Dig It with Jo Whiley and Zoe Ball - ‘Too Fat, Too Thin, Too Outspoken’: You Can’t Win As A Woman

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

Alex Jones joins Zoe Ball for this week’s Dig It, while Jo has some much-needed time with her family. They give their no holds barred take on Marie-France Van Heel – the Prime Minister’s wife �� hitting the headlines for all the wrong reasons. They also share the juggle of being a working mum during the school holidays, Zoe recommends the perfect summer reads, and Alex reveals why she – in her own words – is frittata’d up to her eyeballs. GET IN TOUCH📧 Email us: [e-mail]📱 Text or Voice Note: 07477 038795💬 Or tap here to send a voice note or message on WhatsApp:⁠ ⁠https://wa.me/447477038795SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR SPONSORSThis episode is brought to you by Panda London and Costa Coffee.🐼 Panda London — Make hot nights more comfortable with Panda London’s beautifully soft, breathable and thermoregulating bamboo bedding. Head to pandalondon.com and spend over £50 to receive a free Bamboo Eye Mask with your order using code DIGIT.☕ Costa Coffee at Home — Start your morning with the same great Costa taste you know and love, now in your own mug at home. Costa's new Everyday Instant Coffee is inspired by their iconic Mocha Italia blend and comes in three varieties: Smooth, Intense and Decaf. Available in selected large format supermarkets across the UK, subject to availability.CREDITSExec Producer: Jonathan O’SullivanProducer: Harriet Thurley and Samantha PsykAssistant Producer: Eve JonesTechnical Producer: Oliver GeraghtyVideo Editors: Cameron Laird and Jack Whiteside  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Coming up on Digit. We set in a precedence now where nobody's allowed to look old. It's like you can't win sometimes. You're boring, you're dull, you're fuddy-duddy, woman flaunting her body. And it's like, stop saying that. I have found pictures of a man that I can no longer recognise various girlfriends, though. I was like, who's she? And get off my husband, by the way.

Anybody who comes over, they go home with a box of eggs. And it's quite a nice thing to do, really. But I mean, if I'm honest, I'm frittarded up to my eyeballs. All of that, right after this. Welcome, Alex. Oh, hello, Zoe. Welcome to Digit, darling. Thank you for having me.

No, listen, thank you so much for coming on Digit so that we can give our Joe some much needed time to be with her family at the moment. Obviously, we're sending Joe so much love. And Al, we've had so many amazing messages from our diggers for her who've been through loss and grief and they're just sending so much love to her. Yeah. And she sent love to everybody this morning. I text her.

How is she doing? Is she okay? She's doing okay. As good as you can be. In these situations, I think she's had some really lovely time with the kids this weekend. So we're sending her so much love. All the love. How has it been getting to this record this morning, Al, because you have three kids.

I do. And of course, it's the beginning of the summer holidays. But weirdly, though, this is my first day back at work in quite a few weeks. I know. Because we've been off for the World Cup and the tennis. And today's the first day back. So you are my first kind of meeting of the morning. And what a lovely way to start working week.

I mean, amazing. But getting here. Oh, my goodness. So the kids have got their first. first full week off today. Yeah. And they couldn't believe the fact that I had to go to work. I mean, they were like, what?

Livid. But we're off. Livid. Annie, livid when I was trying to leave the house. But also, I don't have a working phone, which, and I mean, it's weird. It's like I might as well not have a right arm. So basically, I dropped my phone a few weeks ago, boring, cut the story right down. A man fixed it, a lovely man.

one of those, how should I say it, unofficial shops. I know them, you know them. How fantastic. But the joke was, I went into my kind of network provider and they pointed across the road and went, go and see the guy across the road. And anyway, he fixed it.

But it was on the night of the England match. And I think he was rushing. As he would be. You know, fair enough. Right, I got there at five. The shop was shutting at half past five. This man wanted to get to the pub. And he said,

any problems, he was lovely. And he said, any problems, bring it back. Well, now, all I can see is rainbow stripes, which is pretty, but I can't do anything. So you press it and nothing happens. So I've got no phone. My husband, Charlie, is very kindly said, I'll take it back to the guy and see whether he can fix it. But it's the weirdest sensation. So I've got no phone. I'd run out of foundation because I've been on holiday mode. I don't wear makeup. So I have gone, I shouldn't even say this, But I've got Factor 50, four-year-old, sort of foundation color sun cream on. With a tints. With a tints.

Nice. Yes. It's Factor 50. These lights are bright in the, you know, when we're doing a podcast, Al. You'll be protected fully. Do you know what, though? This is what happens. This is life, isn't it?

