Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - What Does "Born Again" Actually Mean? (John 3 Explained)

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

What does it mean to be "born again"? Jesus told the most religious man in all of Israel — a Pharisee, a member of the Sanhedrin, a man of wealth, power, and Scripture — that he still wasn't good enough to enter the kingdom of God. In this episode, we unpack John 3:1–8 and the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus to answer the question that heaven and hell hang on.This episode is brought to you by our ministry partner Accountable2You. Join thousands living in freedom with nothing to hide, and visit https://accountable2you.com/dialin. Use our unique code DIALIN to get 25% off your first year of an Accountable2You Personal or Family PlanIf being religious, knowing the Bible, and obeying God's Word can't get you into heaven — what can? We explore what being "born again" (or born from above) actually means, why regeneration is a miracle of God and not a decision you make, and why this is the dividing line between those who enter glory and those who don't.📖 Scripture: John 3:1–8, Ephesians 2, Isaiah 64:6, Matthew 15:8Topics covered: • Who was Nicodemus and why does it matter? • What does "born again" mean in the Bible? • Can you lose your salvation? • Is faith a gift from God? • What is regeneration? • Signs that you have been born again

One of the most tragic things in life is reaching the apex of religion and then coming to the realization that you have no surety of where you are going when you are dead. Being religious has never got a single person into the kingdom of God. Knowing the Bible has never got a single person into the kingdom of God and being fastidiously obedient to the word of God has never got a single person into the kingdom of God. There's something so critical for us that if you don't understand this or experience this, Jesus says that you will not see the kingdom of God. Over the next couple of weeks, I want to look at this idea that is of critical importance for us in the Bible.

And that is someone here that has been born again. Hank, I got one for you. I'm ready, Johnny. I want like a 30-second take on this because I think it's become a growing trend in the church today. Okay. Women and men sending long voice memos to each other instead of texts. but it's like, what do I do with this? Is it biblical?

This is a good question. These are the hard-hitting questions. This is why people actually tune in week to week. I have a hard and fast rule. If it's over 30 seconds, you gotta call me. Yeah, that's crazy town. And the derivative of this is if I call you and I miss you,

do I leave you a voicemail? I do. Okay. Do you expect me to listen to it? Or do you just expect me to call you back? Well, I don't really leave voicemails that contain like information you need to know. but I will leave a voicemail if it's like

today I called the God I called a God there's only one God I called a guy Todd Todd Smith Todd the guy and I said hey Todd just wanted to say hi I hope you're doing well no reason to call me back well see that's code for like you don't want if you left me that voicemail would be like

Johnny doesn't actually what you're going back to the voice memos yeah if it's got to rain it in yeah and if it's over 30 seconds I don't know what you're doing synthesize there are voice memos being sent in our family that are like six minutes long. Listen, that is a, that is a Zoom.

Yeah. As a clarifier, my mom will send me long voicemails. I feel like she's on to me because she'll now start like dripping in details like three course of the way through and then leave them. And so she knows if I skip it over and mom, I know you're on. I know. I'm on to you. Yeah.

It's one of the things that we really need to bring the scripture to bear on this issue. So where are we going to be in scripture? Speaking of other issues, one of the things that we've talked about and this is the last thing and then we'll jump in. We're going to do a bullet round. whatever what do we call it rapid round rapid fire rapid fire in the next couple weeks kind of like 10 to 15 questions 60 to 120 second that's a minute to two minutes for those who are working on conversions yeah yeah yeah so enter some of those questions in the in the comments below probably will not do a whole episode

on each of those but kind of like hey can i date an unbeliever no you know kind of talk through that type of thing and so to clarify those are from you guys we'd love to address that I will serve as moderator and flip those over to us. So send those over and we'll make sure we get a good repository. But we're actually starting a new series today. We are, yeah. I want, if you have your Bibles listening or watching, over the next couple weeks,

I want to look at this idea that is of critical importance for us in the Bible. And it really unfolds for us in a conversation, this narrative, that I want to explore. Because Heaven and Hell are in the balance. You know, a couple nights ago I was having a conversation with someone regarding eschatology. That's just the biblical view of how the world ends, Sometimes people are from an eschatological framework, premillennial, or a millennial. Pre-trib, post-trib.

