Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Teach Your Kids to Work (Before It's Too Late) with Joel and Mary Beeke

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Are you accidentally raising a lazy adult? In this episode, Jonny sits down with Joel and Mary Beeke (author of "Teach Them to Work") to talk about why — and how — parents should train their children to work from an early age, not wait until adulthood.📖 Pre-order Jonny Ardavanis's new book Get to Work: Seeing Your Daily Grind as God’s Good Gift here: https://a.co/d/0aFMdjNpYou'll learn:• Why waiting until your kids are grown to teach them to work sets them up to fail• Practical ways to teach work to toddlers, young kids, and teens• The "5 E's" of raising a hard worker: entreaty, example, expectation, equipping, enjoyment• How to respond to the myth that "they have their whole life to work"• Why screens and overindulgence are quietly harming your kids• How moms play a uniquely powerful role in shaping a child's work ethicWhether you have toddlers, elementary-age kids, or teenagers, this conversation offers practical, biblical wisdom for raising children who see work as a gift from God — not a curse.Featuring Mary Beeke, author of "Teach Them to Work": https://a.co/d/00gl2kNsWe're excited to announce a new partnership with Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, which equips leaders for the church through programs from undergraduate to master's and doctoral degrees. To celebrate, Midwestern is giving away $10,000 to one pastor this October for Pastor Appreciation Month ($5,000 for a family vacation and $5,000 for a church need), so nominate your pastor today at mbts.edu/dialinThis episode is also sponsored by Accountable2You. Stay accountable in a digital world: check out Accountable2You at accountable2you.com/dialin — use code DIALIN for 25% off your first year.

This episode of Dialen is brought to you by Crossway, publisher of the Crossway Short Classic Series. This series introduces a new generation of readers to classic works of the faith, such as Heaven is a World of Love by Jonathan Edwards, and The Freedom of a Christian by Martin Luther. These books speak powerfully and truthfully about the Christian life. You can pick up a copy from the Crossway Short Classic series wherever books are sold, or visit crossway.org to get 30% off with a free Crossway Plus account. Why do children need to learn how to work? If you wait to your child as an adult to teach them to work, they're going to be lazy.

And good luck, yeah. Yeah, we can expect more of our kids than our culture says that we can expect. But how would you respond to that misconception regarding they have their whole life ahead of them to work? Because I think a lot of parents feel that pressure. Like, I don't want my kids to do anything. I want to have everything dialed for them and they never have the lift of finger. Yeah. I got kids that are four, five, and six.

what are some just little things that you would start to ingrain in your children. Welcome to Dial-in. My name is Johnny Artivantis. I'm sitting here with Dr. Beeky and Mrs. Mary Beakey and so grateful for you guys your example to me and your friendship over a number of years now since I had you come speak at the Master's University. But I want to talk about the subject of work. And you've written a book, teach them to work about your children. And children in general, How do parents train up the future generation to see work from a biblical perspective? And what does that look like practically? And I obviously know that you were both involved in the process of raising your children.

But why did you write the book and maybe the heart behind it and why you see it as something so critical for parents to understand? Yes. Well, for years, I thought about children working or not working. And my favorite subject to study is people. So I would have all these thoughts And it kind of goes back to my own childhood I was not a willing worker as a child

And then being a nurse, a teacher, a mom, a grandmom I saw all different kinds of kids Some were good workers, some were not And I also saw the culture Which was moving much more towards Not making your kids work like oh how can I be so cruel to my child I don't want to do child labor and they have their whole adult life to work so they can play as a child,

which results, and doesn't have good results, of course. And just getting in the mind of a child, and I had all these thoughts. And we were going through COVID, and everything was shut down. And I was talking about one more thought about kids working. And my husband stopped me in the sidewalk, and he said, now is the time to write this book. So he's a 15 days to slow this bread and write a book, yeah. Yeah.

