Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Holly Willoughby & Ariana: Why Do We Judge Women So Quickly?

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

Jo opens up about planning her dad's funeral and navigating grief, plus they discuss Ariana Grande, Holly Willoughby and Claudia Winkleman, and why the public is so quick to tear women down.Content warning: This episode contains discussion of death and bereavementLISTING ON SPOTIFY? VOTE FOR US!We’ve been nominated in the Listeners’ Choice category and we’d love all our diggers to vote for us! If you’re on your mobile - click here - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DX74ZgzrlyH29?si=gQnhQXxwRp6raOwn5libsQ&utm_source=whatsapp&pi=Ch3Ra0dWQ7GYW GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by Panda London, Costa Coffee and L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm.🐼 Panda London — Make hot nights more comfortable with Panda London’s beautifully soft, breathable and thermoregulating bamboo bedding. Head to pandalondon.com and spend over £50 to receive a free Bamboo Eye Mask with your order using code DIGIT.☕ Costa Coffee at Home — Start your morning with the same great Costa taste you know and love, now in your own mug at home. Costa's new Everyday Instant Coffee is inspired by their iconic Mocha Italia blend and comes in three varieties: Smooth, Intense and Decaf. Available in selected large format supermarkets across the UK, subject to availability.💄L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm - Ready for a new era of foundation? Discover your perfect shade of the New L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm online or at your nearest Boots or Superdrug counter.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanProducer: Harriet Thurley & Samantha PsykAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Cameron Laird, Alex Bell and Jack Whiteside Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Coming up on Dig It's no good saying, oh, give women a platform, give them all the opportunities and then tear them down straight away. That is not the point. You are missing the point here. Everywhere I've been, people have been kind. Oh, I'm going to go already. It's okay. It's okay. It's stupid. It's not stupid, darling. The thing is, I know, Claude gets really nervous. You look at her and think, of course, she's really, really confident. She's told me a couple of times how nerve-wracking she finds it. hosting strictly. All of that, right off to this. Hello, Diggers. Welcome to Digget and welcome back, Joe. Lovely friend, we have missed you. Just want to say we have had so many messages of support

from our wonderful Digit community. And I thought we'd start by reading you this message from Natalie. Just a little example of the love coming your way. Just wanted to send all my love to Joe and her family. Thank you so much talking about your dad. End of life care for those we love still isn't talked about as much as it should be. Joe's kindness in sharing helps us all. And that is just one of so many messages. So thank you Diggers for your incredible empathy and support. And Joe, my lovely friend, it's so good to see you. How are you, darling, girl? I'm all right. I'm good. I'm holding it together, I think. Yeah, thank you. Everybody is, I mean, Zoe, you've been through this before, so you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

but it's a weird time of our lives, isn't it? And when something like this happens, it's stuff that you've never dealt with before, and it's a massive learning curve. And I just want to say thank you to everybody who's been so unbelievably kind on so many different levels. So whether it's, I had to do a gig. Like Dad died on the Tuesday morning.

Gosh, you lose sense of time as well. On the Tuesday morning, I had a gig on Friday. And it was at Melbourne Hall. And it was a 90s anthem show. And so I, I didn't even think about canceling it because it was a job that I had to do. And my dad was always about making people happy. So my first thought was I don't want to let people down.

So I've got to go out there and I've got to make people happy. You know, honour is his wishes. That's exactly what he was all about. So I needed to get out there and I needed to do the show. But when I walked out on stage, it was actually quite overwhelming. It's strange. When you go back to work, you feel quite vulnerable. You feel quite small.

And all you want to do is be in a room on your own, not talking to anybody. So you feel a little bit fragile. And walking out onto a stage is like, like, whoa. But the crowd were amazing, and they were so lovely. And I didn't think that they knew what had happened to me, so that wasn't part of it, except there was one person in the audience, and she had a sign, and it said, number one digger.

And she was at the back of the crowd to start off with, and I clocked her, and I kind of waved and blew her a kiss. And then she worked her way all the way down through the gig until by the end, she was right at the very front, and she held this sign up the whole way. And it was amazingly comforting. It was just such a sweet thing to do. And it was, I really focused on it and I really fixed on that and it helped me a lot.

And then afterwards, when I posted a photograph of the show, I had so many comments from people saying, we were there in the crowd and we were, we were rooting for you. And we were sending all our love and support. And thank you for turning up and doing the show. So thank you to all the people who were there. And I had no idea that you knew what had been going on and I'm really grateful. But everywhere I've been, people have been kind. Oh, I'm going to go already.

