Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Whatever You Do: Pillars of the Christian Work Ethic

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

What does the Bible actually say about your 9-to-5? In this episode, Jonny Ardavanis and Hank Bowen dig into the theology of work—why the curse of Genesis 3 made labor hard, and how believers are called to work with enthusiasm, enjoyment, excellence, integrity, and gratitude, no matter the job.📖 Pre-order Jonny Ardavanis's new book Get to Work: Seeing Your Daily Grind as God’s Good Gift here: https://a.co/d/0aFMdjNpYou'll learn:• Why work was designed to be an act of worship (not just a paycheck)• The three consequences of the Fall on our relationship to work• How to find joy in a job that feels mundane or difficult• Why grumbling and complaining undermines your gospel witness• What it means to "work as unto the Lord" — even for a bad bossWhether you're a stay-at-home mom, a CEO, a mechanic, or a student working part-time, this conversation will reshape how you think about vocation, calling, and Christian work ethic.🙏 This episode is brought to you by The Master's University — committed to Jesus Christ and the authority and sufficiency of His Word. Learn more at masters.eduStay accountable in a digital world: check out Accountable2You at accountable2you.com/dialin — use code DIALIN for 25% off your first year.#ChristianWorkEthic #TheologyOfWork #FaithAndWork #ChristianLiving #BiblicalWorldview #WorkAsWorship #DialInMinistries"

Who teaches you shapes how you'll pastor? And at Southern Seminary, you'll be taught by faculty who have written books, led in churches, and trained thousands of ministers to serve with both conviction and clarity. These faculty members at Southern Seminary are pastors and missionaries and counselors who take your calling as seriously as you do, and they'll form you to strengthen the church for a lifetime of ministry. It's an education that can be trusted for truth.

You can prepare for your calling at sbts.edu forward slash m div. It should be your objective to bless your boss. You might have like a competition with your boss. You may think your boss stinks. You may think he's unfair. But when Paul's instructing slaves, he says, render good service to them as to the Lord. Don't pretend to work hard when your boss is watching.

And the second he leaves, you pull out your phone and you begin to scroll social media. I think Tim Cholley says, your boss may be fooled, but God is not. And that's super countercultural because if there's not something for me in the end, I'm going to do the bare minimum. And the Bible says, no, work for that guy as if you're working for the Lord. And if you don't get rewarded in this life, you'll be rewarded in the next. Hey, everybody, welcome to Dialin Ministries. This episode is brought to you by the Master's University. If you or someone in your life is looking to continue higher education, I would recommend the Master's University,

which is an institution committed to Christ in scripture. you can use our unique code dial in to waive the application fee. Hank, Mr. Bowen, how you doing? Mr. Bowen is my father. I'm doing great. How are you doing, Johnny? Well, I'm ready for it to cool down here. Hey, this is my first episode I've recorded as a father to a son.

Johnny, I can tell. Just the way you walked in today, you were just, you were gleaming. I am pumped. That has nothing to do with the fact that it's fall in Middle Tennessee, but it's still 105 degrees outside. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait to have Lord willing, a few more. Well, we've got a couple of things.

we need to go through. First of all, we're picking up back in our series on the series of work. This is a part of a broader series we're doing with your upcoming book, Get to Work, which you can order now. Before we dive in, it is helpful if someone likes, comments and subscribes. And as you comment, Johnny, per kind of the episode we're going to record today, I would love to hear from the folks who are listening, what is taking up the majority of your time today? That's a diplomatic way of saying, what do you do for work? What's your vocation? Well, I was going to say vocation, but then people will be like, I'm a homemaker. No, no, no. I want to see that in the comments section. Oh, yeah. Well, that is a calling. Absolutely. We'll talk about that more. But if you're- Plummer, CEO. Oh, yeah. Investor relations

for a private asset management for me. By the way, that's what Hank's job is. Tell people what you do real quick. I mean, I lead investor relations for an alternative private equity management. And two years ago, roughly, I said, hey, do you want to try doing dial in with me? And here we are. We're sitting at our dinner room table, and now we're sitting in a tiny closet. Come on. Come on. But, hey, we're jumping into the middle part of. the series. So if you want to go back and look at the prior two episodes, in the first episode, you helped us kind of unpack first who God is as a worker. A lot more to be said on that topic. On the second episode, we looked more in depth about how we're made in his image and as his image

