, could I dial in a little bit more with my nutrition and, you know, be a little bit more mindful about how things are? But in general, I eat very clean. And they're also, you know, archetypally, they're the ones that are taking care of their families. They're taking care of parents.

They're the world to so many people that are out there. There's a lot on their plate in general. And they've been a GLP1 curious. And they've been interested in this conversation. But there's still a little bit of this fear of I'm not sure. I'm not sure how to do it. And I'm not sure, you know, if I should do it. And maybe even a little bit of like, you know,

like still a little bit a tiny bit, even though maybe it's very small. You know, is it a little bit, is it cheating or I should be able to do it or that? What would you want to say to this individual who's listening that, you know, that's their archetype? I use every tool available to me that I can get my hands on. And this is not an easy phase of life. And it is hitting me, you know, I was cruising on through doing just fine until the stress got too much. And you mentioned all the things that I went through. I also moved my entire household in the middle of it, which was a lot.

And it just hit me, you know, and I was not bouncing back the way that I had in the past. And I think a lot of women can relate to that. They hit a certain age and they're like, the things I used to do to fix, you know, to write the ship are not working anymore. And it becomes really arduous. And in that process, you end up driving cortisol like crazy. And that cortisol keeps you packing on adipose tissue around your midsection, which drives the whole thing. You know, it's like this vicious a cycle. And so there's also women in that cohort who don't want to take HRT and they just want a raw dog menopause. And that's fine. I'm not saying people need to take these things or even attempt. And I'm not saying they're right for everyone or that they fix everything. I will add when you've

been on a GOP1 for a long time, your body acclimates very quickly. It's called tachyphylaxis and it's this concept where your body just completely acclimates to whatever dose you're on and you need to take more. So a tiny little microdose doesn't move the needle as much for me as it used. to. And I'm okay with that. I can still stay quite low and have success. But if I wanted to have weight loss, I would have to go into more standardized dosing. And so I think it depends on what you want to use it for, what you are trying to get some help on and making sure you, like you have said, multiple times, you have to work with somebody who is knowledgeable. I really think going on your own on this and trying to get it off the internet is not a good idea for a lot of reasons that we don't

need to get into, but I just don't think that's a great idea overall. You need somebody monitoring you. you don't win any prizes for raw dog and menopause. Like there's no big, you know, there's no big ribbon at the end of that. You don't get a, you don't get a little, you know, trink it on your, on your shelf to go with your gymnastics trophies. So I use anything and everything that I have access to. I might throw a little metformin in there. I might throw some low dose naltrexone in there. I mean, I have a prescription pad and I am not afraid to use it. And so these things can be used artfully and skillfully. I know not all. doctors do that. I'm sorry to all the people who don't know how to find a doctor. I tried to create a

course for doctors. And, you know, I still, what I found with that was a lot of people who've gone through that program, a lot of practitioners were still advertising microdosing as the standard low dose. And I get it. I think maybe these doctors have to do that so they don't get themselves on the hot list with big pharma. Who knows? But I think that this is a tough time and there's a lot happening. And if you don't nip it in the bud and be highly preventive now, while you still have some semblance, of your metabolism working for you, it is going to get harder and harder and harder. And so I'm looking down the barrel of, you know, life thinking, man, if I just packed on 20 pounds now from stress, what happens the next stress round and the next stress round, right?

And so I'm a big fan of getting it off as fast as humanly possible so that my metabolic rate doesn't reset there. And so I just don't think you win any prizes for white knuckling it. And you know what? How is it cheating if you're hitting the gym, you're eating, you're eating. nutritionally dense food, you're doing all the things. If you're just sitting on your ass, then yeah, it's cheating. But if you're actually crushing it in the gym and you're working really hard, like, give yourself a leg up. I'm, you know, I'm not here to convince anyone, but I'm a big

fan of, and I've always been this way with my middle age patients in general. I'm like, here's what I got. What do you want? Like, how can we best dial this in? And of course, we do what's appropriate. We're not just throwing everything at every one. But there's a way to do this with peptides and with HRT and there's an artful way to do it and really optimize people's health and get them feeling a lot better. This is an interesting age. I just want to add as a woman, you, you become invisible. You go from being a great beauty and a lot of people admiring your beauty to suddenly walking through an airport or a mall or a store and you're invisible. And I don't think people talk about that enough and how that feels. And it's happened to me and I'm okay with it. Like I'm comfortable

in my skin and I know where I am. But it's something that happens. And then when you add, you know, 40 pounds on top of that and all your joints hurt and you have brain fog and you're starting to lose your edge and maybe you're a you know maybe you're a boss babe like me and you're running a lot of businesses it really impacts your self-confidence and you start to get quiet and you start to remove yourself from the world and that is what I'm fighting against it's not take a gLP 1 so you can lose a few pounds humans and whales orcas are the only two species that have menopause that go through menopause. Other mammals do not go through menopause. We have a life expectancy after our supposed role of child procreation is over. And there's this grandma hypothesis that

we're supposed to be here because our wisdom is so needed to keep the species alive. And when we see a matriarch fall in a pot of orcas, the entire pod usually falls apart. And we start to see a lot of loss in that pot of life. A lot of the whales will start to die off. And I'm like an orca fanatic. So it makes sense to me that keeping a menopausal woman at her best at the top of her game, that's, that is really why I came out boldly speaking on this topic. Because I was like, hey, ladies, I got something for you. That'll help. I believe in that hypothesis, for sure, the wisdom of the grandmother, the idea that, you know, to take it even a little bit further for those of listening, we've discussed this with different individuals in the podcast, is that if women could reproduce all the way till their