It's okay. It's okay. It's stupid. It's not stupid, darling. It's huge. Do you know what the funniest thing is? So the day after Dad died, I went to, into town and we live in a little, you know, a small town. And I just thought, I'm not going to know eye contact.

No one all know what's going on. And for some reason, I thought they wouldn't know. And I went to my local supermarket. And I bought my stuff that I needed to get and I was checking out. And I was just about to pay and I got a tap on my shoulder. And it was one of the women who works there. And she got this massive bouquet of Agapanthus. And she went, oh, this is for your dad.

Because, you know, everyone knows him where we live. He was a legend. And I was like, oh, no, thank you so much. And it meant the world that everywhere I went, there were people I went to the dentist. And they came in and said, on behalf of the practice, we want to send our condolences. And it's so nice.

People are just acknowledging what's going on and being kind and respectful. That respect. means the world and also what has really, really helped and I think has been comforting for me and for mum and for Francis and for my kids. And the memories, people have sent so many cards. And the comments on Instagram and Facebook everywhere, people just sharing their stories and how they remember my dad and their encounters. And I bet you've got that with your mum, Zoe. Just knowing what he meant to so many people to people that I went to school with when we were like

7, 8, 9, their memories of my dad then. And they're, They all just say how much they loved him. He was an absolute joker. I mean, he just, he lived to make people laugh. He lived to make people happy. He lived to be kind to people and make their lives better. And they've all got stories about how he'd wind down the window and a joke with them about this, that or the other memories of the moms at my kids' school gates.

Someone said, we had so many hysterical moments at the school gates. And he made those years a pleasure. We all look forward to seeing Martin at the school gates. And I was like, oh my God. And I think they were the happiest times of his life as well. He just loved laughing. He loved making people laugh. And to know that he had that impact on other people, what an amazing legacy, you know.

It's quite incredible, isn't it? And isn't it sad that you kind of like, I always, it's like with my mum and like you, with your dad, you know how amazing they are and you know how wonderful they are. And you know they've had this incredible effect. But it's only sort of after that you just realize the. enormity of their being and how wonderful they were not just to you and your family, but all these other people around. The ripple effect. It does give the ripple effect.

Yeah. And I tell you what, it does give you joy and strength. And it does make you sort of smile with your whole heart to know, but they were so loved by everyone. It's quite just to see how far that love spread. how much joy they gave to other people as well as you and your family. He would have had no idea, you know, absolutely no idea. His self-esteem was quite small and that's, I think, why he put on this front all the time,

wanted to make people joke and laugh. There wasn't a lot of joy in laughter in his life when he was younger. And he had, you know, I've said before that his family were tiny and he felt very abandoned. So the fact that he's then gone on to make so many other people's lives richer and happier and full of laughter and full of jokes is a wonderful thing. And I hope to God he knows somehow. Oh, he will. He knows. And that wonderful love and energy of them stays with you.

I wanted to say that I went to latitude. And it's extraordinary. Just going to festivals, you feel quite guilty going away and having fun. But actually it's quite a release to go and dance and sing. And the kids needed to get away. And you don't really know what to do with yourself when someone's gone for those, the in-between days we've taught. Zoe, you've sent me lovely messages about the in-between days before the funeral. And you don't know what to do with yourself.

And that's what these people at the festivals, they were like, I just thought we might as well come along because why not. And that's, you know, life carries on. So you do have to carry on enjoying yourself. But also funerals, Blimey Zoe, there is so much to do. Oh, my God. It's so much. Our fantastic, I think he's an exec producer. Jonathan. Jonathan called it Sadmin. There is so much sadmin. The stuff that you've got to do to organise funerals, it's, and having someone kind of guide you or tell you, because you're like, oh, God, I don't even know. Where do you even begin? All the pieces of paper and all the things like choosing music and getting photographs and who's going to speak and where is it going to be and stuff. How's it all going with this, this has been my life?

This has been my life for the last week. And you're suddenly hit with the realization, oh, I'm a grown-up now. This is grown-up stuff that I've got to do, so I've got to go and get the death certificate. And we need to decide on the music. We have to go to a funeral directors. I've never been to a funeral directors before.

