Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Sodom and Sexual Ethics | Paul Twiss and Jonny Ardavanis

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Paul Twiss explores what the Bible teaches about sexuality, marriage, and God's design for intimate relationships. We discuss the biblical response to sexual sin, pornography, homosexuality, and how the church should address these challenging topics with both truth and grace.Key Topics Covered: • Biblical view of marriage and sexuality • Understanding sexual sin and its consequences • How to talk about sex in the church appropriately • The gospel's power to heal sexual brokenness • Genesis and God's design for relationships • Responding to the sexual revolution with truth • Freedom from shame through Christ's forgivenessWhether you're struggling with sexual sin, seeking to understand biblical sexuality, or looking for wisdom on how to discuss these topics, this episode offers hope, healing, and biblical guidance.

We find ourselves at this moment in history in the middle of a sexual revolution, and the church has to respond. And I don't think we serve our people well by simply reissuing a series of prohibitions. It's almost a secret subject in the church, and then it's the only subject in the world. That's right. Why is this the subject where the world butts heads with the church? If you're pursuing a sexual ethic that is not honoring to God, it is going to bring so much pain and suffering into your life that you do not want. And so, you know, my encouragement, someone listening who is perhaps wracked by guilt

or can't seem to get beyond something that's happened in their past. There is no sin that you have done in the past that is beyond the grace of the gospel. Bring it to the Lord, acknowledge it to be sin, and Christ will cover your sins. And the wonder of the gospel is that he can heal you. Well, welcome back to the Dialin Ministries podcast. I'm sitting here once again with Dr. Paul Twist. Paul, we've been talking for the last couple episodes

on just how understanding the book of Genesis is so pivotal to our understanding not only of what it means to be an image bearer, But recently, we just looked at with our understanding of marriage and children and how that's a part of God's design, it's the grace of life. And because this is an institution that God loves, it's an institution that the world and Satan are constantly going to attack. And we see that play out even in the remaining chapters of Genesis in Sodom and Gomorrah. But in this episode, I want to talk about just the aberrations of biblical sexuality. That could be pornography.

It could be sleeping with your girlfriend. It could be divorce, could be as we see in Sodom, homosexuality. I want to talk about that a little bit. But maybe just talk elsewhere about how we see the ripple and the damage that pursuing sexual intimacy outside of God's design has. And then I want to get to the grace of God at the end to forgive us of that sin and shame. Yeah, so again, marriage, an exclusive and a permanent union between one man and one woman. And I think you're right, Satan, the world, tries to undermine tamper with that idea in every possible way.

So exclusivity, take away from that. Open marriage, divorce, no-fault divorce, not entering into marriage but trying to have all the benefits of it. The cohabitation. Yeah, the permanency of it. And then, as you brought up, the fact that marriage is defined by God as between one man and one woman and the most obvious deviation would be homosexuality. And it's not something that we can argue away as an issue within the cultural context, because we do find it from Genesis being an issue onwards. It's not just something that crops up one isolated time in the New Testament. There's lots of arguments against homosexuality being understood as sinful,

but I think the Bible is consistent from beginning to end. And that consistency of the message is one of the things we can point to concerning the fact that it is an issue. It's a problem. And the Solomon Gomorrah narrative would be a place where we can go to in Genesis to show that. To be clear, there's lots of issues in the Sodom and Gomorrah narrative. There are lots of problems, lots of different layers of the sin there. One of them is the desire for relationships between men and men, homosexual relationships.

And God acts in a decisive way. He judges those people and he rains down fire on them. Even to the point where as Lott's wife looks back, which I understand to be, she is... Mining, almost. Yeah. I mean, she's not trusting in her fleeing. And so is there something going on in her heart that is acquiescing to the sins there? The Lord turns her into a pillar of salt.

