Digital Social Hour - Behind the Scenes of a Father-Daughter YouTube Channel | Jordan Matter | Digital Social Hour #54

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Hey there, podcast lovers! I've got an episode that's packed with behind-the-scenes stories, insights, and inspiration from one of YouTube's most talented and dedicated creators. Join me, Sean Kelly, and my co-host Charlie Cavalier on the Digital Social Hour as we chat with the incredible Jordan Matter. From an unexpected journey as a baseball player to becoming a renowned photographer, Jordan's story is as captivating as the breathtaking images he captures. He shares how his photography business skyrocketed after incorporating dancers into everyday situations, leading to a viral sensation and a bestselling book. But that's not all! Jordan spills the beans on his YouTube journey, from starting the ten-minute photo challenge to collaborating with popular dancers and celebrities. Get ready for some jaw-dropping moments as he reveals the trials and tribulations of working with some of the biggest names in the industry. And the best part? Jordan's channel has evolved into a heartwarming father-daughter adventure, where he and his daughter take on weekly escapades filled with laughter, love, and incredible storytelling. Discover how they navigate the pressures and joys of creating content together and the supportive relationship that keeps them grounded. We dig deep into the unique challenges faced by child stars and the importance of prioritizing mental and emotional well-being. Jordan and his wife's unwavering dedication to their daughter's happiness and their commitment to letting her flourish in her own journey sets an inspiring example for creators and parents alike. But it doesn't stop there! Jordan shares his insights on what it takes to succeed on YouTube, offering a treasure trove of advice for aspiring content creators. From engaging storytelling to the power of unique perspectives, he breaks down the key ingredients needed to capture the hearts and attention of millions. Join us on this captivating episode where we discuss everything from the magic behind the scenes, the future of their YouTube channel, and even some hilarious and wild moments Jordan has experienced throughout his career. Trust me, you don't want to miss out on this digital social hour packed with excitement, wisdom, and plenty of laughs. So, grab your headphones, hit play, and get ready to be inspired by Jordan Matter's incredible journey. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the art of storytelling, building authentic connections, and embracing the magic of life's adventures. BUSINESS INQUIRIES: [e-mail] SPONSORS: AG1: https://www.drinkAG1.com/DSH Hostage Tape: https://hostagetape.com/DSH --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/digitalsocialhour/support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And so last year at VidCon was the first year that they celebrated TikTok over YouTube. Attendance was way down. Meet and greets were way down. How do you get a relationship if you're doing this? If you can get people to watch a video that's a 20-minute video and you've told them a story about yourself, they are committed emotionally to you now. That is, I think, what uniquely YouTube offers that TikTok and shorts don't.

Welcome to the Digital Social Hour. I'm your host, Sean Kelly. I'm here with my co-host, Charlie Cavalier. And our guest today, Jordan Matter. Hey, Sean. How's it going? Great. Thanks for coming in today. Just got off the plane. Where'd you come in from?

LA. Okay, not too bad. Easy ride. Yeah, yeah. I'd love for you to explain your story to the people watching. Oh, wow. Okay. Where would you like me to start? The creator story? The creator story. I can give you a Cliff Notes version. Perfect. Okay, sweet. I used to be a baseball player in college. And then I finished that. I was an actor in New York. And I picked up photography because I was doing headshots for my friends and that took off. So I built a business as a photographer for headshots in New York. That was many, many years. And I started photographing dancers. And when I started photographing dancers, I came up with kind of a unique way to do it, which was putting them in everyday situations, but then

enhancing that with dance. So if you're running for a subway and a split leap in a full suit and briefcase kind of thing, had never seen it before. And that was my first experience with going viral or whatever you want to call it. It was on Facebook before Instagram, but it started taking off. Wow. This is going to zip through things, but ended up having a bestselling book. That process took a couple of years of taking those photos every day, but eventually it became a bestselling book. And then once I started working on the third book i started posting those videos to youtube as a way to kind of prove that the videos were that the photos were real because there was a

lot of comments about how i photoshopped everything because no way they could get that high in the air so i started just posting these things they know this is real look this just happened but it was right around the time where show dance moms was off the air but still hot and i was using some of the dance mom stars in these videos so then people started watching those videos as a result of wanting more of content with those with those dancers and i came up with something called a 10 minute photo challenge it's about five years ago 10 minute photo challenge had never been done before simply i would go to a spot randomly picked see how many shots i'd get of a dancer in 10 minutes we'd be running through stores we'd be creating chaos taking a lot of

