Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Carl Hargrove - How should spiritual leaders care for their own soul?

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Jonny Ardavanis is the Dean of Campus Life at The Master’s University, a Camp Director at Hume Lake Christian Camps and hosts the podcast Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis. He is passionate about the Gospel and God’s Word and desires to see people understand and obey it. Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis: Big Questions, Biblical Answers, is a series that seeks to provide biblical answers to some of the most prominent and fundamental questions regarding God, the Gospel, and the BibleIn this episode Pastor and Professor Carl Hargrove answers the question: “How should spiritual leaders care for their own soul?”Watch on YouTubeFollow on InstagramVisit Our Website

Hey guys, my name is Johnny Artavanis, and this is Dial In. In this episode, I sit down with pastor and professor Carl Hargrove and ask him about the importance that spiritual leaders, pastors, and missionaries should have on nourishing their own souls. Let's dial in. Carl, thanks so much for sitting down with me. You know, when I sit across from you, Carl, I'm reminded of the duties of a pastor. Often those that are emphasized are to preach the word, shepherd the flock, equip the saints, protect from error.

But less is said about the nourishment that is needed for the pastor's soul. And when I think of you and even our interactions, you've come with something that God is teaching you from the Psalms or what God is doing. Even when I see you on social media, I'd say, here's what God is doing in my own life. Would you talk to us and to many today about what it looks like as the pastor's greatest duty?

And that is his duty to just be a child of God. Yeah, what a great question. Absolutely necessary. Yeah. I mean, for your spiritual journey. And I think that's where we start. I'm on a spiritual journey. Everyone is.

It has been called to Christ. And we travel a similar road, which is we're growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ. But there are lanes within that road, if you will. And some are traveling on a pastoral role. Some are traveling on a road that says, I'm a missionary. Some are traveling on a road where it's, I'm a mom that's going to homeschool and I'm going to get my kids through and I'm going to support the family. And that's her road that she's on. But for the pastor, as I travel, I must travel it with the Lord. So what does that mean for me? That I'm first a Christian. That's really it. I am first to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, a person that's been called to grow in the grace and

knowledge of Christ, and I have to cherish that. I've often talked to students at the Master's Seminary about their spiritual lives and taught a class that addressed their spiritual lives and why it's so important because I've seen even at that high level of commitment that it can be lost, which is unfortunate. Capable students, but yet spiritually drained men throughout the world,, capable individuals, but spiritually drained. So there has to be a first order of business, which is, I'm a believer. I'm a child of God. Let me maintain this childlike perspective and nourish my own soul so that I can properly

nourish others. Now, is this something new? Am I saying something that's unique? Of course not. But it's one of these things where we need a reminder. Constantly God saying to the people of God, remember, remember, remember, remember, remember. Why? Because it's obvious the tendency to forget. And so I have to stop for a moment and say, what a cherished possession I have that I am now considered a child of the living God. I never want to outgrow that. And I think that's where ministers must be careful that they never outgrow this foundational thought that I've been called by the living God and I can intimately know him. I mean, think about Paul's passion that I might know him and the power of his resurrection. He wanted to have an intimate knowledge of God. We see it obviously throughout

the psalmist in this sense of desire that he has to know his God. We see it in our ultimate example, the Lord Jesus Christ and the time that he will go away and spend with his father. Now, think about it for a moment theologically. Here they are face to face. But yet now as the God man, he is still striving and wanting and desiring to spend time with his Father. And so a good child does that because they have a good father, and we want to learn from that father. For the pastor who is often, and really not often, always a spiritual father to others,

then I need to say as your spiritual father, I'm spending time with our Father so that I can nourish you. Yeah. Which means I need to have time to reflect on God. I have a habit personally, reading through the Bible in large chunks. Right now, I have a group of people that are with me in my fellowship group through the Bible in 90 days. Why do I do it? I just need that nourishment.

Why do I do it? I need it to fight temptation so that my thoughts are being controlled. My thoughts are God-oriented because I see myself as every man should, having the potential to fail, and I don't want to fail. And I ask myself, how can I avoid that? Well, sure, there are disciplines that one can have. There's accountability that one can have. But if your soul is not nourished properly, you will, even as we heard yesterday, this sense you will hunger for something else. And so I need to be nourished on the words of God. We're often telling people as a pastor

to surrender. We're telling them here is the alternative in the world, which is no good. God is better. God is superior. God is majestic. God is great. God is good. And then it would be, I think in one sense, the height of hypocrisy not to enjoy that yourself. Then it's just an academic exercise. I mean, it could be exegetically accurate, but experientially it's not. So I want to have that experience of God as well. And I think perhaps sometimes we become leery of that thought because we hear experience and we think experience, that's what those other people do. They talk experience. Well, what is the Christian life? But it is an experience. It's a journey.

