Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - 72: DIG IN: School Anxiety, Lost Toy Stories, and Ending Period Stigma

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

In this week’s Dig In, Becki’s asking for some advice on how to help manage her son’s anxiety about going to school. Jo and Zo share some of your amazing stories about rescuing beloved lost toys. Plus - we’re joined by Dr Natalie Brown to talk about the research she’s been doing into improving period education.You can watch the Bodyform ‘Never Just a Period’ advert that Jo & Zoe discuss here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpFYcj2sJ3A To find the education resources Natalie mentions, head to: https://www.periodeducation.org/resources GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by Saily, NS&I and Ancient + Brave✨ Traveling soon? Saily is an easy-to-use eSIM app that lets you download a digital SIM straight to your phone before you travel. No fiddly plastic cards and no eye-watering roaming charges. Just choose your destination, buy a data plan and you’re connected the moment you land. It works in over 200 destinations worldwide. Use code DIGIT for 15% off your first purchase at checkout. Download Saily via the App Store. https://www.saily.com/digit ✨ NS&I - Got plans for the future — whether it’s helping the kids, renovating the house, or finally sorting that savings pot? NS&I has been helping people save for over 160 years, and every pound you invest is 100% backed by HM Treasury. Start your savings journey today at https://www.nsandi.com/✨Ancient + Brave – This January isn’t about being “good”, it’s about having energy that actually lasts. Ancient + Brave’s True Creatine+ supports strength, cognition and steady energy without the jitters or crash. It’s neutral tasting, dissolves easily and fits effortlessly into real life. They’re also a certified B Corp and members of 1% for the Planet, so it’s good for you and good for the planet too. Subscribe and save 20% on your monthly wellness rituals, plus get a free ritual scoop. Head to ancientandbrave.earth to get started.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanProducer: Samantha PsykAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Danny Pape and Jack Whiteside

Coming up on Digit. It's so upsetting, isn't it? When you as a parent are getting upset, you're at your wits' end. And you just don't know how to help. And you don't know if you're doing the right thing? Yeah. Boyfriends used to buy me cuddly toys. I don't know whether these men used to think that I needed some kind of father figure or something about it. How weird.

I can look after myself. I'm a strong independent woman. Thank you very much. When I go to bed and I actually still cudd-o cuddly toy. Make sure you put an air tag in its bottom. I remember someone saying that to me in a meeting. Oh, have you got your period? And I slammed my fist down. You wouldn't say that to Chris Evans? All of that right after this. Hey Joe, should we dig in? Yeah, let's do that. Our first question is from Becky. She says, I've just listened to Joe talking about her sister's dread of going back to the care home. Although my situation is different, this really resonated. I have a son who's developed anxiety related to going into school since lockdown. He was in year three then. Now he's in year eight.

Sundays are particularly hard getting him into bed and to sleep because he knows if he goes to sleep he'll wake up and have to go to school. During half term, he said he was dreading going back after the holidays, bless him. He has regular therapy, but how I manage it is the challenge. I try to empathise, but I have to be firm sometimes and often end up crying once he's in school. I'm also exhausted, as is he, by the lack of sleep, which really doesn't. to help. If any diggers have any thoughts, suggestions and advice, it would be gratefully received. Becky, I'm so sorry that you and your lovely chap are going through this at the moment. That sounds like a really tough situation all round. Gosh, doesn't it just? It really does. I remember when I was

young, I must have been 10 or something, my best friend develops school anxiety. And I remember her mum handed her over to my mum because it was just too difficult to get Lindsay to get into school. So she used to drop her off at our house. And God, I remember being literally in the bathroom with Lindsay attacking the walls, attacking the doors, and we had to drag her out and try and get her to school. It's a really, you just brought back that memory for me, but she just couldn't face going to school. And she was hysterical. And I do get this, you know, like I shared last week with my sister, that Sunday is horrible. I found my mum last night and all I could hear in the background was France was going, not go to, not go back, not go back, not go back. And I know that

she will have been doing that all day long and it's really difficult to manage. And I shared last week, I think, that I find that I end up being somebody that I'm not particularly. And I feel I have to be so firm because it's the only way just to calm her down. And I guess I feel like it sets a boundary so that she knows it's going to have to happen. No matter what, no matter how many times she says I'm not going back. It's like, no, you are going back and that has to happen. Inside, you feel sick. You feel really sick because you don't want to make her unhappy.