photos and it kind of took off so for the next three years i was taking photos of dancers and celebrities i would do charlie d'amelio addison ray whoever was the most popular person would let me photograph them youtube channel started building a lot as a result of that but it was always reliant on the popularity of the person i was photographing so if that person had a huge following probably i would get more views right nobody really cared about me that much i don't think other than i was it was kind of like a it's talk show or like your show right i mean you're recognizable but it's kind of about who you book and what you can bring out of them same for me can i get charlie to do some crazy stuff? If I can, a lot of people are going to watch it. Um, so that, that was a YouTube channel built totally on collaborations. Every week I had

to have a new collaboration that can kind of get exhausted. And so my job was getting ghosted. That was my job. I got everybody who I worked with ghosted me before I worked with them five, 10 times. What I learned about ghosting is, you know, I'm older. So usually you say things to people, but younger generation ghosting is kind of a way of saying, nah, I'm not really interested. What other ideas do you have? So I would just reach out a couple months later, not even acknowledge. I just got ghosted. Say, Hey, I've got a great idea. Then I started realizing actually it's about the benefit to the creator Hmm, so I'd say okay. This is how I can help you this how much time it will take and this is how many views I

Anticipated getting that started getting more traction. Hmm. So I would just keep reaching out keep building that Along this time. I was spending a lot of time with my son because he was interested in YouTube too So he would come with me my daughter a gymnast was not and I was missing her So whenever I had opportunity I put her in a video. She was a gymnast. She was little, cute. So she could, was very bendy. So we could come up with photo challenges. And then people started really liking her because we had a dynamic and suddenly it was not just about me being a host, but me having a relationship with somebody and as i realized more and more i had more fun working with her and she was really actually the most popular collaborator of all of

them because we had a relationship so the last two years the channel has basically evolved into a father-daughter channel and i've kind of put away the camera and it's more about weekly adventures with the two of us. Wow. That was more than Cliff Notes. So you switched from photography to more videography now then, right? Well, I've always had a videographer, an editor, a partner who works with me. His name is Sandy. But I stopped taking photos on camera as part of the challenges.

It was very limiting because we'd say, we have this great person. Now, how do we incorporate photography into it? That's very limiting if they're not flying through the air. So in this case, it was like, we have this great person now how do we incorporate photography into it that's very limiting if they're not flying through the air so in this case it was like we have this great collaborate we still collaborate all the time with people with but now it's me and my daughter salish and somebody but we don't have to worry about taking photos of them anymore so now it's just whatever story you want to tell right and you guys just went to the kids choice awards right how we did that was fun we got to sit up on stage and um it was a blast lots of energy so what has been the most fun of doing this with your daughter because i feel like that's a rare

dynamic you don't see a lot of families that are doing this together what has been probably the hardest part about doing it with your daughter that's a great question she started when with me regularly when she was 11 she's 13 now the hardest part is obviously making sure that it's healthy for her in the short and long term emotionally right i mean there's a lot of nastiness out there and so you're now i'm suddenly putting my kid out there and she and so the first thing we have to do is make sure that she's in charge of her own image that's really important and i think a lot of families might get caught up and this is how I want to project you. And what I do is I say, do you like this idea?

So we might, the production team might work all day on an idea. And then we might decide, you know what, this is great. Tell her she doesn't like it. And then we just, you know, squash it. We don't do it. And we just give her another idea until she's happy with it. So as somebody who, as the creator economies, you know, been more advantageous in the last 10 years than probably when you started, you were, you know, one of the originals creating a content creator economy for yourself out of photographs in New York. What has been the best and worst part for you as this new social media going viral sensation has occurred? Has it helped your business? Has it hurt? Has it made it more difficult or what have been the best and worst part for you as this new social media going viral sensation has occurred? Has it

helped your business? Has it hurt? Has it made it more difficult or what have been the best things for you there? Well, you know, the, it's a very difficult nut to crack because there's so many people trying to do it. But if you happen to build an audience, if you're fortunate enough to do so, then, uh, the AdSense revenue that comes in, uh, can be great depending on, you know, how many views you get and what sort of audience you have and what sort of advertisers you have. Um, again, to get back to your original question, building a foundation of success on your kid can be challenging and therefore you have to be very aware as a parent that what you're doing is healthy for the kid because it's two ways right comes with opportunities so she has all these

