Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - Skip-Diving, Family Holidays and Mare’s Tail Misery

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball are in full summer mode - this week it’s skip-diving, French canal disasters and forgotten suitcases. Pack light and bring snacks. GET IN TOUCH 📧 Email us: [e-mail] 📱 Text us: 07477 038795 💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp: https://wa.me/447477038795 GET EARLY AND AD-FREE EPISODES Become a member of The Potting Shed for early and ad-free episodes and bonus content 👉 https://digit.supportingcast.fm/  SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSOR This episode is brought to you by Ancient and Brave. 🛍️ Get 20% off your first one-off purchase with the code DIGIT at 👉 ancientandbrave.earth/planet CREDITS Exec Producer: Jonathan O’Sullivan  Technical Producer: Will Gibson, Silvia Maresca & Oliver Geraghty Video Editor: Danny Pape    Dig It is a Persephonica production 

Coming up on Digit. Do you take stuff from people's skips? I've taken stuff from people's skips. Are you allowed? Is that massively illegal? Have I finally going to be arrested? I can't do clubbing. No.

I like to go in, woo, have a little dance, and then leg it. When I'm at home, I'm like, oh, I'll do those exercises myself. Do you? Do you? Joe. No. I don't do any of them. No, of course I don't.

Every gardener that ever comes to the house, they just look and they just like, oh, mayor's tail. Dad had taken a canal boat, and we were about to go into the sea, and it was hell on earth. All of that right after this. Hi, here we are again. Hello. Hi. We got to do a second week.

Yay. Amazing. They let us out again. We should say thank you to everybody. We've had such a lovely warm response from all of you who've been checking us out on the podcast. So thank you very much indeed. And the way it works, should we just run through how it works? So I think on Wednesday, that's when we spill our guts and the contents of our heads and our hearts and everything that's been going on in our lives.

All the chaos and all the mess and all the mess. the fun and all the angst. So that happens on Wednesday and people can watch and they can, you know, join in the chat and respond to us. And then on Mondays, it's all about just people asking us questions and us answering the questions. So that's what they get on Mondays. And if you want to get in touch and we would love, love, love to hear from you, then all you have to do is go to the show notes and all the details are there. That's how you get in touch with us. You're absolutely right. The response has been amazing. I've been trying to answer as many messages as possible. People have been great with like mum and dad names, the things that the kids

call them. We've had a lot of messages about social anxiety, which does seem to be a big issue for people. And a few people saying, but that's what you do. You make small talk for a living. That's what you do. And I was trying to explain that it's just a little bit, a little bit different sometimes, isn't it, in a social situation? But thank you so much for all the follows and the love and support. And thanks generally to people for listening. We weren't sure where we were like, Is anyone going to listen to this? Yeah, the whole thing about, you know, us being on the radio. I mean, I went into radio because I am quite a shy person.

I went into radio because I really like music, to be honest with you. And I never thought I'd be sitting here talking to you and people will be watching. So I did radio because I could just sit there with a microphone and just talk to people and play them my favorite records. And that's always been the essence of what I do. And so then it's suddenly become a much bigger thing, you know, throughout the years, throughout our careers. And it doesn't take away the fact that you're still at heart, a very shy person who finds it quite hard talking to people. talking to people in a large room and that will always be the essence of me, I think,

and the essence of many, many people. So, yeah, we seemed to open a can of worms last week, which so many people could relate to men and women alike. It was fascinating and really lovely to hear from everybody. And I think that's what this is about as well, isn't it? It's like us chatting about all the things that crop up in our worlds and our lives

and some of the things that maybe we haven't necessarily talked about in a public arena before. And the idea that people who are following and listening get in touch with us and tell us a bit about, you know, similar, similar feelings on these things. Yeah, the response has been great. So thank you very much. And you can follow us, I believe. I don't know how. I'm still sussing all of this stuff out. Dig it pod. Dig it pod or digit pod, obviously, as my son is calling it. Yeah. As I know, there's a couple of people who said, is it called digit. We tried to space the letters out so that it is far apart, but it's definitely dig it.

Joe, I can see an album next to the cat. What is it? I thought this is what I'd do. I do this every week. I did it last week. Then I didn't mention it. It was kind of, it was so subliminal that no one will have noticed.

But maybe I'll just kind of actually tell people about it. So every week I'm going to just have an album that I think is really great and I've been listening to. And it's not necessarily going to be the album of the week that's out that week. It'll be something old and probably quite weird sometimes. But this was last week's, which is, that was Fontaine's DC. I mean, what a great album cover. But also. Brilliant album. So yeah, that was last week's. And this is this week's, this is Pulp.

