Digital Social Hour - Art Over Numbers: My Journey as a Musician | Clayton Lisy DSH #1385

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

🎸 *Art Over Numbers: My Journey as a Musician* 🎤 Clayton shares his inspiring story of choosing artistry over chasing numbers in the latest episode of Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! From his transition from hip-hop to rock to his take on authenticity in music, Clayton opens up about the challenges, triumphs, and life as a true artist. 🌟 Discover how passion, creativity, and staying true to yourself can lead to a fulfilling career. Clayton talks about his unique approach to fashion, his commitment to his craft, and why he believes art should always come first. 🖌️ Plus, he shares his thoughts on AI in music, his admiration for Prince, and what it truly means to be an artist today. This episode is packed with valuable insights, personal anecdotes, and moments that will leave you inspired. Don’t miss out! Watch now and subscribe for more insider secrets. 📺 Hit that subscribe button and stay tuned for more eye-opening stories on the Digital Social Hour with Sean Kelly! 🚀 Join the conversation and let us know—what does art mean to you? 🎶✨ CHAPTERS: 00:00 - Intro 00:27 - Clayton's Style Tips 04:58 - Today's Sponsor 06:28 - Discovering Authentic Restaurants 10:00 - Notion Sponsorship 10:54 - AI and Creative Jobs 18:09 - AI vs Human Lyrics 20:10 - Brain Surgery Insights 22:05 - Addressing Physical Issues 23:58 - Blood Circulation Explained 25:12 - Passions Beyond Work 32:53 - Hip-Hop to Rock Transition 33:00 - Authenticity in Rap Life 33:54 - No Snitching Culture in Hip-Hop 36:00 - Music Industry Fabrication 40:52 - Understanding 360 Deals 43:14 - Prioritizing Art in Music 46:15 - Achievement Reflections 49:10 - Identity and Success Metrics 52:16 - Upcoming Album Release 52:41 - Final Thoughts 54:00 - Outro APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://www.digitalsocialhour.com/application BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] GUEST: Clayton Lisy https://www.instagram.com/claytonthomasofficial https://www.instagram.com/ghostluvme https://www.youtube.com/ ⁨@ReversePathogen⁩ https://open.spotify.com/artist/6IAD8C2NCYddGZjBapx9AR?si=i_EZhZuMSdyLD9N0hEYDZw SPONSORS: KINSTA: https://kinsta.com/dsh NOTION: https://www.notion.com/ LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ The views and opinions expressed by guests on Digital Social Hour are solely those of the individuals appearing on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the host, Sean Kelly, or the Digital Social Hour team. While we encourage open and honest conversations, Sean Kelly is not legally responsible for any statements, claims, or opinions made by guests during the show. Listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions and consult professionals for advice where appropriate. Content on this podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only and should not be considered legal, medical, financial, or professional advice. Digital Social Hour works with participants in sponsored media and stays compliant with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulations regarding sponsored media. #ad #overcomingcreativeblocks #artisticdevelopment #artisticgrowth #musictheory #creativeconfidence

Not that I'm like, whatever, like even like with women mistreating women and stuff and then like they're awkward around women or they couldn't get women without money or wearing chains or any of this kind of stuff and I'm like when you can just talk to women and whether they're like, like women don't want to have sex too it's crazy like I'm pretty sure they do. And we're all here right? How do we get here? You know what I mean? How do we get here? You know what I mean? Okay guys got music artist here today Clayton. How's it going my man? Love the outfit. Good, thank you. Really unique hat and everything going on.

Yeah. You got a stylist? I style myself. I've had people want me to style them before back when I was younger and I just uh... I never did it really. Yeah, that's impressive. It's not easy to think of a stuff like this you know. It's a lot easier with money than without money. I think people like but then yeah so and it's just trying to pair the right things you know a lot of people they dress really corny that were like they look like suitcases you know

like they wear like big like patterned like Gucci jackets and stuff but that looks like the same like like the bag, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I might as well just you know have a handle on the top of their head. Yeah these days fashion's pretty important with social media I feel like. Um I think it's oh yeah I think it's always been important though in a sense like like whenever you saw like I'm such a big fan like old rock music anybody like Bowie or anybody like that or Mick Jagger or anything they always like if you see old interviews of them, they never looked like

Frumpy one time it always looked like kind of like They were spending money on clothes to my opinion. I don't know. Yeah. No, I could see that I'm already messing up Now even like pro athletes though, they're getting recorded walking in the stadium now and they got to look good. Yeah, that's huge Yeah, yeah a lot of them shop where I shop because I'm tall and then they like Take up you got to get to the store before they wake up Mmm, is all your shit cost them pretty much because you're so tall and got a unique frame I guess?

No, because of the all, actually the pro athletes coming in trying to dress like better has like helped me in the last like probably five, ten years to dress like probably like ten years ago I weighed a lot less and it was like I had to like so it's easier to like get into stuff but now with like pro athletes being like so fashionable it's like it's been pretty easy to find clothes believe it or not because it makes so much big oversized stuff because they know like oh an NFL player is gonna buy it or this basketball player is gonna buy it I know one store I shop at me and this certain basketball player is gonna buy it. I know one store I shop at, me and this certain basketball player are like similar size. So if he doesn't buy it, I will. You're just swapping clothes with him.

Kinda, sometimes getting stuff that they're even gonna sell to him, but then he just like doesn't show up or is he? Yeah. I'm not gonna mention who, cause I feel like. He doesn't wanna be put on blast? Well, no, I like... He doesn't want to be put on blast? Well, no, I don't think the store wants to be put on blast, because they've sold me stuff that like...