This is life. Broken phone, no foundation. And the kids start in their holidays and you have to go back to work. If you're loving Digit so far, hit follow or subscribe that way. You'll get brand new episodes as soon as they're out. So we had four weeks off altogether, which was lovely though, because it meant that I could do things. I can't normally do, like pick them up from school, do the school fair, do all the end-of-term

concerts. And let's face it, we all know there are trillions of them. I mean, end of year, that period is like an Olympics for parents. I mean, it's just like this. There's just like cash going out of the bank because it's like they need this 20 pounds for the trip and now they need this outfit for the school assembly. You know, it's just, and if you've got a lever,

well, I don't know how people cope with that. Because I cried because other people's children were leaving school. I mean, I've been a blubbering mess for two weeks. Tell me about the kids, eldest to youngest. You've got three, haven't you? Yeah, we've got three. We've got Teddy, who's nine.

Kit who's just turned seven and then Annie who's four Oh you're so lucky Scrumptious But anyway did all that which was lovely And now this is their official First Week Off and I'm back at school The timing is appalling

So they have been signed up for various camps The boys are going to like a Matilda school It's like a theatre camp You know like a musical theatre camp today That sounds brilliant Well, I think it's what I would have loved. But Ted is really into that.

And then Kit, our middle one, he's so not into that. I mean, he was like, what, singing and dancing all week, Mama. I went, well, there might be a bitter football. And he went, a bitter football. Yeah. I love the fact that you've slightly conned Kit there with there might be a bitter football, which will probably have to be instigated by him on a lunch break. Yeah.

Because I'm not, I don't remember there being a football scene. in when I grow up and the Matilda Cap... But I'm with you, see, I would have loved that when I was a kid to go and do a musicals kind of week. Yeah, I mean, what better. And then on Friday they do a performance. And will you get to see that?

Well, I will because I thought, okay, well, so I've swapped my Fridays. You know, the juggle is real, isn't it? The juggle. So it was supposed to be, I was supposed to work this Friday and then the following Friday off, so I've swapped them so I can go to the performance. Kit will be there just doing keepy-uppies in the corner with a football, the only kid.

But you know, it's what has to happen, isn't it? It's what has to happen. Do you know what it's about this is just a little glance into the life of working mums, working mums with three kids. It's, well, I'm really glad, though, that you get that bit of time off so that you can do those things. Because this is the thing, isn't it? When you're a working mum, you have to sacrifice certain bits of your kids' life. I mean, Woody will never let me forget.

I mean, he's 25 going on 26. And he will still never let me forget the swimming gala I wasn't at. It's like, you weren't, you didn't even like swimming. But he's still, to this day, it's like, well, you were never at my swimming gala's. I know. He's like, you didn't even swim. You hated it. Yeah.

It's like that thing, isn't it? When you can have like 80 brilliant messages and one really bad one. And the kids, you know, for all the stuff you're at, they don't remember. They only remember the things that you didn't make it to. which are the minority. Yeah. It's a cruel thing, though. It is a cruel thing.

I think you've spoken to so many parents there about that last sort of hurrah of the school term when everyone's completely broken, shattered and there's suddenly, it ramps right up to 100 with the expectations on the kids, on the teachers, on the school and on the

parents. It's absolute mayhem. Nothing is easy. It doesn't matter which end of it you're doing. It's all an absolute shit show, isn't it? It's exactly what it is. It is a total shit show. And I kind of love it when the kids catch you sometimes and they look at you.

And for a little brief minute, they get it. And they look at it and they're like, yeah, it's actually quite full on. Yeah. Yeah. You just get that little acknowledgement. I do love how, you know, they can be siblings and in some ways can be so similar. And yet in other ways, you look at kids sometimes and think, how are you so different? And then, I mean, isn't it wonderful?

You just do not know who they're going to become these fabulous little bodies where you're like, oh, wow. No. And you know, when you do, you know, you obviously, your children are a little bit older, but still, you know, when you have those holidays together, you just want to hold on to time. Do you know what I've been doing this morning? So, on the way here, I'll let you into a little secret.

So I didn't have a phone. But I brought Charlie's iPad. And because I thought, well, at least then I've got a way of being online. I mean, it's no help at all because none of my stuff is on it. But his photographs are on it. So I've been down a rabbit hole for an hour in the car where I started scrolling back. And you know, you go back and we looked at this recent holiday, the last few days on the Isle of White. Just absolutely lovely.

Isle of Wight, by the way. Oh, come on. Isn't it gorgeous? We love the Isle of Wight. My brother's there now with his kids. Goes every year. Love it. Yeah. We went yesterday.

