Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Sara Pascoe: ADHD, Female Rage & School WhatsApps

Episode Date: August 12, 2026

Sara Pascoe joins Zoe, and no stone is left unturned as they share home truths about modern parenting. They also open up about support for children with ADHD and later life diagnoses, share their unmissable Crate Digging recommendations and take a deep dive into why Sara admits ‘I don’t like music’.GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by Panda London, Costa Coffee at Home and L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm:🐼 Panda London — Make hot nights more comfortable with Panda London’s beautifully soft, breathable and thermoregulating bamboo bedding. Head to pandalondon.com and spend over £50 to receive a free Bamboo Eye Mask with your order using code DIGIT.☕ Costa Coffee at Home — Start your morning with the same great Costa taste you know and love, now in your own mug at home. Costa's new Everyday Instant Coffee is inspired by their iconic Mocha Italia blend and comes in three varieties: Smooth, Intense and Decaf. Available in selected large format supermarkets across the UK, subject to availability.💄L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm - Ready for a new era of foundation? Discover your perfect shade of the New L'Oréal Paris True Match Hyaluron Tinted Balm online or at your nearest Boots or Superdrug counter.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanProducer: Samantha Psyk & Harriet Thurley Assistant Producer: Eve Jones & Scarlett HuttonTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Camaron Laird & Jack Whiteside  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Coming up on Digit. You're going bright red and you know everyone can hear you and everyone's judging your parenting. And now, because everything's sort of like gentle, you're not allowed to shout. You have to go, I can see you're having big feelings. Does it work? It's a cue.

We're British. Get in the queue. Get in the back of the goddamn line. Yeah. And queue like the rest of us. Suck it up. That's what it is. It's got an incredible cast.

It's about why women are angry and how angry we can get. And oh my gosh, do we need to talk about that more like rage? All of that right after this. Hello, Diggers. Welcome to Digit. We're sending loads of love to Joe and her family. I know you've all been sending in amazing messages to her. She's taking a much deserved little break, as you can imagine, right now.

And so we are delighted to welcome back to Digit, Sarah Pascoe. Sarah, I feel like I literally saw you yesterday in Sheffield. You were so amazing. and you're very kindly co-hosting, Digit, with me this week. You do a fantastic podcast with Carrie Ad Lloyd and the Widows Book Club. I've been thinking, because we're going to talk about mumming, because you've got two young kids, two gorgeous boys. And I was thinking where I was packing my books to go away,

and I was like, how come I never read any rest of the time? It's only when I go on holiday that I really get to read, Sarah. I'm thinking, hang on a minute. I've got no excuse. You've got two young kids. You're working. all the time and you still have time to read books. When do you do your reading? Well, actually, when I travel to work, because I don't drive, so I'm on the train or in the back of an Uber

and that's when I do my reading. Sometimes backstage. Yeah, it is difficult to find the time to read. And I think this is what puts people off sometimes. They think that it's really sort of, oh, I should be reading more, whereas reading is a huge pleasure, isn't it? Just like watching a brilliant TV program or listening to a great album. And, you know, in the bath, I think reading in the bath is so lovely or just before bed sometimes to just wind down, even if it's just 10, 15 minutes. But yeah, on holiday, that's when I would, the dream holiday, isn't it? It's as hot. You're next to a pool, you're next to the beach and you're just read a book in a day and you get so into it. But that's why I'm not going away this year. And actually, I haven't since I've had children

because you absolutely, that is not what a holiday is like with a two-year-old and a four-year-old. Well, this is a really good subject because obviously my kids grown up now and so things are very, very different. But I remember holidays with kids. Well, so are you being serious there where you're saying you're not actually going to go away with the kids? Because it's not a holiday for mum and dad. We had a big chat about it that Theo, who's four, you can sort of negotiate with. And I think there are elements of a holiday he would find really fun, like slides and the beach. I think he'd really enjoy it.

And Albie would, you're a constant alert for drowning with Alby because he would just jump in the pool if you weren't looking. There isn't any sit down. It's like Lemmings, isn't it, at that age? They're just, they're really stubborn and they don't understand danger, which means it's very stressful for you. And so we sort of said, should we just do it? And all-inclusive and yes, it will be hard work, but we have the memories.

And then we just thought we're just on the cusp, maybe next year. So what we're going to do is we're going to go to Chessington for two nights. And that costs more, I think, than a week. It probably does than a week in Greece. Yeah. Isn't it crazy how much theme parks cost? It's the food and drink. It's the stuff that you have to buy once you're in there.