They were like, well, we were really going to sell it to him, but like, we kind of like you better, because you come in more consistently, and you're like, you're honestly like nicer to us and stuff. So I'm like, all right. And then I wore this shirt out that night, and I was like worried. I thought, I'm like, if he goes to the same restaurant as me and sees me wearing the shirt. He was gonna buy I

was like I'm nervous I was like just sweating bullets in the restaurant just like Like what if what if this and he because it was a nice enough restaurant where I'm like, you know There's chance that like if he's in town and he's already here He might come by and go to the same place and I'm screwed. Damn. Yeah, but it didn't happen. That's good. Well, Vegas that would happen. Everyone goes to the same casinos, but I feel like LA's a bit more spread out, right?

It is, but people still kind of... It's like spread out, but a lot of celebrities go to the same places. And they don't really... The nicest, the best restaurants are the restaurants you wouldn't expect. celebrities go to like the same places and they don't really the nicest the best restaurants are like the restaurants you wouldn't expect so it's kind of like it's like strange like a lot of celebrities would go to like all the hype places but the hype places really like the food is mid yeah I mean compared to like the price of it yeah and that's how it works with restaurants

it's inauthentic. Yeah. Whenever there's high quality restaurants, it's not the name brand spots. Yeah. It's the mom and pop. They'll have just also like a lot of Japanese fusion restaurants.

And then you can go to Japan Town, which is Satel. Or like, Little Tokyo is kind of honestly gentrified now. But Satel is still, um, like, really authentic. And if you go there, like, the Japanese restaurants, they are just like, you like, I feel like I never have to go to Japan in my life. Damn, it's not good. As far as food wise, I mean, people that I've even known. Shout out to today's sponsor, Kinsta. If you run anything online, an e-com brand,

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i've gone there who've like Been gone to the restaurant with me are like this is the same. Holy crap so I mean that's what I hear and and you know, it's good because all the other people in the restaurant like Are asian people so you just see like all asian people and you're like Like i've seen too many white people black people any kind of just see like all Asian people and you're like, like I see too many white people, black people, any kind of other people, like in an Asian restaurant, I start getting nervous because I'm like, I don't feel like I'm at the right one, you know? Like, you know, because it's just, you know,

if Japanese people aren't eating the Japanese food, you know, there's something up, you know? 100%. I do the same thing with Indian restaurants. Oh yeah, that goes too. Yeah too yeah yeah I'm the only white person in the one I go to every time I'm there it's 40 50 Indian people all the owners are Indian they don't even speak English and I get looked at so hard when I go in there but that's how I want it with Indian food well that's how you know it's good yeah it's not like I do you, why just eat something else, you know? Yeah.

So. Absolutely. Food is a big part of my lifestyle. I've, unfortunately it's a big part of mine too. It's like one of my, probably my biggest battle, you know, especially being an artist, you know, it's like. Yeah. You're on the road all the time.

Well, they just expect you to also be like really thin and stuff. And I feel like you don't have a problem with that. But me, I've fluctuated weight more than probably something that these fighters you've had on here, trust me. Like I've gone from weighing 185 to 300 to back down and stuff back and forth pretty quickly. Just cause like I started my career with 185, gone up to 300, been around 230, all kinds of stuff. As I played college football around like three something,

but like, you know, you just, you fluctuate weight a lot easier. Like with the, you know, you're pretty tall, I feel like you're tall, me, you're taller, I couldn't even tell. I'm 6'6, what are you, 6'5? Somewhere around there. So it's like, it's like, you know, it's just easier to put on weight.

Like sometimes I feel like you don't notice it as quick. It takes a couple of months and then you hop on that scale and you're like, oh. As I've gotten older, I've definitely lost a step. Like right now I'm 195, which is the most I've weighed in a while. That's still good though. Yeah. Like for your height, that's perfect.

That's like, once you start getting into like, cause you'll just notice like, like inflammation is like the number one. That it's all disease and inflammation from what? Like people tell me. So it's like, if all disease is inflammation, it's like, you gotta think like inflammation, all that stuff is stored in fat

and carrying too much fat on your body, being disproportioned. And we're probably like, modern society, one of the first people that have really carried all this fat. Cause you think about it, everybody used to just walk everywhere or before like industrialism and stuff and like mercantilism, everybody had a trade, right? Like blacksmiths, fishermen, all this shit.

So it was all, it was all active stuff, right? And then now it's like, all jobs are kind of like passive. Like we're very like cerebral, very computer heavy, very like that. Like even if I'm playing an instrument or singing, I might be standing or sitting for 10, 12 hours, you know, it's not, it's not really a, it's not the same as like what our ancestors had to do. Yeah.

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integrate seamlessly, and if you don't, this is a a great business start. Try Notion mail free at notion.com slash DSH all lowercase that's notion.com slash DSH and using our link helps support the show. I think part of it's the food but part of it's also like the way we've like our lives have become you know or just not as involved and more sedentary. Yeah. I mean, look how I'm making a living. I'm sitting in a chair podcasting all day. Yeah. I didn't want to like,

I feel like now like a dick saying that, but like I sit in a chair a lot too, to play guitar and stuff. I acknowledge it. I'm aware of it. I have to take 10,000 steps a day outside of podcasting. Like I have to dedicate time, but I think it's only gonna get worse with AI

because now we're gonna become more reliant on that. People are gonna get lazier and lazier. Yeah, I mean, I've had, it depends on like what your job is. So like, I don't, I think it's gonna be hard for people to replace anything that's creative because I've tested AI itself just to say like, hey, I write a

song and then tested like and wrote a song at the same time AI and then like kind of mapped both songs and there's programs I can write songs and stuff and like I'll smack AI like that's for now forever no forever it's gonna get better I'll stand on that I'll give you this pinky if not Really, I'm making 30 years and won't and 30 years. I'll mail you this I Swear like on everything like it's not cuz it can't It's like there's something like you've heard the whole thing about like cars, right? And like how like the self-driving thing is like doesn't work cuz like humans have the natural intuition To like know if somebody's going to swerve over or not before they even put on a blinker before they even turn the wheel or anything.

