Dial In with Jonny Ardavanis - Why God Won't Remove Your Struggle | What Every Christian Needs to Know About Trials and Suffering

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

The 3 Biblical Realities Every Christian Needs to Understand:See Your Trial for What It Is - God's custom training program for your faithSee Yourself for Who You Are - Unfinished work in progressSee God for Who He Is - A Father doing necessary work in difficult circumstancesWhat You'll Actually Learn:Why James tells us to "count it ALL joy" (and what that really means)How trials test both the authenticity and quality of your faithThe difference between trials that refine vs. consequences of bad choicesWhy we need God's wisdom during difficult seasonsHow to work with God's purposes instead of just enduringPaul's approach to finding strength in weakness (2 Corinthians 12)Straight From Experience:This isn't academic theology - it's tested truth from a family dealing with ongoing challenges and the daily choice to trust God when circumstances don't improve.For Anyone Facing Trials:Regardless of your struggle - medical, financial, relational, personal - these biblical principles apply to every type of difficulty. You don't need to be dealing with illness to benefit from this conversation.Perfect for:Anyone currently in a trial of any kindChristians questioning God's purposes in sufferingThose supporting others through difficult seasonsAnyone wanting biblical wisdom for tough timesScripture: James 1:2-8, 2 Corinthians 12:7-10"It's a good God doing good work in a hard place."

Suffering is real and it's actually an inevitable component of the way God refines us Here's what I would say to anybody going through difficulty The reason you count this joy is because you know, I need this and you know that a good God Who's generous with what I need to accomplish his work through the he rules which is my transformation into the image of Christ That's the goal of God. Most normal people are gone, I can't wait to get out of here. I just got to survive until I get out. And I think what God would say is let it have its perfect result.

Stay with it, engage it, don't resign, don't get passive, don't get angry. I like to say it's a good God doing good work in a hard place. Pairing with God Part Two Pairing with God Part Two Perry, well thanks for sitting down.

You know, it says in Job that as surely as sparks fly upward, mankind is born in the trouble. We live in a world of trials and trouble. I've heard you say that if you're not in a trial right now, you soon will be, or you just got out of one. And I want you to maybe just, if you can, share a little bit about your story. And then we wanna walk through three principles

that you've given before on just your outlook and your perspective during trials, but maybe just even why this is a topic or a theme that is near and dear to you because it's relevant to just the Christian life in general. Yeah, I think the context for me is rooted foundationally in the word of God. What we're about to say is because God said it.

But I think there's an added pathos, at least to me, is because I have had to live this because of certain circumstances that have unfolded providentially in my life. And so the kind of the backstory that informs and enriches and strengthens the convictions that are derived from the Bible are rooted in the fact that my son Parker, who is now 29 at the age of 12, kind of at the apex of his capacity, football, motorcycles,

life of the party, personality. Parker went from kind of Mr. Everything to almost Mr. Nothing. He started to fade at the age of 12. He would win the wind sprints, playing football, practice. And then he went to, he couldn't finish a wind sprint. He went from benching 165 as an 11 year old. I didn't bench 165,

so I was like a junior in high school. And then he went to where he couldn't even lift the bar. And so we went through a gauntlet of what's wrong with Parker? You know, he's no gas in the tank, hurts everywhere, heartbeats out of his chest for no apparent reason. So we're in a community in Birmingham where we had good allies, people in my church

who were involved at the medical school and the regional hospital, teaching hospital there. 30, 40, 50, and really it was 50 caregivers, doctors, test after test, what's wrong with Parker? The net-net is four years in he was diagnosed with Lyme disease. And that was not a well-known diagnosis in the South. Matter of fact, there were many who believed that you couldn't get Lyme in the South, but had to be north of the Mason-Dixon line.

