Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - 61: DIG IN: Mangetout Cats and the World’s Best Sister

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

It’s February. Praise be. Jo and Zo kick off with the brutal truth about running (sometimes you feel like a gazelle, sometimes you feel like a fridge). Lauren asks how honest to be with kids when you’re struggling, Claire’s facing redundancy at 54 and the merch ideas are getting delightfully out of hand. Watch or listen now.SUBSCRIBE TO OUR FREE NEWSLETTERStay up to date with Dig It — new updates every Friday straight to your inbox.👉 https://digitpod.substack.com/subscribeGET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by QVC &  Ancient + Brave✨QVC – Click below to discover QVC’s range of wellbeing products and support. And don't forget to use the code QDIG10 for £10 off your first purchase (minimum spends apply, see QVC website for full terms and conditions) https://www.qvcuk.com/content/health-and-fitness.html?cid=PR-IF-Digit&e22=janwellbeing ✨Ancient + Brave – This January isn’t about being “good”, it’s about having energy that actually lasts. Ancient + Brave’s True Creatine+ supports strength, cognition and steady energy without the jitters or crash. It’s neutral tasting, dissolves easily and fits effortlessly into real life. They’re also a certified B Corp and members of 1% for the Planet, so it’s good for you and good for the planet too. Subscribe and save 20% on your monthly wellness rituals, plus get a free ritual scoop. Head to ancientandbrave.earth to get started.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Danny PapeDig It is a Persephonica production

Coming up on Digit. You've been really honest and you share how brutal grief is. Like, it absolutely fucking rocks your world. It does. The woes and responsibilities and the hard life that you have if you are the eldest daughter in a family. Go on India. I'm an eldest daughter. I hear you, girl. We've had so many excellent ideas.

We've got the tote bag. K-ring bracelets. See, I went and saw my mum and dad. They watch it on their massive television. And I was like, oh my God. They're listening to us talking about. about those rings. I cannot possibly say that word again. All of that, right after this. It's February, Joe, at last. Oh, thank God for that. Praise be. Hallelujah. I thought it was

never coming. I thought it was never coming. Valentine's Day is only days away. How lovely is that. Just to put you in a spin. The thing that I love is it's nearly March. That's what I love. Hey, how's the running going? Oh, God. Funny you should ask. Funny you should ask because Disco and I went on a run over the weekend. I cannot believe the contrast in the run that I did like a few days ago and then the next run I did, which the first one felt really good. I felt like a, almost like a gazelle. I skipped so long. It was all right.

And I laughed at Steve and I felt I was really cocky. That was my downfall because then I did a run with him. And I couldn't keep up with him and it was horrible. Every single foot was hard to place in front of me. I couldn't breathe. I just felt heavy. I felt sluggish. All the while I was running, I was just like, oh my God.

God, I really hate running. I've forgotten how much I hate running. Am I ever going to like running? That was my question. I don't know if any runners are watching this now or listening to this. If you are, how do you deal with this? I did have a Jack Daniels a night before, and I hadn't had much breakfast. Before you ran? No. Maybe that would have helped if I had. Yeah, maybe it's what you put in. But I had a Jack Daniels night before. And then in the morning, I only had a banana. But I hated it. I had a really horrible run. And I don't know what makes a horrible run and what makes an OK run. You're Joe Wiley of Couch to 5K.

You've helped everyone else. You've helped everyone else enjoy running. I know, I know. And Coucher 5K is the best app in the world. If you want to get yourself some rehab or you want to get fit, you want to start to become a runner, you want to do half a marathon at some point. It's a brilliant, brilliant app. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I still struggle with running.

You know, I was never a great runner. And I still find it really hard. But when I've done a run, I feel fantastic. Give me half an hour afterwards. I am so happy I've done that run and that is that's my motivation and I know that's why I will carry on running. It just must be sometimes things we've eaten, how much sleep we've had, how worried we are about how distracted we are. You know, we know that our hormones go up and down every single day. So our whole sort of physiology must change from day to day. And it's almost like

you need everything to be in line for all those things to be perfect sometimes. Wights and gym work. I never feel bad. I always, even if I'm in a bad mood. And I go to the gym and I do weights. I think that's absolutely fine. It's anything that's kind of sprint, anything that is aerobic. That's the stuff. If you're not in the right headspace for that, that can be difficult. Anyway, enough of us.

