Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - 46: Do We Really Give Fewer F**ks With Age?

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

It’s all kicking off in this week’s Dig It. Fashion really does come full circle… except those 90s jumpers are somehow much tighter than we remember. Jo and Zoe wonder whether we truly care less as we get older, or if we’re actually more consumed than ever with looking after parents, kids and everyone in between. Also, Jo once again lives out all of our dreams by dressing as a Christmas tree and bravely entering a Christmas tree netting machine. Trust us, you’ll want to see this one. Watch or listen now — and head to YouTube for the full visual moment. DIG IT LIVE AT CROSSED WIRES PODCAST FESTIVAL Our first ever Digit Live is happening at Crossed Wires Festival in Sheffield on 5 July. Tickets available now and selling fast....  https://crossedwires.live/  SUBSCRIBE TO OUR FREE NEWSLETTER Stay up to date with Dig It — new updates every Friday straight to your inbox. 👉 https://digitpod.substack.com/subscribe GET IN TOUCH 📧 Email us: [e-mail] 📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795 💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795 SEND US A CHRISTMAS CARD Dig It C/O Persephonica F17/18, Leah's Yard, 22 Cambridge St,  Sheffield  S1 4HP⁠⁠ SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS This episode is brought to you by EE, Naked Wines, QVC, AG1 & Help For Heroes ✨Naked Wines works directly with independent winemakers to bring you high-quality bottles at honest prices. Each case is tailored to what you actually like, so you can skip the supermarket scramble and enjoy brilliant wines delivered to your door. New customers get £30 off plus six top-rated bottles for just £39.99, delivery included. Try it at www.nakedwines.co.uk/digit ✨AG1 has 70 plus high-quality ingredients including vitamins, minerals, botanicals and good bacteria to support immunity, energy and gut health. New customers get £20 off their first month plus a free welcome kit with a shaker, canister and scoop. Only valid in December.Try it at www.drinkag1.com/digit ✨QVC - Click below to discover QVC’s range of menopause products and support. And don’t forget to use the code QDIG10 for £10 off your first purchase (minimum spends apply, see QVC website for full terms and conditions) -   https://www.qvcuk.com/content/menopause-your-way.html?cid=PR-PR-Digit&e22=Digit 📶 EE - Whether you’re hosting or guesting this Christmas, stay connected with EE. Their broadband and mobile keep you covered with superfast speeds and rock-solid reliability - perfect for streaming, FaceTiming or gaming. Get ahead of the festive chaos and sort your connection early. For more, just search ‘EE Does More’.  CREDITS Exec Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Assistant Producer: Eve Jones Technical Producer: Will Gibson Smith Video Editors: Danny Pape and Jack Whiteside Dig It is a Persephonica production 

Coming up on Digit. I think it's the sandwich generation. That's where we are now. Yes. We're kind of looking off the kids. Caring for parents and kids. I'm looking forward to that era. Me too.

Maybe it will come and I really, I can't wait. Yeah. Will it come with my 80s? I feel a bit like bring it on. What else next? What next? Yeah, what next? Go on throw it at me.

I'm going to bat it off. I'm far. Judith is currently dressed as a turkey is passing his mom who is dressed as a Christmas tree through the Christmas tree netter. I did get stuck at this point. Ah! I love this. All of that, right after this.

So we have some very, very exciting news. We are taking Digit to the stage. Woo-hoo! Yes, we're going to be live in Sheffield at Crossed Wires on Sunday, the 5th of July. And if you haven't heard of Cross-Tires, it's basically the world's biggest podcast festival. People have called it the Edinburgh Fringe for Bres'Rewire's. podcasts, even the Glastonbury of podcasting. It is a whole weekend packed with live shows from some of your favourite podcasts. They take over venues across Sheffield. There are after parties, DJ sets, outdoor bars, food stalls and loads of free events too. And we'll be at the Crucible,

which is an iconic, intimate venue, the home of world snooker, will be properly up close with all our diggers. Now, Sheffield is right in the middle of the country and very easy to get two by train. So if you fancy making a whole weekend of it, you can. And the Peak District is right on the doorstep. Tickets are now on general sale for everyone and selling very fast, very flattering. We're thrilled. Whether you're a potting shed subscriber or not, if you're wanting, you can grab your seat right now. We cannot wait to meet you in the flesh.