Oh, is this the new one? Yeah, yeah. It's really great. There's a song, Farmers Market is really good. Sunset, I absolutely love at the end of it. So yeah, every week, when you watch, just look out for the album because there'll be something weird in the background, and that'll be my album the week. I love that. What I'm now going to do is I'm, I've got loads of vinyl behind me. So I'm going to just crate dig. I'm just going to pull an album from behind me. I'm going to apologise in advance because there's some real weird shit in this area.

So I might actually look at it. Just check that. I'm not going to pull out something. I could never do that with my rotator cuff. I can't turn my shoulder that way. Oh, God. Oh my God. I don't believe it.

This is absolutely priceless. I'm holding this really weirdly. This is Cat Stevens. It's the soundtrack to Harold and Maud, which is my favourite ever film. I can't believe this. And lovely Nick. Dewey, who's married to Emily, Evis, Glass-Barre.

We all love the film, Harold and Maud. And he managed to get, because they never released an album of the soundtrack. So he got this from Japan. And look, I got it signed by Yusuf, Katz Stevens. When he played at Glastonbury. The most treasured record. How did I manage to pluck that? That's amazing.

I'll do that this time. Oh, it's beautiful. Oh. Yeah, love that. Oh, I'm quite proud of that. I can't guarantee it'll be as good as that next week, though, to be honest with you. There's some terrible tut that will come out.

We definitely need some music chat on the on the pod as well, don't me? So if people have heard something amazing, then just let us know. Are you quite organised? Is your house really tidy, Joe? Well, well, this weekend has been the best weekend ever because it was a weekend of no plans. Because nearly every weekend, so I look at my diary. I'm like, oh my God, I'm here, there, I'm everywhere. And this weekend, nothing, absolutely nothing to do.

So it was getting myself organized as in starting running again. So I went for a little run. I went for a swim. which I haven't done for absolutely ages, and I ordered a skip. So this weekend was the weekend of the skip, and I love nothing better than a skip just to get rid of all the stuff that's in the house that's been kind of hanging around, doing absolutely nothing. And again, incredibly cathartic. I feel so good. When I wave goodbye to that skip, I'm like, yeah, there's all my baggage. It's all going now. And it's a great, great feeling. So I've done all the cupboards. I've done all those

deep, dark places where all the gone off herbs lie, or the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the, The fancy dress debris lies, so wigs and the old cowboy boot that's been left behind after the party, it's in the skip now or it's being recycled. Oh, God, it's so good doing that, isn't it? Do you do that thing? Because I live on a road where it's actually quite difficult to get, you know, you've got to go through the whole polar of getting, you know, a permit to get a skip. So they don't hang around out here.

I quite like it when there's a skip down the street because you're like, oh, I'm going to have a little look. Do you take stuff from people's skips? I've taken stuff from people's skips. Are you allowed? is that massively illegal? Have I finally going to be arrested? No. I think you're doing people of favour.

Yeah, I think so. There's more room in the skip. Our local tip is a fantastic place. I really love that thing where everyone's to get, because you know, there's that real feeling of people have got organised. You know, you're clearing out the old paint that's been there. You're like, oh, I might need that paint. Never going to use that paint again.

All the stuff that you're getting rid of. Old broken garden chairs, you know, random bits of plastic and metal that have been around the house. But as you get rid of stuff, there's always someone going, oh, can I, can I take that? It's always a real shame when you look really deep and you think, I would have had that. I would have had that weird broken 60s chair. I don't know what I would have done with it.

You don't want to come around to do mind to you. There's, oh, I've got so much rubbish in this house. It's actually, do you know, it's so much easier to sort other people's rubbish out than your own, isn't it? Yes. You have those debates with yourself like, shall I get, oh, but this has got memories, this, I really love this thing. And it's really hard to part with it.

But actually, I'm quite, I think I'm, I'm, quite a moniker from friends. I'm really, really good at just going, I'm enough. I don't need you in my life anymore. I want you out of my house because I quite like to be, I do like the house to be organised. So I don't like clutter lying around. I like everything to be in its place, which is obviously quite a battle when you've got four kids plus partners and everybody coming in out of the house all the time and various parties going on. Yeah, which is why, which is why this weekend was just amazing. It was so amazing. But I, I don't know about you. I've got lots of things like pictures and photographs and I never know what to do with those. When you're done with them,