R.C. Sproll would be on that side of things. I love and respect them. Listen, we could have differing opinions there, and we're still going to end up in glory. Sometimes they have conversations with people regarding the ongoing function of the Holy Spirit, whether or not the sign gifts are for today or whatnot. There are people that hold to those theological positions that are different than me, and we're going to end up in glory together forever. But the conversation conversation that unfolds for us in John chapter 3, there's something so critical for us that if you don't understand this or experience this, Jesus says that you will not see the kingdom of God, meaning there is only one type of person that ends up in glory with Jesus Christ, and that is someone here that has been born again. Heaven and hell are in the balance here.

And one of the things that we'll see in this conversation is that salvation is not extended to those who go to church, who stay away from big sins, come from a good family, know the truth, but once again, someone who has been born again. And I think this phrase, that term, I'm a born-again believer, has become so common and so cliche, or at least it was in the 90s, that we don't really even consider what this means and why it's so important,

but we have to revisit it because Jesus says, unless this is true of you, you're going to go to hell for all of eternity. You will not see the kingdom of God. Awesome. So it's clearly, you're laying out for us. This is the dividing line. on one who's going to enter the kingdom of heaven and those who aren't.

And you mentioned real briefly, but this isn't for someone who's irreligious or this is actually kind of geared towards the religious, maybe unpack for us. Who's this conversation taking place between? Yeah, we'll look at this conversation that takes place with Jesus and this man, Nicodemus. And he's going to use this idea of being born from above five times in these opening 10 verses in John chapter 3. And it's a conversation that takes place. And I want to kind of immerse herself into the drama, as I say often when I'm

preaching like, hey, there's a real man here in 27 AD or so that comes to Jesus under the cloak of night, walks these limestone streets of Israel, meets Jesus. He has a lot going on for him, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but he has a lot on his mind. And I want to kind of break this down. I wrote some points, which we don't always do in an episode, but I want to just talk about religion's fascination because in order to understand John chapter 3, you have to go back

to the end of John chapter 2 and understand something that takes place. Now, in John chapter 2, Jesus, he sends everyone out of the temple, he clears the temple, he's teaching and preaching, he turns water into wine. And it says in John 223 that many were believing in Jesus, like they were believing in them. But then it says this at the end of John chapter 2 in verse 24. But Jesus on his part was not entrusting, same word, he wasn't believing in them because he knew all men. And because he did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for he himself knew what was in man. So you have this summary. At the end of chapter two, it says many people were believing in Jesus. But Jesus, it says, did not believe in him. What does it show us? Well, it shows us, according to the Bible, that not all belief is saving belief. There are people who have been charmed by Jesus, but never changed by Jesus. And we're going to see this over and over again throughout John's gospel. The Jews are infatuated with Jesus. They were entertained by Jesus. They affirm the power of Jesus. And yet the sad reality of Scripture is they were strangers to him.

They weren't genuinely saved. Now, in order that we would not miss the depths of the blindness that people have to Jesus, the next chapter, John Chapter 3, is going to introduce to us a poster boy of religion that would have been someone who says, yeah, I see everything Jesus is doing, but actually he's totally lost. So it ends chapter 2. And then chapter 3, kind of going to religion's futuristic here, says now, John 3-1, and that's just the Greek word day, which just means they're taking this

thought immediately after saying they believed in Jesus, but Jesus didn't believe in him. It's now going to transfer us into the story that explains that verse that just... Seated it. Yeah, just saying, hey, not everyone here is a Christian. Well, and it's super helpful because I think growing up, I was taught, you know, you need to believe in Jesus. And that's true, and you're going to unpack that here to an extent. But to have an enemic view of what that belief actually means, could be a very important. be incredibly misleading. And again, to your prior point, heaven and hell hangs in the balance.

And so it's God's graciousness that this is presented to us. Versus 23, 24, and 25, John Chapter 2, are immediately followed by John 3. And so I'm leaning forward in my seat. I'm excited to actually unpack what is true belief. Yeah, so just, you know, it talks about in John chapter 3. It says, now there is a man. We're into the story now. There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. Now, we have to strip away everything we know about Pharisees in order to understand the story. Josephus, the famous first century historian, said that around the time of Jesus were 6,000 Pharisees in Israel. They had emerged this group of people called the Pharisees during the Intertestamental period, that is, between Malachi

and Matthew, to combat the growing secularization and apostasy in the nation. They were extremely zealous. They were fastidious in their study of the law. To be a Pharisee, that word literally just means to be separate. Bottom line, you do not get any better than this man, Nicodemus. Hey, folks, one of the things that I've said often, and Harry often says this to me, is accountability is the friend of integrity.