So it was hard. It was hard because we went on this gauntlet of good, I think, intended doctors, caregivers, tasks. People couldn't identify it. And then all the plethora, when they talk about practice medicine, in some ways, that's what you think it is. So Net Net is he got sick, chronic Lyme,

which means if you don't get it early, Lyme's tough because it entrenches. And you go through all of these treatments, some of them, you know, the antibiotics, you know, eight months of that. And then other things that you do that I call, you know, kind of off the radar, like I would never do that except somebody like you

told me, hey, Harry, I had it, this really helped me. So the backstory for suffering and my convictions about it that enrich the truth of God's word are grounded in the fact that my 12 year old son, who's now 29, 17 years, he's disabled, didn't finish the ninth grade, hurts every day, head burns, joints ache. He's 80 in his body, even though he's 29 in his age. So this truth that we're gonna talk about today

matters to my family, because we've had to apply it. We've had to live it, and we've seen the difficulty of living it, the challenges of applying it, as well as the rich treasure that comes from it. So suffering is a big deal to us because Parker suffers and then Karen had challenges in the same way, just not as severe. And if whatever suffering I endure,

it's sympathetic suffering, it's service suffering, it's what you do when you're a caregiver, which is a real challenge, a trial in and of itself, because your life changes. It has changed even to this day. My son and daughter all live upstairs, and we were a team unit of four, and we may be till I go to heaven.

Hey, thanks so much for taking time to listen to this resource. I want to make you aware of a few things before we continue on in this episode. First of all, I want to thank those of you who are monthly want to make you aware of a few things before we continue on in this episode. First of all, I want to thank those of you who are monthly supporters that make the production of this content and the ministry that Dial-In does possible. If you sign up today for a monthly gift, you'll receive a free Dial-In mug on the house.

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Third thing is I just wanna thank those of you who have reached out and offered encouragement regarding my recent book, Consider the Lilies, Finding Perfect Peace in the Character of God. It's been really neat to see both individuals and church small groups walk through this book, which is essentially a book on the character of God

and how it functions as the catalyst to peace and trust in a worried and anxious world. And then just last thing, we are always talking through different ideas for content that would be Lord willing a benefit to you, to encourage you, to potentially challenge you. So if you have any ideas for future episodes or for future series,

you can drop a comment in the section below. Thanks so much. I think sometimes when we talk about suffering, people have a scale or a range of suffering. Obviously, if you kept suffering general, he would say, well, suffering to you. And Elizabeth Elliott, I think I love what she once said about it because her husband was killed.

She suffered, she had the death of two husbands. First, her husband, Jim Elliott, who was the famous missionary, and then Jim, her second husband, due to cancer. And she just said, suffering is anything I have that I don't want and anything I don't have that I do want, and because a lot of people would say, well, I haven't suffered on your level, Elizabeth,

and she would always downplay that and say, no, your suffering's real, and every Christian, to your point, encounters suffering. It could be Lyme's disease, it could be... Financial, relational. Yeah, it could be relational, it could be a job, it could be physical or anything like that. So, and I've watched you walk through that

and for many years now with Parker. And I wanna, obviously you said ground us in God's word and you bring that perspective because I think it's helpful to just to say, hey, it could be something else for someone listening or watching, but suffering is real and it's helpful to just to say, hey, it could be something else for someone listening or watching, but suffering is real. And it's actually an inevitable component

of the way God refines us. So turn our attention to James. I love when you walk through this passage, I've heard you ground people in three different realities. You have to see your suffering for what it is. You have to see yourself for who you are. And then you have to see God for who he is. Can you just kind of big idea and ground our attention

in James as we walk through that? Yeah, and if I could just, I wanna punctuate what you just said about trials are trials, they're relative. My trial isn't yours, yours isn't mine. It doesn't mean that mine's harder or yours is lesser. It may be by some metric, but the point is it's a trial. It's a prasmus. It's a challenge, a difficulty from heaven.

And so I really do, I don't share my story to say, hey, I've got it rough. I'm saying I understand what difficulty can be. No matter what yours is, it's your difficulty. So anyway, James, what I like about James is a couple of things. Number one is it's the wisdom of the New Testament. It's so practical in terms of the application of truth in real time in life, oldest book in the New Testament in terms of when it was written.

