Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Brad Klassen - The Importance of Biblical Hermeneutics

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Jonny Ardavanis is the Lead Pastor at Stonebridge Bible Church in Franklin, TN and the President of Dial In Ministries. He formerly served as the Dean of Campus Life at The Master’s University and as a Camp Director at Hume Lake Christian Camps. Jonny’s heart is to see people understand and love the Word of God and more so, to love the God of the Word. Jonny is married to Caity Jean and they have two precious daughters.In this episode, Jonny Ardavanis sits down with Dr. Brad Klassen, who serves as Professor of Bible Exposition and Director of ThM Studies at The Master’s Seminary and discuss the importance of Biblical Hermeneutics.Watch VideosVisit the Website Pre-order Consider the LiliesFollow on InstagramFollow on Twitter

Hey folks, my name is Johnny Artavanis and this is Dial In. Many of you have sent in positive feedback about the series that I just finished with my friend Kosti Hinn on the person and work of the Holy Spirit. If you haven't already listened to that series, we covered five weeks of different topics and themes and questions regarding the Holy Spirit. You can go back and listen to that full series or watch it on our YouTube channel. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Brad Claussen. He is a professor at the Master's Seminary, and I ask him about biblical hermeneutics. Now, you may be unfamiliar with that term, but I hope by the end of this episode, you're going to understand why hermeneutics are so important,

whether or not you're a pastor or just a Christian seeking to grow in their understanding of God's word and ultimately their love for Jesus Christ. Well, with that in mind, let's dial in. Well, Dr. Clausen, thank you for sitting down. Can you just tell us briefly what you do for a living? You're a professor. Tell us what you do. Sure. Well, thank you for having me, Johnny. It's a joy to be with you and talk through some very important things related to life and ministry. Well, as far as what the Lord has given me to do, I'm, first of all, a husband, and I've been married for 27 and a half years.

So that's been a joy. The half is important. The half is important. And as you get older, you start to cherish the extra halves, but I'm five foot 11 and a half. Exactly. Yes. And, uh, marriage just keeps getting better. So I'm thankful for that. I've got four kids and, uh, they've all been through the master's college or are in the master's college or university right now. And I've got a grandson as well. So my oldest is married and has a son. And then I have ministry on top of that outside

of the family. And that would be first, my regular job is at the Master's Seminary and I serve as professor of Bible exposition. And then at Grace Community Church, I'm a lay elder, and I have the joy on Wednesday nights of teaching to our men's ministry called Men of the Word. And then on Sunday mornings, I have the joy of being a co-pastor in our fellowship group called Commissioned. Love it. Well, I'm thankful for all that you do in blessing other people in your ministry and training men. I wanted to talk to you today about hermeneutics. I think a lot of people in the church understand necessarily

that they are to love and prioritize the Word of God. It is in our pursuit of the Lord and His Word that we are transformed into the image of the one we behold. But I want to ask you about what hermeneutics has to do with not only our personal Bible study, but even from a pastoral perspective, how that plays out in regards to your preparation for preaching. Maybe some people are unfamiliar with what that term means. So maybe first, just define it. What is hermeneutics? And then secondly, why is it so essential for us to understand and implement certain principles in our personal and pastoral lives.

Sure. Yeah. And this is a massively important topic. The scriptures are that instrument by which God mediates himself to us, his wisdom, his truth, and the life that he has for us, and the wisdom that we need for living our lives as followers of Jesus Christ. So when it comes to handling the scriptures, we must be very, very intentional, very careful, and we have to strive for precision in how we handle the scriptures. And when it comes to hermeneutics, a lot of people say, well, what is that and do I need them? Is that some kind of just a scientific addition, something that has come as a result of the Enlightenment or some kind of secular study? And the answer is no. In fact, the term hermeneutics comes from some Greek verbs, which mean to translate or to interpret.

And so the term finds itself in actual biblical terminology. How we use that term today very simply refers to the principles we use when we approach communication of any sort, for that matter, including the scriptures. But we are creatures, which means we don't know innately. We don't know implicitly. We must interpret. It's not a result of the fall. It's a result of our creaturely status. Now, because of sin, our ability to interpret and the way that we approach it is obviously skewed and has been compromised, sometimes very significantly, by the effects of sin.

But we still need hermeneutics. And it's essential in light of the reality of sin and in light of the fact that the Bible was written so long ago that we use the right principles for reading. And that's what hermeneutics refers to, the principles we use in the interpretation of Scripture. And we use those principles because we don't want to merely read words on a page. We know that those words stand for a meaning. They are the channel through which the revelation of God comes to us through those words that God has superintended through the biblical writers, those words that have been left for us on the pages of Scripture.