bears were called to work. But I think practically, going back over those prior two episodes, it's easy for people to maybe feel like this is high, lofty calling. We're called to rule and to be co-labors with God's work, sometimes it can feel a little divorced from the practical reality of hopping in a truck and driving 40 minutes on I-65 in the morning. So to bring it a lot closer to personal. Yeah, that was really personal. But Johnny, where are we going to go today? And can we talk a little bit about maybe how this all, how our view of work and vocation relates to kind of a post-fall reality that we operate in today? Yeah, absolutely. I think just to back up for a moment, One verse in scripture I just generally love is 2 Peter 1 3.

It says that God has granted us basically everything we need pertaining to life and godliness. What that means is that the Bible doesn't just tell us how to have our morning devotion. It teaches and trains and instructs us and how we are to operate as a business owner and investor relations, a mom of toddlers at home, a bus boy at a restaurant, whatever you may be doing. But sadly, and I think this is why it's worth addressing, there is what David Miller refers to as a son. Monday Monday gap in the church today where maybe the teaching on Sunday has little to no relevance on what someone does in their nine to five. Obviously they do it like ethically, but like beyond that, like how are we to think about work from a biblical perspective? And you mentioned it already. Over the last

couple of weeks, we have established that God is a worker. The first sentence and the first two chapters of the Bible describe a God who is an artist and doesn't just make a functional world. He makes a beautiful one. Every tree and every forest, every star in the sky. every fish in the ocean testifies to God's handiwork and his commitment to excellence. And we are his image bears and we are to imitate that God. And as you said, we've been given this assignment to rule, which is, it's epic, right? Like that's, it is. It's an epic type of way of thinking about why God made us.

But maybe as you've been listening to the first couple episodes or watching, you've had this lurking thought in the back of your mind that God's design for work is, divorced, as you said, from our experience. Maybe you have this, you want to just type in. Johnny, this feels fairly utopian to me. We're not in Eden anymore. I don't feel like a king or queen or that I'm ruling with a level of regality when I clock into my shift at Bojangles or Panda Express or whatever it may be.

And again, as we talk about work here, we're talking about whatever it is you do. That is your station in life right now. Again, moms, CEOs, plumbers. And I'm so grateful that when we look to God's word, the Bible's view of work is utterly realistic, and it acknowledges the difficulty, dishonesty, and the thorns and thistles of working in a fallen world. Well, and I want to jump in right there because you briefly hinted at, but that's actually such a critical point to this broader episode, is that this isn't just for folks who have a high view of work and a high view of calling.

They know their vocation and they feel like kind of they're operating in their core area of competence. Yeah, like I found what I'm supposed to. Totally. but I'm thinking back for like when I was a student and working part-time or even the first many years into your career, at times it can feel like, man, I don't know if this is actually what I want to be doing for the rest of my life. But the principles and the truths we're going to take the time to explore today speak every bit as much to that part of your context than the CEO who's 20 years into his career and feeling like is crushing it. For sure. Now, as you come to the third page of Scripture, we see the reason and the cause for all of the darkness and the frustration and the futility of our labor in this life.

And you may know the story, but Adam's sin, the serpent tempts Eve and Adam and Adam eats of the fruit and ushers in the curse of sin and death. And there are three primary consequences of the fall. First of all, man's relationship with God is affected. They are driven east of Eden away from the presence of God. Secondly, man's relationship with man is affected. Like Eve is going to desire for Adam, and God says your desire is going to be for your husband, but he's going to rule over you. There's now going to be a level of friction amongst humanity.

In the family. Yeah, so your relationship with God is affected, man's relationship with man is affected. But then third, there is a third primary consequence of the fall, And it's that man's relationship to his work is going to be affected. Do you have Genesis 3? Yeah. Would you read 17 through 19? Absolutely.

And it says, then to Adam, he said, because you have listened to the voice of your wife and you've eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying you shall not eat from it. Curse it is the ground because of you. In pain, you will eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles, it shall grow for you, and you shall eat the plants of the field.