We're naturally connected and stuff. AI is just a compilation of our connections and everything throughout that we built up, but it's not actually our live connection as of right now. So unless they make a different form of AI that I'm not aware of that they could be developing, but as this AI now, if it progressed, I think yes, will it replace a lot of office jobs? Will it replace a lot of, you know, tech things, a lot of things that honestly, I'm not too versed in those situations, but I think it will replace a lot of those things,

but creators and artists, I think is the last thing it's going to replace. I mean, I just have seen like the use of AI even in music, and it's been very corny to me. It's been very obvious. It's been, it's just, like I said, it's derivative, because all it can do is derive from things. And people say all music is derivative, and it's like to an extent,

but it's still a lot of like, I could give you sheet music for a song. Like I'm classically trained for making good guitar. I could give you sheet music for a song. And if you, you can follow the directions and everything, but the feeling of it, one ensemble is gonna play it different than the next. Because there's so much feeling in it. So if you take a band, you're like, I want to sound exactly like this band.

How's AI going to feel something when I've had deep talks with AI when it admits it doesn't have feelings. Yet. And so, yeah, yeah, it doesn't. But if it does have feelings, is it just replicating our feelings? You know what I mean? So it's like, is it just a replication of human feelings? You know? So that's really what the question is. So I have no fear of AI. I think AI is going to be a useful tool. I think there's going to be artificially intelligent beings walking around that are very helpful

to society and going to further progress. I don't view an AI takeover like some Terminator type shit. I'm not worried about that. I mean, maybe eventually there could be something like that, but in the next 30 years, no, not in my lifetime for sure not. It's moving fast though, man. I'll say this, I just went to Miami.

I saw two AIs that kind of blew my mind. So the first one was I checked into my hotel using AI. It provided blank hotel room keys and I scanned it on the machine myself and AI checked me in. Second one was at the airport on the way back. So you know how people normally push the wheelchairs when there's overweight people on the flight? Now that's AI. So the wheelchairs are moving by themselves and picking

people up on the plane. We don't push wheelchairs or check people in hotels do you? So you don't gotta worry. Well yeah I'm just saying though it's moving fast. It starts with that and then it's gonna keep getting better. I get it but it's not gonna be able to put the feeling in music that people put feeling into stuff. And it's not going to be- Yeah, music's going to be hard, but there's a lot of fear in film and entertainment with the writing.

I mean, yeah. And I think that the easiest way with that is like, actors have unions and all that kind of stuff. They just need to kind of all put their foot down against that and maybe like you know not be such like kind of like be a little bit more open to different kind of you know like right now there's kind of like okay you got to do this this and this to be successful in Hollywood i'm not going to really name what those things are but everybody knows what those are you got to jump through this hoop, this hoop, and this hoop.

You gotta act like you like this, this, and this. So maybe if they kind of step outside of that and create something, they're like, okay, instead of just like us rebelling against, you know, like some political shit or this, or us feeling a certain way trying to align this way, maybe we should actually take our time and rebel against something that matters, like AI that's actually gonna might take our jobs. Because if it does take the jobs, but I mean, I don't know.

I mean, to my knowledge, once again, I've never written a script. I've never shot a movie, so I don't know. I'm sure it's gonna replace some camera man. I'm sure it's gonna replace some cameraman. I'm sure it's gonna replace a lot of lighting people or all kinds of stuff, gaffers, different things like robots and things with intelligence will be able to replace that, but I just don't know

if it's gonna be able to make a great movie. I don't know if AI could've, like, you ever seen that movie, like, Enemy or anything like that? That movie's like I don't know if I could have like like you ever seen a movie like enemy or anything like that like movies like crazy it's like I like or what's the one where the ladies like stuck on the boat and stuff keeps repeating I don't know if you see oh I haven't seen that one but I know what you're talking about that that movie of fuck mess with your head I don't know what a lot of curse or not I don't know okay yeah sometimes he's stuck in a time loop it's I'm glad I don't remember the name of the movie. I don't know if I'm allowed a curse or not. I don't know. Okay, yeah, sometimes. He's stuck in a time loop.

It's, I'm glad I don't remember the name of the movie because I shouldn't even recommend it to people. Like it's like one of those where you're just like, I just don't know if AI is capable of doing that ever because there's so much human emotion and human fear. Now you got to think we do so much things out of fear then too. Now, you can program fear into something, but fears are natural things from being born and then going through stuff. So unless AI has a way to replicate birth and to make itself have almost this false birth,

and this false traumas and stuff, even so much of music has come through trauma and art and comes through that. So I just that's the main reason why I just I just don't see it being able to replicate all of the artistic aspects of humanity. No I agree I agree I think maybe on the lyrics they can write some clever lyrics but the actual emotion behind everything that would be hard to replicate. Yeah I would have I mean I would be hard to replicate. Yeah, I would have, I mean, I would hope it could probably write lyrics, but I think that'd still probably be,

like, derivative of something, you know? Like, it would just be, it would be something that's like, like, to my knowledge, it can only take from what is there, you know? Whereas I've heard lyrics that are stuff that, like I'm a huge fan of Libertines, and I was joking around with AI, I was like, write me a Libertines song, because I was just like, I just want to see what it comes up with.

That did not sound or had anything like Libertines lyrics. Like, I was like, it kind of got like the essence of what they're about, but it wasn't anything like, like, anywhere close. And it's because like, yeah, the lead singer was, or not lead singer, but lead guitarist, one of the singers literally was doing mass amounts of heroin, drugged up and sleeping on chairs and couches and shit. Like, you can't replicate that. What is AI going to do? Shoot up heroin now for 20 years? and sleeping on chairs and couches and shit. You can't replicate that.

