Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - DIG IN: Hair Special - Grey, Growth and Good Blow-Dries

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Sara Pascoe and Zoe Ball are joined by celebrity hairstylist and all-round hair genius Michael Douglas to tackle your biggest hair questions. From going grey and hair loss to summer damage, fringes and the secret to a blow-dry that actually lasts. Somehow, a hair special turns into a rather brilliant lesson in confidence, self-love and feeling good in your own skin. Who knew hair could be quite this empowering?FOLLOW MICHAELWe absolutely loved having the brilliant Michael Douglas with us this week! ✂️✨If you're as obsessed with his hair tips as we are (we're genuinely considering starting a cult...), you can find him here:📸 Instagram: @mdlondon🌐 Website: mdlondonTrust us - your hair will thank you. 💇‍♀️LISTING ON SPOTIFY? VOTE FOR US!We’ve been nominated in the Listeners’ Choice category and we’d love all our diggers to vote for us! If you’re on your mobile - click here - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DX74ZgzrlyH29?si=gQnhQXxwRp6raOwn5libsQ&utm_source=whatsapp&pi=Ch3Ra0dWQ7GYW GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by Panda London, Costa Coffee and L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm.🐼 Panda London — Make hot nights more comfortable with Panda London’s beautifully soft, breathable and thermoregulating bamboo bedding. Head to pandalondon.com and spend over £50 to receive a free Bamboo Eye Mask with your order using code DIGIT.☕ Costa Coffee at Home — Start your morning with the same great Costa taste you know and love, now in your own mug at home. Costa's new Everyday Instant Coffee is inspired by their iconic Mocha Italia blend and comes in three varieties: Smooth, Intense and Decaf. Available in selected large format supermarkets across the UK, subject to availability.💄L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm - Ready for a new era of foundation? Discover your perfect shade of the New L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm online or at your nearest Boots or Superdrug counter.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanProducer: Harriet Thurley & Samantha PsykAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Cameron Laird, Alex Bell and Jack Whiteside Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Coming up on dig it. We have to make sure that we don't always assume that grey is a negative, that grey hair. It's just a fact of life. It happens to everyone. It's a life stage. It happens at all different ages. Some people go grey very early. Can I point out this incredible? Yeah, brush. I had no idea that this was yours, Michael.

Really? This has changed my life. Your life is basically a bunch of feelings and they're yours. You don't experience anybody else's feelings. You only experience your own. Once you realise that, it sets you free in a peculiar way. All of that, Right after this.

Hello, welcome to Digit. It's Monday and we're doing a hair special diggers. So I'm joined once again by the wonderful Sarah Pascoe. Sarah, how are you, darling? I'm great and I've got hair. I'm ready. Do you love your hair, by the way? You've got gorgeous.

Is it natural? Is it naturally blonde? It's highlighted. I've had disasters. I lost a lot of it after having children and I had to cut out a really big knot a few years ago. I had a mullet unintentionally for a while. Oh, nice. I would say I love my hair, but I don't hate it as much as I did.

Aren't most mullets unintentional, though? Do they, do people, isn't it usually the beginning? I really wanted to have a mullet quite recently. I'm not trying to carry it off. Well, Woody and all his mates. His girlfriend, Rugi was cutting his hair. She does a really good job, and she was giving them all mullets. I was like, I want a mullet.

But what I also want, Sarah, I really want a moustache and beard. because it will cover, firstly, you know, in a sort of selfish vein way, it will cover the worst lines that I have, this kind of thing. Because, you know, men, they just look so great. And also I kind of... I think they're very handsome. Yes. But also, I think you're really harsh on yourself. I see on the podcast, you keep talking about your face and stuff. And I think you look amazing. I think you're being very critical. You're very kind. You don't need a full mustache. Yeah, but I've always been in love with Kenny Rogers and Michael McDonald's. And there's. just something about a full. You know what I look at Ryland and everything? I want that. It looks quite fun.

Anyway, he's not going to be talking about beards. Well, you never know. He might get to talk to beards because we have the brilliant hairstylusist Michael Douglas with us. He's worked with everyone from Naomi Campbell to Gwynis Paltrow. He's here to answer all of your hair dilemmas right after this. Michael, welcome. It's so lovely to have you back on the podcast.