By the sweat of your face, you will eat bread until you return to the ground, because from it you were taken, for you are dust and to dust, shall return. One pastor says, the curse goes for the jugular. And I like that. And then he asked the question, do you find the two great tasks in life love and work to be excruciatingly hard? And that's the reality. Work is now difficult in a fallen world. And I go into much greater detail on this in the book. But in a fallen world, work becomes an idol. It can feel mundane. It can feel

menial. It can feel futile. The landscape of our work can even be oppressive. And furthermore, it can be a crushing and corrupting basis to establish our identity because now we are fallen creatures in a fallen world. Regarding that, you know, in a fallen world, work becomes this artificial place to build an identity. Yeah, exactly. Madonna one time said, I have an iron will and all of my will has always been to conquer some horrible feeling of inadequacy. I push past one spell of it and discover myself as a special human being. And then I get to another stage and think I'm mediocre and uninteresting again and again. My drive in life is from this horrible fear of being mediocre, although that's always pushing me, pushing me,

because even though I've become somebody, I still have to prove I'm somebody, my struggle has never ended and it probably never will. So now in a fallen world, we try to establish our identity and what we do. And to be fair, many of the people in the Bible, many of the characters in the Bible are identified by what they do. Abraham was a, you know, this,

and David was a shepherd and so forth. Like you see that all throughout the scripture. But when we establish our identity in our work, the money we earn, the accolades we receive, the athletic achievements or the academic prowess of our children. Our lives are set on a very fragile and unfulfilling course. And we see even that identity, you know, as the central thing. What we do is who we are in Genesis 11 when they want to build a tower, the Tower of Babel. And the motivation for that is so that we can make a name for ourselves. So in a fallen world, work becomes potentially this thing that we do to establish who we are. Yeah, so it's a corrupted rule.

There's more to be said there. I just want to make the observation. That's a refreshingly honest quote from Madonna. And just thinking through, like, this is Madonna. Madonna has had more critically acclaimed world success than I will ever have. I'm no Madonna. Well, plot twist, I'm no Madonna. But seriously, to think that, I think part of it can feel like, it can feel isolating,

to think I'm not having the success in my career ambitions as much as I would like to be. or you compare yourself against the people around you, feeling like, man, they're really moving things forward to the kingdom of God and clearly using their gifting for such an amazing outcome. And then you hear from someone, for all intents and purposes, at the top of the pyramid, and they're saying, I'm as unfulfilled as you are, so to speak. For sure, yeah.

And Solomon talks about this at length. I front of the book of Ecclesiastes. You can arrive at that, what you thought was the ultimate. And then Solomon comes and reaches that apex and says, it's chasing after the wind. It's elusive. I grabbed what I thought was going to bring me satisfaction of fulfillment, and then I opened my fist, and I'm more empty than when I began my journey.

Psalm 119 reads, How can a young man keep his way pure by keeping it according to your word? One of the priorities of a person pursuing purity is the Word of God. I've said it before, and I've written this for myself, that if God's Word is not my priority, neither is my purity. Now, in addition to a love for the Word of God and a dependence upon the Spirit of God, One of the practical strategies for pursuing purity in a world that is littered with impurity

is having some form of digital accountability. You have access, I have access by just the devices we have as an orative element in our life to all sorts of sin. And I want accountability in my life. And so we've partnered up with accountable to you. And I've been using this software for the last several years and been so blessed by it. The other people on our team use it as well. And I want to recommend it to you.

You can use our unique code. dial in to get 25% off the first year for your personal or family plan. And you can check out more information at accountable to you.com forward slash dial in. Now into a world that is this, like fallen like this, the Bible speaks. It tells us how we're to work as fallen creatures in a fallen world. And we're not just permitted to throw up our hands and say, oh, we're under a curse, right? There is divine instruction in God's word to answer the question, how should a believer work? in a world such as this.