Let's move on to our lovely diggers who've been in touch. And Lauren sent us an email. Lauren wrote, I've had quite a rough start to 2025 with a mental breakdown at the beginning of the year. Panic attacks, crippling anxiety, insomnia, all of which I put down to a few serious health issues that we have going on in my family. I was put on antidepressants and saw a really good therapist, which helped a lot. I started listening to your podcast during summer, which helped me so much just to have a good laugh and not to feel alone. And during this time, I noticed there was a

pattern appearing with my anxiety. It wasn't until I listened to your podcast with Dr. Naomi Potter that I realized there may be an issue with my hormones. I'm 39, so my GP said I was just too young to be perimenopausal, and it was just anxiety. Then I went to see another GP, and she thinks differently. So I've started HRT, and I'm going to see how I get on over the next few months. Throughout all of this, my eight-year-old son has been amazing and seen his mummy in a few states. There must have been quite frightening for him. But I didn't want to hide anything from him, and I explained what was happening so that he knew it was nothing to be afraid of, and that it was just mummy's silly hormones playing up. My question to you is, when you have been through a tough time, have you hidden

it from your children or have you shared it with them. Thank you both for keeping me smiling on the rubbish days. Lauren, hopefully you'll keep on listening to us and we will keep you smiling. And I know the days can be dark and the days can be troubling and there can be a challenge at times and you're not alone. That's the most important thing that you're not alone. There is a reason for this and maybe it is your hormones, but we are really happy that you're one of our diggers. So we're sending you lots and lots of love. And I don't know about you, though, but I find it very difficult to hide things. I really try and suppress my emotions quite a lot for time. when there's been something going on.

But quite often it's very transparent and I think it's kind of wrong to hide things in a way because the kids need to know and it helps them to understand why you're behaving the way you're behaving and then it's not so scary and it kind of contextualises

why you are behaving in the way that you are. Quite often for me, when there's been stuff going on, I just, I can't suppress the tears. I just cry. There's nothing I can do on earth. And if I do try and not to cry, the kids just look at me and they're like,

mum, just cry. because we can see that you're trying not to cry and you look ridiculous. So just let it out. And so they almost give me permission to actually acknowledge the feelings that I've got and I will just howl and then feel a lot better afterwards. But I think it's fine to be open and upfront with your kids. And then you're all in it together in a way. You're just battling things together. Absolutely. And I think that you being honest and open and not being afraid to show your emotions or talk about, you know, the wise, certain things are happening. And you can judge how much detail you go into with your kids about what they need to know and what they don't need to know. But I think teaching them that it's good to talk about your emotions and be open about things and have a family where you can discuss things only sets them up in life for them growing up as well. You know, just being able to know that they can then talk about things and that it's okay because life is really tough and stuff comes up and it's good to be able to talk about things like that.

Lauren, I'm so sorry you've been having such a hard time. It really sounds like you've been through it. But let us know, Lauren, how you get on. And I really do hope that those hormones can make a difference. Anxiety was my biggest stress with menopause. If you do find that it is peri menopause and if it is a hormone thing that you're going through, I think a lot of women, the anxiety is crippling. It really is. So I hope you get somewhere with it. I love that my kids will talk to me about their, emotional stuff as well because they know they can. Yeah. And I'm a bit like you. I can't really disguise stuff. Yeah. You know, if I'm if I'm moody or tearful or things, you know, you can sort of try, can't you to paint over it. But after a while, it's just got to come out. So it will come out in front of the kids. So it's often better to pre-warn them that it's like, look, everything is all right. There's just

some stuff I'm worrying about. I'm struggling a bit with this at the moment. But it's all going to be, I think it's just reassuring them as well. It's all going to be okay, but this is happening at the moment and just want you to know what's happening. And then they feel they can talk to you as well. It's heartbreaking sometimes when your kids, you can see they're upset because they know you're upset. I had that recently over Christmas time with my parents and everything that was going on. And Coco just made some comment about how everything was terrible and it was just so much stuff to worry about. And, you know, you're really upset about grandma and granddad and about Francis. And I just suddenly felt, okay, right, I've gone too far. I need to rein it back and I need to be strong.

And it was good. It was a proper wake-up call to just like, okay, get your up together. That's exactly what my mum would have done. So it's a fine line. It's a fine line between sharing and being open and then also going, okay, I've got to be the adult in this situation. And reassure, like you say, just go, it's fine. It's all containable. I'm overwhelmed at the moment, but it's not a permanent state. I will get through this. And it's okay, I can deal with it. Whatever is going on. It's going to be fine. I'm just, you know, a bit sad about it at the moment. I think it's fine to acknowledge that. And then just to be, you know, the grown-up, the reassuring grown-up in the scenario.

It's hard. Yeah, because you don't want the kids to have to be the adults. It's something you have to remind ourselves all the time. It's like let the kids be kids. My favorite thing is getting all the messages from India, who is my eldest daughter now and all the ones about the woes and the woes and the whos and the hard life that you have, if you are the eldest daughter in a family. And they have to, you know, they have to parent the parents, they have to parent the other children.