All the details are there for you at crossedwires. Dot Live. We'll see you there. Hello, Joe, my darling. Hi, hello. Oh, look, we've both got Christmas jumpers on. Gone full out. I've managed to just about squeeze into my fairy tale of New York jumper, but I think this is going Nellie's way. I think one too many washes, a bit tight on the armpits. It's very funny. These are jumpers that were really cool in the 90s,

and I think we've both got a couple of them, because I've got one, the Jettem Jane as well. And I keep going to wear it because they're really cool. I keep going to put it on. I put it on. It's just too tight. I can't kind of move my arms anymore. Or maybe the jumper shrunk or maybe I'm just not the person I was. I think our shape changes slightly as you get older. You know, it's sort of around the boobage area, around your shoulders. And the arms, yeah. Okay, in your arms.

Yeah. Because you sort of think, oh, have I really filled out? But anyway, the good thing is we have our girls and they are always happy to receive our off cuts. Yes, they are. Who have you got on yours? Because my eyesight's really bad. Okay, I've got flea bag, flea bag. Flea bar humbug.

Yes. So I've got Phoebe. Phoebe Waller Bridge. Yes. I saw her in the street with her fabulous partner, Martin McDonough, who's the director. What a power couple they are because he directed three billboards and in Bruges and of course the banshees of Inesuring. They are sort of power. Anyway, I was like, saying hello to them in the street.

Something about amazing power couples. Another really cool power couple is Marcus Mumford and Kerry Mulligan. Oh, my Lord. They are like the chicest coolest couple, yeah, and kindest. They are so good, such good people. A power couple, not massively unlike yourself and disco Steve, who came out for the Digit Christmas lunch the other day. We had a lovely time with a whole team.

And we ended up outside a pub. You had to go and do your show. And we ended up outside a pub. And can I just say, I might have to pull you up, Joe Wiley, because you have wanged on about how Steve, you know, you were. he needs to up his fashion game. Well, I stood with Disco Steve and some of our fantastic young gang

who work on Digit and Ollie, very cool. Very cool. And the gang, they were looking at Steve's outfit and we're talking about his fantastic red wing shoes he had on is very cool jeans, which are not 501s, and his Goldwyn jacket, which is amazing.

I've learned all about Goldwyn and how I now need to buy some Goldman for the lodger. and he had some occasional green on. In fact, Meryl, who looks after me, thinks he needs to start a clothing brand called Occasional Green. And the team who are young and are down with the kids

were giving him a lot of props. So I think you might need to take that back. All right, all right. I'll take you back. I take it back. No, it's good. But it has, because I wanged on about it on the pod, he's now gone back into his wardrobe and he's discovered like his red wing shoes

because he used to wear those in the 90s. And he's taught me how much value for money they are throughout the entire weekend and how great they are. He's been much more adventurous since I've pointed out a couple of things this year. And he does look cool. He has got good style, I admit. Hands up. Brilliant. Hands up. Yes. Is he going to be getting a pink Damon Auburn Beanie hat under the Christmas tree? I've still got a little bit of Christmas shopping to do and that is top of the list. So I do. Just as a joke. Just as a joke, I've got to get that. Oh, brilliant. Big question on everyone's lips. Did you get into the party? Because I did

See, I was following your family correspondence on Instagram with Norman posting going, it's my house, I'll let you in, I'll get you in somehow. And then Nell going, no, Dad, she's not coming, which was very, very funny. Do you know what? It has been such a hilarious conversation. We've had so many comments on the Instagram feed of this with people on both sides here. But yes, Nell sort of having seen the comments from everybody else, deemed me important enough to go to the pre-drinks.