And I mention all of the different effects of the fall because the Bible is realistic. The majority of the Bible is post-Genesis. And with that context in mind, all of the instruction we're going to give is not like a fairyland, it's not like a fairyland. You know, like it's real. So what instruction is God's word

provide for us regarding our work? First of all, we work with a new perspective. Going back to what we've already covered in our previous episodes, work is not primarily a means to an end. or a bare necessity for financial remuneration, it is a way we mirror and mimic God. And we have to go back and think about our work

with the understanding that there was labor before there were paychecks. So Paul does say, he who does not work shall not eat, but labor isn't just so we can eat. And if we go back to the garden, when God put Adam in the garden in Genesis chapter 2, he put him there to work it.

And that word for work in Genesis 2 is Abod. It can also be translated worship. So when God put Adam to tend the garden, to cultivate the ground, to till the land, that itself was an act of worship. And I think this perspective that what we do, our day-to-day labor, is not something that's distinct from our worship. It is a critical component of how we worship God. And so the believer, even in a fallen world, is to acknowledge that tilling the ground, changing diapers, is an act of worship if it is done unto the Lord. Well, and that is such a countercultural view if you're hearing that for the first time. The fact that your work actually can be worship is almost worthy of an entirely separate episode.

But if we keep going here, keep building on that. So it's not just only building a paycheck, but keep rolling. Yeah, and I think everything goes back to your perspective on work. So a believer works with a new perspective that, okay, this is what God has made me to do. And yes, I live in work in a fallen world, but work is still worship. Joe Beakey one time told me the story of three stone masons. that were engaged in their vocation, and they were stacking bricks for a great cathedral.

And a visitor walked up to the first stone mason and said, what are you doing? And he said, I am cutting stone. And then the visitor went up to a second stone mason and said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm making a living. And then he went up to the third stone mason and asked, what are you doing?

And he said, me, I'm building a cathedral for God and for his people. And I like the story because a third mason's perspective sees work not just as a practical necessity, but as a sacred purpose. purpose, and even though he's doing something menial and mundane from the world's perspective, because of the way he views his work, it transforms daily labor into something that is transcendent. And why that's so important is all three of them answered honestly.

All three of those are true. And when I'm thinking through this, like specific people are coming to my mind. My parents were far from perfect, but one thing they, I feel like, passed along really well, was a high view of work. Sue is close to perfect. Sue is fully sanctified. No, but truly, they did pass along a really high view of work. And then when I got to high school, I started to meet friends.

I met friends who did not have the same view of work. And it stuck out to me that this was the difference, was they had been raised in a household where their view of work was purely, you bring home a paycheck and you tolerate just the oppressive, mundane monotony of an existence. And the encouragement, I guess, to everyone listening is your family can be helpful and influential in forming that view, but it's a prospectival shift that the Lord can break through at any given time. Kudos on prospectival.

Yeah, you're welcome. Come on. Back to it. It's true that every job is sacred if it is done unto the Lord. And there is a wrong idea that because I preach in a pulpit or we're talking about God in the Bible and theology on a podcast and what we're doing here is sacred, but when you do your job as an investor relations strategist? Sure.

I'm doing some strategy. That that's not sacred. Totally. And then furthermore, oh, because Hanks in business, the only way that you honor God in your vocation is by giving some of the money away, you know, in your tith. But no, what you do throughout your week as an investor relations strategist is an act of worship in of itself. So there's a new perspective. Secondly, there's a new identity, and we'll be brief here. Second Corinthians 517, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.

So because we are in Christ as believers, our work is no longer something we do, to establish our social scorecard. Now, I understand that in the church, even sometimes there's this flexing of like, how successful are you, how successful am I? But ultimately, we are in Christ. We've been blood bought and adopted by God. And therefore, we work not to earn our favor with God,

but we work in a way that reflects our gratitude that we have received favor because we are in Christ. And so our identity is not wrapped up in our production, our output, or the recognition that we receive. Yeah, God is said simply, God isn't impressed with the company that is a man who owns the mechanic shop or the mechanic any differently, although their balance sheet might be wildly different. For sure. There's a new motivation.

And this would be third. So there's new perspective, new identity, new motivation. In a moment, we're going to talk about how the believer works with excellence. And on the surface, that's not an entirely unique, you know, thing to a Christian, meaning like Larry Bird. Excellent, right? Tiger Woods, excellent. So what's the difference in the believer's motivation to work with excellence? Well, it's ultimately because God calls us to imitate him.

