Digital Social Hour - Debating Gary the Numbers Guy, Cheating and Why Astrology is BS | Michael Sartain DSH #238

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

On today's episode of Digital Social Hour, Michael Sartain explains why he does not believe in numerology and astrology, why he doesn't hook up with girls that have boyfriends and how he became good at debating. APPLY TO BE ON THE PODCAST: https://forms.gle/qXvENTeurx7Xn8Ci9 BUSINESS INQUIRIES/SPONSORS: [e-mail] SPONSORS: Opus Pro: https://www.opus.pro/?via=DSH Deposyt Payment Processing: https://www.deposyt.com/seankelly LISTEN ON: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-social-hour/id1676846015 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Jn7LXarRlI8Hc0GtTn759 Sean Kelly Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmikekelly/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You believe men and women can be friends? Absolutely, yeah. Most people advise not to do that. 98% of men cannot be friends with women. Because if they try, they're going to act like simps. And when they act like simps, they get put into the friend zone. That is death sentence. That is death con one.

That is the worst possible situation. I recommend men friend zone women. Ladies and gentlemen, we're back on the Digital Social Hour. Got a recurring guest. Doesn't happen often. Michael Sart we're back on the digital social hour got a recurring guest doesn't happen often michael sartain is back in the building how's it going what's going on man it's good to see you uh listen man i uh i got in a lot of trouble for the stuff i said on your uh previous episode so i did something right yeah man how have you been feeling lately i mean things are getting crazy with fresh and fit getting demonetized yeah i mean are you nervous at all with that no i i don't uh i love those guys but i my content is nothing like there

so it's not very it's like it's similar in that we we come to similar conclusions but i would never some of the words they use and some of the ways that they they're a little bit judgmental you're never going to see that on my show my show is basically statistics so for instance they might have some people on their show use pejoratives against women or whatever but for me i'm going to say something like something to the effect of like 83 of the time when a woman cheats on her partner she's going to fall in love with her affair partner where it's only 29 of the time a man will that means men cheat for a different reason than than women do that's those are statistical studies right the number one correlation between a woman cheating and a marriage uh is how many sexual partners she

had before she got married there's science behind that read dr david boss's books when i say that though it makes people angry but you're not going to cancel me for that because what i just said is documented by the most the foremost evolutionary psychologist on the planet so i think that's kind of where we differ is that i just stick to the science and i try to keep my opinion out of it so i'm not super worried about it i do make some people mad though i will tell you that i actually make people more mad because i substantiate every single thing i say i think that makes people more angry because when you're when you're entrenched in your own position and i haven't really given you because i'm not you're not arguing it's my position you're arguing

it's you know statistics and science it makes people very angry it's like well i can find a survey that'll say anything you can't you 80 of divorces are initiated by women you can't find a survey that says 80 of divorces are initiated by men you can't you can try as much as you want but you really can't so i think it's one of these things where it's like they want to believe science when it helps them and not when it doesn't so absolutely one of your interesting takes i thought was you believe men and women can be friends absolutely yeah most people advise not to do well most people in the red pill space and most people in pickup would advise that uh most guys who are really really, really good with women have no problem being friends with them. In fact, it's to the point where like if you ever met like a really high end club promoter or a guy who owns a nightclub or a strip club or something, so just has a job, maybe even a male nurse who's like on a floor with just nothing but women there.