We love you. Should we talk hair? Yes, please. Because we're doing a hair special with Michael. That's why he's here. Our first audience question, Michael, is from Tracy. She says, I'm ready to embrace my grey, but I don't know how best to do it. What's the easiest way to transition gradually and to feel confident with going grey?

Okay. So I get this like 100 times a week, this question. What I love about this question, it's got the word confident in it. How do I feel confident to do it? And a very interesting idea around confidence is you get confidence from doing the thing you don't want to do. So you don't get the confidence first. You get it afterwards. So my advice is to just do it. What a lot of people want to do is bridge the gap. They want to say, well, I don't want this big line. So I want to kind of fill the line in. So I disguise it and all that stuff. All you're doing is prolonging the agony of it.

Because if you start colouring the grey hair, you've then got to grow that out. Now hair grows at about 1.4 centimetres a month, so you can do the maths of how long it's going to take you. But I would compare it to like putting braces on your teeth or something like that. It's just like you've got to do it. Just do it. A brilliant client to a friend of mine, Dawn French, did it the best way I'd ever seen anyone do it, which is you grow it out for about four months. You get yourself about five to six, seven centimetres of growth, and then you cut all the dark hair out. and you have short hair for a while

and you know you embrace this thing you find out who you are with this kind of short hair you'll be a completely different person you'll discover all sorts of things about yourself and then you can grow your hair back to where it was before it'll take you about 12 to 18 months to do it but one of the kind of jokey bits of advice I give is just stop looking in the mirror

stop letting it control you just get on with it and do it if you want to do it but dawn French is a brilliant person to go and have a look at her Instagram page, go back through the history and see how she did it. And look where she is now. She got this absolutely beautiful, steely, white, grey bob with a fringe. She looks like Dawn, but she looks like a whole new Dawn. And in between, she had this amazing quiff and this lovely short, spiky text. It just looked brilliant. But it's so interesting, because that word confident, that's what I would describe Dawn's decision as. When you see a woman who has made that,

I assume, oh my God, she's so confident. She's not worrying about what people think about her. She's she's looking in the mirror going, okay, I've got this much grey, I'm going to make this decision. And sometimes you can sort of fake it till you make it. If you behave more confidently than you feel, that's how the world will interpret you. That's exactly. And when I see anybody who's grown their grey hair out, I always do a big congratulations to you and well done you. And that's the thing that you want. But you get it at the end.

You get it once you've done it. So don't think there are any shortcuts to it. If you apply a shortcut, you're just going to elongate the purpose. process. And also, I guess we have to make sure that we don't always assume that grey is a negative that grey hair. It's just a fact of life. It happens to everyone. It's a life stage. It happens at all different ages. Some people go grey very early. And Dawn's a great example of, I think, as well, someone who just suits it so much. She looks amazing, as you say. The other thing is, grey hair is a sign of getting old. That's what it, that's what it is. But what we're doing

is actually reappropriating grey hair at the moment. It's no longer a sign of age. It's a sign of confidence. Look what I did. I did it and I don't care what you think. You know, it's a brilliant thing to do. So well done to anybody who's done it. So Tracy, good look. Nocle down. Yes. Go on with it. Good luck, Tracy. Maybe send us some pictures, Tracy. Yeah, yeah. Do that. Keep us updated. Because this is that thing, Michael. I'm, you know, I bleach my hair. And so it's sometimes when you bleach your bleach blonde, it's hard to see how grey you are. And I've really found with my blonde colour that you get to an age and it stops taking the colour in the way that it used to. Used to. Yeah. And this is something I found and it gets

a lot more sort of khaki. It doesn't seem to hold it as long. Yeah. Okay. So normal hair, let's say normal hair with natural colour in it. It's got all these different colour pigments in it. When you bleach your hair or light in it, those colour pigments get removed. You're essentially decomposing the hair and due that decomposition, the hair goes orange first and then it goes yellow and then it goes pale yellow. Grey hair is actually just white hair. There is no pigment in it. So that process of it going orange and yellow can't take place. So if you're bleaching white hair, essentially nothing happens to it. If you want to put blonde into white hair, you have to put blonde artificial pigment into it. But that's the change that takes place. It doesn't react the same

way because you're not lightening anything. That pigment's gone. So you're actually just damaging the white hair. So I also bleach my hair. And I always check the roots because I have quite long roots for grey hairs. And I haven't found any. And so blonde people go grey. Yeah, yeah. It's much less noticeable.