And then also our work is a way in which we love our neighbor. Like those are the two greatest commandments. To love the Lord you're God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then the second is to love your neighbor. Now, how do you practically love your neighbor? Well, if you're a builder of homes, how are you loving your neighbor? Building excellent homes. Building awesome homes.

If you're a baker, how do you love your neighbor? Making the best sourdough. Exactly. Making the best sourdough or carrot cake, whatever it may be. So often the first question that's out of someone's mouth as it relates to work is what's in it for me. That's not saying that profit is bad. It's on the contrary. It's a good thing.

But the believer isn't exclusively working for me, myself, and I. No, they're also working for the benefit of the people around them, even people they may not know. And I like what one pastor says. He says, a job is only a vocation if you do it with others and my. and not just yourself. Okay, so we're thinking about honoring God. That's our motivation. We want to imitate God,

and then we're also wanting to bless and love our neighbors. And this is ultimately, like, if you want to reach the world around you and you're a mechanic, one of the platforms of your silent witness is, what, being an awesome, honest mechanic. Totally. So, okay, so how do we work?

And I just want to go through a series of how a believer should live and work in this world. How does it show? up materially in your day-to-day? Yeah. First, you work with enthusiasm. Colossians 323, Paul told the Corinthians, or the Colossians, whatever you do, so again, whatever it is you're doing, mom, busboy, student, mechanical engineer, pilot, whatever you're doing, work heartily.

As for the Lord and not for men, Ecclesiases 9-10, there's a similar idea here. It says, whatever your right hand finds to do, do it with all of your might. Bottom line here, work with some gusto. Kent Hughes tells the story of a conductor of a great symphony orchestra, and he was once asked the question, what is the most difficult instrument to play? And the conductor responded and said, second violin. He says, we can get plenty of first violinist.

But to get someone who will play second violin with enthusiasm, that is a problem. So the question for you is, do you work at a restaurant, Are you a trash man? Are you a lawyer, doctor? Whatever it is you're doing, work with enthusiasm. It doesn't have to be your forever job to honor the Lord with enthusiasm in gusto in the here and now. Again, Colossians 3 says, whatever you do, work heartily. Work with some enthusiasm.

And again, I just want to underscore the point you made earlier. You're not working with enthusiasm because we're trying to earn favor with God. Rather, we're working with enthusiasm as a reflection of how grateful and joyful we are. that he made the sacrifice, fought us back, and that he's placed us in a context in which he's placed us. And it's a freeing reality for me, I'll speak personally, of, finally. It depressurizes actually, you can take your work seriously. You can take your work too seriously.

At the firm I work for, we often say we take our work seriously, we don't take ourselves seriously. And the sincerity in that is when you're working with a mindset of enthusiastic service, it allows you to serve in a very high capacity or low capacity, whatever the situation calls for, because you're fundamentally focused on God and your neighbor as opposed to yourself. Yeah, and so we work with enthusiasm to your point because of what Christ has done for us in the gospel, but also we want to imitate Christ.

Ephesians 5-1, be imitators of God. What does it mean to imitate God? Well, obviously we walk in love and we see that in Ephesians, but we also do what God does. We work, right? Like he made us to represent him. Secondly, we glorify God by working with it. enjoyment. And Clesiastes 2, 24 and 25 says, to find enjoyment, this is man's plight,

to find enjoyment in his toil. This is from the hand of God. I sometimes feel like the water cooler talk of just people in the church can sometimes, people bond over just difficulty, right? And I think there's a place for that. Commiserate. Yeah. But I think it's important for people to have at least a level of balance. And obviously, you're honest about trials and things like that. But, The scripture says we're to find enjoyment in our toil. If you're a mom to find enjoyment in the toil of being a mom, if you're in investor relations, to find enjoyment in that,

I have axiom though. Enjoy what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. And I'd like to tell people that subscribe to that, that if you're looking for a job where no day will ever feel like work, I'm afraid you're going to need to ask Elon Musk to take you to a different planet because every single job has its thorns. Furthermore, I do understand what people mean when they say, enjoy what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. But that is a misleading thing to say to the next generation because it puts work in a negative category.