opportunities now people want to work with her and she's building a platform and she can take it and go in any direction she wants a platform that she has built herself on the other hand if she's learning things about herself based on other people's perceptions of her that can be unhealthy so we're always constantly my wife and i talking about it monitoring her talking checking with her making sure she still wants to be doing it right fortunately we had a very successful channel before she came on board and she knows we do not need her for our success. And I think that's a really important thing. A lot of times with family channels, the kids know that like if they stop, the family's revenue is gone.

And that's insane pressure for anybody, but especially a kid. So she's always known if she's listening to this day, I'm telling you again, say, but I tell her every day, just do it until you're not having fun anymore. As soon as you're not having fun, we'll be done. I love that. Full-time gymnastics. She's a gymnast. Nice. And we'll be good.

I'm very lucky that I can say that. So you have 15 million subscribers. You get millions of views daily. With that viewership comes a lot of hate. How do you deal with negative comments and haters on social media? We don't get a lot of it but i'm sure it's coming right i mean it's like inevitable right uh we have an unbelievably supportive base uh just on saturday we did the first video uh with my wife she's always been camera shy so um and then what was starting to happen is people would literally come

up to her with, when she was with Salish and they'd say, Oh, are you the nanny? And she was like, this is kind of a bummer, but I don't really want to be on camera. So we finally did a face reveal of her. She was very nervous. And there was like 15,000 comments of she's so beautiful. She's so sweet. I love them together. So there wasn't any hate of her at all, which we were all concerned about because, you know, you build something up over years. Salish is almost so sweet. I love them together. So there wasn't any hate of her at all, which we were all concerned about because, you know, you build something up over years. Salish is almost exclusively gets positive reinforcement, which is really great. We monitor it because that's one of the big things. And we talk to her about it. How will you feel if such and such happens? You know, when there is a

comment like that, she usually screenshots it and laughs at it. Like she'll say, Oh, look at this, look at what this person said about me. But far it's been really positive nice yeah because when dream did the face reveal it didn't end well for him no he got a lot of hate didn't and that's such a shame i mean that that's really brutal and i i don't i mean i followed that i don't exactly know i think obviously so much of his mystique was that you didn't know what he looked like i think no matter what he looked like it would just be a bummer. Yeah, he could have been the most attractive guy. Yeah, I don't think it was that he's unattractive because I don't think he is.

It's more just like, ah, now we know. It'd be like Marshmello taking off the helmet. Right. Why do you even need to? Unless he made, obviously, his own personal decisions about that. Right. Interesting.

So with your daughter being 13 and all, how does she deal with all this spotlight? Does she still go to public school and all that? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. She's about to go transfer schools next fall. And we're kind of trying to figure that out. We've done a couple. I mean, the thing is, is she's popular specifically with her age people. So we talked to a couple schools about it, and the schools would say, oh, we've had a lot of kids who are the kids of celebrities. And they're like, that's awesome. I think that this might be a little different,

only in that even, I don't think of her as a celebrity. I just think of her as known within a certain world, and that world is teens, and she's a teen. And that world is parents. We have a co-viewing audience so there's teenagers and parents that watch our videos so now everywhere she goes if there's teenagers around they usually recognize her and she really appreciates it but obviously you know that comes with a certain responsibility that you always need to be aware that somebody

might be filming you or or something and kids can be cruel i mean you know i think even more so than adults sometimes right like you get jealousy built in especially in your teenage years you know you kids can be cruel and also and once again i i don't i would tell you if it was if it was happening wherever she goes or we go um it's positivity uh she's a gymnast and she's a competitive gymnast that's been the biggest adjustment for her because the covid knocked out two years of competitions during that time we started doing youtube together suddenly as she comes back into the competitions and all the people that are competing with her know who she is so in between events kids that are competing are coming up asking for selfies and and when she's doing uh um you know like bars or something it kind of like

stops and people are just watching her that's a lot of pressure like if you're already like do i have my skills i want to get like the judges are watching i want to get this regionals. And then also you see like other people filming you. So again, she's been so great about it. And she's so thrilled that she has the opportunity to have this attention. But I would think it might add an extra layer of pressure to her in those situations. For sure. It's already pretty pressurizing in those situations. It can be.