I hadn't been since I was six. And I thought, you know, just it's quite nice to relive your own childhood sometimes. So I said, come on, Charlie. And Charlie hates a theme park. He's like, no, with weather like this, we should be on the beach. And I said, but it'll be really fun for them. And I said, it's the oldest theme park in the UK. Let's go.

I mean, parts of it. It's quite creepy. Tragic. But there's like signs there. And it was like, the black. I can't even say the Black Gang-Chine is older than time itself because it was built before Greenwich Mean Time. I mean, that's how old it is. That's how old it is.

And, you know, in different parts, you think there's this castle and they've got sort of sleeping beauty and the prince, these mannequins. It's proper creepy. But it's also brilliant because it's like this old Victorian sort of, you know, theme park with sort of, yeah, it's just. Brilliant. If you're going to the Isle of White to anybody, do go and it's reasonable. Don't get the kids packed lunch though because that's not reasonable and the apples were bruised. But apart from that is brilliant. I do love an Alex Jones review, TripAdvisor review. I'd like to see the comments. The apples are bruised. But apart from that, everything was absolutely brilliant. Oh yeah, so that's what we were saying. We were looking at these photos. I was in the car looking at these photos of the Isle of

And then because I had time, though, I scrolled back to 2007. Well, Charlie and I weren't together then. I have found pictures of a man that I can no longer recognize. What? What a previous relationship? Well, he was like, you know, it's just all his previous life documented there. Oh, you're Charlie's life. Yes, my Charlie.

Of course, I would, they're not your photos. I was like, hang on a minute. Charlie's got a photo of your ex-pull. I'm really confused. Oh, so this is Charlie's life before you. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. I started looking at photos of, you know,

our time on the Isle of White last week and then went back to different holidays and then scrolled further back when the children were born, further back and it was our first holiday in 2011. And then I went where no man should ever go. I scrolled back all the way to the beginning to 2007 and got to know this man that I don't really know. Like at rock festivals and I thought, oh my God, I have curtailed his fun.

It's what I thought. Is it just you, Alex, do you think, or is it the fact that you have three kids as well? And you both work. You know, I don't think you should hold yourself wholly responsible for, you know, what kind of concerts was he out so is that something that you don't get to do anymore you two well he definitely would love to but I think he's you know there's just all this

him of him skiing hiking concerts various girlfriends though I was like who she and get off my husband by the way there was a lot of that going on I was like who's this one oh my god she's very blonde I didn't think he liked blonde

this is so great do you know what not many people get to do that the deep dive in the I love seeing photos of sort of pre well I mean obviously the two are points and then you don't yeah then there's certain things because sometimes I ask questions about previous lives and then I always get a look

because I'm like well no I'm just interested you know when you had that relationship that maybe you say now that you perhaps shouldn't have done or when this thing happened or this person And I think women were just quite intrigued sometimes. But do we really want to know these things? Well, I just had a bit of an hour to myself. And that was all it was to do.

So, and I feel I've come out the other side. And I kind of go, he had a life before me. I mean, I've got questions about at least three photos. Like, who's this? Apparently, you're more of a brunette person. This girl here is very blonde. But, you know, it's just like him and his friends looking so young and careful. free and I just think sometimes it's good to be reminded of that person who you met who looks

quite different to the one you've got now, you know? We all change because we all have to adapt, don't we? Because life just gets in the way. Yeah, life gets in the way. And the thing is, he can still ski and hike. Yeah. It's just you've got to plan it very well of if one's away or one's or, I mean, do you, is it possible for, I was thinking I've just had a mini break. I've had three nights away in New Yorker this weekend. My Yorker. Absolutely bliss. hop on the plane, you know, and you see all the families with kids traveling and there were loads of delays. There were loads of dramas.

We could run out of water and all sorts of things. And it's all right for us because it's just two adults. And we've just like people watch. I love a bit of people watching at the airport. You're just like, oh, it's fascinating. And working out the stories, people having rouse. There was a point where everyone was crying. Like, what's just fine in the water?

Everyone's crying. Drama's, little babies. Because I haven't got any little ones anymore, Alan. I'm just, I think I'm slightly borderline, possibly. about to be reported any minute for like that woman's really staring at my baby. You can borrow mine, though. Don't worry. You can honestly, I've got a week free beginning of August. They've got no camps. Off you go to Auntie Zoe. Auntie Zoe. Come on there. We'll do an anti-Zo camp, which will probably involve utter chaos carnage, no rules whatsoever. You'll get them

back and be like, cricky, you're not going there again. But seriously, because I was thinking this just, I was thinking about doing the podcast with you thinking, get me, I've had a mini break, it's been lovely, three days away, ideal. Do you and Charlie ever get a couple of nights away? Not really. I mean, we did, so we used to, around my birthday, we try and do sort of a city break, you know, like Paris or Amsterdam. And you just, I think it's so important because you remember why you're together. You get to hold hands and just walk and, you know, have a glass of wine when you fancy it. But we haven't managed. it for the last few years. And, you know, hearing that you've been to Majorca and that thing where you