So I was allowed to pop in. Prinks. My friend, but yeah, is that what it is? Prinks. And my friend Beth had done all the decoration. Nicky had provided the balloon. Thank you, Nicky it, balloon-wise. And my mates, Kirsty and Ben were there, and they were setting it all up.

And Nell was really nervous. It is really nerve-wracking, isn't it, before a party? Oh, God. Yeah, terrifying. But she looked, dropped dead gorgeous. And all of us were in awe of the girls and their incredible legs and tiny skirts that they wear, those tiny little skirts. And midrifts to die for. They look so good. And I was quite glad to leave because I could feel Nail's nerves.

And I thought, right, everything's in place. And everyone was ribbing her. It's like, don't rip her. She's nervous. But I was getting updates. I was sent updates because my friends were all hiding upstairs. And then Woody arrived and he had to hide upstairs. So they were now to come down when he was on when he was DJ.

But it kicked right off. It looked amazing. And Norm DJed. Her boyfriend Jacoby, who is in absolute duty as the loveliest family, he DJed. And Nell even played some tunes as well. Oh, and her dad. So, and it all wrapped up at Harpast 11, and no one threw up. Hurrah.

Oh, amazing. Oh, my God. Yeah, I know. And then Wu came and stayed at mine. He ended up going clubbing. He called in going, Mom, we're going to go clubbing. I'll see you later. The energy of that boy.

That boy. And he came in about hot post four looking for antihistamines. Oh, God. I can't boss for in the morning, bless him. But it was his birthday this week as well. So Nell had her pre-birthday. Oh, this is a bit you can see here. This is my friend Beth said it all up.

Oh. I love that sign. Holy shit is 16. And Norm's shirt, isn't that amazing? Norm's shirt. Also, everyone thought it was hilarious because a picture of Woody with our friend Betty, but she is not his girlfriend. So they've known each other since they were tiny.

but they both wanted to point out that they have other partners because everyone's like oh and then I think a few people thought Betty was Nelly so it's been very successful and I got to see Woody before he headed back to Bristol where he's having a party where they're all wearing suits

and they're going old school and I was invited but I was like no son you go and enjoy yourself he's 25 I know Jude's got a birthday this week and he's going to be 27

which is mind blowing how has this happened Yeah, but Christmas birthdays are so challenging. They're so tricky, aren't they? My head is just spinning. It's like, how do I make this day really, really special for him? It's just a week before Christmas. But Christmas is everywhere and it just takes over, and it's really hard to know what to do. So, yeah, that's the challenge. Just try and make him have a really great birthday. God knows what we're going to do. Jude and Woody are very similar, I think. And Greg James has got the same birthday as Jude, and they're very similar. Oh, wow. And they're very similar. All these great Sagittarian. everywhere. Yeah, really outgoing, lively, restless souls. You did do something quite festive this weekend though. Where did you all go as a family? Oh, we went to our favourite Christmas tree place, which is called Thriftwood. And when we got there, we were, we had the last two trees at the place that sold out completely. This is a week before Christmas. But we've been there since Cocoa was about four years old. And we went and we sat in the sleigh. We've got photographs of the family sitting

in the sleigh, you know, over the years. Who's dressed as the tree? And it's me. I'm the tree. That's, yeah. That's brilliant. I bought loads of different festive hats this year because everything got really tattie last year and I was like, and fresh start. And then I saw this fancy dress outfit, which is a Christmas tree that you can wear. And it's tinsel and it sparkles and your face just pokes out of it. So I wore that. I was the Christmas tree, which meant that I had to then go through the netting machine. You know how when you buy a tree, you're like, I wonder what it feels like to go through the netting. To go through it? The netting thing. You did it. I did. Yes. How did it feel? Well, I got a bit to start. I'll be honest with you. They were going, Mum, go rigid. You've got to make yourself more rigid.

