Dice Shame - 2-68 | 'Get a Rise'

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Imagine your best game of D&D. The shocks, the twists and turns, the moments that can’t be caught because you just had to be there. That’s Dice Shame.Join our DM Jo, her husband Harlan, their brother Alex & their best friends Rob and Alex as they experience those unmissable, gut-wrenching, heart-aching, joy-filled moments.This legendary AP releases a brand new episode every Thursday morning at 1:20 am!Content Warning: animal death, swearing, violence, claustrophobiaPart of the Rusty Quill Network Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What the fuck are you? Why? You're a dwarf. Nobody needs a wizard who can't cast spells. Hey, should we take five? Oh my God. I heard they ate children. Fooler won't be fooled again.

What do you mean, evil dwarf? Oh, no. I just don't understand. I definitely egged you on. I saw what happened when my sister died and my mother brought her back. Oh. You know, there's a lot going on. I mean, I kind of understand where you're coming from.

I mean, look at them. And I look back and there's like the two dwebs back there. Of course. Wow. All right, then. MVP this week is Abriol. Nominated by Marimo. Maramo wrote, I think Abriel listens to Dyshame,

but I'm not a rise. 100% sure. But Abreel is super sweet and welcoming and always a joy to interact with on the Discord. Thanks so much, Marimo, for nominating Abriel and April, congrats. You're this week's MVP. All right. Should we play some D&D? Yeah, let's do it. Put this in your mind's eye. You have now been shrunk down. You are tiny. You are just a You're a little guy. Horrified. How big are we talking?

Wait, wait. Like, little, like, young? We're talking, like, the size of, like, maybe, like, one... Thumbelina? Two knuckles, like, high. Like, two of new knuckles, yeah. Like, an inch and a half. Yeah, yeah.

That's a... I like how I don't go to, like, an actual measurement. I'm, like, going, like, a medieval peasant being, like, four hands, like, measuring a horse. And you're outside. What is... The first bug that you want to try to find to, like, turn into your steed. Because honestly, like, I would want to be, like, out there, like, doing something cool.

I want to be out exploring. And I feel like if I was, like, able to get, like, a toothpick or something and could be like, yeah. And, like, get a bug. What would I be? First off, all of you need to play grounded. Yes. Joe and I have literally hundreds of hours in exactly answering this question. And it's ladybug, first off.

Then it's ox beetle. then it, no, I'm teasing. What the hell is an ox people? Because Rob was like right off the bat said Dragonfly, but do we have to best it in combat in order to, you have to be You have to be able to wrangle it.

Like you have to get to it. So like you may not have to like best it but you at least able to get on its back. So dragonflies are like right up there but it would be hard because there's Because ladybugs fly. They don't really have, I mean they have some really good defenses.

They trundle around so you don't have to worry about getting fucking seasick or, like, bucked off with a dragonfly, right? I don't know. I'd say, because my first thought was butterfly, but dragonflies felt like they moved in a straighter line that had less like up and down wobble in it. It was where I was, my brain was going. I'd be riding a butterfly going, come on, that way, stop fluttering.

Come on. I don't give a shit about this flower. Let's get going. Are we going this, sweet that? Yeah. Alex is up there just going like, Butterfly in the sky. I'm not twice as high. It flies so high.

Reading rainbow. I look forward to the day that I'm walking along and I hear a butterfly flyby and a tiny voice sings out. Oh, I'd be so terrifying. Yeah, I go ladybug, though. Ladybugs fly. They got great defenses. They're friendly. They're helpful.

They're, you know, they ward off predators. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. You just got this from a game. Okay. Who the fuck said ladybugs were friendly? They are. When they are afraid, they piss on you or they let out that stuff.

I've had ladybugs fight me. I have never had a dragonfly bite me. Now, I would argue that I would not have to. Wait, are you saying you've had a ladybug bite you? Yes. And I would argue that you would not have to. What did you say to that ladybug to make it bite you? Are you thinking of the other types of ladybugs that are called?