when they're on the wall and you've had enough, I would love to know what people do with those sentimental things. Where do you put them? And we just stick them in the loft. And I'm very mindful that it's not going to be my job to get rid of all that stuff. Like 10, 20, 30, 40 years down the line, my kids will be going, why did mum keep this? And it'll be a disc from Coldplay or something. They'll be like, who's this band? Yeah. My brother and I had to do that with Mum's house last year. And what's happened is Jamie and I have now got houses full of mum stuff as well. So, and my mum always used to be like, oh, darlings, get rid of everything. Don't need it all. La la la la. When we cleared her house out, I was like, mother, she had so much stuff. I realized

where half my problems come from was like, oh yeah, she had a shoe issue. Yep, she had a beige top issue. Yeah, she had, and she had so many photographs in frames, you know, I mean, the stuff she had, she had stuff from old pantos. And, but she just had it neatly put away, but it was all still there. You'd be like, how can there be more stuff? So now, because it's really hard when you're, you know, clearing, you know, a loved one's house and stuff like that, you want to, you keep half of it. So now my brother and I have boxes and boxes and boxes of mum's photographs. So I thought the other day, I'm going to try, I don't know when I'm going to have the time, and just do some photo books. And then do photos of her life and then her grandkids and all her adventures and put them into books.

And I think we did one for Woody when he was 18. I thought I'm going to do one for Nell, all the picks. And maybe that's what we do with the artwork and the photographs that have hung on the wall and stuff. Because you do, you look at them for so long and then the kids get bored of them, don't they? and you, I don't know whether your kids do that thing. There has to be an equal amount of photographs of them. Like Woody and Nell are often. Hang on a minute.

There's four of Nellie. There's, oh, typical, she's the favourite. Well, it's only one of me. And it's in the other room. I'm like, no, it's fine. I love you equally. Yeah, yeah. We don't have that many photos.

I mean, things have changed, haven't they so much? Because when India, who's now in the 30s, when she was a tiny, we had so many photo frames, you know, that you get the frames and you do, put all the pictures in there and you have them on the wall. We had so many photographs that we printed out and it would be a regular thing to go to snappy snaps and to print them all out and to sit down look over the photographs. And now it's just all digital, which is great and it's amazing. But there are so less photographs on the walls these days. We just don't have them. We don't have photo albums. I used to put things into picture frames all the time. And that just doesn't happen

anymore because it's all on my phone. It's all on the phone, isn't it? It's in your phone and we take so many. It's like, hmm, all these screensavers of recipes. And, you know, my screensavers, I laugh. They're full of me taking pictures of people doing Pilates at home on Instagram. You know, and these girls are so super fit. They probably don't even need to do Pilates. And I'm taking pictures of them freeze frames so that I can try. Why do you take photos of them just to torture yourself?

No, it's so that I can keep them in a folder. And then when I'm at home, I'm like, oh, I'll do those exercises myself. I don't do any of them, Joe. No. I don't do any of them. No, of course I don't. And I've got all the gear, it's everywhere, straps and mats and balls and stuff like that. A few weeks ago, I subscribed to loads of different classes because I was like, I haven't got time to go to the gym at the moment.

Life is really busy. I'm going to be that person that does all those workouts online. I'm going to absolutely do that. I'm going to cancel. When I get off talking to you today, I'm going to cancel all those subscriptions because you just don't do them. Do you? Don't do that. Yeah, I know.

I've got a yoga app and I do use the yoga app. Do you? Okay. Like a little half hour. I'm like, actually, I will. I mean, how often that is? It's not that often. But I have a whole load of other apps.

What's the name? Tracy Anderson. So I used to do the Tracy Anderson workout. You know, you remember she's train Madonna. I've got friends who do it. It's hardcore. But again, I join all these things. And then, do you know, the other thing I joined recently was a woman who tells you what to wear.

I'm paying so much money to this woman in America who tells me what to wear. I ignore all the messages. I'm like, why? I also find a slightly passive aggressive. I'm like, no, I don't need to be listening to you. But it's my own fault. I signed up for it. I'm a sucker though, Joe.

I am a sucker for this stuff. I'm a sucker for all of it. And then what I need now is a declutterer who says, you do not need this app. You do not need this exercise app. You won't need this. How many places do you subscribe to, but to help you with gardening?

I just love it every week that something comes along. It's like 10 plants to buy this week. 10 things to do in your garden. and I actually religiously do those things. So maybe it's like it's your biggest passion. That is what you follow up on, don't you? Yeah. Top tips on things to do in the garden are really good.

And that's why like all the people I follow on Instagram. I love all this people because they do, you know, help with like the mulch last week. The hacking, hacking things back. All that, you know, those things are really, really helpful. I trimmed the roses a little bit yesterday because there's like my roses have got loads of disease on. disease leaves and stuff. Am I taking those down? I've taken a few of those down. And when you say taken down, you cut, cut it off? Cut them off. Yeah. Okay. Probably. What kind of disease? What do they look like? I don't know. I've got an app. Okay. I've got an app that I subscribe to.