And I think she's just really lucky because I think the energy that we try to put out is inclusive and positive and so as a result she there's there's not a lot of drama we're not doing things that you would normally get hate for we don't like flex or anything we you know so i don't i don't think there's controversy in a way that would lead to the hate. I had an interesting conversation with Charlie D'Amelio. Actually, the first time I worked with her, she was just blowing up like within a week. And I was the first quote celebrity that she had worked with. That's funny, right? But she had followed me as a dance photographer, had all my books. She was a dancer. She was so excited to work with me. Grand Central Station was the shoot. Kids came up to her. I said, how long has this been going on?

She said, a week. It's been going on a week. Next time we worked together, two months later, she had become massive. People screaming. She was going to go on with J-Lo and Super Bowl the next week. It was like crazy.

What happened in two months? And I said, how did this happen? And she said, what happened was she had a loyal fan base because she was responding to their comments. That loyal fan base. Then she got popular and there was a lot of hate. A lot of hate.

You remember. Still, she gets unfortunate. She's one of the nicest people I've ever worked with. Gets so much hate. All her fans came to her defense. That created a lot of engagement. TikTok saw the engagement, boosted the post so she was grateful for the hate because she's like this hate led to all the success in a way yeah if you could channel

it sometimes it works in your favor right yeah it's an interesting way to look at it isn't it this is actually a positive thing because it's generating buzz and engagement and tiktok likes buzz and engagement and they post they push my post more i agree because if you spark debate it leads to the post going more viral and the thing that's amazing because i know mark and heidi her parents they're really really uh great parents and very level-headed very smart about how to you know when to give her opportunities when to pull her back and i've kind of tried to learn from their actions in a way with salish in terms of how to be a healthy parent and

supportive of her without pushing her out there too much like we don't do brand deals really or or we haven't sold any products we just have only just like here's content for free we've never done a paywall everything's for free because a lot of the viewers might not have the money to pay for something we don't want them to feel excluded and uh as a result i think that we have a lot of goodwill that's interesting you took that route because you could have made millions if not tens of millions doing brand deals and other activities yeah but you decided just to make everything for free yes will that change one day i think that if we had and this is again it's her decision because i'm not going to

pretend that i would be the one selling it right so first of all she has to be comfortable with the thing and one of the things is we've talked to a beauty line for example who several who are interested in doing uh a launch right like the salish uh skincare products okay great she loves skincare i'm sure a lot of kids would be interested i think salish would feel like she was sharing something positive with the world however that requires a commitment of at least a year on social media. I don't want to feel like she's obligated to have to do this for a year. I want her to know she can walk next week if she wants. So any long-term commitments get in the way of that commitment. Right. So, so that's one of the reasons, but I think if she found the

right thing and she was really excited about it and she and she wanted it then sure i mean it's all going to be her money anyway that makes sense so it's her decision yeah a lot can change in a year yeah i'm curious the because your videos get millions sometimes tens of millions of views is it as simple as turning the camera on turning it off sending it to the video editors how much thought actually goes into your videos? So the goal of YouTube is to make it seem effortless. But if it is effortless, and I've worked with people who don't put a lot of effort in,

you can tell. So our week is, start with Monday. Monday and Tuesday, we film on Sundays because that's her day off. Salish has school and gymnastics. That's the priority. So we take the spots that's her day off. She has school and gymnastics. That's the priority. So we take the spots that she can give us, and that's usually Sunday. So we'll shoot on Sunday. Monday and Tuesday, we're conceiving next week's video.

Wednesday, we're doing pickup shots if we need them because she has off on Wednesdays also. But mainly it's a day off. Thursday, Friday, more concept. We're building pre-production, all that. Sunday, we film again. So we basically pre-production all that sunday we film again so we we basically pre-produce five days a week so it's all set to go so the idea is and we i think of it as the amount of we we've gotten five billion views so the that's significant on for any entertainment channel yeah and i think it deserves that effort. Netflix wouldn't put something out

and just, hey, yo guys. So I think YouTube is competing on several fronts, but I think they're competing with TikTok on Shorts. But they're also competing with Netflix. They're competing with HBO and Hulu. YouTube is the number one streaming platform.

