Digital Social Hour - AI's Game-Changing Role in Financial Planning | Lucas Winthrop DSH #1208

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

AI is transforming financial planning like never before! 🚀 Join Sean Kelly on the Digital Social Hour as he chats with Lucas from Winthrop Wealth about how cutting-edge AI tools are reshaping the way we approach money management, investment strategies, and long-term planning. 💡 From optimizing your finances to preserving wealth, this episode is packed with valuable insights for high-net-worth individuals and business owners. 💼 Lucas shares the secrets to smart estate planning, tackling market volatility, and navigating the ever-changing financial landscape. 🌟 Discover how AI enhances forecasting, streamlines decision-making, and accelerates financial education. Plus, get the scoop on crypto, gold, and even futuristic topics like mining asteroids! 🪐💰 Don’t miss out on this engaging conversation filled with expert advice, relatable examples, and insider secrets. Watch now and subscribe for more eye-opening stories on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more exciting topics and exclusive guest insights. 🔥💬 CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:27 - Lucas from Winthrop Wealth 02:55 - Tax Cuts and Jobs Act Overview 03:53 - Impact of Tariffs on Economy 06:15 - Long-Term Financial Planning Strategies 08:45 - Age Discrimination in Finance Industry 09:42 - Technology's Impact on Financial Services 13:53 - Mastermind Groups in Finance 15:54 - Role of AI in Financial Planning 18:04 - Cryptocurrency Trends and Insights 23:05 - Investing in Gold & Silver 27:30 - Understanding Inflation Effects 28:00 - Exploring the Longevity Market 29:48 - Connecting with Lucas APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Lucas Winthrop https://winthropwealth.com/team/lucas-winthrop/ https://www.instagram.com/winthropwealth/ LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ #financiallandscape #aitools #financialeducation #aiinfinance #aiinbanking

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And it's kind of, I mean, that's every industry, right? Yeah. But specifically for our industry, what it's done is that I think it's made it easier for people to come in. And if you have the right mentality, if you connect with people and you're good with on the relationship side, you can kind of piece together those, those different things, but

all right, guys, we got Lucas from Winthrop wealth here today. We're going to talk about, uh, making money and keeping money. Right? That's it. That's the key. Cause a lot of people can make money, right? That's it. That's the key. Because a lot of people can make money, but what you specialize in is kind of maintaining that or making even more of it, right?

Optimization and preservation. Yeah. Because you deal with high net worth individuals, right? I do. But it's all about helping them live life to the fullest. As you add more complexity, sometimes that's harder to do. Right. What are the qualifications to work with you?

It really depends. Like we have a soft minimum of about 2 million. So that means 2 million dollars of investable assets kind of gets you in the door. And that's where it kind of makes sense for us from a cost perspective, because our expenses are high. We have subject matter experts that are coming into the relationship. So about 2 million is kind of our soft minimum, but we have a lot of discretion to work with pretty much anyone who we believe to be a good fit. And that's the most important thing, right? We want to be able to get shit done together.

We want to have a productive relationship. We want to be engaged because at the end of the day, if we can't help you and you don't take the advice, then what do we do? But I'd say most of our clients are business owners. So typically what we see is that a lot of their net worth is tied up in their business. So high net worth, low liquidity. Yeah. That's the thing with net worth, right? Cause some people say they're worth like a billion dollars,

but it's all in equity on paper and their liquid net worth is actually nowhere near that. Yeah. Don't spend it until it's liquid. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of battle with it cause I think liquid net worth is pretty important. You know, people say these crazy numbers, but they can't buy a house or whatever. No, you can't. You can't buy a house and you really can't do much with anything that's illiquid, right? It sits there. But the interesting part about illiquidity, right? It's still part of your net worth. And so it sits in your estate. So the proper planning is super important to make sure that, okay,

if you're worth a billion dollars, right, but let's say your liquidity is less than 10%, well, you have this huge amount of net worth that you technically can't access, right? But you can do some planning from a tax perspective and a state perspective to maybe shift some of that out of your estate, use some of your gifting exemptions, and a big key for a lot of,