It's all the same process. It's just a genetic thing. The gene stops producing the melanin and it all stops. And you inherit that from your parents, really. But yeah, just essentially the little manufacturing plant that produces, the melanin grains just stops producing. them. And that generally happens in a particular area. So one of the great myths is if you pluck out a grey hair, you get two in its place. That's not true. It just so happens that where one

melanin producer shuts down, it's highly likely three or four of them will shut down in the same area. So it feels like you've plucked one and two have happened, but those two would have happened anyway. So this is from Bev. I've noticed more hair shedding than ever before. How do I know what the cause is? Is it noticeably different if it's stress-related or hormonal? That's interesting. Not really. It's kind of the same. It's very difficult to pinpoint the reasons for hair loss.

But essentially your hair is a life cycle, right? Out of one follicle will grow, let's say, four strands of hair. You get a long one, which is the one you can see. Somewhere in there, there'll be a medium-length one, and then there'll be a little short one and maybe a shorter one. After four years, the long one drops out. The medium one takes over, the short one takes over, the medium and a new one grows out. So you're losing roughly about 10.

10% of your hair at all times and about 90% of it is growing new hair. So there's in a shedding phase or a growing phase. Now, every so often, if your body goes into flux, so puberty's a big problem. Obviously, the hormonal changes around pregnancy and what your ovaries are up to and all of that stuff. And then the menopause, the hair cell produces mega-sensitive. So there's a changes going on in your body. That 10%, 90%, starts to go like 30%, 70%, so you can start to shed a lot of of hair all at once. The menopause is a big problem because estrogen and progesterone help keep that balance. So if you stop producing as much estrogen and progesterone, the testosterone that you've got starts to become more active. It attaches to a little receptor in the follicle and it shrinks the

follicle, you start shedding hair. So there are loads of reasons for it. So don't pinpoint it. I get a lot of people that say, oh, I've got menopausal hair. But we say don't categorize it as that. Your hair is shedding and it could be shedding for loads of different reasons. But don't necessarily. I think it's just one thing. The other thing as you get older is that females get something called female pattern boldness. It's the same as male pattern boldness, but you don't tend to lose it all. People just go very thin on top. So there's a lot of reasons for it.

One of the things I would say is that if you're under, let's say, 45, the chances are that it's just a phase that will settle down. It takes about 18 months to settle down. you could be shedding a lot of hair, stressing, worrying about it. But I often recommend just patience, just wait, see what's going on your body. Have you cut out something in your diet? Are you doing less exercise or more exercise? You know, are you on Ozempic or have decided to go on some kind of calorie deficit? All of these things make a massive change in your body.

And all you're waiting for is your body to re-align itself to this new type of lifestyle. and your hair will start to respond in a normal way. It starts to re-it. I was called it homeostasis, really, which is where everything starts to work again as it should. But it's usually due to changes in your life and they can be divorce, they can be menopause, they can be moving house, they can be illness,

you could have an undiagnosed virus, there'd be all sorts of things. So it's not just one thing. But I would say to people, search yourself, what's going on inside you? Are you okay? Because it's such, obviously, can be such an upsetting, anxiety-inducing thing for people to go through. There's a whole market of stuff advertised, especially to women, to try and, you know, vitamins to help.

Are any of them worth the money? Because people do spend a lot of money on either products that you put on or even like infrared things. You're like helmets now, and they cost hundreds and hundreds. And it feels like from what you're saying, maybe just wait it out and be as healthy and try to stress a bit less than C. Yeah. I personally try not to take any supplements. I want to get all the nutrients I need from stuff I eat and the things I do in my life. There are one or two things that really work.