What is AI going to do? Shoot up heroin now for 20 years and make a good song? I mean, you know, it's got to replicate a lot of feelings that people did and a lot of trauma and a lot of things that people overcame that I just don't see that happening. You know, me personally, I'm just saying, unless we find a way, like brain surgery, they gotta keep you awake

because we don't know enough about the brain. So you gotta think it's still humans programming this AI. So if we don't know enough about the brain, that they gotta keep you awake during brain surgery. The moment they can put you under during brain surgery, I'll be worried about AI. The moment they gotta still have, like if you play guitar,

they'll have you playing guitar while they're working on your brain. Just in case they hit something wrong, because they don't know what all the stuff in there does. I didn't know that. So when you get a brain surgery, you have to be awake? Yeah, 100%. Wow.

I just thought they knocked you out. No, I'm pretty sure of this and maybe somebody will correct me and I'm open to that. But yeah, they keep you awake during brain surgery. So I've seen videos where a guy was playing guitar because they don't know what everything in our own brain does.

So when you think about it, the AI is a replication of human brain, right? So they don't know everything that the brain does. So if the AI is a replication of the human brain and we don't know everything that the brain does. So if the AI is a replication of the human brain and we don't know everything that the brain is, yet we're the ones programming that artificial brain, it's gonna have holes in there. So that's the thing.

So, I mean, I think that's why people say like, yeah, it's moving fast. It's gonna be able to replace jobs where people don't actively use their brain or don't have to think outside the box or there's been a lack of, especially I think in this country, people, you know,

what is like humble, but like humbility? Humility? Humility. There's a lack of humility, so a lot of people don't know like, oh let me smile and have good service and everything. They could probably program a robot to smile better than a human right now.

You know what I mean? And if I'm sure like, I don't know, like some hotels you check in, it'll be a nice hotel. Somebody would be sitting there like, all sour, his face. It's like, come on, like, you know, smile, you know? It's like, you know, like what else? Like, I mean, I'm used to European.

We naturally don't smile. And I still like, I remind myself, you know, I put in like a little smile clock in my head, like, all right, boom, smile, you know? Okay, bust out a smile just so people don't think you're angry, you know? So you're not getting a neurolink anytime soon. I don't know about that because I got other like

physical issues with my ears and stuff. So I'm like, I wouldn't be. I don't think I'd be. You got tinnitus or hearing loss? I got like SCDS and Menears and tinnitus and all that stuff. Yeah I got tinnitus in my left ear. But I'm about to do Regeno-Kind. Is that stem cells? What is that? I've done stem cell injections through my eardrum. Oh my god. Which I do not don't do that. That sounds painful dude.. Well, they can only numb one side. So yeah, it's, it's like, it's one of the most painful things ever. Cause when they break on through to the other side, you know, shout out the

doors, they like you. I mean, it literally feels like somebody stabbing your brain and, and they got to put that needle in there for a while. stabbing your brain. And they got to put that needle in there for a while. And I've like, I literally see like my feet like twitching like in pain and like just like, like you know like those forced tears of pain where you can't even like stop them? Yeah, yeah. Like, like you know what I mean? It's like, like, it's like plucking a nose hair type thing. It's like, it's like that just starts streaming and I'm just like, I'm, it's nose hair type thing. It's like, it's like that just starts streaming.

I'm just like, I'm, it's not even like crying. It's just like that pain. So that, that, and I've had that. And the problem with stem cells is that they're just so gate kept. So they're so expensive, especially in this country. Yeah. And the Regenacondin is basically they take out your blood and then they add like protein back into it and kind of like rebalance stuff.

I know Dana White got it done in Germany. It was made by this doctor in Germany and it can help with all kinds of different inflammation things because most diseases or most problems with the body either stem from inflammation or inflammation itself. So from what I'm told, you know, at least once again, I'm not a doctor. So it's like, you know, I've heard that from reputable doctors. Okay, good. So, you know, at least somebody can buy at least a reputable people can back me up. Cause the last thing I wanted to do is give medical advice with no college degree,

you know, probably not the best idea, but damn. So that I've heard of that. It's like blood cycling. It also removes the heavy metals from your bloods and like the vaccine stuff and the parasites, right? well I've never been vaccinated well you got the childhood ones I don't know if I did really I don't know like I don't know which ones but I know I don't think I might not even got I don't think I got to like chickenpox any of that stuff. Oh wow so your parents were pretty aware

back in the day then? Um we Eastern Europeans, so not necessarily aware. We just like, I didn't go to eye doctor until I was 28, you know, right? And then they would say like, you need glasses. That's pretty late. So like, you know, just like, you know, just different priorities. It's more of like, shut up and work type philosophy. So versus like, oh, I'm sick. Well, no, you aren't.

Yeah. Kind of. That's just kind of like the whole, like our tradition is just like work then die. Similar to Asians. Yeah. I mean, not far away from it. So basically similar. Yeah.

It's just you work, then you die. That's just kind of what we believe in, and kind of what I believe in. I'm just gonna work and then die, and then that's it. So you don't have any passion outside of work right now? No, none. You serious? I'm serious, I don't do anything.

Like you don't do any hobbies for fun, like video games or? Well, I played like video games before um but I'm not like they kind of like they passed me by you know like I don't know Forkknife and um what's it called? Call of Duty. Bro that shit they move so fast now like I played like Modern Warfare 2 yeah and um. They're on like Black Ops 5 I think now yeah like I wouldn't even know I think the furthest I ever got all like Black Ops 5 I think now. Yeah like I wouldn't even know. I think the furthest I ever got was like Black Ops 2 or something. And then the only one I could probably still play occasionally and I think I could have

almost gone pro and it was Halo. Because I could probably still pop on Halo today and like just go crazy. I feel like I could have gone pro but maybe that's just like a delusion in my head. That was the one when you're in a car and you kick soccer balls. Oh, rocket league. Yeah. Yeah. That one, I feel like I could, I don't know if they have pro rocket league. They do. They do? Yeah. Okay. So you do stuff outside of work. I don't do that really anymore, but because my work takes up so much time, but if I'm saying,

I feel like I could go pro in those if I had to go pro in a video game I don't do I'm trying to think of what I do outside of work. Family? All my family's mostly dead besides my dad's so not really and then like or they're just like live in Cleveland no offense to Cleveland I mean they probably won't watch this so it it's fine. It's a shit hole. I've been there, yeah. It wasn't my favorite. Yeah, it's not that nice. So I just don't really, I've even lived there before, so I wouldn't really go there. And then like, so no, not really, no family.

