Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - 84: Can You Really Detox From Cortisol?

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Prepare yourself for barefoot red carpet glamour, celebrity encounters (including a certain Rosamund Pike), and a heartfelt chat about stress, hormones, and finding calm.Watch on YouTube - https://youtu.be/Zzh7FKBwgR8GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSDIG IT x FOTHERGILL’S – SOW & TELL SEEDSWe’ve teamed up with Fothergill’s to bring you our very own Sow & Tell seed packs - featuring cosmos and cherry tomatoes.Become an annual member of The Potting Shed to receive your seeds plus a Dig It tote bag:https://digit.supportingcast.fm/Check out amazing seasonal highlights at https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/  🌱 Starling Bank — Take control of your money with smart, simple banking. Download the Starling app and start managing your finances with ease. https://www.starlingbank.com/good-with-money/ 🧠 Alzheimer's Society — Every three minutes, someone in the UK develops dementia. Find out more at www.alzheimers.org.uk CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Danny Pape and Jack Whiteside 

Coming up on Digit. I'll be honest with you, I felt last week like I was looking down the barrel of a gun. I really did. I just felt this rising panic in my chest all the time. And breathing, as you mentioned, I've never had that before, apart from when I did a triathlon and you get in the water and you get this breathing panic. Every time I've even asked to play myself, I start to just ham it up. I'm like, why can't I even be myself?

I got asked to be in a French and Saunders sketch. And I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't even play myself. If I could do anything in my life, it would be to be on stage and to be in a musical. Hang on a minute. In Le Miz or to be on some quick calls. Hello.

Hi, is Chicago coming back? Do you need a Mama Morton, is it? Yeah, Joe Wiley's well up for it. All of that right after this. Digit is sponsored by Starling, the bank that helps you organise your money, build great habits and stay in control of your spending. We talk a lot on this show about how a great garden starts with a bit of a business. plan and the right environment. Well, money is the save. It's not just about what you have. It's about being intentional with it. How we choose to spend, save and plan. That's what really shapes the way we

live. That is so true. Being good with money isn't about being perfect. It's about building a relationship with your finances that actually works for you and your life. And that's what Starling is all about. They believe that with the right tools, anyone can grow those healthy habits. One habit I found so helpful is separating your spending. It's that peace of mind of knowing exactly what's for the bills, what's for the fun stuff and what's actually left over. And that's a tool that Starling offers in their app. They call it Spaces. It's basically a pot of money sitting within your Starling current accounts kept separate from your main balance. So you're never dipping into the wrong pot by accident. I desperately need one for the garden. Anyone who knows me knows my plant budget can get, well,

a little out of hand. Exactly. And you can even create free virtual debit cards linked to each space. So you can only ever spend what you've planned to making life that little bit easier. Search Starling to find out more. Good with money starts here. Hello, my friend Joe Wiley, of whom I am very proud indeed. How are you feeling this morning, girl? I'm feeling a bit of a wreck of a human being because we're filming this on the Monday morning and I did the London landmarks half marathon yesterday morning,

which I've been talking about forever in a day and hadn't actually managed to fit in very much training for. And then it was the Olivier Awards last night. And you know when you get jobs come along and you're like, oh, I can't turn this down because I love theatre and I love musicals so much. And when Radio 2 asked me to do the coverage for the Olivier's, I was like, yeah, of course I'm going to do it, but I have got to do a half marathon in the morning. So I did both of those things yesterday. And today, honestly, my IT band is freaking is killing me when I try and stand up. It takes me quite a long time and really hurts. And you reckon that's from the running or standing in high heels for the rest of the evening in a beautiful orange dress, which we all saw on page

three of the Daily Mail this morning. How embarrassing. Bigger than Paddington. Oh, God, bless you. No, I was in bare feet most of the time. When I was wearing that dress, everyone was like, oh, you've got trainers on. I was like, no, I have just bare feet. It was an amazing day.

Doing that half marathon, I don't know whether you saw, but Coco, like, the whole family turned up. They got up stupidly early and they came and they cheered us on, which was amazing. I like the way you walk it. No diggerty for the dig it crew. Oh, the dig crew. Yeah. Go Coco.

What amazing kids you were raising. Oh, they're gorgeous. And to make that sign. Yeah. The reason I wanted to do the half marathon was two reasons. One was to see if I could still do it. So I did it 10 years ago and I did it with Amy, who's my best friend. And we did it in under two hours.

And we just haven't ever got around to doing it again. And so we thought, let's see if we can still do it 10 years down the line. we did it and we did it in two and a half hours, which I am so unbelievably proud of. I can't believe that we actually finished it. And Amy was amazing. She was like my trainer. The whole way she was pacing me, telling me to keep going and like nurturing me along. So I did it for that.

And also I wanted to do it because Cass has never done anything like that before. And he's a runner. And I just knew that doing a race, being part of something like the landmarks half, would excite him. And he loved it. He absolutely loved it. And he did it in, you know, under two hours. Of course he did. And now he's got the bug.