Not only are they able to be friends with women, the concept doesn't even of not being friends with women doesn't even come into their mind. Right. with women the concept doesn't even of not being friends with women doesn't even come into their mind right um and the guys who are so you know i think there was a point in my life probably 2007 when i was hanging out with these um these guys in the pickup community i knew mystery matted or all these guys neil strass and then i would also hang out with um and by the way mystery's not hardcore and can't be friends with women and then i would hang out with these club promoters and the club promoters would always be like have tons of female friends so they'd have their girlfriend and then they'd have like two or three girls they'd have threesomes with and then they'd have like 40 or 50 girls that would show up to their birthday party

that they may or may not have had sex with before and then so and i watched it and i was like it was clear that they were friends like legitimately they treated them like family there's a great book it's called uh very important people by ashley mirrors and it talks about how these these guys were just surrounded by women all the time they They call it the, the, the girls, they would say that they're friends. So what happens is how comfortable are you being around attractive women? And do you like being around them for the sake of being around them? And if you do, you can be friends with them. Now here's where the rubber meets the road. 98% of men cannot be friends with women because if they try, they're going to act like simps. And when they act like simps, they get put into the friend zone.

That is death sentence that is death con one that is the worst possible situation i recommend men friend zone women i recommend you got your main girl and then like maybe some side girls that you see if you if your girl's comfortable with that right maybe you're polygynous or whatever and then on the side you have other women that you're friends with that are like so for instance lindsey palos is a great example lindsey palos has a boyfriend and she's got 10 million followers on IG. How stupid would it be for me to go hit on her or Emily Sears or Abigail Rashford or kindly Myers or whoever, if they're in a relationship for me to try to one, ruin their relationship.

And to be in the situation where they can help my business. They're awesome friends to have. They're super interesting people. I can get them on my podcast. They can help me in so many different ways. And so I'm going to ruin that because them on my podcast. They can help me in so many different ways. And so I'm going to ruin that because it's like, no, bro, blow me or blow me out. Like what the stupid idiot PUA say. That's the reason why I say that. So the reality is if you just got out of prison for 10 years or if you've been in the military and on a 15-month deployment and you come back and you're desperate for women, no, you

can't be friends with women. For guys who have abundance with women, they have no trouble being friends with women. In fact, it's not even a debate. If I were to sit there and talk to, again, the guy who runs the stage at, say, Omnia or Hakkasan or whatever, I promise you he's friends with women. And Bilzerian had two girls, what's it, Masha Diduk and what's the other girl's name, Bianca Ghezzi,

who were actually sourcing women. And he wasn't sleeping with them. They were helping him find girls to come to his house. Wow. But people don't grasp that idea right affiliate marketing makes sense to people but having females bring you other females somehow is like outside the realm of the reality wow so you mentioned relationships earlier if a girl has a boyfriend is that girl off limits for you uh yeah for me yeah it would be i think there was definitely a point in my 20s where i didn't care

about anything most most guys have a period in their life where it was like maybe just just out of college where it's like you know have sex with as many attractive women as possible do anything i can so go to bar every night don't care if she's a republican or democrat don't care if she has a good relationship with her family don't care what her body count is just trying to hook up with hot women as much as possible guys go through that i'm 45 i am not in that period in my life anymore so the idea of me ruining someone else's relationship, just because I happen to have higher status or because I'm on stage at some nightclub when she's doing is so low brow to me. That's something I'm not interested in. So I would recommend,

I just, you know, the idea of like, yeah, you see this kind of stuff all the time. So yeah, if a girl has a boyfriend, I would definitely, I would definitely try to stay away. Now that being said, you know, you've lived here for a while i'm sure you have friends if you go out uh girls will come here and swear up and down they don't have a boyfriend it's vegas it's true as soon as they get here they will sweat ring comes off sweat leave the morals with your baggage but you know back at the hotel they'll swear they don't have a boyfriend and then you find out later and it's just like i mean who do you blame in that case you know absolutely yeah do you believe it's easier to be a man or a woman um i i believe that biologically it's easier to be a

man i think societally right now it's probably easier to be a woman um i mean because i mean what i mean by that is in society when you look at things like for instance alimony 90 percent of 97 percent of alimony is paid from men to women. 84% of the time, primary child custody goes from the woman to the man. I think when you look at a situation like if there's a domestic dispute, men are going to jail. It's the women that are not going to jail. In those kind of cases, I think women do have it well. And also when it comes to education, 68% of college graduates are now women. You are more likely to, I think you're something like six times more likely to get a master's

degree if you're an African-American woman than if you're an African-American man. Now, uh, you were, we're finding situations where the suicide rate for men over 40, who've been divorced is nine times higher than the, than the, than the average than the, the national average. Uh, we're also finding that, um that men who have been zeroed out, you know, have serious, serious emotional problems that happen to them.

