Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Failing Exams, Parenting in the Phone Age and the News No Family Wants

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Jo and Zoe talk candidly about finding their careers after exam failures, the anxiety that comes with parenting in the phone age, and share some very sad news from home. GET IN TOUCH 📧 Email us: [e-mail] 📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795 💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp: https://wa.me/447477038795 GET EARLY AND AD-FREE EPISODES Become a member of The Potting Shed for early and ad-free episodes and bonus content 👉 https://digit.supportingcast.fm/ SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS This episode is brought to you by Ancient + Brave and Airbnb. 🛍Ancient + Brave - Get 20% off your first one-off purchase with the code DIGIT at 👉 ancientandbrave.earth/planet 🌍 Airbnb - Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at https://www.airbnb.co.uk/host/  CREDITS Exec Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan Assistant Producer: Eve Jones Technical Producers: Oliver Geraghty Video Editors: Danny Pape and Connor Berry Dig It is a Persephonica production

Coming up on Digit. I feel like I haven't been completely honest with what's going on in my life, but I can't. I just can't talk about it. Oh, darling. Sorry, I thought I should do it, but I don't think I can. Oh, no. I got a D, an E, and a U in my A levels. Go, girl.

I mean, it's really important that people know that they can fail. If I've ever given my kids a hot time about being on their phones too much, I will hear, Mom, put your phone down. You are such a hypocrite. There I am. Doom scrolling. All of that right after this. At Harrison Healthcare, we know that lasting health starts with personalized care.

We're not just a clinic. We're your partner in prevention, helping you achieve your health and longevity goals. Our expert team combines evidence-based medicine with the compassionate, unhurried care you and your family deserve. Today and for many years to come. When it comes to your health, you shouldn't settle for anything less than exceptional. Visit Harrisonhealthcare.ca.ca.com. Hi, Joe. Hi. Oh, look, we're back at home. It's been quite a chore to even get here on time today, to be honest with you. Yeah, you weren't actually on time. Can we? Should we just get that out? I was very late today because I didn't sleep very well last hurrah because I foolishly agreed to let Minel have a last hurrah before going back to school on Thursday. But I will bring this up again in a few weeks' time because this will not be the last hurrah. There will be, oh, but mum, we really need. a last hurrah. She doesn't even call it that, by the way. She calls it a gathering. So Nell goes back to

school on Thursday into GCSC year, year 11, big deal. Apparently she's locking it in. We've mentioned this before. But last night I allowed her to have, I think it's about 12 lads and lasses. That's, that's quite big. It's quite, yeah. So she said to me, I'm having a gathering just a few people. I'm like, hang on a minute, that is a party. That is, that's more than a gathering. What time do it stop? I was at Music Off at 11. But there was a lot of turn the base down, turn the base down. Because either side, we've got people living in either side, and there's flats and there's houses.

It's like that base is coming through two floors. So God knows what it's doing to my lovely neighbours. And it's a work night because people are going back to work. But they did. They kept turning it down. There was a bit of back-to-back DJing going on, I believe. Some really good tunes as well. I'm like, oh, I love this one.

Did you at some point think, maybe I'll go and join them? And then you were like, no, no, because I know the reaction. I'm going to get if I walk down there. Can you even imagine? But they're very cute because they'd appear at the door now and again. Hi, Zoe. What are you watching? It's like, just go back to your party. No, I love it when they do that. They're so gorgeous. They are so gorgeous. And do you know what? They're friendly. They're really charming. They're really engaged. And that is, that's important. But they are not so charming, funny and engaging when it is half-past-12, quarter to one, one-a-clock, quarter past one because this is a three-floored house so the boys are downstairs the girls are

upstairs most of them have gone home but some stayed over spoken to all the parents that's fine but the boys will be down and the girls will be up and oh they were up and down doors banging on like is someone being ill then i'm paranoid someone's going to fall over something someone's going to fall downstairs or even someone's not drunk enough water and they've had you know it's it oh i did not sleep a frippin wink yeah you exhausted i'm absolutely shattered I am so, and it was the kind of, I'd pop out, be like, where are you going? Where are you going? Oh, we're just getting water, are you now?

You were just getting water just now. When you get a big jug, up and down, up and down. Oh, so-and-so's not feeling very well. Up and down. It's so hard to know when to intervene, isn't it? And they didn't do anything bad. It's just the noise. And I can't sleep because I'm worried.

But you're only worried because I'm exactly the same when we have parties. I'm always the one that makes a party stop. And I hate that reputation because it's not really me. but I just worry about our neighbours. And we've got a lovely, lovely man, Roy, who's 90 and he lives next to room. I mean, thankfully, his hearing is not amazing. But I'm just lying there and bed just going, oh, my God, poor Roy, poor Roy. And in the end, you're just so frazzled that I've been known.