In my head, they were gloomy, dark, scary places that I never, you know, gave me the hebi-jee-jeebiz. The reality, they are the loveliest, kindest people who are just so welcoming. And you cling on to it. every word of advice because they know what they're doing. They're the professionals. The vicar, the canon, Andrea, who's helping us through meeting up with her with my mum and talking through everything. You just take their advice and you are so grateful for everything they've got to share

with you and they guide you through putting the order of service together and all the things that you need to do. So we're getting there, but trying to find a decent photograph of my dad where he's not pulling a face or not hugging someone or being gripped by somebody or in fancy dress. It's impossible. It's been driving us mad trying to get the right photograph. So that's been the biggest challenge in trying to agree on it. My poor mum is bombarded with love. That's what she's having at the moment. She's having a love bombardment. So there are people calling by dropping off cake food, flowers, cards, sympathy, love. And for her to try and navigate this, we're just doing it together. We're just trying to put everything together. Try to find music, deciding on

all that kind of stuff. That's really hard. It is really tricky. It's like capturing the spirit and giving everyone a chance to cry. Yeah. I think is key. You need that chance to have those, think about the memories and have a cry at a funeral. I think it's giving everyone that time to cry. I think he's really important. That's what the vicar was saying.

She was saying in other cultures, they are much more free with their emotions, whereas the British tend to be much more stiff up a lip and try and contain everything. And actually, you've lost your dad, your granddad, your husband. So it's fine to express that with the emotion, which I'm sure we'll do. The funeral is this coming Friday. So I feel like that's looming large at the moment, you know, just trying to just cope with that and decide on speaking. I feel under such pressure to speak because because he was my dad, because I'm a broadcaster, because I want to lead by example. My mum's not going to speak.

The children all want to speak. But at the same time, I don't know whether I'm going to be able to do that. I've talked before about my amazing ability to cry. So it's like, oh God, should I make myself do this? Should I not make myself do this? I don't know what other diggers have done what your experiences have been. I'd be so interested to know. Yeah, what are your experiences?

It's a really, really difficult one to navigate. Did you? I did speak at mums, but it was, I have to say, I did it next to my brother, which was great. So if you do speak, I'd have Steve next to you. Yeah, I will. But do you know who I had, my mum's amazing friends, Derek and Krillard. spoke so from the heart and they were both amazing and they

were so moving and they really captured these great stories about my mum but the stars really were Woody and Nell they spoke and I mean that made me I was so proud of them both because they spoke so eloquently

and straight from the heart and I think she would have been so proud of them and I realise that actually they really were the special ones. And also when they've been poorly, like with your mum being poorly and my dad being so poorly and not himself for quite a long time, it's hard to then put yourself back to the memories of the good times and the person they were and talk about that when the most recent memories you have is of them not being themselves and of being ill. And it's,

it's a massive head fuck is what it is. I'm just going to say that. Exactly what it is. It's a massive head fuck because you're like, oh my God, there was that version of dad. It's that version of dad. and how do I convey all of this? I keep thinking of you and I don't know, and like all our diggers as well, I think just knowing you have Steve and your kids and you're such a beautiful, strong family and that you can be there for your mum,

and I know you're saying your mum's being really strong and stoic. Very much. But you know what? I think of her, because there will come a point when it will be really hard for her. And I think it's that thing, isn't it, a certain generation as well going through this bit. It's just such a strange time.

It really is. And yeah, just my heart totally goes out to all of you. Thank you so much. You've been so amazing. No, you've been, honestly, I'm so grateful for your empathy and your love constantly just checking in with me as lots and lots of my other friends have done. But I know the star of the funeral is absolutely without a doubt going to be my sister. So Francis, I know we'll have something to say. There will be no stopping her.

Like we're, the funerals at the church where we got married and when we got married, she literally pushed past between Steve and I and just went sat right in front of us between the vicar. and us when we got married and did have vows. And I'm fairly confident she's probably going to do the same. And when people start talking about Dad, she'll want to talk about, you know, I love my dad. That's all it will take. But she'll be the star

of the show, I'm sure. Well, listen, we hold you in our hearts. Thank you. And we'll be thinking about you and your amazing dad. Martin Wiley, the legend, the absolute legend that he is and always has been. What an absolute cracker of a chap.

He sounds so amazing and I hope that love just keeps coming your way and we'll be thinking of you holding your tighter hearts. Thanks so. If you're enjoying Digit, don't forget to hit follow or subscribe. And we'd love to hear what you think of the podcast. To be it with a chance of winning £100 worth of Digit merchandise, it's really cool. Simply fill in our audience survey.