The orange ones? Bird side. Okay. but let me just finish my thought here you don't know you don't know how friendly a ladybug is we don't know any of this but it could be racist i will have to say probably are that i get a strong sense from dragonflies going back to dragonflies that you know what they i've never had a dragonfly by me and they always land on you in a friendly manner and they're always looking around you know what mean i have a feeling that if you were standing you know two knuckles high in front of a dragonfly

that they'd probably say hey jump on where you going let's go we'll grab a bug on the way we'll snack and party you're surprisingly passionate about this more passionate that i am i don't really care get rid of these fucking mosquitoes i appreciate you passion sure you've won i don't want to do a ladybug anymore thank you good dragonfly is fuck dangerous yeah if you're on a ladybug and it gets fucked You know what, you're probably right. The real trick, like, I'm thinking, okay, you got to get a dragonfly young, right when they're leaving the edge of the water. Oh, that's dirty. That's gross.

A nymph. But now you're a little guy on the edge of the water, and there's every kind of frog and fish out to get you. It might be pretty dangerous trying to get that. Yeah. We're thinking too small. What about a centipede? I forgot the question. Was it kill or friend?

No, you have to be friend. It would be your mouth. Yeah, write it, yes. I'm imagining myself lying with my head. hands behind my back, on the back of a centipede, just letting it take me where it wants. Is it a house centipede? No, God, no. It's a forest centipede.

Jesus Christ. I'm not a fucking maniac. If you get in the hairs of a dog, you're pretty safe. There's no insect dog. A dog's an insect for a giant. Yeah, I don't know. So you're talking about a tick then, Harlan, because you'd be riding in a dog. Yeah, ticks are like insanely

Disgusting They're so gross Yeah, they suck Strong too I try to crush one Don't Why would you do that? I found one of my pan leg

And I was like, I took it And I grabbed it between my nails And I like squeezed it I tried to pop the head off You know what? That little fucker Excuse me Well, this 18 plus

That little fucker would not I couldn't kill it I was like every You're not supposed to take the heads off If they're in you, right? It wasn't in him. It wasn't in me. I was on your panel.

I just picked it out. I was trying to cut it in half my fingernails. And like it wouldn't. It was actually insane. I like squeezed it. And I was like, that should be good. Just so you know how you catch a mosquito or something. It's done.

This thing, I probably tried three or four times. I threw it into the fire pit. I was like, what the fuck are you? Die by fire. Okay. The whole journey here. And then it exploded. Crack.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying. back to life and haunted me to this day. I think I might I might go for just a normal house fly. If I could ride it, if I could ride it, they got no teeth. They'd be like,

are like, you would be going to hang out with a lot of shit. Yeah, maybe. Like are you saying that we have to like best it the way Joe's saying or is it just, you know? I think that like you, there has to be like a believable ability for you to like actually like get near one like um so if it's like some can't be a spider i mean you could try it's like

the kind of difference between like you know do you want you know you can try to get close to a horse you can get close to a moose one of them is going to turn you into wilderness pizza probably but probably the horse yeah they are terrifying like a wolf spider would be an awesome mountain this is just like a mini version of the question that we had a couple months ago or it's like what animal could you fight oh that's true no this is just what can you befriend oh i know crocodile If you were super tiny... Little tiny crocodile. That's the animal I want in my pocket.

Little guy. Just pop out. It's a crocodile. This is the answer for every question. Yeah, it's crocodile. See, I would just go with the bumblebee. Oh, that's the answer. They're the worst.

Oh, what? Come on, Harlan. Oh, my God. You have no fucking idea how terrible bumblebees are. What are you talking about? This may be the wrongest thing you've ever said. Not if I'm only saying it to be... ironic.