And then there's a, there's a couple other studies that happen with divorce. Seven, 80% of divorces are initiated by women because I feel like they're being incentivized to divorce men through propaganda, through the, again, this is just,

that's the only part that's in my opinion. Everything else I just said was statistic. And so I do think it is easier now to be a woman i do societally biologically i think it's easier to be a man and it will always be easier to be a man because there's a few things obviously we have advantages when it comes to strength and endurance yeah power physical uh durability but i also think uh we have advantages when it comes to, as a man, I have hundreds of ways to attract women. And as a woman, I don't have hundreds of ways to attract men. I have maybe as many as four, probably one way to attract men. And if I don't have that one way, like he just

doesn't find me physically attractive if you're a woman, then you don't really have a second way to go around. The thing is, most men right now are so incredibly desperate. 26% of men under the age of 30 are virgins. I think at this point, 33% of men under the age of 30 have had zero sexual partners in the last year, just outrageous numbers like this. So when you get to these numbers, you start to see societally,

it's easier to be a woman. You have more access to men when it comes to online, you have more access to men. And also you online. You have more access to men. And also you can change your appearance using FaceApp, Facetune. You have access to different ways to make money when it comes to like Patreon, stuff like that. And then, you know, those things are still available to women. And they don't even have to be fantastically attractive women either.

You know, pretty average women can make money doing that. So I do think societally, because of education, there are more female military pilots than there are male kindergarten teachers right now. 5% of psychologists under the age of 30 are men. 5%. Let me say that one more time. 5% of psychologists under the age of 30 are men. That means in the future, psychology will be similar to how nursing and primary education is. It'll be completely dominated by women. So I do think there are these opportunities. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there's opportunities that have been open to women to where I do think societally it's easier to be a woman.

But as a man, you just have more. There are more branches of opportunity open to you to be successful financially and to be successful in relationships. That makes sense. Do you feel like social media and dating apps have been a net positive for the dating culture or do you think? Yeah. So, so when it comes to women, so there's three of you ever heard this before. There's three genders, high status men, low status men and women. Those are the three genders, high status men and low status men have nothing to do with each other. Social media has absolutely benefited high status men, meaning men who can show relevancy competency or access to scarce resources those men have outrageous numbers of women coming after them

i'll tell you right now from the time i was 22 to the time i'm 45 now the the the way one of the the issues that happens and a lot of guys who are in their early 20s don't realize but like my competition i have a girlfriend now but my competition for men are guys that look like Takashi six, nine, uh, machine gun Kelly. And, and, uh, you know, post Malone, like lots of tattoos on face, like lots of coping going on. No, no ability to fight, no ability to no athleticism whatsoever. And in my, you know, when I was growing up in the eighties and nineties, that just wasn't what a mask, that wasn't a masculine, uh, athletic, attractive art type for women that isn't

attractive for them now and so i feel like i don't really have much competition when it comes to like competing for women now and most of the guys that i know that are in their late 30s early 40s we feel the same way i feel like the guys that are younger just aren't very good at being masculine because they're not taught to or they haven't they don't have the instruction manual on how to do that and so uh while the rest of the world may be telling men to not be masculine or calling their traits toxic, uh, the reality is if you stick with those traits, it's still way more attractive to women. So I think, uh, men who are higher earners, men who are physically attractive, men who are incredibly talented men who have some sort of skillset, some level of competency, some access

to scarce resources. And this is, this could be just the guy who hands out the artist wristbands over at XS, right? Simply, something as small as that. The guy, the VIP host who does all the girl comps over at Omnia, simple as that. Just small access to scarce resources. Those guys, social media has absolutely benefited. Other men, it's destroyed their lives because what's happened is you have a guy,