haven't, and I mean, and I love being with the kids more than anything. Yes. But also, you have to be able to protect your relationship, don't you? It's really important. And just to have that time when it's just the both of you, just to catch up. Where did you go in Majorca? Let me live precariously through you. So I just booked online at the last minute. It was one of those things of should we just get on a play? Let's do it. Let's get on a plane. Nell was off hanging out, going to Bruno Mars. She was with her fella. She was going off. Her dad was away. It was like, oh, there's a little window. Let's just go. And we, I went online and you know when you're like, oh, right, I'll just book that. I'll book that. I only managed to completely

accidentally book Sir Richard Branson's hotel, which turned out to be quite swanky. And when I got there, I thought, oh, my God, this is really plush. And like everyone's there, they were all quite shishi. But it was, do you know what? It was lovely. We did quite, did very little, went around, you know, Palmer, led in the sun. I read, I've read a book and a half-al. I mean, and that is a rare thing. Go on. What did you read? Oh, I read. Well, here. I read. I love Elizabeth Strout. Right. She wrote Olive Kittridge. And she writes books about people on, just people who live very ordinary lives in a community. And this, This one is about a teacher called Artie Dam and it's just about his life.

And although not much happens, so much happens because it, you know, like any community of people, there is always, you know, affairs and dramas and things that have happened in their lives. It's only a short book. That's probably what. It's only 200 pages. And that was delightful. I loved it. And then I'm also reading Flesh by.

Yes. David Slay and that's about a Hungarian boy called Istavan and just about these little vignettes from his life and it's quite sort of weirdly sexual at the beginning. It's very sexual. I mean the first two chapters I was like, wow. Yeah, that first bit of the book so rude. Oh, well, it's, I was like, I don't know what to do with myself, young man, old woman. And then it turns out she's only 42. It's like the way it goes on about her, I thought she was about 90. Well, I know. And then I was like, oh God, oh God, I'm so much older than that already. And he's describing how low her boobs are. Great. It's really devastating. And how disgusting her

nipples are. And I'm thinking, well, I had a good look at mine after that. But I'm pleased to report, they'd seem to look okay. I'm not quite sure what to do with this information. Yeah, I didn't know where to look. And I was just on my own. But that's a good book. Flesh is brilliant. And is quite, that's quite thin. Not that we should recommend books that are just thin. But sometimes to get, beginning to end, you don't need a big, buy you bull of a book. No, because sometimes the thing is,

in everyday life I get distracted very easily. I've got that kind of brain anyway. There's always so much going on. So to just be able to pick something up and immediately be in and you're like, oh wow, I'm off. And both of those books did that for me, which was perfect.

But anyway, I will have your kids. If you and Charlie fancy a mini break. Thank you. I mean, I've never met your kids and they might find my parenting style quite deranged. But you know what? If you need me, I'll pop over. I'll be like Mrs. Doubtfire. Oh, well, will you come and then you can also look after the million animals as well?

Yeah, come on. Talk me through. Talk me through the animals. How many, who have you got? Well, there's, so there's Scout the Lab. There's Sabrina, the kitten. there is Rebecca, Snowy and Willow, the rabbits, they're new, and six chickens. Oh, wow, that's quite a gang.

There was no need, was there? I mean, we were up to here as it was, and then we've just added more and more responsibility. That's why we can't go on a mini-barrick, so because that's it. That's it. So hang on a minute. When you talked to me into having your kids for three, actually I talked to myself and having your kids for a couple of days, you forgot to tell me. about the pets, yeah. But does this mean fresh eggs? Do you get fresh eggs? Fresh eggs? Or are they

retired? No, no. These were chickens that we rescued from the British Hen Welfare Society God. I hope that's right. But anyway, it's them. And we went there and we were going to pick up three. But then, of course, we doubled the number. But there were hundreds of them and you could pick and then they just pop them in a crate in the car for you. And then if you've got a good setup and they check if you've got, you know, the right stuff. They're really careful about who gets to take them. And then they laid straight away because they said, oh, they might be a little bit traumatized, you know, with a move and everything. But they laid straight away and they lay at least five eggs a day. Wow. I know. That's amazing. Do you get through them? Do you share them? Do you leave them out the

driveway? Yeah, we give them to people. Anybody who comes over, they go home with a box of eggs. And it's quite a nice thing to do really. But I mean, I am, if I'm honest, I'm frittarded up to my eyeballs. That's all we've eaten since we have these chickens. Oh, God, Mom, not another frittata. We're going to take a quick break for some ads. But if you're keen to listen to these episodes early and ad free, you can subscribe to the potting shed.