Like you just said, you went down your t-shirt and pants. I've done exactly the same thing in my pants, going into the minuscule of sound and just going, well, you, turn it off. And you then see all these faces, and they're just like, oh, Coco's mum telling us all. or whoever, you know, India's mom's telling us off. And I don't want to be that person. But it's just, it's not even that I can't sleep.

I just worry about all the people around me. This is the thing. We are worried. We are natural worries. Yeah, our mothers upset people. And I'm worrying about, yeah, I don't want to ruin the party. I don't want to be the one who says poo-poo. But I did explain this all to Nell before.

I went, you know, I will get annoyed when this happens. You also know I'll get annoyed when this happens. I've got the podcast. Also, it was quite cute because they're all like, oh, we'll come on the podcast in the morning. they were still heard talking at five because I did eventually get to sleep and when my mate went out to the gym

this morning it's like they're still talking at five so they're not going to make it because they're not going to be awake till possibly noon or one. So they're still in the building there are people still in the building do you know what it doesn't smell too bad

I've checked the bathrooms you know I've checked gardens there's quite a lot of debris out in the garden how is the garden because that's my other paranoia that I'm just always like oh God Does somebody falling over into the hydrangeers and crushed them and what state is it going to be in?

We have become those people. I'm like, if they flattened the one surviving hydrangeer, no, the garden doesn't look too bad at all bless them. No vomit in the geraniums. I will report back later if there's, yeah, because there's usually a football, there's usually sort of human remain. No, there's not human remains. I really hope not. If you're loving Digit, make sure you hit the follow on Apple or Spotify. It means that you will not miss an episode.

They'll download to your phone as soon as they're out. Hey, listen, since I last spoke to you, there have been GCSE results in your household. Is everybody happy? Everyone's fine. Everyone's fine. It's good. It's okay. Oh, I'm so pleased.

We were away, and the results came through, so Coco was doing everything remotely, and all her friends were as well. And they all ended up going to Reading, and she did not, because I said we had to go on holiday. and so I've been racked with guilt about that because they went. It's just such a, oh, it's really horrible. It's really horrible. Anyway, the results came out and they were fine. You know, the best thing about it was that she passed maths and she won't have to retake maths.

And that was hugely significant. And it was just a major relief. She did really well in art because she's an artist. And so that's all that I really cared about. I read something the other day after the results. I think it was Lorraine Candy posted. And it was in praise of being average. And I was like, yes, because that's all I've ever been.

I've only ever been average. And that's what my kids do, because, you know, we're not kind of the brains of Britain or anything like that. But all that I cared about was that she worked really, really hard. And she got great results. You know, they weren't nines, but they were good results. And you start seeing all this stuff on social media and in the papers. And it's everybody talking about having A-Stars or nines or eights. And you start going, oh, my God, oh, my God.

I've done some intense coaching or something like that. But actually, the most important thing is that you get the results that allow you to do what you need to do for the next stage of your life. And as we said to Coco, following on from that day, which was really emotional because you get the like the dread and the fear and then the results come through and it's this massive adrenaline rush. And then you crash afterwards. I think you really do crash. And then all the emotions flood in. And I said to her, no one's going to ask you what you got in your results after this day. It's done. It's done. That's out of the way. You're staying on the sixth form. You're going to go and study art. You're going to art college. Hopefully you'll do whatever it is. And then I don't care what you do. I just want you to be happy, really. But it's quite an intense day. It really is. And I look at my family. Because I mean, I don't know what you were like at school. I was below average. You know, I look now and think, hang on, I'm smart. There is a brain in there. I am not academic. I couldn't do maths and sciences. I found writing huge bodies of work really tough. But if you want me to tell you,

the plot of a book or the plot of a film or what happened in 1066, I could tell you, I'm just not very good at writing that down. Everyone's brains are different. Yeah, everyone's brains are different. And now I look at my kids and, you know, Woody's had his ADHD diagnosis. Nell has, we're just sort of finding out her results as well on that because she suddenly got to an age where she was really struggling to write down huge bodies of work. And it was Woody said to me, Mom, this is what I had.

And now I look back and think, well, this is obviously, it was obviously me too. And it does make you wonder sometimes about, and I'm not going to get involved in the education system. And I think teachers do an incredible job. And it must be very, very difficult to teach all kids who have such different skills and such different needs. It must be very difficult. But I do think, looking back now, that it's still the same system as it is for my kids now. And actually our kids, it is changing. And I do hope that the system changes eventually to suit kids to be educated in a way that is much more helpful for them later in life.

My family, I come from, you know, my granddad was an engineer. My grandma worked in a factory. My mum was a postmistress. My dad was an electrician. We weren't brought up on bodies of literature and having any intellectual conversations whatsoever. We were, you know, having a child with special needs and learning disabilities in the family. You're literally coping from one day to the next. So education was something that never ever figured big in our lives whatsoever.

So when it came to me being at school, I really, really struggled. I had extra lessons in logic, in history, in maths, all those things. And I literally could not take anything in. I remember just sitting there with a teacher trying to compute what they were saying to me. And I'm still the same to this day. I just find it really hard to take information. I can see that happening in my children as well. But they are all succeeding in their own way.