We live in a pornographic world, and it's really important. It's critical that we have different systems of accountability set up in our own life so that we would be able to honor the Lord with what we look at with our eyes. Personally speaking, I use accountable to you as a software

and have different partners that keep me accountable. They can see what I'm looking at if anything raises a flag. And I want that because I do want to honor the Lord with whatever I consume on my devices. I would encourage you if you don't have some sort of an accountability to check out accountable to you. If you use our code dial in, that'll waive 25% off your first year of your subscription. You can check out more information about accountable to you on their website, accountable to you. dot com slash dial in. Romans 1314 is really clear.

Make no provision for the flesh. And as a man that wants to honor the Lord and you may be a man or a woman or an old man. man or an old woman it wants to honor the Lord, I would encourage you to get this accountability in your life so that you would be able to honor the Lord with what you look at on your devices. Let me just give you seven features briefly of this type of a guy. He would have been someone that was educated, trained and taught in the scripture. You know, I catechized my kids a little bit. Hey, who made the world, God? And I'm, you know, I'm getting super proud of them. You know, what is the chief joy of me? Yeah. To enjoy God, you know, and glorifying him forever.

Now, I get proud of that. But by the time of a kid growing up, in this environment was 10. He would have had the entire Pentateuch. That's the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deeronomy, just memorized, dialed. So they were educated, they were well trained, and their entire life from that moment on as a little kid

would have been drawing deeply from the wells of Scripture. He was educated in the Bible. Not only that, he would have been, secondly intellectual. This man, Nicodemus, he would have not only been a Bible nerd, but just a philosophical scholar. He was a bright mind. Third, he would have been devoted.

I've already mentioned that Nicodemus would have been educated, that he would have been intelligent. But his life as a Pharisee would have been marked by devotion to God. He was serious about obeying and honoring the Word of God. And Pharisees were so intent on not violating the law that like on a Sunday or on the Sabbath, for instance, they would not look in the mirror because if they saw a gray hair in their beard, they would be tempted to pluck it, thus violating, not working on the Sabbath. with, you know, they would carry something up to a certain weight, like the weight of a fig, but not anything beyond that because they were so concerned about dishonoring and disobeying God.

Every single morning, Nicodemus, this man would have been in the word. He would have been praying hours a day. We live in a world where our habits and schedules and wallets often contradict the claim that we belong to God. but to a Pharisee, they were zealously committed to God in every area of their life. Not only this, but Nicodemus was likely wealthy. There are a handful of people named Nicodemus around this time, according to history, and they would have belonged to the Gurian family. And according to history, Josephus talks about this, and Bachman does as well,

that the Gurian family was a very wealthy and prestigious family. They were military heroes. and because they were so heroic, they were given land and privilege by the nation of Israel. And so they were wealthy, and then they would have as good citizens, as Pharisees, been very generous with that wealth. This is a man who was powerful.

And because he was powerful, he was fifth, influential. It says here that there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, and then it adds this descriptor, a ruler of the Jews. That means that he was a member of the Sanhedron. 6,000 Pharisees, but then there's a Sanhedron, which is a group of 71 men that formed the highest legislative body in Judaism. They would have kind of served over trials, investigated false teaching, inscribed laws, and served as the liaison between the nation of Israel and the Roman Empire.

I mean, this is very, very top-notch leadership. Of those set apart, this is the group that's set apart from those set apart. Yeah, so there's the 6,000, then there's the 71. So Nicodemus would have been 6, very respected. And I don't think we grasp the gravity of this and even going along with what you say. All Pharisees were teachers. Everybody in the Sanhedron would have been a teacher, the 71.

But Jesus says in John 310, are you the teacher of Israel? The teacher, not a teacher. Jesus calls him definitive article, the teacher of Israel, which means you are entering a conversation that Jesus has with the most respected, prestigious, prominent, wealthy,

influential and respected man in all of Israel. This is the type of guy that would walk down the street and you would just want a moment with him. Nicodemus, come to my daughter's wedding. Nicodemus, pray for my child. Nicodemus, Nicodemus, Nicodemus, Nicodemus. He's all of these things. If you took together, you know, combined the biblical influence

of Charles Spurgeon and the political weight of Winston Churchill and put that into one person who's Nicodemus, powerful man. And yet, not only is, He educated and intellectual and devoted and wealthy and influential and respected. There's one other thing about this man. He is very, very, very anxious. Well, and maybe even before we dive in more, you've brought this point to the forefront.