And James, the half brother of Jesus, who calls himself here a slave of the Lord Jesus Christ and of God, is writing to the early church who has been driven out diaspora, like seed, spora, seed, dia, out, through. And so you ask yourself the question, the early church in Jerusalem birthed, and now he's writing just a few years later

to Hebrew Christians that have been dispersed, how, by persecution. So they've been driven out. It's not like they moved out because they were looking for greener pastures. This wasn't a mass exodus because we like green grass. This is an exodus driven by survival. These are refugees.

These are people who are hurting. They've lost their families in many cases. They've lost their homes. They've certainly lost their status. This is tough. So I find it interesting that this little letter, which is real Christianity, how real faith works in real time, what genuine faith looks like,

the faith that saves looks like this. I find it interesting that James starts by talking about how faith works in difficulty, how faith deals with difficulty. And so he begins right after he declares who he is and who he's writing to, the persecuted refugees, he starts out by saying, I want you to have this biblical conviction

about trials and trouble. You're in it. Here's how I want you to think about it. And I do frame it in, you gotta see it for what it is, because what he's gonna ask you to do is absolutely unreasonable, unless you see it for what it is, see yourself for who you are,

and you see God for who he is. Because what he's gonna say, the declaration, and it's a tense of a verb which is urgent, do it now, it's compelling, and he starts out by saying, consider it all joy. All is the highest kind of joy, joy everybody understands, raise your arms, excitement, it's tears running down your face, joy at a wedding or the birth of a child.

But it is all joy, maximum joy. And that leads to the Greek sentence, which means it's emphatic, primary position. This is the thing I want you to do. And the word consider is not feel it this way, but think about it this way. This is a conviction that you resolve at the gate. When you, he says, consider all joy,

when you encounter various trials. Encounter, you run into them. They're falling around you. They're not, I like to say it's not self-inflicted. Sometimes I'm in trouble because I'm- You shot yourself in the foot. Yeah, I'm carnal. Yeah, I like to say it's not self-inflicted. Sometimes I'm in trouble because I'm- You shot yourself in the foot. Yeah, I'm carnal. Yeah, I just made bad choices

and I'm reaping the consequence of those choices. This has to do with the trouble that comes from without. You'll talk about inward trouble later in verse 13, the temptations of trials from within, same word. But he's saying that when you encounter any trial, when you encounter various trials, which is what we just talked about, it doesn't matter what kind,

financial, relational, physical, spiritual, whatever those challenges are, when you encounter them, first thing you do, consider this all joy. Now that's unreasonable, Johnny, unless there's a reason for it. And the reasonable joy is the product of recognizing what he goes on to say.

Because you know, verse three, that the testing of your faith produces endurance. The reason it's reasonable joy is because your trial is a tool, it's an instrument, it's a test. Because you know, and the word know is, it's more than propositional knowledge, it's like experiential, it's just as you know this. This is not like you read it in a book.

This is what you've learned in life, that trials produce endurance, because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And so he introduces right there, a reasonable joy is rooted in seeing your trouble for what it is. What is it?

A test of your faith. What is a test? A test is a means by which you can assess validity, like authenticity, is this real? Like is my faith real? Or it's a test also reveals the quality, not just the authenticity. It's like a diamond, you test a diamond

to see how pure it is, it's coloration. You're testing it to see how high the quality of the diamond is. Your faith, your faith, that's your convictions, your confidence in God, this is a test of your faith, which authenticates it. It's a way that God uses this difficulty to validate, do I have true faith?

I've known people who, when they go through severe challenges, they've walked away from their faith. They've said things like, I don't want to have a relationship with a God who would do something like this. If God does this, I don't want any part of it. And what happens in that, and that's temptation sometimes in those severe trials to really wrestle with who God is. But saving faith doesn't walk.

And the test of your trial only validates that you have saving faith. And secondly, it validates or qualifies, quantifies how strong my faith is. So if you're gonna excel and if you're gonna deal with difficulty, you gotta see your trial for what it is, a test that authenticates and a test that exposes both strength and weakness.

It's an encouragement because you go, man, I am trusting God through this difficulty. I have not lost my difficulty. I have not lost my way. I've not lost the characteristics of a true Christian in my difficult. That's encouraging. On the other hand, if and when you struggle through difficulty, doubting, questions about the goodness of God, questions about the sovereignty of God, questions about the purpose of any of this. It can expose what I call your faith muscle groups that aren't strong.