So he was a great motivator for me to get. this book written and I think it's something that I wish I had read as when we were raising our kids and I think a lot of parents can can use a nudge and encouragement to teach your kids to work. So every night she'd come over during COVID and she's sit on the table next to me and my study, I'd be working on a book, she'd be working this book. We wouldn't talk to each other the whole night. Perfect. She pumped that book out. I don't know. Less than a year. year, which is really good for her. I'd be working at home in the day and at night by him. Well, I'm grateful that you've written it, and I just read it the majority of it again this

morning. And I called my wife and I just like, hey, we've got three girls, another baby coming maybe any minute here. But these are just things I want to ingrain in my children, maybe just from a fundamental perspective. Why do children need to learn how to work? And why is it's so important from a biblical perspective that, you know, over and over again throughout the book of Proverbs, it talks about fathers training their sons to be diligent. And it's something that, you know, I don't know if the average dad or mom is thinking that obviously there's the spiritual truth. And you say, like, I want to spiritually train my kids, but maybe outside of instructing your children in the fear of the Lord, I don't know if there's a more consistent command given,

especially in the book of Proverbs, than teaching your children to be diligent. So it maybe just walk through that. Why is it so important to teach your children how and why to work? Well, the very first thing that we have to do in life is something that we can't work at ourselves. We must be born again. That's the first thing. And so we pray for the Lord to work with His Holy Spirit in our lives. But then after that, okay, God worked in creation. Adam and Eve worked before the fall. So work is a good thing. It's, you know, go out and subdue the earth and replenish the earth. be fruitful and multiply. So that's a creation ordinance.

And the Ten Commandments, six days, shalt a labor, and the seventh you work. And so it takes up such a whole, a huge part of our lives. And if we don't learn how to work or if we hate it, we're just going to be miserable for most of our adult waking hours. And then just the practical thing of if you wait to your child as an adult to teach them to work, they're going to be lazy. And good luck, yeah. Yeah, right.

And so it's got to be a gradual thing from zero to 18, 21 years old. You know, you start out, you play a lot. A child plays. They learn things when they play. But they start working, too. If they can feed themselves, you have them feed themselves. It's a goal to try by the time they're adult that they can take care of themselves and that they can do everything, self-care, care for their future family.

So that's got to be a gradual trajectory. So as they get older, they work more and they play less. And I would say by time they're early teens, they should have all the basics of self-care down pat. And then from there, they're sort of working towards a possible career or being a mom and a dad. And we can expect more of our kids than our culture says that we can expect. Yeah, you talk about the transition in your book between parental discipline to self-discipline. And that's kind of what you're referring to here in regards to the transition over time, meaning like you're providing the training wheel, so to speak, for them to get an idea of this is what we do.

You know, we work. We serve and are made in the image of a working God. My father's working and I am working now. Jesus says, and God put Adam and Eve, not on a beach, but in a garden. And it wasn't a manicured garden. It was a wilderness that needed to be, to your point. subdued. Now, maybe just practically speaking, like, if someone's like, I got kids that are four, five, and six, what are some just little things that you would start to ingrain in

your children so that they get the idea that work is not a bad thing? Work is a God thing. It's a God-ordained blessing. It's not a derivative of the curse. It's a pre-fall institution, and we do it with like a level of joy. And how do you model that? And then how do you instruct it? A big thing is working together as a family that you do things together. And as mom and dad, you work alongside them as they learn how to do different tasks. And I always say if a little kid, and they can do this below one years old, they can take a bucket of duplos and just dump them everywhere. Well, then if they can do that, they're also able to pick them up.

And we've tried this on our grandkids a couple years ago. And our grandson, he just like, no, he didn't want to do it. I actually took his hand, grabbed the Duplo, put it in the bucket. And by time we were done, he was helping, you know. And so have them clean up after their own themselves, clear the dishes when they're, you know, able. So that they're part of the family. they it's not just mom and dad serving the kids because even a little child will know if mom and dad are their servant and if you do everything for them they'll know that so taking responsibility for themselves

and contributing to to the family that's that's a big part if they can do something then they should be on that trajectory to start doing it i mean if it's sunday morning and they're learning how to tie their shoes, you're not going to wait a half hour for them to tie their shoes. You're going to do it for them. So gradually on, if they can do something, they should be doing it for themselves, or at least be on the pathway to learning to do that. So there's a lot three and four and five year olds can do. And they also love to be like mommy and daddy, you know, buy them a toy kitchen, buy them a toy lawnmower, because they like to do big stuff, adult stuff. And at some point, they're going to figure out maybe it's not quite so much fun and they might resist but that's when

you get perseverance in there and then they have to learn another lesson to stick with it yeah anything that had there dr beaky yeah i just think yeah it's great but i think the whole concept of the living for the glory of god you can talk to even a three-year-old about that that this is why we what we do in life we do for the glory of god and a big part of that is work and so my dad used to I say to me, if it's worthwhile doing, you've got to do it really well because you're doing it for the Lord. I'm excited to announce a new partnership with Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, which exists to equip leaders for the church.