It's just like the most difficult place in a family scenario you could possibly be. And the eldest daughter is the absolute warrior and the hero within the family. Go on, India. I'm an eldest daughter. I hear you go. I know. We just swap these. We send these things back and forth all the time. And I'm like, no, no, no. Actually, I am the adult in this family. I am the mum in the family. She's like, yeah, whatever, you might think you are. You're not at all. It's me. So I let her have that. I love that. And this is why we do the podcast, isn't it, Joe? we do this podcast to talk about things that come up for us, that come up for our diggers,

because sharing those issues and those problems, if that helps one other person go, hang on a minute, this is what's going on with me. It's such a lovely community to have. And we do love the fact that you trust us with your stories and the things that are happening to you, Lauren, so good luck with it. Let's know how you get on. And I hope things are brighter for you. And well done for talking to your wonderful eight-year-old who's very, very proud of his mommy, I imagine. If you're loving diggits, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you watch or listen. That way, you get new episodes delivered directly and never miss a moment. Okay, we have a text from Claire.

Hi, Claire. She says, hi, Zoe and Joe, thank you so much for the podcast. I absolutely love it and can't wait to listen every week. I feel like I've got two new besties in my phone. Great to hear that, Claire. I learned last week that I'm being made redundant. Oh, gosh. So I'm having to think seriously about what.

to do next. I'm 54 and have been working as an assistant marketing manager for a software company. I originally trained in marketing, re-trained as a teacher 14 years ago, but found teaching too stressful and returned to marketing. Over the years, marketing has changed a lot. I feel's far less creative now, more of a numbers game. Oh, I can imagine that. And I've become quite disillusioned with it. I'd really love to do something more creative and work fewer hours. I definitely don't want to work full time anymore as I find it too tiring. My husband and I feel like we're too young to retire just yet, but we'd like to stop working before 60 and enjoy travelling while we still feel fit enough to do it.

We've got two sons, one is independent and the other is in his final year at university. any thoughts on how to approach this next chapter. It's an interesting chapter this, because this is a conversation that's going on with a lot of my friends as well. You know, in sort of 50s, looking at 60s, looking at what our parents have gone through. Half of you thinking, really like to retire and have some adventures because you're busy raising your kids or working very stressful jobs. And lots of people I know who've had stress. or jobs and just can't do that anymore because it's just too much and have to step back a bit. It's a hard one. I've got quite a few friends who've been made redundant and they've been trying to get jobs and it's, you know, talk about age discrimination. They've found it incredibly hard to even to get a callback or to get a reply from an email because I think their age counts against them. And it's heartbreaking. I mean, you know, they're going through real hardship and also facing rejection because of the age they are. So that's very, very tough as well. But you can retrain. I mean, in, you know, know, disco retrained. He does a couple of different things now. And it came through COVID when he

decided that he just wanted to stimulate his brain to do something different to have a new skill. So he retrained and the job that he does now as well as his music stuff is something he can do on Zoom. So he's got an office at home and he can work and he does all his stuff on Zoom. And it's been amazing. It's been such a turnaround in his life. It's enriched it so much because I think as you get older, it's, you know, your brain can slow down a bit, can't it? And you can opt out and you can sit on Instagram all day long and scroll. But he's got, like, he's having to think really quickly all day long. And he's always constantly reading books and having very, very intense discussions with people. And he's found it incredibly enriching, really. So I think, you know, retraining for something. Just think outside the box. Think about the things that you appeal to you. Yeah. Or things that you really like doing. You're good at. Yeah. I mean, Steve's good at talking and that's what his new job is. Yeah. So, sort of wage-wise, is. well, you might not get the wage that you'd have had in a marketing job because there are some jobs that are high stress and like you say have really changed, that environment has really,

really changed. So you might find something that's perhaps not bringing in the same wage, but would bring you in enough to support you and fill your time and make you quite happy. And where, you know, I know lots of people who've done, you know, I was saying about the RHS gardening course. Yeah. I know lots of people who've got more involved in jobs within the community and volunteering and other sorts of things like that. But yeah, so perhaps the key is to look at the things you really enjoy and maybe look at, you know, doing something along those lines. If I ever did anything different, I'd probably be to be a gardener and I would do the RHS course because I know I'd be happy. I know I'd be happy outside doing anybody's garden. I really wouldn't

mind at all. So it's just looking to your strengths and looking at what makes you happy. I want to work in the garden centre. Yeah. If they'll have me, I mean, the guys I'd see in the garden centre every 20 minutes, because I'm always in there, I've joked with me, you could work in here. I used to say that about wanting to teach. And then all my friends who are teachers laughed at me and said, you could not cope. It is the most stressful job in the world being a teacher, the resources, the paperwork. So I stopped saying that. Oh, my God. I have so much respect for teachers. So much respect. Blimey. So any tips from Diggers for Claire, encouraging anyone had a career change, step back, retrain.