And I know it's the same like concerts and all these things where they have this huge markup that's not fair to parents. And then now you have these three tiers of cue jumping. So essentially, before you go, it's like £80 to push in front of other people. And I don't agree with it. I don't agree that either you have to spend more and then your day is better or you're standing in a queue watching other people going. Going faster than you. It's a queue.

We're British. Get in the queue. Get at the back of the goddamn line and queue like the rest of us. Suck it up. That's what it is. The other thing that really wound me up about because I spent a lot of time at Legoland, which I loved as much as Woody loved to be honest with you back in the day. And we did, yeah, we did do quite a few theme parks. but it's when you come off a ride and you're in a shop, I mean, that should be illegal.

That's so out of order because then the kids, but I kind of, I saw a kid having an amazing meltdown in Brighton the other day for because he wanted, I don't know, some plastic snake or something or other. And I was really, I was like, what an amazing mum. She was like, no. And he was on the floor, sprawled, hysterical. I was like, oh, I've been there. I've been there.

When they go, Woodie used to go rigid and not go in the buggy and you're trying to push you tell me in and be like you've got to go in the bar. And you're going bright red and you know everyone can hear you and everyone's judging your parenting. And now, because everything's sort of like gentle, you're not allowed to shout or threaten them. Yes, don't you have to do this like reasoning? And I'm thinking, you have to go,

I can see you're having big feelings. I understand you really want the snake. Does it work? Does it work the reasoning? It doesn't work. But I think the understanding is they are. are irrational. The child is irrational. And so, and they do just need the boundary to be kept. You're the pilot. Yes. And they get scared if the pilot comes to the back of the plane and goes, I'm scared

too. What are we doing? That's the analogy they use. That is an excellent analogy. I like it a lot. It's funny. My kids actually have taught me more about parenting in the later years, Sarah. because in the early years you are just making it up. I mean, we had Woody pretty much before most of our friends had kids. And I tell you what made such a difference was my lovely friends, Ben and Kirsty, they had Stan. And so we started holidaying with them and with other friends as well. But we always, there was always backup for each other.

And Woody and Stan had a playmate on holiday because they didn't have siblings. It's quite good that you've got the two boys because they do have siblings and that does make. things a lot easy because they will play. I mean, if they play. But it also means they just fight constantly. It's just constant strangling. Yeah, actually. People who just have one child, they think there's something great about having one, especially if you have it quickly. But I swear, there's nothing is better than anything else. There's dramas in everything. Yeah, because there were 10, there was 10 years between Woody and Nell and they still would fight, fight, fight. And I used to get so wound up by it and so upset because I'd see other friends kids being like, he's really

sort of like parental to his little sister. And why can't you be like that? And then I remember sitting next to, we'd gone out for dinner with lots of friends. We were in America and we had the kids and they were totally fighting. And the woman next to me happened to be a psychologist. She was brilliant. And she just said to me, it's sibling rivalry. It goes way back to, you know, early days of band. It's evolution. It's like fighting for your attention because only one of them might survive. So if you keep paying them all this attention, you. If you start ignoring that and not letting it worrying you and they will, you know, if one of them gets hurt, they'll come to you and it'll be like, okay, right, it stops now. She said, you need to stop rising to it because you're sort of feeding it.

I mean, it's easier said than done, to be honest with you, isn't it? That's stuff. It's so hard. That's what I, because you're a referee and that's what I feel like when they're hurting each other, both of them are hurting my favourite person in the world. So I find that so hard the dialing down when they say, don't give them, don't react. Don't react. Yeah, it's impossible. I'm not that good an actor.

Like, I'm sort of quaking in the corner. But I think what you said about going on holiday with friends, I think that's such a good idea if people can do that because I think it's the social aspect that you miss when you've got very young children. And then, you know, when the kids go to bed, I don't know if you had this, and then you want to have dinner with your partner and you're in the toilet, like in a shut sitting on the floor next to the toilet,

eating some old cold curry with a teaspoon. I know, just like, well, this is romantic. Yeah, because you can't, you can't leave them. But that's why a room with a balcony or a camper van or some kind of camping where you can sit outside. That's a nice idea. You know, when they're in the tent and they're in the bed and you can just sit outside with a little glass or something and look understals and even have half an hour or an hour to yourself. I think that was the thing we learned quite quick.

Holiday with friends with kids because that helped. Kids clubs, hotels with kids clubs was a bit hit and miss for us. Woody, when he was tiny, he used to scream on planes, like holler the plane down. And it was probably an inner ear problem. I think it was the pressure. Oh, so he was in pain. So he was in loads of pain. But he would scream and then everyone would be angry with me and, you know, look at you like you're a terrible parent.