And I think the pressure. And I do worry now with social. media because that's what I was aware of with Coco getting her results was all the chat that's going on in all their little chat groups and people posting on social media. It's amazing if you can get nines and if you can get eights and if you do have an incredible success at GCSEs or A levels, then of course shout about it. And if you're a proud parent, of course it's right to be proud about your parents. But it also does put a lot of pressure on those other people who aren't of the same standard,

the same level. You know, we need to celebrate everybody for what their abilities are and what they achieve. Absolutely. Let's talk about our exams because you just said that you were below average. I was so below average. I don't know if I got five GCSEs. I probably did because I had to stay on at school. But I remember my A level results and I was away with my friend and we went to America

and I remember phoning in and I worked really hard and I did have this extra tuition. And then I remember phoning my mum and dad and saying, oh, what did I get? And I got a D, an E and a U in my A levels. Go, girl. And I was like, oh, really? I was really surprised because I worked really hard. But then also I wasn't surprised because I'm just, I'm not clever. I'm not academic in any way, shape or form.

And I'd apply to all these different universities. And I didn't stand a hope in hell in getting in anywhere at all. So every possibility just disappeared. And I remember, you know, my mum was the one who helped me out with this. Just looking through and going, what are you interested in? What could you possibly do? And there was one course that accepted me. It was the only thing.

And I did, I went to Brighton Poly, Polytechnic, couldn't get into any unique. anywhere and I did applied languages because I knew I was interested in communication because of my sister because we'd had to language is a really big thing with francis she didn't speak she wasn't verbal until she was about 12 I don't think so we learned sign language so I'd always been interested in communication and language and so brighton said yes they'd take me on his course and I ended up doing applied language which meant that I was studying phonetics and semantics and syntax all the ways that you actually physically form and understand language and Russian I didn't Russian. I mean, like I said, we've already established I'm not that bright. And I sat there and I studied Russian for three years. I can say la l'alubleu and I can say dosidania, which means I love you goodbye. That's all you need. Isn't it really? My exams are really bad, but they did buy me time to go and have three years in Brighton, which was amazing. Great place for you, yeah. That was it. I mean, I didn't even do very well in my degree. I think I scraped a two-two. I just scraped a two-two. But hey, you got in somewhere. This is incredible. This is incredible. I,

Luckily, my parents were away when my A-level results came in, because I went to convent school, did sort of very, very below average on GCSEs, and then went to art college to do journalism. And then suddenly there were boys. I'd been in an all-girls school. It's like, there's boys, there's music. There's so much to discover. I don't know which tribe I'm in. And so I did absolutely zero work whatsoever. So when my results came in, there were, I think it was D's, E's. E's. and I think there was some kind of view. I got a city and guilds. It was like, where can I go anywhere? I went to city poly. Again, no way I was going to get into university.

And the only thing I could get on was a combined studies course. And I did journalism, geology and computer science. And I, for six weeks had discovered after six weeks that I had been going to completely the wrong lecture for the computer that I was. And I was like, why does I? nothing I'm you're not teaching me anything that's helping me and I was I was learning a completely different system because I was in the wrong class and I was with a load of second year geology students who were fascinating and I loved them they were quite fascinating people and they had all these little they had like collection of hammers so you could go and look at your

artifacts when you went looking for fossils or rocks and stuff like that but I was like what am I doing here see I would never have had you down as a geology or computer science girl but it's all I could do. You know how we've always said there are similarities. I mean, I had no idea until this second what you've got in your results and what kind of what your educational path was, but really, really similar. Just kind of a little bit clueless. I mean, really, not having any guidance and just going, what do I do for the rest of my life? I mean, I don't know about you, but I didn't know what I was going to do at any point. I didn't know what I was going to do until I finished my degree, really. And even when I got to the point when I finished my degree, there were other people who were

going off to be linguists or, you know, work in the field. And I, I just didn't know. All I knew was I liked music. And I had this one lecturer, Mike Ryder, his name was, and I remember going to having a career chat with him. And he said, well, what do you like? And I went, I mean, I just, I just like music. And he went, well, I know there's a radio station. And it was Radio Sussex. He said, and there's a show on a Sunday night. And why don't you just contact them and see if you can go down and get involved with them if you like music that much? And I did. I wrote to Radio Sussex, and they had a show called Turn It Up, which went out on a Sunday night. It was an hour and a half.

And it was people who just love music sitting there for an hour and a half, just playing songs that they liked, interviewing bands who came into the area. And they let me go along and get involved with the show. And it was at that point, going along and watching them do that program, and I was like, yeah, this is it. I just literally felt my heart go ping, just like, these are my people. I never found them at school. I always felt different to everybody else at school. I always felt different to everybody else when I was at Polis. I never felt anyone like who was a kindred spirit.

