Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Anastacia: Music, Menopause & My Mastectomy

Starting point is 00:00:00 Coming up on dig it. The year I got my deal, I was earning an unemployment check. I was going to give up singing. Everything was completely different than it is now. Frozen shoulder, heart palpitations. The brain fog was so bad I thought I was going into early dementia. So that was like a seven-year stretch where I had no idea any of that was menopause. Let's have a mastectomy because, I mean, what if it comes back a third time?

Starting point is 00:00:29 Yeah. I mean, I'm not here to gamble my life. All of that right after this. Hi, Diggers and welcome to another episode. Now, Zoe is having a break, much needed and well-deserved break. So I am joined today by someone very special. I'm delighted that she's joining us and she's a true powerhouse of music. She may be a global superstar having sold a staggering 50 million records and now is

Starting point is 00:00:59 celebrating a brand new album heading out on tour. But actually, she's probably just like the majority of us, I think, making the the most of midlife and making the most of life. A huge Digit welcome to Anastasia and Brody as well, we should say. Anastasia, welcome to Digit. Hello, thank you for having me and Brody. And Brody, just explain to people who Brody is because I think we might see Brody in and out of the background or maybe he's joining you now on your lap. La La La La. Yeah, there he is. Yes, Brody is in the building, but he's just been roaming around the studio, feeling very at home. Oh, I love his haircut. What did you ask for? I give it to him. Do you?

Starting point is 00:01:36 But it was a haircut. My friend gave her dog, and I was like, tell me how to do it. So she gave me a clipper, and I have the summer and the winter clipper. Right now, he's still in summer. And then I cut his legs like every six months. They get long and I cut him. And it's kind of tipping out the ears and just keeping, trying to keep the shape the right way. The double pony here. I'm feeling like QVC right now. So you just form it and make it into. You've got a tour coming up. You've got the album coming out as well. So the album is called Symphonic Revolution and then you're on tour. And Brody is one of... Brody's on the roadie. Brody's on the roadie. He's, you know, tried and true and comes with me on the airplanes and comes with me in the tour bus. And he's enjoyed it very much. I think you've earned it, though, after the time that you've had in the music industry, you know, you've done it on your own for a very, very long time. So it's absolutely fine to have Brody with you. Tell me about this album. It's called, as I said, Symphonic Revolution. So explain what it is exactly. Okay, so in sort of the 25th year anniversary last year, I was trying to think of maybe not just a greatest hits,

Starting point is 00:02:48 but something that could be a little bit more unique and started saying, can we do it with an orchestra? And I had done quite a few performances with this one orchestra, and we started talking to them. They had done a lot of composing. of my music for the live show. And so that was the wish list and we did find a way to do it. And 60 piece orchestra, we recorded and mixing it was a whole other wonderful project, but I've never mixed an entire orchestra at all. So you just go, where does it all fit?

Starting point is 00:03:30 How do you do that as a, but I don't do it. Thank God there were people. people there that could do it. Professionals, yeah. Yes, the professionals. And yeah. So it kind of sounds like the album itself, when you listen to, let's say, left outside alone, it sounds more like a Bond-themed version. If you are loving Digit, don't forget to hit follow or subscribe and then you'll never

Starting point is 00:03:58 miss an episode. So when you look back, because this was a really reflective time, wasn't it, 25 years, 26 years now in the industry. What has changed for you personally? How did you reflect upon what it was like for you when you started out and to what you are now, where you are now? It couldn't be any more different. So when the year I got my deal, I was earning an unemployment check. I was going to give up singing. Everything was completely different than it is now. I feel so secure, so at ease. so happy, so comfortable, yet the music industry is vitally different than it was when I started. So would I say, I miss the record stores. I miss the details of music being so attainable in a