and that, Becky, is exactly how you'll be filling with your son. So I don't have, I'm not an expert, I haven't got the advice to give you, and I'm really hoping that I diggers, somebody will come in, step in now, and they'll tell us bits of advice or what they've been through themselves. It will help you, Becky, because, you know, like you say, sleep deprivation is a really tough thing. It means that your mind doesn't function, you're not functioning. All the emotions are really, really raw. You kind of find it hard to make decisions.

So you must be in such, just such a state, I'd imagine, by the time it gets to Monday. and he's finally gone off to school. A really good friend of mine, she has this every morning with her daughter getting her to school and sometimes she'll be like, it's just exhausting. And it's exhausting for both of them.

I think this is the thing. Becky, it's exhausting for you and for your son. And it just seems a shame there's no other way of doing it sometimes, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, I've said it to my kids.

You have to go into school. You have no choice. Has anyone found another way for kids who really struggle in this way, you know, because it's really hard sometimes to understand what your child's going through and it's very hard for them. They don't have to be the grown up. They have to be the child. But sometimes, you know, you want them to understand that you're only trying to do the right thing and that's difficult for you as well. I wonder whether it's good to get a bit of support

for the both of you to sit and talk to someone so that you can talk to each other with the help of someone else and get to the root of where it's coming from as well. It's so upsetting, isn't it? when you as a parent are getting upset, you're at your wits end, and you just don't know how to help. And you don't know if you're doing the right thing. You just do not know if you're doing the right thing. And, you know, and quite often what we used to get with France is

you'd have experts coming in and you'd have one expert saying one thing and then another expert saying another thing. And you're like, you're supposed to be the experts. So what, whose guidance do I take here? What is the right answer? And, you know, the reality was there was no, she kind of defied all rules and all expertise. There was never a right thing to do.

And we had some very difficult time. and continue to do so, as do many, many people. So all advice, really, really welcome from all of you who listen to this and contribute to the conversations that we have. Becky, we're sending you lots and lots of love and solidarity and strength because you're going through such a hard time. Yeah, I really hope it gets better for you. And hopefully we can find you some good advice and some good help.

If you're enjoying Digit, please hit follow or subscribe wherever you watch or listen. That way you get brand new episodes as soon as they're out. Okay, let's move on. So last week, I was telling this story about how Coco, when we got on the plane, coming back from Thailand, suddenly had this moment of clarity, this light bulb moment. And she turned to me and she went, I've left Snoopy in the hotel. And Snoopy is the beloved cuddly toy who she cannot sleep without. Every child has one. And it was in a hotel in Thailand and I had no idea whether we were going to get it back.

Well, I can share now that we did get it back. Yes. Snoopy. And we posted a photograph of Snoopy in the bed and Jude was still out in Thailand. So he was able to go to the hotel, pick it up, and she now is reunited with Snoopy, and they had the first night together last night, and all things are good. But we had so many stories from all of you, loads and loads of diggers getting in touch, talking about the lengths you've had to go to to get your children reunited with their beloved,

cuddly toys. So let's share some of these with you. This message, first of all, is from Haley. And she says, my six-year-old daughter was distraught after losing Rambo, her unicorn teddy in grey. Great name. We pretended Rambo had gone. travelling for a while and sent her messages with pictures of her adventures until I managed to get a new one on eBay, which took weeks and weeks. She loved waiting for the messages to arrive, which distracted her. She's now 19 and only discovered this year that Rambo was not in fact Rambo, but Rambo 2.0. Seriously, is there not a thing that you should teach all new parents once your kid has a favourite cuddly toy? Get a backup, swap.

them so that they, you know, get worn down and mucky and, you know, and then you've always got a backup. It's the first rule of parenthood. We had monkey, we had mouse, there were lots of people that did get replaced. We had Giro. There were a lot of ugly dolls that, yeah, we're missing along the road. Well, anyway, thank you, Haley for that. We've got another one. Sarah has this tale for us. We had two nights of zero sleep when we lost our daughter's beloved Ponia, the Red Panda in Mayorka. Many trips around the time. town later, I can imagine the stress, we realised she was on the fares, hook her duck stand. We waited until 7 o'clock when it reopened, translated our problem into Spanish and were reunited

with Ponya. My husband and I cried and now we are all mentally scarred. I'm debating stitching in an eye tag. That's such a good idea. Get a little tag, stitch it in your cuddly's bum. And then you can track them. Sarah and Claudia reunited and that the story has a happy ending. Finally, we have this voice note, and this is from Carolyn.