If you enjoy what you'll do, you'll never have to work. And that makes work seem like it's a bad thing. But that would be a horrible, horrible, horrible way to live. And I remember one time someone told me this, that would be a horrible way to live to never work a day in my life. Why? Because God made me to work. Work is not a bad thing. It's a good thing.

It's a God thing. Don't tell me I don't have to work a day in my life. Enjoy what you do and work hard. And that's the way that the scripture is trying to get us to think. And so maybe the question, if someone's hearing this and being like, I receive that, I want to find enjoyment in my work. But no matter how much I try and do the mental gymnastics of finding joy in my work, I'm constantly robbed of it, what am I supposed to do, Johnny?

How would you respond to that person? Well, I go in the greater detail into that in the book. But ultimately, Solomon talks about like just the hamster, of life like you wake up you do the same thing you you wake up to go to work so you can make food to eat so you can stay alive so you can keep on working so you can eat food to stay alive so you can keep working you know and he's just like like he talks about it's work is cyclical it can be oppressive in chapter four sometimes it's relationally thorny and he gets to the end and he says you know in conclusion fear god and keep his commandments so that the fear of god is the key that

unlocks the door of fulfillment even when what you're doing is menial and mundane so you just see that everything I'm doing, if I'm stacking bricks or changing diapers or balancing budgets is done under the Lord, he's called me here for this purpose. And this is a practical way that I love my neighbor. Like if you're a CPA and you hate doing taxes, you might not want to switch vocations, but you see it as, hey, this is a way that I honor God. This is a way that I practically love my neighbor. Like I'm blessing them by providing a service that is honest and excellent. And so you think about it through that lens. And I think you just have to ask God to, and granted and impress that reality upon your heart.

This was a huge revelation for me personally. And so I just want to put like an exclamation point on. That is a really helpful diagnostic question of if I'm lacking enjoyment and where I work or if I'm habitually finding no joy there, a helpful diagnostic question is, do I have an anemic view of the fear of God? Or am I growing in my fear of God? And that to the extent that we grow in our fear of God

can actually lead to an enjoyment in our work is, I think, something that's not immediately obvious, but to the extent you ponder, reflect, and pray that, that's an incredibly helpful tool. Anyway, we can keep rolling. No, and I think the fear of God also is just is the awe of God. So it's being, you know, wrapped up in who he is. And so you go, hey, this, because God has made this world and he's called me to represent him in it. This is a need. This is a way I'm feeling in, you know, whatever it is you're doing, you're feeling a need or else it wouldn't be a job. And you tie it in the book, I think, if I remember, to is it First Timothy?

that the fear of God leads to the fullness of joy in all things he's given us. It's super helpful. Anyway, let's keep rolling. Yeah, third here, we glorify God by working with enthusiasm, with enjoyment, and then third here with excellence. Dorothy Sayer says that work that is truly Christian is work well done. Genesis 1 describes God's commitment to excellence when it says that God saw everything he had made, and it was very good.

I mean, I love that. You know, God didn't do anything haphazard. Sadly, Christians ought to be the best workers wherever they are. They ought to have the best attitudes, the greatest degree of dependability. Sadly, there is statistically little difference in the work ethics of Christians versus non-Christians. And if this is true, there is much cause for alarm. I know Christian business owners who steer clear of hiring Christians because they waltz

into the workplace more entitled and less motivated than others. And you have to ask the question, how could this be? when you present sloppy work to your boss, you present sloppy work to God, not because your boss is God, but because everything you're doing is to be done as unto the Lord. And for Christians to not work with excellence, that is a sign that our lives are spiritually dysfunctional. Why? Well, because Kent Hughes says, it is impossible to dedicate over half of one's waking hours, some 80,000 to 100,000 hours in an average lifetime, to an inferior biblical work.