It exposes weakness. And I'm arguing that that's a good thing for me to know where I'm weak in my faith because God's pointing through this trial, an exercise that can strengthen me. The testing of your faith produces endurance. The word produces, it's guaranteed. This is what it does.

If you cooperate with God, it will produce hupamenno, endurance, strength under a load. It's the word under with the word remain. The ability to remain under a weight, under a load, your capacity to carry the load of the trial demonstrates strength. And if it's an intense trial or long life like this thing that we're dealing with,

chronic stuff is hard. You're like you're in a marathon and you don't know when it's gonna end. You don't want mile marker you're in. So it's hard. Your difficulty when you exercise your faith muscle guaranteed will make you stronger if you cooperate with God and that's a good thing.

I'm in, I like to say God's gym and he's created by his providence and sovereignty a purposeful faith exercise, I like to say it's a good God doing good work in a hard place. And in order for you to see the trial for what it is, it kind of leads to the second component of seeing yourself for who you are,

because only if you kind of see yourself for who you are, can you see the trial for what it is. So take us from that first principle, you can you see the trial for what it is. So take us from that first principle, you have to see the trial for what it is. It's a refiner of our faith. It is a test that produces endurance. And then the second principle that you've given is, we have to see ourselves for who we are.

What do you mean by that? Well, I think that comes clearly out of verse four, where it says, and let endurance stay under the load, let it have its perfect result. In other words, let it finish the outcome that it was designed to accomplish. Watch this, that you may be perfect, complete, lacking in nothing.

Okay, see myself for who I am? I'm not perfect, complete, and I do lack. I'm not as Christ-like, the word perfect teleos. It's the idea of I reach my fullest expression, highest maturity. I'm not as Christ-like, the word perfect teleos. It's the idea of a reach my fullest expression, highest maturity. I like to say Christ-like. I'm not wholly like Christ. I am not complete.

That was a worship term used for animals unblemished when sacrifices were made to God. I'm not that either. I'm not unblemished. And I'm not, I'm still deficient. It basically goes on to say that you're able, verse four, lacking in nothing. Lacking in nothing of what?

For the mission for which God called me. So I like to say, see myself for who I am. I'm unfinished. I like to say art because you are his workmanship. I am God's workmanship. I'm not finished yet. He who begins good work will continue to perform it. If I see myself as unfinished,

when the scalpel comes, when the chisel comes, when the hammer comes, when the instrument that is designed by God to shape me, I accept it because I know that I'm not finished and I need to be finished. The goal of God is Christ-likeness. The goal of God is to conform to the image of his firstborn son.

If I don't understand that I'm not that, then I'm resistant as if I don't need this. And what God is saying is count it joy, the highest joy. Because you understand that the work that I've begun, I'm doing right now through this. So you have to see yourself as unfinished, and then verse five introduces the fact you also see yourself as intrinsically inadequate

to partner with God in the trouble, because he says first class condition in the Greek language, verse five, but since you lack wisdom is literally what it says, not a conditional clause asking a question like if you lack wisdom, like it might be true, it might not be true, it's an emphatic statement to say, since you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, why?

Because he has what I don't have. Well, what would that be? Wisdom, what is wisdom? Wisdom is knowing where I am, where I need to go and how to get there. It's God's view of my reality. God possesses it, Harry doesn't have it. Contextually, I mean, everybody knows verse five,

but verse five contextually is attached to trouble. The trial that I'm in is an exercise of my faith and I don't know how to do it. So it achieves the outcome that God has designed for it. So I have to see myself desperately dependent, unfinished and in process and I need help from heaven. God has what I don't have, which introduces to you to the fact that you gotta see God for who he is. He's got the provision of perspective that I need. Which is your third principle. Yeah, if I don't see God as, and this verse goes on to say,

the thing I lack, and the word lack is destitute. It's like, I don't have any. Yeah, bankrupt. Yeah, it's not like I got enough. I don't have a can of wisdom in my cupboard. My cupboard is bare. And not to beat, I mean, I don't want anybody to feel like they're dumb or stupid.