One is an ingredient called monoxidil. It was created by Johnson Johnson as a blood pressure medication, but they realised somewhere in the 60s and 70s that it produced hair. So you can buy products with monoxidil in. It's topical. It goes on the scalp. And for some reason, they don't necessarily know it can produce new hair growth and it will stop or slow down the shedding process.

That actually works. So you're looking for a product that's got monoxide in it. That is the thing we know definitely works. Your hair is protein. So it grows as a result of having excess protein in your diet. So if you can get your diet up to 55 grams of protein a day. And if you think about chicken breast having 30 grams, this is why collagen supplements are good.

Collagen is protein. But if you can eat an extra egg a day in your diet, that's about 8 to 10 grams of protein all the amino acids that you need are in an egg. It's the greatest supplement you can eat. If you don't like eggs and stuff like that, then you can start to supplement your diet

with various pills and stuff like that. Lots of beans are really great, butter beans and cannellini beans. Yeah, because they're protein. Yeah, and you just chuck them extra, just extra in your spaghetti bolognese, extra in something else in the salad. There's a hierarchy of needs in your body of protein.

So when you eat the protein, it all goes to all the things, building muscles and bones and new brain cells and stuff. But your hair is last on the list for that protein. So if you don't have enough in your diet, your hair is not going to get very much. But if you can get the protein intake up, and this is why vegans, vegetarians, I'll often see suffering with hair loss,

especially if you're new to this new type of diet, hair goes crazy. And again, people having gastric bands and stuff like that, the diet gets restricted, the hair's not getting what it used to. So protein is a real big one. if you can up that, then great. But lifestyle and trying to feel relaxed and all that. Brilliant. Thank you.

Good look, Bev. I wish I'd had lecturers at college light, Michael. It's like fascinating. You know your stuff. It's brilliant. I'm learning. I need to take notes. Learning loads.

You're great. You know, a bottle of products is not going to do it. You do it. And the bottle helps you. That's what I'm trying to fill in that gap, really. If you're enjoying Digit, don't forget to hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you listen on Spotify, we'd love your vote in the British Podcast Awards listeners choice. Just open Spotify on your mobile, search British Podcast Awards,

and you can give Digit up to three votes if you fancy. And thank you so much, as always, for your support. You're brilliant. So another question for you, Michael. This question will be topical for a lot of people at the moment, and it comes from Nicola. What is the best way to protect my hair and scalp during the summer months from sun, heat, chlorine and humidity? Yeah, okay. So the sun actually just acts like bleach.

The same process takes place when you put bleach on your hair. The sun's UVA and UVB essentially decomposes the hair ever so slightly, and that's why it starts to go through the lightning process of going a bit orangey and then a bit yellow. A lot of people call it brassy. So anything you can put on your hair to put a barrier between the sun and the hair is good. So a hat, a headscarf, bandana, that is literally the best thing you can do. But I always put sun cream on my hair. I just get factor 50 sun cream and just get it in there.

It won't do the same as it does on your skin, but it will create a barrier and it will give you some protection. I know Garnier have just brought out a hair scalp and skin UV. UVA, UVB, factor 30, I think it is. Your scalp is just skin. There's no difference. It's just that, but there. So if you've got a parting in your hair or something, and the sun is going to burn your scalp there.

So just get a little bit of sun cream on that. I love these ones that come in an aerosol these days, and I actually use it like texturizing spray. Get it on your scalp, get it in your hair. Tie your hair in a braid or a bun or something like that. The more you can protect it from the sun, the better. So that's one thing I would say. There's not particular hair product.

that are good, but the existing sun cream products are actually as good as they get. And then the other thing is chlorine's kind of a problem. It's actually the copper sulfate. If you've got swim pools, you know anything about them. They put copper sulfate in the pool and that's what keeps it clear. Now, if you think about copper, oxidizing copper on a copper pipe, it's that greeny color. And that's the oxidation that's taking place in your hair. That's why it goes that greeny color.