Now he wants to do another half marathon. And I just, it's really important to me to pass that on to my kids to let them know what fun things there are out there for them to do. So tick, tick yesterday. It kind of, it worked all round. It was a really good day, really good day. Honestly, you look, it was really funny because you chown a picture of you and Amy doing face masks. The night before. The night before.

And I was just thinking, you know, you need every time you've got to do a big flash red carpet event, Joe, you need to run a half marathon beforehand because the photos of you doing that run, you look so full of life. Your skin is shining. Your eyes are so bright. You're clearly loving it despite the pain despite the IT band. And also, I know you'd been really dreading it. And look how amazing you look. I know. It looked like a joyous thing to be part of for so many reasons. It was such a joy to do. But that, you know, that just absolutely illustrates the power of a setting self-challenge, B, doing exercise, because you're right, you know, putting on makeup, it just dulls your skin quite often.

And when you're doing something that gets your adrenaline going, you're exercising, everything just becomes more vital. And you do have that glow. And you have this real joy inside and everything kicks in. And the endorphins, man. Bring those endorphins up. Yeah. But I was, you know, I was absolutely sick with dread for weeks beforehand.

And it just got intensified. It got worse and worse and worse. And when it got to Friday and Saturday, I just could barely function because all I was thinking was, you know, I was, I went to the cinema and I almost had a panic attack in the cinema because all I could think of was, what if I have a heart attack? What if my back suddenly crumbles and I break my spine? I was just imagining all these scenarios. God, like really quite horrific scenarios, like proper worst case. Yeah, because, you know, people do get injured doing these runs and I am 60 and I hadn't trained. The furthest I'd done was a 5K. And I'd had to walk a lot of that 5K beforehand. So both the India and Cassu'd run with me were like, I cannot believe you managed to run 13 miles. And we ran the majority of it. You ran the whole thing. So it's really good evidence that you can push yourself and you can make yourself do things and things are possible. And that's what I want people to take away from this. There were quite a few diggers came up to me on the race. And they were, it wasn't a race. It was a run. And they were like, yeah, I did capture 5K. I really enjoy dig it. And you've inspired us to get out and run and take on challenges. So, you know, that's that's what life's about. Isn't it? It's actually. sharing and inspiring and having fun experiences with each other, people that you love and getting other people to do stuff. Well, it looked so joyous. It was the Brighton marathon this weekend,

which again, it's like 14,000 people run it this year. And a big shout out to my mate Hitton and to Emma B, who we know, fabulous DJ. Emma is training for the London Marathon. Hitton does lots of work with children with cancer charity that lots of people are running for. And they did the 10K as part of their warm up to do the London Marathon. And it's just the people running it. I just must say, well done. I think it's Amy Harris and Sam Cook were the two winners of the Brighton Marathon.

I think Sam, he did it in, he won last year as well. I think he did it in like two and a half hours. And Amy did her race in like 249 or something rather. Incredible. But all ages, all shapes and sizes, all incredible folks. together the atmosphere in Brighton was just next level. The signs, it's the signs that make me laugh so much. It's so wonderful, like, you know, Coco's side for you. And I must shout out Stitch, who was running. I don't know who was inside the Stitch outfit, but Bravo to you. There was a giant

teddy bear. I ran, I just want to mention a few people. You've reminded me now. There was a really wonderful lady that I met who was running as over is. So she was inside this like rubber thing because she lost her mum two years ago. She died and she's going into hospital to have her own ovaries removed. She was running with her brother. And so that was her reason for doing it. And I was kind of parallel with her. We kept overtaking.

I think she beat me at the end. But I wanted to mention her. And then I've got a couple of people who are doing the London Marathon. Emily, who I know is running the London Marathon for her daughter, Daisy, who she lost. And she's a powerhouse and she's so fantastic. And I love her. And she's doing it for Daisy. And then also Claire.

who is another runner, fellow runner, and she lost her son Hugo, who was one of her five children, I think, and she loved him fiercely. And she's doing all her running in memory of Hugo as well. So I wanted to mention them. And also, can I mention Amy Fuller, who we chatted to when it was the Winter Olympics. Oh, we did. She ran the London, the landmark half. And she ran with her mum. Her mom is unbelievably fit. Oh, my God. Isn't her mom gorgeous? Oh, she's amazing. She's so young. And you see where Amy gets all her energy. the pair of them sprinted around and they look so glamorous as well. That was the one thing I took away from it. I was like, God, I must try and be more glamorous or presentable when I do a run in future

because they looked phenomenal. They really did. If you're loving Dig It So Far, hit follow or subscribe and that way you'll get new episodes, brand new episodes as soon as they're out. So after I did the run yesterday, I went and did the Olivier Awards. Oh, hang on a minute. Just did like a half marathon and it just popped off to the Olivia Awards. Sometimes stuff happens.

It all collides, yeah. Honestly, the photos were coming up on socials. I was like, hang on a minute. It's been 20 minutes since you finished that one. How long did you have to go shower and get into your stunning orange dress that you were wearing on the red carpet show? And be red carpet ready. Yeah, well, this is, thanks to the power of Liz Beckett, who is my makeup artist, who did the transformation. and Rachel Fankoni, who is an amazing stylist who got me that dress.