I don't really have any friends I hang out with or anything. Like, I don't really believe in that. Really? Especially being in LA, cause I had like one dude who messaged me. I was all into my music back when I was a solo artist. And he was like, messaged me, calling me, calling me. He's like, trying to call me crazy. Like, not crazy, but calling me crazy amount of times. And sends me a text and this it's like

December 23rd or sometime around then like and then like sure enough like I hear on the news later he murdered suicide his girlfriend and her two kids holy crap and I was just thinking in my mind I'm like that's why I don't got friends I'm like you don't know who your my mind, I'm like, that's why I don't got friends. I'm like, you don't know who your friends are within LA. I'm like, especially, I'm going to wait until after this Diddy trial. And then I'll let you know if I have any friends. Until then, I don't know. Anybody, you see me in a picture with somebody, I don't know who they are.

Until I see who, I never went to, like I said, thank God I'm not the partying type. So I never really went to any parties, not even in high school. I never went to a single high school party. I didn't go to prom, I didn't go to, um... Like... Frap parties in college? I did do that because I played football, so like, um... You could just like walk into them when you play football.

Yeah. And the frat people are nice actually. I mean I know they get a bad rep and stuff, but they're actually nice. Well, nice to you. You're on the football team. Okay. They're not nice to regular guys. Okay, maybe not.

I don't know this. I don't know. I just like, but they, I felt good energy when I was there. And obviously like I had like teammates and stuff in college and high school and stuff that you kind of pile around with. You know, Florida, we just put fireworks in mailboxes and stuff and just shout at people, throw stuff at them. Yeah, y'all Floridians are different.

Yeah, I kind of realized when I was saying out loud, like maybe some of this stuff isn't like the best to say, but it's like, it's just kind of like youthful stuff. Like, yeah, we just would like, we used to just like put like M 80s and mailboxes and they would just like get like bigger, like what's that not explode, but implode where it gets like, you know what I'm saying? So and then you just put the string, you light it, and you just will do like a whole, the goal is to get like a whole street for like everybody's mailboxes

fucked up. I don't know if that's a crime or not. I don't think so. Yeah. I used to ding-dong ditch. That's not a crime or anything. No, but then I started stealing mail, and that's kind of where I drew the line. Yeah, I guess it depends what you stole. I mean, it's illegal, right? So I'm like, shit. Is it? I don't know. They called the cops once, I was like, I'm it depends what you stole. I mean it's illegal right? So I'm like, shit.

They called the cops once, so I was like, I'm done doing this. Did they know it was you? I got away. I was a kid, I ran away. But it was dumb, like I was stealing out of the mailbox random letters and stuff that didn't even matter. Yeah, that is dumb, but I feel like part of that is like growing up. You know, like if you don't do that, if you don't do that as a child, you're gonna end up like, I don't know. You gotta get it out of you.

We all got that little demon or whatever, that bad voice in our head. Like I accidentally burned a public restroom to the ground it was on the news. Holy shit. And like, I don't know if he even knows about that. But that was when I was like young enough that I think the statute of limitations is out on that.

Allegedly, allegedly, you know, I may know of who burned it, may not. I don't know if they can link that, but it was on the news. And it was just cause we just lit a bunch of fireworks in a trash can and just threw a bunch of paper towels in there. Why don't I say we, me and my friend watched. So it's just not really.

But yeah, just, I don't know. So like, I don't know. You just see that shit in Florida. Like people would steal shit from like cars and stuff. Usually it's just like sunglasses and stuff. I never did that. Cause you know, what if someone knew though, like cause it's so sunny, I felt bad. You know, it was always your reason.

Yeah. And also I don't like to like really, I never really like, like robbed anybody too many times. You know, like I never really felt like. Only one time was enough. I can't, I'm not, if I ever did, I would never talk about that. You know, I try to keep a clean image. The other stuff I can kind of talk about it

cause it's like makeshift, but if I ever did, which I wouldn't think I would be the type of like makeshift, but if I ever did which I Wouldn't think I would be the type of person you can look at me. I don't look you know this hat. It's and you're pretty big man You're pretty intimidating. No Bulls don't discriminate 300 pounds everybody got guns in Florida. You saw bulls don't discriminate, you know 9 millimeter for anything will take me down the same as I take down anybody you know I mean same as take down somebody five nine one fifty just might need a few more shots maybe it depends on how well they're placed you know you know to in the center mass one in the head to finish off if anything is

whatever I mean hey 50 cents or about what 20 shots something crazy it wasn't as that many but it was something crazy it was actually like oh well nah he he watches everything so I don't want to start anything with him but it was like the same amount as like 2Pac but they added more shots to it to like make him to try to make it like different make him tougher um just to try to like make him to try to make it like different make him tougher um just to try to like differentiate it because I didn't want overlap of the story you know yeah kind of give him his own story I think so I think that's the only thing that's like that I know about him that's kind of a little bit fabricated you know

but not to throw shade no I think so many people know about that and he has so many hits songs who cares and it's made so many great business deals and everything. So I don't think he cares now about it, but probably 20 years ago, cared if somebody said something about it. I know you transitioned from hip hop to rock was just the safety aspect, any reason of it? Like people don't care.