full lifespan as human beings. You know, they'd be in their 70s, 80s, 90s, and theoretically, would they become a threat to their own daughters because they are still in the game of reproducing as well? And it's like the wisdom, the divine knowing of the feminine, you know, Mother Earth that's in every single woman that's out there is like, no, I'm not going to focus on, you know, my own procreation. I'm going to focus on the other things that I'm meant to bring

the tribe, de-escalation, how do we create, you know, harmony through peace, conflict resolution, like bringing people to, and the other things that come with that wisdom. And I'm a firm believer that that's why we as a species have made it as far as we have is because the wisdom of the grandmothers that ushered us through. And also, as we see that being removed and, you know, that not being in there, and not that everybody has to have a great relationship with their, their mom and their grandparent. I wish that to be the case. I have a great one with, you know, I had a great relationship with my grandparents, had a great relationship, have a great relationship with my mom. And I understand. But even the communal aspect of that not

being there, you know, I think we're suffering as a society from that, that aspect missing from within. hugely. And we take care of everyone, whether people realize it or not. You know, when you lose the grandma, you watch the whole family just sort of falter pretty hard in most cases that I've seen or you lose the mom. Like we take care of everybody. Above us, below us, we take care of everybody. And so I'm just trying to pull out all the tools that I got in my tool belt, make sure I can keep these ladies going.

And I've had so many, I mean, thousands of women have reached out to me and said, your work has changed my life. You saved my life. Can you share a couple of those stories here? You know, anything, any couple that come to mind of anything, you know, an archetype or story, you know, somebody that, you know, their situation, you know, even just one. I think that would be really nice to hear. Oh, gosh, so many women, usually in my age cohort, so I'm 52, and usually my age or older,

maybe younger, but women who were trapped in their bodies and they didn't have any control over it. So they were stuck in a place of, and I'm talking women using like real standard doses too, to really move the needle on weight loss, just getting their lives back. Younger women being able to actually play with their kids and go do things with their families again. older women who maybe went through cancer. And after that and the treatment that is involved with that and the estrogen deprivation

involved with that because maybe these were estrogen positive cancers. And they were told, you know, you got to take the tamoxifen and all that comes with that. And they packed on 30, 40, 50 pounds after that. And they just, they lost themselves in it, right? They didn't recognize themselves in the mirror anymore. They didn't want to go outside. They didn't want to do anything at all with their families.

And now they're back. They're back in the game. They feel good. They're traveling. They're having intimacy with their husband. again and they're back. So I just think there's so many applications here. For me, it was truly a real fear of losing my cognition. My brain was slipping and I didn't know what was happening. And so for me, it really helps with that. And I, like I said, I'm taking care of everybody. I can't go down.

I don't get that luxury of taking a break. So, and I think a lot of women are there, especially in my age. We've got teenage or young adult children. Maybe we have grandchildren. I don't have grandchildren. I don't have grandchildren yet. I've not been blessed with them, but I hope they're coming. We have, our parents are still alive and are ailing. We're holding the ship together. And so when women share with me that it gave them that back, you know, they already had enough, this is a huge one, enough decrease in pain and inflammation that they were able to go to the gym. That's huge. And I don't care what weight you are. You could be a skinny mini, you could be a gal with 50 extra pounds. If you're inflamed and you hurt, you don't want to move. And so being able to have that as part of it is

such a big deal. And, you know, I did mention that people tend to stop moving on GOP ones, but that was looking at studies. I think that's a dosage issue. I think that people taking a little bit too much, or they're starting to lose muscle and they're sort of their metabolic system is starting to downregulate and they're just starting to rest a little bit more. But for a lot of people, especially initially, you might feel yourself kick on and you're like, I'm ready to go. A lot of people start GLP ones and they're like, I feel like going to the gym for once. I feel like I've seen that countless times where people were just no way, were they going to go to the gym. There was no way. And now all of a sudden, they're like, all right, doc. And it usually

happens around the three month mark. They're like, all right, doc, I'm ready to go. Like, what's the plan? And so I just think we have to meet everyone where they're at and know that this doesn't work for everyone, but when it does, and in some cases, it's miraculous, that it can really move the needle for people in the right direction. And it causes some neuroplasticity changes in the brain. And so it opens this window of opportunity for you to reestablish your pattern. So maybe you've been stuck. I think a lot of middle-aged women can relate to that, just being stuck. If you could just get out of that, if you could reset the breaker, there's this moment of opportunity where you're like, heck, yes, let's go. And I think GLP-1s in many cases can do that for people. And that is such a

window of opportunity if you take it. Yeah, that's powerful. One of the story I'll add into the mix that occurred to me as you were sharing is that I have a dear friend and she experienced some very tragic loss in her life. One of her kids actually passed away very young. very unexpected. And on top of that, you know, that classic architect that you're mentioning, she's the mother, she's the grandmother, she's doing everything for the family that's there, trying to be, you know, the positive one, keeping everything together. And then also had a history since she was a young woman of really bad migrants that had periods of time that they were better. But then as she got older, they started to get worse. And she had a discussion with her doctor.

and yeah, she had a little bit of extra weight that was there that she didn't want. But her doctor was familiar with some of the case reports, and I don't know what studies are there, but case reports of people seeing some improvement in especially there's different types of migraines. We've had some experts on this podcast talk about it. But in particular, there's this group of migraines that do seem to be very impacted by your metabolic health. And also metabolic triggers. It could be she never was diagnosed for this. but it could be a histamine issue, an MCAS issue, could be, she always knew, right?