ethic and not suffer significant spiritual injury. If you're a young woman and you're looking for a man to marry, please don't marry a lazy one because working with excellence, working with gusto is a birthmark that you have been changed and are being changed by God because the scripture is very clear. You're to work as unto the Lord. And when Paul gives this instruction in the New Testament to work and do your very best, you know, give it your best effort, you know. Who's he talking to? Well, not CEOs and corner offices, slaves, household servants, not people like overlooking the Mediterranean. No, he's talking to people at the lowest rung of society. And he says the same thing to masters, but poor work reflects poorly on the God and whose image we are made. So Paul says,

give it your very, very best. This is one of the reasons I'm so excited for, this book to be read by many people. And I will personally hand this out to a bunch of folks. Because just meeting with, we're in a season of life where I sit down with a lot of young guys. And I would say this was even a mistake I might have fallen prey to earlier in our marriage. I think there's, there's a natural tendency to want to avoid workaholism and what we pointed out earlier of trying to build your entire identity on the false foundation of work. on the flip side, for young Christian men out there and women, but seeing this epidemic personally,

there should be a leaning into hard, productive work for a long time without necessarily the false satisfaction of feeling like, I'm going to have all this artificial fulfillment early. And to the extent that you do that, there's a degree of fulfillment and joy that comes from kind of many years just under the bar, so to speak. But also you've, I think this would be something from the outside looking in. It's easy to see this in like the business context, but it's equally true as a pastor.

Yeah, I think just going along with what you're saying, I remember, you know, if you're just asking, what does this mean for me as a preacher? I remember one time MacArthur asked me, do you want to be a great preacher? And I said, I do. And then he said, work hard. And then he said, Johnny, keep your rump in the chair. And I'll never forget it. You know, just don't get up, you know, sit down. Don't get easily distracted.

And I know, I know as a pastor, obviously, like, I am not just preparing to preach. I do other things at the church, meeting with people, whatever it may be. But I know if I've given each sermon my very best. Like, and so, like, and I want that, that is a, it is a burden, right? Like when Paul tells Timothy, let your progress be made. known to all, like, so that people in a year from now know you've been working at what God has called you to do. Like I read that and go, man, I should be working hard at what God has called me to do, whether it's preaching or investor relations. So we work with excellence

because our work is not ultimately done for our boss, our manager, our CEO. They're all middle management. Our work is done for God. And so I do think about that. Like, the grade that matters is the one God's going to know if I've given something my best. He's gracious and he knows everything else going on in our life, but I know and God knows if I've given something my best. We also, for here, we glorify God by working with integrity. I want to read this section in Ephesion 6. Paul says bond servants at slaves.

Obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling. With a sincere heart as you would Christ. Pause there for a moment. This could refer, you know, be representative of the way that you would treat your boss. He says, obey them with the sincere heart as you would Christ, meaning that raises the game. Not by way of eye service as people pleasers, but as bond servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a goodwill as to the Lord and not to man, which means this. He's talking to slaves here, who may have harsh masters.

He says, you are to work for them rendering goodwill, meaning it should be your objective to bless your boss. You might have like a competition with your boss. You may think your boss stinks. You may think he's unfair. But when Paul's instructing slaves, he says, render good service to them as to the Lord. So work in such a way as you go, whatever lack of kindness they may show you, I'm working for God here. Then he says, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bond servant or is free.

So the impetus for excellence is when we remember that all of our work is done before the eyes of the Lord, And Paul says, don't do it by way of eye service. Don't pretend to work hard when your boss is watching. And the second he leaves, you pull out your phone and you begin to scroll social media. I think Tim Challey says, your boss may be fooled, but God is not. And we are to render good service to them. Paul says, from the heart, meaning we're not faking that. And wherever there's a level of dissonance between what the scripture says and what we're feeling,

we're asking God, align my heart. Help me to want to work in such a way where the company and the boss I work for is blessed. And that's super countercultural because if there's not something for me in the end, I'm going to do the bare minimum. And the Bible says, no, work for that guy as if you're working for the Lord. And if you don't get rewarded in this life, you'll be rewarded in the next. And I'm thinking it's equally true. And I could imagine people in the audience falling on either end of the spectrum of the extreme of for the hyper ambitious person who's doing everything they can for personal recognition. There's the political game people will play within the workplace of trying to get Rick.

They're trying to do the job, but then there's almost a second job of just trying to get recognition for doing the job. And on the flip side, you have the hyper lazy person who's trying to do the bare minimum, but still get recognition for the work being done. And what the Bible seems to be saying is it is irrelevant what your earthly masters are viewing. Or maybe that goes too far because we need to work in a way that brings glory to God. But to your point, we're working before the eyes of the Lord. And it's a challenging, sobering reality to think as if Jesus was standing for my shoulder throughout the entirety of my workday.