I'd say, business owners, especially if you're starting a business. Let's say the valuation is potentially low today, but has potential to be high tomorrow, is how do we get some of that growth out of your estate? Absolutely. I don't want to give it to the government. I know you probably don't either. No. I'd say they're not the best fiduciary of your assets. There's about to be a lot of changes, right, with the new administration, so I'm sure you're getting ready for a bunch of stuff. Yeah it's always you know there's a lot of noise. I don't think it's anything we haven't seen before but you never really know until the documents are signed and there's laws in place. One of the big ones was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act which in 2017 that was part of Trump's administration back in 2017. That was due to sunset at the end

of this year, in 2025. So what does that mean? That means that essentially tax rates were going to go back up and the estate exemptions were supposed to go back down. There's still no perfect 100% clarity on the answer there, but we think that now that Trump's back in office, we'll probably see that extended, which means that hopefully we'll maintain this lower tax rate environment and the exemptions don't get slashed in half. You've seen everything with inflation and continued growth. Those exemptions, they might sound large now, but they could go away tomorrow. And so proper planning along the way is super important.

Absolutely. Does any of the tariff stuff concern you? Apparently we're in a trade war now with Canada as of yesterday. I think we're always in a trade war with somebody. Tariffs, not so much. I mean, it's interesting, right? So we look at economic data as backwards looking and market data is forward looking, right? So it's discounting mechanism.

I don't really know. And I think that there's so many people who tell you, oh, this is exactly what happens when tariffs come on board. So it's discounting mechanism. I don't really know. And I think that there's so many people who tell you, oh, this is exactly what happens when tariffs come on board. But we look at the last administration and they didn't like tariffs, but they didn't get rid of a lot of them. Right. Right.

So people don't realize though, they just associate tariffs with Trump. Yeah. But they kept a lot of the terrorists during the last administration. You just didn't hear about it. So I think the whole idea here is you focus on what you can control. Like we can't control if Trump's going to go and put more terrorists on China, Russia, or whatever.

But what we can focus on is how we respond to what's happening in the economy, geopolitical events, how we're responding to that. And the only way you can respond to that is if you are proactively planning, right? So instead of reacting, and this is what we talk about. Looking for the ultimate online casino experience? Step into the BetMGM Casino app,

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and here's kind of like the median case. So we know that if the market's going to take a and it's gonna sell off 25% we're gonna be in a recession for a period of time or whatever right? That if I told you everything's gonna be okay for you are you gonna be that worried? Versus I don't have a plan, I watch my portfolio every day, every fluctuation up or down is giving me some type of emotional response, anxiety, and I'm reacting to it. And so I turn on CNBC and I hear, you know, some warmongering person talk about how, you know,

the world's going to fall apart and we're all screwed. And they're trying to elicit some reaction to you from you. The reality is it's mostly noise. Right. Right. The markets are pretty efficient over time. And so if you're a long-term investor, what it comes down to is how are you planning along the way? How are we building a dynamic plan that we can respond and not react to what's happening in those variables that we cannot control?

Yeah. How far out are you planning out? Cause I feel like stuff changes so fast these days and you hear about these spreadsheet warriors that say like, Oh, by the time you're 65, you'll have 10 million in the bank. Like is that even worth planning that far ahead? I think it depends. Like it's so unique to you as an individual, depending on the makeup of your financial life and just what's happening in your life in general. But I'd say we're really focused on three to five years of planning. And the reason why is you tend to have major shifts

and changes in what you want every three to five years. And so let's just take an example of I'm 34, I'm not married, right? I don't have kids, but if I met someone tomorrow and I dated and got married in three years and started a family in X five, well, what I want today is gonna look very different in three to five years. If that scenario played out.

Yeah. Right. Same thing with right now. If I was to start a business, if that business is going to be sold in five years, well, my priorities have changed. They've shifted, right. My financial life or my financial makeup looks a little different. And so three to five years is really what we like to focus on on the shorter end of the stick. Now we can project that out as far as our clients want them

or they want to see it, but the reality is it becomes more linear, right? So linear projections over a 20, 30 year period, it's just how realistic is that? Right, there's so many factors that go into that type of planning that can make such a significant shift over a 20, 30 year period. And so if we focus on three and five years, that's where we can really be productive.

I agree. And we can be more dynamic. We can be more responsive. Yeah. I've heard some high level people even go as down to one year. Yeah. I mean, look, six months, one year, it depends on how fast things are moving in your life.

Yeah. An AI industry, for example. AI, yeah. So planning, I'd say most of what we're doing, if it's on the business or kind of individual planning side of things, it's probably at the low end one year. But one to three years is really the sweet spot. And then that five years would be kind of, you know, okay, we're taking a little bit of a, you know, a gamble and going out a little further. But the only reason we do that is we're forecasting out and we're looking at, okay, how is that going to impact the tax side of things, whether individually or on your business?