And so when we talk about those rules, then it's important to consider which rules are the right ones. It's not just that we use any rules. And there are many different options out there, many competing ideas, many competing principles. It's important that we employ the right ones that rightly recognize what God's Word is. So if you were to ask me, what kind of principles do we use in the study of Scripture, my first answer would be we use the principles that recognize what God's Word is. It is the Word of God from a benevolent, gracious God who has, in his own mercy and grace revealed himself to us, of course, primarily and ultimately in Jesus Christ. But the record of that testimony is in the text of Scripture. And so our approach to Scripture has to reflect that reality. And I would say that the principles that are most fundamental for every

Christian would be the following. I'd say about, let's say, six foundational principles, six hermeneutics. And the first one would be this. We have to start with attitude. And that means we come to God's Word in an attitude of submission and a recognition of our dependency upon God for us to understand his word. Attitude is everything in interpretation. And that's where prayer fits in. And that principle, I call it a principle of hermeneutics, must affect everything that we do in the entire process of handling Scripture. Recognizing the authority of the Word of God and submitting ourselves to that and seeking His enablement in handling His Word the right way. Secondly, I would say that a very crucial hermeneutic is that we set aside our pre-understandings and we seek the intent of the

author. That's so crucial because we all have our pre-understandings of texts. We have our preferences. We like to think that we know a lot already. And so one of the dangers in coming to the Bible is the danger of what we could call the illusion of mastery, that we already know this. And so crucial to coming to Scripture is this realization that I've got to set aside my pre-understanding. It may be correct, but I've got to set aside that pre-understanding and I've got to sit at the feet of the author. I've got to seek his intent. Third, I would say that crucial to understanding the Bible correctly is to read the language naturally and in context. We sometimes have our, again, it's a pre-understanding that if it's

something that God has written, it must be mysterious and defy the rules of grammar and defy the context in which that text was given. And the answer is no. If God has already been so considerate so as to come down in considerateness and use the existing languages of Hebrew and Greek, it means that he is going to use the rules of those languages as well. And so it's important that we read language naturally, and we read it according to context. And in fact, I'll tell students a lot, you know, in the same way that, you know, we approach trying to find a place to live. We emphasize location, location, location, same way for Bible interpretation, context, context, context. A fourth principle that I would emphasize would be the need to seek one definitive meaning. Again, that's tied to the author's intent.

We're looking for one meaning. We're not seeking to essentially throw a drip pan under it and catch whatever ideas come to mind about the text. But what is that one message that the author is communicating through the text? That's vital. Fifth, and as important as all the other principles so far, I would say read in light of antecedent revelation. Every biblical writer, as he writes, after Moses, with Moses being the first and every biblical writer following in his line, there's a recognition that these men are prophets and they are writing in the line of other prophets. And they're building upon this progressive revelation as God increasingly reveals himself in greater and greater detail. And so whenever you

approach a text, you have to consider what other texts have been assumed in the writing of this text. What texts have preceded? What language, what terms, what ideas is this biblical writer building upon as he communicates new revelation under the superintendence of the spirit? And then finally, I would say that the sixth and kind of the capstone principle when it comes to general rules of interpretation is to validate your exegetical results. And that recognizes that we are limited and finite and fallible. Can you explain real quick what you mean by exegetical results, just for someone that may not know? As you've gone through the text, you've studied the words, you've studied the grammar, you've studied the allusions in the text to antecedent revelation,

and you're starting to build this conception of what the author was intending as he wrote these words. And you get to a point in the process where you say, you know, I think I know what the text is saying. I've studied the words. I've studied the references. I've looked at the grammar. I've considered the metaphors and so on and so forth. And I think I know what the writer has communicated here. It's important at that point that you don't just move forward and assume that you're correct. A very important principle of sound interpretation or exegesis is that you'll validate those results, which means you're going to look to others to seek affirmation, validation of the text or the interpretation of the text that you've come up with.

You're going to look through all of Scripture to make sure that you don't assert something that actually is contrary to something else that's asserted elsewhere. You're going to give consideration even to the history of Bible interpretation. You're not the first one to approach the text. And then you're going to really be sensitive to the community of believers that the Lord has put around you who will sharpen you, who will challenge you, who will even point out your blind spots in your interpretation of the Bible. That's so vital. That's why God has given us the church for that kind of ministry in our lives. So those would be the main principles I'd emphasize as part of a healthy approach to interpreting Scripture.

Yeah, one thing just going back to number four that I think is important. You said to try to find the definite intended meaning of the author. Now, if someone was going to say, well-intentioned, what does this passage mean to you? Maybe explain the distinction between having one right meaning. So why that would be maybe an inappropriate way to frame a question, but how there can be or could be personal application of a definite meaning. So God being our refuge and strength, that does have a specific meaning. But would it be fair to ask in that regard, how does this comfort you or how does this apply to you? And what does that cause you to do in light of who God is?