So I was there like kind of tensing every muscle in my body. And then they pulled me through and I was like, don't drop me. Hot off the press, just sent in from a great supporter of Digget. Disco Steve, I believe his name is, has actually sent us a video of Joe

going through the Christmas tree netter. I can't wait for this. You want that tree? Get that tree. Look at the hats. I'll get that tree. Oh my God. You're very rigid, Joe.

You are brilliantly rigid. Go on, Jude. Jude is currently dressed as a turkey, is passing his mum, who is dressed as a Christmas tree, through the Christmas tree netter to India in a Christmas tree hat. I did get stuck at this point. And Cass is wearing a reindeer hat, I believe.

Joe is now stuck. My God, we laughed so much. Can you shuffle? Can you shuffle, please, mum? They are dragging her out Don't drop her out. She's fragile goods. Joe now

Lying on the ground Completely netted. Honestly, it's like Christmas with the cranks. Honestly, it's like Christmas with the crank. You guys are so much love that film I think the feel like I've died It's slightly like awake Beautiful tree

Oh god we laughed so much My gorgeous kids My gorgeous family and Steve Oh I know They are so brilliant your kids You are Do you know what I know you've had a real tough year of it this year Joe

But you are Look at your You're still laughing You're still finding the joyous moment. We laugh through it because that's all he can do. You laugh through it. Exactly. What you've got to do. And how was the decorating of the tree together? Because I know that's a real moment for you guys. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. We had a really good time. Thank you. Christmas has officially begun. The major thing was the cats, because we've got Nemo,

who's just incredibly mischievous. And there were box wars going on between Kiki and Nemo. Because now she's tolerating him. But everywhere that she went, he wanted to go. So we've got all the boxes laid out on the table. And he just, wanted to be as close to her as possible. So she'd go in one box and then he'd go in a box really close to her. His best friend. And they're so cute together. I mean, yeah, there's still quite a bit of hissing, but we're getting there. It's taken six weeks to anybody else who's got a new kitten and you're stressing about how they're not being friendly. I really thought they weren't ever going to be in the same room. But at the moment, it's going okay, but it's

taken a good six weeks for her to stop chasing him around the house. And we're getting there now. Glad to see there is progress in the household. Also, um, I I've seen a lot of people putting up videos of kittens climbing and destroying Christmas trees. How is Nemo with yours so far? So far, so good. I'll be honest with you, we've got two trees. One is in the kitchen, which is medium size, and then there's one in the hallway, which is massive. Hasn't got anything on it yet.

That's my job after today. Okay. Everyone just leaves it up to me, so I'll be decorating that tree later on. Yes. So, and that's the one that he'll scale. That's the one that he's going to look at and go, whoa, this is going to be so much fun. God, yeah, you'll find him right at the top. further in storement with the snowman

had been eaten by all the mice. So the mice not only destroyed the snowman and ate half his body, also all the stockings, Christmas stockings. Oh no. We've had the same stockings year after year after year. Literally Steve's stocking, we've had it for maybe 25 years.

The mice have it now. They've literally eaten the foot off the stocking. So Steve's is the worst. India's was escaped and that's all right, but all the other stockings have just got massive holes in them. So my lesson is always seal your box when you put away your Christmas decorations because otherwise the mice will go in there

and they will just eat the darn lot there's honestly there's very little left in there so that's my Christmas disaster oh bless you but there's some very happy mice somewhere yeah very fat mice have slept very well you know if this was a Disney film they'd have made mini stockings out of the big stockings with their names on with their names on

beautiful if you've just found diggits then welcome we have two brand new episodes for you every single week. The fun never stops. Hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. I also watched a few films. Have you seen, I presume you have, you've seen loads. Borgonia. I watched that on Saturday nights. No, I've not watched it yet and I love Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons. Yeah. Is it bonkers? Absolutely. But beautifully shot. Oh my God, it looks incredible. And their performances, Jesse Plemans and Emma Stone, both of them, are, yeah,

off the scale. Like, you will love it. You will love it. I'm not going to say anything else. And then we watched Knives Out last night. Have you seen that? Oh, isn't it good? It's so good. I thought it was the best. I thought it was the best of the three of them. It's such a good who done it. It's such a good who done it. And there's some real jump scares in it as well. Oh my God. Yes. Yeah. I thought it was excellent. Yeah. I watched, I swear, last night, which I've not seen. Do you remember the documentary, John's Not Mad, about this fabulous character, John. who live with Tourette's. You might remember the documentary from quite a while ago.