They have degrees ranging from undergraduate to masters and doctrinal programs, and you can learn more about Midwestern at mbt.edu. And to celebrate this new partnership, we're kicking things off in October with a big pastor appreciation month giveaway. Midwestern is giving away $10,000 to one pastor, $5,000 for a family vacation, and $5,000 for a church need. You can nominate your pastor to win. So if your pastor has faithfully served you and your church, take a moment and nominate him today. Just visit mbts.edu slash dialent.

That whole concept of a positive work ethic is a big part of what Mary feels, and I've seen her, talk to our kids about it a lot but also we try to model that of course in our own lives that work is exciting work when you do a job well you get a sense of satisfaction you're doing it for the glory of God

you feel good about it and try to teach your kids that that work is just a wonderful thing actually work is more fun than play because when you work you get the satisfaction of a conscience that affirms

yes I'm doing this for God. Yeah, I remember one time we've talked about the subject before, just you and me on the Puritan work ethic. And I asked you about what you would say about the max and, you know, enjoy what you do and you'll never work a day in your life. And I mentioned it in my upcoming book, but you said that would be a horrible, horrible, horrible way to live to not work a day in my life. And it really did frame the way that I thought through it because a lot of people train their kids saying, hey, enjoy what you'll do and you'll never work a day in your life. But that automatically puts work in a negative category.

If you enjoy what you do, you'll never have to work. But from a modeling perspective, from a parental perspective, you want to teach your kids. No, this is an amazing thing. This is a chief way that we model and mimic our maker and it's dignifying. And so I think that's such a critical piece to parenting is that you bring in this joy to it. And I do mow the lawn with my daughter. And we've done, you know, we do just different things like, you know, pick up the sticks around. the yard you know clean up the leaves because i want them i say we're the yardos and i say and we're hard

and they respond workers and but i want them to enjoy it right and so even what you're saying regarding play and it's it's more fun than play i think you mentioned the line in your book but you say parents will often look at their kids their kids and the next generation and say they'll have their whole adult life to work let them be kids now or let them play now and of course we don't want to go from one spectrum to another and you know at four years old they just need to be doing this and this and this and this, and you talk about play and the importance of it and fostering a home of joy. But how would you respond to that misconception regarding they have their whole life ahead of them to work? Because especially in relation to if you don't teach them to work now, they're not going

to know how to work later. And not only that, it is one of the most satisfying things that God gives us this side of eternity is to do a job well done. So maybe respond to that misconception, because I think a lot of parents feel that pressure. Like, I don't want my kids to do anything. I want to have everything dialed for them and they never have the lift of finger. Yeah. And if they follow that philosophy, their kids will be spoiled and they will not be happy. They will just, they'll just expect everything to be given to them. And if you let them grow up with that attitude that is very, very hard to change once they get to be even teenagers and especially as adults.

So the whole thing, the gradual easing into of learning how to work till they're adults, but also that allows you to work with negative behavior at a younger age, because if they're going to resist work and if they're going to, you know, throw a temper tantrum, you'd rather deal with that at two or three or four years of age rather than 16. A temper tantrum as a teenager is much harder to handle. For one thing, you know, when they're little, you can just pick them up. And I talk about a loving straight jacket. You just hold them and you can't behave this way.