She reacted to sulfates, red wine, other things. So it felt like there might be some histamine stuff that's going on, some MCAS stuff going on. But she was willing to try it. She tried it. And then outside of just completely eating foods that she knows are massive triggers for migraines for her. And she's very mindful about those ingredients. Her migraines went away completely. And that gave her life back.

She used to have at least five. to eight times a month, these debilitating migraines that sometimes are so bad that she couldn't even work and her profession was taking care of, you know, kids. And that would really throw a wrench in the system and be very challenging for for her. So to hear a story like that, you just feel so excited for somebody. But I also think about my mom. You know, my mom has a decent amount of visceral fat. She's giving me permission to talk about in the podcast. She has a little bit of extra belly fat. She has an extra, you know, a few pounds that are there. There was a study that just came out like a couple weeks ago, and I believe it was in the

Journal of Cardiology. But anyways, the title was Risk Replacification Beyond BMI by Weight Circumference and Waste to Hip Racial, basically saying that having belly fat is actually more of a cardiovascular risk than just being overall overweight, and people don't understand that. And they need to pay attention to it. And because of the South Asian diet, a lot of South Asians eat a very high carb diet, I think It's one of the highest carb diets in the world that's out there. And my mom has gotten so much better and cleaned up a lot of our diet, but there's still

this belly fat that's there. And I'm thinking, you know, still heart disease is the number one killer of women. A lot of women don't realize that. It's the number one killer of men. It's the number one killer of women. And I'm worried about this cancer reemergence that would potentially come. And so I've been having very active conversations with my mom of like, hey, this could be something to talk about what your doctor about.

And we could start really low and just see how you feel. And if you don't want to do it, great. It's your own body. It's your own health. I'm not pushing in that direction. But I'm just presenting you the research. And I am very lucky. My mom listens to this podcast. Shout out to my mom. And she is very open-minded. And she's now starting to have these discussions that are there. But this would be somebody that I previously would have thought, no, my mom doesn't need it. She's good. She's making a lot of lifestyle changes. But I'm excited for her to at least consider it whatever she decides and see if there's a potential pathway for, you know, these things being helpful for her journey. Well, the data coming out,

As of late, and I, you know, I talked about it a little bit in 2024. I was on Diary of a CEO and I mentioned some of those early studies on cancer and GLP-1s. And I soon after lost my Instagram, so I'm not sure if there was a correlation there. But there is some newer data that has come out. And it's in the colon cancer, breast cancer, pancreatic in the world. And these are not causative. These are correlative, meaning these people were on GLP-1s and they're seeing a connection. They're not saying that the GLP-1 is curing cancer.

but the folks on the GLP1 significant drop in recurrence, in mortality. I mean, it's profound. And so I'm actually hearing from people in my following who are being diagnosed with breast cancer and their oncologists are putting them on a GLP 1, on a tiny dose of GLP1. I'm not sure of the dosages as a almost preventative strategy. So it's happening. It's happening. It's gotten so far that oncologists and oncologists by nature are very,

very cautious to add anything into a traditional chemotherapy or cancer treatment protocol. Like they don't even like you taking supplements and things. And so depending on how holistic they are, of course, and some are more knowledgeable than others when it comes to more of an integrative approach. But yeah, I mean, that's huge. So I don't know if you looked at any of the data on that. I have multiple studies I can share with you, Drew, but it's the cancer connection in GLP1. And what is the reason? Is it the metabolic health improvement? Probably hugely. And, you know, waist circumference is something I've been beating the drum on for a long time and took a lot of heat for it. I get called fatophobic every time I talk about it.

And I'm like, this literally is everything. Like we need to keep our, for women, the waist circumference that you want to stay below is half your height. That's the magic red flag and whatever measurement system you choose to use. Or if you look at the international guidelines for metabolic disease, it's 35 inches. And that would be about two finger breaths or an inch above your belly button is where you're going to want to measure your weight. it would be the smallest part of your waist. As a woman, with men, it's at the belly button, and you don't want to go above 40. But I say the cutoff is half your height in centimeter or inches.

And it's a huge deal. But I think the other part is, JLP1 sit on your immune cells and they have a direct impact. That's why they're so helpful with MCAS and histamine, because they're directly impacting immune cells. And so I think there's a lot of factors we don't know yet, but I'm really excited to see. I feel like the cancer community is actually open to this one, and they're listening. And this is huge. You don't have any direct knowledge, but you're like, I think Big Pharma was involved in the suppression of my account,

that taking away your account got banned at some point in time. But the crazy thing is, if I'm Big Pharma and I'm listening, I'm an executive, I'm the CEO of one of these companies or on the PR team, right? Because they got to keep their distance. I'm like, we need to be boosting up Tina's account because he's the one that's out there that's convincing all these people to be open-minded to, you know, the different tools and things that are out there. and, you know, pharma is always going to want to provide people, you know, with different, you know, resources if they can get it, you know, get a chance to make money. So they're coming out with all these, you know, standardized things and the ability to tweak dosages and stuff. So that's the crazy part to me because if I was one of them, I'd be like, man, we're going to throw some ad dollars to put our account out there, get around the Today Show. Well, it was the same two-week period that the vials were released.