You don't care about that stuff? Honestly, you'd be surprised about how many rappers were, with the exception of a few that really are like, lived that life, you'd be surprised. Like, I'm not even going to say the artist, but there was one time one rapper who talks all kinds of crazy gang shit when he got in the room with me. Couldn't even look me in the eyes, bro. Really? Literally was like looking out at the floor.

And then was, so he's talked about like, women and stuff and everything. So I'm like, we were in Atlanta. So I'm like, I'll just have like, you know, some like strippers come through and get naked in the studio and have some money for him to throw and all this stuff and like try to show them a good time. Because I'm like, Oh, I figured like roll the red carpet for this kid. And sure enough, like he was even awkward around the women and stuff. And I'm like, wow, I think everything he said is cap. And it turned out later that kid actually did snitch on another rapper or something.

So I was kind of right. So all the music we did just got like muted. Like, you know, because it was like not that like I really care about that kind of stuff. But in hip hop, you can't really like... No snitching in hip hop. And I don't really like, you know, I don't really believe in like, I'm a borderline like anarchist when it comes to the kind of that stuff. Like I don't think half this stuff should be crime.

So I'm like, I miss, I like glorify like the old west like days, you know, where people could just shoot out if they had a problem, you know, know, they met in a certain place and made sure like, you know, everybody kind of shut the doors and they met in like the middle of town where it felt like there could be nobody caught in the crossfire and stuff. So I feel like that, there's some beauty to that because that's like, or you know,

or like even going back to like founding fathers, tough people dueling and all kinds of things like that. Like they made sure no innocent people got hurt, no women and children. But at the same time, if they had a problem that they felt like was worth taking a life over, which I've never felt that way about any problem,

but they'd never got to the point where it's like now, people just pull up and do shooting stuff, like, you know, pull up and then, you know, innocent people get shot mainly because they had bad aim. And number two, cause it stuff, like, you know, pull up and then, you know, innocent people get shot, mainly because they have bad aim. And number two, because it's just like, they're pulling up to all kinds of bad places. So I was never supportive of that.

I don't like violence when, if you haven't lived a violent life, I understand if you've lived a violent life and you're talking your truth and everything, but I don't like this fabricated violence that a lot of these rappers sell or fabricated drug use or fabricated, you know, you know, not that I'm like, whatever,

like even like with women mistreating women and stuff, and then like they're awkward around women or they couldn't get women without money or wearing chains or any of this kind of stuff. And I'm like, when you can just talk to women and whether they're like, like women don't want to have sex too. It's crazy. Like, I'm pretty sure they do. And we're all here, right? Oh, how do we get here? You know what I mean? Like, so it's like, it's one of those things that, you know,

I think just, there was a lot of hypocrisy in hip hop. That's not really what made me leave, but I think it was definitely a deciding force. And then every time I kept it real it seemed to bite me in the ass So me not pretending to be from the hood me not pretending to be a gangster me not pretending to be gang Affiliated all that stuff me not like like you got to think about like it worked out for people like I had somebody recently like talk about like how much less speed bumps somebody like Tommy Hilfiger's son has had in the industry. He did it when MySpace was. You've got to think, that's Tommy Hilfiger's fucking son.

What gangster life is he living? And he's making all kinds of West Coast music about this and that and everything. There's no issues, let alone these new little white kids who are wildin' out and don't live half of that life. And not even white kids, there's black kids that do it too. And tons of shit, all these little kids are liars. And it's like, you know, and me, because I wouldn't lie and I wouldn't put the lies into my music, then they come after me and try to fabricate my background or try to go into things and pull me apart.

And I'm like, okay, because I won't lie. That's the problem. Like, what? Should have I lied? Like, I couldn't lie if I tried. So to me, it's like I've always been honest. That's like one of my things. Like, that's like when I said like, oh, if AI does that, like, like, trust me, it's like, I've always been honest. That's like one of my things. Like, that's like when I said like, oh, if AI does that, like, trust me, in 30 years, you might get a pinky in the mail.

Like, my bad, but you know. By then you could probably regrow it with the technology. Yeah, by then it might not even be a thing, but notice I chose a pinky that I don't need to play guitar. So, you know, I didn't pick the best one. Don't worry, I'll be fine without it. But it's like, you know, I didn't pick the best one. Don't worry. I'm, I'll be fine without it. But it's like, you know, it's just, there's a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of lying.

I think people are waking up to it now. But- Hip hop numbers are going down. For sure. I mean, they're so fabricated. It's crazy. I mean, you can see like, I mean, I've done deep dives into stuff.

Well, just like, people don't even know what, like, like, now people start to talk about other people, so I feel comfortable saying that, but like, people didn't know monthly listeners were monthly impressions. So like, you know, Spotify works like a webpage. It's just a webpage, and the app is a webpage. So, it's how many people come to your webpage.

So, it has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually, it has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually have. It has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually, it has nothing to do with how many listeners you actually have. It has everything to do with how many people come to your web page. So the listeners mean nothing. So you can fabricate that the same way people have fabricated anything on the internet as far as how many, how much traction they can have coming to their web page. It's not a hard thing to fabricate. And then labels they can have coming to their webpage. That's not a hard thing to fabricate. And then labels, they all have systems where they have rooms like this or even like this size where it might have

a thousand or two thousand phones just running the songs, you know, 12 hours on, 12 hours off. And basically that just streams the song, gets it up to these artificial crazy numbers, and that helps promote it because when people see that, and then they have different like IPs and different routers hooked up to these artificial crazy numbers and that helps promote it because when people see that and then they have different like IPs and different routers hooked up to each of the phones that shows like, you know, okay, this set of phones is coming from Atlanta,

this set of phones is coming from New York, this set of phones is coming from Los Angeles, this ones are coming from Ohio, this coming from Miami, like, so all that stuff, so, and they just run up the numbers and that's how they've kind of kept hip hop surviving, but you got to think about all the overhead of that. It's a lot of overhead. I mean all those are you know

iPhones like what they spend in at least 150 an iPhone at least these days more well they use older I mean I can use the newest stuff They gotta have them permanently charged in then they got it You know pay all the people to switch the phones off because if the phones weren't too long It kind of runs a red flag and they could have some stuff rolled back. That's why you've seen a lot of artists who've had a lot of sales, like rolled back recently or like had their sales audited to where it's been like, oh, they sold.