And I just want to double click for a moment on the implication then is for those who are listening to this. Again, you mention it quickly at the beginning. But like we need to abandon our Sunday school cartoon version or felt board version of the Pharisee. And the message that we're about to listen into then, if you put your place in the seat from the implication perspective, it's that this is for the tithers, for the people sitting in the pews, for the people who want all the sword drills, that's an invoked to God. A hundred percent. And so it's super easy to dismiss that. Yeah, we'll talk about this as if it's someone else. A hundred percent.

But this is, there's an extent to which I almost want to challenge, like, the more you think this doesn't apply to you, the more uneasy that description of doing. Nicodemus should make you as we lean in. Yeah, and Nicodemus comes to Jesus. He's anxious because one of the most tragic things in life is reaching the apex of religion and then coming to the realization that you have no surety of where you are going when you are dead.

Nicodemus, just understanding this is important. He knows every answer, but he does not know God. He can confidently tell you and teach you about the kingdom of God, but he doesn't know if he is a member of it. He's religiously devoted. He's respected. He's generous.

He's kind. Well thought of by those in the community of faith. And yet, there is this lurking suspicion in his heart. Do I really know God? Will I be safe in the judgment? Why is he nervous? Well, because religion is an outside system. And God looks at the heart.

And Jesus has, he's going to tell the Pharisees multiple times throughout the gospels that it's all this external facades, these accoutrements of religion, these dressings, these trappings. And he looks at the heart. That's why Matthew 158, Jesus says, these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And Nicodemus is beginning to recognize this.

And because he recognizes this, he is anxious. It is very, very troubling to affirm the reality of both heaven and hell and not know which one you are heading to. So that's religion's futuristic. But third here, I want to look at just religion's flattery, because it says that this man, verse two, comes to Jesus by night and says to him, rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher,

for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. So he comes respectfully to Jesus. And just a side note there, you can be respectful to Jesus and think highly of Jesus and be a total stranger to Jesus. He calls him rabbi. Now this is interesting. Nicodemus would have been called rabbi his entire adult life.

He is likely an old man here, if he's the teacher in Israel, a member of the Sanhedron, and he is talking to a 30-year-old Galilean carpenter, and he calls him teacher. So he's respectful, and he says we know that you must come from God. And he's speaking third person plural, probably on behalf of the Pharisees or the Sanhedron. That was the most hostile group of people towards Jesus. And yet he says, okay, listen, teacher.

And he's coming respectfully. He calls him teacher. He says that we know that you must come from God. Everybody recognized that what Jesus was doing was not normal. Yeah. I think sometimes we read the Bible and we're like, oh, miracles were happening all the time. No, miracles were as abnormal to first century Jews as they would be for us today. That's why they were called signs because it was like, hey, who else can do this but God?

Totally. Sometimes you get this idea of like miracles everywhere in the Bible. No, only during seasons at which God was prescribing revelation. So he says we see these signs and then it says here that we know that you have come from God as a teacher for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. Nicodemus says there's something out of the ordinary about Jesus. And he says, I know God is with you. And I want to get to Jesus' answer in a minute or really just his response. But Nicodemus is respectful.

He's religious. He's kind. Seems to be humble here. And it's really important that we understand how Jesus responds. Yeah. Well, and you're going to, I almost don't even want to interrupt because I want to get to Jesus' response. But it is striking.

I'm just thinking hosting calls are really important conversations. Sometimes it's really important how you frame the conversation because often the way you frame the conversation dictates the way the conversation is going to go. So Nicodemus is approaching it one way. But to your point, Jesus is about to disrupt that framing. And he responds, and we'll look at just religion's futility here. Jesus responds in verse 3 and says, it says Jesus answered it and said to him. And it's funny because he's not answering a question.

There was no question in verse two. There's no question being asked by Nicodemus. But Jesus says, truly, truly, just pause there for a moment. Jesus will say this 25 times throughout John's Gospel. Verily, verily, verily or amen, amen, truly, truly. What he's about to say is of utmost importance whenever he says truly, truly. So if you're disengaging, if you're lacking attention, then you really need to dial into what Jesus says here.

