Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - DIG IN: Mum Guilt, Jägerbombs and Imposter Syndrome

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Jo and Zoe open up about the tug of mum guilt and the moments you miss when work and family collide. They share honest tips on how to silence that inner critic and start believing in yourself. GET IN TOUCH 📧 Email us: [e-mail] 📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795 💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp: https://wa.me/447477038795 GET EARLY AND AD-FREE EPISODES Become a member of The Potting Shed for early and ad-free episodes and bonus content 👉 https://digit.supportingcast.fm/ SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep and Airbnb. 🛏 Eight Sleep — Meet the Pod 5 (and Pod Blanket): cool or warm each side, track sleep, and help reduce snoring. Up to £350 off with code DIGIT: https://eightsleep.com/digit  🌍 Airbnb - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host/  CREDITS Exec Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Assistant Producer: Eve Jones Technical Producers: Oliver Geraghty Video Editors: Danny Pape and Connor Berry Dig It is a Persephonica production

Coming up on Dig It. If I really think about it and I think about the things that I've missed out on, the normal family life stuff, it's just too much. And it's an ongoing struggle. It's tough, you know, and the kids sometimes will tell you, they'll be like, you're not here for that. You weren't there for this. But it cuts deep, doesn't it?

Yeah, it really does. We both have imposter syndrome. What if it wasn't rubbish? What if you were actually good at what you did? When I go to the pub, I'm like, can I have a cup of tea? What's your go to a pair of tea? Yeager bombs always go down particularly well to kickstart a party. All of that right after this.

At Harrison Healthcare, we know that lasting health starts with personalized care. We're not just a clinic. We're your partner in prevention, helping you achieve your health and longevity goals. Our expert team combines evidence-based medicine with the compassionate, unhurried care you and your family deserve today and for many years to come. When it comes to your health, you shouldn't settle for anything less than exceptional. Visit Harrisonhealthcare.ca.ca.com. Hi, Zoe, welcome. It's time for digging. How you doing? Hi, Joe. I'm good. Actually, life is sweet at the moment. You have to be careful, don't you? Because 10 minutes later, that can all change. But for now, all pretty good. We're getting more and more, which is wonderful. If anyone wants to know how to get in touch with this, it's all there on the show notes. And we, I mean, the questions are varying so much. And I think they really reflect what our lives and your lives are like. So just bring it on, bring it on. Send us some more and share with us all the ridiculous and the tricky bits of your life. And we'll just chat about it here on a month. morning. So should we have our first question? First question is from Didi. Hi, Didi. I'm wondering if you

have any advice on mum guilt. I have two amazing boys and I also work full time. I love my job. I'm definitely the more career focused out of me and my husband. But sometimes I worry I'm missing out of the boys' childhoods when I'm working long hours or weekends. Sometimes the guilt eats me up, especially when I see other moms who seem to do it all. Did you two struggle? with this, how did you manage? Firstly, Didi, do not be fooled. Sometimes you look from the outside, it may seem that people are doing it all. On the inside, I think is a very different story.

So, yeah, you think, hang on a minute. She's totally mastering this. But yeah, don't be fooled. We're all struggling. You have a conversation with that person, first in the morning or over a cup of coffee, and they'll be going, I am struggling to hold it all together. I don't know how it seems. And, yeah, we are all those swans just kind of serenely going along.

underneath, just paddling furiously well out of control and just trying to keep afloat. That's what we're trying to do. God, Mumgill, I've always had this and we're in very privileged positions, I think, the jobs that we do. We're very, very, very lucky. But it does mean that we work unsocial hours. And Zoe, I know you have as well. We're at different ends of the day and it's really impacted the family. When I was doing the evening session, I think I've mentioned this before, but it meant that I was working in the evenings. And I've always worked in the evening. So it's meant that I've not been able to do school pickups very much. Can sometimes I've not been able to sit there on sofa and watch the one show or watch any kind of TV stuff or go out and have

meals and films and all that kind of normal family evening stuff that goes on and quite often at weekends I'm working too. So it's like a balancing thing, isn't it? You have to weigh up. What are the benefits of what you do and what your kids get out of it? When I was doing the evening session, I gave that up because I just couldn't bear being away from India anymore and she used to cry in the evening. She'd be like, Mom, you know, I never see you. When are you going to stop working in the evenings? And that was the major factor for me going on today. daytime at Radio 1 because I just couldn't bear not seeing her in the evenings. I've now had lots of other children. So they keep themselves company. So I don't feel quite so bad if you know what I mean.