No, it's guided by biblical doctrine doctrine but it is a journey with the living God yeah and then what I'm doing as a minister of the gospel I'm trying to edify others and then they're edified so they can tell others join me on this journey repent believe and now travel this road with me so the pastor must be careful of it. I'll give you an example. I teach a class at the seminary entitled The Pastor in Prayer. And I asked the students to pray so many minutes per day. And I said, this may not be your habit now, but I think you can nurture it. I've never taught a class where I didn't have a significant amount of students who said, this is new for me. I've neglected my prayer life. I feel overwhelmed. I've never had a class that way,

where students didn't say that in some significant number. And these are men who committed to the Lord, that believe the things that we do, that have the convictions that we do. And interesting enough, what I did is I had one student some years ago do a survey at Shepcon, and he went around and he surveyed men asking them about their prayer life. And some of the same sort of concerns came up, that in the busyness of ministry and serving the God of ministry, we're not sitting before that God. We're not spending time with Him.

What safeguards then, Carl, like, I'm just hearing the importance of that. And it's so, it's convicting, you know, you've convicted me. What safeguards do you set up in your own life? If you said you need the time to reflect on God, you know, so many people on a quest of being poured out like a drink offering, like Paul, maybe highlight and pursue ministerial opportunities at the expense of just reflection. What safeguards do you have in your life to guard you from just becoming too busy? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, we start, yeah, I have my schedule. I go in it.

Here's my time to get away. Here's my time for study. And I leave gaps. And those gaps, I just want to get away. Here's my time for study. And I leave gaps. And those gaps, I just want to get away. And it's something simple for me. It doesn't have to be terribly complicated. It just means, you know, I'm still into exercise as much as I can. My body will allow me. I can tell. At this point, you know, the remnants of the past. But I get out when I'm out. I have my earbuds in and I'm listening to scripture.

I get out and I love going places. And that's what often people see me. They follow me on social media. They'll see me taking pictures in a park. They'll see a picture of a tree. They'll see a picture. Recently, I was in northern Idaho at Priest Lake. And I took a picture there of this beautiful lake.

And it was like glass and I just thought, look at God. This is wonderful. I went out at night and I looked up into the heavens and I think this is what David was seeing when he was out there as a shepherd, that it was declaring the glory of God. Spend those moments, you have them. That's the reality. The moments are there, we just have to take them.

We have to seize them. And part of that is just even what you said about meditating on God's word being the filter by which you see everything. Yeah, I see everything through it. Yeah, and that's where that just, even that 90-day absorbent amount of time within God's word is going to filter every thought. It does. So I'm thinking, right now I'm thinking I'm in 1 Kings. I think right now I'm about 1 Kings 12. So I'm thinking this transition from David to Solomon and him firmly establishing the kingdom in his hands only by the grace of God.

So that goes through my mind through the day. It's with me. So I do that. I find that those moments. Are there moments when I come to the end of the day and I thought, oh, my, this got away from me. Yeah. I do. And then I don't care what it is.

Then I'll make a commitment to just stop. And even as you said, like there's an element of duty and delight as a child. And it's something you'll feel as your duty. But also if you're a good son or good child and he's a good father, you'll want it. Yeah, you'll want it. You want to have the experience. I can think about times that my dad, I was, my mom died when I was really early, so raised by my dad. And we had wonderful moments. I could right now recall going to Daytona Beach with my dad. That's the best. I can recall right

now memories in high school and seeing him when I played football in the stands. Yeah. In Florida, you know, it's piping hot in the summer and the humidity is high. I remember, hey, we go to 7-Eleven and get a Slurpee. How is it? Look at my gray hairs. I'm getting up there now. But those are great memories that I have. And I have sweet memories with my Heavenly Father. Yeah, when I sinned and I said, oh, forgive me. And I have that sense that I'm forgiven because of Christ. When I need wisdom for life and I pray to Him

and He gives me insight on a situation, I say, oh wow, that's a sweet moment with my Father. When I am going out and I'm on a walk and I see the heavens and I see His creation, I think, thank You that You allow me to see that from that perspective. Whereas if I were not a believer in Christ, I wouldn't have that. And so we have to take advantage of the opportunities that are all around us to make sure that we're thinking about God. Carl, that's so helpful and challenging for me.

And I think of what you're saying about memories with God. We tend to depersonalize our relationship with God as like our creator, but as a father. And that's why when Jesus teaches us to praise, there's that level of intimacy. And what you said, we tend to stray away from experiential language. There's a reason the psalmist says taste and see. And there's a reason why those who crave the word of God. And Peter says, if you have tasted the goodness and kindness of the Lord.

And so, Carl, that's so helpful. Thank you for your time. Oh, absolutely.