I think you can feel like you're just either a loser or a foolish. And I think you need to know that you are among everybody who's in a trial. You do not know how to do this exercise. This is a custom exercise by God for you. You're in his fitness center, his gym, and you walk in and you see this instrument,

this exercise thing, this weight machine. You've never seen it before. You don't know how the cables work. You don't know how all the buttons and the adjustments. You need wisdom to know how to cooperate with the work that God wants to do so that you become what he's purposed this to make you to be.

His purpose is good. He's a good God because it says verse five, if you ask him, he gives. The tense of that verb and the weight of that verb is he always gives, gives generously. That's like running over. I like to say, you know, we need it, Panda Express, they count the shrimp.

I love the walnut shrimp. And they count it out, like literally one, two, three, however many you get unless you order a double order. You know your Panda Express. You know it's not generous. You know it's exactly what you paid for and I contrast that to my grandmother who if I said to her, Mammy, I would like more of that. It's a big helping.

It's a heaping. The word generous is heaping. It's generous. God's always generous. He's not parceling out. He's generously granting it, because that's who he is. And it says, and he doesn't make you feel small

because you asked for it or need it without reproach. So he's gracious. So I think here's what I would say to anybody going through difficulty. The reason you count this joy is because you know I need this. And you know that a good God who's generous with what I need to accomplish his work through,

that he rules. Which is my transformation into the image of Christ. That's the goal of God. Yeah. I used the illustration recently. You know, if the best person in the world of what you want to be the most like for me, I'd love to be a race car driver,

and I'm not a race car driver, but if the best race car driver in the world called me on the phone and I knew it was him, and he said, Harry, I want to invite you to my academy in Europe, we're gonna spend a year with me. It's gonna be hard, probably the hardest thing you've ever done.

But I promise you that if you come and submit to that training, you'll be the best driver you can be and really as good as some of the best in the world. And if I got that call, I would look at my wife and say, Karen, you can't believe it. You know what just happened?

That's what count it all joy involves, the best at the best. Calling through this trial saying, Harry, I'm gonna make you the best you can be. This is gonna be tough, maybe the hardest thing you've ever done. But if you cooperate with me, I'll make you the very best, whole, complete, lacking in nothing, just like my son.

That's the goal of God. And if you don't see your trouble as a tool for that, if you don't see God as good to accomplish that, and if you don't see yourself in need of that and dependent upon God for it. Yeah, or desiring that. Yeah, yeah, and if you go, I yourself in need of that and dependent upon God for it. Or desiring that. Yeah, yeah.

And if you go, I'm not interested in that. Well, that's problematic. The good news is if you're a Christian, God's interested in that and that's gonna happen. And I think that's one of the sobering things is if God invites me into this thing, I need to maximize it. I tell people when I visit with them in the hospital

or wherever, after you show appropriate sympathy, because it's hard, and this is not saying I don't have sorrow, Job had sorrow. It's not fun to be in difficult places. It's not like you divorce yourself from reality. But when you, after you show appropriate sympathy to somebody, like, man, I'm sorry, this is hard. My situation's hard, it's painful every day.

I look at my son and say, joy, bark, cannon, all joy. You show appropriate sympathy and then you remind them that this is a good God doing a good thing in a hard place. Cooperate with him, don't waste this. Yeah, which is possible. It is. So you can get bitter, angry. People do get bitter.

And sometimes they just, I mean, at least for most normal people are gone, I can't wait to get out of here. Yeah. I just got to survive until I get out. And I think what God would say is, let it have its perfect result. Stay with it, engage it.

Don't resign, don't get passive, don't get angry. I tell people, God can handle your anger. He just doesn't deserve it. I think it's important what you're saying regarding God's goodness, and I think just his character in general, because in trials, he said God gives us, those trials who, it's not that God is an aloof chiseler

of our character. He's a loving father, so we have to see all of his attributes all of the time, you know, so that it's the instruction or the testing of a God who loves us and who knows what's best for us, which is our transformation into the image of Christ. So there's a motive for God. It's not like we're trinkets he puts on a shelf. He's a loving father that refines us and shapes and sharpens us.