You can't behave this way. This is not the right way. And then you can model proper behavior. And then you can work through that resistance that I don't want to work. And, you know, you're going to work. And you can deal with consequences, discipline, or natural consequences. I talk about, like if you forgot to feel. feed the cat, well, you're not going to eat until you feed the cat. Okay, you fed the cat, good, now

you can eat. You didn't put your laundry in the hamper. Well, then it's not going to get washed. Well, okay, put your laundry in the hamper. We're all going to do laundry together. And you can work with those things at a young age rather than waiting until they're older. And I think the play, too, the play is good. It is good. You play with water and mud and you learn how the physics of how things work, and you play ball, and you learn coordination, and, you know, you develop strength. So play is good. So you don't want to be a taskmaster to make them work all the time, although I must say

farm kids usually turn out pretty good, and they do a lot of work. They work a lot of hours, probably most of their waking hours. It's interesting what you're saying regarding just the responsibility of put it in the hamper, because I think there are a lot of parents who think that the dispensing of responsibility is antithetical to kindness. Yes. You know, and so if I give them a job to do, it means that I'm not caring for them and I'm not loving them. And biblically speaking, that's not true. You know, like if you love them, you're going to give them responsibility so you can train them up.

Like, how are they going to bear responsibility when they're older? And even like for me and I mentioned this previously in another episode, but like I feel like my dad taught me to work throughout my life. Like on Saturday mornings, we were out there pulling weeds. This is what we do. We're the yardos. We work hard. But on my 16th birthday, even though I had grown up in that environment, he took me up 10 miles away and said, men work, go find a job.

Don't come home until you have one. And that was a gift. And my dad, and you know my dad, he's not a militaristic guy. It was just, hey, this is the priority. This is what we do. And I think that's so important. In your book, and you talk about this at the end of your book, you kind of have these series of ease that walk through any of those, I would say, general principles regarding

I'm a parent, I want my kids to grow up to not be lazy and to work hard. And it's important that they know how to work hard because that's our silent witness to the watching world. Like it's a bad, a poor work ethic lacks continuity with the proclamation of the gospel. You've got to work hard. So maybe walk through those, I would say, pillars of or anything else that we haven't covered. Yes. And I say all these words that begin with an E just kind of popped out at me. And the first one is entreaty.

we have to pour our hearts out to God to ask him for help because raising kids is a hard job and we can't do it alone. The next thing in the area of work would be to be an example. Like if you're just sitting on the couch and telling your kids to work, that just doesn't work. You're an example of diligence and that you, this is worthwhile. And then the third one would be expectation. You don't just say, oh, Johnny, do you think you might like to unload the dishwasher? No, I don't feel like it. Well, no, that's not how you do it.

Johnny, unload the dishwasher. And if they don't do it, you expect them to. And you just have this attitude that you expect it. And then I also say equipping. You're equipping them for adult life. By the time they're an adult, they can carry their own weight and take care of their family. and then enjoyment. Don't forget to enjoy working and to show it. And you have a sense of accomplishment.

Even if it's a job you don't like, you're going to be glad when it's done. Or if you run up against obstacles, you learn how to overcome these obstacles. And then the kid says, yes, I can do it. This morning, I couldn't fix my bike. My bike was broken, and now I fixed it. And it just gives confidence. And they're going to be, if they learn how to work, they will be miles ahead of the competition once they get out there in the work world,

because unfortunately there's a lot of young people out there who they might not be honest. They don't put in a full day's work when they're hired. And so if they work hard, they're going to move up in the world. They're going to get rewarded for that. One of the things you say regarding like in treating the Lord just to ask them for help, and you talk about this in your book, And I thought it was a great point. You mentioned there are two guys at a table.

And he is reflecting on his children. And he says, I raise them all the same way. And I don't know what's, you know, there's something wrong with this one. I don't know what the deal is. I raised them all the same way. And then there's another man that says, well, that might be your problem. How do you just interact and pray or parent knowing that each of your kids is individual, right? as part of a family, but there is a uniqueness to each one of them and how there are general

principles here, but it's not one size fits all for every single one of your children. And so how have you guys thought through that and going like, hey, there's a unique element to each one of our kids and they need to be parented with similar foundations, but maybe different applications. Some 119 verse 9 reads, how can a young man keep his way pure by keeping it according to your word? one of the priorities of a person pursuing purity is the Word of God. I've said it before and I've written this for myself that if God's Word is not my priority, neither is my purity.

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Well, I think there's a, I'm big on fairness like you know same expectations same rules and so that you know you you treat each kid fairly but by the same token each one is different like one child is maybe very hardened and needs to be disciplined and proverbs talks about discipline it's it's necessary and another one you just look at them cross-side and they melt in a bucket of tears and so that that's where the uniqueness comes out And in areas of teaching them to work, I think the uniqueness, like if Sam is good at, he loves to take everything apart, but he also knows how to put it back together. Well, maybe he's headed for a trade where he fixes things. And if someone is very good with human relations, you know, maybe that's their niche.