Rachel came to my show on Thursday when I was doing the radio show with a bag of clothes and for something for me to wear at the Olivier's. And she got all these dresses out and she was trying to get me in them. And she was squeezing them. And I was like, Rachel, I cannot breathe. I'm going to be in so much pain after doing the half. I don't want to wear anything that's vaguely tight. So she got this dress out.

Someone called it a wind sock. I'm happy to wear a wind sock to the Olivier's. It was so comfortable. As soon as I put it on, I was like, yeah, this is a. one. This is a dress I've got to wear. And it was really amazing. All the Paddington cast, every time I interviewed someone from the Paddington crew, they were like, Marmalade. You've come as a jar of marmalade. You're orange. Fantastic. And of course, Radio 2 branding. If people can't see Joe's dress was sort of like sleeveless, ties around your neck, this amazing, vibrant

orange colour right down to the ground. You're often barefoot, aren't you? Your barefoot when you do your radio show, your barefoot, a glast and breeze. You're a glast and breeze. You're a lot. You're And I mean, that's a brave thing to do. You're bare, on a green carpet. Yes. Excellent. But I can see what you mean. It's stunning.

Absolutely stunning dress. I spoke to Helen Mirren when I was there. And she saw my feet with that I've got bare feet on it. She was like, good girl. I like a girl who's barefoot. That's nice and grounded. I was like, oh, I'll take that from Helen Mirren. She presented a war, didn't she, with Ian McKellen?

Yes. And they were an absolute hoot. They were hilarious together. Yeah. And Rosam and Pike was there. So I now. have, and I'm sure you have the hugest girl crush on Rosamond Pike. She is the epitome of elegance. She is unbelievably articulate, incredibly hardworking, amazing talented actress and also

unbelievably down to earth. She's in inter alia, which is just winning all the awards quite rightly so. And she was just, she was just wonderful, but she saw Helen Mirren and Ian McKellen and she was obviously, you know, just completely enamoured with them. And there was lots of photographs and hugs and kisses. It was just such a lovely sight. It was really. really nice, but she's quite the woman, quite the woman. I know, she can be, because I remember the first time meeting her sort of being so struck by how strikingly beautiful she is. I mean, she is perfection.

Sometimes with actresses, you have that and you realise there's a reason that they have been so successful, not, you know, they're really talented, but also certain people on the big screen look so good that if you think of Grace Kelly, you know, and Audrey Hepburn, something about the instructor of their third. faces is great, you know, on the big screen. And she is so striking, but she is so super smart as well. But really good fun. I love how much fun she is. And she talks about the irony when she got the award, the part in the play about women, you know, trying to work and raise a family and that sort of side to it. And then how the irony is that her husband has, you know,

looked after their kids so that she can do the job. And, oh, Oh, what a woman and what a win. Yeah, I asked Rosamond about how she was feeling about going to Broadway, because she's making her Broadway debut when she has got the family at home. And she went, she just said, yeah, do the first thing I did? I booked the flights. I booked all the flights for the half term, for the school holidays. I just got it all organized so that I knew I would be able to fit in the family

and I would see my children. And that is the way that I can make it work. And that is what we do as women. We juggle. We make it work. However we can, we're obviously, I think, quite often just putting our own needs to the bottom because our biggest need is actually having the kids happy and having the family functioning and seeing as much of them as we possibly can. And that is exactly what she was doing.

I mean, can you imagine being on Broadway but still having a family in the UK and being torn? Well, this is the thing. I think there are so many jobs, aren't they? Yeah. If you think about people in the forces, here away from home, people working on all rigs, you know, people who have to travel a lot for work, they really are away from their families, you know, so much. And it's, It can be at such a cost. But that's the thing. Yeah, if you've got to work and you still can raise your family and having a great partner is amazing. And then there's loads of people who work hard and have crazy hours and stuff.

And they do it on their own raising kids as well. So, yeah, you juggle it, don't you? But also, why would you not want to go and play Broadway? I know. How exciting. And it sounds like an amazing play. I've not seen it actually. Did you get to meet Paddington?

I got to meet Paddington, yes. Artie and James, who they got the best actor. So they were over the moon with that. So yeah, got to meet them. They were really, really excited to be there. The thing that I got from Paddington is it won so many awards on the night. And it just seems to be a huge commitment. They've been working on it for over five years. And it's just taken everybody by storm. Because in your head, you're like, why is this a smash here? Why do so many people want to go and see it? But it seems to be so full of joy and has such a great message. that I think it's just going to run and run and run. It was a huge, there was so much love for it at the Olivier's.

I always feel when they keep the cameras on everybody, when they lose. Oh, I hate it. Can't you just cut to the winner? Yeah. I think it's so mean. It's like just cut to the winner and let the people who must be a little bit gutted to not win. Just let them just be on their own for a minute because they were really holding the cameras on, the people who don't win, and it's like, great.