You'll find the link in the show notes, pinned on our Instagram and on our substack. We would love to hear from you. Joe, I don't know if you've seen the news that Ariana Grande has decided to step back from public life for a little bit after her tour finishes. She's on tour at the moment. There's been some amazing footage of her on tour. And she was going to be starring in Sunday in the Park with George in London. At the Barbecue next year with the wonderful Jonathan Bailey, who she starred in Wicked with. And there had been some chat about whether that was going to have. happen or not. And she's, her people have put out of the statement this week, weekend, just saying that she is actually going to step back at the end of her tour. Because she has been under so much public scrutiny. Yeah. And it's, it kind of, it just sort of makes you hold your heart for her a little bit. Because if you think, you know, she started so young, didn't she? Yeah. And she had that terrible loss up at her concert in Manchester.

Of course, of course. People forget that. You know, which was just for the audience and the families of those who were lost and for her to recover from. And it was one of those things at that time thinking, well, she'd be able to come back from this. And it shows how strong humans can be. But I guess since she did the wicked tour, her and Cynthia Arevo, I mean, they were just in the papers every single day. And people were like, you know, putting them apart and what's everything. relationship really like and stuff like this. And then recently there's been a lot of comment on her appearance because, you know, people are saying she's very, very tiny. And so, of course,

everyone has an opinion on that. And, you know, there's been comparisons to other people before. And a lot of that is laid at her door. And you just cannot imagine. I mean, we're in the public eye not on there nowhere near that level. And, you know, we talk about it quite a lot. On the pod, don't mean the scrutiny that people can be under in the public eye, you know, especially women. And I'm really not surprised she's taking this step back. No. What is it about human nature? Because, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that I haven't looked at pictures of Ariana and sort and kind of uncommitted and said, oh, I hope she's okay.

She is tiny. And been fascinated by that whole tour that she did with Cynthia Evo, the promotional tour. I think everybody looked at everything that was going on and speculated. I think we're all guilty but there is this endless fascination that we have with people and it's really unpleasant is an unpleasant facet of human nature

it's like public voyeurism isn't it? It's terrible really and it's so distasteful it's really awful it is so distasteful and you can't really give anyone else a hard time about doing it because we're all guilty of it you're absolutely right yeah but when anybody does anything like with Claudia doing her chat show

and the intense amount of scrutiny that she had to go through for the very first show everyone's just like, is it going to be any good is it going to bomb? Is it going to be?

Is it going to be a success? We're going to like it, we're going to hate it. And there is this kind of, yeah, this frenzied attack. As soon as somebody does something, people just want to pull it apart. How often do people do things

and everyone goes, hooray, it's amazing. That was wonderful. People just seem to want to find fault and stuff. So the fact that Claudia came out and she just went, do you know what, I did that.

I didn't feel comfortable with it. I was really nervous. I don't want to do that again. I applaud that so much. Yeah, good on her for just going, didn't work, not doing it anymore. I think that is wonderfully refreshing. Thank goodness for her. It is wonderfully refreshing.

The only thing that makes me a little bit sad, because I know Claude gets really nervous. And you would never believe it because she's so fantastic. I feel like she is so unique. Absolutely. That girl, she is hilarious. She's so talented. And she makes it look so easy.

And I know she's told me a couple of times, how nerve-wracking she finds it, you know, hosting strictly. You know, and you're seeing how brilliant traders is. So you look at her and think, of course, she's really, really confident. The only thing that breaks my heart a little bit there is Graham Norton wasn't amazing when he started out. That took years. You hone your craft. You're given a chance.

But of course, Graham started before social media. And Alan Carr, again, brilliant chat show, Jonathan Ross. If you watch the very early Jonathan Ross shows, you know, he was given a chance to bed in. And the only thing that makes me sad about the Claude thing is that the scrutiny, I wonder whether if it hadn't been so bad, whether she would have carried on, or whether it was just the nerves. And she thought, actually, I don't really want to do this.

But surely we should give people a little bit more time. Absolutely. I think that's the problem, isn't it? Everyone's an armchair critic now. And so there's that instant, you know, it's a bit like Waldorf and Stattler in the Muppet show. You know, it's like that instant. kind of boo hiss or hooray. And I wish everyone had backed off a bit and just given her a chance, you know,

because I reckon another series, they take a while these things. Exactly. Yeah. You work out, you do a new show when you have to work out what features work, what doesn't work. And then you go, all right, next series, we won't do that because that obviously, it just didn't work. And you don't know until you've tried something.