We were on a family holiday in Turkey, and on the last morning, I heard crying like I'd never heard before from my 18-year-old daughter. She had lost her Draghi, who she had had since she was a very young child. We worked out that Draghi had probably ended up in the laundry. We were staying in a club med with hundreds and hundreds of bedrooms and so the chances were that Draghi had been lost. However, we called reception and highlighted that there was a missing bear. They were very helpful and said they'd look, but they weren't very hopeful.

We were leaving that day, so I found another family at the breakfast restaurant that morning and said that if Draghi turned up, would they be able to put them? post him back to me in England and they said, of course, and as we sat waiting for our transfer back to the airport, I went up to the manager and said, I don't suppose there is any sign of the missing dragon. He said, oh, let me look, opened a draw, and miraculously there was the little pink dragon who had caused so much angst. As we were leaving, I was walking past him with my daughter and said, this is the child that's lost, it's Teddy. His face was a picture. I've never seen anyone laugh so much. I think he expected a small five-year-old child, not an 18-year-old

looking for her forever, Teddy. Oh, Carolyn, that is so brilliant. India is 34 and she's got Panda Man and Panda Man is falling apart. He's got so many big holes in him. But he literally goes everywhere. If ever she does a night away anywhere, Pandaman has to go with him. her. It's like serious comfort blanket. If anybody repairs cuddly toys that listen to this, can you also let us know? Because I'm really, really worried that his arm's going to fall off, or his legs are going to fall off soon, and she will have a breakdown. So if anybody does repairs for cuddly toys, can you let us know as well? But they have such significance to us, don't they? Did you have one, Joe? Yeah, I've got a bit, oh no, pandas run deep in our family,

so I have panda man. But I've still got him. I remember being sick on him once when I was tiny, and so he still has that kind of smell to him so he's in my wardrobe but I've still got him boyfriends used to buy me cuddly toys and it just always gave me the ick it was you could this guy could be so cool really fun have a great car la la la la really hot

and then would turn up with a cuddly toy and I'd be like that's it that's it ooh no it's gone and I remember in my room when I shared a flat in London sort of back in the you know when I was about 19 all my housemates just being like, oh God, he's bought a cuddly toy. That's it. And there was this pile of toys.

I don't know. It was obviously, I don't know whether these men used to think that I needed some kind of father figure or something or other. But it was like, no, don't buy my cuddly toy. I can look after myself. I'm a strong independent woman. Thank you very much. And then it would always just give me the ick. But yeah.

But we do have Kermit. I've got quite a few kermits. Why you've got Kermit. I have no idea. But anyway, you have got Kermit. Yeah, I know because you hate Muppets. because I hate the Muppets. No, I should share this actually because

because I would take any opportunity to snuggle with my girls with India with Coco. And I always complain that India's got Panda Man, Coco has Snoopy. And I don't really, because I don't actually cuddle the vomit-smelling panda. I always used to say, oh, I haven't got a cuddly toy, but someone needs to buy me cuddly toy. And this Christmas, lo and behold,

they went to Build a Bear Workshop and they came back with a bear for me. So now when I go to bed at night, I actually still cuddled a cuddly toy. So I still have a bear that is really soft. My daughter's made it for me. So it has this deep significance and I cuddle it. That is cute. He's called Barry.

He's called Barry. He's called Barry. Make sure you put an air tag in its bottom. They should do that at Build a Bear. They should incorporate it because you could get a smelly heart or all sorts of things that you put into them. They make a killing in that place. I tell you what, I spent a good six years of my life in their gazillions. every, every party.