let's say he's an eight. He's a lawyer who lives in Wichita, Kansas, and you have a girl guy let's say he's an eight he's a lawyer who lives in wichita kansas and you have a girl let's say she's an eight i don't mean by physical attractiveness i mean just stratifying them as far as their you know their market value uh in the dating market okay you have an eight guy and eight girl they both live in wichita the difference is the guy in wichita would normally have married the girl in wichita but now the girl in wichita is being flown out to la to go be at the ignite party, the Maxim party, the playboy mansion that she's going to,

uh, uh, New York fashion week. She's going to swim week, stuff like that. And now she ends up like maybe, or maybe not having sex with a celebrity or some rich guy or something like that.

And so now the eight guy is not dating the eight girl in Wichita anymore. He's going for a seven, a six, a five, a four. And so he, the average guy is now being decimated by the high status man. And so what you're finding now is that the middle class for men is sort of disappearing because of social media. There

is no average social media. There's incredible social media or you're garbage. That's it. And it sucks. It really does suck. Like with your stuff, like you're posting your podcast, right? Well, that shows competency and relevancy. You have relevant guests on, and you're competent at doing a podcast. And it also shows, I know that if I were to message you on Instagram, we obviously message, but even before so, I know you know how to use your Instagram. I know you know how to post a picture. Do you know how many men just don't even know how to do that? They don't know how to post?

You'd be, walk around Walmart sometime, and then ask yourself who's in these men and then ask like ask a guy who's stocking the shelves at walmart's like do you have an instagram account do you have a twitter do you have anything they're like no we don't have anything you're just gonna find that it's just like all all social media has done is bifurcated men into two uh it's it's increased the bifurcation meaning it's made a one species of high status men and another species of low status men and i would say the split is like 84, 16, like 16% of men would be above that status poverty line. And then the other 84% would be below it. I just like a legitimately, I have clients come to me all the time. They've been divorced and then getting them back in the dating market is so much harder now

because on Tinder, Tinder, Bumble and hinge, I believe are garbage. Uh, they're just, uh, there's like five times as many men as women on there anytime you see an attractive women a woman on tinder bumble or hinge they are um generally trying to get you to go down their funnel to join their or their um and 80 of men or the top 20 of men on tinder bumble and hinge are getting 83 of the right swipes meaning tinder bumble and hinge just like social media is just reserved for a small group of men at the top getting all the sex and then all the men at the bottom 80% getting next to nothing. That's crazy. I didn't know it was good like that. I've seen you on quite a few debates. You're really good at debating. Who stands out to you as your toughest opponent so far? Toughest opponent? I don't know, the answer is the most obstinate opponent,

meaning like I'm winning, but like he's, it's like, you know, when he put up a good fight, I guess. It's not that he even put up a good fight. He just yelled louder and just didn't concede any points was probably Zerka. Like it was one of these things where like Zerka didn't make sense in what he was saying. And his audience even started turning on him. But he just yelled so loud.

It was so draining having to yell with a guy that loud you got to match his energy to match his energy it really was and i like john a lot but it was just crazy trying to match his energy the whole time like he just would turn it up and i was fighting my favorite person to debate was destiny uh because he does a lot of research and he and a lot of people say he doesn't argue in good faith i think destiny has some opinions that are wrong about certain things but i think he does i think he's so quick-witted i actually try to learn from some of the stuff that he does oh yeah and the other thing is like the most research guy and i've never debated him because he's one of my best friends is rollo like rollo does a ton of research it's so funny to me

when people think that rollo doesn't do a ton of research uh what he just like he spouts off the mouth out of like misogynistic belief or whatever he, they, people think he has, it's nonsense. No one does more research than this man. I swear to God, every day I just get evolutionary psychology posts sent to me from him and a book that he recommends. This man reads it. He's the only person I know who reads more than me. And so, yeah, like Rolo, I think is probably the most base guy, but Rolo's job is he's an author and my, I am a classically trained debater from college and high school and so like i enjoy doing debates yeah you know a lot um one of the funny things i was talking to a friend of mine if you had a guy if you had three phds in astrophysics over here and you had three flat earthers next to them they were doing a debate the flat earthers