And then you adjust and then you make it great. So no, you're absolutely right. If there wasn't the scrutiny, then maybe she would have felt, confident enough to do it. And it would have been great. There is no doubt within my mind that she would not have been a great chat show host. She's, as you say, so funny, so witty. And she can easily do a chat show. And she's such a people person as well, you know, and her responses to people. But again, great for her to say, ah, I don't need this. I don't need this. I've got traitors. I've got the loving piano show. You know, she's got all sorts going on. And she's a mum and

she's owned it and gone, do you know what? No, thank you very much. I'm not going to do that. I'm seeing the same for Holly Willoughby at the moment as well. Holly's come back, you know, with her own show on YouTube. Tell me about it because I've been in a bubble and I haven't really, I'm not aware of much that's going on. She's owning her own show. She's doing it on YouTube, which I, you know, loads of people do now. You know, you don't necessarily need a channel. A lot of the channels I haven't got any money to make shows these days. I know there's cutbacks on all channels left right and centre. I mean, they're not going to make celebrity mastermind anymore. What? I wonder if they've run out of celebrities. But they obviously didn't ask us, did they?

No, they didn't ask us. I don't know what most, what would your specialist subject be? Doctor Who? What would yours be? Fantastic. Mine would be, could I do it just on Greece too? I think mine would be on yacht rock. Yacht rock. Definitely Yacht Rock. I don't think I'd ever do it. I'd be too scared. Oh, God, no. But so I know that there are channels cutting back, left right. right and centre, there's not a lot of money in certain sort of fields, light entertainment. You know, there's less and less light entertainment shows. So, you know, Holly's owned it here. She's doing her own thing on YouTube. And oh my goodness. There's a lot of positivity, can I just say, for Holly.

And she again has been through a lot, you know. I mean, she had that terrible situation with that guy who was threatening to kill her. Oh, my God. Yeah. Imagine living through that. Yeah. How terrifying that would have been for her. But she's built up her confidence and her strength. and she spent lots of time with her family and she's coming back and she's doing the show on YouTube and all I read is the horrible negativity about it all. It's like, oh, it's only had 41,000 views. I'm like, that sounds pretty good. It's a new show. Give her a chance. Yeah. She's doing this on her terms. You know, she's doing what she enjoys. She's chatting to great people. I've seen some clips with her and Catherine Ryan being hilarious. Her and Stanley Tucci. So, you know,

give her a chance, people. People are so mean. So mean because she was the golden girl for so long. She was, you know, the nation's sweetheart. Absolutely everybody loved her and she could do no wrong. And then just one tiny thing. And then it's like, right, she's next. And they just take her down and don't give her a chance. And that is really cruel, really harsh.

And to be that person in that situation, how hard must that be to get up every day and just think, right, where do I go from here? How do I pick myself up? How do I move forward? How do I live out the rest of my life and have a great career? So, yeah, the strength that she's shown is remarkable. And I know lots of people will watch it and do love Holly and will really enjoy it. Yeah, it's no good saying, give women a platform, give them all the opportunities and then tear them down straight away. That is not the point.

You are missing the point here. Support them. Let nurture them. Let them thrive. Let them, you know, fail a little bit and then succeed brilliantly. Be proud of them. Yes, exactly. Anyway, Claude, we love you. And Holly, yeah, both of you.

Keep being brilliant, being the brilliant, brave. women that you are and taking those chances. Welcome back. So this week, one thing that I have been doing is coming out and when I've had a little bit of time is going out into the garden and... Good therapy. Good therapy. Weeping a little bit at the death in the garden as well as at home, obviously. Sorry, Doc Humor. Because there's everything... Gallo humour. It gets you through, Joe. Everything's struggling with the lack of water. But also the things that are thriving are bringing such joy. So I'm cutting the

flowers, I'm bringing me into the house. We've got Michael, Michael Griffith, who's one of our regulars on the show, and he's here to tell us about. This is something I have never, ever understood. It's a phrase that I've seen, and I'm like, I don't know quite what this means. So semi-hardwood rose cuttings cuttings cutings. Michael, take it away. Hey, Joe and Zoe, did you know if you're not taking rose cuttings cuttings' windows right now, you're missing the best window of the whole year, the cutting sweet spot, the semi-ripe stage? Soft enough to root quickly and firm enough not to rot before it does. Starting at the top we have the really bendy softwood. We don't want that. As I move down I get a piece that's not rock hard but nowhere near is bending.