Even that I take to be symbolic. She and that land, the sulphur that comes down, there is nothing that's going to be produced from that family or from that land ever again. because of their sin. So the whole episode, I think, is the negative equivalent to what we were speaking about last episode. As we talk about the goodness of marriage,

as defined by God, anything that is not that and yet tries to be marriage, fulfill that place, is offensive to God, and he will not bless it it's so important to understand god is not pleased when we try to play and tamper with the institution of marriage however we might try to do it as a society and sexuality in generally sexually sexuality generally so one of the things that i've talked about is just how pervasive a an unbiblical sexual ethic is in our society today and this comes by way of of the internet again social media particularly in the form of pornography but more generally more

broadly and more subtly i think it's a communication of things that aren't marriage being inherently good that's the message that you'll see um casual sex sex outside of marriage is inherently good is the message that you'll get from society and we can be so deceived and so broad into that way of thinking. And the truth is, you know, one image on social media or a video, that is not portraying the reality of the situation. I mean, I want to say this to young people over and again, please understand what you look at on social media is not true.

When somebody puts an image up on Instagram, they're giving you what they want you to think about them. And so I can project a version of me that isn't real, and I can post that online, and that's why I want people to think about me. And that is true of people that aren't honoring God with the way they're conducting themselves sexually. And we can get sucked into believing that that image, or whatever it is, is good, and it doesn't have consequences. And it's not reaping a harvest that we don't want to have in our lives. We can miss all of that and get drawn into a lie. The truth is, if you pursue a sexual ethic that is out with what the Bible gives, one man, one woman, exclusive permanent relationship, if you're pursuing a sexual

ethic that is not honoring to God, it is going to be disastrous for you. It is going to bring so much pain and suffering into your life that you do not want. It comes down to an issue of trust. Am I going to trust that God's plan truly is the best plan? And am I going to resist and by God's grace turn away from and not enter into whatever he tells me isn't his plan? It's not good for me. Hey, thanks so much for taking time to listen to this resource. I want to make you aware of a few things before we continue on in this episode. First of all, I want to thank those of you who are monthly supporters that make the production of this content and the ministry the dial-in does possible. If you sign up today for a monthly gift, you'll receive a free dial-in mug on the

house. It makes even bad coffee taste good. Secondly, if you haven't already, you can sign up for our thrice weekly devotional, which is a three to five-minute devotional read to ground your day in God's word. If you head to our website, dial in ministries.org, you can just enter your email and you'll start receiving those on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday morning. Third thing is, I just want to thank those of you who have reached out and offered encouragement regarding my recent book, Consider the Lily's Finding Perfect Peace in the Character of God. It's been really neat to see both individuals and church small groups walk through this book, which is essentially a book on the character of God and how it functions as the catalyst to people.

peace and trust in a worried and anxious world. And then just last thing, we are always talking through different ideas for content that would be, Lord willing, a benefit to you to encourage you, to potentially challenge you. So if you have any ideas for future episodes or for future series, you can drop a comment in the section below. Thanks so much. So, you know, you mentioned like having an aberrant maybe sexual ethic, whether that be, you know, sleeping with your girlfriend, whether that's homosexuality.

we have no fault divorce and Carl Truman traces that out I think in the rise of the modern self just how that kind of was the ripple effect of all these other elements of marriage no longer became something that was sacred and so with that you have this rise of rampant sexuality, abortion skyrocketed

all of these different elements. We talk about the biblical view of sex I think a lot in the church or it's always kind of a subject with great tension, you know, between the world and the church today. Why is the subject of sex and sexuality and marriage so prevalent.

I mean, let's go back even to the idea of being an image bearer. Like, why is this the subject where the world butts heads with the church and where the church has to make it a strong stand? And if you think about, like, how do I know if a church is solid? You're basically going, do they preach the true gospel?

Did they stand for biblical sexuality? Yeah. Right? Like, I mean, there's other things in between, but, like, why is this so, large and looming for everyone to be able to understand and defend and even when you were preaching through it at the university

you said you need to be able to give an answer for what does the Bible say about homosexuality you need to be why yeah I mean one answer you can give to that question is because we find ourselves at this moment in history in the middle of a sexual revolution and that's what the social commentators call it and we're not done with it

and I don't think we've yet seen the full harvest of the sexual revolution. And people, you know, much more competent and understanding of the time than I am have written extensively, Cole Truman, just one example, on where did that sexual revolution come from? The truth is, probably many factors

within history that worked together at just the right time to produce this. At a fundamental level, I do think it has something to do with our desire for pleasure and God has given us a really, really good gift in sex and people want that, they want the pleasure, but as sinners, we don't want the responsibilities. And again, it goes back to seeing God's goodness in the design. God has protected us. His design is the safe environment within which we can enjoy the good things that he's given us. Marriage is the safe environment