Yeah. Use that. That tells me. One of my favorite apps is the bird identifier. I don't know whether you have this, but with the mornings being so light and I keep get woken up by these birds that are just making extremely loud noises and I've got the windows open because it's so hot. And I find myself at four in the morning, getting the bird identify, literally asleep, bird identify, what is that bird? Oh, it's a woodpecker. I've got a woodpecker in the garden. And it's, it's fascinating. So that is one of my favorite things to subscribe to is actually identifying either birds or plants or plant disease, maybe. The plant apps are really handy because you're out and about and you think, I really love this, I want this. And also things pop up in your garden,

don't they? What, yeah, have you got an issue with, what's this plant that you were asking about? Yeah. Right. Okay. What? What? What is Mayer's Tale? I've never seen it before until the end of last year. And then this spiky thing started appearing at the bottom of the garden. We've got a little tiny stream at the bottom of the garden. And this spiky thing appeared. Quite pretty.

And I thought, that's quite interesting. What's that? And then someone came along and they were like, oh, you got Mayer's tail. Just shook their head. And I was like, okay, is this like an affliction? Have I got a disease? What's going on? And apparently, mares tail, the roots can actually reach down to six feet under the ground,

which is a really long way to dig. and it's deeper than any of my spades are going to get. And they're almost impossible to get rid of. So it feels like once you've got it, you're done for. And this year, I've just got a carpet of Mayer's Tail. And I have no idea what to do about it because Weakler is not a good idea, obviously, but it's just taking over everywhere. So if anybody watching does have any genius ideas about Mayer's Tale and how to control it,

or do I just live with it? Is it something like bindweed that you just live with? I have no idea. Every garden that ever comes to the house, they just look, and they're just like, oh, mares tale. And it's literally like having a gardener's terminal disease. Have you tried doing things like, can you control it? Can you put like cardboard over it?

Stop it getting the light for a bit? Or I mean, or have you got to dig down and get it out? I think I feel like if I'd spotted it, if I'd acted a year ago when I had a tiny bit, it would have been fine. And I feel like now it's just gone too far. So I genuinely do not know what to do. And I think the only thing I can do is live with it and then just keep mowing, just keep mowing it down and just try and control it that way. And try and stop it creeping up the garden. But that is my fear at the moment.

it's just going to creep up and then just take over all the borders. Oh, God, yeah, that's the kind of thing you'd have a nightmare about a night waking up and it's at the windows. Yeah. Mayors' tale, mares. Yeah. Day of the Triffids. We're going to take a quick break for some ads. But if you're keen to listen to these episodes early and ad-free, don't forget you can subscribe to the potting shed. Become a member of the potting shed and receive bonus bits, longer episodes and early access to tickets to live events. If you're wondering how to subscribe, there is a link. in the show notes. Right, time for a break. If you're loving Dig It's so far, don't forget to hit follow, so you'll never miss an episode. It's the school holidays now. You lot love a holiday, don't you? Family holidays. Do you all go away together? I love a family holiday. Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah. God, I don't think Steve and I have been away on holiday together since, God, India was about

three years old, so probably 30 years. We just don't do holidays as a couple, but we do holidays as an ensemble. So it's either all the kids and now it's the kids and the partners. And in the past, it's been kids, partners and all our friends. So we go to Cornwall quite a lot and we used to go to this caravan site in Poleseth, which we love very much indeed, Valley Park. And we take over about 10 different caravans and it'd be all our friends there. And it was just the best holiday memories ever that we had so much fun, whether it was just jumping in the sea and the rain in wetsuits, having barbecues, all that kind of stuff, just having as many people around as possible, playing volleyball on the beach.

Just simply the best holiday. Super simple. Like cheap as anything. And just fun because it was friends and it was family. Yeah, absolutely. And gorgeous down there as well. What about you? We've gone to a Beather for quite every summer for quite a long time.

Because obviously the kid's dad, you know, Norm worked out there quite a lot. So the kids all sort of tend to do that. I've actually in the last couple of years had quite a few holidays on my own, which has been quite a thing. I really love it. I just go away and I read books and I do what I kind of want to do which is quite lovely. And I guess I hadn't sort of

done holidays on my own for a long, long time. They'd always been a bit of a gang or at least with somebody else. So going on holiday on your own is quite an undertaking, I think, isn't it? I quite like it. I really like my own company and I would actually really enjoy a holiday on my own. Were you nervous when you did it?