So kind of shampooing your hair every day. we're on holidays quite good, some kind of clarifying shampoo, apple cider vinegar, stuff like that. I was told ketchup. When I went to Micanos, when my husband and I were early together, and I just bleached my hair and it went really, like very noticeably green. And then they told me to put ketchup on it. So I was putting ketchup on it. So if you look at the color spectrum, the color star, when you were at school, red is opposite of green. So all you're doing with the ketchup is applying red to green which neutralises the green. But actually it's a kind of elastoplass job really because the green still exists. You're just masking it with red. What you want to do is get the green out. If it's a lot of

green in your hair, you can go to the hairdressers and you can do something called a flat toner. And a flat toner is essentially a bit of powdered bleach, but no peroxide. And that just opens the cuticle of the hair and releases the tone that's in the hair. It's a little bit damaging for the hair, but it does get rid of the green. But the best thing to do really is to try not to get too much of that copper sulfate attached to the hair. So either putting conditioner on your hair before you go swimming, some cream as well, something like that. Anything that creates a kind of oily barrier between that copper and your hair is a good thing. But just washing it every day is probably a good thing when you go to get ready for your night out.

Oh, I guess there are swimming caps, which like you say with the hat is the best way. Well, bring back the swimming cap. Do you remember the ones with the big flowers on? Yeah, exactly. They're sort of on a par with the varucca sock for me. Yeah. They bring back strange memories. I can smell the weird rubber that they were made of.

Yeah. So my hair is quite thin. It's just, I've bleached it over the years. It's done a lot when I'm doing telly and stuff like that. So I've put up a picture here because lots of people say to me, oh, your hair's lovely, Zoe. You do have lovely hair, Zoe. You do.

Yes, but a lot of it is not mine. So here is a picture of me without all my hair pieces in. Oh, wow. Yeah. That is a picture of me when Hadley Yates has put. little pieces in and he just did them yesterday and actually we did it quite quick so they're not massively matching at the moment because my hair in the summer is changing color and I'll get them more matched but they do thicken it thicken it out a bit and then I just tong it and it just

holds for a bit longer because they've got to be on camera quite a bit but what I have found is he was like your the the cut of the pieces are going a really weird color and apparently it was the sun cream I was using because they were just going a bit pinky so he was suggesting tie it up, use sun cream that has, is it like a mineral sun cream? Just a clear one. Anything that's not white and creamy, there's lots of clear ones these days. Those would be the thing to use. Great, there we go.

But lots of people who ask me, so how's your hair always look good? I'm cheating, okay, because without these pieces in, it looks a bit rubbish. And I get them replaced every sort of few months. Then have a little break with them not in. And then I see myself and scream and then I have them put back in. But if you have got, I mean, I don't know, long term. is it not a great thing to put pieces in your hair, Michael? I'm thinking, does it pull your own hair out?

The trick really is, is the section of your own hair you're taking has to weigh more than the new bit that you're clipping in. So if the new bit you're clipping in is heavier than the section it's taken, it'll start to create what they call traction alopecia, which is where you pull the weight of the hair starts to pull your own hair out of its follicles. So a good hair extension person, and I'm sure you've got one, It will know that the size of the section they're taking compared to the bit they're putting in makes a big difference.

But one thing I would say to people is, what other people don't realize is if you look at the back of your head, the hair grows from the very top all the way down to the bottom. This whole section grows hair 100% of it. If you look at the side of your head, you've got an ear and then your cheek. So you actually only grow 50% of hair here. And that's why everybody's hair is thin here and thick at the back.

So if you increase the density of your hair here, to match the back, then you've got really lovely hair. So a great little tip is you only need two one or two little hair extensions in the sides here. And this stuff starts to really thicken up. And that's what's happened to your hair. That's why it looks so good, is there's an evenness between the back and the front. Thank you. We've got another question. The million dollar question, which comes from Ali. She says, how can I figure out the most flattering hair length for my face shape and how will I know if a fringe will suit me or not? Oh, to fringe or not to fringe. That is the question. That's the battle I have all the time. This is what you always hope when you