Maybe explain the distinction there. Yeah, and that's an important distinction. We have to emphasize that meaning is one, but applications are many. Meaning is static. It doesn't change. The moment that any biblical writer recorded the words upon the page as he was moved by the Spirit to write the text, that meaning was forever frozen in time. And so whatever the text means today is what it meant and what the text meant is what it means today. That singular truth that's in the text communicated by the words and the grammar. However, we do acknowledge the fact that you have different readers in different eras of history and at different stages of life. You have male readers and female readers.

You have elderly. You have young. And so you have readers from a myriad of places within life. And God's word has authority over all of them, married and single, male and female, rich and poor. Now, how that meaning relates to those individual readers, whether in the first century or in the 21st century, how it relates is going to look a little different. We call that application. And that application will differ from era to era, generation to generation. Let me give you an example. When we read Ephesians chapter four,

and the apostle Paul says, let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth except that which is beneficial for edification. Paul wrote that within a very specific context. Those words have definite meaning, and the meaning hasn't changed. But Paul wrote that in an era that knew nothing of social media. In fact, it was an era of oral communication, very little in terms of written communication. Nowadays, most of our communication is even written or text form. And so the apostle Paul had no idea of what texts and internet posts and

social media, all of that was, but Paul's words do relate to social media. So as we say, one meaning for a text, but many applications. And that's the important distinction to make. So somebody asked the question, what does this text mean to me? I would say, OK, let's let's stop for just a moment. And what do you mean by mean? Yeah. And if you're asking, how does this text apply to me and exercise its authority over me? Yes, that's going to be more personal. And I want it means to you. That could be more of the postmodern idea that truth is relative. And I have my truth and you have your truth. And that's definitely a danger when it comes to Bible reading.

That's really helpful. And I think that, yeah, sometimes people put the application before they put the priority of finding the meaning. We are so self-centered in that. We want to pull the Bible into our orbit. Sure. And we want to make the biblical text all about us. We want to find what is going to help us immediately and going to provide that wisdom, that insight, that application to my own circumstances. But here's another important principle to reading the Bible well, and that's to realize, you know what? The Bible does have authority over you,

and it is about you, but only in a secondary sense. You are to be pulled into the Bible's orbit. Totally. Your mind, your thoughts, your beliefs, your convictions, your values, even how you think the Bible has to apply to you, that has to be pulled into that orbit because what you think you need is not necessarily what you really need. And it's only by being pulled into the Bible's orbit that that Bible really does come to have authority over your life. Which kind of goes back to that first principle you established of having an attitude of humility and maybe just finally maybe compound and expound on that idea of why approaching the

Word of God with a spirit of humility is necessary just for any of these other five principles that you mentioned to have any sort of lasting effect in our life. Because if we're not viewing it as the authoritative word of God, we're going to end up asking the Bible to submit to our interpretation rather than our lives to submit to its authority. So maybe just touch on that element of necessary humility once more for whether this is a pastor studying the text or a person or mom just going, I want to know God's word. Yeah. And that is the crucial issue is attitude. And we see that even at the highest level in the distinction between an unbeliever and a believer. The believer is the one who has submitted himself. The believer is the one who has trembled at the word, who recognizes who

it is who is speaking to him. And so conversely, the unbeliever is the one who remains hardened in his sin and his own authority. So at that level, you see the difference between the natural man who does not accept the things of God and considers them foolish, 1 Corinthians 2, 14. And the spiritual man who is able to appraise all things. And that spiritual status is one of ultimate humility. We have recognized who it is who has spoken to us, and we tremble at his word. But then for the Christian cultivating that humility. It means that when we approach the Bible, we don't treat it cavalierly. We don't just flip it open and start reading and try to grab from it that principle or those keys to whatever we need for the day. It means there is an intentionality, whether you're a pastor or whether you're a mother of four young children and you're just trying to find some time

to spend with the Lord in communion and you want to receive from his word. It means you do approach it in any status of life as a believer, in any category of ministry. You approach it with humility. You open it up and you realize these are the words of Almighty God. And I must approach it with prayerfulness right from the very beginning, with dependency on my lips as I pray. Lord, open my eyes. Psalm 119 verse 18, that I may behold the wonderful things in your law. And that kind of humility then is instrumental, first of all, in creating the hunger to study. It's instrumental in creating the tenacity and endurance in study. It's essential for creating teachableness because we realize that we are fallible and we have sinful biases and so on. And it's that humility then that also creates the courage because when we have had our eyes enlightened by the Spirit to the meaning of the text,

we realize this is the voice of Almighty God and it doesn't matter what other men say. I will believe it. I will obey it, and I will teach it, and that's just the way it is. That's so helpful, Dr. Klassen, just even starting with that attitude, those other principles that you've mentioned. And so thank you just for your input and perspective on a needed subject, hermeneutics, our interpretation of God's Word, and ultimately starting with our attitude as we approach the Bible, which is, as we've kind of routinely called it and forget, the word of God. And so thank you for your help in this regard.

It's been a joy.