And now I will make a point, if I'm on a plane or in an airport in a supermarket where any kid is having a complete meltdown and a mom or a dad is completely under stress, I will just make a point of going, I'm with you. I've been there, I've had one, it gets better. You know, it's because you just want the solidarity of even one other parent to go, it's all right, don't freak out. But also, especially if it's Zoe Ball. I think that's amazing. Oh my God, I met Zari Ball. She was just telling me, you can do this on the airplane.

You could do this. And then my kids would be like, parenting tips coming from you, mother. That's a bit rich. There was this news story last year. I don't know if you remember where a mum on a plane had given everyone little presents and a little note to say, sorry. You know, my child is going to cry and be very noisy. I hope it doesn't interrupt your flight.

And it got all this press because everyone's like, what a great idea. And then a child psychologist, or maybe a few of them, are pointing out, she shouldn't have to do that. She shouldn't have to do that. Yeah. Because you do think, oh, how consider it. And you go, no, no, no, that's how bad parents feel in a public place. When you're stuck there, it is horrible for children. They can't move.

They're strapped to you if they're under two. It's so stressful. They don't know what's going on. Yeah. That will be the biggest worry of the holiday. who is sitting near me and are they going to touch and make me feel bad for something I've got no control over. It might be a nice idea, I think, sometimes to, like there's certain airlines you go on

and you know, you kind of know if you're going on an easy jet or Ryan and you're going to a holiday, but there's going to be loads of kids on it. And I think it's like just, you know, and I have had a conversation recently with people who are saying they would fly on a plane that specifically didn't have kids. And it's like, okay, well, maybe you should put those flights on. But please don't give people a hard time. No, I would rather kids than a stag do. I travelled loads last year for a job and I did lots of Whizzair, EasyJet, Ryanair, lots of those airlines.

And the stagdos were much more problematic than children. And I feel like we've all been children. And I think that, so it's not about whether you want to be a parent yourself or if you're escaping your own kids. I think we all were, we should be considerate. Well said. If you're enjoying Digit, don't forget to hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you listen on Spotify, we'd love you. your vote in the British Podcast Awards listeners choice. Just open Spotify on your mobile,

search British Podcast Awards and you can give Digit up to three votes if you fancy. And thank you so much, as always, for your support. You're brilliant. Talking of your kids, Theo, is he starting school in September? How are you feeling about that? And how's he feeling about that? Well, he doesn't understand. He knows that he knows that he's finishing nursery, which is very pleased. about. He goes two days a week and what he doesn't understand is that school is forever now. I think he thinks he's going to go in for a day. It's such a shock. And it's amazing now that you have someone who comes to your house and meets them before they even get their class and then you go

in for a half an hour just to see the classroom and meet the teacher. And so when we did that, there was the PTA and they were selling like bags and T-shirts and water bottles and he wanted all the merch. He's like, oh, I want all the merch of the school. Yeah. And, And I know it's got absolutely no idea what five days a week for an entire sort of term is going to be like. Oh, bless. Yeah, bless. I think all of it just makes me get overwhelmed with emotion. It is so emotional.

And I see other parents just being matter of facts. And I'm like, but they're babies. We had babies and now they're in the world and they're going to be doing stuff. Well, the thing is parents react in different ways. And some parents have a really full-on stressful job they need to get to or they're like, or they've got loads of kids. and you might see them bringing in their third or fourth child. So they've got used to that process. But do not worry, you will be in good company of very emotional moms and dads because it is a big step.

And also, it's not always easy in the beginning because they don't want to stay and they're clinging to you sometimes. Other days they're like running and it's great. But it is quite a tough time as a parent. And you're like that. Oh, the stress. Also, even getting ready in the morning, how do you do something? a certain time. With nursery, if you're late, no one tells you off.

But now we're going to have to do things. Schedule, yeah. Yeah, the schedule. You are going to have to get your socks on. You're going to have to. Oh, it is utter carnage. And I always think, well done to any parents getting their kids out of the house and the shoes, the thing that's gone missing, them telling you, I've got a dress

update. What? It is utter carnage. But good luck. But you will have to have a cry. you'll have to have some big cries. Proud cries, sad cries, little ones growing up cries, crying because they won't unattached from your leg and you've got somewhere to be. And it is an amazing time.