Number one, beyond any of them. And that's because people are now sitting down on the couch and watching a YouTube video like it's a Netflix series. number one beyond any of them and that's because people are now sitting down on the couch and watching a youtube video like it's a netflix series right and we are coming to their home weekly and the thing we have the advantage of is we're real netflix is all scripted we're not so it's like a soap opera in a way and if you you you build a trust with the audience there's an expectation for a certain quality of content and we've set that bar pretty high so now every week we want to match that and that's hard and the other thing

anybody out there that's thinking about being a creator consistency it's by far the most important thing would friends have taken a week off no of course not no we post every saturday in five and a half years we've probably missed four or five Saturdays. Wow. And that's through COVID. That's through personal stuff that everybody's going through. We've posted every single Saturday. So now when we post and we've built an audience every week. Right. So when we post, there's there are one hundred and thirty thousand people watching our premiere last week or just our premiere. Just the first 15 minutes. That's insane. That was crazy because they know it's coming and they're looking forward to it. And then if you give them, satisfy them or exceed their expectations next

week, they'll bring friends with them, you know? And then the other thing, of course, the responsibility, again, I keep talking about this, but the responsibility of a parent knowing that you have teens and parents watching, it's so important that the content you put out there is positive. Because as you said, there's so much negativity in social media now. We don't want to be another one of those. And by the way, negativity also, by that I mean like showing things that cannot be achieved by anybody else. Like look at my huge mansion.

What? You know, and the gold chains. Like $20 million. Like for me, I think it's great if people have achieved that success, especially if they came from less success and they want to show the world because they're proud of themselves. But for me, we actually shop at Target.

We show ourselves shopping at Target. We want to make it the kind of content that almost anybody could live that life. Relatable. Yes. There's always somebody with a bigger boat. What's happened with YouTube is I don't know how familiar you guys are with the platform but everybody was getting gobs of views last year because they're all doing a hundred fears in 24 hours so we're like these

mega things there's flying all over the world and there's nothing personal about that content but it's spectacle and it's fun to watch but But I think now the audience has turned the page on that. A lot of creators are still trying to do that because they haven't built a personal relationship with the audience. They haven't shared anything about themselves personally. And what we try to do every week is bring you into our lives, make it not such a big spectacle, but make it intimate. Where do you see YouTube Shorts going? Do you see a lot of potential in that?

I'm not a huge YouTube Shorts going? Do you see a lot of potential in that? I'm not a huge YouTube Shorts fan because I think it – I think it – there's a certain attention span that people had and they have less of it now. And it's – YouTube is unique. Long form, it's the only place you can go to get long form, really. But Shorts is what everyone is doing. Reels, TikTok, Snapchat. Yeah. i get what

they're trying to do um but i think that and i also think just to do a short well is very creative i'm not saying it's easy it's really hard actually but i don't think it allows the viewers to build up any sort of relationship with you so do you guys know what vidcon is yeah okay so last year at vidcon was the first year that they celebrated tiktok over youtube attendance was way down meet and greets were way down even though they had people that get a hundred like a hundred million followers right because there's no relationship there it's just you know this how do you get a relationship if you're doing this so with if you can get people to watch a video that's a 20 minute video and they watch it and you've told them a story about

yourself they they are committed emotionally to you now and that is i think what uniquely youtube offers that tiktok and shorts don't so do you feel like you're maxed out and what i mean offers that TikTok and shorts don't. So do you feel like you're maxed out? And what I mean by that, if you wanted to scale up production, maybe two videos a week now or more stuff, would you have to start removing things from you and your daughter's lives? Or do you feel like you're still in a situation you could do more? No, you'd have to start removing things. We'd have to. Yeah. Yeah, we would have to.

Because we could use two videos a week if we want to lower the quality of the videos for sure there's people that go into a studio and bang out three in a day but but if we want to make the kind of videos we make then i would have to ask salish uh to either skip gymnastics or miss school right and i don't want to do those things and she doesn't want to do them so we're we're on a one a week pattern. Similar to Mark Rober. He does like one a month, right? He does one a month.

Yeah. And it's epic. Epic. It's epic. Have you seen those? Yeah. It's like doorbell pranks. Yeah.

I love it. We're going to work with him. Yeah. We're working with him in September. Very excited. Very cool. Going up to his space. So you see a lot of child actors, child stars. Yeah.