Yeah, and you can apply this to the most, again, I know I'm saying this over and over again, mundane of responsibilities. And this doesn't mean you should never start a business if you want to start a business and you know, you have to stay where you're at forever. It does mean, though, that while you're with them, you bless them, you know, it doesn't mean you never change a job necessarily. but you're to seek the benefit of the person that you are employed by. I think fifth and finally here,

a believer is to work gratefully. And I thought through making this just a separate episode because I think it's really countercultural. And I think going back to what I said in the beginning, and I don't want to unnecessarily throw stones. Let me read the text first. Paul says in Philippians, too, a verse that you make kids memorize, right? Do all things without grumbling.

or complaining so that you will prove yourself to be blameless and innocent children of God, above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world. I think, Hank, it is very easy to be a complainer and to disguise that a million different ways. But the platform of our witness to the watching world is that we do all things without grumbling or complaining. And Paul says here, when you do that, he says, do all things without grumbling or complaining, so that you will prove yourself to be children of God. When you grumble and complain, you're doing exactly what the world does.

That's what people do when they work. Here we go again. This boss, this, this boss, this, this boss this. Oh yeah, classic this. Sarcastic remark over here about this. Listen, that's the way the unbelieving world operates. You complain about your boss, you nag on your boss, you nag about this, your employees, your coworkers, you're doing what the world does.

I like what Tim Challey says. When you claim to be a Christian, but you deliver poor quality work laced with grumbling and complaining, you make the gospel look bad, as if it isn't transformative, as if it really hasn't changed you from the inside out. And I think this is really important to think through that, going back to, you know, separate passage, but Paul says in Second Thessalonians that we are to rejoice always. and in everything to give thanks. And I think sometimes people, if they're in maybe a spot they don't love, right?

I mean, to be fair, like, hey, I've had jobs that are hard, right? Like, I've had days that are hard, right? And a job that I love. I don't have a hall pass from this clear command in scripture. And everything give thanks for this is God's will for you in Christ, Jesus. If you want to change the world, right, you can start really small. go about your job, your vocation, your motherhood, and do all things without grumbling and complaining.

Well, and there's a practical application there of if we're spending a huge portion of our lives in work, as you've pointed out that Hughes notes, and we're going to be sharing the gospel in the workplace. You'd imagine some percentage of the times you share the gospel is going to be with people who know your work ethic. And so the question then becomes... In your attitude. 100%. And so then the question is, is your gospel invitation to them or proclamation of the gospel

being bolstered or completely challenged by the work ethic they know to be true about you? Yeah, people should see the way we work and feel compelled to ask, what God do you serve? Right? Especially on a bad day, not just when you're dominating. Like, I think it's easy to say, like, glory to God, seven touchdowns, right? Like, but when you are in a difficult situation and you're in the grind and you do all things that grumbling and complaining and everyone else around you is complaining. That is the way people bond. Like there's nothing more unifying than a common enemy.

Like that's how that's how employees come together. Our boss stinks, right? And you go, no, I'm grateful for them. And, you know, that might be difficult. I'm grateful to be here. I want to work hard instantly, right? there is a platform for you to communicate the God that has changed your life. And so now with all these things in mind in the next couple episodes,

I think Lord Will and what I want to talk through is, if God so highly values the institution of work and he has made us to mimic him, then what naturally then is going to wildly displease him? Laisiness. Lazziness is not just bad because it's not productive. it's bad it's a sin egregious sin because it is a failure to reflect the god in whose image we are made and so i think it's important to have the story of scripture as the context for i think maybe in the next couple episodes we'll talk about laziness and uh just to think through and we'll look at the book

of proverbs but that's what's ahead well i really appreciate you taking the time to unpack it today if you've made it this far you are one of the real ones i want to circle back sincerely i'm going to look for the comments across the various platforms. I'd love to hear what are folks doing? What is their day job? I'm going to be looking for the most eclectic job out there. So please fill it in. But Johnny, thanks for taking the time to unpack this for us today. Thanks, Hank.