Now I find my semi, I'm going to cut on an angle above a bud. I'm going to move down 4 to 6 inches and make another cut at a 90 degree angle below a bud so I'll always know which is the top and bottom. Make a 50-50 mix of compost and grit and take all the leaves off the cutting, sparing just the two at the top and cutting those in half. Place them around the edge of the pot, give them a spray with water and cover them with a see-through plastic bag to maintain humidity. This is great.

So you can get roses from your roses effectively. And you can gift roses from your beautiful roses to other people, which is actually a lovely idea for a gift. You see, now I've got an, is it an Olivia rose? Yeah, David Austin Rose. Olivia's beautiful, isn't it? It is so beautiful and it just keeps giving roses and roses and roses. And I was thinking I might get another one.

because there's a couple of gaps and there's not many gaps, but the roses seem to do okay. They seem to be coping with the weather. And there's so many plants in my garden that will have to go like the hydrangees. They're just not going to survive. But I was thinking, you know, maybe I should do that with my roses, save to your fortune. Yeah.

So I'm going to try this. That's something I've never ever thought about. Like I said, I never understood what it really was. But I've never thought about doing that before. So that's very interesting. And two roses, I think the oliver rose is amazing. How's your larkers sending doing? My larker's sending.

do you know what? You sent that for my mum and it's on the back step in a pot and it's going to go in the ground next year because I just want it to be in the healthiest position ever. But there have been six beautiful buds and I have walked out every day

and it's made me think of my mum and it was her birthday this weekend but also it's just made me think of your dad as well just like you know you gave me that rose you bought that for me is such a lovely thing to do and then I just look at it on a smile because it's such a gorgeous colour

It's kind of those lovely orangey apricot colors. Yeah. That's sort of a real mom, my mum colour. And it's so beautiful, but it's just for every time I walk past it, I think of your dad as well. Oh, thank you. I love it. So that's a good one to share as well. I think, I think Larkers sending is a really amazing.

Mine has just kept coming back and has been so floriparous, I think they say on Gardeners World. They do say that. They do. They do. Well done for saying it. Yeah. I can never say it. Floriferous.

Flouriferous. No, and the Digit team sent me. these two trees like tiny trees intertwined for me to plant for my dad so that's absolutely what I'm going to do put that in the garden somewhere and I it was just the nicest gift ever because it will live on and I will think of my dad when eventually the cherries come out on those trees so thank you very much indeed for that it was hugely appreciated the gift of trees is a wonderful thing and they don't have to be massive great big expensive trees there can be tiny trees that you then watch grow and flourish so I appreciate that Michael thank you very much for

More tips. You can follow Michael on Instagram. He's brilliant. We love him. He's one of our team. It's at the Michael Griffiths. And also he's got a new book out, which is called The Easy Garden, which sounds perfect. And it's in all good bookshops, of course. So Michael Griffiths and Easy Garden. Time for a bit of crate digging. And this week's crate digging is all about songs to boost your mood. Joe, how, I mean, it's a strange time for you at the moment. So are there cheese that you can listen to that? lift your mood or? I was up very late last night trying to put together a playlist for we're going to the pub after the funeral. My dad's second home was the village pub. I grew up literally, you know, in the pub. So we're going back there and I was doing a playlist for the music. Music is obviously incredibly important. We've had loads of karaoke nights in the pub and dad was always there on the microphone. He loved singing so much. In another life, he would have been on stage. He would have been in a band. He would have been an entertainer. But just going through trying to find some of his favourite songs. So Elbe, of course, one day like this. Dido, White Flag, he absolutely

loved that song. We had so many strange coincidences when he was entering the end of his life. Just bizarre things kept happening for about three days. One of them being, Jude was, he lives in South East London and in a block of flats, and someone had their windows wide open, and they were playing a full volume, Dido's album, White Flag. And Dido, my dad was obsessed by Dido. He named his cat Dido. And the fact that Jude was sitting in his room, no. that Granddad was about to pass away and died a white flag was blaring out into this South London

estate was really spooky. The same day, Coco went she was in Belgium on a holiday. She went to stay in a hotel. They arrived there. It was called St Martins. My dad's name is Martin. The kids were playing Scrabble. They were playing Scrabble and India sent me a photograph of the