Starting point is 00:04:55 different way. But I enjoy the internet, just maybe not the saturated internet musically. Did you find in the beginning there was much support for you? Did you, Were there other role models, other women that you looked up to, or anyone who took care of you, helped you, guided you along the way? I think Alonis Morissette was saying that actually she had nobody when she set out and it was quite a lonely place to be. 100% when I was trying to get a deal, I had no one to say, well, I'm kind of like this or I'm kind of looking at that. There wasn't really anyone that I could compare myself to once I came out and the record company very much supported. what I was like and that I wanted to wear my glasses and that I was kind of like a little bit of a tomboy, not so girly, but my voice was very different. So embracing the fact that I sang very

Starting point is 00:05:51 different than anyone else. And they were proud of that and liked that. So I think that once I got in the business, oh my gosh, there were so many people that were so kind from Elton to Celine to Pavarotti. Like I had names that I never thought I'd be dropping on this podcast as people that were super open and kind with me to say, what can I do for you? How can I help you? Like, it was nuts that it, from the year to the year, it was like, you know, from ashes to riches.

Starting point is 00:06:29 Elton seems to have really led the way in that, the whole taking care, this kind of like pastoral element of being. a pop star being a musician, that it was him, I think, who first, everybody started saying, oh, yeah, no, I got a call from Elton. And just this idea of him checking in on people. What an amazing thing to do, because that was not happening before, was it? It really is. He is like the God Pappy. Yes. And fairy god mother, whatever he'd prefer, as to all musicians. And he supports the new musician from every decade and has given them just as much respect and love to each and every person. I don't think it's one more than the other.

Starting point is 00:07:10 He just loves new artists and embraces them so much that there is a validation. It gives a new artist that like it matters, that he says you matter. It's beautiful to feel that. I'll never forget how that felt. It's just, and I loved him growing up. It was like albums and the house. They were my mom's albums, but I just looked at the covers and listened to his voice and his energy as a young kid and was like, he's awesome. And I want a pair of those wind show wiper glasses, mom, now. Stap. She was like, yeah, another person needs to buy those for you. Did you get much female support, though? Was there kind of female friendship abounding in the beginning. Absolutely. I think that for me, Celine and I were on the same label. So that was a

Starting point is 00:08:05 lovely part of getting female support is that she gave me the, she gave me great advice, I have to say. She gave me advice that you don't have to always sing live on some of these wild TV shows in every country that you could pick and choose the certain. TV show because some of the inputs weren't, and it was better if you lip sync, the sound was better, everything's better. Top of the Pops did it a lot. No shame, no foul. It just was the better way to do it for the TV show, for the artist. And I was more driven to want to sing live because I felt like people wouldn't believe me that I really could sing that way. And she said, you've proved yourself. Don't run yourself ragged. You have promo to do. You have every.

Starting point is 00:08:58 going on, just as many TVs as you could do with it being effective for lip syncing, then you don't have to turn down the promo, you know, because it's really, they can't have both in three different countries, and they would really work us. You know that. Yeah. That in that time, things were very different for us. And as young artists, and I think a lot of young can relate that as much work as they can get out of you, you just will do it. You don't know any better, you know. And so Celine was very kind to give me that really respectful advice. And she also knew, if you say it, they're going to have to do it. And I was like, for real, that's how it works. That is fascinating. Yeah, just have somebody to tell you to stand up for yourself,

Starting point is 00:09:47 to stand your ground. So, Joe, I've got some news. Okay, tell me more. Hot off the press, Thursday. is the new Wednesday. Oh right. Okay. How come? Because listen up Diggers. New episodes of Digit will now drop every Monday as usual and Thursday, not Wednesday. Ah, so people can begin their weekend early with Digit on a Thursday. I like this. Excellent. Don't forget if you want your episodes early and ad free become a dedicated digger and subscribe to the potting shed. Why did you feel pressured to say because you said you were a younger than you were. Was that advice from somebody else or was that your instinct, your survival instinct? No, it actually was because the show I was on that got me a recording deal, which was the cut. I had to be 29 to be on the show. There was a cutoff age. And I had just turned 30, like by a month.