And was it like a yoga or a wellness retreat? kind of holiday? Is that what you did initially? I've done a couple of wellness retreats on my own. I've been to a lovely juicy retreat, Jason's place out in Portugal. Jason Vale. Yeah, Jason Vale. And they're doing something like that. I think if you do like a wellness retreat, it's quite a lovely thing because there are people there if you want to join in with stuff, but you can also have time for yourself. And I went to the one that's in the mountains and there's a river so you could just go and sit by the river and swim in the river every day. It's so peaceful. do yoga three times a day. And I lost a bit of weight because I did some juicing, which the first

time I went for, I'm going to find this really hard, but I really, really enjoyed it. And also just to be peaceful, I think I've always travelled with loads and loads and loads of people. I spent a lot of holidays with loads of those people and then suddenly just really got into a quieter lifestyle. And so found quite a few holidays on my own, just sneaking off and just having chance to read and not having to sort of, you know, cook for loads and loads of people or go to the supermarket and, you know, or do organised fun with everybody. So I think there's kind of room for both in my life as well. That sounds like an actual holiday where you come back and you're restored and you feel better. You've had a rest. It's really good. Also, I was put off camping

by family holidays when we were young. We had a caravan. We would be in a caravan, me, my two brothers and my stepmom and my dad. And it was a very small space. It was a very small space. And I guess the age difference between me and my brothers as well. You know, I was just like a really awkward teenager. And actually, I wanted to be chatting to French boys or, you know, doing stuff like that. And I was a good total nerd.

And I don't know. It was just something about camping holidays. And now I'm like, oh, no, I just can't do it. I can't do it now. I like, you know, it can be Airbnb, it'll be running water. It could be a little, you know, bed and breakfast. I'm absolutely fine. As long as I've got a shower and a loo. I don't know. I've got into creature creature cups and somewhere I can plug in my hair dryer. You said at the beginning, you love holidays.

In fact, I'm completely and utterly honest with you. I dread holidays. We're doing a beef this year like you. We used to go to Ibiza when the kids were tiny. We went there lots and lots. And I've got memories of Jude and Cass. This is one particular holiday that we went on. And we went to Abitha and we packed the cases and the kids were tiny. So it was utter chaos. So they were like, ranged from 12 down to three. And, packed all the bags, got on holiday, got to the villa, went to unpack the bags, everyone looking around, where on earth of the bags? Where's the boy's suitcase? And we discovered that the suitcase had obviously been lost by the airline and we were, I was furious.

We were phoning up the airline going to God, what, you've lost the case? The kids are going to have nothing to wear on holiday now. How could this happen? And then my dad phoned up and went, I've just been upstairs into your bedroom and there's still a suitcase on the bed. And of course, we left the boy's suitcase on the bed and actually forgotten to take it on holiday with us. So it was nothing to do with the airline at all. So for the two weeks that we were in Ibiza, the boys wore Pasha T-shirts and underpants. And that's all they wore for the whole holiday because they did not have a wardrobe. They had nothing to wear. And there weren't many shops that I could buy any clothes for them. But that was an amazing holiday faux par. Literally, we've forgotten

to bring the kids clothes. This is a good thing now. Traveling is much easier, isn't it? Because there's stuff everywhere and you can kind of get a hold of things. I hate packing. It's a pet hate of mine. I'm also so chaotic. It takes me like two weeks to have a pile and the pile gets bigger. Then the park gets smaller and then the case is huge. And I don't know.

I wish I, what I always think is when you come back from holiday, what you should do is just put the pile of things that you wore, i.e. two swimsuits, two dresses, one pair of shorts. It's all you wear the whole time.

And I'm like, I need this. I need all these hair clips. I need all these toiletries. I've got so many creams. I need 18 books, you know. And I'll read two if you're lucky. But yeah, packing can be a nightmare. Just thinking of Abitha, it's funny because my kids have gone there their whole lives.

And I've got this really cute video of Woody doing the Woody dance. And I think it's at Ben Arras. And we turned around and he was in his little tiny shorts. And he's standing on a wall and he just does this little little dance. And we're like, you're such a brilliant, eccentric little monkey. And it was a sign of how he would be for the rest of his life. And now whenever we go there, we all stand on the wall and do the woody dance in our pants. And now, you know, the kids are great.

And if I go to Abitha, I drop them off at the club, go home, have a night's sleep and then come back and pick them up in the morning. Have a coffee. And then I get up and go and pick them up because they're, you know, they're still out dancing. It's brilliant. I tell you what, you've got to go to Pikes, though, if you go to Bita. Pikes is quite fun. Of course, we should say Pikes, if people are going, I've heard the name, but what is it? And it's legendary because it's the place that's featured in the Wham Club Tropicana video.