Well, they made a film of the story of his life. And it is, so many people have told me it was really moving and funny. And, yeah, it's beautifully done. My sister's developed some Tourette's over the past decade or so. Yeah. Because she's got learning disabilities. She's, there are so many things going on with her. Like, she's got lots of things happening.

And then she started snorting. And when it first happens, she was just like, Yeah, Francis, why are you doing that? Initially, we were saying, stop doing it, stop doing it. Because we didn't understand. We hadn't, I mean, she'd never displayed anything like that before. And then it's only as there's been growing awareness of Tourette's that we've gone, oh, it's that. It's an element of Tourette's.

And she also wants to spit. And she has gone through phase. When she gets very agitated and she's anxious or angry, then she will do that. But, I mean, she hasn't done for a very long time. But she will, because, like, Christmas is coming. And when we were putting up Christmas tree at mum and dads the other day, loads of times. she kept going to spit and then she'd go, no, no. And so she'd calm herself down.

I was just so full of admiration for her that she was able, she knew that she was able to control herself to try and stop herself from doing it. It's been really interesting, really, really interesting. And you just, in the end, you just zone out and you tune out and she does what she needs to do. And that's absolutely fine, and you don't even notice it in the end. But in public places you do, it's quite a thing. I just want to say thank you to all the people who've commented about having older parents and having to care for parents

and people, other people who are siblings like me who are looking after aging parents and also a sibling who's got learning disabilities and all the complexities of what goes on and how Christmas makes everything more heightened and more difficult. And Digit have have so many lovely comments from people who are looking after parents,

who have lost parents and just struggling their way through Christmas. So we just acknowledge that and we send everybody love and we're all in this together and we'll get through it. I think it's something really found on Digit, actually. It's some of the conversations we have,

the amount of people who also want to share about their experience. And I think it's wonderful. You're talking about Francis and you've been talking about your mum and dad and how Christmas is quite tricky this year and all those complicated situations. So many people are like,

oh my goodness me, thank you for talking about this because that is our experience and that's what we're going through at the moment. And yeah, well done, Joe, for talking about that. Because I think it is the situation for so many people. I think it's the sandwich generation. That's where we are now. Yes. We're kind of looking after the kids. Caring for parents and kids. Yeah. I wasn't really aware of that term until recently. Me neither. Yeah. Sandwich generation. I guess it's only when

you're in it that you suddenly find your label and you're like, oh, this is what it's called then. It's interesting because there's this whole subject about the sort of as you get older, do you become a bit more, fuck it, you know, and you stop worrying about things. And there's been quite a few articles about this. Yeah, you give less fucks as you get older. And I've been thinking about this weekend thinking, actually, I don't know if that's true because you might care less about some of the daft stuff that used to worry about. But actually, there's loads of other stuff to worry about, you know, and whether it's our parents or you never stop worrying about your kids. I know lots of my friends have had really tough year this year, lots of people worrying about

money, people worry about jobs. So there's, you know, I guess I sort of as you come through menopause, I'm hoping there's this bit the other side where you're like, ah, fuck it, I don't care I look. Ah, fuck it. This is how life is in this way. But there is always still so much to worry about. I don't think there is. I think it just gets harder. Honestly, I think it just gets harder because you are, you know, you then have your children who have so many issues that you're trying to help them with as well and deal with. And then you have your parents. I can't see an end to it, to be honest with you. I can only see a time when you're supporting everybody around you always

because that's life. Life is fricking hard and painful and has lots and lots of issues and you just have to deal with it and you have to help people to deal with it and get through things. So I can't see when there's this magical rainbow moment when you're just going, oh, this is glorious, this is wonderful. I think that's maybe when you're in your