Because I know that the family are having a nice time, even though I'm working, it's okay. But if I really think about it and I think about the things that I've missed out on, the normal family life stuff, it's just too much. And you know, you just mentioned the phrase, eating me up or eating up alive. I have that and I have to suppress it. And I'm sure you do the same. I'm just like, oh my God, I've missed out so much on what they've done. And I just can't go there. I just literally cannot go there. but I know that the kids have benefited enormously from me working, whether it's life experiences or whether it's financial, the family being able to have special times together,

that I've managed to make it work. And it's an ongoing struggle. It's still here, you know. Yeah, and often, you know, families, both parents have to work, lots of families relying on grandparents or friends to help with the kids. You know, I had a lot of guilt because there was always amazing women who helped with my kids whilst I was working, you know, and their dad toured and was away a lot.

So trying to find that balance. And also as single parents then, because, you know, we're split. So the kids were split between us. Again, trying to find that, well, you can work then. Oh, you're going to be working loads. Then that is not good because then I'm not, you know, relying on childcare. And worrying that your kids are too much with someone else and not with parents. It's, you know, there are so many different struggles.

You know, and I get there's mum guilt, there's dad guilt. But most families, you know, someone has to work. And, you know, I have friends where one person hasn't had to work. And it's not always because they haven't had to or they've not been able to work. Or some relationships where people, someone has chosen, all right, you earn more than me. You work. I'll stay home and look after the kids. You know, it's, I think in every single family, everyone is trying to find the balance.

And it's tough, you know, and the kids sometimes will tell you, they'll be like, you're not here for that. You weren't there for this. Oh, you know. And it's a, it can be a job. It could be said in jest. You know, Woody's always like, well, he's like, well, you didn't raise me. Tracy raised me because you were always working. I'm like, yes, and I love Tracy and she did a fantastic job.

And then Tracy actually wanted to go and raise her own daughter. It's like, and I'm very grateful to the super women who have helped me. Because some people rely on family and, you know, my folks weren't nearby. So I did, you know, and I earned enough that I could pay someone to help with the kids. So I was, again, very privileged. But it is, yeah, I missed some key moments with Wu. I think I did better with Nell because I learned. It was 10 years difference between them.

It's like, right, I need to be there for this and I need to be there for that. But it cuts deep, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. When they say these throwaway things. I was talking to Coco at the weekend and she was talking about riding a bike. We were in Amsterdam. Everyone was on bikes and she went, oh, I remember when I learned to ride a bike. As soon as she said that, I was like, oh, God, I really felt hurt inside.

Because I remember she was spending a lot of time with some friends of ours. I mean, they were her family when I was working so hard. and I got home one night and they taught her to ride a bike. And I was so, I was devastated. And when she said it at the weekend, I was like, oh God, yeah, I remember they taught you to ride a bike and I was really annoyed. And she went, no, but it was great. And her perception was how brilliant it was that they taught her to ride a bike.

And I just thought, okay, I got to bury that feeling because that's what it was like for her. And it was completely different for me. And I have to be really grateful for those people who looked after her so much when I couldn't. And they taught her to ride a bike. Yeah. It's little things, little things. I know. I think the guilt is a good thing because it makes you aware and you care.

So you know it's not always ideal. But I don't think it is ever ideal for anyone that, you know, having kids and trying to work. And people are really struggling at the moment. And you're just trying to find that balance. And so I think it just makes it all the more important that when you do get time together, I think that's why holidays can be so important or, you know, checking in at a weekend. And sometimes, again, that's devastating because suddenly you're not. working and you're available to do all these lovely things and at that point is not convenient

for the kids because they do something else. You're like, but I'm here now and you're next week you're going to, you weren't even there. And I'm like, but I was there. And now you don't need me. Now you raise them to be independent and then you're like, oh, okay, fine. Okay, you're really independent and you don't need me now. But I think you arrange things, don't you? If you are working, if you're not around an awful lot, if you are working at the weekend, then you may be arranged like a date night on a Thursday where you all go to the cinema together. or you have a special occasion or do something, have a games night at home. And they mean a lot more.

Maybe the kids, it's just one of the mill, but to you, it's a memory that you can cherish or a moment that you can cherish. And my kids laugh so much when I use phrases like that. Magical memories, magical memories that you cherish. They're like, oh, God, you made me sick. But you do. It's really important. I look at my own parents now and I realize, you know, I get my parents quite a hard time.