Starting point is 00:10:53 And I sang, they were happy, the audition's going great. And I'm like, oh, I have to drop the bomb. And I was like, okay, I have to tell you this. I have to be. honest, oh my God, I'm 30. And it kind of like, it was a silence and they were like, no. And I was like, I know. It's just, yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, I'm like, so I mean, I just turned 30. I don't know if that matters. And they're like, no. And I was like, I know. I'm sorry. And they're like, no. And I was like, no. And then the whole like, look across to your friends and be like, what do you think, like 21? What do you think like 22? And they were like, yes, I think 22.

Starting point is 00:11:35 Yeah, so she's 22, 23. And I was like, is that how I'm that? I was like, okay. I mean, whatever. I looked it. So I think it was quite an easy thing for them because I looked early 20s. If not, I could have been 19. So within that, when I signed to Sony six weeks later, after the show came out,

Starting point is 00:11:56 I was like, y'all know I'm not to remember. And they're like, oh, now it works for us. we're fine. Oh my God. What is happening? This industry is hilarious. So you were coerced to live alive then from then on. You were just having this kind of deceit. Well, yeah. I thought it was like, everyone does this. Even the record companies down. I was like, this is good. But then every year that went by girl, I have an older sister, younger brother. I was like, the math was not mathing. Super hard. I was like, how old is my sister? Wait. You know, I was just sort of answering questions like, oh my older sister she's older so um you know and my younger brother he's younger by three years and you know

Starting point is 00:12:39 so i just try to avoid the question that's some horrible pressure so when did you when did you clear it all up how did that happen when i was turning 40 i was like i don't want to be 40 and not celebrate it i just don't and so i did and of course all the time you know anesthesia lies about her age And I was like, well, you know, it wasn't necessarily a lie for me. I was just holding on to the fluff that people were. And I just, I wanted to say it because I just felt like even though I've only been in the industry for like whatever amount of years, like 10, I didn't want to continue the weirdness. So, yeah. And then since then, I've been abroad.

Starting point is 00:13:30 living her best life every year. But then isn't that the joy of being, you know, the older you get, the more confidence you have and the more you just don't give a shit what people think. So good. I'm so happy to tell people I am in menopause and hating it sometimes, loving it sometimes. Yeah, it is what it is, honey. It's just confidence. Through age comes wisdom and also comes confidence of the no shits.

Starting point is 00:13:58 You know, you just don't give a shit. What's your experience of menopause being like? I know because you've had breast cancer, so I wondered whether you've been able to, whether you've had hormone treatment or what your whole experience has been. Okay, so that's the difference. When I got my first breast cancer, it was early. And because I went in for a breast reduction, randomly the plastic surgeon said, go get a mammogram.

Starting point is 00:14:25 I did. They found breast cancer. I didn't know at the time it was early. So because it was a shock and it was not expected and it was, and the press released it like the second day after I found out. So everything was kind of a whirlwind. I said to myself, I don't know what stage it is. I want to get this breast reduction. If I'm going to die from breast cancer, then I want it done at the same time. I just want to know if I'm going to be in a casket, I'm going to have small poopies. I'm going to have small. I'm going to have

Starting point is 00:15:00 small tautas. So that was just like me winning, I guess. And then I found out it was, it was early. And I was very, very lucky, extremely lucky. I mean, had I not wanted a breast reduction, would I have gotten it much later? Probably. And then there's a different situation. So I only had really intense radiation and no chemo. So I was in a really good place once the second cancer came and it also was early. That didn't put me in a place where chemo was necessary, but it still was like maybe we'll give you a round. And that was sort of my deeper logical brain going, let's have a mastectomy. Because I mean, what if it comes back a third time? Yeah. I mean, I'm not here to gamble my life. And that was my choice, which I really appreciated having,

Starting point is 00:15:58 that I chose to have a mastectomy more for knowing that once I get off that table, cancer's gone forever. It didn't get past the limp nodes. I was one of the lucky ones. And then it didn't really affect the hormones for me taking anything. Are you still going through menopause or is it behind you now? How, I think you're a couple of years younger than me. Right. So how it, I went to the other. end and did not realize I was at the other end. So even though I was having hot flashes and going through that, I also was doing these other things that I didn't know were part of menopause, frozen shoulder. I had heart palpitations. I had these awful migraines that would turn into nausea