20s, when you think that life is hard, but actually it's kind of a different hard, it's not as hard as it's going to get. That's grim, isn't it? Sorry. Well, it is difficult though, but I know sort of amongst my mates that, you know, people have really struggled with so many different things this year and I'm so grateful

that we're all there for each other. I'm looking forward to that. Fuck it. Me too. Maybe it will come and I really, I can't wait. Will it come with my 80s? I feel a bit like fuck it, bring it on. What else next? What next? Yeah, what next? Go on throw it at me. I'm going to bat it off. It's like Indiana Jones sometimes, isn't it?

Like when the massive ball is running down the hill, you're like, for fuck's sake. Just trying to deal with this. Stay over there. We've had a voice note from Florence, Joe. Hi, Joe. Hi, Zoe. Firstly, thank you so much for the podcast. I love it.

The two of you together with Lauren LeVern have always been such female icons for me growing up. I'm currently in my mid-30s and I have a beautiful daughter, Sienna, who just turned four this week and who I solo parent currently. I work full time. I managed the hush puppies brand so here to help you with your search for loafers ladies

and funny enough we work really closely with the art house charity so I'm so pleased to hear you give the fabulous artists a shout out last week I know them well and love them all they're fabulous this summer I also bought a house for a really mature but really needy garden so I totally relate to all of your chat on the other listeners when it comes to work life balance mum guilt juggling all those different hats in life inspired by a big girl's steel pants So I spotted a sparkly positive pants badge in the shops the other day, which was made by Claire Makes. So shout out to her.

I wear that now with pride and think of you girls. Now my question was, as my daughter was born in December and combined with the fact that my repertoire of lullabies is pretty small, I ended up singing Sienna Christmas carols on repeat when she was first born. Unsurprisingly, it's now stuck. And four years later, we still sing Christmas carols all 12 months of the year at bedtime. My question for you would be which songs did you sing to your children when they were little. Have you still got any household favorites that everyone can recite now?

And of course, now we're approaching Christmas. What are your go-to carols? I'm wishing you both a very happy end to the year and Merry Christmas to all the other fellow listeners too. Thank you. Bye. Florence, that's how she made me really watery-eyed listening to that. I think it's the air conditioning in here or something like that. I don't know. Just so many things in that message, Florence, you gorgeous girl and you're solo parenting. and we can see a picture now if you can watch a podcast as a most amazing picture

of Little Sieno. She is completely adorable standing by a fabulous big Christmas tree. My mom used to sing us the Sky Boat song. Taking the Boat Sky. I shouldn't sing because I'm awful at singing. So she sang that to us and then so I would sing that to the kids

the Sky Boat song and we actually had it and mum's funeral, we had this really rousing Scottish bagpipe version that was amazing. I think it was actually from Outlander for TV show, but it was really moving as she was carried in, bless her. So, yeah, that was always a favourite. What do you sing to your kids? Oh, God, the only song that comes into my mind is when, I think I might have talked about this before, is whenever I used to wash their hair and I would always. tell them to look up. And so I'd sing

Coldplay, look at the stars. So I'd be like, look at the stars. I can't sing. See how they shine for you. And so I'd make them look up and they'd have their heads back. And so that was always our bath time song for all of them. I mean, not for India, but for Jude Cass and for Coco. So whenever they hear that song, they're like, oh, it's the washing hair in the bath song. Yeah. We also used to sing the song from the jerk that he sings. I think he's actually an old song, but in the