who might have some advice or inspiration for Claire, we'd love to hear from you. Yes. Should we take a break? If you'd like these episodes, ad-free, become a subscriber to the potting shed. You'll get ad-free and early episodes. But most importantly, you'll be supporting the show. To subscribe, head to digipod.com.com. Or tap the link in the show notes.

As ever, our brilliant diggers have been in touch. And here we have a voice note from Lorna. Hi, Joe. Hi, Zoe. It's Lorna here. Oh, my God. I've just had to, like, point. Paul's the podcast because I was crying with you at that wonderful story that was shared about the lovely lady outfeeding the birds.

Thank you so much for giving people the time and space to share this because I was blubbing up because it was making me think of my lovely mum and dad who are no longer here. My mum was 71 when she died very suddenly and Zoe I saw your and read your Sunday Times piece yesterday and my goodness, really, really, really connected with it because what I want to say thank you to you for doing is like, you've been really honest and you share how brutal grief is, like it absolutely fucking rocks your world. Just lighten the mood a little bit. My friend's just got a ginger cat that looks like your new ginger cat, Joe. I was saying, oh my God, this looks exactly like Joe Wiley isn't.

new cat that's on the podcast and my friend's looking at me like what's going on what you're talking about and i said yeah her cat though she thinks he might be a mongue too i soon realized i meant mangoon but anyway thank you again for the podcast i've gone from grief to calling a cat mongch too that's what i love about dig it oh also a tote bag would be great i think you know you've said a about that a tote bag would be lovely anyway i'm awfully none like i did some a little WhatsApp group I better get back to work. Take care. Bye.

Oh, Lorna. Amazing. Thank you. Big hearted love to you, Lorna. You're so much there. I might rename Nemo. Monch too, Rodney. Monshto, Munch too.

Monshto. Yeah, might call him that. Can I just say such good merch idea? Because we've had suggestions of seeds, which I was discussing with a fam yesterday and everyone thought seeds a really good idea. And tote bags. Toot bags are great because they're very useful.

We can make a really cool, because you always reach for the cool tote bag, don't you? The ones that you're not so fond of are always the ones that are scrunched up at the bottom of the box, and there are about three that you have on circulation. So the mission is to make the coolest tote bag that we possibly can, and then everybody will use them, and then we'll see them all around, and we'll know who our diggers are. So it's got to be a cool tote bag. That would be lovely.

And yeah, I do wish that someone has warned us that ginger cats are absolutely insane. I've never seen a cat move the way Nemo does. He literally just like hops like this kind of weird creature, and then move so fast and pounces on Kiki, poor Kiki, who eventually loses her rag. But God, he's amazing. He's brought us so much happiness. I cannot tell you, thank God for Nemo. He's been brilliant, just the tonic.

By the way, we've had so many excellent ideas. So we've got the tote bag. We've also got Step Louise, who said how about doing a trolley token? The next one you can read out, Zoe. Oh, Helen 19Gale creates, says cockering bracelets. See, I went and saw my mum and dad over the weekend and they watch it on their massive television in their small room and they watch us on YouTube and I was like, oh my God,

they're listening to us talking about those rings. I cannot possibly say that word again. I'm going to let Zoe always address that. Maybe we should have the parental guidance thing at the beginning of every episode. Do not listen to this with your parents in the same way that you should not watch heated rivalry next to your children. Raha Tala suggested Digit branded HART patches

Can you dig it? Yes you can Very good idea Love that SnuLand 97 said Foxglove seeds would be great especially because its posh name is Digitalis

Digit Tullis Got it! Look at this! Oh Snewland Thank you very much for all the garden inspiration by the way and Pixie Lizards

says how about T-shirts with a cartoon version of your dolls at their most altered with the legend styled by Nemo. That's very cute. We're still absolutely bold and looking very battered. I need to go to the hairdressers,

Jennifer Jackson Dole's hairdressers, and we need our hair back. I'm looking up there because they're just behind me and I can't put them on show because we look so bad. Totally disheve it. It's like a night after the Brits. And AM has sent us in her merch idea.