I had really good friends, but no one who was kind of wanted to do the same kind of thing as me. And just seeing those people making radio, I was like, this can be a job, seriously? Okay, how do I do it? What do I do? What do I need to do to get there? And that was my first moment of thinking and investigating how I could be on the radio. And that's how I ended up doing radio journalism. I went to City University in the end, and I did a year there.

And I actually managed to fail that course as well. So I failed pretty much everything throughout my entire. education. And I failed it because we were doing different kind of elements of the course and you could go out there and you could be a news journalist, you could be a report, you could do documentaries. And all I ever did was sit in the studio and I'd mix records and I'd play records. And that's all I'd do. Every documentary I ever put together, it was all about music. And I was just obsessed with it. I had this arts teacher. He was my lecturer and he was called David Roper. And he worked in the industry. He was already there. He was on TV doing arts,

casting himself. And he was so hardcore. And I used to hand in my documentaries and he'd be like, no, rubbish. No, it's not very, not good enough. And I, and I really, really struggle with deadlines. Like all my life I struggle with deadlines. And I used to miss deadlines constantly. And we got to the end of my course and I actually got some experience at Radio 4 and that's how I began working for the BBC. I was working on something called the Radio 4 generation. I got some research stuff there. So I was working with them and I just missed my deadline. Instead of Dear David Roper, who, by the way, is now one of my best friends who actually was my kind of best man at my wedding.

He just went, and I fail, fail, just wrote a big fail across my course because I missed his deadline. So I never actually did get my postgrad diploma because of David, but he is now one of my best friends. And the reason he was so great is because he taught me like it was a real world. So he was like, if you miss this deadline, your piece ain't going out on the radio. This is not getting printed. And it was the best thing he could ever possibly have done for me.

But that course is how I got into broadcasting because I got a job as a researcher and then one thing leads to another and that's how I got there. I'm really impressed. You did an extra four years in education. It's important that people know that you can fail. It is important people know this stuff because I dropped out of city poly when I realized that I was not a geologist and I had no idea what I was doing with computer science. I had zero interest and even the journalism stuff wasn't really that interesting. And I thought, I just want to work. And eventually got a job. as a runner up in Manchester running in television was you're just the dog's body, you made the tea, but you learn fast. And I worked with so many wonderful people who I still have so much love for because I was so naive. I was not worldly. You know, I'd been to convent school for a long time.

I'd lived in a sleepy little village in Buckinghamshire. I hadn't seen a lot of the world at all and I didn't know a lot about life and suddenly to be in big, wide world. And I remember there'd be quite a few. Oh, sorry, bless her. You know, and they'd all take me under their wing and people would home me and feed me and things like that. But I learnt fast.

And Granada Television, to be a runner at Granada Television, and this was a time when Russell T. Davis was writing Children's Ward. They were making Brideshead revisited. They made all the amazing Sherlock. I would walk down the corridors and I'd see Rita, from Coronation Street. So my nan was like, she's made it. She's seen Rita from Coronation Street. You know, it was a very exciting place to be. And I worked on kids shows and they were made for B, Sky B, and I don't think anyone ever really watched them, but I got to watch me. Sky B.

You do have B Sky B. Yes, of course. There we go. And it was a show presented by Michaela Strachan. She was fantastic on it. And I just watched how they worked. I learned about making television. I learned about all the different roles. And this was always my advice for years when people come to me and say, you know, I want to get into radio. I want to get into television. It was always really easy. You'd say, right, start as a runner. And being an assistant on film or whatever, because you are in there and you can observe all the different roles people have. And you can start to figure out what it is you want to do. Because ultimately, I wanted to be on screen. But I didn't really know that at the time. I sort of knew from what dad did. I thought, I really want to do what he does. I think that's what I want to do. And you

learn so fast. I loved it. But I think it's more difficult these days because television is changing so drastically. And not just in television, in music industry, in all the different industries, a lot of the arts. It's becoming really tough to get into them. Yeah. Because there's no jobs. Yeah, I wrote to Charlie Parsons. I think we've mentioned this before. Yeah. And I sent out a whole bunch of letters, but he replied to me. And I now, I see my kids and they're sending emails to loads of different people, but there are thousands of people sending exact same email. And I, and I, and I'm And so the chances of getting a reply from anybody is so remote. It's really, you have to be unbelievably tenacious.

You have to be lucky as well. I mean, we were lucky, I think, a pair of us. And we were tenacious, but you have to be extra, extra tough and incredibly diligent. It's so hard for them these days. It terrifies me. We're going to take a quick break for some ads. Don't forget, if you're enjoying the podcast, you can become a subscriber to the potting shed. You'll get longer episodes, bonus content and access to our members chat room where we can

share tips. Also, you get early access to those live shows when they happen. But most importantly, you'll be supporting the show. To subscribe, head to digitpod.com.com.uk, or tap the link in the show notes. This episode of Digit is sponsored by Ancient and Brave. Joe, I've added another step to a skincare routine. Can you guess what it is? Are you back doing guasha? It's much easier than that. I've started using Ancient and Braves wild collagen. and it's become a new obsession. Their marine collagen powder is sustainably sourced from MSC-certified wild-caught fish and supports the elasticity and strength of skin, hair, nails, joints and bones.