Yearly subscriptions, get a free Digit Tote bag, and Father Gill's sow and tell seed. Just click the link to subscribe in the show notes. Right, time for a break. Alex, something we should definitely talk about is the Ferreore that quite rightfully so has come from the treatment of the Prime Minister's wife, our brand new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, his wife, Mary France Van Heel, last week. In fact, we've had a voice note from Donna, one of our diggers, about this very fact.

absolutely raging about the slagging off that Frankie, Andy Burnham's wife has had this week over that dress she wore. She looked freaking fantastic. She looked like a woman. She looked beautiful. And the annoying thing is it was other women who were slagging her off. So mad about it, honestly. Thanks, girls. Bye. Wow. Absolutely right. So this is Andy Burnham's first day at number. Number 10 and his incredible wife. Frankie, I think she's known as to her mates or Marie France, is standing alongside him. An amazing day for the family.

I mean, this is a big day in Andy's life, a big day for his family, moving into number 10 as well and for his kids, all sorts. And yet, what are we talking about? We're talking about her dress. I know. Isn't it ridiculous? Well, it is. I think Donna is absolutely spot on. You know, as you say, Zoe, you know, it's a big day.

for them as a family. And of course you're going to wear your best clobber. You know, it's like, I don't know, if your child was getting married or if it was your graduation, it's those big moments. And I mean, not many people get to go into number 10 with their husband as the prime minister.

But also, let's forget that it's her husband. She, as a woman, as her right to wear whatever the hell she was. Yeah. I think it's fine that she could choose what she wants. And by the way, also, you know, we're always focused on, oh, she's the wife of the Prime Minister, but she is a self-made woman. She has a successful career.

She's had three children. It's her money, potentially. That's bought that dress probably is. Let her wear what she wants and she looks great, didn't it, I think? It does break your heart, doesn't it? Because it's like you can't win sometimes. As a woman, you know, we're either too fat, we're too thin, you're too outspoken, you're not outspoken enough, you know, you're trying to be original, you're not, you know,

you're boring, you're dull, you're fuddy-duddy, you're flaunting it. Another headline, it's a tabloid phrase that is banded around a lot of women flaunting her body. And it's like, stop saying that. No woman flaunts their body, you know, just women just want to, you know, or you don't want that written about you anyway, flaunting yourself. It's, it really breaks my heart. because also there was a whole conversation around Anne Hathaway and her appearance in the Odyssey, this whole conversation about whether she's had Botox and now whether she can show emotion because she's had Botox. And then there was a comparison to her frown and Sidney Sweeney's frown because apparently

Sidney who happens to be a few years younger than Anne Hathaway, apparently she's not had Botox. Well, I was going to say. You're like, why are we having these conversations? This is, you know, and I'd seen the Odyssey and I thought Anne Hathaway, It was amazing. And I never once thought, oh, God, what has she done to her face? I just thought she was amazing as Penelope.

And it's like, why are we doing this? Stop it. Yeah. And also, if Anne Hathaway wants Botox, Anne Hathaway can bloody well have the Botox. Exactly. And Sidney Sweeney came on The One Show. Yeah. Because she was talking about her film called Made.

And she is, you know, she's late 20s, I think. So, and even then. if she wants to put Botox in her face, go for your life. But why are we so obsessed with it? And, you know, it actually goes back to, you know, when we started talking on this episode and I was like, oh my God, I haven't got foundation. Oh my God, my hair's orange. And actually, thinking about it, all of that probably stems from all of this

because we know that we're constantly being judged. And deep down, I don't care. That's the thing. I just don't care. Because there is so many other things going on in life, you know, sadly, my appearance, and maybe that's a surprise for people who think because we do the job so that we do, it would be high up there. But it really isn't.

But however, there's a part of me that does care because you know you're being judged the minute you sit in front of a camera or the minute you step out of the house even. Absolutely. But you sort of think of it in the workplace. I mean, what we do, we've got to be on telly or on the road. radio and stuff. So, you know, you do have to make an effort and I do understand. And we will be scrutinized, you know, I think, but it's, but it is, it does feel like that for women everywhere. And I know some men as well. But it sort of, it does feel sometimes like you can't win. And a thing,

I think the thing upsets me the most is when women don't big up other women. If so if a woman takes a woman down, I always find that with female journalists. If, if a female journalist does a real sort of nasty peace about another woman. It makes me so cross because I'm like, for goodness sake, we're fighting enough fights as it as it is. And, you know, just be there for each other. Just big each other up. Remind each other that people look great.