They went through it, you know, and they didn't stay together. And, you know, there was all the complications of all the relationships that follow on from that. And it's only when you become a parent and you look at how difficult that is, you know, and whether it's working or it's divorce or the stuff that happens in life, life is difficult.

There is a lot going on. And so, you know, the kids might not even realize that. It's like, okay, I'm trying to work. I'm trying to financially support the family. I also am trying to stay sane. There's all this other stuff going on. And you are just doing your best. And we're learning.

We're learning all the time. And I now look at what my parents did and what they were surviving and what they were struggling through and the stuff that they'd inherited from their parents and all that stuff and their guilt. You know, my dad has terrible guilt about the school I went to. And it's like, Dad, it's all right. I did all right. I did okay. You know, because I gave him such a hard time for sending me to convent school. But it was all right.

You know, we all survived. It was what he thought was right at the time. Yeah. Yeah. So he thought it was right at the time. Absolutely. You're just doing your best. Sometimes you feel like I haven't done my best.

And then you'll be like, right, I'm going to do things slightly differently and you change it up. But don't give yourself too much for a hard time. If you're loving Digget, make sure you hit the follow on Apple or Spotify. It means that you will not miss an episode. They'll download to your phone as soon as they're out. We've had an email from Anita now. And Anita said, I finally finished renovating my house now that the kids have moved out. And for the first time in years, I've actually got the space to host friends for dinner.

So I would love to hear your tips. What are your go-toes when you're hosting? So specifically, Anita wants to know, favourite pre-dinner drink or cocktail to serve. What food do you usually make? And most importantly, what music is playing in the background. Don't come to us for food. Neither of us get someone in. We are big fans of a spicy margarita in the house.

My friend Beth perfected the Soho House spicy margarita because I think they were some of the first guys that did it and involved cupping coriander, putting it in your hands and sort of clapping around it. And apparently that makes all the difference according to her. I always find, though, with cocktails, I don't know if you have this, Joe, when you go to a bar and a brilliant cocktail guy or girl,

knock something up, it just tastes delicious. You try and make a porn-style martini at home. They taste absolutely revolting. Also, we've become quite a great. quite big fans of the ngroni in my family and my brother makes killer ngronies. But that's probably not a pre-drink. That's a later drink because they're pretty strong as they have three types of alcohol in. What's your go-to aperitif?

What's being drunk in yours? Probably not me drinking these, but I know Yeagerbombs always go down particularly well to kickstart party in style. We've got quite a lot of shot glasses with a mast over the years. So there'll be, it'll either be Yeager-bombs or baby Guinness. Oh, yes. I had a baby Guinness at a critical. Christmas party.

Yeah. What is a baby Guinness? Okay, Baby Guinness is two parts, Tia Maria, because when my, when Cass sent me a message going, Mum, can you pick up some Tia Maria from the supermarket? I was like, you drink your Tia Maria. But then if you mix it with Baylis, it looks like Guinness and there, that is a baby Guinness. Yeah, I did. I was given one at a Christmas party and it was not unpleasant.

To be honest, I don't drink a lot. I can only really drink. I didn't drink for a huge part of my life and now I can brilliantly have one or two drinks and it never goes further than that because I just can't take it. I think, you know, menopause changed all that and it's, that's a good thing, to be honest to me. But I do, as a result, I do like a cocktail because I don't love wine because I've found that I can't really drink wine anymore and I've never drunk beer.

So you get a bit stuck, you know, when I go to the pub, I'm like, can I have a cup of tea? I've gone back to being a student and having cider because it's a long drink, you can sip at it because I'm the same as you. I can have two spirits. So I'll always go for vodka. And maybe sometimes I've gone back to Jack Daniels fairly recently. But if I go over too, then my head will hurt so much the next day. In terms of music, I mean, I will go with Vampire Weekend all day long.