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Go to ancient and brave.combe.com slash planet and use our code Digit for 20% of your first one-off purchase. That's code Digit at ancient and brave.combe. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. So my daughter's just been off again. It was Amsterdam this time. And you know what it's like? The house is always so quiet when the kids disappear when they're away. Oh, totally. Woody's the same. off on adventures with his mates and I love that for him, but it's strange how quickly the house can go from chaos to total silence. I know. It's also made me think, actually, there must be quite a lot of spare bedrooms out there. I bet there is. And people could

put them to good use by hosting on Airbnb. A lot of people think you have to host your whole place. Well, some people host their spare room now and again. Yeah, I mean, it's really flexible and also it can work to your schedule. You can choose to host when it suits you and pick up a bit of extra money along the way to put towards a trip of your own. I never say no to a trip away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com.com. U.K. slash host. Joe, have you seen the clip of Robbie Williams talking about his kids and phones? I've seen a little bit of it. I think we have a clip we can play out. They don't have phones. They're not going to have phones for as long as humanly possible.

They are at school. Other people have phones. Why can't I have? phones tough. That's as simple as it is. I'm 51. I can't deal with the corrosive nature of the internet and things. It hurts me. It ruins my day. How can I give this drug to a 12 year old? How can I give this drug to a seven year old? It's abuse. Wow. God. He's obviously coming from a place of deep hurt, isn't he? And experience that he's had. himself. I mean, they're strong, strong words. And I can see exactly where he's coming from. I find it quite difficult. I think it's like the genie is out of the bottle because with Coco, I guess I judge everything with Coco, who's 16 now, because all my other kids, they just evolved. Liphones came along

and it just was part of the evolution. You got a phone and that was it. And it's only been with Coco that I've had to think about it a little bit harder and think, well, is it damaging? Is it harmful to her. And I think you have to really weigh up whether it's detrimental if your child to have a phone or to not have a phone, to be the one who isn't like all their friends, who doesn't have a phone, isn't part of the conversation, can't be in all the Snapchat conversations and can't be part of the conversation that's going on amongst them. And I also find myself quite comforting. I mean, find my cocoa or find my cast of my favourite things about my phone that I know where they are. It's really reassuring. So if they go off to a festival, if they go off somewhere,

it's not a tracking device but it's also really useful and I know that they can contact me if they need me at any point if there's any danger or any difficult situation so I can hear where Rob is coming from I do understand and I do worry about the addictive nature of it but also I would not have been able to not give my kids phones it just would not it just couldn't have happened I mean I've had conversations with Coco about it we just could not have done that I don't know what your history has been with your kids and how they're chatting with their friends Well, with Woody, it evolved. They would talk on Club Penguin. It's where it was started. So they'd chat on Club Penguin.

And then it was, they'd chat on Minecraft. And I remember always talking to their older cousins is this, you know, he's really into computer games. You know, gets aggressive when you take it away, da, da, da, da, da. But his older cousin would always be like, ah, don't worry about the computer bit because what's coming beyond is then going to be, you know, parties and booze and da-da-da-da and everything else that goes with it. And the older cousins were right, it did. It was a phase and it went through. But it's how they communicated. And I guess that was Woody Snapchat, Club Penguin.

And, you know, because he just talked to his mates on it. Can I just say, Cass got banned from Club Penguin. Woody was always being banned. He got banned for a month for saying shit. It would always be something involving excrement, some like kind of chat. You know, and it's so cute when you think about it because actually they're just like, yeah, I'm one of the boys. La, la, la, la. But that's how innocent it was.

Isn't that wonderful? And things have come on leaps and bounds. And Woody would always be like, hang on a minute, she's got a phone. I didn't have a phone until this age. And I'm like, yes, darling, but the things have changed. I don't know what age now I've got a phone. I can't honestly remember. No.

I remember suddenly being very aware because I don't understand with Snapchat and all the other platforms, having to ask older friends or friends with kids at age going, how do I check what she's looking at? Woody would check in with me and say, Mom, she's dancing to a video with a very explicit lyrics and that's up and you need to tell her to set that down. And I'd be like, right, thanks, Wu. Can you just check your sister's phone? Can you just? Because I couldn't understand.