Compliment your friends when they're wearing a new frock. You can see, you know, when people need it. And let's not make what somebody's wearing the freaking headline. I know. It's terrible, isn't it? When that is the headline or whether a woman has had Botox or not and whether She should have Botox. And now she's had Botox perhaps because she feels like she needs to look good in appearance.

And then you're giving her a hard time because she's had Botox. And now you're thinking her face doesn't move enough. It's like, stop this. Stop the judging. Well, you know, and that's the thing. I look at Mum, right? And Mum hasn't ever, she's never had Botox. She's never done anything to her face because they are not of that generation, are they?

Yeah. You know? And mum always says to me, please don't do anything like that, Al. And I think, but, Mom, you know, it's so kind of run of the mill now for all of us. And she said, but please don't. And I look at Mum and I still think she's so beautiful because she is comfortable in her own skin. All of it is just her the way she's aged naturally. She still looks incredible.

She's still super stylish. And I think we set in a precedence now where nobody's allowed to look old. Yeah. And old isn't always bad. Old is just because you've lived. a life. And what a privilege, by the way, to live a long life. You know, I don't know, I'm really scared for sort of girls that are younger than us that are coming up who are in they may be late 20s, early 30s, and now everybody is starting to fiddle with their face.

I think also, Al, the thing that scares me is that we will in time find out what damage that stuff. You know, it's like your body has to cope with a lot in life. And we see as we get older and we have friends who go through all sorts of stuff, you know, and our parents, that our bodies are fighting the potential of lots of, you know, disease and all sorts in our lives. If you're putting any extra bits in, surely one day we're going to find out that they're really not, it's not good for us. And there's lots, you know, and I kind of, I had the same thing. I used to look at my mum in that way and just think, you are so gorgeous and beautiful. and she always made an effort.

She always looked fabulous. But even when she'd, you know, just woken up in the morning, and she just, oh, so gorgeous. In fact, I'll tell you, Al, once I had something done to my lip, whereas I hate these sort of lines here, because it looked like a rite smoker. And I thought I'd get something stabbed in those because it would make a difference.

And I went to lunch with my mum a couple of days afterwards, and I was just literally drooling my drink down my. down my face. And she was wetting herself laughing. She's like, what the hell have you done to yourself? I was like, mum, I think I've had Botox in my lip to try and stop these lines. And she's like, and now you're dribbling down yourself. She went, well, that's worked out well for you, hasn't it? And I just thought, you're absolutely right. Hit the nail on the head. If you have too much Botox in your lip, you can't give someone a blow job either. And this may well not make the podcast. But because you can't. We've got no time for that. You've got the muscles. There's no time for that.

busy working women mothers. But the thing is, like, I've seen a lot of people, right? And because I'm starting to think that, I don't know, everything seems to be losing gravity around sort of mouth, chin area. So I did a bit of Googling when I had a phone that worked and said, you know, what is the best thing to do for droopy cheeks and chin? Oh, what, jowls, this sort of. Yeah.

Like here, right? And actually, you know, it came up with all sorts of things, none of which were Botox, which I thought he would say. But it was like fillers and or a face, what do you call it? Like a facelift, basically. Lower facelift or a string. There's a string one, isn't there? Isn't there a string that? I mean, I always make it feel slightly vomitful where there's a string that you pull.

I'm imagining you just tighten it on elastic bands behind your ears. Yeah. Like opening a tin of it. sardines like that. Yeah. Yank it back. But don't start with that. Don't start with it.

Well, I'd never say never because, you know, again, we're living up to impossible sort of goals, aren't we? Because everybody's doing it. And so everybody looks like they never age any more than sort of 35, 40 anymore. Whoever wants to do it, go for your life. Just your face, go for it. Yeah. But I think, as you say,

There's so many other things health-wise that concern me. I'd really think twice about putting things into my body that don't necessarily need to be there. Absolutely. And to Frankie, to marry France, I hope, you know, she's, you know, I hope she kind of, when all this kind of furoré happened last week, that she was a bit like, I don't, I don't give a hoot.

Alex, we always talk about gardening on Dig It. Obviously, Joe and I love our gardens. You have bought a fabulous house that you've been renovating and you've been doing. I've been really loving it on your Instagram and get to see updates on the interiors and the exterior. So how is the garden renovation coming on? What stage are you at at the moment? Well, so our house, I'll just give a bit of background. It's kind of, sort of a Georgian house and what drew us both to the house? Well, I say drew us both.