So that's where the uniqueness comes in. Yeah, it's helpful. Anything to add there, Dr. Beakey? No, I think as long as we keep that perspective, and Mary's very good at this, you know, just we're doing it all for the glory of God, and that is a theme that comes out with the children constantly. This is why they're here on earth. So we're teaching you to work for the glory of God. But she's got a lot of patience to teach them. I was a little more impatient, I think. So like you say, okay, clean it. Let's, okay, clear the table. Let's clear the table. We got done with a meal.

and they don't respond right away. My tendency was, oh, I'll just do it, you know? Yeah. But that's a big mistake. She would say, no, you have to bring your share. And we have to really implement that. But for the glory of God. And then I know Mary believes this really a lot, too.

You reaffirmed them when they do work, and they do work well and cheerfully. That's very important, too. So that helps set the positive totally. phone as well. Yeah. And I read your book, Mrs. Beakey, and I think it's written to, you know, every parent can read it. But maybe just as you begin to land a plane, how do you, how would you elevate just the role

of a mother teaching her children how to work in a world that devalues motherhood as like, I'm keeping them alive rather than I'm raising the next generation? And I think that was kind of the, you know, the perspective throughout the book and not maybe implicitly is that, hey, this is a big job. And so I think sometimes it's like, I feel like, oh, as a, I would want moms to know that, you know, you are curating your children's childhood. There's a joy there. There's our memories here. And obviously when dad comes home, there's a level of parental involvement, discipline, example, modeling. But teaching them how to work, and especially when they're little, like, I'm not at home all day with my foreword.

year old my wife is right and so there's things like principals at dinner time and on the weekends but i work 60 plus hours a week so how do you elevate this responsibility uh to moms in a way where they can see the privilege and the significance of what you're talking about even here well god honors motherhood hugely and and being a mom is is is a big big job but it's so important and our culture has has taken this gift of motherhood and made it something like menial labor. And they've told us that having a career out in the world is more valuable than being a mom at home. But being a mother to your children is I compare it to a building, like every little squabble that you settle, every diaper you change, every load of laundry you do is like a brick in the building.

and you're building that little, a brick at a time, and by time they're an adult, hopefully you have a solid, sturdy building. But being a mom is just so valuable. You're nurturing an eternal soul, and you're bringing them, you're teaching them spiritually, physically, naturally. You're caring for their body, their mind, emotion.

And being a mom is very, very valuable. I think it's like one of the most valuable. We say it's the second. I always say it's this, I tell the congregation, too, it's the second most important occupation in the entire world behind the ministry. Because. Because the ministry you're dealing with souls,

a whole lot of souls all the time. But you're shaping a child. You're shaping the next generation. You're shaping the church as a mother. And this is huge. And life is short. And eternity is forever. And we can't bring any of our personal belongings

to heaven with us, but we can bring our children with us. And those are, they're the most valuable possession that we have. So their soul is, is number one priority. But of course, we have to take care of their body. We have to prepare them for natural life, too. So it's, don't let any moms out there, don't let anybody tell you that the career of being a mother is not valuable. You're a chef, you're a gardener,

you're a counselor, you're a police woman, you know, you're an accountant, you're the vice president of your corporation, of the family, you're just so much. So we stop, we stop, we have a habit of stopping any woman who says, well, I'm just a homemaker. I go, just, what are you talking about? Just, where did that word come from? This is a very, very important occupation. And your form, you know, I did a conference once in Italy for 200 ministers,

and it was something about family and motherhood and fatherhood. So I asked them to raise their hand. These are 200 ministers. If their mother had a huge influence in their conversion and their training and who they are now today. And from the podium, I think every hand went up, but maybe there were a few that didn't. But mothers have far more influence than anybody else on the kids, even more than the dad, because they're around them all the time. So this is huge.

And I think it's important to punctuate that reality, you know, because I think sometimes we don't see the sacredness of the menial, you know, and the mundane of the changing of the diapers. And, you know, even as I talked to my wife, Katie, like I want us to see parenting and motherhood as through God's eyes, you know, and so that there's so much significance here. And I have three daughters and, Lord willing, they're going to be married one day the godly meant.