And it feels like so long ago, I'd like to do it all again. I might do it better. I was going to ask if you ever had to navigate when they're at school. Because obviously you do have to meet lots of other parents. And it's weird already I'm having to navigate. Some people know who I am or they've seen something. You know, it could be a stand-up show. could have been an interview on something so they know a little bit about you but you know nothing

about them. Yeah. And it's such an odd thing and people either, some people pretend that they don't know you so that they can behave normally and and other people tell you, oh, you know, I've got this detail. And it makes me feel quite visible sometimes in a place I don't, I don't feel that normally around where we live. But at the school and the nursery, I felt a little self-conscious sometimes. How did you deal with that? I always felt. self-conscious at the gate. I always felt like I needed to explain myself for some reason. I don't know. And I, my kids always say to me that I slightly become someone when I'm out, which is, it's almost like putting on a show face, I guess, where I'm like, hi, and la la la. And I'm masking, they call it.

That thing of, hi, I'm this weird character. And they both be like, why are you being so weird? And also they were, they, I think I overcompensated. I think I would either not talk to anyone or I would totally be like, hi, I'm this kind of, hey, fun mum, la la la la. It's a weird thing and it is such a strange thing. And also, you know, I think it's weird for other people because they don't always know how to react to you, like you say. And it's also weird for you because sometimes you are stressed and you are, you know, there's all sorts going on. And then someone might ask you about work.

And you sort of, it's sort of like straddling those two worlds. And sometimes you just want to be mum. And sometimes you can't because someone will stop and talk to you. And as my kids got older, they used to get a bit like, oh, God, you're always talking to people. I was like, well, I'm just, I don't mind talking to people. And it's okay, my dad always talks to people. But I remember when we were kids, I remember thinking, oh, my God, it's so embarrassing that everyone, everyone knew my dad as well. It's the same thing.

You just feel on show sometimes, don't you? I think that's it. It's just an extra layer. of stuff. Yeah. And nursery has all different drop-off times. So, but school gates, as you say. School gates.

I think it feels, it feels performative. Because what tends to happen with me is not that everyone knows who I am, but one person will know, they tell them and then people Google me. Yeah. And then the next day, they've got, they know who I know. And my kids, what they do is they go, what is that person saying to you? Because they don't understand why someone we don't know has come over. what is that man saying?

And so they're more just trying to work it out rather than getting annoyed. And also it's that weird embarrassment because you kind of embarrass, it's sort of, you feel sort of slightly apologetic. It is embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. You're not special.

No, you're not special. It's just a job. And also, you're not on. So actually, if they were expecting to be entertained, I'm sorry. Yeah. I was quite an old mom by comparison, which my kids always used to remind me.

They're like, you're like the oldest parents in the playground, you and dad. Well, I'm definitely that because I had, you know, Theo at 40 and then Albi at 42. And I do that thing where I forget that people are much younger. When I'm not looking in the mirror, I feel very young still. And then they're not, they're 29 or they're 30. Yeah, they're so young. Other parents are much, much younger than me.

It's crazy, isn't it, to think that at 40, 42, you're an older mum. But that's, that is the thing. And sometimes I think, oh, yeah, wow, these guys are so young. But you eventually find your people. And it's often through who the kids become friends with. Exactly. Exactly. They make friends and it's sort of done for you.

My thing is I can't remember names. And weirdly at work, I can. But school playgrounds sometimes I'd be like, oh God, oh God, oh God. They tell me the name. Who is? What's the name? And, you know, I think you should get a little register which has all the kids' names and all the moms and dads and dads and dads. So you can look them up.

Well, actually, on the WhatsApp group, this is another. thing that really shocked me. We went for this half an hour and they made you scan to join the WhatsApp. There was no choice because I had, I had this pre thing of like, I'm not doing, I don't want to be on my phone. We're all on our phone too much anyway. And they make you join it. And my husband backed away as they brought out this sort of QR code and I was sort of looking daggers like, oh, it's me, is it? And you had to put yourself in as your child's name. Like Theodore's mom. And already I'm like, there's so much of this I've got an issue with. But it's all the, there's a lot going on, all the PTAs.

I have to say that I was hopeless, all of that, I didn't do anything to help at all. It's like, you need something for the, I could give things for the harvest festival. I could, you know, do bits like that, but I didn't do any committees or stuff like that. And my kids would always have to remind me, Mom, it's the show. Mom, it's the thing, it's the, you know. I think they ask too much at nursery. This is an example I use. at nursery, everyone got sent home

this teddy for a week. And what you were supposed to do is take pictures, take the teddy out to places and then write it all up in a book and have the photos printed. And I was so annoyed when they sent it home. And I kept, my husband gets a lot of this, I kept saying, this is mums.

I'm sorry, this is mums who have to do this. It's not the kids, they're not taking it places. Who gets photos developed? So I've got to take the thing places that no one else has done because all the other parents are like being competitive. It's not just like go to the park. My child came home.