And then same thing on the estate. So you kind of want to get an idea of what it could look like. But one to three years is really where we can get shit done. Makes sense. Yeah. So less than 10% of people in your space are under the age of 35. Do you see that changing the future? Do you feel like part of that's a trust thing because of age comes more

wisdom people make? Uh, it's interesting. So I will say I'm 34. I think I mentioned that my brother, who I work with, is 36. So two years older. We've been age discriminated against since we started. Right. We started in this industry when I was 22, 23 years old.

It's young. Yeah. And my brother about the same, maybe two years after me. But we were going to conferences and we were doing all this cool stuff. And we're trying to build our platform and people, you know, you have, there's a lot of ego with advisors in our industry, tons of ego. If you asked my brother, Max and I, what we're in the business of, we're in the business of killing advisor egos. Because once you kill advisor egos, you can get down to like the brass tacks of how do we help people? How do we help them live life to the fullest? Right. But anyway, so

starting out young, like we got a lot of kind of age discrimination just because we were young. And typically this industry prides themselves on experience. I've been doing this for 30 years. What do you know? You've only done it for 10. Right. I don't think that, obviously I do think that there is something to be said about experience. I think experience is absolutely important. We have a multi-generational team, so we bring that experience in-house across different ages. But at the end of the day, it's about how are you able to help the end client? And with technology, we've been able to bridge some of that experience gap a lot quicker. So if you've been doing this

industry for 30, 40 years, well, the technology in our industry has only really been really good for the last decade. So perfect timing for me when I came in. Right. Technology. What are you referencing with that? I think just in general, so it'd be everything from financial planning technology, the investment management kind of screening. Good example would be you used to have to talk to somebody who worked for a mutual fund company, right, to be able to get all the data, all the statistics, all the different analytical information that you wanted to know if that was a fund that you want to invest in, right. Now at that

about 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago, it was really primarily a relationship business. Right. Oh, I have my wholesaler. They come to the office. They'd meet with me. They'd tell me why their fund is so amazing. They introduced me to their portfolio managers. And then now that's just become so accessible online. Right. Like the tools have gotten so good in providing all the information. So you don't necessarily need to meet with those people anymore to get the information

that you did back then. And so I think just the speed and accessibility to information and shifts and changes in what we're doing, whether it's from tax planning or investment management, the information's at your fingertips. And then also like being able to use these tools to educate yourself. Right? I don't have to go take a course at a college to learn about a certain financial planning

topic. Right? I can go on YouTube and learn about it. I can go and access these materials online. And so I think just the speed to get educated is so much quicker. And it's kind of I mean, that's every industry, right? Yeah. But specifically for our industry, what it's done is I think it's made it easier for people to come in.

And if you have the right mentality, if you connect with people and you're good with on the relationship side, you can kind of piece together those those different things. But then the day what I say is it's 100% about the team that you surround yourself with. And so personally, I don't consider myself, I'd say I'm not an expert in anything, but I have the expert on my team. Yeah. Right? I'm really good at managing relationship.

I can understand what you want, and I can go get you the answer, and I'll bring that tactical person into the relationship to execute. And so I think that that shift has also started to happen in our industry where typically it used to be the, again, we talk about big egos, it was I'm the guy, right? I'm your guy or I'm your gal. I'm the person who is, you know, your investment person, your financial planner. I own the business and I do all these

other things. And that's just not, it doesn't work. It's not realistic anymore. There's too much complexity regulation for one person to be able to do all those things extremely well. Yeah, I agree. And so you kind of need specialization. And the specialization in a team structure that you can collaborate is essentially where we've focused

and we've had some tremendous success in building that kind of cultural collaboration with subject matter expertise where advisors can be really good relationship managers, but they don't have to know everything about everything. Right? They can note, they have to be dangerous enough to talk about it. And like if we're having a conversation to say, okay, I think this is the direction that we need to go, but let me pull in my subject matter expert who's going to go really deep. Right. And then you kind of become the person who has to kind of distill that down into something

that a client could digest because it can get very technical. Yeah. Hiring wealth advisors for me has been a game changer. Yeah. I'm part of Do Wealth. Have you heard of them? Do? Yeah, Jim Do.