Starting point is 00:16:50 and then take me out for like two days where I was done. The brain fog was so bad. I thought I was going into early dementia. So that was like a seven-year stretch where I had no idea any of that was menopause. So by the time the migraines were getting so bad that I had an attack where I couldn't drink anything for two days and I was severely dehydrated and had a doctor come to Switzerland. And he mentioned to my assistant, has she ever checked her hormones? And I love how people are like, they're very like nervous to say it to someone. And I'm like, really? I think I have a brain tumor. I think my something slipped in my neck. I'm dying. That's what's happening. And then I got it checked and I had no, no numbers. I was like, what's my number? She's like, there aren't any. You're done.

Starting point is 00:17:45 You have like nothing in your body. I was like, so immediately I'm like, get the patch, get anything, made a difference right away. So the. amount that it can add to your life way before you, way before I did it. I suggest every woman to do that. Even when they say, oh, you're in Perry, you're, you know, your numbers are a little low. Find someone that is willing to start early with you because every moment you lose a little bit of the female in you is something you shouldn't have to go through. Period. That's my mom. belief. But it must be exhausting being on stage, like physically, the physicality of running around. It's a massive workout, isn't it, every time you're on stage? You know, it is. And I'm quite aware now

Starting point is 00:18:37 how to do the all or nothing kind of plug-in, plug-out. So when I'm on the road, it's a boring life. And now, not with Brody, though, I will say. It is fun, but not, I don't go out. I don't go to, like, dinners or on the off day. I'm not out and about because I really need the unplug. You know, I need to charge my battery in order to give the fans and the audience the actual record they like, which is me singing it live, which, to be honest with you, had I even thought about what I was deciding to put myself through writing these crazy songs from the lowest note to the highest note of my register,

Starting point is 00:19:27 it'll be nice to write like a shot A song somewhere here and there, you know, but I don't know if I could have effectively pulled it off, you know. So you look after yourself, you take care of yourself, you rest, and then you have enough energy. Can I just ask you briefly about your family, about your brother? You mentioned your brother earlier on. You were saying how similar we are. My sister's got learning difficulties, is learning disabled. And okay. Younger, older sister? Younger, three years younger than me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother is well, he's two years younger than me.

Starting point is 00:19:57 Are you his care? Like, do you look after him or are you responsible? My sister and I both, my older sister, three years older, and she's 60, by the way, gonna be 61. Shout out to the right ages. So Sean is the more of the caretaker, but both of us are guardians, God for bit anything happened because we don't want that to exist. My mom is still alive, totally fine, but older, and Brian needs a little bit more caretaking. The older he's getting, he stays eight years old. So it's kind of like, you know, he's sort of going back to like a little, sometimes younger, because as you get older, you think everything's easier, but for him it's not.

Starting point is 00:20:48 There's a mechanism in the brain that when children get past like 10, they start to have this revelation that, I forget the word right now, menopause, but I'll find it. And there's a click that happens. Brian's kind of in a loop where we kind of have to tell him something again. per example, there's a list on the refrigerator that we have that are his daily things that we want to make sure he does. So let's say there's a toothbrush and a shower and things like that. Like Brian, because he's an eight-year-old, he like is like, check, check, check, check, check. All at the same time, check, check, check, check. Sean's like, wow, so you did the laundry you're supposed to do at two o'clock? It's like 10 o'clock.

Starting point is 00:21:40 Oh, well, no. And we're like, okay, Brian, you got to check it off when you actually do it. Oh, yeah, right. Two weeks later, we'll have to say it again. But it's okay. It's kind of like the, you know, we don't mind reminding him because we know it's not intentional. Just like you wouldn't necessarily get frustrated with a younger kid as you would, a little bit of an older kid, that should know better, you know. So we know Brian's not intentionally doing something. But we do. know that if there is something he wants as any child, like he knows that it's Saturday for his Starbucks. Like, we haven't gotten it. Yeah. At Christmas, he's like, where are my presents, you know? Yeah. But so at Christmas, birthdays, they're all about Brian for us, you know. Briefly, how did you find it growing up as a sibling? I'm intrigued how you think it shaped you and what it was like for you. My mom used to say that, well, Brian didn't really have laying language until he was like five and he sort of spoke this other language that my mom said