I know sometimes people do really funny, funny faces and stuff. And I can't remember his name, but it was a brilliant actor who was nominated twice. And he was in Stereophonic, which I saw, which I really loved about the, it was the play about the band making an album in the 70s and all the chaos in the band, so I guess loosely based on, you know, like Fleetwood Mac or all those great bands from the 70s. and he was nominated twice and they put his picture up twice and his reaction was great. I wish I could remember his name. Zachary.

I feel like his name is Zachary. Oh gosh, I can't remember. I'll remember it in half an hour. There was a lot of talk about access to theatre like youth theatre and taking kids to give them opportunities to act. And there are so many different youth groups and people are saying that's the springboard. And it's just such a fun way to grow up and discover whether that is your thing. And it's very important to support that. And so if people, any diggers are watching and your kids are just saying how bored they are,

if they show an inkling for any kind of dramatics, then just maybe channel that and see if there's a local youth group near you and maybe get them to do some theatre because it could change their lives. It could be the thing that they end up doing on stage. They could be a director. They could be a stage and they could be working in building the sets. You know, there are so many different jobs. And it's such an exciting thing.

If I could do anything in my life, it would be to be on stage and to be in a musical. I know I've talked about being a florist before, but the one thing, my deep, deep desire is to be in Le Maiz or to be on. on some quick call. Hello. Hi, is Chicago coming back? Do you need a Mama Morton, is it? Yeah? Okay. Yeah, Joe Wiley's well up for it. If only I could sing, dance or act. Those three things are kind of missing from my life. But the yearning I get when I see these things on stage, I'm just desperate, desperate to be the person who's singing. But I know that will never be. It's the greatest tragedy of my life. Do you know what? That's like me. I remember going to shows my, you know, my parents used to take me shows really young. I remember seeing the king and I. with Yul Brynirner for, I think, my ninth birthday, Fripping amazing. And seeing Michael Crawford in Barnum and just amazing people in theatre across the years and always wanting to be that all singing or dancing.

And then that moment when you realise, you're like, yes, I can't do that because, because it is such a talent. And there are, you know, you have to have that, that special magic. And there's also so many people who want to do it, who don't make it, you know. God, yeah. It's a tough career. It's a real tough career. But it's a good moment when you realize, yes, I don't think I'll do that because that's not really where my skill set is, because I can't think and I can't act. It's the greatest disappointment. When you have that moment, when the penny drops, you're like, oh, it's such a moment, isn't it? Oh, God, I'm never going to have that. I'm never

going to be that person. I are so annoying. It's funny because you kind of, yeah, it's, it's that thing People have asked me to sort of do cameos in things. And I can't even play myself. Because every time I've even asked to play myself, I start to just ham it up. I'm like, why can't I even be myself? So I've actually turned things down. I got asked to be in a French and Saunders sketch. And I was like, I can't do it.

I can't do it. I can't even play myself. And they're my heroes. Yeah. It's like, no, I just can't do it. It's so scary. And I think when I've done a couple of things, yeah, in the past, I think people have looked going, oh my God, she's so bad. She can't even play herself. Hey, we've got some really exciting news, haven't we, Joe? Digit has officially teamed up with Fathergill's for our very own, drum roll, sow and tell seeds.

It is, it's really exciting. It means that we can all, well, we can grow along together, we can compare seeds and the little seedlings that come along with Pit Cosmos and Tomatoes, variety. that are reliable, really rewarding and work, whether you've got a garden, a balcony or just a window sill. Because we love seeing what you're growing. You send us lovely pictures and at Fothergills, they believe in the power of gardening to enhance lives and nurture a connection with nature, which is exactly, while this felt like such an actual fit for us guys at Dig It. And if you want to be one of the first people to get your hands on Fothergill's sew and tell seeds like these, and also we'll throw in a Digit tote bag as well. All you need to do is become an annual member of the potting shed. It's a very, very stylish accessory. If you're already an annual member,

we'll be getting in touch to sort delivery. If you've subscribed annually via Apple, all you have to do is drop us an email. Questions at digipod.com.com. Start your message with Apple subscriber, and we'll take it from there. And we are so excited about this. It genuinely feels like a lovely little digit community thing. I'm going to try and pot mine this week. Probably going to keep them indoors for a bit because it's still a bit chilly. I know. God, the weather is making it so hard to get out there and do stuff. Cosmos, we always say, just fill those borders up really beautifully and it's so nice to actually grow tomatoes that you can eat. For full terms and conditions, check the show notes and our website. It's all there for you. So Zoe, we've just been talking about, you know,

the crazy weekend that I had. And I know you are busy and you have been super busy in the past. And it's ebbs and flows, doesn't it? How busy we are and what we have going on in our lives. But I, in the buildup to doing, knowing that I've got a really, really hectic Sunday, the week beforehand, I was, I've really felt quite unhinged and quite out of control. I mentioned I went to the cinema and I genuinely, I've said this before, I sit in a cinema and I have this rising panic that the world is ending around me outside and I'm missing it. But I was sitting there thinking, oh my God, oh my God, I'm going to, I am literally going to die on this run and I could feel for the whole of the film that my adrenaline was just going crazy.