He left it on the floor for a week. So I took one Polaroid of it on the floor. On the floor. And I thought this will be great for the next parents. Yeah. Because I've taken the pressure off. And I've said, my son wasn't interested. This is a lot of work.

The toy stayed here on the floor. And then I picked it up. And now we've brought it back. Like he said, a lovely week in our house. And they didn't think it was funny, Zoe. They didn't find that funny. See, I'm thinking immediately I would want to take the teddy to the off license. a beer garden, you know.

Take it to rehab for the weekend. Take it down to rehab. Take it to AA. Zoe, that's so funny. I wish I thought of that. Because you're absolutely right. The pressure is the parents who have to do all that stuff, isn't it? And actually, the kids don't care. They're quite happy to bring you.

You'll have to bring a pet home at some point as well. But I do think this is the stuff about all the days and the dressing up. I do think for some people, their lives are already overburdened. If you're caring for someone, like another relative, for instance, And they say it's book day tomorrow. I think that obviously there's already, you've got P.E. And swimming kits and stuff that is important for what they're doing at school. But I think the add-ons is too much.

It is a lot, isn't it? I just want to rebel against it. Also, with things like Book Day and stuff, it was always very last minute for us. So it would be like, what can we use from around the house? Yes. Yeah. And some parents are really good. But I always, it was like science projects and the big art projects where you'd walk along and go, there is no way that Johnny over there made that Millennium Falcon.

That has been made by mum and dad who have, you know, it's like I. They stayed up all night, taking the pro plus to get it finished. Come on, we've got to get this finished. Dang. So, yeah, the pressure on parents, I bet there'll be a lot of our diggers that would like to talk about that as well. So both my kids have been diagnosed with ADHD and I've not been diagnosed, but I'm pretty sure. but I will never forget of seeing that fabulous sketch you did about how you knew you had ADHD.

Well, I don't know I have ADHD. I think that's what, that's what's complicated. I've had, and so this sounds like you're similar. I've had several people, and there was one friend in particular, who I think actually I did hurt her feelings. Because when someone is saying to you have ADHD, they are really trying to help you. People who are late diagnosed, they are trying to say,

I stopped being so hard on myself when I realized this is a way that my brain processes dopamine or this is something that's very difficult I'll have to manage this with techniques because lots of people with ADHD have low self-esteem, they're really hard on themselves so a late diagnosed ADHD person is desperate to tell you

did you know what you're showing is symptomatic of this but it is tricky to be on the other side of it and so I wrote some stand-up about that and then I also I think I did upset some people Because it's really, really sensitive neurodiversity. Absolutely. There's a lot of, what should say is there's a lot of very negative, unhelpful pushback

to people who actually, it's brilliant to be diagnosed. And I'm glad that young people now are being diagnosed. But it's interesting. So because you'll have had to do forms for your children, did you? Yes. I mean, this is the thing that I always find, you know, the cruel irony is form filling is something that is really difficult for people with ADHD. And then you get these incredible forms to do for, Woody actually did manage to do his.

He got it done eventually. he told us he had ADHD when he was 15, 16. And we didn't know anything about it. And we were like, what, what are you talking about? And he was telling us some of his friends were taking meds. And we, meds, and we, I feel terrible because we didn't really listen to him. And he was absolutely right. And when I started to notice that Nell was struggling about a year before her GCSEs,

I was saying to Woody, I'm really, will you talk to your sister? She's really struggling. And he went, mom, take her, get her diagnosed. and then she will be able to understand it and she'll understand her strengths and why she struggles with, you know, getting work done and losing work and getting things finished and all that stuff.

And it was like, oh, thank goodness to Woody. I mean, Woody is the best adult in her. Yeah. I know how old. He is the parent, to be honest with, he's parented Norman and I. Is it like absolutely fabulous? Yeah, Safi.

You're Jennifer Saunders and who's Safi. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so he really helped with that. But I was doing the forms for Nell and just sort of going, oh, yes, yes. I'm thinking, no, it's not you answering. This is for Nelly. And then I sat in on the meetings with her with the doctor, the brilliant doctor.

And again, I was like, don't interrupt. Don't make it about you. Shut up. Let it be about her. This is let her tell her own story. And that was, you know, things like that are difficult for me. It's like, be quiet and listen. And it was really moving to see, you know, how, and she was, I was really proud of her about.

as she was, and the change it made to her having that diagnosis and having some support, especially before going into GCSEs, because also in the school, they, they, the kids with, you know, the neurodivergent kids could sit in a different room. They could have extra time and a slightly different setup and that really helped those kids. So it was, it was so worth it at that point for her because I think the problem with a lot of women not being diagnosed till a lot later is and a lot of, you know, finding out that so many women suddenly start to show because you mask it for years and years and then it's in menopause or perimenopause that it starts to get where you're...