So. Okay. So we don't like to be talking about you think compounding and getting it from elsewhere. Okay. Because that was the only way to do what I was proposing at the time. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was very careful online and I was very careful about what I was saying. And I was trying to be a very prudent position.

I got accused a lot. After your podcast and Mark Hyman's in those earlier episodes, I got accused a lot of datekeeping. Everybody was like, what's the dose? And as our conversation is shown, I don't know until I have the person in front of me. I don't know what the dose is. It's different for everyone. And it depends on a lot of different facts.

In fact, we have now have finally, I mean, thank God, I was, I was like certain of this before, but now we have proof. We have studies in mice and a little bit in humans showing differences in genetics and how people respond to GOP ones. So receptor density and nausea and vomiting impacts and even weight loss, how it's impacting them. And so we're starting to see them study that piece of like, do people have different genetic responses to GLP ones?

And so, yes, they do. that's important that we acknowledge that. And so I was proposing something that Big Pharma could not do at the time. And I think I was in their line of fire. So it's okay. I try to stay out of their way. Like I said, I have a prescription patent. I'm not afraid to use it. We doctors don't get like checks showing up in our mailbox from Big Pharma like everybody thinks. And certainly I don't have the right credentials. I'm, you know, I'm not the right messenger for the message. And now I can tell by the content online and who doesn't get censored and who doesn't get their accounts taken down. because some of them are saying some pretty crazy stuff,

they are the right messenger. They're approved of. So I'll just be the little renegade over here, as usual. Well, you know, continuing down this conversation, I think people are nodding their heads. And there's some people saying, yeah, Drew, yeah, Dr. Tina. But I hear all this. But have you seen a clip of a Harvard train doctor on Joe Rogan

talking about how blindness has doubled under these drugs. We're writing about this in this week's newsletter, so we have a whole breakdown. If you want to hear about it, you can sign up there. But Dr. Tina's here to go to the breakdown live here on the podcast. So what's going on? Is blindness doubling because of GLP 1 drug? No, it's not. Much like the COVID vaccine, they went off of relative risk, which is a big number and

looks really scary or really favorable in the case of however you want to spin it. Absolute risk is a different number, and it's much tinier. in the case then and in the case of this. So. And when you say this, let's just define that. What are we talking about? This is a rare type of blindness. N-A-I-O-N, non-arteritic, ischemic. Optic neuropathy.

Yes. That's another tongue twister. So here's what I suspect, and I've heard others back this up. I did a podcast about this many years ago. I think it was in 24 when this first, the signal was first there. I'm not saying ignore the signal. I'm not saying it's not happening, but it's incredibly rare. it is way more, it happens way more often in diabetics.

And so this is a group that's using these medications, obviously, much more frequently. And so a new study just came out. Maybe you're sharing it in your newsletter. It just came out like a month ago, two months ago. And it basically said, yeah, there's a signal, but it's such a, it's such a rare occurrence. And they weren't really screening, you know, they weren't differentiating. Did these people have, like how bad was their type two diabetes? was really the question. I think what's happening is when you drop somebody's blood sugar very quickly,

if they're a diabetic and they've been a diabetic for a long time, their body will be accustomed to living with that kind of blood sugar level. I'm talking 300s. People are walking around with blood sugars in the 300s or more even sometimes. And their body has acclimated to that. When you suddenly drop the blood pressure quickly, and again, this is my argument for going slow and low, you could potentially have some vasoconstriction. And so, you know, those vessels in the retina are tiny, tiny. And I'm not saying this, we don't know if this is what's happening, but this is the speculation that I've heard others say as well. And I was glad to hear it because I'm like, this is what I think is happening. I think there, and there has been worsening of diabetic retinopathy

too when people go on the GLP ones. You think it would improve. But I think it's this mechanism. I think it's where their vascular is kind of freaking out because the blood sugar dropped too quickly. Yeah. And they end up with an eye stroke. Yeah, you already have, you have this rare eye condition, which happens, this blindness, sudden blindness, because of an immediate drop in blood flow to the eyes. But it's already for even people who get it who aren't on GLP1 drugs, it's already something that people are at high risk for, just as you were mentioning, if they have really bad diabetes, obesity. really bad blood pressure for years, or even sometimes, like, if people have really bad high cholesterol, not usually in itself, but it would be high cholesterol and blood pressure

and, you know, they're overweight, you know, that sort of thing. And these individuals have a higher likelihood, as you were mentioning, of already being on a GLP1 drug in general. So are you finding exactly this mechanism that there's this sudden drop in blood sugar? Nobody knows that's there, but the amount of people that are already getting this rare, you know, neuropathy, this nion, or however you pronounce it, is really low. And yes, there was some doubling and there was a new study that was there, but that's not the absolute risk. It's the relative risk, and it's already a rare thing. So a lot of people, there was a Dr. Brad Stanfield who's been on this podcast before, and there's a lot of things he says that I think are really interesting.