So, you know, and there were lots of conversations about you need to be safe. People who say there's certain people are not certain people. Da-da-da-da-da. But it's how they communicate. And I kept thinking, should I get Snapchat? Should I get it so that I can keep an eye? I was firmly told by both of my children. children. And a lot of the young people I work with, no, Zoe, you will not get Snapchat. So it was

quite frightening trying to keep her safe on these platforms when you don't know what's in there and what's going on. I think you view it as an opportunity to have those conversations with your kids and also to build up trust. You know, I think 15 or 16 year old child is quite defensive at the best of times. The option of having a look at their phone, I mean, it's not an option. I don't know what nails like, but I just could not. No, it would be a real invasion of privacy to be honest with you. So my only option you have is to have a conversation, just say look, you know

that there are dangers, you know that there is online bullying, you know that you shouldn't have these conversations, you shouldn't be mean to people, you have to not take photographs of your body. And I think that's really healthy to have that chat, have that conversation. I think I'm really lucky because I've got older children as well who like you

with Woody. We've all worked together, I think, to make sure the phones are not being abused within our family and have not been dangerous to Coco. But it's it's a mind-filled. Kind of learn as you go along, right? Yeah, you're just trying to keep me safe. I have to say full respect to the school as well

because the school did a lot of really good work on social media with the kids about these things are not acceptable and these things, you know, you will be suspended or expelled if any of these things happen. So they taught the kids quite young. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, thank goodness for them. Also, if I've ever given my kids a hard time about being on their phones too much,

I will hear much. mom put your phone down you are such a hypocrite because I'm such a hypocrite because there I am doom scrolling because it's it's sort of a hobby it's sort of you know it's how I calm down I'm like oh I'm looking at you know menopause products I'm looking at supplements do I need these trousers the other thing I do it really annoys me when Nell will have a laptop on a phone on and a television it's like too many things there's too many noises one thing and then I'll be watching a film I get my phone to look up who in the film and who made the film and where it was made and da-da-da-da and the kids like they just pause the film get off your phone off you. I think I get it more in the neck than any of the

kids do. They give me such a hard time about it all completely. You know if I start to get worried about things or paranoid or you know oh I don't like the way I look well stop looking at people other people on Instagram stop checking yourself. Stop doing this. They're really really you know if I get worried or someone said something that wasn't very nice why are you reading it mum? Why are you doing that? Just delete it. Just block them or whatever I learn so much more from my kids than I think I teach them. I really do. They're just,

they're so wise and smart and, yeah, much more savvy than we are in any way, shape or form. You're so right. When did that point happen where suddenly it's like, I'm not teaching you. You are now educating me.

Probably dangerously young. But I'm so grateful that they teach me about, because their world is so very different to our world. And that is ever changing. You know, the language they use, they're really good at saying to me, well, mom, you might say it like that, but you could say it like this. And this is why someone might say this, mum, and not that. And because often I'm like, wow, I think you're making a big fuss about that thing. And they're like, no, actually, mum, we're not.

Yeah, I am so grateful. So that's what you want, isn't it? You kind of want a relationship with your kids where you can build trust so you know that they can have their privacy. But there's a line. And it's like trying to teach them the line not to cross. And, you know, and it'll be interesting this year, I think. when Nell's studying of is the phone physically removed sometimes? Because also it's like...

Keep me informed with that. If you manage to do that, I'll be so impressed. Music is in there. The stuff you're, it's like, well, like, you can't take that right. Don't take it away. Don't take it away. Don't take it away. So one of the joys of coming back from a holiday and also I think one that comes with great trepidition, if you're into your gardens, is what's it going to look like when

you come back? And also because we've had like the driest, hottest summer, so coming back to the garden, we got back. Oh my hydrangeers, Zoe, they're gone. So sad, isn't it? But you leave them and they're all billowy and beautiful. When you get back in, they are brown and sad and hanging over and I, yeah, I have a terrible hydrangee guilt. Yeah, I think this summer in particular, I mean, yesterday I went over to my mum's and I was driving there and feeling sick. We've also got loads of copper birch hedging, which I had planted in the summer and that's just hardly any of that survived. And because you can't water and it's just really difficult and I've just watched everything get crispy and crispy and I got by from holiday

so that's not doing very well and then every part of the border where the hydrangeas were there's just these like scorched bushes there and then I went over to my mum's and I was looking at all the trees and the conca trees like the conca seemed to be coming out really quickly but there's so many dead trees along the way along the country lanes and that made me feel better about my own garden because it's happened for all of us like everywhere it's been so incredibly difficult on a lot of the plants yeah just too stressful Yeah, I was reading about it. It's the plants have been caused stress by the drought. And apparently there's like the branch dropping numbers are up because plants will drop their branches, which can be quite dangerous as well,

drop their branches to save energy because they haven't got enough water coming through. And it really struck me, you know, like Black Breeze came really early this year. I think there was a recording of Black Breeze coming in June at some point. But I know it has been, I think it's been a record drought, hasn't it? I think there's drought in at least three. counties and I've got friends who live down in the countryside and they were talking you know we worry about our gardens I think it's actually a much more serious situation for farmers because all the fields where they're growing the crops to feed the animals those crops are failing so they've got nothing