Yeah, are you trying to be ironic? How dare you speak ill of me and my hive? Well, that's why it's funny because so many people are like, like so many people are like, save the bumblebees, which it's really funny and nice. You've never heard anyone go, fuck bumblebees. And because I like to be a contrarian, I just, I just want to say, fuck. I mean, there are some people I'm hearing say, fuck honeybees recently because they're displacing native bees in the areas.

that we're making honey but yeah well then fuck honeybees yeah I would go spider I'd tame it I'd wiggle something delicious in front of it and hop on

I'm gonna join you on team bumblebee yeah I kill those things all the time and grounded just hanging out with little little soft bees and you get access to honey you get like a nice hive

to dance all day just to like yeah you get to visit every flower you get to like talk you just shake your butt and just be like how little you know

about bumblebees 100 you're like like their opinions on so many things so upsetting they are the least woke of the bugs bees like to play too there was that whole thing about bees playing with balls and stuff they're no they're the worst they're monsters i'd also like to suggest um um just for pure weird bug cutness the weevil a bug that is pretty weirdly cute we've killed so many of those and grounded as well too they're awesome weevilly guy make armor out of them An evil weevil.

An evil weevil. I can't think of that many insects right off the top of my head right now. It's bothering me. Ladybug. Sure. Speaking of insects that are giant because we'd be small. Or rather being small in the, you know what? Should we play some D&D?

Let's do it. Here's the segue. Dund. Yay! Ow! Go get some bugs. That's bug. hunt your travels continue you pass through these caverns and tunnels in the under dark and

you come to a place that doran knows is about almost an hour from scarborough you're getting very close now this cavern is full of shards of crystals these formations that form prisms that jut out of the floor and ceiling, and some of them are glowing with their own internal light. It's a peaceful place here, and in and amongst some of these shards of crystal, there are tiny blue mushrooms that grow all around. It's very beautiful. The crystals themselves are not really worth anything, which is why they haven't been harvested or mined. Just kind of lovely. They're just pretty. Hey, should we take five?

I could use a break. Uh, Dorn and I are still wounded, as you can see. A short rest would be valuable for those of us who don't have magic and don't understand the intricacies as well as you two do. Yeah, I don't mind the idea of a rest, Red. That's a good thought. Yeah, you know what? I, I gotta say something. What's going on with you? Uh, Jack, it doesn't seem like, uh, doesn't seem like you had everything together back there. I mean, you know, you still had your same flash and bang that you normally have, but... Less of a bang, more of a B-A-N-G.

A lot less of a bang. Yeah, yeah. Any idea what's going on? Like, we don't need, we don't need, I don't, I don't, I don't, do you have an explanation? How about do you want to talk about it? Nobody needs a wizard who can't cast spells. Well, that's not what I mean. Well, I hear you.

Just, uh, I don't have an answer. Also, it's not true that we don't need a wizard that can't cast spells. Jack, even if you were as useful as Elster. Yeah. We want you regardless, is what we're saying. You're our friend before you are a wizard.

Yeah, I just need some time to think. I don't know. It's just, nothing's quite lining up in my brain the way it used to. I know I took a pretty big hit the other day, and maybe I'm still just trying to work my way through that. Everything just feels a little bit like it's through it a lens distorted, and I'm trying to

Yeah. You know. You shouted it at me. Very unlike me. It was. It hurt my feelings. I'm sorry, I hurt your feelings, Red. That's okay.

I just didn't know. I'm not very smart. I'm wise, but I don't know anything about magic. Hard to argue that. I'm going to go take Stephen for a little walk and Red summons Stephen. We'll just head up the road. See if we can't find out where we are. Ah, Red.

Yeah. Tall Rumas. It's the den of wandering Tullerumas. Oh! That's where we are. Cool. Come on, Stephen. You want to see the den of wandering Talrumas?

Yeah, me too. And Red walks off for a moment. Darn turns back to Jack. And what's Mari up to? Mari sort of walks around and kind of finds, like, a little spot to, like, sit down on. And she kind of, she waves Jack over. So, uh, yeah, is there anything I can do to help? You know me to, like, gather sticks or something?