He says, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Now, what is Jesus telling Nicodemus? He's saying, Nicodemus, you're not yet in the kingdom of God. Everything that you have built your hope and your trust on is worthless as it relates to your standing before God. All of your education, all of your intellect, all of your devotion, all of your generosity, all of your influence,

all of your prominence, all of your notoriety, cannot earn you one iota of favor with God. And in spite of all of his religious, economic, political, and familial achievements. Nicodemus has a great need. He is lost. According to Jesus, this is important. Being religious has never got a single person into the kingdom of God. Being a member of a respected family has never got a single person into the kingdom of God. Knowing the Bible has never got a single person into the kingdom of God. And being fastidiously obedient to the Word of God has never got a single person into the kingdom of God.

And that's why Jesus says, unless you are born again, you will not see the kingdom of God. And this would have rocked Nicodemus' world. Well, and it rocks, I feel like, our world today. And that is a shocking statement to make. But it also relates to, you think about the demons and Satan

who know all the answers better than we could ever imagine or hope to know, or these other cross-references we might look at in future episodes, but people doing things in the name of the Lord and actually accomplishing from the outside looking in, like they're having real influence. And yet Jesus seems to be poking core here. The heart is totally separate maybe from those outside ways in which the world looks at it. And yet Nicodemus's heart is in no way safe in front of Jesus in the kingdom of God.

Yeah, and this is where we just kind of look at this reality that to be reborn is an absolute necessity. There are different gospel, you know, Jesus preaches different ways to different people, but there are no other types of people in heaven than someone who has been born again. When Jesus uses that word unless, that denotes a necessary condition. Unless you take this medicine, you will not get better. Unless you put gas in the car, I will not drive. Unless you ask this girl out on a date, she will not date you. You know, you just, that's a sine qua known. It is an absolute necessity. And Jesus says, unless you are born again, you will not go to heaven, you will go to hell. And the Greek here is that we have to be born from above or born again. It's a really important thing,

and we're going to talk about this more on the episodes to come. But the main idea here is he's telling this religious man, you do not advance into the kingdom of God. Even a man like Nicodemus, Jesus is telling him that in order to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, entered the kingdom of God, you don't need to turn over a new leaf. You need a new birth. Now, we'll just kind of tease this out for a moment. Why is this the case? Well, the Bible says in Ephesians, too, that we are born dead and sin. And if we are born dead and sin, then by logic, we need to be born what? Again, right? We have to be born again because we're born dead and sin. And Jesus is, if we just followed this logical deduction, Hank, what contribution

did you make to your physical birth? None. Nothing. Did you consult your parents? No. No. Did you determine your birthday? No. No. The main idea here is the doors of the kingdom of God are open to one type of person. The person that abandons any sort of attempt to earn their way to God and understands that salvation is a work of God. The one who, like Nicodemus, looks to their pedigree, their experience, their devotion, and thinks that it merits some sort of a dripping of God's grace and love, doesn't understand the first rung of, the latter as it relates to salvation. Isaiah 64, 6 is a verse that would have been applicable to Nicodemus. All of our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God. Entering the kingdom of God, it's not a reformation of our behavior. It's a regeneration of the heart. And I want to talk about

that word regeneration, because sometimes it's used synonymously with being born again. Regeneration. We'll talk about this more in the next episode. That's when God takes our heart of stone and turns it into a heart of flesh. But that word for regeneration is used in Matthew, when it says that God is going to take this universe and renew it, that is the Greek word paligenesia, it means that he is going to transform this universe and take what it is and totally radically transform it into something else. That's what the scripture says God has to do with our heart. God doesn't come and give us a clean slate. He transforms that same power, that supernatural authority by which God will one day transform the universe

is what God has to do in a heart that in order for that heart, for that individual, to see the kingdom of God, that is a miracle. That's a miracle. So when Jesus is talking about salvation with the most respected and religious man,

he's making it clear that this is not something you produce your salvation. It is something that is done to you by God. And if this is true for someone of Nicodemus' caliber, it is true for everyone else. And even, you know, we'll talk about faith and where this all comes into play. Well, I thought we had to believe. And a lot of these questions are answered in the same chapter, John 316,

for God's love the world that he gave his only begun Sunday. Whoever believes in him will get there shall not perish. But even that faith, it says it's a gift from God so that we would not be able to boast. And Nicodemus was clinging to something that he would be able to boast in, right? And that's what Jesus is here to demolish. There's so many analogies. We've talked about them in prior episodes. And I don't want to recount them here, but it's just, it's, it's a complete inversion of kind of everything you are tempted to think about the way in which the world operates.