I think I do have, no. They're not like a huge one, but, um, what drew me to them was they have a mastermind every quarter. So I get to meet all their other clients and I'm the youngest one. So like, I just get to learn like a sponge. Yeah. Yeah. It's worth it. They helped me buy a house.

They helped me mitigate taxes and, uh, it saved me more than I paid, if that makes sense. There you go. So like I pay, uh, 72k a year, but they've saved me more than that. Yep. So makes sense. So like I pay 72k a year, but they've saved me more than that. So for me, it's like an ROI almost. Oh, absolutely. And some of the connections I made in the mastermind,

I mean, have led to a huge podcast guest, sponsorships and future money down the road. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, what's really cool about our job or my job is I get to work with extremely successful people, right? And you get to kind of see, okay, well, what's made you successful? Right. Everyone has in their own right, you know, their little touch and what their little secret sauce is.

But it's funny because when it gets down to like the actual what makes someone successful, they've done three things really well, right? They know how to get work. They know how to do the work and they get paid. Right. Yeah. It's like every business does those three things. And so you take that and then you put it in any industry and you start to see, OK, well, what outside of that, like, how do they become so successful?

And you get to see all these movies. And then for me, what makes it super fun is like, if I'm talking to you and you're my client and you're my client and you're struggling with something or you're trying to figure something out, the tax side of things for the type of business that you're working in, I might have another client who has some very similar situation and we have something that we've done for them that might be interesting to you. And so either maybe connecting you guys so you can talk about it or even trying to say,

okay, well, I've seen this movie before. Here's something that might work that worked for somebody else. Right. Because you've seen a lot at this point, 10 years in now. Right. Yeah. So I'm about well, more than 10 years. Well, because you said you're 34 started 25. Yeah. About 12 years. Quick math. Eleven, man.

Are a lot of your clients getting into AI or like any future tech stuff? Yeah, I think I mean, AI is everywhere. I think it's been around a lot longer than people actually think it has. Well, I know it has, right? It's just when are we able to interact with it in a way that is meaningful? I think that's probably been over the last few years

and why you've seen AI is, I haven't gone to a conference or turned on a TV and haven't gone to a conference or, you know, turned on the TV and haven't seen something to do with AI in the last like two, three years. Right. And so, yeah, I think AI in general, it's, we get a lot of questions about it and how it's applied to what we do. For us, I think it's just making us more accurate in the way that we're able to forecast, you know, the machine learning of how are we putting goals into a systematic format and tying that into potentially like cashflow and investment advice. It's just helped us get to that next level of something that might have taken a month to do can now be done very quickly. Right.

And so the speed to get answers or do the work has definitely increased. Yeah. I think that's everywhere, right? It is. It's going to be interesting to see how it enters your space. If people start using AI for like investment advice, stock advice, crypto advice, stuff like that. They already are.

I'm hearing about it. Yeah, I haven't seen any mainstream ones, but. Yeah. And the problem is like we're in such a regulated industry. And so AI in a regulated industry needs to be really regulated. And right now, like, you know, all these large language models, you know, they're looking at certain applications for industry, but more so at the institutional level where they can keep it in house.

But I bet there's someone out there who's going to be a disruptor and comes up with some model that works extremely well for financial planning, especially for mass affluent, which is like, I don't need to talk to a person right now. I just want some general advice and here's all my information. Can you ingest it and give me an answer or some recommendations? I think that is a huge application that you'll start seeing probably in the next one to three years. Or any of your clients asking about crypto?

Yeah, they'll ask about crypto. It's funny, we talk about like the shit coins, right? Yeah, the meme coins. Meme coins, shitters, whatever you want to call them. Yeah, meme coins are crazy. I mean, it's the wild west, right? It's kind of like, in some cases, you might want to go to the casino and hit the roulette table. The odds are just as good,

maybe even better sometimes at the casino. I don't know. Especially last night, oh my God. The market tanked last night. And so like, the volatility is crazy, right? And there's no, I mean, it's pure momentum. Most of these meme coins, like the, the community is where the value is,

but the community can blow up in less than 24 hours. And so like it's, it's, it's, it is the wild west. I think that you'll probably see some stability in some of the larger, you know, more scalable coins, but the meme coins, the meme coins, it's a gamble. We get client questions all the time about meme coins. My son who's 10 years old, put $100 in something and made 10 grand in an hour. It's definitely a disruption to what we do. For sure. Because you create this, I don't know if you call it like a FOMO effect. It is. So it is a FOMO effect right like you hear about all your friends who got into