No. No. I don't know. I don't know. Do you have to build a fire, I assume? No, I don't know. I don't know why I thought you'd have to burn something. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't have to do anything like that. I just, and she, she reaches into her pocket and she kind of gingerly picks up this piece of Ellister Noggin and cleans off a little piece of the ground and places it on there. I've never done this spell before. I'm just going to be. honest. I've never done it before. And it's complicated magic. It's big magic. It's more than I ever thought that I would be doing because this is not normal for me. This is not the kind of stuff that I would normally be diving into. But I have seen it because I saw what happened when my sister died and my mother brought her back. Oh. She was out for a ride with my oldest sister. and she got thrown from the horse.

And when she hit the ground, I just remember the sound. And we brought her back in, and we brought Mirren, my youngest sister, back in, and you could heal her bones, you could heal the cuts, but she wasn't breathing. My mother made a choice, and I sat there with her, and I took her hand, and I couldn't see what she was doing, because it's almost like she went inside of herself, but it only took a couple of minutes, and then there was. Mirren and she was crying and my mother scooped her up and she told me that she was sorry that I

had to learn this younger than she thought I would. And she takes a deep breath and starts trying to feel for this veil, this gap in between the world of the living and the world of the dead to enter into this middle passage. And as she does, she's still sitting there and her eyes are still open, but they cloud over and they turn dark, and these tiny pieces of light start to form. Suddenly, she finds herself in a small hallway with soft golden carpets and a wallpaper that as she looks closer, it looks like waves, but it's not a repeating pattern. It's all hand-drawn, these waves that point her towards a door with a four-pointed star carved into it. And she walks over and gently opens this door.

And when she walks in, what she sees is a vast, endless space that just keeps opening up further and further. It is floors made of polished, hardwood, in a rich sort of golden wood, and then just open up into this endless, navy, deep navy sky above her. And it is filled with layers upon layers of constellations and stars. is in that moment that she knows that these are constellations formed by those who have died and each one is a death. And she knows that she needs to find the constellation that is Ellister. And the spell requires her to be able to picture the person, to recreate them almost in mind and body from memory. And that's one thing when you're trying to find your child or your partner,

but this is a random little man who has been following along with them for barely any time at all. And as she's trying to do that, it's hard. She's trying to remember things about him what he looked like and what he sounded like, but it's difficult, and the memories are slipping away from her. They feel greasy and wrong in her mind, and she can feel the pain of her physical body starting to seep through the fatigue and the frustration. and as she's trying to like pick through these stars and pull them down towards her, she's not sure if she's pulling the right ones, but she's trying.

She's trying to remember little things about him, all that she knows, which is not very much, and it's difficult, and she's getting frustrated, and the frustration is not helping. Somewhere in her mind, she knows that this is not the best way to do the spell, that she needs to concentrate on bringing this person back, but she's just so tired in this moment. Jack and Doran, you watch as Mari is casting this spell. She's reaching the weave of this magic to pull out the essence of Elster

and transmute a body for him out of these spell components that she has prepared. Wind begins to whip up around her. bringing sand and gravel from all corners of this cave into dervishes all around Mari. Her eyes are closed, and as she reaches the zenith of this casting, a blinding like radios from all around her. Kind of like her astral form, but much brighter, so brightly, you can't see for a minute. And then in the aftershock of the glare, she's back, Mari. just standing there or maybe fall into her knees and in front of her on the ground

is a humanoid form a small figure dusty skinned gray and as he naked takes to his feet unsteadily and looks around the cavern elester noggins

looks wrong he's wearing a dwarven form now with white hair and he looks confused from face to face to face what did you do to me oh

marie's sort of on her knees just kind of breathing heavily she's like clammy looking right now oh no elister what What did you do?