And he shows us who he is more and more in those trials. And you've mentioned before, Paul saying that he prayed three times for the thorn and the flesh to be removed. And God's power, if you wanna have a sense of God's power in your life, that is typically revealed in trouble. Yeah, such a good point.

And that is Paul's thing in 2 Corinthians 12, when God says, no, Paul. I mean, he begged. Yeah. Remove this, thorn in the flesh, an angelos, a messenger of Satan. So everything about that phraseology is it's severe, it's hard, and he hears this,

Paul, my grace, my grace is sufficient. In other words, it's enough. That's what the words, it's enough for you. And my power is made perfect. Same word as James is using, reaches its fullest expression in your what? Ask the net, oh, your weakness. When you don't have anything.

And Paul says, I'm gonna glory in my weakness that I might know that I'm gonna boast in it. I'm gonna celebrate it. I'm gonna be grateful for it because in my weakness, I experience the strength of God. And I like to say, you wanna see your trial for what it is? It's a stage to display God's greatness and it's a table to taste God's goodness.

It's a place where I can know God. That's why he said, I'm gonna glory in this because I get to know things about God. And I will tell you this in our house, both for me, for my wife, for my son, who I talked to recently about, you know, how he's feeling about his circumstances. And he said, you know, my biggest fear is that I will lose the dependence I have on God

and the intimacy I have with God if he does heal me. I want to be healed. I want to have relief, but I don't want the relief at the expense of what I've tasted with God. Yeah, I go, okay. That's what Paul was saying. And me telling you Parker's story doesn't validate it.

The Bible is its own validation. It's just an illustration of its reality. So trouble, it's coming. I like to quote James 14, a man who was born of woman is a few days and full of trouble, kind of like the verse you quoted. And so you are in trouble, you're about to get out of it, or you're about to get into it, and this is a roadmap.

And wisdom is God's perspective. I like to say this, I should say it. Wisdom is GPS turn-by-turn guidance. I know the goal of God. I just don't know how to get to that goal without his instruction. And it's turn-by-turn. I don't know how to get to that goal without his instruction. And it's turn by turn. I don't know what next month is.

I know what today is. Yeah, that's the way God leads, step by step. So for those in trials, three principles. First, you have to see the trial for what it is. It's a tester of our faith that refines, it sharpens, it shapes us with the goal of conformity into the image of Christ. We have to see ourself for who we are.

You said we're unfinished. Our God who began a good work is gonna carry it out into completion and he does that through trouble. And then we have to see God for who he is. He's good, he loves us and he's not just this, can't separate, okay, God's determination to refine me from his love and care and compassion and sympathy. And so I think those three principles ought to encourage

every believer who inevitably acts 1422 through many tribulations we will enter the kingdom of God. And so it might not be the same as yours, but if we're destined for difficulty at some point. Heaven's coming, that's guaranteed. And the good God who's shaping you through difficulty guarantees the glory and the fullness of joy, pleasure forevermore.

God's good. And I think I've had people say to me in difficult places, Harry, why? Why is God doing this? Job teaches us, you don't know why. That's one of the great mysteries. You can hypothetically go, this is why God's doing this. And Job would be, in all those 40-some chapters,

no, you don't know why. What you do know is the God who made it all and controls it all. The who? Is good. If God did not spare his own son, how will we not freely give us all things to enjoy? That same good God with whom there's no variation

or shadow of turning, every good and perfect gift comes down from the father of lights. That God who's given his son is committed to making you like his son. And that goodness uses hard things to do that great thing. And you need help, which is why James finishes by saying, hey, keep asking and don't stop doubting. Yeah.

That's another thing to emphasize is let him ask in faith without wavering. Because if you're like the wave of the sea driven and tossed, you're a double-minded man. Let not that man receive anything. He's not gonna receive anything from the Lord. What's James saying? The help you need is conditioned upon your trust in the one who promises it.

Well, Harry, thanks for your wisdom and on an important subject, you know, and because people need to see their child for what it is. And so thank you, thank you. You're welcome. And I hope that's helpful to somebody. It has been to me. It's helpful to me. So, I appreciate it and thankful for God the word.

Yeah, me too.