jerk, Steve Martin sings. I know. Oh, no, is it maybe Bernadette Peters. I know, I know you belong to somebody new. But tonight, you belong to me. Nobody but me. We sing that quite a bit. I'm really sorry about that performance. It's really actually very lovely. I've just remembered now. The key has unlocked the treasure trove, which is the world of Danny Kay, in which we lived and still lived to this day. So Fumbolina. I sing that to the kids. Fumbbellina. Fumbolina. Fumbolina. tiny little thing fumbelina dance fumbulina sing or what i could go on an inchworm which makes me cry inchworm oh why does inchworm make us cry the marigolds seems to me stop and see how beautiful you are yeah you can't sing really high i can't sing really well i've got my grandma's voice i can't believe i've just sung that was really bad i know what are we doing the kids will be mortified all our kids know Now, if you're looking for something properly festive to watch on Christmas Eve, this year's

together at Christmas Carol Service at Westminster Abbey is very much one to put in the diary. Early this month, Plansman and Gardner, Jamie Butterworth, was invited to create a natural Christmas installation for her Royal Highness, the Princess of Wales. And Jamie joins us on the phone right now. Hello, Jamie. Hey, how are you? We're good. How are you doing? I'm okay, thanks. We're going to talk about your.

amazing installation, if that's okay. Tell us more about this. You know what? We've had a year of the most incredible installations and events and shows the whole year's being a bit bizarre. And then in September, we were approached by the Royal Foundation to do an installation at Westminster Abbey for the Princess of Wales's Christmas Carouse Service. And I love Christmas. I love anything to do with this time of year. And the opportunity, to dress and create installation that one of the world's most iconic buildings was a privilege and we wanted to try and create something that really felt in line with the princess's love for nature, our love for nature, and fusing together and celebrating what gardens and British

woodlands and just all in all the very best of winter fused with that. joy of Christmas time and the whole theme for the Cal Service was loved. So we created a, albeit very temporary, of course, because it's on the steps of Westminster Abbey, coincidentally British, English, woodland, and to paint a picture for you, it was laden with birches and crab apples and rosets and hazels, and all these sort of trees that we celebrate throughout the rest of the

normally when they've got their leaves on them or they've blossomed, but actually I think there's something so beautiful about these trees in their naked, natural form, the white bark of the birch, the glistening red crab apples, the berries of the crab apples, the bright red of the rose. We want to try to keep it as natural as possible. And how wonderful that the palace wanted to do this, that they wanted to bring trees and foliage and have some kind of nature involved in the carol service. It's quite extraordinary. I think. It was, I think, brilliant on their part to have the foresight and the direction to do this. And the princess really does genuinely lead on all of TIFs, obviously she's got the most

incredible team around her, but I think this is one of her favorite events, favorite days of the whole year. And obviously, she brings the whole family along. Obviously, the princess is well known for her, for her love of nature. So it felt really right to try. and bring a slice of nature in this and this most wonderful time of year to her car service. Also, those 1,600 people were invited on the merit of what they'd done for their local community or something incredible. These were the most incredible people from across the nation. So to create this walkthrough for them, so they felt immersed in sort of this woodland as they then entered into the abbey. And the abbey, my goodness, was dressed so beautifully as well.

It's wonderful, isn't it, to celebrate those people who really make a difference to so many people's lives. And, you know, it's so wonderful when we're surrounded by a year of terrible news around the world and here in the UK. And you've got to remember that all the while there are good people doing incredible things for very little recognition, but they're just looking after people. and how lovely to have a moment to celebrate them as well at such a beautiful event. And Jamie, what an incredible year you have had. Doing the dog garden with Monty and Joe and Radio 2. It has been fabulous. Your nursery is stunning.

I got to visit this year. I know Joe got to visit. And it's being quite incredible for you this year. You must be exhausted at the end of it. And you got married, Jamie. You got married as well. We should throw that in. You've had all the highs and the lows.

It feels like the longest year I've ever had in the most brilliantly magical way. I feel so lucky. I'm a gardener. I love plants. I love people. And this year has been incredible in the opportunities that I've had to fuse something that I love and feel so passionate about. But working on some of the most incredible, the dog garden feels like years ago. I know. Yeah, doesn't it? But very special, so special. Do you know what? I feel I've got a meeting this afternoon with the RHS about next year. They're coming to Francis Toppil who's doing the RHS garden next year. He's coming to look at some plants this afternoon for her garden next year. And I almost feel like I'm, A, I'm really excited because you're looking ahead to next year, but I feel like I'm cheating on you and Monty.