This... This can't be happening. He looks down at his hands, these stumpy fingers, bigger hands than a rock gnome, but strange, darker skin, and looking up around the cavern, seeing this unfamiliar place. What the fuck is going on? You died. and now you're alive in a new body

because your old one couldn't hold life anymore yeah and if I have to say you know what you shouldn't be so disappointed because you're a dwarf it appears

and there's nothing wrong with being a dwarf all right you must have wanted this too because apparently she couldn't do this without you wanting it at least so

then you should thank her he looks into your face Mari and you see fear and anger and confusion and he starts stepping away from the three of you

I don't ask for this at all this isn't right this isn't right I don't know what and then he backs into red oh hey ha wait what the fuck are you

20 minutes have since passed And the party's already moving again Leaving the shimmering crystal cavern The den of wandering Talrumas And headed for Scarborough With Ellister following Dres in Doren's spare tunic And sullenly keeping to himself

Red turns to Doren The two of them are kind of like Far up ahead And they've been walking in silence for a fair amount of time he just says Do you believe it? I can believe it

Yeah But I don't trust them Those Durgaars are What? What are you talking about the Duragas? I'm not talking about the Durag I'm not talking about them Red points over his shoulder to

Mari and Jack What? You don't trust them Before, before bringing back Him which that's a whole can of worms You didn't see when Mara used the staff of healing on

on Jack, while you and I were out getting rid of the bodies. I'm wounded here. Look at me. Yeah. You look like you've been injured quite a bit. Doran's sort of eyes you up and down. Yeah, and you too. Well, yeah, but I mean, I'm fine.

I really... Yeah, but how does it make you feel? You know, they tell us to go take out the dirty work. Well, I mean, we volunteer. Don't get me wrong, but while we're out doing the dirty work, they're out, they're healing themselves, you know? And what was with Mari blowing up on us? Getting mad at you for

being hot-headed when all you were doing were stopping some dragon cultists and me pulling back and becoming invisible and firing sorry for being a ranger like well you know you know you know what she said to me she said don't even start is what she said to me don't even start who opens a conversation like that it's them i i have an issue with right now ff and red kind of stares forward yeah durrance kind of staring forward as well. He's in his own thoughts. He's sort of, I would say three quarters listening to you in the one quarter of his own head. Yeah, well, you know, Red, I, I'm sure, I'm sure that they, they didn't go and heal themselves, uh, you know, and, and not heal you on purpose.

I mean, did you just say anything? Do you, do you want to go and do the magic thing and get some of your wounds? If, if it's concern of yours, just go and say something. I mean, it's easy enough to be concentrating on one thing and then overlook, you know, what am I trying to say? You're saying it wasn't purposeful, is what you're saying. It wasn't intentional, I think. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. I don't know.

There's a lot going on. I mean, I kind of understand where you're coming from. I mean, look at them. And I look back and there's like the two dwebes back there. Harsh. Harsh! Harsh! Wow.

But I mean, we're right then. You know, harsh language. Fucking nerds. back there, us jocks. The characters are me and Rob, this will make a difference. It's a distinction without a difference.

I mean, look, you're not wrong. Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm being too sensitive. But, you know, it got escalated with us. You and I, we said, we said our peace. I thought you brought up a really good point a few hours ago when you came in talking about whether or not Elister even wanted to come back and now look at him, you know, he's a different person.

And I felt this for a long time. You know, Jack's confidence. I mean, look at the box, you know? He pulled it out of the bag when we went looking, he got into it. That's, you know what that is. That's being too close to the sun. That's believing in yourself in a level that can bite you in the ass, and it did.

It bit him in the ass, Doran. And now he might be biting Elister in the ass too. I don't know, but you might be right. Maybe it's just... Well, no, you might actually be on to something there. You know, what Jack did with that cube thing, I mean, hell. And he kind of looks right into your eyes red, and he says,

it reminds me of, uh, reminds me of Kralov, something he might do. I mean, look, look what happened to him. I mean, I, I don't think it's so much about trusting him. I trusted Kralov, but I, I don't know. I think, I think we need to watch out for them. I mean, sometimes you do things, you don't think about it. And, and that, and that Durgar. I mean, was he always like that?