go and see a new hairdresser is that you'll sit down and they'll be like, no, no, no. And then they'll just know. And then all of a sudden you'll be like 10 times more beautiful. And it was always just the wrong haircut. Never really works that. I mean, the face shape thing is a myth. right? It was created by journalists like 20, 30 years ago. And as a young hairdresser, you know, back in the day, I was trying to work out, what is this face shape thing? What suits this and all this kind of stuff? It doesn't matter. You know, your face shape is irrelevant. Your hair type is the thing that dictates what you can and can't have with your hair. So don't get bogged down in what would necessarily suit you. What's brilliant about the world we live in now is we have this AI machine and you can put

your face into it and you can ask it, what would I look like with this? And you can see it. And what the hairdresser is really looking for is some commitment from you. They don't want to shoulder the responsibility, the whole responsibility of what you look like. What they're after is an agreement between the two people, the person in the chair and you, to say, let's do this thing together. You know, but a lot of people are so terrified because we are saying that, which is a good haircut, won't change your life, but a bad one. one will. So nobody wants to enter the kind of world of bad bad hair. Or hair that they can't upkeep. Yeah. That's really what I'm saying is. Big question is, how long do you want to spend doing your

air in a morning? Because that will determine what we should or shouldn't be doing to your air. Because if you've got wavy, fluffy, frizzy hair and you want a sleek, smooth style with a little flick on it, you can have to blow dry at least three times a week. Do you want to do that? And if the answers, yeah, it's like, great, let's do it. So there's a lot of other contributing factors, but face shape is not one of them. It's never anything I've considered. The other thing that's driving hairstyles is fashion. You know, people want to look like a particular thing. I love pictures. Come to me with pictures. Come to me with a mood board of what the kind of thing that you want. What do you want to feel when you look in the mirror? That's the real trick, you know. And there's lots of different ways

of doing that. But hair type is a much greater indicator of what you should and shouldn't be having with your hair. I'm thinking of some of the pictures I've taken over the year. they've always been, it was Stevie Nix, it was Bridget Bardot, it was Rachel from Friends. That's the big one. I think Sienna Miller. I'm like, why don't I look like Sienna Miller? It's like, well, your hair does. It's just your favourite.

You could definitely be hair twins with Sienna Miller. Oh, bless, you are lovely. She had a baby quite recently, didn't she? So she was in her early 40s or maybe 40 and she just looked so beautiful. And I thought, the trouble with someone like Sienna Miller. She does make you aspirational for things. And he's like, you won't look like Sienna. Miller when that's you. Oh, bless. We've got one more question for Michael. Yeah. So this is from

Hannah and she says, what is the one hair styling tool that you think is worth investing in for someone who doesn't really feel confident in styling their hair, but still wants to look and feel great? I really listen to this because I never, I don't even have a hair dryer. So this is the kind of, so sometimes, no, because I'm the lazy person. I'm the one. If I sit down in a chair and they go, tell me a hair routine. I go, I don't wash it. It's always up. unless I'm working and someone else has done it. I don't know if I've ever met anyone who didn't own a hairdry before. That's amazing.

Well, I'm sure I had one at some point, but it was cheap. Wow. Your hair always looks great, Sarah. If I go to work, actually, I think for bleached hair, it's in good condition because I never put any heat on it and I don't ever wash it. But it does mean I'm a dirty girl. I look horrible in my real life. So the answer to this question obviously depends on what is it you want to look like.

A general answer would be a hair dryer with a nozzle and a decent round bristle brush. Now, I do this with Davina quite a lot, is that I will blow dry her hair on maybe a Sunday night or a Monday morning or something like that, just out of love. You know, it doesn't necessarily need to be done, but I'll say, do you want me to blow dry your air tomorrow? She's like, oh my God, would you? That's so lovely. Yeah, and then she does not need to do anything to it literally till the following Saturday. if you can put a good blow dry in your hair, a good base if you like. And then all that happens really is on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

She'll put a little bit of dry shampoo in. We've got this lovely product called number five, which is just a volumising texturizing spray, a little bit of wax or serum on Thursday. And then Friday's a little ponytail and bingo. Got a whole week's worth of stuff done out of one brilliant blow dry on Monday or Sunday night. So I would say a hair dryer with a big nozzle and a round bristle brush. And my job really here is to try and help people do this thing, blow dry their hair really well once and give yourself like five days of great looking hair. One of the things I'm selling here also is time.