And in the buildup to it, that whole week, I kept having all these physical symptoms that I couldn't, I was obsessing that I was ill. I was obsessing that I got weird lumps in my legs. I was obsessing. I've had a couple of nosebleeds. I was like, oh my God, what on earth is that for? Just loads of health issues. And I think when you have a lot of stress going on, your cortisol just goes crazy and you start

feeling quite unhinged. And so you imagine all sorts of things. I don't know whether you've ever had that kind of experience. Like, all of a sudden, I've got everything out of perspective. And now on the other side, I'm feeling so much more chill about it. Like, I'm all right. I'm fine. I don't need to go to the doctors.

It's overwhelming, isn't it? It's like sometimes we take on so many things. And that can be every day for some people. Some people that can just be like a heavy workload worrying about kids, worrying about parents. And it add into that the mix of the menopause, which can bring anxiety. I mean, some people live with panic and anxiety every day. For me, I'd never really been that anxious until menopause.

And I found that sort of, you know, so I'd be really busy, really worried about the kids, really worried about my mum, for example, and then worrying about work and it all puzzles. And as it all builds up and then you're just sort of raging and this cortisol is running through your body and it's just too much to cope with and boom. And that's when, I mean, I'd never had panic attacks before my 40s and where I could not breathe. And it was like, what's happening to me? Oh my goodness me. And I'd never realized that. And I felt terrible for all my friends who have suffered with panic attacks for a long time. And it's been quite good because even now doing her GCSE, she keeps getting overwhelmed with the amount of revision she's doing. And it's like, darling,

it's okay, right? You've got to remember just keep breathing. But this is this whole thing of like, our bodies become raging with cortisol. I've definitely found during the, during the breakfast show when I was doing those hours. You know, and I'm not working in a hospital as a nurse or a doctor, you know, on crazy hours. I know. I was in a job where I got paid. paid really well to do what is something that is quite fun. But it was quite relentless. And so I wouldn't really sleep. And then I'd get out really early and then a la la la. And you're just stacking everything on top. And that's when I really started to understand it. Oh, wow. Right. Yeah. This is a body that's raging with cortisol. And I'm sort of, my body feels like it's not working properly. I'm all puffy.

I can't sleep. All the food I eat isn't probably the right. you're eating the wrong foods and stuff like that. And I know there's a lot of, there's a real fad at the moment, isn't there, of the TikTok cortisol diet. Yeah. And the detox. Detox. I don't know how you, I don't know, genuinely don't know how you detox, how you can stop yourself. Because if you have a job to do, if you're in a stressful situation, if you work, you know, for example, the people work in my sister's care home, what they have to deal with on a daily basis, how they manage that with their own family situations and their own lives and you can see how it affects them. But you have a job to do and say you have to do it. You have to do all your family situations. So I don't actually

understand how you can do a cortisol detox unless you just, unless it's a matter of just saying no to stuff, I guess we sometimes say yes and and, you know, accept things and jobs that we don't want to be doing. And so it just all piles up and you just keep yourself, you get manically busy. And that's when the cortisol starts racing through your body and you start having to having symptoms. But I think a lot of the time it's actually, it's really impossible to have a cortisol detox. You just, it's life. You just have to get on with it. And I think sometimes this is probably why, you know, we get a lot of our diggers talking about career change. I told you about, you know, when I met a lady who's now a gardener and she used to be, I think she was a political strategist.

And it was like, whoa, can you imagine working for the government, high, high pressure, high power, constant, you know, you probably never sleep. And there are certain jobs like that that bring a huge amount of pressure with them. And I think as we get older, perhaps we look at life and go, I can't carry on like this. And for some people, you know, that can result in having a breakdown or just realizing that you just actually, my body can't cope anymore with all of this pressure and all this stress. So I guess it's the level that you might be affected by it. But I, you know, I definitely notice the change in my body when I I stopped working the crazy hours and it's not, you know, comparatively, it was not as stressful

as a lot of people have to cope with. No, and we hear what you're saying. We completely understand. But less, not very much sleep and da-da-da-da-da-da. And I found now I get, you know, I do try to prioritize sleep because I can. I'm in a position where I can go to bed early and I've learned about, you know, taking my magnesium at night and having a quiet bedroom. And now, I mean, I sleep so much. And there's people in my household who don't sleep very much at all and get up and have to go and work really, really hard and work long hours and have work to do that no one else is going to do so they have to do it. And I've learned to not say to them, oh, maybe you should sleep more. Maybe you shouldn't get up at that time. It's like, well, some people have to do that to get through their job and stuff.

But I found for me, while I can, especially at the moment, I'm like, oh, wow, having a lot of sleep is great. It's actually really good for you, stopping to smell the roses effectively or have time for yourself, you know, to do a little gym class. All those things. The things we talk about quite a lot regulating yourself. And it's, you know, something we've touched on, going for a little walk or just sitting down for 10 minutes to have a cup of tea, calming yourself down. Or taking that walk around the block, walk around the block, just walk out, get your face in the sunlight. Breathe in and out, calm yourself a little bit. And these are sort of things that I'm trying to tell Nell about at the moment with exams.