He made a video saying, you know, making your criticism on this. If there was all this blindness, You know, so many millions of people are on GLP1 drugs, not just in America, like worldwide. We would see a lot more of this out there. Every one of us would know somebody that was like, oh, yeah, my neighbor was on GLP1 drug. They just went blind all of a sudden. They were driving the school and they just went blind, you know, dropping their kids off at school. We would be seeing a lot of this stuff, and we're just not seeing that out there on top of the 10 years plus data that you talked about, that these drugs have been around for a long time in diabetic populations that are there.

we would have seen a lot more of this blindness. It's correlative. It's not causative. They looked at a bunch of health records and they saw a signal. And I think it's important that we pay attention to these signals. A recent signal that came out was tendon rupture in certain tendons, Achilles, Super Spanatus. And of course, that went all over the internet too. And everybody was like, oh my God, GLP ones are causing tendon rupture. No, they're not. And I will tell you as somebody who specialized in regenerative medicine, that is literally my wheelhouse. Musculoskeletal medicine is what I did for a long time. People with longstanding diabetes have terrible tendon health.

And if you couple that with the hypothyroidism that's usually going along with it, their tendons like to snap. And so it's very common when you take someone who, and I've had this happen to patients more than once that were very obese. We were working on weight loss. They were doing it with no gLP ones. We were just doing it the old school way. And they were making progress.

and my absolute first step is I don't ever try to get people to lose weight. I go for body recomp. So you're in the gym, crushing it in the gym as much as you can with a trainer. That's like step number one on a weight loss journey. That literally, even with the GLP1, that is step one. And they would get to a certain point. And very often we'd see a biceps tendon rupture or we'd see a super spinaidus tendon go or an Achilles.

And that's also very common in middle age. And so again, correlation, not causation. What is the patient cohort we're talking about? And what are their risk factors already? And I think the N-A-I-O-N thing is right in there with that. A lot of these issues, the pancreatitis, which actually the signal on that has been pretty disproven. The gut issues, everybody's screaming, gastroporesis, I think a lot of people just get sluggish

gut and distension and burping, and they call that gastropreasis. So there's, you know, 3,000 cases of gastropresis. If you go look at that actual lawsuit and the lawsuits that are happening, they have very few of those that are able to prove that they truly had gastropresis. And I'm not saying that people weren't suffering. But I think, you know, you can get Bezores, which are like little clusters of yuck that build up in your gut. There's all kinds of things that can happen when you start to get stagnant digestion.

And again, is the dose too high or are they going too fast? How's their overall health? How's their diet? How did they come into this treatment in the first place? How many decades of diabetes have they been rocking or obesity have they been dealing with? It all matters in the conversation. It's not the GLP one cause the thing. What about a couple of areas? While we have a little bit of time here and we're winding down,

I want to just kind of rapid fire through a few other areas that I know that audience would love to get your thoughts on it. What about testosterone? You know, especially with a lot of women thinking about HRT, some of them exploring or using testosterone, what have you seen about whether microdosing or people are on a little bit higher than microdosing dosages that are out there, standard dosage? What's the intersection with testosterone? Is it messing with testosterone? Is there any impact? I don't know about testosterone in particular. We have two really small studies looking at HRT, so that would be estrogen probably in those studies and progesterone and women, and they lost more weight. They had a more significant weight loss when they combined her appetite with HRT. I think HRT is important. I think testosterone is great. In men in particular, as they age, I think in women, yes, there's a place for it.

Absolutely. I've been a big fan of testosterone for a long time in women. I think it depends on the patient. I think it depends on how they tolerate these hormones. And I think GLP ones are really beautiful for kind of cleaning up the milieu before you come in with a H.RT regimen because oftentimes if people are very inflamed and dealing with a lot of adipose and maybe their lifestyle isn't dialed in, HRT can go down some questionable pathways and aromatization can happen. And so you start turning all your testosterone into estrogen and maybe it's turning into the form of estrogen that's pro-inflammatory. And so I think of all that stuff when I decide to start throwing hormones on board. And GLP-1s can be a nice way to sort of clean things up, get metabolic health more dialed in, and hopefully get things moving down more favorable pathways. Estrogens can go down unfavorable pathways, too, depending on your overall metabolic health and your lifestyle habits.

I think the triad, the really magic triad is muscle, GLP-1s, and HRT for men and women. I think it's such a middle age in particular. I think it's such a really wonderful triad. you would be shocked how many people are in GLP-1s. I'm sure you know, but you're in this space, but you'd be amazed how many people, even I see people who trash on them or used to trash on them are now on GLP-1s, and they've figured out a way to have them in their clinics, too.

So some of the same people who came at me early are now prescribing them. There's no muscle loss happening directly from the GLP-1, and I did a whole podcast episode about this, but I'll give you the summary. I hypothesized early on, and I asked everybody I could get my hands on early on. When they kept talking about lean mass, I'm like, well, muscle's only part of lean mass. This lean mass loss number, this 40% muscle loss, that was incorrect.