And so I'm hoping and praying that the men that they potentially marry when they are in homes that value work and teach them those boys to work hard and that there is an element of teaching them to fear the Lord and that there's diligence in that home. Because I always ask, you know, I used to tell young people this, you know, at the university, do they love God? And are they lazy? You know, like, because it's not that simple, but those are two of the first five questions I'm asking. Are they walking in holiness, pursuing the Lord, and do they work hard? Because a lot of life can be summed up to fearing God, working hard. And I think a lot of times we overcomplicate the Christian life and life in general. Our daughter wrote a little booklet.

What was it called again? How mothers can feel productive. So she struggled a lot with that when she had kids because she's very much a go-getter. Changing diapers every day. But then she really realized through deep thinking that every single moment of her life, really she's called to do what God wants her to do at that moment. So when she's changing a diaper, that's God's calling for her at that moment to live for the glory of God.

And when you can live your whole life that way, I say the same thing to my theological students. Every day you get up, you've got a pile of things you're must do, you've got a pile of things you should do that you hope you can get to, and then you've got a pile of things you like to do. But I said the secret of living, of really exciting, working life to the glory of God is you learn to love all three piles. Yeah. The must, the shoulds, and the want to do this. And once you learn to love them all, you'll just be excited to work to the glory of God. Yeah, you told me the story the one time about the three brick layers. Oh, yeah. And you

seeing the menial through God's perspective, the first guy says I'm stacking bricks, the second guy says I'm making a living, and then the third guy who's stacking bricks, I'm building a great cathedral for the glory of God. And so I think seeing even these tasks that may be the repetitious ones throughout the day through God's eyes, from a Christian perspective, a biblical worldview is so important. And so really grateful for what you've contributed to this subject. Can I add one more thing? Yeah, please.

In our culture, like our screens, our phones are so powerful. And it's so easy just to set our child in front of a screen. But I just want to warn parents to, it's hard work to be out there playing with your kids or working with your kids and doing things with your kids. It's much easier when you're tired. And it is a tiring occupation to just put them in front of a screen. But it will harm them. It will harm them. because they'll get used to being entertained

and they'll scream when you take it away from them. You're not training them in the right way. So just, I would say no screens, no phone until they're 16 years old and very limited screen use because you're training them in that way and it's not good for them. Yeah, in the book, you kind of lay out some of those principles and the science behind it from a secular perspective.

You know, this isn't just like, hey, we're anti-digital society. It's real science there from, you know, know, university studies on how it affects, I think you call it the white matter in the brain. Yeah. And so it was really interesting even to look at that. So, no, I think there's some really good principles on how you engage that, what the transition looks like. And obviously we live in a sinful and polluted world.

And so part of it's just protection from, of their conscience, keeping them pure and innocent. And then there's other elements that are developmental that are really critical that you touch on as well. Yeah. And one more thing. Work through the resistance and make them work. and the kids will be happy.

They will be happy when you persevere. Sometimes you have to break their will without destroying their will in order to change their will. And then you mentioned this, but at that point they'll have joy, right? Like a rebellious kid is not a happy kid. Nope.

And so obviously there's not a negation of the parental responsibility to walk in the spirit and to not exasperate or provoke their children, like not discredit. any of those realities. But to do this in a loving way, and I think you refer to that again as the loving straight jacket.

But this is so helpful and would commend what you've written on the subject, teach them to work. I'll put the link in the notes if you guys are listening or watching and would encourage you if you're a parent or a future parent or a grandparent to get that book

and to help raise the next generation and just view work from a biblical perspective. So thank you so much. You're welcome. A pleasure. Thank you. About 90,000 hours of your life are spent working.

And if you never learn to think biblically about those hours, whether you're a mom, a CEO, a doctor, a businessman, a lawyer, or a plumber, about 90,000 hours of your life are spent working. And if you never learn to think about those hours biblically, you risk living with a significant spiritual injury. The first thing the Bible tells us about God is that he works and he made you in his image. My new book, Get to Work will help you see your daily grind as God's Good Gift. You can pre-order that book right now wherever books are sold.