Hormonal changes. Hormonal changes, yeah. What's really hard for parents, so teachers aren't allowed to tell parents they think their children are neurodivergent. So it's hard because a teacher might be knowing a pupil is struggling and they can do what they can, but that's limited. they've got this huge class. And so there's this huge pressure on parents.

And then it's very hard to get a diagnosis. I think you have to wait a long time or it's expensive. And you just wish that schools would, that there was more help and that there was more money and more, you know, for the teach, to help the teachers and teaching assistants in the classroom. Because they're now, it's just all coming to light, isn't it? That there are kids that really probably need to learn in a different way

to some of the other kids. And we're still sort of teaching in very similar ways. And I know that whenever I have these conversations, lots of people get in touch saying, actually, we are doing lots. And I, you know, anyone in education, I'm like in all of you, all the amount of work that teachers have to do. It's unbelievable. And, you know, that I know they're trying to make improvements for all kids. Yeah. We're not criticizing teachers.

We're saying you are so incredible. They should be paid better and given more time, less students sometimes, so that they can. do give the pupils what they need. It's, it comes from the government down. It's not the people in the actual classrooms who, my sister, Cheryl, is a schoolteacher. She teaches GCSE. And it's always this thing between us because she's 18 months younger than me and she was a better actor, a better singer. And in my family, it was always that Cheryl's the talented one. And then whenever it sort of comes up, like, why she hadn't come, gone into performing arts like me and she was just like, yeah, it's just really selfish. I just really wanted to do a job.

But that's true. Teachers perform all day long. They have to keep 35 uninterested people. What they do is so much harder than what we do. And they just made a choice in a different direction. We liked to do a bit of so-and-tel on the show, Sarah, because we love our gardens. We love a little bit of gardening. And I do believe we have a sow-and-tel from you this week, Sarah.

I'm about to be well-impressed. Get ready. So what you have to know about me is I'm at the very early stages and this is me and my kids together so there's been a lot of destruction as well as well as growth and I think next summer, next spring we'll know what we're doing a lot more. We've made a lot of mistakes but I have brought you

this is my one red tomato. Yes. One red tomato. Look how beautiful it is. It's so beautiful. Perfect. Look how red it is. And was there another one?

Has one been eaten? Have you managed to eat any yet? No, no. There's two green ones around. We've got two little siblings. But it is amazing that something juicy and moist can grow from earth. Tiny, tiny seed and earth.

To watch it. Yeah, it's incredible. So we've got, but also I think they are sort of like, I found out the other day, oh, it's from your gardener. When we were in Sheffield. Yeah. Ish. Ish.

And what a wonderful man. He's brilliant. Yeah. So great. And he was saying you have to water consistently. And I was like, oh, because mine sort of wither. Yes, sporadic. Then they get some water and they come back,

which I think is why I've got a small crop. But I know that now for next year. Next to them, that's not my, it looks like a big toe. But it's not, that's my thumb pointing disgustingly. This is my really gross corsettes. They're really tiny and they don't grow. They get to about two inches and then they just, they wither. So I don't know what I'm doing there, but I'm having a lot of fun.

I think the corsette plants are amazing. And also I think you learn that I think I've learned, that you sort of need to have, do you have them along the ground? Because they will grow and grow longer and longer and then they'll come off. Actually, I might be making that up. It sounds good though. So the weight of them on the stem essentially is what's making them. And the weight of them might pull them down a little bit.

But I tell you what, there is nothing more beautiful than a homegrown corsette. It doesn't matter what size they are. This is the thing. And now you've started, that's all it takes, isn't it? you just grow one tomato plant and some courgettes and the pleasure you will get from that. But I tell you, Sarah, if I once went quite big on a gardening plot for veg, it is a full-time job. So don't feel you need to do more than two or three because it's insane. I grew some broccoli and they were just completely eaten.

And then I thought, oh, I can't get into the war with insects. Like if it gets eaten, I just won't grow it again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I can't live that life where I care about slugs. I know. That's too much. And also Monty and the gang, all the lovely gardeners always say,

it's good to give some stuff to the insects because, you know, it's the circle of life and we need them. It's where they live. Yes. It's their ground. So I just like to say on behalf of all diggers, bravo, Sarah. That is an excellent show and tell. I love it. We do a bit of crate digging as well, Sarah, with recommendations.