Because all the kids do in exams, yeah, it's a lot of stress. Which level you're doing at the moment is a lot of stress. And I think learning to little tricks for being able to calm yourself a little bit. And can you say no to things, Joe? It's hard, isn't it? You can't sometimes. Yeah, I'll be honest with you. I felt last week like I was looking down the barrel of a gun.

I really did. I just felt this rising panic in my chest all the time. And breathing, as you mentioned, I've never had that before. apart from when I did a triathlon and you get in the water and you get this breathing panic. And I started to get it when I was trying to run last week. And I was like, oh my God, what is happening to me? I've never had this in my life before. But I'm convinced I'm not going to be able to get my next breath.

But it's everything mounting up. It was having to do the half marathon, which I'd said yes to when I desperately wanted to do. And I'm really happy I did. But then also having, you know, a war show to do for Radio 2. But my mum has got an operation in a few days time. I've got two children and my dad with birthdays and a very close, you know, close proximity. We've got a party to celebrate all of them coming up. We're getting the new puppy. I've got loads of work commitments of radio too. And none of those I can say no to. They've all

got to happen in the space of the next 10 days. Yeah, the radio show four days a week. Yeah. Podcast. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it takes time. But I can't stop any of those. They've got to happen. I've got to do them. So I've got to manage how I cope with that. And I had one day last week when I didn't have things to do. And I was in the garden. And I had, I did my vegetable patch. I just potted around. I planted up some things and oh my god did i feel better at the end of it it was just i could literally feel the calm descend and the quarters all i guess reduce and just go away and it was just having that opportunity as you just said to have a little moment for myself in which i could just be calm and that's what you need and you do it in whatever way you can whether it's a swim or a run or a cup of tea with

some mates you know that that sometimes is the answer just kind of offloading on with friends too but it's really hard. It's really hard. I saw a lady in a shop the other day and it had been really hectic and busy and I said, oh my gosh, you know, it's been full on for you. And she said, yeah, I've got a day off tomorrow. And I said, you know, what, we did go out and have a drink? She went, I'm going to just stay in bed. And I thought, yeah, this is the thing. It's knowing, isn't it, sometimes where you go, I'm just going to rest, I'm going to watch some telly, I'm going to, you know, whatever it is,

when you get those little moments to yourself. Cherish them. To just sort of take, cherish them. and just let yourself and don't we talk about it all time don't we don't feel guilty about it yeah um our diggers do get in touch diggers yeah if you are you know if you've tried a cortisol detox um if that's something that you've seen recently thought yeah maybe i can try that are there ways that you calm yourself down when things have you got better at saying no to things like i don't want to put myself in that position can you even say no to things because maybe you don't have a choice um and have you had to change

your lifestyle dramatically after, you know, a burnout. Anxiety and panic. Becoming too much. You do get in touch. We love hearing from you and share your experiences and perhaps things that you've learned to do now that might help other diggers. You can get in touch, of course, with us, how to do that. You can find in the show notes. Did you see, I don't know whether you have, but it's available on IPlayer, David Attenborough, Secret Garden.

No, I haven't seen it yet. Everyone's saying it's amazing. Oh, my God. Sunday night. garden porn. It's fantastic. You stick it on everyone around you will be transfixed. It's the story of what goes on in people's gardens that you're oblivious to. So you might go, oh, look, I've got Bluetooth's on the bird feeder or, oh yeah, there's a bowl in my garden somewhere. But they set up cameras. And the one that I saw, it was a house in Oxfordshire, which is surrounded by water. And they filmed the activity

over a year. So there's a couple who've lived there for, think, 36 years. And they were aware that they had an otter in the garden and the guy there said, oh, I've seen it twice in all that time. They filmed it and the otter has just been living there, living its best life for years and years and years. There was a kingfisher family. So you saw these baby kingfishers being born. You saw where the mother kind of buried and made the hole where they lived and then you saw them launching themselves and begin to fly the ducks and the ducklings. And it's just a wonderful insight to everything that goes on in the gardens that we are oblivious to. We just see it at a surface level, but they are all living their best lives just like we are. It's like

they live in the homes and the gardens just like we do. And there is so much that goes unnoticed. And speaking of that, we've got a video from garden designer Melanie Hick. And she sent us some tips on how we can make our gardens more friendly for bats. Hi, Joe and Zoe. I'm Melanie Hick. I'm the designer of the Bat Conservation Trust's Nocturnal Garden sponsored by Project Giving Back at the Chelsea Flower Show this year. I'm going to show you on the garden how easy it is to grow plants that increase bat numbers in the UK. Planting things like cow slips and fennel can be a really easy way to increase the numbers of the insects that bats eat. We're coming into summer and that means that's when bats are flying

and they're nibbling insects in dusk. I came across this idea of dusking where we slow down and mindfully notice the transition from daylight into evening light. And I think this could be the new grounding. We have kind of been doing breath work and we've, you know, we've taken part in yoga in gardens and things like this, right? What about dusking? We go out in our new bat-friendly garden, nice glass of something and just relax and take a breath as the day slips away and the night drift in and we might even spot some bats. Come and see the Bat Conservation Trust's Nocturnal Garden on the triangle at the Chelsea Flower Show this year and follow me at Melanie Hick Gardens on Instagram to find out more and download

the plant list. Dusking. Oh, Melanie, I'm in for dusking. I'm already a dusker. Same. I have to say, I've got a west-facing garden. So the sun goes down across the houses that are at the back of my garden. And so I really feel that change in the light.