But I tell you what, build a bear, put tags, put tags, jelly cats, put tags in the arm, ugly dolls, put a air tag in them. It's brilliant. You'll save a lot of stress for people. Thanks for sharing your stories. They're so good. So we recently saw this incredible advert from Body Form, which we've been meaning to talk about, and now is as good a time as any. It's called Never Just a Period. It's kind of hard to describe.

Some of you might have seen it. You know exactly what we're talking about. But we will put a link to it in our show notes. And I urge every single person who listens to this or is watching us to watch this advert because it's brilliant. It's an incredible montage. It's set to classical music. And it does this wonderful job of capturing the reality of what it's like to live with periods, to have a period. And why it's so important to improve education about them.

So like I say, it's not new, but as it was International Women's Day yesterday and as it's something that affects us all the time constantly, we thought it'd be a really good opportunity to talk. about it a bit more on Digit. So we're joined now by someone who is an expert when it comes to improving period education in schools, Dr Natalie Brown, who leads a team of researchers at an organisation called Period Education UK. Natalie, it's lovely to have you here with us now. We would love to know about the research that you've done and some of the more shocking things that you found out in the course of this research. I think shocking is probably the right word for it. So I've done a lot of research with schools, understanding, Metro health and metro education delivered in schools.

I think one of the really shocking points that we first found out was actually out of 800 teachers, only half of them were saying that actually any education was being delivered in schools. Wow. That's terrible. Yeah, we anticipated that was going to be hopefully a lot higher. So when we kind of heard that, that's kind of when, so I work as part of peer education, we then kind of went on this journey to try and help change that.

And what are the messages that you're trying to reinforce that you're trying to get through to teachers to help young people at schools? I think one of the key things is, you know, in the process of doing the education, we spoke to lots of people themselves to understand what were some of their kind of questions, their concerns and a few things kept coming out. One was not knowing what was happening when they started their periods. So so many girls said to us, we thought, we were dying when we started our periods because we didn't know that what was happening.

And then another thing was not knowing what was normal and what was abnormal. So actually the amount of period pain or heaviness of bleeding or how to manage symptoms for maybe severe mood changes, things like that. So our kind of key work that we're doing with schools is to go beyond teaching the biology of the menstrual cycle and actually like, what is normal, what is not normal, when should you seek help and advice, how and who to speak to and to really start moving things beyond, yeah, just understanding what the metro cycle it is. With Coco, the first day of her period is always absolutely chronic and she, I've checked with her,

she doesn't mind me talking about this, but she is in agony. And it's that one day and it happens every month. And so she just can't make it, I mean, she can't get out of bed because she's in so much pain. And so she wouldn't get to school. And then I started getting messages in the school saying, is there something we can do about this to get Coco to school? And I was like, actually there really is not. I cannot, she cannot stand up straight. I cannot get her out of bed.

And I was quite surprised at the lack of understanding that they didn't quite appreciate the pain that she was in and just say, okay, fine, well, if you can send her in tomorrow, that will be okay. There was just this kind of, well, what can you do then to get her there? And that really took me back. Yeah, I think this is something that Shoxson surprises me because I guess, I mean, I remember, you know, when I was young, it's a long time ago.

My stepmom gave me a pretty basic chat. And I remember feeling very awkward about it. But, you know, she was quite matter of fact about it, which I thought was really good. And then a lot of the education that I got about periods was talking to my friends at school. You know, your friends start saying, well, I have this and I'd have that. And someone went on the pill and someone had this. And I was very late starting my period and everyone else had had it. And I remember desperately wanting to start my family.

period because then you'd be a woman and then of course it starts and you think oh why was I longing for this because now I'm in pain every month and I was trying to think back about when I decided to go on the pill because it helped a little bit and I was on the pill for so many years my daughter has just gone on to the pill because she really suffers with her periods but I am so surprised Natalie and sort of kind of heartbroken away that there isn't a class I mean I can imagine learning about menstruating and periods in a class, whether you're all girls or whether you're boys and girls in a class, will be slightly excruciating. But being able to have quite a frank conversation and teaching our kids that it's okay to talk about these things. It is such a

huge part of women's lives. It's really important that our boys understand as well. Surely that is, you know, in this day and age, that should be happening. For me, like 100% and I again, like in period education, that's kind of what we're trying to promote is that openness of conversation. Like, actually, dementia cycle is a completely normal biological function. Like, it's controlled by hormones. When we're hungry, I kind of use this analogy in schools. I'm like, when we're hungry, that's controlled by our hormones.