to feed the animals they're having to sell their animals you know that they you know that's they farm with those animals so it's it's quite a serious situation and it does make you wonder you know and we talk about how we plant and what we plant how we plant how our climate is changing so drastically. And I'm looking at the weather app. I am obsessed. This morning I went outside and there'd been four drops of rain. I was really excited. Because also I feel like the weather keeps being wrong at the moment. Of course. Yeah. And it's scary, isn't it? So I look this morning. I'm like, right, tomorrow, apparently 40% chance. Then is 45% chance. I'm like, this is not enough percentage for me to guarantee that it's going to be rain because this,

we need it. You know, the British Charles needs rain at the moment. So, forget the gardens. It's like the farmers need the rain. My friend Caroline used to do a thing where she'd put on yellow pants. Oh no, that was sun. That's the opposite. This has taken a really weird turn. Tell me now. Sorry, I'm really weird. Weird things with dance going on in your friends and family. My lovely friend, Kazel, we'd all have to wear yellow pants to do a sun dance before festivals or weddings. It's the opposite. Caroline, I'll ring out. Blue? What colour pants do we wear if we want to do a rain dance? So supposedly storms and rain coming this week. We've got a really beautiful garden here now that we can have a look at and also a voice note. Let's hear from Charlotte.

I particularly wanted to leave a note about the gardening piece that you did and how much gardening is good for your mental well-being. With the menopoles, I've been getting a lot of its anxiety and also it's a strange time in my life where the children are leaving home. It's a bit challenging at times. But where we live from, we've got a tiny town garden which we've made from scratch and I have to say it's been my absolute sanctuary. I've completely beefed it up this year with lots of evergreens and pleached evergreens because it had a bit of privacy issue and loads of dahlias and roses and flowers and we've built a pond and I feel so incredibly happy sitting out there with my coffee and feel my mind just settle down into this calm space. I think it's completely

changed to my life having this garden. Thank you. Carry on what you're doing. I love it. Oh, Charlotte. Having a project helps in those times. When the kids go or when you're facing a real challenge just to like manifest something to build it physically, to exhaust yourself and then to see the creation, then to sit there and enjoy what you've made. Charlotte, you've done so well. It's a really beautiful garden. I'm really glad that it's made you feel happy again. Charlotte, the toughest thing of the menopause for me was the anxiety. that was the thing that happened for me.

It was worse than the flushes. I gained quite a lot of weight as well, but it was the anxiety. And I just didn't know what was wrong with me. But the garden did help. That was your medicine. The garden did. HRT, a bit of time and understanding and the garden. And just trying to just take time for yourself sometimes just to breathe.

I was reading a thing yesterday that apparently two deep breaths and then a long, deep breath out is just really good for settling. Yeah, anxiety is a real tough, tough thing. It is. And there are sometimes when it's okay and then other times, and I've really noticed that my family react

and I always think, why are they all looking at me? Because they got so used to my anxiety breathing. Sometimes when I get really anxious, obviously my breathing changes. And they know I'm having a little panic and often they'll look and someone will be like,

you're right, my, oh yeah yeah I'm fine just getting my breath just getting my breath but they're aware though yeah they're really aware and it I worry about it because I don't want them to worry but I'm like oh I don't even know I'm doing it I get really anxious on holidays having just had two weeks holidays and we went for the first week with the whole gang so there were nine of us as I've mentioned before but then it reduced down to the three of us to me Steve and Coco and in the days leading up to everybody leaving oh my God I just felt so

out of sorts and you try and manage it you're trying to be like no we're on holiday all having a really great time. This is so much fun. And then there's that little voice in the back of your head going, but it's going to end soon, it's going to end soon, it's going to end soon. And then it does end. And, you know, my natural inclination is to cry and get really tearful. And then you're like, oh God, I don't want people to see that I'm upset. And you try and mask it, you try and hide it. And then eventually it just builds up and you just like, well, it all comes out. And then the days after when everyone had left, and it was just the three of us, there's this kind of like juggling around. And again, the anxiety, I just want everyone to be happy all the time. And so I'll

I'm like, is Cocoa happy? It's Steve happy? How is everybody else when they're back home? And all these messages are flying around on WhatsApp, everyone going, oh, this is rubbish. We're not all together anymore. But there's just constantly in life, I think, you're in different situations. And it throws you. It really, really throws you. And that's when I could have done with my garden, Charlotte, I could have done with my garden to retreat to just to have a couple of hours of mindfulness. And I know that if I'm left to my own devices, I can sort it all out in my head. It's only when I've got other people around me. I think it becomes apparent that I'm really anxious. Crate digging time, Joe, I'm thinking I know what that album is. I've been very excited about this album coming out.

It's great. It's a goodie, isn't it? It's from Wolf Alice, and it's called The Clearing. And this is a band who've been around for quite a long time, and they've just evolved into some other extraordinary being. This extraordinary band now, this record is so beautiful. Ella's voice is like something else. She's transcended and become a different creature.

and the whole band are playing really well together. The production is amazing. The songs are really varied and it's been lovely to see the evolution. They've just in a different class to what they were before and a different class to a lot of other musicians out there at the moment. And they look fantastic. They look like they've got this incredible confidence and they're really happy.