I was thinking about my holiday. Well, who did I listen to most? It would have been Vampire Weekend because they have music for every mood. So they have like upbeat, chirpy stuff. But also they have really beautiful melodic things. So I would probably do a Spotify playlist and just do Vampire Weekend Radio because then it will reflect loads of Vampire Weekend songs. like, but then also artists who are a little bit like them. So some Father John Misty will appear

or some Maccabees will appear. I love those playlists. I think for background music, you just put in the kind of mood that you want. So if you want an upbeat party playlist or you put in Chapel Rhone and have a chapel rhone playlist and it will just tailor it to your needs. So I'm a big, big fan of those playlists that happen. Zoe, we should do a playlist. We should do a dig it playlist. Let's do a dig it playlist. Okay, a bit of your stuff, a bit of my stuff and then we'll see where it takes us. Because also, whenever we've talked about music, Like when we talked about music that the kids were born to, it's prompted a conversation amongst lots of our viewers and listeners

about the things that their kids were born to. And there's some really funny stories in their headers on Instagram said, I had Moon Safari by air during my C-section. Such a great album. We chose not to find out the sex pride to giving birth. My daughter was born to sexy boy. A second track on the album. Didn't realize the C-section would be so quick.

Yeah, if it all goes smoothly, it can be very quick. Head is great choice, though. Great choice. So we've had an email from Cal who says, my partner Katie loves Digit. She's really enjoying it while on maternity leave with our four-month-old daughter. I keep overhearing it, and I must admit to dabbling on my commute to work.

Can you just give her a hello? Because maternity can feel like a lonely old place, and she's doing a fantastic job. So, yeah, it's Katie. Cal's been in touch, and it's Katie. Thank you so much for listening. And it can. You can feel a little bit icy.

You can feel like you're going like stir crazy when it's just you and the baby, which is obviously very precious, but also sometimes it's a bit much. So thank you for listening. I'm glad that we're keeping your company along the way. You just need to chat to grown up sometimes, don't you? And it's the sleep scenario where you're never getting enough sleep. You don't really get to recover in the day. And it can be a long time on your own. So yes, I'm glad we're keeping your company, darling girl. And how lovely have Cal's get in touch. that message. Good partnering there, I would say. On baby teeth, Joanne's been in touch. She says, I got bag checked at Stansted Airport a few years ago. My work bag was my keepsake place for my son's baby teeth. Needless to say, much embarrassment when they emptied out the jiffy bag containing them. Fortunately, they understood, where else would a busy mum keep such treasured things? And they did see the funny side. That's hilarious. Well, it could be quite macab, couldn't it? It's like, We've got body parts coming through here, mate. Oh, sweet.

We got teeth. Oh, God. It's gross in a way, isn't it? Isn't it gross, really? Finally, on Monday, we presumed being that a vet must be a pretty lucrative career. So I think that might have been my bad, but lots of vets have been in touch. So hi to all the vet community who listen to this. Here's a voice note from Katie, just to clear a few things up.

Hi, Joe Ansela. I love the show. I've been listening to it whilst out on a run. It keeps me going. I'm just replying to your bit about vet. and vet bills. My husband is a vet and my one multiple comment is, don't go in it for the money. Oh really?

Quite well paid. You really have to do it for the love of the animals because it is incredibly stressful. They don't get the credit probably the same as doctors do. Just because they're following dealing with patients and because the bills are high, so everybody feels like they're ripping them off. But really the care would, if it was a human you're paying for medically, it would definitely be a very high bill, if not higher, and the vets are charging, but it's just because we've got the lovely NHS,

which is not used to paying for medical. So yes, as you said, get the insurance, cover yourself. But if you're thinking of a new career, bet medicine is not for you if you're in it for the money. For the love of the animals. Oh, Katie, thank you. Yeah, thank you for that because of course, of course it's for all the equipment and all the stuff, isn't it?

It's not necessarily for the individual vets. I feel terrible now because, of course, Us humans have the NHS and we're very, very grateful. I should also say thank you. I just wanted to say thank you to everybody who's got in touch. I talked about disco Steve and how hard it's been for him since he lost some really close friends. Those people, those friendships that build up over years and years and years and you have those jokes, you have the banter, you have the history. And when they die, when they go, you're left alone and your world is so much smaller.

And that's been really hard for Steve. and the lovely messages that have come through has been just incredible. It's been so, I mean, I found it really emotional. But fantastic. It's been really, really sweet. He's had lots of friends contacting him, lots of strangers, people who live in our area,

all inviting him. I cannot tell you how much golf he's going to be playing over the next few months. Oh my God, he got a message from, it's been, honestly, it's been so heartwarming and lots of other people saying that they've been in similar situations. They've either lost their partner

or they've lost their best friend of like 40 years. and so they know that feeling of what it's like. So I want to send them lots of love and wish them best of luck with pursuing you hobbies, with doing new pursuits, which is what a lot of people have been suggesting joining new clubs. But he did get an old friend getting in touch with him the other day. And this friend said, oh yeah, I was playing golf with Gareth Southgate the other day. So maybe you want to join us when we go out and play golf next.