I'd put an offer in before Charlie'd even seen the house. He was in New Zealand. And I thought, right, I'm going to take the bull by the horns. I love this house. I'll make an offer by then, that we'd been looking for about four years, so I knew he would love it. And the thing that drew me and then him when he did eventually see it

was the fact that the house sits in the middle of the garden. And the lady, lovely lady, called Penelope who lived there before. She was 94 when she died just six months after she'd moved from the house, I know. Oh, bless Penelope. But she had put her heart and soul into that garden. Yeah.

Oh, there I am, look, in our formal garden. I mean, it sounds grander than it is because it's just less than an acre, I think the garden is, which, of course, is, I mean, I never thought coming from South Wales, I would say that sentence. but I do love the garden and it's where we spend most of our time

you know when we lived in London we used to feel that we needed to do day trips all the time where the money we've saved just being out you know you just open the back door and they run and it's perfect but I'm really sort of conscious of not destroying this garden that this woman has spent her life working on

and so we had a few people over to come and look at the garden. They were like, well, it's your garden now. Don't worry about it. But, oh, I can't so. I just feel like, you know, she put so much into it that I do, if she, I mean, came back from the dead. I don't know why I just said that. But you know what I mean? If she suddenly, Penelope wanders in. And in fact, on half a story, a makeup artist came, this lady called Claire, you might know her. Her name's Claire Turner. She won't mind me saying that. But she's also a Clairvoyant on the side. Claire, the makeup artist is a clairvoyant. I mean, this is just gold.

I mean, you can't make it up. And she came to do my makeup at the house and she was like, oh, Penelope's here. Well, what? She had no idea that A, we'd bought it from an older lady who was called Penelope. She's like, yeah, she's a lovely prayer. Anyway, doesn't matter. I digress. That's amazing.

You see, she is. She's there. Her spirit is there in those plants. She's got secretaires in her hand and she's in front of you going, don't you dare. go near my topiary bushes. Well, exactly, because since Claire, the makeup artist slash clairvoyant has said that, I'm now quite scared to do anything because I think, well, she is here. So we have to be mindful.

So I think it needs a little bit of updating. So it's a bit like being on the set of rivals, our garden. You know, it's got sort of an 80s kind of vibe to it. There's like a, what do you call one of those things? Is it a pagoda or a pergola? I never know. Pergola. Is it the thing that everything hangs off?

Yes. So a pergola where the like roses growing up it, which is gorgeous and the most beautiful scent. But of course, I suppose it is a little bit dated by now. You know? But I sort of love the formality of it. But what we've started to do is gradually, the first job was Charlie building all these compost bins.

Well, that was a product. and a half. He's obsessed with composting. We can't throw a single food item out because either it goes to the chickens or it gets composted, right? Which is fine and I'm all for this system and but if he doesn't forget to empty the food bin in the kitchen because he leaves it and it's overflowing. I mean disgusting, maggots, all of it, right? So anyway, but he's got this composting system. So these bins have to be built first. We did that. Then we got the chickens and now we are sort of planting in the borders. But if you've got any tips, though,

because I know you're brilliant at this, of what we can plant in the borders, that will sort of become big and bushy, because otherwise you spend a fortune. You can spend a fortune. You know, and I just think what spreads like wildfire that isn't bamboo, because that's not a good look? Yeah, stay away from bamboo.

And what's that red stuff? Is it called devil, devil fingers, or? something. It's like red. I've no idea, but I'm quite liking what you're doing there with your devil fingers right now. This is where you need Joe. Do you know what? What you should do is go for a day afternoon, go and see Joe in a couple of months because Joe has the most phenomenal borders. And I think the other way of learning about these things is sometimes going to lovely gardens. Yes. And then you see, because then you see what repeats in the borders. And you can put, because otherwise you end up, you don't want to buy too much of the wrong stuff and then

think, well, what have we done with that? That's, whereas it's quite amazing how, I mean, even in my tiny little garden, it was AstroTurf sort of, you know, 18 months ago, things have gone crazy out there and there are things that have done really well. But what I've got here might not suit what you, what you have there. But there are definite plants that will spread, that will fill out that will be really healthy because you've got to think about the weather as well now with everything. It really is. And also you'll learn when you've spent a bit of time there, you learn what happens during the seasons because that's the thing. You want colour and something that does something all year round and it's taken me in quite a while to understand that because I'd always

go all big blousey flowers in the summer and then the rest of the year thinking, oh, it's all very green. So all very brown. But you want, you know, that mixture. So it's a process. It's great, but definitely go to Joes at some point because she's got big borders and she cannot lie. Pretty impressive and she's gone through that process that you have gone through. Okay, that's

a really good tip. Thank you, Zoe. Great digging. Alex, we generally recommend some music or books or films or tele or anything that we've been enjoying that our diggers might also enjoy. Have you