some meme coin and made a ton of money by the time you hear about it it's too late. Yeah. Right. They're way too late. The whole adage in the investment measure was, if you hear the Shushan boys talking about a stock, it's time to sell it. Right. So kind of like that telephone game. I don't know how some of these people, I've done some research. I don't think they sleep. They don't. If you sleep, you'll lose usually.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like 97% of people on pump fund lose money. I believe it. And I know stocks are similar but it's just crazy with crypto because it happens so much quicker. Oh, was the term being rugged? Yeah. Yeah. Like that won't happen with a regulated stock overnight. No, it might go down but you're not gonna blow up the whole company overnight. Right. And if it does, at least there's some type of like value,

right? Whether it's a building that the company owns or their equipment, what's the value in a meme coin? Nothing. You could argue that for not even just meme coins for most of crypto. Yeah. Other than the top five, 10 coins, there's not much value, you know?

And so it is a wild west. I do think that it's something that, here's where I see a massive application for crypto. Right. Money movement. Right. And if they can figure out the regulation to do this in a regulated way, the speed to be able to move and convert different currencies is insane. Right. Like if I wanted to send a hundred thousand dollars via wire to, let's say to Greece, right? Not only do I have to go to the bank physically, right? I have to go to the bank. I have to convert my US dollars to whatever currency it is that I'm going to be sending.

Right? There's a fee for that. It's probably going to be pretty high. And then when I send the wire, if it's an international wire, it can take a couple of days to actually be deposited and arrived in the account. Sometimes a week. Sometimes a week. I didn't want to Turkey once and it was almost a month.

Jesus. Yeah. And you know, they say, well, we've never lost an international wire. I know it's not lost, but it's just in limbo for a month. And so I can open up my wallet on my phone. I can convert from Bitcoin to Ethereum to Solana in a seconds. And I can send that money wherever I want quickly. Yeah.

And so you look at the speed, the ability to convert currency and transfer money using the crypto currencies is insane. And so everything's going to have to catch up to that at some point. So I do think that there are applications there that are going to have significant impact on how we transfer and convert currency. Agreed. And potentially no capital gains tax on US based crypto companies. That's exciting. Yeah. That's huge. That'd be great. Yeah. There's a lot of day traders and people in crypto 3.5 I think what trillion market cap right now yeah something yeah 3.5 it just passed nevada so I believe it's number six overall I think it passed gold too yeah pretty nuts it might hit number one one day I wouldn't be surprised and again like it could also blow up

right I don't well it does blow up it's cyclical. So it's hard to predict that they say every four years, but who knows what now with institutional money getting into it, I'm sure a lot of funds are getting into crypto now. Yeah. I think the not only institutional, but do you think that the government, most governments are sneaky and they have a little, they have a lot of exposure to all these other assets, whether it's for just participation or whatever other reasons, they're all involved.

Yeah. Right. Do you ever recommend gold or silver to your clients, small little percent? Yeah. I think it's always good to hold some gold. Right? It's funny. I got that question the other day when we were sitting upstairs.

The question was, should I buy gold? Should I have the physical gold or should I buy the ETF? Right. I think it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish and how it fits into your portfolio. You know, gold historically has been the stable, right? And I think honestly, personally, I own the ETF. It's easy, it's cheap. But I also have heard some pretty interesting things when it comes to silver, right? Silver, what I've heard is,

so I have a friend who said that he buys a physical commodity, right? He holds silver, he's got it in safes all over the place. And he says, well, silver is in every single electronic that's made, right? We know that, right? It's a big, big commodity when it comes to, especially electronics.

And he said that if you look at the silver contracts, people who hold silver, but don't have, haven't taken delivery of it, if they were ever to call and take their, get the physical asset, that there's not enough silver that's been mined to be able to produce it well they oversold it this is a theory right I don't know if it's real I haven't done my diligence on

it okay but I could believe if you if you think about it right how much silver is being utilized and if you look at almost every single electronic device has ever been created has silver, right? You look at the AI graphics chips, the GPUs that they're building, like silver is like one of the key components, right? Every TV, every laptop, cell phone. So there's a lot of silver being put into goods that we're manufacturing. But there's also a lot of people who hold silver who don't actually have haven't taken physical delivery of the the assets. So it's just it's interesting when you think about things like that and say, oh, well, if that's real, then then there's a big problem. Yeah. Right. And that's what kind of scares me about certain things like crypto.