he was a gnome at first and then they brought him back to life and all of a sudden he's a he's one of those evil dwarves i mean evil dwarf well don't i mean i've just heard the tales i don't i don't think i've ever really met uh a duragar but i know my ancestors have had battles with them they came up from the deaths and well i heard they ate children i mean i mean put it this way i guess i am a little bit concerned because was he or originally a Duraghar that has been, you know, hiding himself as a gnome? Or is this just what happens when Mari cast a spell to bring him back from the dead? And I'm just a little bit red stares at Doran. And he's just like, I think probably the second one. But you know what, Doran? Sometimes I wish I was in your brain for a vacation. Because that's an interesting thought, you know?

Was he a Duragarin disguise all along? And then he died to be revealed. You know? Who knows? I don't understand how bringing someone back to life from dead makes them change into a different being. I just don't understand. As was made abundantly clear to us, we don't understand a lot about magic. But that's their problem now.

That's 100%. I mean, the stuff with you do. I don't do magic. I mean, you know. I feel the earth move under my feet. Sure, seems like magic sometimes. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Look, he's still eliz.

Lester, Mario already didn't trust the little guy when he was a gnome. And now you're telling him, telling me that he comes back to life as some different person and we're supposed to trust him all of a sudden? Not me. Not yet. Fooler won't be fooled again. But to end up to be fair, of all the people, red, I mean, we meet someone in the yard that's like, oh, hey, here's some bread. And you're like, don't trust him. Like, you know, like, here's my thought, though.

Jack, Jack has canonically skewed certain people that Red seen positive in negative light because of their beliefs. And Red's going off that vibe with you being like, yo, just because he's different doesn't mean he's that. Totally. Additionally, Reds never trusted Elster, though. He's not like, this guy's good all of a sudden.

But now you're making that argument. You're saying, oh, we should trust him. No, no. All I said was Elster's the same, Elster. I didn't say Elster's a good guy. I just said he's the same as he's always bit. And if that means he's bad, then he's still bad. So shouldn't you agree with me?

So shouldn't you say, I don't know if he was hiding? Well, I don't think that's a really good argument, frankly. You think, Mehta, you think the Duragar was in the skin of the gnome for fucking years? And then he got killed and came back. Well, how do you know it's for years? It's the perfect disguise. Well, okay. I mean, look, you know what?

Sure. It's, look, believe it. Do what you want. Do what you want with your character. I'm just saying, logically, we meet the guy. What do you mean logically? Let's, let's not throw. this word around willy-nilly.

We meet the guy in the pocket of a giant. Right? Right. He's in the pocket of a giant. Agreed. You don't trust him. Agreed. Marie doesn't trust him.

He dies in battle. Right. And he's brought back to life as a quote-unquote what Doran thinks was in an evil race. And you think his master plan was to, what, be killed and come back as a Dorega? No. You know what? Maybe Elister. But maybe Elis.

Was actually, maybe Alistair is actually that giant in disguise or was piloting the giant Thane somehow and Elister's the big villain for the, for the game. Alistair, big bad. It's possible. It's just as possible. You have exactly as much evidence for yours is mine. You get to, you get to take Mario back in, like, just blow her up if that's true. All of a sudden, Red's like, oh, no, we should, it's the same guy.

I'm not saying, look, look, hey, and I am willing and. genuinely open to putting it to a vote. Do Mari and Jack think that Red is being out of character in not buying into this? I think you're, I think you're, I think you're willingly. Idea? I'm going to call it a conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theorist? Yeah.

Okay. Do we think, is it something Red would be like, right? Because then I'll do it. I think, Red, I think. Red, absolutely would fall for this kind of conspiracy. I am so embarrassed by you, Rob. In any other context. Okay.

I'll do it. I'll do it. Like, Red is very much a yes, I'll go along with it. Whether or not Red actually believes it in his heart, nobody knows what's going on inside Red. But I'm saying this has the same amount of legs as if being like, that could be a dragon in human skin. Well, we've seen people shape, shift. You know what, though? I think because Red is feeling like it's him and Doran against Mario Jack, you know what, fine.