Like I'm ready for the, okay, so application, three points in what do I need to do or what do I need to change or these are the ways I'm going to get better. And your point is, it's just so primary. We need to remove all that and that it's something done to you. It's a complete gift that's received. It's a miracle. And it's a miracle. It's so easy to think. Like, it's a miracle on par with we hear feeding of the 5,000 or what Jesus has already done, water into wine.

And it's like, no, no, no. Those are, in many ways. Signs that authenticated this type of thing. And those are minor miracles compared to the miracle of making my dead heart new again. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's so critical because if you were to ask the question, again, and I don't want to overstate this. for like, you know, to be redundant, but I think it's worth clarifying.

Who will enter the kingdom of God without being born again? What's the answer? No one. No one ever. And so we've got to understand what this means. And if you are a genuine believer, you have to have at least the seedlings

of an understanding of this, or two, been the recipient of this experience, being that God's changed you. He's given you new life. He's changed your heart. And we're going to talk about this more, you might be asking like, well, I don't remember the day that I was born again. And I remember this used to really hold me up because you talk about it being a miracle.

And then you're like, well, you would remember the miracle. I mean, it's convicting for me. I prayed the prayer when I was a little boy with my mom. But I can't recount the specific day. And even praying the prayer, I don't have a, I don't actually have like a locked in a counter testimony written down. Yeah. You know, sometimes people say, I don't know if I was saved because I don't remember the day I was saved. And that would, you know, personally, I don't remember the day I was saved.

I don't remember. I also don't remember my physical birth. But how do I know that I was physically born? Well, because there are signs of life. How do I know that I was spiritually reborn? Because there are signs of life. I don't have to remember the exact moment in time for that to be something that I trust happened in the past.

And so, and neither do you. But we'll just leave it here. Verse four, Nicodemus responds to this statement from Jesus. And Nicodemus said to him, how can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he? Big idea here.

Is the smartest, most religious man in Israel doesn't understand what Jesus is saying. Why? Because religion aligns people into thinking that they have to do something for God in order to get God to love them. And this concept of, listen, Nicodine, is you bring nothing to the table. You need to be the recipient of the mercy and power of God

is something that doesn't compute with someone who has spent their entire life trying to earn God's favor. And this is the way the religious system operated then. It's the way that it operates now. And this is why I think at this juncture in the church today, we have to revisit a doctrine of rebirth that is very rampant in scripture and yet largely misunderstood or neglected today.

Well, I'm just two observations for, if I'm listening to this fresh, either one, that's a new message to me that actually I haven't heard before or maybe I've heard but I'm hearing it for the first time. And that would be an encouragement to you of like lay hold the gospel and we're going to unpack. There's many applications and things to be built upon that foundational truth. And then the second, maybe for those who'd say, I actually do believe this. Like, I have received and God has regenerated my heart. It's a calibrating reminder for me as I think about sharing the gospel. It transforms the way you view sharing the gospel because you are totally reliant on a miracle power of God. Absolutely. Yeah, so important. And I think just even one thing regarding

the thought in this different episode for a different time. Can you lose your salvation? That would be like saying someone who has been born again can be unborn again, which would be a logical contradiction and a contradiction of the scripture. Because you didn't do anything in the first place. Yeah, you didn't do anything in the first place? Do you want to share maybe two seconds where we're going from here? Yeah, so just we're going to pick it up in the story and just understand how Jesus continues to explain this. And then people might be asking the question a little bit about human responsibility. And that is often throughout the scripture, not only in the same Bible, not only in the same book, not only in the same chapter, but often juxtaposed by following verses. And so we have to tether those things together

and hold those realities and tension. But this is what Jesus says has to take place. And again, I would just tell you, if you're listening or watching, in order for you to see the kingdom of God, you have to be born again. And that means that you have been the recipient of a miracle of God. And as we look elsewhere in the scripture, the fruits of the spirit that he's changed and transformed you are we'll get evidence. It's not the root of our salvation. It's the fruit of our salvation. that show, okay, God has taken my heart of stone, and he has transformed it into a heart of flesh. And it says in Ezekiel, that longs to know me.

And we'll talk about that more, those evidences in the future. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you for taking this time to unpack it, and don't send me any five-minute voice memos in the meantime. Well, thanks, Hank. I see you, man.