And Steve, it's like, I can't even play golf. What are you on about? But he might become mates with Gareth South. Kate, there's a lovely friend. I think they'd get on like a house offer. No, this is amazing. Even having that conversation, people are reaching out. Yeah, the kindness of strangers has been overwhelming.

It's been a really, really beautiful thing, and it's made us smile a lot, and it's made us laugh. And it's actually motivated him to meet up with people that he hasn't seen for a long time and to try some new things. So thank you very much for that. We're going to take a quick break for some ads. Don't forget, if you're enjoying the podcast, you can become a subscriber. to the potting shed. You'll get longer episodes, bonus content and access to our members chat room where we can share tips. Also, you get early access to those live shows when they happen. But most importantly, you'll be supporting the show. To subscribe, head to digitpod.com.com.uk. Or tap

the link in the show notes. This episode of Digit is sponsored by eight sleep. Hot flashes can be a nightmare during menopause. Absolutely. Waking up at a sweat at 3 a.m. Duvee on, duvet off, window open, freezing by dawn. It's exhausting. The pod five from eight sleep aims to save you from all of that. That's the temperature regulating mattress cover, right? Yes, it has a hot flash mode. It cools you before the hot flash even wakes you. Really? And one side can change temperature and not affect the other side, so no complaints from the other half. That's so clever. It tracks all your sleep stats, even your heart rate without wearing anything. And there's a mode where you just tap the bed to cool instantly. I love that. So you fall to sleep faster, you stay asleep longer and you get that golden

extra hour. Head to 8Sleep.com slash dig it. Use code dig it and get up to 350 pounds off the Pod 5 Ultra. That's code dig it for up to 350 pounds off the Pod 5 Ultra. If you're tired of being tired, sleep better with 8 sleep. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. So my daughter's just been off again. It was Amsterdam this time. And you know what it's like? The house is always so quiet when the kids disappear when they're away. Oh, totally. Woody's the same. Always off on adventures with his mates. And I love that for him. But it's strange how quickly the house can go from chaos to total silence. I know. It's also made me think, actually, there must be quite a lot of spare bedrooms out there. I bet there is. And people could put them to good use by hosting on Airbnb.

A lot of people think you have to host your whole place. Well, some people, host their spare room now and again. Yeah, I mean, it's really flexible and also it can work to your schedule. You can choose to host when it suits you and pick up a bit of extra money along the way to put towards a trip of your own. I never say no to a trip away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com.com.com. We've had a voice note from Wendy. Wendy with an eye. It's important. Hello, Wendy. I just wanted to say hi and ask a question specifically for Joe about being 60. I'm going to be 60 this year too.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I had a reasonable 50th, hated 40, hated 30. So I'm kind of already building it up in my mind. So if you've got any tips on how to get through it. And the other thing was imposter syndrome. I'm an artist and I work alone in my studio. Once my brain goes into a downward spiral, It's easy to hate what I'm doing.

And then imposter syndrome kicks in. And I think that affects my work. Look, I know you're not a self-help podcast, sorry. But I just wondered what your thoughts are. And if you've ever suffered either of you with imposter syndrome, loving the show. Bye. Thank you, Wendy. Well, we're not a self-help podcast, but we can empathise, I think, can't we?

We have these conversations. So, Wendy, thanks for reaching out. Joe, what would you say to Wendy about the Big 60? I think I mentioned that I became really aware of it, probably just because of the job that I was doing and I kept getting spoken to by so many different people when I was being interviewed. Not even journalists, but anybody I know, they just kept going, oh, you've got a big birthday coming up soon. So everybody makes you aware of it and face up to it.

I mean, maybe that's a good thing. I probably, if it had been left to me, I would have just brushed it under the carpet. I would have ignored it completely and been in denial. And that's what Disco Steve did. He just has always, he's always been 19 and he will be 19 forever. But I just felt like I couldn't. I just gave in. I just like, okay, I'm going to celebrate this.