Hello Zoe and Joe. Thank you so much for your wonderful podcast. I just have to say that I listen to it every single week. I'm a psychotherapist and have been in the psychotherapy industry for a long time now. And I love your sensitive approach to your listeners. But on another note, I think I'm some sort of frustrated advertising exec in a previous life. And I love the idea of your merch. And my idea would be, I've never delved into my gardener.

very much and don't have, I'd be a real starter and don't have any gardening tools at all. So something like a small set of dig it gardening tools for the starter gardener or somebody who was, you know, great in their garden and just needed a new set. So that would go down well. But also, I love your ladies' jumpers. And I just thought like maybe a fine knit for spring and summer and a heavier knit for winter. and on the front, I've thought about a strap line for you, and that could be dream it, dig it, do it. So, and I envision that the dig it would be in large letters.

Keep going with your wonderful podcast. Okay, speak soon. Bye-bye. Oh, my God. You have really thought about that. Isn't that wonderful? Yeah. Also, AM very sexy radio voice, very lovely podcard voice.

I reckon you could do audiobooks with that wonderful voice. And they are such great ideas. Oh, I like the knitwear. The knitwear. So if we do the gardening set, they would have to be in the most vivid colours because obviously we know you lose your secretors, you lose your hoary, hoary. You lose all those things like every other week when you go in the garden. So it would have to be something that was like a lurid pink or purple or just some very vivid colour so that it stands out in the garden. So that would be one stipulation.

By the way, hi to the Reiki Room UK who says a bag for life. See, now this is popular. Don't disturb me. I'm shopping for plants or something like that written on it. And what Katie did 82 says, what about a dig it grow along? People can order a bundle of differences to sew along at the same time as you guys. Also, you definitely need Digit steel pants t-shirt. Oh, brilliant.

Right, we need to have a meeting with the Digit gang, sit down with these merch ideas and hopefully have some news for you all soon. Maybe we could do sweatshirts in the Harry Styles kind of fashion. So it could be, I'm trying to think what the slogan would be. It would be something like dig occasionally hurt all the time or ache all the time. Yes, ache all the time. All the time. That was brilliant. Don't we love our diggers?

I love these messages. And it's so good to know that the stuff we wang on about does resonate. Because it's funny, Joe sits in our room and I sit in my room. We have these little chats and you think, say, anyone listen to this. It's just to chat nonsense. And it really means a lot to know that we have got a really lovely community out there. And it is meaning something to people. And if you ever see us, feel free to come and talk to us as well because it happens quite a lot.

And it's just so lovely to put faces to names. And it's like a good conversation is really welcome. I met the most gorgeous digger the other day. She'd just come out of me and M. And I looked at her bag. I was like, oh, I might have to go to me and M now. And she was in a pink coat. She was absolutely gorgeous.

And she said alone, she loves the podcast. We've got one final voice. note and this is a really lovely message and this is from Lindsay. Hi Zoe and Joe, it's Lindsay here. I'll try and send this message without crying, but I'll give it a go. I was just wondering if you could give the biggest of all shoutouts on your show to my sister, Lorna, because on Friday, the 23rd of January, she saved my husband's life by donating a kidney. Just watching the whole process is, I still can't comprehend it. I was unable to donate and then She did the most courageous of things and sort of stepped up and said she'd get tested and

it all happened. I just wanted to know how much I love her and what an absolutely superhuman being myself and my three children think that she is. I mean, words can't even express our gratitude. She's just one in a million. I'd also like to say thank you to all the surgeons and the staff who sort of were doing what they do best. As a sideline, as you're both music lovers, and this is the part where I'll probably cry,

we found out that as the kidney was taken from Lorna and Placed into John, the surgeon was playing McCallmont and Butler's Yes. So whilst I know this is essentially about a breakup, just the chorus of, yes, I do feel better is so fitting. So I listen to your show all the time, and I'd absolutely love for you to just give her a shout out, because it would mean the world to me. Thank you. Oh, I'm above.

That is love, isn't it? That's complete. What an incredible thing to do. You can save someone's life. Yeah, of course you would do that, but it's still a very scary and very brave and very wonderful, wonderful thing to do. Oh my God, yeah. And mind-blowing that this can happen. Isn't it? Science has advanced this much.

But yeah, Lindsay, it's our absolute pleasure to do that for you. Yeah. And all the love to your sister. I send you all so much love. and thank you of my mascara is everywhere. On that note, do get in touch to those. We love hearing from you diggers. You can find out how in the show notes.

And Joe, have a terrific week. And fingers crossed. Yeah, enjoy your week. Just enjoy February. Now January is gone. Yay. Maybe the sunshine's coming. Thanks for listening.

Lots of love. See you all. Bye. Bye. Digit is a Persefonica production.