would win every single time even though the the physicists are completely correct in what they believe the flat earthers are better debaters and they just ignore science whereas the the physicists are they're bound by science and truth so it actually limits what they can do and they're not trained as debaters because they're phds so it's one of these things like i was i was always wondering like how is this flatter thing like catching steam because it's obviously the stupidest thing i've ever heard of um and you start to realize well the reason why is because the the the a small group of people who become very good debater and by the way you i know you had your partner say this uh we did land on the moon i can prove we landed on the moon and if you had somebody come on here to debate me if we land on the moon

i'll show you the proofs of how we landed on the moon and they won't know any of them and it because the reason why is they only research one side of the story they never research both um you know it comes to retro reflectors and 600 000 people working on gemini and apollo and stuff like that it's very easy to prove that we landed on the moon but it's one of these situations where they only look at one side and the other side is so convincing because they they flat they're so flashy and they make really good youtube posts whereas the people who put us on the moon a lot of them have passed away and their phds they're not there to debate or be on tiktok right yeah dang i didn't know you debated in high school and college yeah that makes a lot of sense though you got that advantage yeah were you like scholarship no uh did moot court i was a district

12 for a lincoln douglas debate champion i want to say man what was that 1995 something like that yeah it was a long time ago but i just enjoy doing it because you try to not make things personal but of course when you get into a debate sometimes with some of these people it gets things personal and the other question for me the thing i always have to go to into with the debates is like is this helping my business right uh alex ramosi has a great saying he's like do the work i get up and i do the work i was like i don't care about ice baths i don't make my bed i just do the work sometimes i have to question with me getting drug into debates about um you know flat earth or holocaust deniers or whatever like am i is it worth me getting into these debates because it's like

it's not helping my business right so it's one of these things where i'm good at it but i probably should so the debates that i've been getting into more is cold approach versus social circle can women and men be friends because these things actually affect my business yeah this seemed like your debate with uh gary the numbers guy got kind of personal yeah i mean like the thing the thing with gary and i'll just listen i'm gonna break kayfabe here uh gary will be super nice to you uh then he'll come on there and he'll make things a little bit personal and he'll take jabs at you uh that are just like ridiculous if he gets he'll get 55 things in a row wrong he'll get one thing right and then he'll just claim total victory then he'll go on twitter and smash you and then he'll be like hey do you want to go to dinner

later like that's that's gary and like because of that after a while like after i figured out that's how gary is i don't dislike it anymore i kind of i have some respect for him like i lost my twitter and he wanted to help me as soon as i got a new one back so he's a nice guy but like he like he literally thinks that this is ultimate warrior versus hulk hogan and so like for me i'm debating actual science and for him he's like trying to go viral on twitter and i get it like i'm not i'm not saying i'm not guilty of that i'm definitely trying to go viral on twitter too i guess but it's just one of these things where you know he does that kind of stuff i mean getting into the debate about numerology numerology just isn't true like i can show you it's not true

just because a couple of billionaires were born on the same day doesn't mean anything right and it's like it's so funny because it's like if you're if what you uh if your traits don't match up with his numerology ideas and he starts saying yeah but you're but you have a one and a three on your shirt and if you add one and three together that's four and if you multiply four times four that's 16 so that means your life has a 16 and like somehow they come to these numbers and it's just so crazy when you see it. And then if you do any, any reading on like a cognitive bias, you can quickly like see what he's doing. He's basically,

if you've ever seen a humanist or a mental, I'm sorry, mentalist, if you've seen a mental, he basically does what a mentalist does, but he does it with, with astrology and numerology. Oh,

wow. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And you, you also proved astrology was BS too, right? I mean,