Because it was all of us having those conversations. Oh, God. I knew when it was happening that it was going to be a once-in-a-lifetime experience and I would never have it again. And so I made sure that I cherished every single second. So every meeting we had, the time that we came to the nursery, the time spent with Monty. I just, I knew, I knew that I had to savour it. And it will remain one of the greatest things that I've ever been involved with. It was just so lovely. And we had Brodie and Hector there, which was fantastic. The timing could not have been better, really, could it? It was so, I don't think, lucky, but so joyous to have both Brody and Hector there on the dog garden. And also, yes, it was a dog garden.

Yes, it was Monty, but I think the bit that resonated the most of people, and the one thing that Monty said from the very beginning is it was a garden that was designed to bring joy to people. And just as the Westminster Abbey installation did or the garden at Chelsea, actually, it resonated and cut through more than just been garden. I think that's why we remember it so fondly because it was it was joyless and it was fun and it made people smile and yeah, it was it was a privilege to be involved in something as special as that but also like you say to have Brody on Hector there and those memories will yeah, it makes it even more special. It does and also you bought a book out. I've just remembered and all of that and you had a book out. I know I've been ridiculous hasn't it? I know I'm very much

looking forward to having a few weeks off over Christmas to look back and remember everything that's happened this year I've gone well that's going to take some beating and then and then and then and then the book comes out or like I got married and every everything it's being like well what's next? Yeah. I don't think that will ever be beaten and then something comes along and like oh my goodness and it was I remember after the book came out and I thought okay that that is me done for this year I'm just going to go back to normal stuff and then we took over

a second nursery and then the Princess of Wales of tea and got in search and it's just been one thing after another after another

but in the most joyous, wonderful, magical way. You're young, you've got to cherish all those moments, Jamie. And they're going to keep coming. They really are.

I was quite excited talking about you watching you on Gardner's World the other night. And the lodger was saying he's rather fabulous. The lodger is new to Gardner's Wells

and he's, It's been a bit of an epiphany. And he's doing up his, he's got a little yard in his house. And I showed him your book the other day because I went, what you need because he's starting to do the planting plan. And he's only got a little space. It's like, you need Jamie's book. Because the book is so brilliant where you've done a great thing of putting plants that

go together that you can have in a small space or you can repeat. And it's really, really clever. So, yeah, he's definitely getting your book for Christmas. Thank you. that's really kind. I just want as many people to garden as possible and try to get rid of as many barriers as possible to people. Remind us of what it's called, Jamie, the book?

It's called What Grows Together? Amazing stocking filler. Well, hopefully. I think so, genuinely. And the other nice thing that you can do when you buy the book is if you're buying it for someone, you could buy three of the plants that go together as a little thing. That's actually something that I'm getting for someone.

So you get a little three of the, the plants so that there's their little start to that process. That would be a lovely Christmas gift and I'm now going to go and tell my marketing team that because they haven't thought of that. Just to let people know that the Carol Service that we've just been talking about, the Christmas Carol Service at Westminster Abbey, we can all enjoy it. We can see Jamie and his amazing team's work. It's going to be broadcast on ITV, 725 on Christmas Eve.

Merry Christmas to you and Devin and OLLI as well. Well, Jamie, thanks for inspiring us all. You're an absolute magic man. Merry Christmas. So are we enjoying. That's all we have time for today. Remember, if you want all our reviews and recommendations for free and all in one place, sign up to our free Substack newsletter. We'll send you a weekly email with everything from the show every Friday. And the link to sign up is in the show notes. We're back again on Monday for a dig-in. special with our wonderful guest, Martha Collison.

Contact us. Our WhatsApp and our email addresses are in the show notes. And if you're loving the podcast, please leave us five stars on Apple or Spotify with a little review. It really helps other people to find the show. Thank you. Bye. Take care, darling.