to enjoy that good gift. And what we don't realize is that when we step outside of that environment, the institution of marriage, and try and have the pleasure that sex offers us, it just has consequences. It brings damage and pain and brokenness. And so the way that history's works, and I think it's particularly prevalent right now,

society is championing a form of sexual ethics that is not biblical, and the church has to respond. And I don't think we serve our people well by simply reissuing a series of prohibitions. Again, think about young people growing up in my church, looking down the road to their future, I think if all I do is their pastor is tell them that Christianity permits this,

it does not permit this, I don't know that I've served them particularly well. I want to make plain, don't misunderstand me, I want to make claim what is sin and what is not sin and what the commands of Scripture are, but I want to show them why it's so good to be found in Christ, in obedience to His Word. I want to get underneath those commands and speak about what it means to be found as an image bearer in relationship with one woman exclusively and permanently. and why is that such a precious gift to us

so that they can hopefully see the prohibition that God gives is actually a really good thing and it's not that I want to try and live my life you know kind of hovering around there enjoying some of the experiences that sin might give but maybe just not make sure I make sure I don't step over it

no actually I want to be over here because it's a really dangerous and scary place to be stepping beyond that prohibition. I want to be found rejoicing in the commands that God gives me and delighting to be found obeying him because it's so good for me to be found there. And that's just especially prevalent right now in the realm of sexual ethics.

You mentioned the church has to do a good job at saying more than don't have sex until you're married. Right. And then if you're married, don't talk about it. That's right. You know, and honestly, that's kind of the way that I grew up, you know, like no one ever talked to me about sexual intimacy and ever, you know, period, growing up in the church. I think that there's a few reasons.

First of all, they don't want to maybe elicit curiosity before it's time, you know, like. Sure. But I think on a quest of not maybe cultivating curiosity, it's just not talked about enough. like, let's go back to your word, the beauty of God's story and of marriage. How do you appropriately as a pastor, you know, cultivate that understanding even amongst young people of going like, hey, God made sex. He made it for his glory. It's an expression of his goodness.

Because almost in our world, we talk about it, it's almost a secret subject. Yeah. Right? In the church, and then it's the only subject in the world. That's right. And that does no one favors. want your young people to be getting their sex education from the world.

No. So if you're not talking about it in the church, you have to understand that they will learn about it. You do not want them to be learning about it first and foremost through social media. No, and someone's discipling your children. That's right. It'll be either the church or the world. And, you know, I mean,

I honestly, I've talked to so many students, the first access they ever had to pornography was typing into Google, what is sex? You know, and it's like, man, at a certain point, as a parent, You know, like if I don't have sons, I have three daughters, but I would want to beat the world to the punch. That's right. That's right. And so even from a pastoral perspective, like I don't want to teach it in a way that's crass.

Obviously, there's a noble, there's a nobility and a dignity to talking about the subject, which is why, you know, Harry only, he calls it intimacy. He doesn't even use the term, you know, and I understand that. But how does the, how does the church do a better job at cultivating this high sense of what marriage and sexuality, is so that even their understanding of homosexuality or pornography or sleeping with your girlfriend isn't like, that's just bad. Don't do that. But it's met with this biblical girding of seeing the full picture. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great question. And I actually have the same policy. We have our young people from age of like 12 upwards are in the whole service. they're hearing my sermons to the congregation and sex is an issue that will come up from time to time in the text and I'll always just say intimacy and one of the reasons for that isn't even necessarily to avoid the word sex but I want people to think about sex in a certain way intimacy as I think of that word it just it communicates something of just how special and precious the gift is and so I would say you want to show people show young people

the glorious realities, the transcendent realities of that gift. And by contrast, just how base and undignified are deviations from that gift? Pornography, it is an objectifying of people. It's making them not people. You're treating them as an object. The pleasure that God grants us through intimacy has, a context. It's something that is found within a commitment, a covenant that you've made to one another to submit and surrender your life to each other. And you want to show people how glorious