watched any good telly recently that you might recommend. Well, the thing that we are obsessed with, obsessed, is the second series of rivals on Disney. Honestly, and you know, Charlie was really kind of, he just didn't want to, he didn't want to like it. Right. That's the truth about it. He was like, I'm not watching this rivals. And I say, come on, just sit down for 10 minutes. Well, he was hooked. He was hooked. And now we've got one episode to go and everybody I've spoken to says that the sort of the last episode of the second series is absolutely incredible. So really looking forward to that tonight. Have you seen it? I've seen the first series and then I think I've watched the first one or two because I

love all of them. I love all the actors who are in it. They are wonderful. I remember we had Alex Hassel after the first series was so huge. He came who plays Rupert. Yeah. And he came on the show and I love the fact that he talks about he's like I've been a Shakespeare an actor all these years no fuss no you know no drama and then suddenly you know he's he's walking the catwalk for

Prada and you know people are like losing their shit over him and stuff like that it's just and also Danny Dyer's character in it or they're just as an ensemble they are amazing aren't they I think Danny Dyer is amazing in it

him and Catherine in Parkinson. His character is so lovely. Yeah, exactly. I love their story. So I'm way behind. So I need because I've just finished Widows Bay, which was really scary and I couldn't watch on my own. I was thinking about watching, what's that other one, Cape Fear, but I think that might be scary. So Rivals is the perfect thing I can watch on my own and not get scared. Brilliant. And it's scandalous and you sort of want Tiggie to get with him, even though it's slightly odd because he's quite older. She's very, very young. Yeah, but they're in love. Do I want them to be together or not? Because he's such a cad. And it's sad sometimes as well, isn't it? It is sad, but I don't know,

I think it's just got it all, you know, and even though it is a bit of a bonkathon, really, but the sort of the sex in it is quite comedy, you know, it's not kind of awkward to watch. It's just kind of fun. And at the end of a day, when you just want to sit there with a glass of something nice or a bit of dark chocolate and a herbal, like we all do at middle age, I think it's kind of the perfect program, isn't it? I found my dream shop when we were in Mallor. Oh, yeah.

It's called La Vini Loteca. And it's basically, Al, it's a wine shop where you can also buy and listen to records. Oh, my gosh. And it's like, I can't. So there's a little cafe area you can sit. They've got a duke box. And the wine in there was incredible.

And then you can buy records. I was like, I need one of these in Brighton, quite frankly. You should open one. So I ended up buying Aretha Franklin, Ahorra, which is probably, I've probably said that completely wrong. But I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet because I only got back last night. So I don't know if she's singing in Spanish. I'm imagining she's probably singing.

Oh, it'll still be nice. But I love that. I thought it was quite a rare. I love Aretha. And I bought, what did I buy? Oh, St. Antonio Carlos Jhobim. I think he's Brazilian. I know, sorry.

Shall I not pronounce that? Well, he did all the da-da-d-da-da-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. That kind of music, which is Brazilian samba-y kind of. Don't you remember the Samba on Strictly. Oh, don't. Oh, don't.

Samba. Take us back. Oh, it was the most horrendous one-minute 30 of my life. Sorry for bringing that up. If anyone else has any recommends books, films, especially books at the moment during the summer holidays where people get a chance or anything that you've watched, I will definitely be catching up on the second season of rivals. Do you know who you've got on the one show this week?

I had a quick look before I lost my phone and I think it's the cast of the Odyssey. But you see, awkwardly, I haven't had a chance to see it yet. Oh gosh, you just need three hours, that's all. When am I going to fit that in? But you'll know them all because they're great. And it's Matt Damon. He's brilliant. And Tom Holland.

I mean, there's so many people in it. You could have any number of them. But it's brilliant. I've seen it. I loved it. I was on the edge of my seat. And the, well, the other person that's on tonight, who I love, and this is so mad when we're talking about a massive, massive film.

But this is a program that I think is so goes under the radar. And it's called Faker Fortune with Fiona Bruce and Philip Mo. And I'm sorry, everybody wants to see it right to the end because of the big reveal on whether the artwork is real or not. And do you ever get it right? I get so mad because sometimes I've convinced myself that I've got it right. And then no. See, it goes under the radar, but it's absolute quality. Edge of your seat.

Oh, who are you hosting with this week? Well, again, that is a good question. I have no, I am very vague on any details. I'm still in holiday mode. I'm on Isle of White Time. You are. My phone's been fixed, so I've just had an update. Yes.

The phone's been fixed. And it was good old Charlie that took it to the man in the phone shop. Charlie, you are a good man. You've got good, and there are. You definitely have. Thanks, darling. Thank you so much. Digit is a Persephoneica production.