And I've got this little bench that was the best thing I bought in my garden, this little bench. And it's just in the most beautiful spot. I can sit there and have a coffee in the morning as the sun starts coming over the garden. And then you can sit on it at night and you watch the sun going back down across the houses. And then I do see bats. I see them come out. And you get the lovely change in the bird song where they suddenly all seem to go mad. with a sort of chatter of the late evening.

And you see the last few robins and the little blue tits and the occasional goldfinch popping around. Then you hear the seagulls chatting away on the roof. And then the bats start to come and you see that light change. Melanie, you are so right. Let's all become duskers. It is a real magic time in the garden. And I'm really excited actually because I'm thinking, yeah, I was looking at fennel the other day. It can get a huge, can't it, fennel?

It's beautiful. It's really structural. Yeah. So structural, but smells fantastic. So excellent to know, bat friendly things to plant in your garden that will encourage the insects that the bats like to eat. Also, it can be a beautiful colour. You can get like bronze fennel. So the different shades, it's a really, really gorgeous plant to have in the garden.

I've got it at the end of my border. And so it kind of builds down and then I've got big plants at the end. And fennel, it goes wild. It's really easy to grow as well. It's a lovely thing. And can you use it in cooking? Is it that fennel? That is the same fennel. Whenever we do this, I completely forget what every single plant is called.

I know. Whenever we chat and I go to describe what I've got in my garden, I'm like, oh, God, I've completely forgotten in this instant what that plant is called. So annoying. I do a thing when we watch gardeners world, which is really annoying for anyone else watching it with me, where I go euphobia. I can't do the double names. I can never remember, but I can usually remember one or two.

And I'm like, yes, that's euphorbit. It's funny now. I can't even remember the name of any other plants I would ever want to shout out. But euphobia is looking great at the moment. They are. They're gorgeous. But I'm really proud of myself because there are more and more and more. But, however, under pressure to call to mind any plant in my garden, I'm like, what? No, I've forgotten. Can I just say as well, Melanie has put together a list of bat friendly plants that you might want to pop in your garden to encourage those insects that they love to eat. So she's going to put that list We'll put it on our substack letter

Which is always full of all the stuff we talk about The records, the books, the television shows Even where Joe and I get our jumpers And the interiors, anything All the questions we get asked by people all the time Where did you get that jumper? And a lady said to me yesterday How do you grow your hair so fast?

I'm like, because I went to see Hadley And he put some pieces in it So it's all smoke and mirrors. Have you had that done? Yes, I've had it done. I didn't get a fringe. Okay. He's made me a fringe that I can

stick in what I want to. But I don't trust. I'm doing the old two-pay signer. I don't, I'm not sure I trust it. We decided not to do that. So we've gone with that. Same. I just had a mini one. Thanks to Eve, who pulls together the most brilliant substack letter of all the news from the pod that we can share. And obviously, if you share anything with us, that we can pass those on too. So thank you very much to Melanie, another great garden to be going to see at the RHS Chelsea. Oh, I'm really excited. Can't wait. It's coming up soon. Great digging. What else do we have? I've got pretty much nothing. I'm so, I'm so sorry. I've just been a bit busy, Joe. I had Paris Paloma in session on the radio show, on the radio two show. And she was amazing. She was really good. She's been on tour with Florence of the Machine. And she very much channels the spirit of Florence and machine. But she's very strident and opinionated and very intelligent and articulate, talking about women's rights, has opinions about the manosphere. She's a really promising great artist for the future. So I will bring that to create digging, but I've got nothing else.

I'm so sorry. Oh, don't be so. Well, it's actually a really good week for music to the point where I've got so many. So I won't go through all of them. But I'm Thundercat, who I completely love and adore, is collaborated with some amazing people on his new album, dedicated to someone very, very special, quite a moving story. And I'll let you look that at myself. Arlo Park's brand new album is out. Love Arlo.

She's quite a force as well. I know, Joe, she's often on your show. And this album, Ambiguous Desire, is an absolute, hot, it's classic. And also there's quite, it's quite vibey in places because she does that sort of moody, soft, heartbreaky kind of stuff really well. But there's a few kind of real vibeye ones. Lime Garden, Brighton band, amazing. They're actually going to be playing when Maccabees play on the beach. Oh, God, I'm so jealous.