So I would recommend Wall Fallis the Clearing as one of the albums of the year. Hopefully it will be a contender for the Mercury Prize when that eventually comes out because I think it deserves to be. I love the way Ellie has kind of got such a strong image going on. She reminds me of PJ Harvey a little bit. When a woman grows up and thinks about how the way they want to present themselves and wants to present something really strong and really sexy and be a proper rock star and I think that is what she's doing and she looks amazing. And she's so nice. Like she's really got this lovely confidence that's come through now. I'm just so happy for them. Really happy. So what have you got behind you? Where shall I go? Left, right, higher, lower. Go behind the ivy. Is that ivy? Behind the ivy. Right. What have you got? Oh, hang on. I've done it again. I've pulled out too. But the front one is Julian Lennon.

We were talking about Julian Cope last week, weren't we? And I, what did I, I remember getting this for, oh God, what is it, too late for goodbyes. This is from 1984, lovely Julian Lennon there. But I've also, at the same time, pulled out Kid Creole and the Coconut's Picture Disc. Yes. I mean, this is how eclectic my record,

it can be brilliant. can be here we go stool pigeon hatchetcha Annie I'm not your daddy and I'm a one of a thing baby they are actually playing um a certain radio festival aren't they at the weekend we'll be not this weekend the weekend after where Joe and I will be so we can see them in person and I have a funny feeling that one of my mates mates is a coconut I will report back to you on that but look that's classy isn't it's a wonderful thing is a great great I'm not your daddy. I've never, I'm questionable. But you know, it's quite questionable. It's quite a questionable. Yeah, there's certain lyrics that don't date well. No, no.

Yeah. We took for granted at the time and then you're like, hang on a minute. Hang on a minute. Can we be thinking that now? Possibly not. No, but I do know all the words though. I tell you. There you go. The eclectic mix. I feel like I haven't been completely honest with what's going on in my life, but I can't, um, I just can't talk about it. Oh, darling. Sorry, I thought I should do it, but I don't think I can. Oh, no. We had a horrible thing happen yesterday.

And, God, it's really hard to talk about, but I should do because I think it's actually relatively common. But we came back from holiday, and I went, all the kids are out doing various different things. I went to my mum and dad, and I got a call from Steve in a complete panic. And he had come home, and he, it sounds ridiculous to say, but he, he sounds ridiculous to say, He'd ran our cat over and they're really sad. No, darling. Oh, God, poor Steve. That's awful.

I know. It's really awful. So, whereas once we were a family with four pets, we now have three. Oh, sweetheart. It was Simba, a cat, who was the old lady of the family. And I think we've showed pictures of her before, and I've talked about her before. She was the Bengal. In fact, we did.

She was on the other day. She was our Bengal. and she was about 14 years old and she was really noisy and really really hungry all the time so she was a very, very fierce presence yeah, yeah. I'd ordered so much cat food

that arrived yesterday morning ironically that he drove into the driveway and she was lying because it's so hot outside the animals have just been lazing around on the gravel and she was laying there and he literally drove in really slowly he said and he got out of the car

and went to move her out of the way moved her, physically moved her thought that she'd gone and then drove the car in and she hadn't. I don't know whether, I don't, we just cannot work out what on earth happened. And he's obviously absolutely destroyed. He, yeah, yeah, because in those evenings when he's at home and I'm at work and he's always said, oh, she's my girlfriend and she used to come and she, we joke about she was the only person whose lap he'd sit on. She wouldn't sit on anyone else's

lap, she'd just go to him. So he's in a world of pain. We had to spend the whole day yesterday because none of the kids were at home. Thank God when it happened. He had to deal with that with our lovely friend, Andrew, the vet who came along and, put her out of her misery. And then we just had to wait and just tell the kids. And that's the worst thing in the world. Having to work out the words to say, knowing, like going to pick up Coco, she's had an amazing day with her friends, knowing you've got this awful news that you've got to tell

her to make everything come crushing down and doing that. And then Cass, who loves animals so much. So it's been horrid. Oh, God. Do you want? I don't believe you. It's another day. It might have been so, so gorgeous this morning and professional would never have known

anything has happened. I thought I could do it. And then I went outside and Coco was just sobbing. And I just thought it was important because this is all about reflecting our lives and it's not all happy, sunny, smiley stuff. Real things happen. And that was yesterday.

Oh, it's freaking devastating, Lizzie. And like you say, there's no easy way to tell the kids they're going to be devastated. Yeah. India's on holiday. Do I tell her why she's on holiday? And ultimately we did. And then you're like, Oh, was that the right thing to do? I don't know.

Oh, bless your big hugs around. Thank you. And especially for disco, Steve. I hope he's all right. And goodness. He's okay. I mean, I testament to my kids that they were upset about Simba, but they were more worried about death. Yeah.

Give you. There's only loads of love. Okay. Love you. Digit is a Persephonicah production.