Even if he doesn't think that Doran has any fucking credibility, he might be like, I mean, Red is stupid, but if we honestly think he's that stupid, I'm in. It's not beyond the pale. I don't understand what you're, like, actually. Why is this his master plan? Doran is questioning the nature of the spell. No, I can understand questioning the nature of the spell because if, if like, because he, I think that if he'd come back as literally anything, Doran would be like, what the fuck?

He'd be like just looking at it being like, why? Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If you're presenting this as Doran as like a hey, maybe he was a Durga all along. Without the connotation of evil or Machiavellian intent, yeah, Red would be on board with that. I guess I'm having a tough time divorcing Doran being like, oh, he's a Duragar. I don't trust him. Was this him all along with the thought of just him being like, hey. Because if it's just a hey, then I would be on.

On board, sure. Let's back it up for one second. If this gnome came back to life as a gnome. Quotation marks around gnome, strongly implied. Scare quotes the story. If he came back as a gnome, I don't think there would be any question. The fact that he came back as something else makes me question. I don't want to get too into this conspiracy theory. But if Ellister had come back and was perfectly chill about his new body, that's one thing. But if someone was out there to get us to split apart. Reds rovers to shatter us to get us to divide the art loyalties. It would be a turigar. Wow. Red's order of operations right now is, as Joe said, side with Doran. I agree. And if in a bubble, Doran innocently is like, hey, I wonder if this was him all along. I, a hundred percent could be on board with that.

And maybe that's where Rob's coming from. I'm just being a shit. I don't know. However, if you are saying he's evil and there's a secondary like Machiavellian intent behind all of this bullshit, Red's order of operations is, don't prejudge, because I think that's been more established than side with Doran, especially in Red's

character being like, well, as Modius devil is the devil is, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That that would supersede him. So he would be like, defend the Durgaard first and then be like And that's where I'm going with this. I would rather you just say something like, hey, you're right. He did come back as

something else. That is questionable. Red's not going to agree with Doran when he's coming off racist basically. Exactly. Easy this way. But I don't care. Yeah, Red wouldn't... Red doesn't have to agree. Let's take it again. Let's just retake it. You know, he... Yeah, what? I don't know.

Well, why was he a gnome? And then when he died, he was a gnome. When Mari brought him back to life, I'm just saying, maybe his true form is this Durgaar. And I mean, I, look, I don't want to sound like... Hold on. Stop right there. You brought up a great point. Hey, you think that maybe all of this is really just a way that revealed something he was keeping from us. Maybe he's been a Dura Gaur all along. That's what I'm saying.

I don't blame him. Look at him. Gorgeous, mottled skin. I hate to break it to you, but I think the Dyrrugar a little bit more attracted than dwarves. Look at those eyes. Those velveteen lips. Oh, my God. So far the other way. Sorry, you were saying.

It's going in problematic in a different direction now. we're fetishizing oh damn sorry no not not attractive just uh so we'll get something in this side of that's so handsome that's all I don't know

put it this way how do I know that he wasn't a dergar all along I mean red I was brought up hearing stories about this you know evil race of dwarves

that went off thousands of years ago I mean how do I know he's not some spell him out or who disguised himself as a no... Look, I'm getting ahead of myself. It should be weary. Yeah. And he looks back.

I mean, I never trusted Ellister, but I wouldn't treat him any differently just because he's a Duraka. You know, he's no different than you and me. Doran will invent any reason not to worry about going home. He will be literally on the doorstep of his dead mother and trying to find something else to worry about.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm out of groceries. I have to go. I got to buy some soup. You bring up a good point. It definitely could be that he was a Duragar all along. But that wouldn't change the way I feel about him being a little shifting.

Well, that's, yeah. You know, I don't judge people based on no race, is what I'm saying. Oh, neither do I. Well, it sounds like you are. Well, kind of. Yeah. When there's... Why go there?