In the summer in Brighton is going to be amazing. And Lime Garden, they are such, they just did a in-store. Resident Records, one of my favorite record shops in Brighton, and they are amazing. But this delight, and here is where I thank Resident Records, my local record shop. There's so many great. Do they deliver them? Honestly, I'm in there a lot. They're in the lanes, and they are such great guys. And so you get all the new stuff, but also then you find things. They have a great wall of recommends. And I found this. And oh, my goodness me. This has been put together by Bob Stanley of St. Etienne is on Ace Records and he does these fantastically curated albums where he collects music. And now this is called Wednesday morning 6am. And this is radio hits from the small hours 1970 to 1983.

And Bob writes about how Radio 1 was playing, you know, the hit parade back in the day. But Radio 2 with Colin Berry and, of course, you know, Terry Wogan and Ray Moore and even Ken Bruce back in the day were playing a different kind of music to Radio One that kind of wasn't in the charts. But if you grew up like I did, like you, Joe, in a household where Radio 2 was the sound you woke to every morning before you got into pop and rock music, you will love this album. I got so emotional listening back through some of these songs. Honestly, I think your mum and dad would love it as well. I'm going to put my specs on. There are so many gems on here. And these are the records that Terry would play.

And now I listen to this thinking, no wonder, I love this kind of music. You've got Barbara Dixon, you've got Matt Monroe. We're going to change the world, which is like an anthem, air supply. There's Crystal Gale. Castle's in the air, Don McLean. I mean, these are such, you hear them. You belong to me, Carly Simon, which you wrote with Michael McDonald, of course. It's all very soothing music, isn't it?

It's comforting. It's soothing. It's really calm. And it's a very lovely thing to listen to right now. in these kind of manic times to have that on the background. It takes me back to my grandma and granddad. There was always like the gramophone was in the corner of the room and it would just be these lovely lelting sounds of Matt Monroe who just mentioned.

And as soon as you think of that, I just feel like I'm seven years old again and everything's safe and comfortable and there's nothing to worry about. And that's what music does. I'm going to get this record. It's what music does. It is wonderful. You've got Gilbert O'Sullivan matrimony,

stumbling in Susie Quachow and Barbara, and Chris Norman, of course. and inside it's so beautifully compiled. Bob's written a great piece about Radio 2 and the music and the history of that and how it's sort of Radio 2 supported country quite all those years ago. And then he's written about each artist Anne Murray, all those fantastic artists.

It is a double album. I've already had a few diggers. I put it onto Instagram and a few diggers have got in touch going, oh my goodness me. And you've even got Taxi, the theme from Taxi, Angela, Bob James, on there. as you listen to that and that will take you back to your, you know, charming childhood days, when everything just seemed a bit simpler.

For a kid it was, I think the 70s had their problems for grown-ups. Very much so, yeah. It's quite a lot going on. But we were oblivious. All we were doing was, yeah. But we were oblivious. And it's the most beautiful double album of nostalgia. And you can get it on your, you know, you can get it on your streamers wherever you get your music from.

It is wonderful. Bob Stanley, thank you for making something so fabulous. Should we do it all again next week or in a couple of days' time? We'll do some digging in, yeah? Yes, please. Tell me what insane feats you've got this week, Joe. Are you going to be climbing a mountain and then hosting some glamorous event straight afterwards? I've got big photo shoots coming up.

Oh, you love those though. I do because I get to try on nice dresses, so I am quite looking forward to that. And then self-esteem in session doing things from the teeth and smile. production that she's in at the moment. Oh, great. Oh, I love it. Then big birthday party on Friday for India and Cass. So that's a science fiction. Happy birthday, India and Cass. Yeah, I've got to get an outfit for that science fiction theme. So I'm... Oh my God. Help me God. Well, because of Artemis too, there's, you know, I mean, there's a lot of inspiration there, whether you go as the capsule or, you know, how do I do that? Little tykes have now designed a rocket for kids to climb in. Amazing.

Yeah. Just the Artemis 2, surely that's, oh, is that science fiction? That's real. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Space. Yeah, that'll do. Will you show us the photographs, so we want to see the... Obviously, I will, yes, of course. And then new puppy, new puppy next week. So... You've got it going on, girl. Yeah, the big reveal will happen. We'll have a puppy soon. What about you? Absolutely nothing going on my end. Nothing going on my end at all. Well, I may or may not believe you. She said suspiciously. Hopefully, afterwards I'll be able to tell you. you about it all, but obviously at the moment I can't say anything about it. Okay. And I'm not going to ask you anything either. What could she be talking about? Have you had your hair dyed? Have you had your roots done? Have you had your colour? I've had my roots done and I've had some pieces put in by Hadley. Yeah, that's good. Because I need to be glamorous for something. Oh, why would you be needing to be glamorous? Oh, just, you know, for doing the garden. Okay, fine. I just caught a glimpse of myself in

the mirror and I'm just, you know, just for going down the shop. Strictly gardening then. I'll see you next time, darling. Well done, by the way, on doing the parks. I thought I thought you're pretty amazing. All right. And good luck. I'm proud of you, girl. Bye. Love you.

Digit is a Persephonicah production.