that covenant is. Show people how glorious the relationship is within which intimacy is to be found so that it has for them not the sense of we don't talk about that but i understand it um people people aren't scared about it and actually it's such a special thing if you can communicate just how special how precious that is hopefully it's something that they certainly desire within the context of marriage. I mean, talk about young men growing up, having these desires. And I say, look, the desires themselves aren't inherently wrong. Sin will twist the desire. But God gives you that to move you towards marriage. To pursue that desire out with marriage, that's a terrible thing. Yeah. I want our young people to desire marriage and to understand the benefits and the

blessings of marriage and also just to look at to understand every deviation from that it's so ugly the world has a way of portraying it that may be appealing to the flesh but i want them to understand at a really fundamental level the ugliness of pornography or you know sleeping with your girlfriend you think it you think it's good let me show you how ugly it is and if i can can create that contrast and show them the transcendent glory, the beauty of

intimacy as God designed it within marriage. And now everything else is just so ugly. Hopefully, that means that sex for the younger generation isn't something they're fearful of. It's not something that

they're ignorant of, but something that they think of in a biblical way. And you instill in them that ethic and that worldview, Lord willing, to equip them so that when they leave from under the parents' authority and they step out by themselves into the world, they're going to be guided by what they know to be true, and that's going to inform the decisions that they make. And they won't get swept up in what the culture is telling them, and they won't get sucked into something that not only is dishonoring to the Lord, but it's going to be really, really

harmful for them if they pursue it. Yeah. You know, and even when we talk through sexual sin and the aberrations of maybe what biblical sexuality would be, we're also talking unique ground here. Paul says in first Corinthians 6, every other type of sin is committed outside the body. Right. You know, so like when sometimes people say, well, yeah, I struggle with sexual sin, you struggle with anger.

What's the difference? The Bible says all sin separates us from God, but not all sin is the same. Right. you know, saying, oh, that you struggle with envy and I struggle with pornography, those are not the same thing. They're not the same thing. From a biblical perspective. Yeah.

And I think sometimes we lose sight of that this is serious. And then maybe just for someone that's watching that has deep shame over sexual sin in their past and their present, how would you just encourage them in the First Corinthians, 612, such for some of you, maybe just pointed towards the grace of God. Yeah. Yeah. So it's so important in conversations like things. to go back to the cross

and to remember that the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover our sins in Christ we are completely forgiven. There is no sin that you have done in the past that is beyond the grace of the gospel. Bring it to the Lord, acknowledge it to be sin and Christ will cover your sins

and the wonder of the gospel is that he can heal you. So as people have maybe a history, that's wrapped up in all kinds of different sexual sin, there has been some damage done there. Yeah. The depth of which... Consequences are real. That's right.

There are consequences to our sin and maybe they don't know the extent of those consequences, but there's been brokenness and whether it's through something that you have done, or in case is something that someone has done to you. Yeah. I want to acknowledge the damage that that will have brought about. The blood of Christ covers your sin. You are forgiven and the glory of being a new covenant believer is that the spirit is going to heal you. He is making you into something that is gloriously Christ-like and whole again. And so, you know, my encouragement, someone listening who is perhaps wracked by guilt or can't seem to get beyond something that's happened in their past. If you don't know Christ, you have to write. run to Christ for salvation. If you're a Christian, you have to believe upon the gospel. Christians need to believe upon the gospel. Go back to the gospel. Ask yourself what is true

of Jesus' death on the cross. And the truth is, in Christ, your sins are forgiven. Rehears that truth daily and then walk in the newness of life that God has gifted you. Be around other Christians. Be in the church. Saturate your mind with truth. I trust. I trust. and I can testify, I've seen this in people's lives, a healing that the spirit brings about over time whereby that issue in your past can be so far behind you that you don't even feel that guilt or the consequences of anymore. And that is a supernatural work in you.

Yeah, I'm always thankful. Yeah, the grace of God is bigger than our sin. That's the hymn we sing. So Paul, I just want to thank you and just understanding even so many of the subject, we talked about today are grounded just in these initial pages of scripture and genesis it provides the framework for our understanding of being made in the image of god of being a worker what it means to be married that union children sexuality so thanks for just your input here the amount of work you've put

into understanding the scripture as a whole but genesis here in particular so thank you for your time my pleasure great to be here thanks for having me my pleasure thank you Thank you. Thank you.