Grow up and go down a dark path. I've heard of it. Yeah. I'm sure you have. Is that in the back of your head a lot of it. Yeah. I'm sure you have. Is that in the back of your head a lot? Yes. Yeah. And that's why, uh, and again, I don't know those kids personally. You only know the stories, but often when you hear the stories, you, there is some version of parents pushing their kids out there, right? There's some version of that, right? Not listening

to the signals when the kid was like, I'm not happy here. I'm not comfortable't want to do this so as long as i feel like as long as we're communicating we're keeping the doors open we're involved and she really knows that she does not have to do it there's no pressure to do it um we've on several occasions canceled the shoot as we were about to shoot big shoot production lots of this that and the other and cancel it for whatever reason she was suddenly uncomfortable with the circumstances or didn't like something about it it wasn't feeling well without even a hesitation we'll cancel it wow and and then we'll figure out something else um and for me that's the most most important thing is is her comfort um my son also does youtube but he is on his own path cause he's got his own channel. He appears in our sometimes,

but he, he, for me, I know he will probably always do it. He's deeply passionate about it. She loves gymnastics and loves creating videos. I don't know if she wants to be a creator one day and the path will be open to her if she wants it. Cause you know, she's got a platform now now but she doesn't want it you know she'll have money in

the bank and she'll get to do whatever she wants right so i hope i'm really it's a really good question sean because i i think about it all the time yeah i'm like i listen to all the podcasts and all the videos about like all the how that what went wrong went wrong with YouTube kids. Sunny B2 videos. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, dang, okay, let's not, let's not do that thing or that thing or that thing. Yeah.

It's scary, man. It is scary. Now what I have so much respect for you is just how much you're hammering home. You can walk away whenever you want. You do not have to be here. The adage, the show must go on, does not apply in this situation because it's your family, it's your daughter, it's people you care about. Right.

And that's more important than is it is yeah my relationship with her is the most important thing about all this that now weekly we get to go do something together um it's unbelievable i'm just ridiculously lucky what are your goals and plans for this do you want to have your own tv show on movie wonder um i have there's i think that what would be great would be if we took this and we built some something a show of some sort and we've been talking about what they can live on beyond us needing to post on youtube right so if it's for example an animated show'd love to do that. Now we can lock in right now this moment.

This moment for us is magical. We have a great relationship. She's still young. She's very innocent. And I want to lock that in because she's growing up quick. And even if she keeps making videos, probably in a couple years, she's not going to be beating me up on camera. She's going to be 15, 16.

She's going to be doing that. And I might be behind the camera kind of helping that process along. So right now it's magic and I want to bottle it. So there's a couple of different ways we could go, either product or shows. I think shows would be better if we felt like the entertainment was healthy. Is there a time when you're going to bring someone in to do a lot of the production stuff so that it doesn't fall on you? I don't do it. My partner is in charge of production.

So I do pre-production as in creative ideas. He has a production team that shoots, does the audio, edits. I give notes, but for the most part, he's in charge of production. So that's his department and my department is the creative. How much money would you say you would need to get started if you want to be a YouTuber, make videos up to your quality? Oh, well, up to our quality would be it's not so much the camera. Often we film on a phone. If we like if we're in the mall or somewhere we're not allowed

to film yeah we always shoot with an iphone wow but the audio and that is the number one thing audio if you if you just watch a lot of videos you can see it's on camera audio you can just tell you listen to echo um our audio is beautiful we're all laughed so the audio is great and uh then the syncing of that is a challenge. So you need to have, because if you have multiple audio tracks going and they're stopping and starting throughout and then they're not syncing up. So that's the biggest hassle, but I don't actually think you need a lot of money because there's not,

not expensive cameras. My partner, he sold his camera. There was a red camera because he never needed it. Wow. And he just has a little Sony. Wow. Yeah. It's all about the idea. I'd say. Wow. And he just has a little Sony. Wow. Yeah.