And then it said they sold this and went back and all that kind of stuff. So or you another thing you just seen a lot of like, I'm sure you've seen like the dip off between like people used to sell a million units in a week and when there was physical sales and it relied on digital sales, there was still CDs It was easy. They would just send people to like all the Best Buy's or Like I don't know record stores were still a thing and they would just send them to all that place and they'd have them clear out the shelves of the records and Buy all that stuff and just send different employees around the globe and know where they're going and just buy up a bunch of the units. And invest money in that and then that kind of made it seem like, okay, we hit a million and then you hit billboard and then people kind of, you know, people are followers naturally.

So, you know, people like to follow what's successful. So naturally they're like, okay, oh shit, that sold a million. That means it must be good. You know, okay, that's sold 500,000. That means it must be good. So all these labels have been doing that forever. I've never partnered with a label, which is part of the reason why I think my success has been somewhat mediocre, you know, because it's like, I just never wanted to be a part of the machine.

You know, even being able to transition from doing one type of music to doing another under a completely different name would have never happened with the label. The label would have said, okay, you at least got to drop this music under this name and we're going to still shoot the videos the same way. We can't lose your, you know, old aesthetic, you know, and we can't lose your old fans.

Well, even if it's something new, like it would be like if you wanted to do something completely different, like you could just do that, you know? But imagine if there was somebody telling you like, oh no, you can't do that. Like it could be a side thing to it, or it could be a whole new chapter of your life. So it's just like, you know,

you just don't want to be controlled by some guy and be essentially like a slave, you know, owned. I mean, it's- These 360 deals are ruthless. I mean, people are, I know people that are signed them when they were 18 and they're still signed into them at 30 Artists like that like I'm not an artist that I've even worked with are still have to answer to their daddies You feel me no amount of money would no amount of money

They don't they don't there ain't amount of money that can get certain artists out of it I already saw a guarantee you've listened to. And people I've worked with. And they still gotta listen to their daddy, their daddy who clear their songs. Crazy. So like, you know, they still got a daddy that tell them, hey, you know, I feel like this, da, da, da, da, da, da.

Like they can tell them, go to their room. You feel me? They can tell them, hey, you got a time out. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I'm taking this away from you. I'm taking away the PJ. You know, like they can tell them whatever, you know? So they still got to listen to that.

So I don't want to have that. You know what I mean? I wanted to just listen to myself and God and that's it. I'd rather make way less and be on my own, you know? That's the way I saw it. I saw it as art, like Van Gogh, nobody, you know, I don't know if this is accurate, but I've heard that he never even sold a painting, never knew he was going to be successful, never knew any of that.

And it's like, and still yet his paintings are hanging in places. So sometimes art's not appreciated right away. And that's okay. Like, so I view it, if you're going to, especially as an artist, if you're taking the path of art and expecting like money to come from it, then you're not taking the right path. Because it's not about the money. It's about the art. The art comes first always.

So that's why, like when you say, oh, do you have any hobbies or anything? No, because the art comes first always. My hobby is perfecting the art. Every day perfecting the art. Figuring out a way I can get better every day. Playing guitar every day. Working on new song ideas every day. Because that's what I owe the art.

If my whole life is just the art, that's a life worth well lived. If I deviate from that, I've spent time chasing women, chasing this, chasing that. Everything that I've done has just been a deviation from the art. It made the art less like of what it could be. So the art is what it is and I can't deviate from that. And for me to deviate from that is breaking my personal covenant with God

when He made me an artist and gave me the ability to write songs. So it breaks my personal covenant that I have my personal gifts. You know, that's me and my creator, it's basically me saying, you know, like fuck you to the creator. I can't do that. So that's the way I see it. Like, you know, and as an artist is that like,

I can't just, if I'm, you know, people say like to be able to write a song as a gift, there's a lot of artists out there that don't write their songs. I didn't know this. I've written everything I've ever done. So, you know, and people said, like the drummer who drums, we have Josh Freed from the Foo Fighters who drums on the stuff. Excellent drummer. And he said, I'm a prophylitic writer. Like I can just write, ba ba ba ba ba.

Because we're so deep into so many albums that we haven't released on the rock music kick, because I've just written so much. I just keep making more and more and more, to where like, I honestly could stop working for probably four years and still have music to release. Like, cause I'm already like eight albums already into it with only album two about to come out in a little bit. So it's just, that's just,

but that's the way I'm supposed to be like Prince released like 40 something albums. I got a Prince tattoo here. You think Prince had hobbies or was it, you know, like it was just all about like, I knew somebody that worked with him and said, Oh, Prince was egotistical because he would just watch videos of himself on stage. And I explained to her, I was like, no, no, no, he wasn't egotistical. Prince was a genius.

He was watching how he appeared on stage so he could give people the best show. All eyes are on him. He's not thinking it from an ego place. He's thinking it from, how can I give people what they paid for the best show? How can I show them what they came for to see? So when I think about it from that sense, I'm like, you know, he died doing what he

loved to performing until the very end. And that's the way you have to do it as an artist. And if that's not what you're willing to commit to the art, then you're not an artist. You know, and that's, um and that's just how I've seen it. Like, you know, my whole life, I've never wanted to do anything else but just do music. So I feel like I'm privileged to be in this position. I thank God to be in this position.

I think there's never been a scenario that I would have wanted more. So I think about that 10 year old me, right? That you know, like you ever think about like your child's self that they could see you now like whatever. And so the inner child in me tells me, you did it. Like you're here, you're making art. Like this is perfect. Like what are you doing?