I'm going to have to. And, you know, being alive at the age of 60 is something to celebrate because we've talked about this so much that there are many people who don't have that privilege. So it's, I think Wendy, you just have to go, I can't do anything to change this. I am this age. I have lived this many years. How can I make the best of the years that I've got ahead of me? And what have I got to be proud of and to be how?

happy about at this age, what have I got to look forward to? And that's what I've tried to do. It's difficult. I think the hardest thing I've found is suddenly my parents seem a lot older. Because I'm 60, it means my parents are now 80 to 90 and my in-laws as well. And I'm finding that really hard seeing them get older. Again, I'm really lucky that I've got them, that we've had them in our lives for this length of time. But it does feel like there's a shift. There's definitely a shift in our lives. And we're like, oh, okay, we're this age. We've got to look after ourselves. also look after our parents as well. And so there is suddenly a weight of responsibility that I'm feeling to Wendy.

I don't know whether that's something you can relate to as well. Being 60, I've made myself think, right, I need to do the things that I want to do in my life. So it's about planning trips. It's about seeing friends. It's about keeping fit. So I've tried to make myself assess how my fitness is and get my shoulder fixed because that's impeding the amount of swimming I can do. And just getting my act together, maybe being 60, makes she just suddenly take stock of everything and go,

right, I'm going to get my act. together, what do I still want to do? How do I preserve this body that is served me quite well at the moment and how do I make the best use of it going forward? And Wendy also, you talk about imposter syndrome and I think whatever walk of life you're in, it's something that everybody has. I saw a survey the other day and it said that 75% of women suffer from imposter syndrome and only 50% of men suffer from imposter syndrome. So maybe it's something peculiar to our sex, which we should attempt to change. But I think, you know, you're an artist, so you're probably comparing your work with things that you see in galleries, things that you see online.

maybe on Instagram. And you kind of have to, it goes back to what Zoe was saying the other day. You have to put on your steel knickers and you have to go, do I want to put myself out there? Do I believe in what I'm doing? Do I love what I'm doing? Well, I do.

And therefore I'm going to carry on. I'm going to be creative. I'm going to make my works of art and I'm going to be proud of what I'm doing. The other option is not daring to do it. And that would be to deprive yourself, I think. And that would be not to be true to yourself. So I would urge you to carry on being creative, carry on making what you're making and be

proud of what you're doing. Put yourself out there because the reward in the end is worth it. Yeah, absolutely. My brother Nick is an artist and he really struggles with that. It's almost like you sort of lose perspective and a lot of artists are very hard on themselves. I have a lot of friends who are incredible painters but they won't have shown you on their work. They don't want to sell their work because trying to believe in themselves is so tough. That's when you kind of want your friends and loved ones to be able to say, look, just keep going and believe in yourself. And maybe sometimes it's trying to get yourself out of that rut of thinking negatively. And I was taught this thing once by a great therapist and I, it was to do with work.

And I was having that thing just before I would go live. The voices would all start. You're really rubbish at this. You can't do this. You're terrible. And she taught me a really lovely trick. Two tricks. One was turning to the voice and just saying, yeah, that is your opinion right now.

But I've just got to go and do this thing which involves me. concentrate. Can you just hold that thought for a minute? I'm just going to go and do this. It's almost like just trying to stop the negative voice and quieten it for a little bit in order for you to do your thing. And another thing she used to say was, what if it wasn't rubbish? What if you were actually good at what you did? What if the thing you were doing was successful? So what if the piece of work you're working on is actually really good? What if you are a really talented artist? What if? You know, and even having that conversation, so it's just trying to stop the role of negativity to hang on a minute, what if I was quite good? What if, you know, and there's a difference

between being like an eagomaniac, but there is a thing, you know, it's just trying to stop the the voices of the negativity and just for a little minute, pause them. It's just a little trick. Sometimes it can work. Sometimes it doesn't, but those are little things that have helped me sometimes. Yeah. Or sometimes just write it down, write it down, you know, rant it like crazy handwriting. Oh, I'm feeling like this. I'm feeling like that and I'm really struggling with this and I'm struggling with that, but just get it out of your head onto a piece of paper, shut that book, put it away, go and have a cup of tea, have a walk. And sometimes just getting that out of here, somewhere else and then moving forward. These are just some little things that I've

tried that have helped me at times. But just know that we both have imposter syndrome and I think that everybody you speak to will also have that feeling as well. That's it for today's episode, but if you want even more questions and answers, become a member of potting shed and you get longer episodes. Remember if you have any questions or comments, we would love to hear from you, so bring it on. Details on how to subscribe to the potting shed and how to get in touch are in the show notes and we'll see you on Wednesday. Have a good week. Digit is a Persephoneka production.