That's the place, you know, when they strut in and they go to the pool and Andrew's on his Lilo. That's Pikes. I quite like it because you can sit, you can have a meal. Food's really good. You can have a cocktail. You can sit down. I'm all about a club where I can have a sit down. All my friends used to go to DC 10.

And I'm like, is there anywhere I can sit down? Honestly, I'm an 80-year-old in a 54-year-old's body. I can't do clubbing. No. Oh, I kind of love it, but I like to go in, have a little dance and then leg it out. When you go to Abitha, will you go clubbing with the kids? I will not go clubbing. I just don't do clubbing. I don't particularly like club music. I can't dance to save my life. I've got no rhythm whatsoever.

So going to a club would just give me a massive panic attack. I just wouldn't know what to do with myself. I just wouldn't. I am much, much happier when we're all around the table, all the kids, all their friends, their family, their partners, and we're playing a game. So it'll be all about playing board games or quizzes. We're really, really into doing quizzes at dinner. Are you brilliant? Who organises? Disco Steve. Disco Steve, of course he does. Disco Steve is the quiz master because he loves a microphone. He loves taking control of the thing. And he loves chat GPT. And then Jude is also very good. He's really good at organising. But everybody loves a quiz. We all get involved. And there's so many good games. I always really enjoy it. And again, if people are watching and you've discovered any

great new games that we can take on holiday or do on holiday, I want to hear because that's how we spend our holidays the whole time. How is it with all your kids' partners? Have they been with their partners for quite a long time? Because if you've got lots of different personalities to manage within your group, that's a big group of people to be away with? It is. I mean, I love, we love their partners. They're so, I mean, they're my kids. They're part of our family and they're fitted in incredibly well. And it's wonderful. So they come on holiday and they're just part of the gang. They're just there are gang members. And I think we're quite a loud family. I'm not loud at all. I'm probably the quietest one of the family. But the rest of them are very, very strong,

dominant characters. And they've actually chosen partners who are quite quite quiet as well, surprisingly, because that's how it has to work, I think. Because I'm with Steve and he's very loud and gregarious. And then the kids have got partners who are just like, you know, the steady, calming hand in the relationship. The development of your children and your family as you get older and older, I find absolutely fascinating. Just seeing the way, the dynamics between their relationships, how they evolve. And it's just, it's wonderful. It's really, it's like reading a book in a way and just finding out, you know, different twists and turns in the story. Yeah, it's really true because there's 10 years between Mighty. And, you know, and so Woody had been an only child.

And then along comes this very cute little girl. So they had real sibling. rivalry for a long, long time. They would both just wind each other up. And, you know, I'd be quite exasperated with it sometimes. And I remember talking to a woman in a restaurant once and she went, I think she was a child psychologist and she's like, look, it's all for your attention. And if you keep reacting, they'll keep fighting for your attention. But if you just leave them to suss it out and get on with it, they'll, you know, bicker and they'll, but it's actually good. It's, you know, they're learning survival skills and it's, you know, survival of the fittest and stuff like that. And I love watching them now as they're getting older and, you know, Nels, you know, Woo's 24, Nels 15, but they are

getting, they're closer and closer and closer and they can still really wind each other up, but they are so funny and they're so smart and they, you know, they really, really make me laugh a hell of a lot. They make me not take life too seriously, which I can be, you know, I can take a way too seriously sometimes. And they're like, come on, mother, stop taking it so seriously. And I'm really chuffed because Woody's just said that he can actually make it out to see me when I'm out in Abitha for a couple of days. So now will be there with her dad. So I'll probably hook up with her at some point. And Woody's going to come out for a couple of days.

But he travels as a pack. Woody never is, he's never on his own. So there's always. He's like, oh, so and so is here. And so and so is here. And I'm like, right. Okay. So I'm like, I've only got space for two people.

Are you going to be in a pack? So we'll, well, you know. Because he DJs as well. So his summer is like his work time. So he's always really, really busy. So I'm really looking forward to just having a bit of time with him. It's a family holiday, proper family holiday for you again, which is lovely. After doing your solitary holidays, this will be your gang again.

I can't wait. The thing I love about my family is how much the kids have grown to love each other. Like you were just saying, you know, there was a lot of rivalry at certain points when Coco came along. She was 17 years younger than India, my first daughter. and it was like throwing a grenade into what was a relatively peaceful situation. But as they've grown older, it's just, it's lovely to see how much they love each other. And they would genuinely rather be with each other and enjoy each other's company more than anybody else in the world. And to see them laughing, they're injokes, taking the Mickey out of each other and just gently.