You know, I'm selling you like half an hour a day. You get two and half hours of your life back as a result of doing this. So now if you've got naturally curly hair, it would be a diffuser. You want to dry a diffuser and do a really good job of diffusing your mega brilliant curly hair on day one. and you can make those curls last a long time. But I would say a really good hair dryer and a couple of hair products that's suitable for the thing that you want

is the answer. And a brush, a bristle brush is a bingo. More bristles and more control. What you're trying to do with hair is get every single strand to do the same thing at the same time. That is frizz-free, shiny hair. But if you've got 10% of the strands

doing random things, your air's frizzy. So learning to blow dry is the single best thing really you can learn. learn to do. So a dryer, a brush, maybe a blow-dry sprayer, a bit of product. Can I point out this incredible brush? I had no idea that this was yours, Michael. Really? I saw it in boots and I was like, this is what I need. This has changed my life, this hair brush. So I now, once a week, sometimes it has to be twice if I've been working in there's loads of stuff in it. But I blow

dry my hair with this brush and it gets every strand. Every bristle, yeah. This is every, it's so, one of Michael's brushes. And I freaking love it and I keep buying it for friends of mine. I'm like, this has changed my life, this hairbrush. And then I just use a big tongue, which are new to me, a big talk. Because I've tried doing it, wave with straighteners and I just end up making them right mess. But I do a big tong and I just go, tong tong, clip it up the top of it.

And then it holds for like a week. And I mean, I do get to the point where it gets a little bit scabby and I have to put a bit. But you're right. It is that. It's like a good blow dry. Sarah, you obviously don't need to worry. because you look, you always look amazing.

I have to say, Sarah, could you send me your address? I'll send you a hairdry and a brush. You get to work. Which she won't use. So for someone like me, that would be the thing. The reason I don't do anything, I mean, I don't think I've brushed my teeth today. These things fall to the bottom of the list. But what you're saying is Sunday night is a great idea, even if it is.

You know, the kids are in bed or you're watching your TV program. Do it then so that you can jump out of bed and feel like you're already put, together. It's such great advice, Michael. What I'm trying to do is encourage people to do an act of self-love on themselves and then have the feelings of love and they get them. They're virtually free really these feelings. Doing something good for yourself, looking in the mirror and loving what you see is a brilliant experience. It's available to everybody all the time. That's the bit I'm trying to encourage in people. It's so huge. And also I think this is where the spending comes in. People go, what should I buy? And you're going, it's not about buying more stuff. It's about

doing this thing. And I think that's such a beautiful, positive message. And the self-love thing, doing something for yourself and everyone's, especially women, always doing stuff for everybody else. And it's not about insecurity. It's not because you don't look great. It's because doing it will make you feel a bit better. And that confident word again. Yeah. Your life is basically a bunch of feelings and they're yours. You don't experience anybody else's feelings. You only experience your own. Once you realize that and that you can encourage good feelings in yourself, it sets you free in a peculiar way that actually you're in control of the way you feel and actually go, go, go, you know, lots of things you can do to do that.

Do you know what? I thought we were going to just be talking about hair, but I feel, I feel in figurative, I feel alive, I feel inspired. I'm really hoping that all our diggers. Michael should be available on the NHS. Michael, if you started a cult, I would join. I would join too. I am.

I'm going to start one next year. Consider, consider whatever you need. You're recruited. Yeah, I'm recruited. Oh, Michael, thank you so much. Anytime. We've got so much more than the questions there. It's absolutely fabulous.

And I tell you what, will you give our love to your girl? Oh, absolutely. She said this morning that I should give her love to you both as well. So there you go. Oh, thank you. She's accepted. Great. Boom.

Michael, darling. I hope you enjoy some time together and because you both work very hard. I hope you get a little, you know, bit of time on your own for a tip. Thanks so much and congratulations on this podcast. Great work. Oh, well done. Thank you, you guys. Love your podcasting. Yeah, thank you. Bye. Digit is a Persephoneka production.