It was 40% lean mass loss, anywhere between 25 to 40% lean mass loss. Lean mass makes up everything that isn't fat and bone on DeXA. So that's all your soft tissues. It's also all the fat that's in your liver and in your muscles, because when people are metabolically compromised. They are marvelled. They get fatty liver infiltrates. They get fatty globules in their liver and very common. And they get fatty muscle marbling. So they get foie gras liver. They get prime rib legs. And I kept asking everyone, hey guys, like all my doctor friends, I'm like, do you think that gLP ones are just decreasing the fat in the liver and in the muscle, the marbling? And they're like,

we don't know. I said, I think that's part of the lean mass number looking so inflated. I think that's why everybody's like, oh my God. So I still, to this day, I just saw a very well-respected physician and say, you're going to lose 40% of your muscle on it. You are not going to lose 40% of your muscle. Your lean muscle mass makes up maybe 25, maybe the bit higher percentage of your lean mass. Does that make sense? So of that 40%, half of that might be muscle. So right there, we just cut it in half to 20%, and that is right on par with any weight loss. strategy. You're going to lose muscle when you lose weight, guys. If you lose any appreciable amount of weight, you're going to lose muscle unless you are actively busting your ass to protect it. So whether you get

bariatric surgery, whether you have a low calorie diet, whatever you do, caloric restriction, whatever you do to lose that weight, you're going to lose that percentage of muscle anyway unless you're actively fighting for it. So no, this number that keeps getting thrown around it. I see guys, I really respect and women. I see them on the internet and they're like, you're going to lose 25 to 40% of muscle on gop ones and i'm like i know you know better i know you guys know better so you ever read out to these folks and tell them like hey come on i know you know better and what do they say i chime in in the comments without trying to sound too snarky i'm just like this is incorrect and i try to give them the information but i i did a whole like hour long podcast on it because it makes me so crazy

because it's just strictly fear mongering that is pure fear mongering they're trying to scare you so that you listen to their content so that you click and then you follow or whatever it's it's just rage bait and it's wrong. And fortunately, I've had some people correct themselves and like invite me back on their podcast or whatever and we get to clarify it. But like, if you're an intelligent strength and conditioning coach or health coach or doctor or health influencer and you're going around stating those numbers, just know that lean mass is not all muscle. It is just muscle is a percentage of that lean mass. And those are the numbers you're seeing because they're running Dexa on these patients and the Dexa comes back as some high number and they're clumping it

all together. So hopefully that's my rant. I feel passionate about it. We have you here because you're passionate. That's why we want you here. Anytime you want to put up on the soapbox, please, read my guest. Any other myths that are out there or things that we need to sort of address here as we're winding down? Is there anything that you want to talk about with women's menstrual cycles? You know, we had that on the notes that was on the table. Anything worth mentioning that topic? I do think it changes the menstrual cycle and it's something that it's not talked about enough and we have a little bit of data coming out on that. But I do want to tell women that, yes, you can expect some changes. I've even heard of women who are postmenopausal have breakthrough

bleeding. So something is happening there. And I don't think they know the mechanisms completely. And I don't think they've got it all worked out. But something is happening there. So younger women will report that their cycles get all, and the listeners listening are probably nodding their head. their cycles will get all screwed up, even on a microdose for a few months. It tends to regulate out. And then, you know, if you're an older woman and you're having breakthrough bleeding, go get that checked. Go make sure that everything's okay.

But it usually tends to balance out too. There's something happening, though. I think these are playing directly. Maybe it's the hypothalamic, you know, pituitary ovarian axis. I don't know, but something is happening there directly. And I think it's worth noting because I've just seen enough of it. And on that note, I'll say the hair loss piece, I think is real, and I don't think it's just happening with, they call it telogenephluvium.

They're basically saying it's from the extreme fast weight loss. I don't think that's... Actually, I haven't heard a lot about this. So please, please educate me. So people up there are noticing that they're getting on GLP1 drugs that they're actively having hair loss. Like, what's going on? Well, I call it the GLP1 dreadshed because it is real.

And it's happening on microdoses. I'm seeing it on microdoses. And I'm hearing about it on microdoses. And what's happening is in the allopathic community and in the literature, they're saying, oh, it's telogenofluvium, which is just hair loss due to stress or due to a stressful event. And they're blaming it on the weight loss. And yes, when you lose weight quickly, you do tend to have hair loss. That's part of it.

The hair tends to regrow once you get past that stressor. So, you know, COVID was a good example. A lot of people had a lot of hair loss after getting infected and becoming ill. You can have it post flu. You can have it after a big stressor. Hair is biologically expensive to maintain, and so it'll fall out. But I'm seeing it on microdoses. And I cannot figure out the mechanism. I think it might be partially that AMPK situation I was talking about where maybe we're revving a pathway that is a little too catabolic.

But I also saw a little bit of, it wasn't really great data, but it was a small little study looking at GLP1's potentially upregulating the androgen response. Again, I think it plays on our hormones to some degree. I think there's an interaction. When women have PCOS and they have those high androgens, the high testosterone, et cetera, and they tend to have some of the characteristic side effects of that, hair losses comes with that. It's part of it. PCOS is driven from metabolic dysfunction. So in many cases, and many reporting of GL1's improving PCOS symptomology, that is true. I have also seen it aggravate PCOS, even at a microdose. And some of these women came in with such thin hair already that they couldn't tolerate, they couldn't get through it. It tends to pass,

but it is real. And I just had a colleague, she's a doctor, and she's on a pretty small dose, and she called me, and she's like, what is going on with my hair? I'm on this really low dose of trans appetite. My hair is falling out like crazy, and I'm like, it is real. I think it passes. It happened to me. All my hair re-grew, but I lost a ton of hair. So something's going on there, and I just want to make people aware of those two things. I think the menstrual cycle thing should be talked about. I know what's happening and I think the hair loss thing should be talked about because it is happening. You know, this goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning is that no drug intervention, no peptide intervention. Some people think like peptides are

not drugs, right? They put them in a different category. No supplement intervention is going to have everything has tradeoffs. Everything has a component that's there. And then when you get in prescription and you have these like pharmacological, you know, creations over there, they're designed to do something very specific in the body. There's going to be things that are there to manage. And it's more about, like I, in addition to wearing, you know, red light scalp masks from, you know, I wear one from Bon Charge, I doing like all these different things. I was experimenting with some peptide stuff for the hair. I also decided that I would take some monoxideo, oral monoxide. That has so much research that was on it. And there was a company that I was ordering from.