Starting point is 00:22:50 I knew what he was saying. Don't ask me because he was like three. I must have been, you know, five and he'd be like, blah, blah, blah, whatever to my mom. And she would ask me what is Brian want? And I was like, he wanted to peanut butter jelly. Like I knew what Brian wanted. It's like kid I don't know. So she said that I kind of knew what he wanted. I don't really understand. Maybe it's a language him and I developed. So I find that fascinating. And then as sisters, when we knew that Brian was more vulnerable as we got a little bit older, even in our, my, you know, double digits as I started, we knew that if anybody was, you know, talking down to Brian or wanting to do something. something, we'd immediately be like, you know, we'd be very almost more protective. And, and now there's, there's quite a welcoming factor. You sound like a great gang. The three of you sound like a great gang. Oh, we are such a great gang. And Brian makes us laugh so much and doesn't

Starting point is 00:23:58 mean to, but every child makes us laugh when they're just living their child life, you know. Yeah. So Brian's, you'll say, oh my God, Brian, you look great today. Yeah, I do. Like, so confident. I never had confidence when I was a kid. Like, he's just not been tormented by society. He is so, no wrinkles, like baby skin. Really? That's annoying. Yeah. Brian is aging like glass. I need to ask you about gardening because on Dig It, we talk a lot about gardening. Is that anything that's ever entertained your brain at all? God, I wish. I think the best thing that I did in my life is when I lived in Florida, I was like, I'm amazing. I can grow an orchid. And it's because it's growing itself. It's humid. It's like,

Starting point is 00:24:50 I thought it was amazing. I'm like, look at all these are on the tree. But yeah, I've killed a cactus. And it's just the truth. Orchids are hard to keep alive. I'm impressed you kept an orchid alive. I find them really difficult. I didn't keep it alive. The earth kept it alive. Like, I didn't water it or do anything. I would attach it to a tree or attach it to this orchid wall I had that was, like pieces of wood that would be wet or not wet, and it had a little drip service thingy on it, drip service. I don't even know what that's called. Water drip thingy. So, yeah, don't know all the words. Some kind of water system, yeah. I was so impressed that I could grow the hardest thing to grow, but my mother has a green thumb. Oh, there you go. She kept an orchid alive for six or seven years

Starting point is 00:25:39 from Elton. Elton sent your mom an orchid, or he sent you an orchid? He sent me. He sent me. an orchid. But of course, you know, it gets passed down to somebody who can appreciate it until, you know, once it starts being like, I'm not here, my mom takes it and it becomes a new aged orchid living its best life years later. So any great TV things that you've seen lately, we do something called crate digging, which is where we do recommendations of music or bands who have discovered. Oh my gosh. If I had my iPad with me, I could search my history because I get so. sucked into one thing. So there is a series called Furious that I really enjoyed. That was amazing. Series out there. Adolescents blew me away. Oh, that was so good. I mean, we all know that,

Starting point is 00:26:24 but it was when I saw it, it was like way early in the game. And I think it was so surprised by the, by the continued shot that they actually did. And I went back and watched it again because it was so amazing. Last film you saw? Have you seen any films? I'd imagine you have no time do anything because you're constantly doing into speaking to people like us. The last one I remember seeing was wicked because I wanted to see it in a theater. Yeah, I wanted to see that there so I could live my best life. With Cynthia and Ariana and yeah. But I loved it and it was great to see it in a big lovely theater. Listen, Anastasia, we have to wrap there because you are a very busy woman. Thank you so much talking to us. And good luck with the tour. Oh, thank you so much. It's the

Starting point is 00:27:13 NTK tour, which kicks off in September. It's a big night at the Ovo Arena in Wembley. It's Saturday, the 26th of September. And Anastasia will join us for Digin on Monday to be able to get more of her there. But for now, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much, Jo. Digit is a Persephonicah production.

Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Anastacia: Music, Menopause & My Mastectomy

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