I don't have to prove astrology is BS. There's several studies where you just take people who are correlated like based on their astrological signs and see if they're more likely to get divorced more likely to get more married more likely to have sex with each other more likely to go on a first date more likely to go on a second date any correlation you want and you find the correlation is absolutely positively completely undeniably zero there's no correlation between people's uh income and what their astrology sign is there's no correlation between what if they income and what their astrology sign is there's no correlation between what if they're born in the year of the rat the year of the monkey the

year of the snake whatever there's no correlation all you'd have to do is take a population level survey and you'd be able to see one percent correlation when i say guys there's not even one percent correlation between any of these things astrology has been totally debunked but the thing is it's been debunked for over 100 years and people still want to it just it feels fun to be part of a group right when i watch professional wrestling i love to use this example when i'm watching john wick i know that's actually keanu reeves and he's not really people and when i watch professional wrestling i know that ultimate warrior and hulk hogan are actually friends off stage and they probably buy steroids from the same guy and probably swap wives like they're actually friends off stage the problem with numerology and astrology is that these people

are pretending like this fake thing is actually real when it's fake you know that that's the issue i know the dallas i'm a dallas cowboys fan i know the dallas cowboys don't give a about me they don't know who i am i know i'm just like cheering for cloth i happen to be from dallas and i like the cowboys but i'm aware of the story i'm telling myself and i'm aware of the illusion whereas people in numerology and astrology they are not aware of the illusion that they're telling by the way I'll say the same thing I don't believe in technical analysis or fundamental analysis there's science that show that that isn't real either there's stuff like that where people have a hard time believing and they get and they get upset and so that that's the issue it's like if you disagree with me then we can have a disagreement I never take it

personally but when I use science to have these debates, people get furious with me. And that's where, that's why I know I'm doing something right. But in the case of flat earth or numerology, there's like nothing really to debate because there's no, there's nothing to substantiate what they believe. So I'm like debating against like a cloud or like a puff of air. If that made, does that make sense? There's no proof or facts. If you and I wanted to get in a debate about what the highest tax bracket should be for for the rich right should it be 36 39 we could have a debate we wouldn't take it

personally you could probably come up with some great ideas i could come up with some great ideas and at the end the audience could decide when you're debating things like is gravity real like what the am i supposed to do yeah gravity is it real bro for real that's what we're debating like i don't know where to start you understand what i bro for real that's what we're debating like i don't know where to start you understand what i'm saying yeah it's like your girlfriend uh like your girlfriend wakes up and she had a dream that you were cheating on her and then she starts hitting you when she wakes up and you're like i it was a dream i didn't actually cheat on you but she's still mad at you how do you have that discussion like you didn't even do anything wrong like she's

not even starting from a place like what do you do there that's what it feels like for me with some of these debates too far fetched yeah that was fun man we're definitely gonna have to do a part three anything you want to close off with uh no man uh listen if you guys are interested in a science-based or evidence-based look on how to build a network we use the study of evolutionary psychology and other studies uh when it comes to economics and definitely so like we we have the only evidence-based course in the world when it comes to networking when it comes to economics and definitely so like we we have the only evidence-based course in the world when it comes to networking when it comes to um leadership and when it comes to the ability to bring 100 or 200 girls to a party that's another thing we just did that last week right yeah we did

that uh we did that for the the and if you guys want actual proof it's like he didn't bring 100 girls to a party please go check my instagram right now and take a look at, uh, access or, uh, based at 12 and we brought 300 girls to, um, on the record to raise money for, uh, animal rescue. Uh, and then also we had 70 girls compete two weeks ago at the world's biggest bikini competition, which might me and my guys did all the recruiting for, and we teach you how to do that. So that's why I do my course. It's called men of action mentoring. You can check me out at Michael Sartain on Instagram. It's the easiest way to find me. Awesome. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for watching, guys. See you next time.

Appreciate it.