They're so tactile and physical and cuddly with each other. It's just the greatest joy in my life. It's lovely. Yeah, you just know they're going to be all right. bright in life, don't you? I think that was the thing. Woody was an only child and I just thought, oh, I just really want him to have a brother or sister. So that, you know, later on in life, when, you know, I'm driving them crazy, they can ring each other and go, oh, mum's, mom's kicking off. Mom's kicking off, quick, come around. And they'll always have each other. With your brothers,

what's the age difference? You said about the age difference earlier. So my brothers, it's a complicated family, our family, go on. So Nick and Dan I grew up with, we've got a different mom, same dad. And they are seven and eight years younger than me. So Nick's going to be, I don't even know. I can never figure out how old anyone is, but they're way younger than me. And then my brother, Jamie, we've got the same mum. And we're all quite different, but they are, they are wonderful. And I've got loads of nieces and nephews who I completely adore. My brother's coming this week with Ronnie and Juno. Ronnie's 16. He's already. a DJ. I can't move for DJs in this family. But he's, we think he's probably the best of

the lot. Even Woody's like, Mum, he has skills. Ronnie, 16, just done his GCSE, he's managed to get two gigs at Glastonbury. They managed to talk him into getting a couple of gigs. He's fantastic. So there's a lot of us. Nick always used to come away with me and his kids. But we haven't a holiday together for a while, but he's coming with me. We're flying out together, Nick and I. And that brings back a lot of memories of, you know, holidays together when we were kids. So they were camping holidays. We did a lot of camping. You know, because back in the day, we used to, oh, we'd go to the Lake District and it would rain for two weeks.

And everyone would drive each other mad and we'd all fight. And we'd try and play a game of Cludeau and my brother Dan would be like, I know who did it. It's like, you can't possibly know. We've only just started, understand the rules of this game. My dad is very competitive. So, you know, those holidays to me, at the time, the time were hell. They was hell. Now we can laugh about them. Also, my dad would always take us on boats. We'd go on the canal du midi, all right? The most horrendous holiday. We would, dad would be like,

oh, we can go down here. He'd take us off some canal. It would be an offshoot. And there was this amazing situation where we got to a bridge, the boat got stuck under the bridge, all these French people were on the bridge shouting at us, no, they're crazy English. And basically, it was an opening to the ocean, the sea. Dad had taken a canal boat and we were about to go into the sea. I mean, it was hell on earth. So it perss off life. So this is why I'm not massively into camping and I'm definitely not into going on boats.

So anything other than that. But when was the first time? Did you go away on your own as a teenager? Did you have a holiday away from the family? My family holidays were it was kind of dominated by Francis. I go on occasional holiday. with mum and dad, they take us away and we'd leave Francis behind. But the early holidays were caravans.

We used to go to Great Yarmouth quite a lot, Hun Stanton, I think. But Yarmouth was a massive feature, and it would always have to cater to what Francis loved. And Francis loved slot machines. She loves a bit of bingo. We used to go on the big dippers. And it was just endless going for entertainment. It was really all about the slot machines. And little trains, she really, really loved getting on a train that would go around the holiday camp.

So we just would spend hours and, hours, just the two of us in Little Train, just kind of waving everybody as we went by. And also do you remember in arcades, we'd spend so much time in arcades where you'd roll the balls up and then the horses would gallop along. Oh, I love those games. Oh my gosh, he loves those. Donkey Derby. Yes. Donky Derby's, yeah. Donkey Derby. Sometimes they'd be camels. Yes. Love those. But it was playing games all the time. You see there the game playing. But it didn't put you off going camping either. Well, no, it did. I also would not go camping very much now at all. I would do a caravan at a push, but yeah, I'm a certain age. I've done my time in a tent. And I'd much prefer to have somewhere. I can have a shower and dry my hair as well. But they were my formative years. When the kids first went away without you, I mean, how were you that? I mean, I was rubbish. Woody would go on a school trip and I'd be worried about him. I'd be like, oh, no, it's going to, you know, especially if they were doing anything like caving or, kind of.

I was like, I need to come. I need to be a helper. I'm really worried about letting out my sight. And then he went, he went travelling. And I was so, I hate goodbyes. I hate goodbyes. I'm always really worried I'm never going to see people again. And he went off travelling.