It can be music, it can be books to read, lovely holidays for anyone who's got some time at the moment, reading your back garden on the train, wherever. Music, whatever, or a telly show. I don't, you know, is there anything you'd like to recommend? So many things. Number one, TV-wise, I'm watching Furious. Is it great? Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, Emily Rossam, my love. Is it Rossum? She's amazing. And yes, do you want to tell us a bit about the premise? You might tell it better than me. One of the biggest surprises, and I want to shout out the creator, who I believe is called Elizabeth Meriwether,

because she created new girl, and could you have two such different shows? So what you've got, your baseline, I think, is you've got a female FBI lady, that's not correct terms, and she is chasing a female serial killer. But the female serial killer is killing men who have wronged her. I'm not going to give any more details to it because it's so well done. And you have to wait every Monday. And I think it's great.

I think there's four episodes. So if someone could binge it this weekend and then you're going to be forced to wait. It's got an incredible cast. And it's about female anger. For me, it's about why women are angry and how angry we can get. And oh my gosh, do we need to talk about that more rage? But she is phenomenal. And did you know that she, Emily Rossum, I think her name is,

I ended up doing a deep dive on her because this is what I do. And she is like can sing operatically. She's a trained singer. I think she was in Les Mis. I think she was in Phantom of the Opera. And she, I've seen her on a few chat shows, watch clips where she's, you know, she's obviously a powerhouse and she's so beautiful. And she's an amazing actress in this.

She's so beautiful. Her skin is so incredible. I find it distracting from, this is one of the best programs I've watched for such a long time. And I'm like, oh, because that would be my deep dive. It's like, how old is she? How does she get that skin? How do I cut it off and put it on me? Now, that would be quite a scary plot to us.

I think we're getting into silence. That series, too. I'm inside her skin. Silence of the Lamb's cut character. That's, but yeah, it is so good for your saying. Is it on Disney? That's on Disney Plus. I've just started watching Margot's Got Money Problem, which is another really brilliant female story.

And I love that it's about having a baby. be young, I love that it's about the real economics behind why people go into things like only fans, which is what happens to the character. It's another one with the cast are incredible. You've seen them and lots of other things. El Fanning is the main character. And it does have funny moments, but it's a really great drama. If someone isn't into murdery stuff, I would say that one. Yeah. And sort of a dysfunctional family group who are, you know, surrounding and trying to support each other and all with their own, you know, they're all broken, aren't they? You've got the characters here around her who are all flawed, but they're all trying to

support. El Fanning is just so damn good. And another one with incredible skin, like just Oh, yeah. And Michelle Fyfer plays El Fanning's mother and that is a masterclass to watch her do comedy and that kind of character. When you've watched her do so many, just a range of things, to realise that someone still has a whole other side to give you. It's so good. I binged the whole lot and I can't wait. In fact, I've got to go to a cosmic party soon and I wanted to go as her only fan's character. Hungry ghost.

Hungry ghost. But then I've realised it. So I've bought some outfits. But then I was like, I can't paint myself green. And also I wasn't sure. You have to get now to do it. It's so, oh, so they are both brilliant recommendations. I've seen the whole of, Margaret's got money problems.

did get another series and there'll be more of that, which is, I'm not sure what that's on, but we can, we'll put it in the substack. Can I recommend one book as well, and then I'm done? Yeah, of course you can. And we want book recommendations from you, our book girl. Well, actually, then I'll recommend two. So there's a, there's a book called All In by Claire Powell, and that is a comedy about going on holiday with your husband that you've been with for a long time. Okay. And I think we get so many books about the beginning of relationships or the end of relationships, and I'm really into at the moment people exploring long-term monogamy and how, hard it is, but that it is beautiful to try and keep loving someone. I think it's, and so that's

really, and it's lovely because it's on a holiday, and they're on holiday with family. Great. So it's great. And then I just read Whistler by Anne Patchett, which is, all of Anne Patchett books are so amazing. Yeah. So amazing. And Whistler, it's one of those books where you just start canceling stuff, because there's nothing you'd rather be doing than reading it. It's so great. And that's about, again, dysfunctional family. She's got a biological father and two. stepdads and all of these sort of dad characters are in this book in different ways. It's so good. I've just got myself a job lot of Elizabeth Strout because I love her characters. I found her through Olive Kitteridge watching the drama, then reading the book. Wrong way around, I know,

but that's sometimes the way it is. And then are you doing Lucy Barton? I'm just doing them all. I'm like, I'll do them. I don't even know if they're supposed to be in an order, but I really love her. I think I've just read the one, the things that we don't say, oh, I can't remember, I should remember the proper. I talked about it a couple of weeks ago, so I've got my whole stuff, a whole stash. She's so sparse and you're like, how are you using normal words

that look, she's not over literary, is she? She's not sort of like verbose, and you're like, how are you making me feel so much? And that just looks like a normal sentence. And the characters I don't know who you've read, O'William yet, which is the one, yeah. How does she make you love people so much?