Like what are you doing? Like the inner child of me wouldn't have cared to go to a strip club. The inner child of me wouldn't have cared to, you know, oh, if you met this certain whatever in this and pout around with this. The inner child would have just been like, whoa, you're telling me you get to make music

and people actually get to hear it? And some people like it and you get to even go and perform this music and you get to go do this and all this stuff. I'm like, the inner child of me would just, he would geek out. He'd just be like, you did it. This is what we wanted. So when I look at it like that, I'm like,

what could I do? You know, what could I, you know, other than that? So I'm just, I'm just, I feel blessed in a sense of, I haven't had the perfect linear path to success. I haven't had great success in certain things. I haven't, but my success is being able to do what I do. Just being able to do it is a blessing in itself. And that's, I know I sometimes talking about God and stuff

makes people feel comfortable about that. I don't know what you are religiously. But and but you know. I've. I'm not a particular I would say. I'm not a particular religion per se. I would say other than I guess Christian leaning and believing in that. But at the same time

I'm not practicing I don't go to churches and really like I find they squander money You know you seem like shows like righteous gemstones and stuff Like that shit's real like you know it's like they got these mega churches and then the Catholic Church is you know a little problematic for reasons we all know you know like you know the whole You know fucking little kids, you know. Any modern day churches. Yeah, so all religions have their problem, but you want to know what doesn't have its problem?

God itself. And we can all tap into that. We know what's right or wrong. We know what is the right path, the path, you know, to righteousness. We just choose to deviate from that, because we're all human. We're going to make mistakes.

I'm going to make mistakes today, I'll make mistakes. You'll make mistakes. Everybody's going to make mistakes, because that's who we are. We're not made to be perfect. And that's what makes us special too, because through those imperfect moments moments is where we learn. You know?

Yeah. No, I love your mindset, because a lot of artists tie their identity to their numbers that they're getting, their streams and their plays and their followers. I think, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think if they want to feel accomplished and feel proud of what they've done, I think that's beautiful. I think that's beautiful.

But me, myself personally, I don't care. I care enough because I want to always go up and I want things to, like, I think you're either going up or you're going down. So I care from a business sense, right? Cause if I don't, then, you know, I'm not running my business properly, but as tied to what numbers I'm doing. No, if I have an album that's not a commercial success or whatever, that doesn't mean it's not good. That doesn't mean five years from now people won't think

this is the greatest album ever or whatever. They just maybe didn't listen to it, you know? And there's a lot of music out there that I've heard that people may even forgotten or never listened to and you know, so great songs that whatever so it's just I Think yeah a lot of people tie their stuff to that because that's what they have to hang their hat on and if that's what they Have to hang their hat on there's nothing wrong with that. I think that that's still that's a beautiful thing You know like like there, but me myself personally I think You know that's might not be my path. My path might be not number one.

My path might not be Billboard. My path might just be creativity and letting some kind of higher power take over me. When I make music, I make it fast. The songs just come to me. Don't feel like me. Don't feel like, it feels like something else. Somebody else walked in the room

and just, boom, starts taking over hands. It's like you're channeling almost. I don't know, possibly, you know, but it like so much so that like I've made whole albums and then had to go back when I wanted to perform them to like learn how to replay them. Wow. Because I've literally forgot not only the words, the guitar parts that I played, everything. And, or even what guitar I played it on,

because the tone is very different and stuff, depending on the guitar. I don't want to get into too much guitar nerd shit, because if I do, you'll never leave. I'll lose you there, and then I'll lose everybody there, and trust me, because I know this recently, like, even we had Josh Fries in the session, he was trying to say like, oh this guitar solo's so dope. I'm like, that's because it's on a 1963 Jazzmaster,

run through a big month, dah, dah, dah. And then my engineer goes like, he doesn't give a fuck what you fucking played it through. He cares, he's saying the melody of the guitar is dope here. And I'm like, oh, oh, my bad. So I just said, I'll talk guitar nerd shit forever. I feel like, but yeah, I think there's an aspect of channeling with all creativity stuff.

And that's why I think like, can I AI channel? It's like, do androids dream of electric sheep, you know? Like the Philip K. Dick shit. So I'm excited to see if we ever get to that point of AI. And if we do, then I think that's the next stage in evolution and it's like, you know, I think that's the next stage in evolution and it's like you know and if that is the next stage in evolution and we are passed by then we just have to accept we're dinosaurs you know what I mean and that's fine that's okay we'll see what happens when's the next album dropping is

it this year I think the 16th of whatever this month is of me That's next week right because today's the 10th Yeah, me okay, I just say I got to start from the beginning and count them out time flies man We'll link it below though. We'll drop this episode around then anything else you want to close off with here man. Um and then anything else you wanna close off with here, man? That's a good question. I think like if you're maybe like a message to like musicians in itself, cause I feel like I'm a musician. I'll just say, just don't give up, you know?

Like I think like no matter how many people I just, or anybody creative, just don't give up, you know? Like I don't wanna sound like I'll preach you, but just like, don't, don't give up. Just don't. Just keep going. I mean, and something's going to work out. And even if it doesn't, you know, it's like,

it's like the, it's that Theodore Roosevelt, the honor lies to the man who's in the arena or whatever. I don't, I can't quote the whole thing, but it's basically look up. You'll love it. And it's, uh, and it just basically said like, you know, and, and, you know, he'll never know, uh, what those cold and timid souls who know neither no victory nor defeat and it's like, you know, so it's like, you know, the people on the outside can say whatever they want, but even if you lose

Or win doesn't matter. Just don't give up. There's nothing wrong with losing There's a huge problem not trying I'd rather lose than not try every day Well, dude, it's been awesome. We'll love to do a part two one of these days. Thanks for coming on I appreciate you having me. Thank you. We'll link your socials. Check them out guys. See you next time