And I just remembered like sobbing for days after he'd gone and being like, please, because he's so irresponsible. I'm like, it's just going to be really a response. Something terrible is going to happen to him. And he went, he went travelling around the world. And poor thing, it was then. COVID. So he'd managed to do quite a bit of New Zealand and then he got locked down. And luckily we've got an amazing friend in New Zealand and he got locked down with her and her family

out there. And so he was with them, I mean, eating them out of house and home. But I couldn't wait for the day he got back. How long was he away for? He was, I think he was away for about nine months in the end. Oh, Zoe, that's hard. I know. It was really hard. Never been so happy to see him again. Yeah, that hug must have been amazing. It's really tough when the kids go away. Have yours done that? Have they gone off? Yeah, they have.

India's done a lot of travelling. So she went to New Zealand and Australia. And you do have those times when they go, I'm going to be out of range for quite long time. You won't be able to get hold of me. And your world stops, doesn't it? Everything is just suspended until you get the phone call that goes, oh, hi, we've had this amazing adventure.

And now we're back and you can speak to us again. And Jude went to Vietnam last year. And he sent us a message and went, oh, we're literally the only people in this jungle station where we are. But I'm sure everything would be absolutely fine. Sent me some photographs. And for the whole night, I just literally did not sleep. It was like I phoned a million times.

I was just the most anxious, awful mother in the world. And then, and they went on a bird watching tour because that's what they like doing. Him amazing. They love watching birds. So when I got the call that they'd done the bird watching, they'd been reunited, they'd found their tour guide and they were still alive. It was such a good feeling. because things do happen to people, to people's kids,

and it's just they're the stories that you remember in your head when they go off because you just want to be the mother hen that has your children around you all the time, don't you? But then also you've got to let them go. You have to let them go and you've got to let them live their life. Woody does a thing where he'll just deliberately wind me up because he knows I worry. So he'll always be like, he'll do the fake call where he's like, mom, a bit of an issue. I'm like, what? What's happened? and he does it on purpose, you know, and his friends know it now where they all like,

Zoe, we've had it with an instant. I'm right, what? Oh, my God. They're like, just kidding. They see how long they can keep it running. I said to him, you're going to give me a frippin' early heart attack at some point. He is a monkey. I know he's such a little git.

I love him dearly. But yeah, also he's like, Mother, if I'm calling, it's probably okay. I'm probably all right. Yes, I know. Find my child is my favorite app now, like having gone for years going, oh, I just said, you know, you shouldn't be tracking people. shouldn't be checking where people are. Now all of a sudden, it's the best thing in the world so that I can just check

they're in their beds, in their place, wherever they are. It just gives you such solace and comfort just to know where they are. When that dot is not moving and they're in a bed somewhere, that's great. That's absolutely great. You know they're safe. They've got the train. They've seen Billy Eilish. They're on the way home.

I can pick them up. Do you think they track us? Do you think they track us, you know? I don't let them track me. I would not let them track me. I do not like. I think my kids know where I am, though. They're like, she's in the garden or she's at the superststand.

door. Well, that's probably enough from us today, but we'd love to hear from you, gang. Things we talked about holidays. Anybody else like me just have the fear when it comes to holidays about making those decisions, where you go, what you do? Do you like a gang holiday? Do you take your friends and your family and what do you do when you're all together or holidays on your own? Is that exactly your kind of thing? Is that what keeps you saying for the rest of the year? And also, I really want to know about games that you can play on holiday. I mean, we do. We've rinsed a lot of games, so I need some new games, please. Anything that you've discovered that you play on holiday, tell me all about it, and then I can play it on my holiday day from this year and share it with all of you, so we've all

got new things to do. And also, I mean, we talked about sibling rivalries at whatever age, because it happens when your kids are like two and three. It still happens when they're 27 and 29, I can tell you now, how do you sort it out? How do you manage sibling rivalry with your kids? If you want to let us know all the details of how you can contact us are in the show notes, and we would really, really love to hear from you, because that's what this is all about. It's just about a conversation, isn't it? And like helping each other out. sharing tips, getting us through. We'd love to hear from you.

I have a good week. Is it a busy one? No, do you know, after the chaos of last week, this week is it's manageable. It's good. There might be, I've got a skip to fill, which I'm going to do. And then latitude at the end of the week. So this is my festival I go to and I don't work. And I'm going with all the kids and my friends as well.

So I've got a lovely week to look ahead to. I'm very excited about it. What about you? Okay. I look forward to hearing the aftermath of latitude. Yes, we'll discuss festivals then. Yeah, we can discuss festivals.

I'm going to be hanging out on my brother and his kids. I may go roller skating with my niece, yes. I know. I know. We'll see how that goes. If I'm on crutches next week,

don't be surprised. Have a great week, darling. Yeah, all right. Lots of love. See you next week. Digit is a Persefonica production.