I can see their homes. I can see where they are. I can feel the feelings that they're feeling. I was trying to explain to the lodger why they're so good. I was like, I don't even know how to explain how she writes these characters in such a simple, but so not simple. These are really complex, fantastic characters, but you know these people so well. You know the community. You can see their relationships. And there's often lots of sadness in there, but sometimes some wonderful humor with it as well. Great. Top recommends. I have actually just spent a lot of time listening to Glenn Hansard over the last couple of weeks since he dwelt the last week since he passed away and sort of some of us. So who's Glenn Hansard? I don't know who that is.

So he was a musician from Dublin and he was in his 50s. He was originally one of the guys in the commitments, the film The Commitments and he went on to be an incredible, quite prolific songwriter and performer. He was in a band called The Frames. He wrote the music for a film called Once, and which won an Oscar. And he wrote lots of music with Eddie Vedder for a Sean Penn film. And he just writes about relationships. And his songs are pretty heartbreaking. Anyway, he died last week, possibly the week before he was in a motorbike accident over in Ireland.

And there's been such a huge outpouring. People have gathered in the streets in Dublin and sung his. his songs together. Yeah. And I know that, you know, they had an amazing wake for him, loads of musicians who'd flown him from all over the world. And his music, I don't know, it just, it just gets you right there. He's incredible.

And he obviously died very, very young. And that's a tragic and sudden, shocking way to die, isn't it? Really is. And there's been a great outpouring of love from so many people. And, you know, and lots of friends of mine, I didn't even know what fans have been talking about. And then other friends are like, who is this guy? I know who you're talking about now. Yeah.

Chris I Dowd posted about it and then Ashling Bee posted about it. And then I realised, oh, everyone knows this amazing person. Yeah. I think very much like, you know, Irish music community and everybody, obviously like Ashling and Chris, and they all knew him very well. So yeah, and Laura Whitmore and the gangs, obviously, love to all his loved ones. But just do a deep dive on his music is absolutely wonderful. So do you listen to music when you're doing gardening and other things?

I am always listening to music. music always. Yeah, I think it's why I don't get a lot of other things done sometimes. So I've either got the radio on or I play a lot of music at home. I've always got it on in the car. And the lodger listens to, in the morning, I tend to listen to a bit of grimy or Rossi on greatest hits radio. But the lodger loves the Today program. So we sort of dip between, but I would have music playing always if I could. And it's pretty eclectic. It's a bit from, it can be right across the board. Yeah, I everything has a soundtrack for me, Sarah. It's a weird way. It's sort of how my brain works. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I don't like music. And when I say that,

because when it's on, I can't do anything else. It's complete brain. And I find even films hard because the soundtrack is so compelling that I don't have it. My, I suspend disbelief too easily. I find it too evocative. Wow. And so my husband would like to play music in the house and I have to have silence. Because if the music is on, it's like either we dance to it or we switch it off. Okay.

So you can't have it. It's like too many. No, it can't be a background. It's, it would be like reading a book. Like if I was listening, it would be like, that's the only thing I'm doing. I'm just listening. Right. Okay.

I can understand that thing of I can't listen to music when I'm reading a book because, again, it's too. I mean, like you wouldn't read a book at the same time as. washing up. I can't listen to music while washing up. Wow. It's just too much. So I think I'm the exact inverse of you. Of me? Yeah, because for me, it's everywhere all the time. Yeah. Well, on that bombshell, if any of you lovely diggers have anything you'd like to say or to add on any of the subject, Sarah and I have covered today. We've covered a lot, actually. Thank you. I think we've solved a lot of problems and a shout out to the teachers doing incredible work and good luck if you're going on holiday with children. Yes, good luck if you're going.

on with, and if you have figured a great way to holiday with kids that doesn't cost loads of money and doesn't cost you too much as a parent, sort of emotionally, and you want to pass on some tips to Sarah, we'll make sure she gets them, because there might be some things where people are like, you should try this. This is what we've done with our Littlands and it's brilliant. Have an amazing time at Chessington. Thank you. Have a lovely time in Ibiza. Thanks, darling. Bye, bye, bye. Digit is a Persefonica production.