None of us are embarrassed saying we feel hungry now. And it's trying to shift that, like, societal perception that's been built up over time of it's something that's hidden, something secretive or embarrassing. actually it is a normal function that should be celebrated. It's a really good sign of health. You know, when we have a regular mental cycle, we should be really happy that it's regular. That's, you know, good for like other things,

our bone house, our heart house. And actually, how can we shift that narrative for boys and girls that it's not something to be embarrassed about? It's also not something we should hide or, but equally on the other side of that, not something we should be suffering with. And actually there's a lot of symptoms that so many, women and girls just put up with, suffer with, that actually aren't normal and really should

like be able to seek healthcare and support for. One of the things I loved about the advert was that it shows how periods can be so very different. And there's this, it's very, very graphic, which is amazing to see that on a screen sitting in your living room with your kids, boys and girls and your family. But like the clots that come out. Yeah. I remember when I was having periods and then all of a sudden the clots, yeah.

And there's this jelly just wibbly wobbling. in the advert and you're like, that's what it's like. And boys would have no idea that that is what some girls see when they pull their pants down. They have no idea at all. So to be that graphic on screen is absolutely fantastic, get that conversation going. Like you said, it is quite graphic and like hard hitting to the point. But I also like that they've not shied away and they've kind of shown the true realities and actually what some females might be suffering with or struggling with.

then that's the experiences that they're trying to go about and their day-to-day activities without having received any support or information. So although it might be seen as graphic, I think we really need to highlight that actually that is the experience and maybe we all need to know about that a bit more. I think it's really good that there's apps now so that you can follow flows.

I know dads who follow their daughters flow so that they can hopefully have an understanding of when, you know, because a lot of girls you do get quite grime, or you can get quite sad or tired or low before your period. And I think recognizing that for men and women at work, at school, wherever you are, is really helpful, isn't it? Because, you know, when you get people rolling their eyes going, you've got your period.

I remember someone saying that to me in a meeting. Have you got your period? And it was at work. And I slammed my fist down because I was obviously trying to own that power. And it was like, you wouldn't say that to Chris Evans. We do get that as girls, don't we? Oh, we got your period. Yes, I have.

And all you need is empathy. You just want empathy from people because your hormones are fluctuating. And I can see, because I've got two daughters, one's 30, nearly 34, 117, and then there's me, and we're all at different stages of hormonal imbalance. And I can see how it affects both of them.

They feel very vulnerable and fragile and then also closed in and stroppy. And it's because their hormones are fluctuating like crazy. and all you need is the occasional arm around the shoulder or sometimes not at all, not to be touched at all. Try and gauge what exactly they are needing. But it's all about empathy. And that needs to happen at schools and in the home as well, doesn't it?

Yeah, just that understanding. So many young girls and schools have also, they want boys just to understand. Unfortunately, they feel like boys do like tease or bully based on like changes in emotion or what they're going through. and they, you know, they don't necessarily want boys to know all the ins and outs of absolutely everything that they need to know. But just to understand that actually is not in their control, it is hormones that are causing some of these symptoms. And to empathise that it's actually quite difficult to maybe go through that day to day and the frustration of it making you feel upset or moody or agitated and that not being within someone's control. So I think that word there of empathy is so important. Is there a right age?

What's the right age for kids at school to be learning about this? Because I mean, I remember girls starting their period really young, sort of 12-ish or sort of 13. I didn't start to love 15. Is there a sort of key age when these conversations could be had, Natalie, as well? So we've been trying to work this out. So we've just done a pilot of, so we've delivered, we've kind of developed Metro Education to be delivered in schools. We developed and piloted trials that in secondary school

and some of the biggest feedback we had from pupils and teachers was it needs to be earlier. So a lot of girls are starting their periods like age 10, 11 now in primary school. So actually, so many girls were like, this was great, but I've already had my period for four years. So I've kind of started working out. So actually we're in the process at the moment