It's all about the idea. I'd say that the success of, to be a YouTuber, the most important success part is the concept of the video every week. That encourages people to click on it. But then once you get them to click, you deliver what they thought they were going to get. And you give them more than they anticipated. And you have a reason why they need to wait until the end to see what happens so that's storytelling yeah concept and storytelling are all it's about and i think

mr beast has a great job with that yeah yeah yeah i mean he's it's really interesting how jimmy will go on a podcast and say some things. And suddenly everybody's perspective changes. Like, okay, now it's about attention. Now it's about retention. Now it's about click through rate. Like,

and everybody's kind of waiting to hear what his thing is because his, his numbers are astronomically higher than whoever number two is out there. I click on almost every video. The thumbnail is just, it's hard. Great. And you know what you're going to get, but then there's a twist, right right and he's a master of retention i think he's been better at keeping

attention spans for long form videos and i mean that's why he's hit the numbers he's had but the thing is that what happens is is if you're inspired if you're inspired by jimmy um and you try to replicate what he does that's a challenge because he's, he's really doing it. Like he's building a million dollar set and giving away a million dollars. If you now say $10,000, let's say you save up for a month. You're like,

I'm going to give away all this money. Nobody cares because they just watched Jimmy give away a million. So you can't compete with that in any way. Yeah. yeah so instead but what you can do is be unique to you so he's unique to him and whatever you have to offer you don't need to feel like you have to go out and give away stuff just because that's successful for him you have a personal story to tell and there will be people that are interested in hearing that story yeah Yeah. Lastly, how important are the metrics on YouTube like watch time? Extremely. Really?

So you study it all the time? Yeah. Yeah. YouTube Studio. Definitely. And it seems like currently YouTube is valuing AVD, which is the average view duration, the number of minutes somebody stays on the video. As opposed to APV, which is the percentage of time so if you have a 10 minute video and you get them to say for seven minutes that's an incredible

length of time 70 is huge right or if you have a 20 minute video and they only stay 50 youtube i think will prefer the 20 minute video for 10 for 50 because they want minutes on the platform this this is we all talk all the time. So this is conjecture. Who knows? But that's what seems to be longer videos seem to do really well on YouTube right now. So you're a very positive person and I love that.

But I want to hear a story about what the worst photo shoot experience that you ever had was. I need some negativity. I need something. That's funny. funny okay probably the worst photo shoot experience i ever had was i was um i mean my okay i there's a lot i could i could say but then i would be dishing on people that i we can keep it anonymous we can we can you know

they'll know but i'll tell you i'll tell you two. One was a very well-known person whose parents were there. And I was photographing her. It's not Charlie, by the way, because I mentioned her. So I just want to clarify, not even Mark and Heidi are awesome. But and the parents were being really hard on her. And at a certain point, I took them aside and I said, look, I just want you to know that if I would never work with her again and I wouldn't because you guys are being so cruel to her. I don't want to reinforce that in her by saying it's OK. So I had to have a talk with the parents.

That was very awkward. But probably the most awkward experience I ever had, I was in McDonald's 3 a.m. in Times Square and we were doing a photo shoot and I was photographing a contortionist. So and which I would do all the time. I'd photograph dancers and contortionists and I'd put them in everyday situations. So this woman was a contortionist and she's in a full back bend or something and she's eating a Big Mac. Some dude, he's drunk. It's Times Square. It's 3 a.m.

He comes in and he sees somebody doing a back bend, has no idea what the context is is and then grabs me and throws me against the window and this is being broadcast live we're doing a 24-hour live stream and in the middle of this live stream this good and this guy's big man like muscles six six big and sandy who who knows uh i believe he knows jujitsu or taekwondo and And he's like 50 with a pack on, gets in between us and protects me. Wow. It's so awesome. All of it caught live on camera. Why did he throw you?

What? Why did the guy throw you on the wall? Because he saw a contortionist doing a bend and he didn't understand why. And he got angry at me. And I didn't, I don't know. He was drunk. Wow. Yeah.

I actually don't know what he was when the story started with mcdonald's time square 3am drunk yeah yeah yeah so just getting assaulted on camera on a live stream probably was the worst wow that sounds intense at least you were recording it though right yeah we got it on camera and then actually later you know uh we kept doing live stream but somebody talked to me and said oh dude sorry man i was just i had too much to drink like i get it like somebody talked to him and said, oh, dude, sorry, man. I was just, I had too much to drink. Like, I get it. Like, they explained to him, he's a photographer.

He does photos of dancers. This person is a dancer. Oh, dude, I get it. Jeez, man, that's funny. Jordan, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Any closing comments for the audience? No, man, just go after your dreams.

That was cheesy, but true. Love it. Digital Social Hour. Thanks for tuning in, guys. I'll see you guys next time.