It's like, OK, like, what do I own? Right. Is that, it's not something physical. Right. That's why I like to see it physically. I'm a fan of like real estate and actual gold, but at the same time you can't have a ton of gold cause you're already going to transport that. So I mean you could, right? It could be annoying, but yeah. But walk around with a Floyd Mayweather. Yeah. There's a couple of states that you can still pay. Um, I have to, you should look this up. You could pay in gold and some, yeah. So there's a couple of states that still accept gold as legal tender.

Yeah. So you can literally go in, I think gold and silver, and you could shave off a piece of gold and they had their, the state law requires them to accept it as legal time. Wow. Now, whether that's true and the establishment will do it. That's another, that's a whole nother question, but yeah, there's states that, uh, still accept gold and silver as legal tender.

That's interesting. Which is pretty cool. I've also heard the conspiracy theory that there's gold and silver on other planets and asteroids and stuff. So when we eventually get into space, there'll be even more so it would kind of lower the value technically. Yeah. Well, they talk about these like the asteroids that are solid gold, right? And things that are lurking around our solar system that are just, you know, it's more gold concentrated in one little rock than we've mined in our whole earth. Very easy.

Yeah, so if we're able to, you know, if Elon's able to get those rockets up there and go mine these stars, that's some crazy good. I mean, we're looking closer and closer. That might happen within our lifetime at the rate they're going at. Him and Bezos. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it're looking closer and closer. That might happen within our lifetime at the rate they're going at. Him and Bezos. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's super impressive. Yeah, it's wild. I think, I mean, interesting to think what that would do to just a general value of a lot of goods, right? If we were able to, I mean, the cost to go money is one thing, right? Yeah.

So you have to factor that in. It's got like, you look at a lot of, it's cool. Like I've been here in Park City and I know you've met some of the longevity folks and you reviewed a bunch of them. We talked about this idea of, you know, longevity market and how are we factoring in our age and living better into lost my train of thought. Longevity market, biohacking, living longer. Yeah. Inflation maybe? Oh the cost. Yeah so the cost right so we talk about the cost of manufacturing and so just like we're talking about gold and we have to go up and get it if it's on a star, right? There's a cost of going and getting it, which

means that the manufacturing costs to build those rockets and get up there is super high, which potentially means that the impact it would have on the value of something that we currently have wouldn't be significant to like destroy the value, Auto. But this whole idea of manufacturing is the longevity market. We look at these biohackers, the million billionaire biohackers that are innovating and they're doing these things that cost $100,000 or a million dollars a year that they're spending on their longevity. Well, they're pushing the edge in a good way. Whether some of the things they're doing are

contentious or not, that probably are, that's okay. But they're doing it, they're first movers. And so if they're able to continue to do that, what we start to see in the backend is the innovation in the manufacturing of these things, whether it's a product like a light bed or some type of therapeutic device, it gets better. And when manufacturing gets better, it also drives costs down, right? Because the first time you manufacture something, like manufacturers can be super expensive. We don't maybe have the, we have to innovate in manufacturing too, in order to reduce the costs that it takes to produce the

product. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You're saying that with Brian Johnson, he spent like millions a year, but he's gotten it down. So he sells it on the site for a couple hundred bucks. Yeah, exactly. Right. So like the first person or the first company to do it, like they're innovating. Innovation costs a lot of money, but if they're able to get some type of traction, right, they're able to start reducing the cost and it becomes more accessible to the general public. Yeah. You're seeing that with space travel. It's super expensive to go right now, but they'll probably get it down over time. One day you and I will. It's too expensive for me right now, but I think it's like a million or something, right?

I mean, but do you want to go up there? Let's let some people go first, you know? Just like the people who went down to the bottom of the ocean. I'm like, I would never do that. I'm like, that's, I don't belong down there. Yeah, that one, I don't know. That one's not for me. I'm already worried with all these plane crashes going on.

I'm not trying to do anything risky these days. I know. Well Lucas, it's Spincorp. Where can people learn more about you? Get in touch with you. Oh yeah, they can hit me up on LinkedIn, email address, website, spincorpwealth.com, Instagram, Wither12.com, Instagram, Wither12.

Cool. I'm always on the socials and hanging out online. So absolutely happy to talk to anybody. Yeah, shoot them a message, guys. We'll link your stuff below. Thanks for hopping on. Hey, thank you. Absolutely. Check them out, guys.

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