He's just baiting you. Yeah, he's just, he's entirely doing it to needle you. No, I'm doing it to clarify red stance. I'm saying it clear. Sibling stuff. There are evil races. Your family may have told you stories about evil Duregar, but in actuality, that's not necessarily who they are.

And if you want to make the character decision for Doren, that's totally fine. Should we see what Marian and Jack are talking about? I think that's an episode, really. Yeah. It's a real five-footer that one. Oh, my God. I got one step closer to,

to Scarborough. In my defense, Rob, you said I would act differently. If you had just been like, yeah, then... No, I know, I definitely egged you on and I was half-hearted about it, but then it went at a really funny place that I enjoyed. I'm sorry, I apologize. I thought the history was that they were inherently evil, but apparently just... You're not wrong, and that's the way a lot of people have written about them in the past

as a pretty ham-fisted allegory for some really weird politics. But we don't need to... Cut this. Cut this, Harlan. It'll be hilarious. I can hear it already. Avoid the evil conversation, okay? Because I do take it back. I thought, you know, I would like to retract that. If you want to cut Doran's view of the Duragard being evil... Because I thought they were an evil race to begin. I thought a legitimate Alex thought...

Well, listen. Canonically, in the book, they're read as evil. Okay, well, here's the easiest way to fix this. Well, I don't know. Doran, they're just people. like anyone else, maybe what you know is wrong. Look, I don't know, I just... You know, sometimes people tell you things. I know my family told me right from growing up

that, you know, the Durgaard were, you know, evil and lived in the, you know, in the darkest depths of... But then again, this is my family that doesn't talk to me, so who am I supposed to know? Hey, yeah, and like I said, I don't trust Elister any more than I did before, but I don't trust him any less, just because he's a derogar.

He looks cool to me. I just don't understand why he came back differently. Perfect. And seen. Thank you once again to our wonderful Patreon supporters, Adam Fry, Amanda Kitchener, Amy Gaza, Anne, Atholagoth, Cecil Lee Wilson, Jerry Rose Anderson, Christopher, Colin Burkhart, Crow, Casey, D.S. Dippity, Elizabeth H, Flynn, Gareth Bradshaw, Haley, Haley, Haley, Harper the Marks, Indrid Hartley, Jekyll, J.D., Joy Robinson, Jory, K.R., KM, Cade, Lazzania, Last Ruth on the left, Leader J, Lizzie D, Lorelei Feldman, Matilda Rushing, Melinda Curley, Moon, Melissa, Merlin, Sam C, Reagan, Wren, Ruth Ann Reed, Scotty, Sray 96, Tony Pepperoni, Zander Morning Dove, Zephyrus, and Zach House.

Rob, stop it, you're just poking the bear. Rob, you're not helping. You're not helping. Not helping at all. That's hilarious. Sorry, everybody. What are Mari and Jack talking about? I don't know.

I need a second to figure that out. You know, Marry's like, generally speaking, I'm like racist against any girder. She's just fucking bastard. He must have picked up on my racism when I brought him back. Because no one can fucking take a short walk off a tall cliff. Where's Elister now? He's keeping to himself. behind. And because you're the only one his size, I assumed because he was naked, you gave him

your spare tunic. No. No, it's just a naked tunic. My spare tunic? My precious pajamas? Me or Doran? Doran. No, Alex Guthrie's spare tunic. You or Doran. Look, there's a difference. And when she hit the ground and she made a sand. my older sister she leapt a mound and when she finally came around they had to look but certainly found a lifeless body pound for pound you could smell her you didn't need to be a hound she wasn't joking we surely weren't being clowned i lifted my hand and moved it around twisting my wrist in the air just like a toy that's been wound maybe never verbed but absolutely

Nouned. See how I verbalized noun? Oh, my God. Murray's trauma makes bizarre slam poetry. I should probably do more of a rap as opposed to just making fun of Nursal.