And I got put on a particular dose. And I probably should have been a little bit more on top of it, but I started having shortness of breath after about two weeks, which I know is common. And I talked to my brother-in-law, as a cardiologist, he said, listen, you know, I have a lot of patients that come in. They think that something's going on with their heart. And there are some very rare, rare, rare conditions where you can have some swelling of fluid around the heart. But a lot of times, they're just on too high of a dose. I think I was on five milligrams of oral monoxidol. And it worked. It was working very quickly. And it was helping to, you know, get that blood flow to the scalp region. And I got all. And I got all. And I was a

of it. And even as I got off of it, it was still like three weeks where I would occasionally, in certain situations, if I was holding my son and he was kind of pressed up against my chest in a particular way, if I was at the gym and I was doing a really hard workout, I was noticing, oh, man, I'm struggling a little bit to, like, you know, catch my breath in a way that I wasn't before. It took almost like four or five weeks for it to, like, really kind of go away. And now I'm going to try, like, 1.5 milligrams and see if that helps out. And I know some people, I talked to one of my doctors that's on my team. I said, hey, would you ever consider seeing this, trying this?

He'd say, you know, I'd rather have hair loss than going on that. And that's the individual decision that people get to make, right? Yep. And I was like, okay, cool. That's not okay for me. I think I do want to take something like stuff that's out there, but I get it. That's okay for you. And everybody has to make that judgment call.

It's all about informed consent. And obviously here you are both being a proponent of things like microdosing, but also telling people the truth that, hey, these things are real. You should know, you should expect. There might be other future stuff, and we can always weigh the pros and cons and decide if it's the right intervention for you. Since you just mentioned cardiovascular, I'll just quickly say this too. Another common thing I see, even with microdoses, is HRV plummeting, heart rate going up. That seems to be much more common. We're hearing about it more and it's being acknowledged with Reda-Trutide, the new triple agonist that is not yet available. But I have seen it with

micro doses of terseptide and semagluotide, and I've had a lot of people report it to me. And the other, because I have a lot of followers, so I get a lot of feedback. And then the other one that I experienced myself is insomnia, middle of the night waking, just can't go back to sleep, wide awake at 2 a.m. I think that, for me, that improves significantly when I got my estrogen dialed in without enough estrogen. I think that GLP-1s, even out of microdose, I think they magnify whatever hormonal deficiencies you have, whether that be thyroid, adrenal, your sex hormones.

So this is why I'm such a proponent at getting your hormones dialed in first before you even try the GLP one because or concurrently if you need to lose some weight and clean up the milieu. But those are all real and I've had a lot of people report them to me. And when I ask my other doctor friends, they seem somewhat unaware of it. And I'm like, how am I hearing about it? And maybe it's just because I have a huge following. And I, you know, people drop into my DMs and they tell me everything. So, but those are happening too. And I think they're worth noting.

And are they concerning? I think it has to be looked up on a case-by-case basis. And again, that's why we work with a physician. Absolutely. A physician who can also help you decide. And, you know, we'd love to get your thoughts on this. We kind of talked about it earlier, physician who might even help you decide if you want to cycle off, cycle on, and even with the right cadences. Anything you want to say about potentially, you know, people deciding about cycling on, cycling off, is it okay? You know, sometimes you have people who now have the benefit of this and they're worried, oh my gosh, the, you know, a little bit of that. belly fat that I lost that I don't feel like I was overweight, but it's a nice benefit. It wasn't the primary reason I was doing these things. I'm afraid that's going to come back or people feeling

like, oh, I don't know. I don't want to lose all other benefits that are there. What do you want to say about cycling on and cycling off? I think it depends on a case-by-case basis. I do think that it's good to give your receptors a break. That said, I'm not going to cycle off my estrogen. I've tried to do that and it's hell. So it's not going to happen. I try to keep people's dose as low as possible. I do like to give the body a break if we can so that the appetite returns. I kind of call it like I consider it a refeed. Maybe they are starting to have a little bit of the gluteal flatness happening, right? They're losing their booties.

I'm like, you need to eat. We need to get you off the GLP1 and you need to. So I really do think there's a time and place for it. And how long totally depends on the person and what we're using it for with them. If I start to see on Dexas scan, if I start to see their muscle percentage, their lean mass percentage, decline steadily and I start to see their ferretin go down on labs steadily. I'm like, we got to get you off and we got to get you back into a refeed, period. That said, when do you go back on? When do you know? I tell them before the wheels start falling off the car. And that means something different to

everyone. But when you're an autoimmune girl or pain is your main, you know, symptom, whatever it may be, whatever you're using the GLP 1 for, when it starts to become a little bit intolerable, not terribly intolerable, a little bit intolerable. I think it might be time to cycle back on. But I call GOP1's kind of the ultimate ground and find out peptide because they really do such wonderful things for so many people with their immune systems that suddenly they're like, I can eat gluten again. I can tolerate alcohol. I can do all these things I couldn't do before. Not really. It will come back and bite you in the butt. So a lot of people don't want to cycle off because they don't necessarily have control over the symptomology because they haven't really implemented the lifestyle pieces.

some have, but some have not. And most have not. And often when people start to lose weight as well, when they're using it for weight loss, they kind of kick the gym to the curb, but once the weight loss starts moving, once the dose gets right. So we don't want to just lean on the peptide heavily like a crutch. We want to use it as a tool and we want to make sure our receptors are clean and clear and that they can hear the signal.