of working with primary schools to develop metro education to be delivered earlier and trying to make that a bit more fun, creative, activities, interactions so that it's not just kind of an embarrassing subject. How do we make it engage in and fun? Take away the stigma and the shame because that's the thing. I remember it was, you know, I remember distinctly being at school once

and the girl next desk to me suddenly looked behind her skirt and there was a pool of blood there. And I remember being so shocked and just thinking, oh my God, what are we doing this situation? And where do we go from here? And she just literally had to scoop her skirt up and just shimmied out of the room. And it was so, I remember it's so clearly the poor, poor girl. But now I feel like everyone is so much more, well, certainly in my daughter's case, my younger daughter's case, are much more aware.

She will talk to all the boys at her school about having a period. She will tell them straight away if she's in a bad mood because of that. And there doesn't seem to be quite so much stigma. But there are undoubtedly in other places that shame still kind of exists. I'm also quite interested about a physical education. And when it comes to doing sport and if you're an active person, you know, I mean, we've had Olympic athletes talking about being on their period to go and do ice skating. But if you have a period and you can't go and swim or you can't go and do netball or whatever, how do you educate young girls in that case? So that was from the research we've done, we found that PE was the most impacted or affected lesson in school.

So many girls just wouldn't take part, wouldn't do PE whilst they were on their period. But when we started asking questions of why, it's because they never been given any information on how to manage their period during PE. And I know that sounds really simple, but just knowing like what period products to use. Exactly. We had one young group of primary school

and one girl was like, I absolutely love running, but I tried running in a pad and the pad fell off and then it was rubbing on my legs. So I just don't do PE anymore because it's easier. Whereas then we started talking about, well, have you tried period pants? or, you know, if you like swimming, if you tried swimwear, that now, you know, there's so many more options now. So other things, like if you're feeling really low in energy or you've got cramps, actually, what other way can you take part in P?

So can you take more of a coaching role? Or can we offer yoga at the start of the lesson to help just get movement and ease symptoms? And that seems to be, from our experiences, make it a huge difference from the girls that we've spoken to. It's so important that we are educating our kids well because you don't want them to be embarrassed and shamed or suffering in silence, you know? It's heartbreaking. But in this day and age, that would be the case. It's only paperwork. Are there any leaflets?

Does there any websites that we can send people to? We've created loads of different resources on our period education website that's got all different lessons, but also on there we've created like short. three minute animated videos of like here's some symptoms and ways that you might be able to manage it or here's a 10 minute yoga that might help you with your and we've done that for cramps but also for mood like actually you feel really low a mood let's do something that might make you feel more confident or help you relax or so um we've developed those resources and also really nicely the NHS has actually got some really nice basics of what is normal to really kind of guide some of that underpinning kind of basic information on

when to seek and who to go and see help from. Because it is a minefield and it is very hard like Joe says. Yeah, really hard to actually have those conversations because they don't want to hear from their mums quite often if we can just nudge them in the right sites and the best places to go to because I found it really, really difficult in the early stages. It's okay now. But having that conversation about why don't you try using a tampon or how about these pads And it's just the language that they just cannot bear to hear coming out of their mum's mouth,

to be honest with you. And so if we can direct them in other places, then fantastic. Brilliant. Yeah. And keeps spreading the word. And fingers crossed. Yeah, Natalie, well done on this amazing research that everybody's doing. Thank you.

Keep spreading the word. And let's really hope that, you know, there's more education in schools for our kids and at the right age so that they're not frightened when this starts happening to them. And we've all got a better understanding. Yeah. be amazing to just try and shift this, wouldn't it? It really would. Five years' time. It's not even a topic that we have to have this conversation about or those adverts for that actually it's just a normal process that everyone feels a lot more supported

with. So thank you so much for inviting me to come and talk to you about this. And yeah, raising the awareness for other people. Oh, keep up your amazing work, Natalie. You're fantastic. Dr. Natalie Brown. Thanks for joining us. on Digit. That's the end of this episode. For now, I think we've covered a lot. As always, Joe, we never know where we're going to go with it. As always. I will see you Wednesday. Yes. Have a good couple of days. We'll catch up then again. All right. Enjoy. Bye. Thanks, Dallin. Digit is a Persephonica production.