board and there was just the word Martin and then she hadn't realised above it. Someone else had put the word adieu. So it said adieu Martin. Literally the day he died. So all these weird things happened. But I was putting the playlist together. And then I started to go down a spiral. I went to Perry Como because my dad loved Perry Como and Francis is obsessed with Perry Como. And the soundtrack to our long nights when Francis couldn't sleep until three or four in the morning. And Perry Combo's magic moments used to just go on throughout

the night. So that is something that I find very comforting and it really makes me think of my dad. And then Danny Kay, I just started to go, I was like, shall I add some Danny Kay to the play? playlist. Well, I could do Thambalina, or then I could do the King's New Clothes. And I just wanted to put the entire works of Hans Christian Anderson and Danny Kay on this dad's playlist. But they're wonderfully nostalgic and evocative songs. But it's, yeah, grief does weird things to you and makes you, the music, the music you associate with certain people is a very powerful and special thing. It really is, isn't it? Yeah. There's songs that you hear and you just always think of them and that's quite, quite joyous. Yeah. What's your mum song? What makes you think of your mum?

I mean, she used to sing the Skyboat song to all of us when we were little. So that, you know, it always reminds me of her. But yeah, just big songs that she loved singing like good vibrations and all her favorites. And there's lots of songs that my mum loved that made me cry, actually. Yeah. But she loved singing and dancing and she was just, yeah. This weekend it was Pride in Brighton. Oh, wow.

They are just watching that. I didn't get down there, but I know my McDarron and loads of. My friends went to see Diana Ross and just watching Diana Ross in the most, I've watched all the footage of her in the most phenomenal dresses and huge big cloaks on that stage singing, I'm coming out to the whole crowd at Pride in Brighton. Bravo Brighton for putting on another phenomenal pride this weekend. The atmosphere in the city has been fantastic. Ray played.

Oh, gosh. So good. And Nick Cave did an amazing gig on Friday night that lots of my friends were at. And everybody said it was really emotional. Lots of tears, lots of joy. What an incredible performance he put on. And Kylie appeared as well. So some of those tunes have been my soundtrack to the weekend.

I went to see. I went going to latitude and going to wilderness and going to see some live bands. And when you're hurting so badly inside and you're just so. in such a weird place, really, really weird place, but then going to see someone do a live performance, we just went crazy, we went absolutely wild. Me and all the kids and my friends, we went to see self-esteem, and that performance was just off the scale. I mean, she always is, but for some reason those songs spoke more deeply to us, and we danced and we sang as loudly as we could, and it felt really, really good.

And then David Gray was playing, and I thought I was going to lose it, because a lot of his songs are so emotional. This year's love, I thought, oh my God, I can't bear to hear this song. But actually, it was really soothing and really healing. And then we went to see Flaming Lips, who are just the most spectacular riot of bonkers, brilliant music.

And singing along to Do You Realize was just, it was bittersweet, and it was wonderful. And there were, you know, giant balloons, and there were rainbows, and there was rainbow lasers and everything going on, confetti all over the place. And it was literally like going to heaven. I felt like I died and gone to heaven, I had a glimpse of it.

And it was very, very soothing. And I think we've talked before about how good music is for the soul and how good raving is for your mental health. So I think sometimes when you're in a really dark place or you're feeling a little bit wobbly, a little bit anxious, to go out and to be with a whole bunch of other people, whether they're male or female or your mates or strangers, it does you the world of good sometimes. It just boosts your mood and gets you through a tricky point. so the power of music cannot be underestimated, I think. Oh, that's incredible. It's interesting. I think someone was saying that Wayne Coyne has recently lost his brother and he dedicated, do you realize to him at Down in Brighton in Preston Park on Friday.

And when you listen to the lyrics of that song, it sort of really is quite poignant as well. Yeah. Do you realize that everyone you know will die is the line, isn't it? We'll die, I know. The inevitability of life and loves and loss. And we sort of come full circle on our little pod this week. Joe, can I just say it's been so lovely to see. I've been thinking about you all the time, my darling girl.

And sending you loads of love for Friday, we'll be thinking of you. Thank you. Thank you. Lots of love, thank you. Yeah, thanks diggers for everything. Honestly, you mean the world. I'm really grateful. Thank you.

Digit is a Persephonicah production.