So if we can go through more prolonged periods without it, that's great. But don't let the wheels fall off the car before you get back on it. And I know that's not a real strict answer and it's not an algorithmic way of thinking, but it is just a case-by-case basis. And my patients know what I'm talking about. They'll call me up and be like, I think I need to go back on. I'm like, yeah, all right, let's do it. Let's do another cycle.

We get everything under control and calm down. They usually use more often than not, they'll use that opportunity to really dial in their lifestyle stuff again if they've kind of fallen off the horse, you know, they'll get their shit back together. And we use it as a tool for that. So I think when you're using it at higher doses for weight loss, we're talking a whole different game. That's a whole different beast. I don't usually deal much in the world of weight loss. I'm much more over here in the world of optimization and people who are already pretty

metabolically sound. So I don't know if that's a great idea. I think if you're on it, you've lost an appreciable amount of weight, you're probably going to be on it. And there's a whole other conversation out there about like GLP1 resistance. I think GL1 resistance is a thing, just like we have insulin resistance. So I'm not keen on high doses for a lot of reasons, but that's not to say that it's not what you need. I'm not judging anyone. I just really find that if you can optimize your overall lifestyle and really dial it in, you can bring that GLP1 dose down as low as possible. You're going to be in a better position for the long run. Well said, Dr. Tina, this has been fantastic. So many gems, so many insights, so many resources that you've provided to folks that are there. Any final

Well, it's here before we wrap up and, you know, put our audience out there in the world to get a chance to explore some of these things for themselves if they so choose or not, right? I'm not on a GLP 1 right now, and I'm just doing my thing. I don't have the need, but I might be at some point in time of my life, you know, and these drugs are getting better and better and there might be some benefits that I discover that I want to explore. And again, everybody's got to make their own decision. We're not your doctors. I'm not a doctor. Tina is a doctor. She's not your doctor. That's there. about Big Pharma are also allegedly, we're just thinking, we're just, you know, pontificating as to who might have tried to shadow ban my friend over here. I have a community that I would love if people are women. It's called the menopause rebellion. And it's for middle-aged baddies who really just want to get done and like talk about all of this and implement it. We are implementing in there.

We're not just consuming information. And I know there's a lot of noise on the internet. So I'm distilling it all down in there. And you can find that on my website. is at Dr. Tina.com. I have a podcast, the Dr. Tina show, very original. It's like, we have very original names for a podcast. And, yeah, I'm just, I'm everywhere at Dr. Tina.

It's DRTYNA, if people want to check out my content. Tina, I so appreciate you how you show up in the world, how you use these big moments in life, the controversies to bring some signal in the noise. You did it with COVID. You did it with GLP. I'm just waiting for what other is going to hit the fan globally. that now all of a sudden, you know,

no more. We'll be out there talking about something. Hopefully we get some peace in your life and you can pass on the reins to somebody else. It won't be me, but it'll be somebody else that I'll step up out there. But really, seriously, a lot of gratitude when you were on the podcast the first time,

so many women in particular, I mean, most of my audience is probably like 75% of women, but also some male friends that I had that I'd send the episode two that were, you know, considering things. I look back now and a lot of, A lot of these people have known now, and that podcast is almost maybe two years ago, a year and a half ago, at least, you know, maybe two years. Time wise, especially when you just had a kid, I look at those individuals. And even if I haven't heard from them directly, they're giving people posted online of what they've done, you've changed a lot of lives.

And that episode meant a lot to people. So thank you for your work. Thank you for everything that you do. Thank you. Thank you for having me on again and giving me a chance to talk to your audience. And I'm glad it resonates. I'm just trying to, I'm, you know, I'm just out there teaching. And I want people, whatever, however it lands, this is just the truth as I know it.

And I hope it's helpful to people. So thanks for having done. Hi, everyone, Drew here. Two quick things. Number one, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. If you haven't already, subscribe, just hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast app. And by the way, if you love this episode, it would mean the world to me. And it's the number one thing that you can do to support this podcast is share it with a friend.

Share it with a friend who would benefit from listening. Number two, before I go, I just had to tell you about something that I've been working on that I'm super excited about. It's my weekly newsletter, and it's called Try This. Every Friday, yes, every Friday, 52 weeks a year, I send out an easy-to-digest protocol of simple steps that you or anyone you love can follow to optimize your own health. We cover everything from nutrition to mindset to metabolic health, sleep, community, longevity, and so much more. If you want to get on this email list, which is, by the way, free and get my weekly step-by-step protocols for whole body health and optimization, click the link in the show notes that's called Try This or just go to Drew Perot.com.

That's D-H-R-U-P-U-R-O-H-I-T dot com and click on the tab that says, try this.